Remembering Summer

Perhaps it’s selective amnesia, but I cannot recall a Retreat that hasn’t been a unique and valuable therapeutic experience. However, recently I have found myself reflecting on my experience at our last summer Retreat, which for me, stands out even among the great ones of recent years.

As is often the case, we had an interesting mixture of attendees, patients from all over the world, from Australia to Japan, Europe and the USA. Ages ranged from 21 years old to patients in their 70’s, across the entire diagnostic spectrum. Primal Therapy has always attracted a broad range of individuals from all cultures and backgrounds. The unifying bond is the recognition that repressed feelings from childhood have had a major impact in their lives and that “Primal Consciousness” offers a roadmap back to themselves, a way to reconnect to the person they once were and can become again if they can learn to trust the wisdom of their deepest feelings.

In the history of human affairs, psychotherapy and Primal Therapy in particular, hold a unique position. The mission statement of Primal Therapy is to create a relationship and an environment of freedom and safety. To stimulate, articulate, feel, express, resolve and integrate our deepest feelings and losses, from past to present. To restore brain, neurological, hormonal, and behavioral balance in the service of living fuller lives, to tolerate the risks and perils of experiencing “now” through full attachment to the people in our lives. To live without pretense.

It is uniquely gratifying to witness at Retreats, experienced patients “mentor” newer patients in a very organic, informal way. No one is trying to mentor anyone, but mentoring and education via insight and kindness happens all the time. To see some of the newer patients be vulnerable and open up to intense emotion, perhaps for the first time, is powerfully dramatic and speaks to the atmosphere of safety and acceptance that is special within the Primal community. After all these years, I am still in awe of the impact of the 3-week intensive program and the Retreats, and the ways in which they can change lives. So, hats off, and a hearty “well done!” to everyone who attended.

I know very well that emotions are ephemeral; this is what makes us uniquely human. The good times never last, but thank goodness, the bad times too, ebb and flow and eventually give way to better times. Such is life. I accept this personally and professionally. Most of us have some ability to viscerally recall past feelings states. In fact, if you think about it, that’s a damn good explanation of therapy… connecting to previous feeling states . Primal people, in particular, cultivate this ability to access previous feeling states. In therapy we learn to do this, get better at this, outsmart defenses and allow grief. We call this “being open and less defended.” I’ve always thought that dialectically speaking, feeling pain should lead naturally to greater commensurate ability to feel non-painful emotions like joy, happiness, playfulness, calmness, gratitude and generosity to name just a few. I still believe this, but may have discovered a little speed bump, or hiccup that complicates our journey to mental health.

I’ve been curious for years why certain patients attend many Retreats, always do well and retain the visceral ability to recall how they felt while at the Retreat. They seem to be able to access the feeling of being at a Retreat and can retain this feeling with little difficulty. They may have a greater ability to use their Retreat experience and insight as they move forward in their lives following the Retreat. When the next Retreat comes along, time and circumstance permitting, they often choose to attend. But there is another category of patient that despite previous and profoundly important experiences and breakthroughs at Retreats, do not attend Retreats or do but very infrequently. Reactions range from disinterest to repugnance and hostility to the very idea of attending yet another Retreat.

I have often felt like the unwelcome Jehovah’s Witness knocking on doors just trying to discuss or encourage these patients to consider another Retreat. We have tried all possible ways to encourage some people including financial scholarships and often this is still insufficient to overcome their particular type of amnesia. Is it possible that some form of repression or affective amnesia prevents these patients from being able to retrieve the emotional progress of past experience, to reconnect with past experiences of well, connection? Experientially, neurologically, we are better calibrated to feeling painful emotions, so is it possible that important “positive” experiences are crowded out by grief ? I’m not sure. Perhaps it’s just run of the mill resistance to change and the general tendency to cling to the familiar. Maybe it is the obvious fear of intimacy or a resistance to dealing with the feelings triggered while navigating relationships. Regardless, it is curious that despite important, powerfully emotional and life affirming experiences, some patients are reluctant to put themselves back into that environments. Again, I want to stress that this is not due to lack of time or of financial obstacles. Curious indeed.

Life and research teach us that we learn by doing. The more we do, the better we learn. Any task, skill or capacity is best served by as much practice and repetition as possible. Play a “G” chord on the piano over and over and over, until your hand via muscle memory effortlessly forms that shape. Repeat for years and for other chords shapes and a piano player you will be.

Our nervous system can be calibrated for pain, better known as childhood, or with help, guidance, and a little luck, recalibrated to include pains counterpoints… love, joy, attachment and happiness. Sometimes the piano comes to us, but more often we have to make considerable effort. We have to decide we want to play music, buy a piano and most importantly, prioritize our lives to include sitting on that bench and making music. Over time, we become capable of new musical skills and the horizon is wide open.

Therapy itself involves a retraining of our capacities. Through access to our history we come to live in the moment and a less painful future becomes a realistic option. It seems foolish not to take advantage of one of our most potent Primal interventions – the Retreats.
The weeklong residential, total environment comes closest to matching the impact of our early lives with our families. As children, our families, our needs, our pain was 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The total immersion of the Retreat environment facilitates a depth of experience and access and intensity not available or possible anywhere I know of.

So please, next time we decide to organize a Retreat, don’t make me feel like I’m selling vacation rentals in Chernobyl! Man up or Woman up! And recalibrate your nervous system to include intimacy, fun, human connection, and emotional transparency. The ability to sleep on a mattress manufactured in 1923 is but one of the many benefits just waiting for you.

Barry

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812 Responses to Remembering Summer

  1. Margaret says:

    [set up for Margaret]

  2. thomas verzar says:

    Hi Barry

    To me the summer retreats are the highlight of my life, and have been, ever since I attended the first one, way back when. It only takes a couple of months for the ‘ good feelings ” of the retreat to slowly diminish. And then the feeling of despair, desolation, loneliness, disconnectedness starts to set in. And then the eternal wait till the next one.
    I’ve often wondered what is it about this brief experience that stands out so much for me.
    It goes back to the beginning, when I embarked on my way to start therapy. It was an anticipation of ” being together”, doing things together. “All for one and one for all.” Pardon me, this may be my communist upbringing.
    The idea of doing something together was euphoric for me.
    As it turned out, both large groups and small groups in the Institute and especially the 7 day retreats, never, ever disappointed me. If there was or is any regret at all, it is the fact that I cannot attend more than one per year. Given the 15 hour flight and the cost of airfares.
    My only hope ( whether neurotic or not) is that in time, hopefully in my lifetime, I will reach a point where my gains during a retreat and subsequent week in LA will last longer and longer, certainly longer than the couple of months now.
    Oh, and because I feel so little, I want/demand a mentor. Someone who will look after me,comfort me, be with me etc, etc. Just because I am now an old fart, it doesn’t mean I don’t feel like a baby, right?
    See you guys soon.
    What am I saying, still six months to go. I can barely wait.
    Tom
    PS I am writing this under the cover of darkness, so to speak. You guys are still asleep. And now I am going to sleep.

  3. Jo says:

    I usually drag my feet when it comes to booking the retreat, and more often than not it takes encouragement and reminders from Barry and/or Gretchen as to the benefits.
    Once I’ve made the decision to go I cant wait. So why do I always have this reluctance ‘blip’?
    It feels like I don’t want or am afraid of change. It ties in with my childhood of being hoiked out of home life into boarding school. And when it comes to going back to Europe after the retreat its hard too. In reality, away from CA I feel I’ve been coping with survival on my own, and that’s been all-encompassing. But…I have some moments when I feel so damaged that I know it makes sense to take any opportunity I can to heal in what I know to be an established supportive environment.
    Without exception in all the retreats I’ve attended, the experience is painful and joyous, fun and challenging (the mattress), always worthwhile.
    So thank you Barry, for your great post.
    Jo

  4. Jack W says:

    I wondered Barry if you might have been referring to me when you wrote, “Man up or woman up” I had always thought being deemed ‘the keeper of the crypt’ that y’all were delighted that I’d stopped attending. After all I was never the popular guy on the block.

    Joking aside I loved those 28 or so retreats that I attended and got a great deal out of them in so many, many ways. Ways that would take another epistle to describe. First off though, it was a beautiful environment to be in; sleeping accommodation and 1923 mattresses being the least of my concerns But just to be in a very feeling full environment with so much expression of feeling running rampant in and around Casa Ysidro and those glorious walks to the dining room.

    I treated them as my twice yearly holidays and what I feel it did mostly for me was allow me to be the raucous kid that I was born to be, but which daddy had a different idea of what and how I should be. It was so much fun to be silly and stupid and crazy (as well as sometime upsetting some … including at times the therapist. Ah well … who know I might one day give it another shot.

    Jack.

    • Jack, You are always welcome at Retreats and any Institute event. After all, like all of us,you are a fellow traveler on the winding road to mental health we call Primal Therapy. Granted,you may have a few more miles on the odometer than most,but that’s what makes you so special. With affection,Barry

      • jackwaddington says:

        Barry: Wow !!! “Granted, you may have a few more miles on the odometer than most,” Not sure why I deserve that compliment, but it has made my day … yeah maybe my week. What I need to do now is make sure it doesn’t go to my head and bloat it. My freind Jim thinks I get too much anyway. I’ll try to not let him read it, lest he finds even more reasons why he never wanted to get involved with Primal therapy. He puts any seeming progress I might have made to “growing old, wizened and more mellow”. I don’t contradict him, lest we get into one of those inveterate squabbles that seem to erupt in all relationships … as I see them

        But I will copy this comment out several times and paste them onto my bedroom walls … for reference.

        The retreats. Yeah I loved them all, but I did from time to time come in for some flack Got that knack of freaking others. I do have a couple of ideas for attending again, but they are by way of accompanying a couple of people (one from Serbia if he were able to fly. He suffers ‘Tourette Syndrome’ excruciating ticks); and another from someone I know in prison that I have been corresponding with for the 12 years he’s been there [for an alleged $5.00 robbery] then got sexually abused by one of the prison officers, whom he has set out to sue only to find himself perpetually harassed by other prison officers. The only support I was able to offer was to tell him to cry into his pillow for all the upset and sadness’s.he suffers, and to do the same with expressing his anger against the authorities there. Seemingly it is working for him and he’s stated that he would love to go to a Primal retreat. I have told him about several of mine.

        So !!! who knows, I might get up there once again … and no doubt to be silly childlike and raucous … all those things daddy did not permit.

        Jack

  5. You are always welcome Jack- Gretch

    • Jack W says:

      Gretchen: Nice to know. Dunno know why … maybe cos I stired the pot a little.

      Meantime, cure seems to elude me … least-ways that kind of curing that they do to herrings … called ‘kippers’ where I come from .. by smoking it. Maybe the reason is that I’m not being held close enough over the fire.

      Jack

      • Larry says:

        You seem to have changed over the 5 years I’ve known you on the blog Jack. I feel you’ve become a nicer, wiser, more sensitive person.

        • Jack W says:

          Larry: That’s real nice to read Larry. I appreciated reading your comment prior to this. Wow! the mind boggles at the unutterable neglect that is so, so often given to babies and children. It makes me wonder just how you survived … but you did.

          The only changes that I have noticed in myself is that I am now some years older and not as able to run, jump, dance and act the fool like I used to. What might be different about me is that I am better at listening than ever I used to be, and I think that is what some few others notice. Meantime, I do like compliments, but I was lucky … I had a Granny that gave so many to me … she loved me dearly. Words like “Yes my love” that ring in my ears to this very day That was such a gift.

          Jack

          • LesB says:

            Jack, I don’t know you, but I thought I’d mention the rock- in-the-shoe effect.

            Yes, some aspects of one’s pain seem to cling forever, despite endless ferling and connecting.

            Other aspects act like a rock in the shoe: While it’s there it seems the most important thing in creation to get rid of. Then 5 seconds after you take care of the problem you forget it was ever there.

            • jackwaddington says:

              Les: Yeah! whenever I have resolved a problem then for the most part I never think about it again.

              The same applies to feelings that come up, especially the really sad ones for me, once felt then apart from an occasional memory precipitated by something else, I am no longer bothered by it.

              That’s what’s so great about this therapy.

              I feel that’s natural and normal.

  6. Margaret says:

    it is good to think back of how the summer retreat was, although it took some delving in my memory.
    what came back first were other patients, and moments of constructive interaction in groups.
    not so much feelings I had, not at all at first, almost felt like ‘did I have feelings myself?’

    then I remembered how, as often happens at retreats, my own big bang happened towards the end, and not in a group, but right before and in the middle of the party of the week..

    the tone was set by feeling so lost and on my own and unable to connect despite trying, I had a huge and hard cry on my bunk before ‘the party’

    then went back up for another try and was still so much in the feeling I (wrongly) assumed everyone was ignoring me and freaked out, cursing and yelling I hated them all etc., makes me smile right now..

    specially Vicky, Tom and Marcia ‘caught’ me from falling emotionally just by being present and nonjudgmental, while still acknowledging what went on, but making me feel they were still there, close to me.

    that was valuable in a hard to describe way, to allow myself to freak out, to let it all out.
    next group gave more resolving of that feeling.

    apart from that all the unexpectedly nice conversations outside of groups, the discovering how nice some people are I never got close with before, and the immense support I got from so many persons for being without my luggage for an entire week, and for having a hard time to get around in L.A., was so healing as to open up and give my trust to people again more and more.
    being more able to be vulnerable is such an increase of strength in its own way, no masks needed anymore or much less so, feels in a way like healthy new skin coming out from under an old crust of dried up blood and filth, sensitive but delightful.

    another special group with the invaluable help of Barry, getting literally in touch with the feeling of not being touched, and crying my eyes out about it.

    Gretchen in her own way leading me into difficult areas in the trenches of my own defense systems, and she and Barry helping me to stop being ‘the good girl’ in not so healthy ways.

    it is such a fascinating journey, one’s own and the journeys of the people around us.

    next summer I might go to a sailing camp in the Netherlands instead of the retreat, just feels like a good idea without having given it too much thought really.

    it is like a retreat too, people with different disabilities venturing across their usual limits with the minimal but very reliable assistance of enthousiastic volunteers.

    it also is a week fulltime social sharing, and the one time I did a similar group sailing trip like this before, it was a grand experience, opening my eyes to the courage and emotional depths and qualities of all the persons attending.

    this time I’d like to do a sailing camp to learn how to sail my own little boat all by myself, should be nice!

    lately more and more so I dream up my own group situations, sometimes a real group setting like in therapy, sometimes just a circumstancial one, but always with some feeling content, nice or painful.
    I mean literally dream, while sleeping.
    free therapy so to say, smiley, occasionally even with a therapist being present..

    so although I’d miss the retreat if I don’t go next summer, it feels like some kind of richness I feel free to choose as any choice would be ok.

    your post touches so many truths Barry, which are hard to describe as they can only be experienced to their full extend by everyone in his or her own particular way.

    right now the hassle of the trip feels a bit too much on top of all my other stuff Ineed to deal with at this point, but if I could zap myself over and be at the retreat I would not want to miss it..

    last year come to think of it I had a lot of feelings of fear that came up, and some of them are still there, maybe they also form part of my momentary decision, but that is ok too, there is plenty I feel entitled to be afraid of.

    you are all in my heart and in my soul, whether I come or skip one summer.

    I definitely will keep coming, feels too much like home with most of you around.
    M

    • Patrick says:

      Margaret – yes I have to admit I did not read some of your posts so closely. Now I see what the ‘cat-suit’ is all about. Still it seems weird to me all this ‘medicalizing’ cats giving cats prenidzone etc. We always had cats on the farm growing up and they had a function – to keep the mouse and rat population down. I can never remember any of them ever being ‘sick’ well maybe a vomit here and there but certainly they never saw a doctor or veterinarian. We never even fed them they got all the stuff they needed around the farm including the mice and the rats.

      So I have a hard time taking all this ‘sentimentalizing’ of cats so seriously. I know is seems to loom large in Jack’s mind after all these years (I thought therapy involved ‘letting go’ of at least some things lol but not with him if anything it seems to make him ‘hold onto’ things more – another ‘ironic’ effect of primal therapy??) that I didn’t I suppose cry with him or something when his cat dies. I took it he was kind of ‘proving’ what a FEELING person he was ‘look at me I can cay’ it never seemed to make any difference that I could see. Just more acting (out)

      • Jack W says:

        “We never even fed them {the cats} they got all the stuff they needed around the farm including the mice and the rats”. Meaning that they were not pets but animals to serve your farmland … hence your inability even now, see what Margaret was getting at. “So I have a hard time taking all this ‘sentimentalizing’ of cats”

        Seemingly you have a hard time over a lot of things “I thought therapy involved ‘letting go’ of at least some things lol but not with him” NOOOOOOOO!!!!!, Primal Therapy is about bringing back into consciousness that, that one amnesia-ted against in childhood. If I remember rightly your mother threw a live cat in the burning furnace; Is it any wonder you have little sentiment for cats … as pets.

        Lastly: on the occation (just to revive what migbht apear to be your failing memory) when Jim, on returning from a trip with you, met us at the airport to take us both to our respective homes. Jim initially informed me that out pet cat had died and I cried … you laught. Not what I would have thought a sensitive person might have done especially in view of the fact that I had been on a venture with you to enhance your business.

        But then we all remember things differently ):.

        Jack

      • Jack W says:

        “We never even fed them {the cats} they got all the stuff they needed around the farm including the mice and the rats”. Meaning that they were not pets but animals to serve your farmland … hence your inability even now, see what Margaret was getting at. “So I have a hard time taking all this ‘sentimentalizing’ of cats”

        Seemingly you have a hard time over a lot of things “I thought therapy involved ‘letting go’ of at least some things lol but not with him” NOOOOOOOO!!!!!, Primal Therapy is about bringing back into consciousness that, that one amnesia-ted against in childhood. If I remember rightly your mother threw a live cat in the burning furnace; Is it any wonder you have little sentiment for cats … as pets.

        Lastly: on the occation (just to revive what migbht apear to be your failing memory) when Jim, on returning from a trip with you, met us at the airport to take us both to our respective homes. Jim initially informed me that out pet cat had died and I cried … you laught. Not what I would have thought a sensitive person might have done especially in view of the fact that I had been on a venture with you to enhance your business.

        But then we all remember things differently ): .

        Jack

    • Anonymous says:

      Dear Margot, I understand your concerns but I really do hope you can find the time and energy to attend this summer. With Affection,Barry

  7. thomas verzar says:

    Hi
    Last night I had a lengthy talk with my last living old relative, 91, Edit, whom I call my aunty, in Paris. She is/was my dad’s first cousin. They grew up together.
    During the conversation she touched upon the reason why we immigrated to Australia. Remember, I was 13 when we left Romania. It turns out that it was a decision based on how far can we leave worn torn Europe, where there is peace, never a war. And I thought it was based on the fact that my grandmother would agree to join us upon retirement from Budapest, if we were to come here, as her best friend of the 40 years came here to join her older boy after the Hungarian uprising in 1956.
    It left me perplexed. My dad had an older brother, back then, who immigrated to USA in 1951.
    My aunty told me that although the two brothers loved each other, my uncle was impossible, and within 15 minutes of being together, they would start fighting/arguing. So that sealed our fate, my fate.
    Question: didn’t my father ever make a decision based on sentiment, emotions? Did it ever cross his mind that i would’ve been able to grow up with my first cousin in Long Island, New York?
    Then we went on talking about my godmother, whom I always liked/loved.. She told me that I was christened when I was born. I always knew that my godmother was Greek-Orthodox,as her father was a priest, But I never put two and two together. I nearly dropped the phone out of my hand. What do you mean, I asked. She explained that a lot of Jewish parents registered their sons as Christians after the war. So now I understand why I was circumcised at the age of 16, after our arrival to OZ.
    On top of all the above, as that is only the introduction, my mother’s passing memorial is on at the end of January. It is a custom for a deceased to be remembered on or about the date of her passing and to give a small donation. Which I did a couple of days ago. I’ve already decided to go to the Synagogue on the 23rd January. I am not religious, never been, never will be. But for some unknown reason, I want to hear about my mum.
    And today, while with the Grumpies, I brought up the subject of remembrance.
    As I walked away from them towards the car, I started to cry. I WANT MY MUM. That’s all I ever think about.
    I WANT YOU!!!!!!!! I WANT YOU TO HOLD ME!!!!!!!!!!
    I WANT YOU!!!!!!!!! I WANT YOU TO HOLD ME!!!!!!!!!!
    I WANT YOU!!!!!!!!!!! I WANT YOU TO HOLD ME!!!!!!!!!!
    I DO NOT UNDERSTAND!!!!!!! WHY CAN”T I HAVE YOU??????????????
    Nothing is ever IT in my life. I don’t feel, ever, that I am living my life. Which is such a paradox, as I do have a full life, so to speak.
    I am afraid to start anything new, as I do not know whether I am acting out again. Wanting this ultimate connection. Closeness.
    Somehow, at the retreat, I do feel that I am living my life. I feel normal after a couple of days.
    I don’t get it.
    Tom

  8. Margaret says:

    Tom, lately you make me feel more and more clearly what exactly you are feeling and how sad and hard it must be to have to go through life with such a huge immense unmet need right in your face all the time.

    still if I may say, you sound different in a very positive way, much more clear and direct about it, it was also nice to hear how you enjoy the retreats, despite all the pain they also bring up.

    you are inspiring.

    Patrick, I can only say all what you wrote seems to say a lot about how emotionally crippled you are, even unable to understand how someone else can have a strong and loving bond with a pet and grieve about it.
    that’s not good at all, but you seem stuck in wanting to stay that way, which makes it even more sad.

    Jack, I’d be shocked too if what you describe would have happened to me, it is so out of my nattural way of feeling and thinking it is even hard to imagine, someone laughing at such a moment, I could imagine it if it would be a defense to cover up one’s own pain, but sadly enough in this case I wonder if there was any feeling at all.

    M

    • Jack W says:

      Margaret: At the time I was so upset about our cat dying (we simply called her “Puss”), that I didn’t notice Patrick laughing. It was Jim that noticed it. It was many months later that Jim told me about it. My reaction was, like you, to register his insensitivity to the situation. I know not why, and I have little interest in attmpting to ananyse why he laughed. Some people laugh as a means of defending against their pain being triggered, which is something I and my siblings did. We’d make a joke about it rather than face the feeling that was triggered at the time. My oldest sister still does it. I don’t put her down for it … she was never interested in Primal Therapy though I did give a copy of “The Primal Scream” to each of them. If for no better reason than to let them know what I was into, and why I came to the U.S.

      Jack

    • Larry says:

      Tom, I’m with Margaret. You are expressing more clearly how you feel and why, and it becomes easier to empathise with you. Soon after I first met you a few years ago I remember telling you that you were a mystery to me who I wanted to understand. I understand you a lot better now, thanks.

    • Patrick says:

      Margaret – you take ‘stories’ that are told out of context and that happened (if they even did) like 20 years ago and they are ‘stories’ with it seems the sole purpose of making Jack look GOOD and me look BAD. And if I understand anything about therapy I think ‘letting things go’ is an important aspect………….but NOT for him NO NO NO NO NO………….hold on forever and constantly ‘prove’ how excellent he is and how bad I am…………….can you imagine some ‘story’ from 20 years ago where you are STILL hung up on being ‘right’………….to me this is incredibly crazy and an unfortunate effect of PT on ‘some’ people………….it has to do with bolstering themselves constantly and endlessly (all the while ‘retreating’ at retreats but NEVER actually retreating from anything of importance……………….and Margaret you are foolish enough to take this ‘story’ and make a ‘judgement’ about it. You should be a little ‘smarter’ than that but you are not it seems………….

      This is Guantanamo Bay type justice using ‘evidence’ from a proven ‘spinner’ any your silly ‘jusgements’ forget for a moment condos in Chernobyl though that is an interesting and arresting image all by itself.

  9. Larry says:

    I’d been in primal therapy for 27 years before I felt ready to attend my first retreat. Even then it took coaxing and encouragement from Gretchen to help get me there. The prospect of stepping out of hiding and risking being seen for who I am, or of hiding and making myself left out at a retreat, was frightening. It felt far safer to stay at home in my lonely routine and rut. But I knew if I stayed home, I’d still be in that rut today, and it wasn’t a good place to be. A quote from Raymond Chandler really hits home for me: “There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself”. I had to get out of it or the rest of my life would be miserable or worse, and probably short. Despite a lifetime of running up against the steely cold grip of fear I needed to believe I could break out of it, and the experience of this therapy gave me faith that I might, and because I was afraid of them, I knew retreats would help.

    At my first retreat I hunkered down to protect myself. All the time I was on edge expecting someone would blow up and yell at me. It didn’t happen. In a final group, a fellow sitting next to me asked whether he’d given me any reason to be wary of him. I said no, but I’m bracing myself for the future when he might. That’s when I realized how fearful I must be that I’m shielding myself against something unpredictable that might never happen. When all I got at that retreat was support and warmth, that’s when I began to more appreciate how fearful and distrustful I felt of people and life, and I wondered why.

    The retreat experience always follows me home. The retreat helps me appreciate how rich life could be if I make the effort, and helps me see what I need to do to overcome my self-limitations and make my life better. Feelings and insights are awakened at a retreat and they come pouring out in the months that follow as I work on the growing of my life.

    The feelings at my first few retreats were about grief and how life let me down real bad. Then at later retreats they were about grief and insights about my childhood and why I was so afraid all my life. While in LA for retreats I sometimes baby sat a dog for friends I stayed with. In my third summer retreat, their lives happened to be in turmoil. The turmoil inevitably erupted at the retreat in group, and my caring/neglect of the dog became embroiled in it. That led me to remembering and talking about my experience of growing up with the close companionship of dogs, and remembering and contemplating in a new light my father’s cold uncaring attitude after he accidentally ran over and killed the small dog that I was for the first time in my life becoming attached to when I was an early lost and troubled teenager. In remembering and telling, my awareness and appreciation started to grow for how very little emotional caring I must have gotten from him. It grows deeper and fuller with feeling after feeling, with my every fearful attempt to push myself further into life.

    In my fourth and fifth years of summer retreats, I decided to walk into the fire and I let it be known that my birthday was during the retreat. It was very disturbing how uncomfortable I felt with the attention of friends at a retreat on my birthday, and how much I wanted to run away and not deal with it. It opened me up to appreciating how there was none of the attention I needed while growing up.

    The feelings and insights from retreats keep draining out of me, deeper and deeper. I’m so thankful they do, because the harboured feelings are poisons that kill me. I’m alone but not quite so afraid of it anymore because I’m grown up and can do something about it now. I was alone as a child, and to explain it came to believe there was something wrong with me, that I was worthless. Now as an adult I’m appreciating, slowly, that there is nothing wrong with me, but that my childhood aloneness is forever my cross to bear because I had the misfortune to be borne to people unable to be what parents need to be for the good of me.

    It’s important now to start to be able to feel and know I’m not worthless. I can look back and see how the progression of opening up at retreat after retreat has helped me to get here, and I’m so so glad for it. A friend I see maybe twice a year told me at Christmas how noticeable is the confidence in my walk, my voice, and my attitude. I need that confidence and more to deal with the challenges awaiting me in the years ahead as I transition into retirement and a different life, one I hope with more of the kind of people and experiences in it that I want. I’m so glad I’m not the person I was 5 years ago, almost too afraid to go to my first retreat, never mind too afraid to confront life changes that I’m dealing with now.

    I’m so thankful for the retreats.

    And I’m thankful that this summer the retreat doesn’t happen on my birthday.

  10. Larry says:

    Thanks for the post Barry. It is a good and inspiring read, long awaited.

  11. “And I’m thankful that this summer the retreat doesn’t happen on my birthday.” lol! G.

  12. Phil says:

    I went to the last two Summer Retreats and they were both tremendous experiences forme and exactly what I need to do and I hope I will be able to attend some more of them.I found everyone to be helpful and supportive and the whole thing so very well organized.In my history, group events like this are something that I would avoid because I would experiencea lot of anxiety. Groups certainly magnify feelings for me. It’s possible to get a lot of attentionor feel left out, and that’s why it can be so triggering. I think in the past all my unfulfilled needsmade it very difficult or impossible to speak up. Instead I would stay isolated even while in agroup or avoid it altogether.Phil

    Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 08:50:23 +0000 To: phiban@msn.com

  13. Margaret says:

    Patrick,
    Jack’s story does not change much about what I said, whether it is entirely true or completely false.

    after all it comes down to the same issue that you have a hard time with ‘sentimentalizing’ and ‘medicalizing’ cats.

    so when my cat gets a severe infection of a wound on her skin I should just sit back and watch it getting worse and worse to the point of having her die in a terrible way with a massive and complete infection of her whole system?

    I actually feel how taking good care of her, although she sometimes gives a few little protest meows when I pick her up to unbutton her for the litter tray, actually strngthens the bond and trust as she cooperates amazingly well and allows me without any struggle to treat her in every way . cream, antiseptic tissue, cleaning the wound, doing immediately what she needs to do in litter tray, and remaining patient when I button her back up.

    this has never been an easy cat, she is strongminded but now she is sweet and seems very much to appreciate I help her in getting better , in making the hurt and itching stop.

    the wound is slowly healing, and she is gaining energy every day.

    you might not understand or ridicule or disapprove, but to me it is heartwarming and makes me smile how after she did her thing in the tray, and I caress and praise her, she very clearly lightens up and is very pleased with the sounds of approval .

    oh, I guess I am wasting my time.

    on the other hand, your dad did love his cattle too, didn’t he, despite them also being functional, he had very warm feelings for each cow, is what you told us in the past.

    you seem to shum all kinds of closeness and that really is your loss.
    I am glad, very glad I can feel so much love for cats, dogs, horses, actually all living creatures including human beings, although some of those make it hard.

    all I can hope for you is you find a way to break down your defense of eternal criticism and disapproval and aggression and discover ways to become close.
    I know you can be gentle and nice as well, hope you let that side take over some more eventually.
    M

    • Patrick says:

      Margaret – I appreciate your reply. I think in some ways we are talking about different things.When I talk about ‘medicalizing’ and ‘sentimentalizing’ cats or whatever I have a kind of similar attitude to humans also. What I am referring is to the ‘medical’ system and also the ‘psychological’ profession. Where symptoms are mostly all that is seen and ’causes’ go un-addressed.

      Also I am not trying when I talk about the way we grew up on the farm that it was all ‘right’ it was not, there was for sure a disregard for animals and people/children too. But there are two sides to every coin and living in nature like that or at least a lot closer to nature than in modern life well to me in many ways it was better. My mom told me her dad who I knew as a little boy NEVER in his life went to or saw a doctor he died around 80 years old one day walking back to the house after climbing a bit of a hill he leaned on the fence and well just died. They didn’t know what happened think his heart just stopped.

      I contrast this with the way we live now, the majority of people are it seems on some kind of drug and we are not getting healthier. Either physically or psychologically. I know here the word ‘primal’ is tossed around I like to think of ‘primal’ as as more of a complete state not just some ‘narrow’ specialty like ‘psychology’. But to get back to your cat it seems to me probably ‘the cure is worse than the disease’ as is the case with an awful lot of modern interventions. One time my dad said that to me as a child ‘the cure is worse than the disease’ and I remember thinking how ‘profound’ that was………….I STILL think it explains a whole lot………………..

  14. Patrick says:

    Margaret kind of continuing on the ‘two sides to every coin’ here is a quote that I came across it so happens by an Irish scientist called John Bell who was trying to get to grips with the modern ‘debate’ about who was ‘right’ Niels Bohr the proponent of ‘quantum theory’ or Albert Einstein who tried to use ‘relativity’ to explain everything (or at least a lot of things)

    “Niels Bohr was inconsistent, unclear and willfully obscure and right

    Albert Einstein was consistent, clear, down to earth and wrong”

    • Jack W says:

      Since when did you have a PhD in rocket science???? Still …. into the righteousness v wrongteousness. It seems you always need to write another comment to make clear your last comment … then yet another to make that last one more clear. It’s all your opinion/feeling/contention … whatever. Most people get where you’re at, I gather, on the first sentence.

      You’ve made your sentiments clear about cat’s, the medical profession, Jews, Israel, the US, the UK, Muslims and dictators very clear. What you don’t get into, I feel, is where all these sentiments come from … other than the top of ‘your head’..

      Jack.

      • Patrick says:

        I guess I should not have ‘ideas’ about anything a mere Irish ‘bog-trotter’ lol……………….ideas and such should all be left to you where you can spout your stuff about ‘abolishing money’ and other ‘wisdom’ like that or to your guru Art Janov……………..my take is both of you have had the floor for quite a long time and the results from everything I have seen and see here every day are meager indeed………….just my FEELING. Does that sound ok, it that an ‘acceptable’ way to talk, does it pass muster with the Keeper of the Crypt or maybe even the Crypt itself

  15. Patrick says:

    I am thinking about commenting about Barry’s blogpost but I don’t wnat to be always a spoil sport though I do feel he tossed up a big grapefruit (baseball terminology)……………

  16. Patrick says:

    The news is full of course about the events in France. Here is a small bit about it by the great Diana Johnstone which I thought was interesting

    “Charlie Hebdo was not in reality a model of freedom of speech. It has ended up, like so much of the “human rights left”, defending U.S.-led wars against “dictators”.

    In 2002, Philippe Val, who was editor in chief at the time, denounced Noam Chomsky for anti-Americanism and excessive criticism of Israel and of mainstream media. In 2008, another of Charlie Hebdo’s famous cartoonists, Siné, wrote a short note citing a news item that President Sarkozy’s son Jean was going to convert to Judaism to marry the heiress of a prosperous appliance chain. Siné added the comment, “He’ll go far, this lad.” For that, Siné was fired by Philippe Val on grounds of “anti-Semitism”.

    So it’s fine to ‘mock’ Muslims (what someone called ‘afflicting the afflicted’ but to mock Jews well no that’s NOT allowed that’s ‘anti-semitism’

  17. “Somehow, at the retreat, I do feel that I am living my life. I feel normal after a couple of days.
    I don’t get it.
    Tom” Possibly that is when you feel you can be yourself – Gretch

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Gretchen
      You never miss a beat.
      I’ve been thinking non-stop, why is it so different for me at the retreats, groups, as opposed to being away from them.
      Yes, it is the fact that “I can be myself”. I do not have to hide the fact how miserable I feel ALL THE TIME. I can HURT openly. I don’t have to be a ” big boy”. It’s OK to want my mum.
      Yesterday I went to visit my client, the 91 year old Holocaust survivor, let’s call her Maria. I was supposed to go and see her on Tuesday, but at the last minute she cancelled, saying she is not feeling well, it’s her heart. As it turned out, It was her husband’s passing away anniversary. He fell ill the day before, exactly 41 years ago, and died the day after. So maybe it wasn’t that Maria was ill, more that she was grieving her husband. She never remarried. Her husband died of a heart attack, then. Her son died of a heart attack last year, a doctor. She also had a heart attack some time ago. And a stroke. But is she a fighter, or what?
      After each visit, I update my supervisor, and the volunteer supervisor. I’ve been concerned that perhaps Maria isn’t getting the care she needs,
      Yesterday I approached the nursing home manager and talked to her about Maria. She informed me that she, and my client’s doctor, are well aware of her condition, and she is well supervised. Some days she is doing fine, other days she would like to stay in bed. They encourage her to get out of bed, shower each day, and even if she is feeling bad, at least lie on top of her bed, not in it. Maria is liked, adored by the staff in the nursing home.
      And then she dropped the bomb.
      ” You know Tom, every time Maria goes down, due to her age and medical condition, she doesn’t climb back up where she was before. We make sure she doesn’t suffer. But at some time in the future she is facing the inevitable.’
      Oh no. Maria, you are not going to die too? Oh no. I can’t stand it.
      First my grandma, then my dad, then my mum, and now you? I CANNOT STAND IT.
      Although I only saw you the last couple of months, I got attached to you. You have an incredible heart. Please don’t go. Please don’t hurt me.”
      This woman can hardly move, but she managed somehow to get me a New Year present.
      The last time I got a present was from my second client, the only blue colour worker I met in these circumstances. Pugnaciously he stood in front of me, in my face, and asked ” what are you going to do for me?” And after I explained that I will be there for him when he feels depressed, angry, suicidal, hopeless and not run away from him, he broke down and cried.
      I miss him. Now I’m crying.
      All these people get to me.
      Life is so sad. Or is it just me?
      Tom

  18. Patrick says:

    Partly to just piss off Jack (well actually no that’s a ‘joke’ but it is interesting where so many interests are supposed to be verboten, can’t talk about politics, can’t talk about science can’t talk about the weather only FEELINGS and people don’t really do that anyway. Or they do in their way just as I do in my way but we don’t all have to be the same. And I find this talk only about FEELINGS stifling and silly Our feelings are in everything we do and say whether we want to or not. Anyway I found this video very interesting about the situation in France and I think it is worth watching all the way to the end where they get into ‘anti-semitism’ as it’s called and stuff surrounding that. What is amazing to me is this constant talk about ”free expression’ so long as you don’t mention the elephant in the room…………..Israel’s/Jews almost total control of what is said about itself or any criticism is well ‘anti-semitism’………….

    http://www.democracynow.org/2015/1/8/comics_legend_art_spiegelman_scholar_tariq

  19. Patrick says:

    can’t talk about peace
    can’t talk about war
    can’t talk about truth
    can’t talk about lies
    only FEELINGS
    feelings, feelings is what it is

    can’t talk about you
    can’t talk about me
    can’t talk about science
    can’t talk about religion
    only FEELINGS
    feelings,feelings is what it is

    hell can’t even talk about the weather
    only FEELINGS
    feelings feelings is what it is

    Imagine this sung with a snarly Bob Dylan type voice…………..

  20. Margaret says:

    wow Tom, what you answered to that man really really touched me deeply, that is such an incredible thing you said to him.

    I think I’d break down and cry as well, in fact I have tears in my eyes right now.

    you told him he could be himself with you, no matter what and that you would not turn your back on him, such a great gift.
    wish I was your client..
    M

  21. Margaret says:

    [[[___ apologies! I have just found this comment of Margaret’s but it is from yesterday! I am posting it late. I hope no inconvenience caused!__Fiona__]]]

    Patrick,
    ‘the cure is worse than the disease’ makes no sense at all in this case.
    we have sought for the origin of the allergy without finding it, and her regular cure worked fine for ten years.

    now she did scratch and it got infected, an acute reality that needed to be looked after as it was quickly deteriorating.
    and well, so far the cure is working fine thank heavens and medical science.

    you remind me of my mother, always knowing better and always wanting to have the last word.

    have you ever heard of the golden middle way, combining a healty life with what is useful in modern science?

    your theories seem to serve mostly the ongoing need for controversy.

    it surely makes me wary and makes me want to take more and more distance, and I am sure that must happen to most people that know you.

    it is a shame as it is your behaviour and act out that causes this, not an intrinsic quality that could never change, if you’d want to look at it and work on it.
    those things don’t change by themselves and will keep you isolated and more and more cynical and bitter unless you really would make some drastic changes, which I don’t expect you will, sadly enough.

    can’t you see you are spoiling your own life with all this animosity and negativity Patrick?
    all I ever hear you talk about is about what is not good and not right, never about positive feelings or qualities, with the exception of the right eating habits and cold water etc.

    but hey, I give up, sorry, could not resist the urge to try to make you see despite knowing better.

    in amy case, I hope you will refrain from criticizing me as it does hurt and upsets me, not too badly but still, also when it is due to the fact you have not read my comments properly and fabricate your own interpretation and turn me into a mindless beverly Hills cat fashion babe.

    M

    • Patrick says:

      Margaret – that’s pretty funny “a mindless beverly Hills cat fashion babe” that sounds fun no? But in all seriousness don’t ‘worry’ about me I have quite a few very good loyal and long time friends who don’t just talk a good game ………………see just as you might ‘worry’ about me I might ‘worry’ about you………….but I suppose each of our jobs is to take care of ourselves. I mean I appreciate you seem to ‘care’ but well I really am ok, no need to worry………….just because I have a relativity open and inquisitive mind is no reason to ‘worry’ I would worry more about people who seem so caught up in a ‘belief system” they seem to have largely stopped noticing the world around them and ‘shoe horn’ everything into that ‘belief system’ and the results are predictable and not at all impressive……………

  22. Anonymous says:

    Today, after not connecting for years, I felt compelled to check in. Hello Tom, Vicki, Jack, Margaret… all of you were a part of my healing and I remember you.

  23. ted says:

    Oops, hit the reply button. This is Ted. At the retreats, I always waited and waited for something to happen, and then the retreat was over. It wasn’t until Barry told me that he would be my advocate and that he had my back that I was able to forge a life for myself. Just that simple gesture opened the flood gates for me, and I thank you Barry, although I have never actually taken you up on your offer, I know you are there. Jack,Vicki and Tom, you were all so gracious with me and were a huge part of my healing. Don’t ever think that you don’t matter or that you don’t impact others.

    • Jack W says:

      Hey! Ted: Great to get some words from and about you. Can’t remember the last retreat that you were at. There’s been so many for me and I’m not good at dates and the short term memory is not what it used to be; not that it was ever brilliant anyway. Just that getting something from someone, Barry in your instance, that we should have all had, in those very early, early days when there was not words …. just feelings and the only vocal expressions were crying, laughing or yelling blue murder … cos we weren’t getting what we needed.

      It’s also good to know that once the process gets started that it has a momentum all of it own; as it seems from what you are saying.

      Meantime, even if you don’t feel like writing anything to the blog just keep reading it. It’s miraculous just how we can get triggered from just reading how others are reacting … and it doesn’t all have to be all ‘lovey dovey’ … though that can be nice.

      Take care anyway and the very best … feeling wise that is.

      Jack

      • ted says:

        And I still remember your famous tag line when I asked, “What is primal therapy about?” to which you replied… “To feel what feeling feelings feels like”. My last retreat was 2001.

        • Jack W says:

          Hey Ted: You put me to shame … remembering what I said … when I can’;t even remember you asking.

          2001 !!!!!! Wasn’t that when Noah picked up all those animals … for pets and sailed around the world and discovered A Merica ..;. or some such event.

          2001 just seems like such a long time ago. Am I that old ?????????.

          Yeah !! I still use that old tag line … cos I haven’t invented another one since. But I keep on trucking.

          Jack.

    • Leslie says:

      Ted – is that you Ted? Hope you are that Ted! I remember you and our walks, talks and laughs at the Retreats – and hope you are well!

      I have been not been on the blog lately, but certainly wanted to comment on how incredible the Retreats have been for me, and for B. & I when we have had the amazing experience of attending together. It is truly remarkable – as Barry so aptly explained.

      I think of them as a genuine All Inclusive with depth & meaning. It is that opportunity of being with people I have known for years and new people that I get to know that is so rewarding – along with the consistently astute and caring therapy provided. However, the true comfort of knowing that just being myself is the only requirement there is what I cherish the very most!
      L.

      • Anonymous says:

        Yes Leslie, this is me, Ted. Good to hear you. I think of you now and then and wonder how you are doing. You were there for me in some of my deepest grief and pain and I too enjoyed the many hours of walks and talks. Say hello to Barry for me.

      • ted says:

        Yes Leslie, this is me, the real Ted you knew so well back in the day. I think of you and Barry once in awhile and wonder how you’re doing. I too remember the retreats we shared and the many hours of walking a talking. You were there for me in some of my deepest grief and pain, and this I will never forget. Say hello to Barry for me.

        • Leslie says:

          Well that is fabulous – to have you here!! I can’t wait to hear all about you, your family etc.
          Our sons are now 25 & 22!! Your calm words of wisdom came back to me – as our family survived the late teen years 🙂
          We still have our old e-mail &/or details here about you are most welcome!
          ox

    • Larry says:

      I’ve never met you, Ted, but the way people are reacting to you, I hope I do one day.

    • Dear Ted, How nice to kind of hear from you. Hope you are reasonably well and enjoying life. Would love an update sometime about your current life.Either on the blog or contact me personally anytime at The Institute. Best wishes,Barry

      • ted says:

        Well Barry, Mom is dying. She doesn’t recognize us anymore and will be heading into hospice any day now. You know, I feel sad. This woman, who never touched me and left me lying in the crib, never fed me, never picked me up when I cried, and I was still in diapers and could not walk at two years old. She would come and stuff a bottle in my mouth with that angry look of indignation on her face, and I finally stopped crying as it was no use. The final straw was when she discarded me like so much trash and sent me off to boarding school, which as joanna knows well, is just like prison. The only difference is there is no indictment, no jury of my peers, no day in court. The abuse, the raping, the beatings, and all the utter violations I endured at the hands of those who were supposed to protect me and be the adults to mentor me, and yet, they were worse abusers than my peers who also took advantage at every opportunity. All my life I have waited for “something” to happen, and you know what? Nothing ever happens unless I make it happen. And I have.
        I have a stable life, a decent job and a place to live that I have been at the same place now for 7 years. I have a good boundary and life is no longer harsh and dramatic. I’m well grounded and I sleep well and the anxiety is gone, so I guess therapy helped me in that regard. Yes, I get lonely and I still isolate some, and little Ted still wants to be held and fed and cuddled, and yet I am good to him. He gets to sleep with Goldie and Queenie, my two stuffed animals when he feels scared, and I don’t let him run things as much as I used to.
        Like I said Barry, my turning point in therapy came the day you stepped up and agreed to be my advocate, to watch over me and “have my back” with the admonition to “call if you need me”. Although I have never taken you up on this offer, it gave me strength and it gave me the courage to go after life and to embrace it. No, I’m not in a deep passionate relationship as the last one failed due to my neediness. Yes, my core first line exudes neediness, and this core cellular response is tough to mitigate,
        I do experience joy, mostly with my two daughters and their husbands which are great guys, and my two grandsons. Yes, my daughters did well and have great lives, so I guess I did something right.
        Tom and Leslie and Joanna and others were a huge part of my healing, and I’m glad to hear from them. Don’t ever think that you don’t affect others cause you affected me. Many thanks to all of you.

        • Leslie says:

          So good to hear how well you are doing now Ted. Your growing up life was horrifying…

          2 grandsons !! How exciting for you and for them to have you!
          Hope you stay in touch.
          ox L.

        • Vicki says:

          Ted! I have thought of you over the years of no-idea-how-you’re-doing, wondering what’s happened, as I missed not having our once-more-regular friendship. I am glad you have posted quite a bit here now, I feel I am “catching up” with you a little. Would love to see you again sometime, as I’m sure others would, if you’re ever up for it. And sorry you are losing your mom, anyway, such as she was.

  24. Jo says:

    Ted, It’s so good to hear from you! You had a big impact on me, and which lead me on the path to becoming more real.
    Joanna

  25. miguel says:

    Hi Barry and all of you.

    Barry y totally agree with you about the retreats. Without any doubs the retreats at Santa Barbara offers a unique mileu, frame. to feel your feelings and learn about others and relationships.

    Margaret. I can understand you and what you you are going with your cat. I have a cat, and a few months ago she was run over by a car. It was very sad andf pathetic to see her that she could not walk, almost crawling. And bleeding a little. I was very worried and took all the care i could. I took her to the vet and he told me that her hip bones were broken but that cats have a special ability to heal them and told me to put her some antiinflamatorios injections. Little by little the animal begun to recover, in her hability to heal and natural wisdom. Now my cat trust very much me and I can play with her and she does not give me the occasional scratches that gave me before playing. And she has learned now not go out to the street, thought that the street is not a safe place for her by cars. She could go if she wanted, is not castrated. My cat is really teaching me what unconditional love and trusting really means.
    Miguel

  26. Margaret says:

    hi TEd!!
    I have a problem, I’ve known two Teds and they both were roomates, so hard to ask a question that distinguishes without touching private information here..

    in any case I liked both Teds so that’s cool.

    are you the Ted I went shopping for groceries with?

    so good to hear from you here, hope you hang around!

    on another note, I just heard the family members of the different terrorists in France took distance from what their relatives did and condemned it.

    specially a brother was very powerful and touching in what he said and how he said it, he was at the same time so vulnerable and so very courageous.
    he said something about pure craziness being something that goes beyond any religion, be it Judaism, islam or christianity.
    I find this such a strong and very moving statement specially when you hear him say it, and so powerful as it must reach everyone listening, and hopefully shift the balance to the good side for those who are hesitating between sanity or going with that kind of craziness.

    in a way all of this has seemingly a very bonding effect as well, all religions are working together here now, and different political parties march up side by side in protest , all different kinds of eople find each other in condemning extremism of any kind.

    watching the news lately made me tearful, at first about the craziness and pain, and now also because of the force of sanity standing up and today getting millions of people out on the streets.
    Margaret

  27. Margaret says:

    hi Miguel,
    so nice to hear your cat got better!
    I am a bit worried about mine, as she has just scrtched open the one part that sticks out of her collar, as of course it tends to itch while healing.
    she opened it up again so all I could do is put antiseptic balm on it and pull the collar over it for now..
    was washing her spare suit at 3 a.m. this morning after an accident on the litter tray..
    tomorrow she has to go back to the vet for control, I fear the nursing will still have to continue for a while..

    pretty exhausting for the both of us, but it really feels like the only right thing to do.

    she eats well and is ok otherwise, so that is a good sign.

    thanks for your comment, hope you and your daughter and cat and girlfriend are ok!
    M

  28. Margaret says:

    ha, just found something to give myself some more peace of mind.
    I cut the hind claws of my cat from razor sharp and long to shorten and not that sharp.
    she allowed me to do so amazingly well, and now at least I feel the tiniest bit of scratching won’t slice her open anymore..

    she is nibbling her crunchis right now so all is well for the moment..

    yeah, right. taking care and caring, and it does indeed seem to create more trust, isn’t it, Miguel?
    it is good to be able to make her feel safe and looked after as well as possible..

    sigh, let’s hope for the best..
    M

  29. Margaret says:

    this may sound ridiculous to some of you, Patrick maybe, but I just found out a back massage did wonders in relaxing the cat from tense to loudly purring.

    her catsuit of course is a bit tight so a good gentle rub must have felt like just what she needed..

    it is nice to bond and find out there is so immensely much we have in common, humans, animals, comes down to so much of the same feeling wise.

    it is good to just try out these things spontaneously and then have so much effect all of a sudden..
    will keep doing so more often.
    M

  30. Margaret says:

    haah, the backrub made the kittycat go from scratching and tension mode into sleeping mode.
    and me from tension and worrying mode into more relaxing again

    guess I am so aft
    raid of losing her, or worse even, of having her going through fear and hurt first, but hey, no gloomy thoughts for now, she is happily napping with a full belly and fell asleep while purring, so have to go with the moment.

    would feel so terribly sad when losing her, can’t even think of it right now.

    am so scared, worried and sad already just by the thought of it being due to happen some time in the future in any case.

    she is almost ten now, my former cats luckily got almost twenty, so let’s hope for the best.

    M

  31. Larry says:

    Until I was a teenager I went to a one room school house, one teacher, eight grades, 32 kids, mostly from farming families and from families of transient workers. My grade ranged from 3 to 5 kids, depending on whether families moved in or out of the neighbourhood each school year. Three of us were a constant for all 8 years, and so my two classmates, I’ll call them Jay and Leila, were a big part of the fabric of my early growing up. Jay’s family lived less than a mile away, and as we grew up I’d see him sometimes outside of school. Leila’s family lived five miles away, an incomprehensible distance when we were small, and I only saw her during school. The farm families were established and economically thriving. Jay’s family was poor. His father worked as a janitor in the big City. Leila’s father was a carpenter. I think they rented their home from a farmer.

    I wrote before on the blog how shy I was in school. I didn’t become conscious of it until grade 8. Leila and Jay had more life. They made things happen. It was in grade 8 when I realized they let me tag along and I followed, never led. Jay died a year or so ago, and I wrote about it on the blog.

    In grade 6 I started to fancy Leila. I wanted her attention. I wanted her to like me. I wanted to be her boyfriend. On summer holiday, when I was busy doing chores for Dad, sometimes alone all day in the field mowing or ploughing, I’d dream of Leila, and how impressed and proud she be of me if she was with me and knew the man’s work I was doing. I imagined how nice it would feel to be with her. She became my first love. For three years, from grade 6 through grade 8, it was so pure and strong that I sometimes think of it still. But I was never able to tell her. Back then each year I hoped that by the next year I would grow up and be confident to be her boyfriend. I wondered if it would finally happen when I was a teenager, when we went to grade 9 in the big high school of 400 kids 1 ½ hour bus ride away.

    Leila’s father was a good man. His obituary says he and his wife were married for 60 years. He was born in Holland, and during WWII built hiding places in homes for Dutch Jewish citizens. He was interred in a slave labour camp in Germany for 1 year. Leila was the youngest of four children. I remember her as a well balanced, grounded, full of life fun loving kid, and pretty. In my solitude, in my imagination, she filled my life through the last years of grade school.

    My Dad was known for working hard, to the exclusion of anything else, and for being fair and decent. He was never part of a community. He had no social life.

    High school was a shock to me that I never recovered from. I never grew up. I never became confident. I never fit in. I never had friends. All the way through, I had no social life. I don’t know how I hung on and stayed sane. At the end of grade school, Leila’s family moved away to Saskatchewan. My fantasy of marrying her was dashed and I hadn’t told her I loved her. I hoped we would get in touch someday, somehow, but that hope faded as high school and life ground me down into stunned realization that I had a big, big, big problem in not being able to grow up and take on life the way the other kids were.

    Looking back on those years, I’m glad she moved away. It would have been unbearable to have her in my high school, well liked, pretty, and to see different guys dating her while I kept to myself, self-isolated, uninvolved, hidden in my books and homework, all the 4 years of high school unable to live life normally.

    After high school somehow I made it through 4 years of university, but after graduation I broke. I had no friends. I didn’t know how to be in the real world. I could barely keep the lid on the emotional turmoil and fear seething through my being. Then I read the Primal Scream. 42 years later I’m still working on becoming more confident in life.

    This weekend I discovered Leila on Facebook. Through Facebook I have a glimpse of what her life has been. She lives near the town in Saskatchewan that her family moved to way back then. After high school, she worked as a secretary in the high school. She retired 4 years ago. Way back she married a local boy. They have a farm, raised children, and have grandchildren. At the age of 20 she bought a camera. Her interest in photography was a mainstay in her life. I bought my camera when I was 21. She photographs the beauty of nature. Her photos are good. They show a photographer of feeling and sensitivity. They are the kind of photographs I strive to take. She exhibits hers. I don’t. She has 300 Facebook friends. I feel she is a person of influence that spreads beyond her small prairie community. And she looks really good, just like she did in grade school.

    She is living the kind of life I had wanted once, but was out of my reach. I have no lover, no children, no grandchildren, no home in the country near a small community, surrounded by the beauty of nature. I’m glad she didn’t know how hard my life has been, how alone and afraid I felt inside, how messed up I’ve been.

    It hurts to have rediscovered her and to reflect upon what my life has been while hers unfolded. It hurts deep, and I cry.

    In trying to straighten myself out, what 33 years of primal therapy and 11 retreats have taught me, is simply this. I never had and never will know parental love. I make my way in the world alone. The child in me will never have anyone, for all of time.

    My stark choices are to give in, or alone nevertheless to try to make a life. No other therapy can give me so much.

    • Larry says:

      I remember the morning Dad took me to my first day of school, grade 1. He lit up a cigarette and nervously smoked it as he drove. I felt odd being alone together with him, because we rarely were. We soon arrived and he walked me into the school room just before class started, made brief conversation with the teacher, and informed her that I had asthma. He told me to raise my hand if I needed to ask her something during class. It was the last and only advice he ever gave me about school. Then his job as a parent completed, he left to get back to his cows and fields.

      I wish I cold go back to that morning. I wish there could have been more feeling between us. If he would have carried me into school, reassured me and hugged me good-bye, I wouldn’t have suffered so much for the rest of my life, I wouldn’t have had to work so hard and so long for relationships, love and self-worth that should come easily.

    • Leslie says:

      What a mesmerizing song that is Larry…Can only imagine how much it resonates with you – both as a relief to have actual words expressing your grief and then the devastating sadness of Noreen having died.
      Thinking of you…
      ox L.

      • Larry says:

        Hi Leslie. Nice to hear from you. I hope you sometime have time to write more about how life is for you.

        The sadness and emptiness isn’t only about losing Noreen any more. The feelings echo broader, deeper, and earlier in time. Almost all the way back there was an aching fear and emptiness

        A few days ago I wrote about Leila, a girl in my grade who I developed a crush on in grades 6-8. From something she said to me in grade 8, and from what someone else told me a couple of years later, that after grade 8 she had written a letter to me that didn’t get delivered, I believe she liked me, too. After grade 8 her family moved away and we went to high school in different provinces. We never saw each other again.

        Last weekend I discovered her on Facebook and from information on the internet was able to fill in some of the broad details of her life over the past decades. Then I sent her a Facebook message asking whether she is the person I went to grade school with. Subsequently over the past few days memories and feelings have opened up of that time in my life, from Dad taking me to my first day at school, to grade 8, and the prominent part she had in it that I’d overlooked. The nice attention I got from the older kids in grade school and from her, the joy and liveliness they had, gave me a perspective of life and connection quite different than the one I had at home where there was just me and my younger siblings…and parents working and tired who just fed us and kept us out of trouble.

        I erupted into crying when I got home today after work. I would never have acted on my feelings for her. We would never have been boyfriend and girlfriend. Even had we went to the same high school, I never would have dated her. I was too shy, too afraid to follow the natural interest between a boy and a girl. I felt too inadequate, too incomplete to be her boyfriend. If I had been able to primal, I would have discovered that I was afraid of opening to the truth that I didn’t have anyone, wasn’t attached to anyone, didn’t belong to anyone, was deadly alone, an island by myself not reaching out because no one was there. Gretchen’s caring and interest helps me recognize and feel how desperately I needed interest and connection from some caring adult then so that I could grow up more wholly.

        Those first days at school I had to be coaxed away from my desk at recess to go play with the other kids. I wasn’t ready yet for this stage of being more independent from my Mom, away from her at school. I hadn’t even attached to her yet. She and I hadn’t got to that stage yet and already life was moving me along, away. Something was wrong. Something vital was missing, a parent-child bond vital to life and growth and development, but I was being herded through childhood growth stages despite the big hole in my soul. And so I would never follow the rich and normal course of life and get to know Leila.

  32. Margaret says:

    I was wrong about the brother being a relative of a terrorist, he was a brother of a muslim policeman who was shot by one of the terrorists while he was already hurt and laying on the ground.

    it was touching to watch the news about the one and a half million participants of the march for freedom of speech and against exremism .
    I was also nicely surprised 50 politicl leaders marching arm in arm as well.

    for what it is worth it still is a powerful and unifying expression of opinion .

    i speciall liked the way the muslim mayor of Rotterdam expressed his strong view in very clear words.
    it seems very useful to have a bit of counterweight against general prejudices against entire groups of people, be it muslim, jewish or christian or other.
    it feels good this time everyone took a stand and expressed themselves against extremism and terrorism.

    wont solve it all, I am sure, but certainly a step in a good direction for creating more communication between different groups and opening an internal dialogue in various groups of (young) people.

    of course the risk is real extreme right will try to use and abuse the situation, but that is no news.

    things were definitely moving today.

    M

    • jackwaddington says:

      Margaret: I see this whole thing by; what I consider; a broadcer aspect. In the primal context it is simply misplaced anger against the ‘other’; little realizing ‘the other’ was mommy and daddy, but since we blocked all that out, we found someone else to vent it upon. In quite another context I see that becase the misplaced expression of anger and hence the inabilty to express it is; a cse of effect, effect, effect … going back for hundreds of years. No nationality is blameless, no religeon is blameless, no governing bodies are blameless, no cultures are blameless.

      The extremeism did not start with the extrems of current believers … be they Muslim or otherwise (the inquistion being only one). I contend that the nature of believing is where it all went wrong in the first place. (I might here refer to Arthur Janovs latest blog comment).

      Believing in reality indicates that we do not know, hense we mentally construct a belief system in order for our own deep repressed feeling to gain some modicum of sence.

      I agree with you that this show of protest by political leaders seems to indicate a more noble protest … but they, these leaders are all ‘hell bent’ preventing grass roots protests. The recent protest against police brutality will not go anywhere becuse the governments will not permit it. That would wreck everything … then the whole of civilization as we’ve created it will fall apart … and neurotics ; being afraid of radical chnge will tweak the edges in order keep the current system relatively in-act.

      Drone attacks are creating more and more anger and hence what we deem terrorist. One set of killings does not make any other killing “righteous”. Drones are also killing innocents, probably way more that were killed in Paris.

      I too have no idea where to begin to reverse any of this.

      Jack

      • Patrick says:

        If I was to write anything like that it would be roundly condemned for ‘being in your head’. But it seems there is one rule for ‘primal upper class’ (Janov and the likes of Jack who write ‘books’ God help us) who can and are ‘in their heads’ all the time and another for ‘primal lower class’ like me who should never have a ‘thought’ just do as they are told and shut up. And any ‘thought’ I might have is just a F-E-E-L-I-N-G (this said in a high pitched strangled ‘scream’ a ‘happy’ Winston Churchill)

      • Erron says:

        “Drone attacks are creating more and more anger”

        – Sorry Jack but I see this being quoted all over this place without attribution or proof. Just sounds good so bears repeating, seems to me. Truth is, we used to be able to travel throughout the nominally Muslim world (Afghanistan – Arabia etc to London) in the 60’s and 70’s. now you’d be asking to have your throat slit. The change happened a long time before drones made their appearance. Something else is going on I think…

        • Patrick says:

          ………….one of the ‘something else’ would be us going in there and systematically wrecking one country after another seemingly by design…………….kinds gives them a bad feeling about us…………..

        • jackwaddington says:

          Erron First off there is no need to be “sorry”. Secondly, maybe it’s being quoted all over the place and I agree that does not mean that, that is proof, but to quote your last line:- “Something else is going on I think” without you suggesting what it might be that you THINK is going on. Simple psychology might tell us that these guys/gals or whatever are very, very angry towards us in the West and my reading of least-ways my country’s history is enough to demonstrate to me that we the British have something of a shameful record … yet we put it all into OUR mind-set that we were the goodies and they were some sort of barbarians, badies, that needed to be FORCED into our way of life … “civilization”.

          The U.S. did the very same with all that mythical notion of the ‘goodies where the cowboys, and the badies were the Indians (native Americans). So easy to make US the righteous ones …and THEM the wrongteous (badies) . Yeah, yeah! we Westerners were able to not only travel all over the world but justified to ourselve that we could plunder their land and their people … AND DID and are STILL DOING. such that WE could freely travel (trample) all over the globe

          They … the oppressed, have had enough and will use whatever their rescourses are to get revenge. Granted that revenge doesn’t solve either their’s or our problem … to live together; cooperatively … on the one ever shrinking planet earth … and particularly since we are all one creature … not hundreds of separate cultures.

          It’s a complex whole social problem that is not getting resolved because we are playing at being so fucking righteous … now that we’ve gotten it all to our own advantage … capital wise.

          If you do come up with a solution by thinking I would love to read it. However my way of dealing with it is through feeling, to quote “the others pain”.

          Jack

  33. Margaret says:

    hurraym back from vet, and although part of the wound and one ear still needs to continue healing, so she still needs to continue a while with the suit and a few days with antibiotics, the vet was impressed and nicely surprised with how well things had evolved, she said it was clear the cat was very well looked after.
    she was also very surprised changhing suits etc. was no problem, and in fact the cat seemed wel enough to give her also her yearly injections so she would not need to come back another time till next year. hopefully..

    so hurray for the moment, and big relief, for me and for cat for being back home and nibbling her yummies.

    M and cat

    • Leslie says:

      It is a relief to hear how well you and your cat are handling all this Margaret. I am glad she is well on the mend!
      ox L.

  34. Margaret says:

    Dear barry,
    thanks for your nice comment.
    hm, right now I still feel too tired to consider the idea of coming over anyway this summer, feel not up to all the hassle.
    new location of PI had a big impact on me as well, makes it all much harder, but that is not all of course.

    will see, miss you and will certainly miss all the others and the action if I don’t go.

    right now have a hard time to even think straight, after 12 days of continuous stress and caring for cat and getting up four times every night while trying to do someti
    hing about my statisticss course as well and trying to manage mother’s situation.

    will give you a few calls soon, it is about time smiley, long time no speak.

    Margot

  35. Margaret says:

    Jack,
    I agree that to carry so much anger, chances are big unresolved feelings are the main drive, in many cases. on top of that other factors of course also have their influence.

    people’s mainds can be manipulated, a very sad example is how in Nigeria terrorist groups manage to make ten and twelve year old girls commit suicide bomb attacks. maybe their families or friends are threatened, maybe they are brainwashed to believe it serves some good cause, hard to tell,.

    still I tend to agree to carry so mmuch hatred there probably is also a lot of primal pain involved.
    and this can be regard
    ded imo in a broad sense, it does not always come down to just the parentss and their lack of love and attention, other traumas can also leave so much unmet grief and therefor anger and bitterness.

    M

    • jackwaddington says:

      Margaret: To quote you:- “people’s minds can be manipulated, a very sad example is how in Nigeria terrorist groups manage to make ten and twelve year old girls commit suicide bomb attacks. maybe their families or friends are threatened, maybe they are brainwashed to believe it serves some good cause, hard to tell,.” I suspect the reason that both The Boco Haram and the girls and/or their families are a direct result of “belief systems” namely religeon. It is, as I see it, this one factor of neurosis (religious beliefs) that so many atrocities have been carried out in the name of ‘some super being’ namely God and/or Alla; that we will not resolve this problem until such times as there is a general acceptance of Primal Theory … and it’s implication.

      One doesn’t need to have a PhD in psycology to figure most of this out. Whilst we, on the one hand, consider the other to be a terrorist … we too are in the same mind set as they are.

      We tend to call it “cause and effect” I have preferred to call it, since my days of EST (Erhards Seminar Training), “effect, effect, effect ad infinitum. Another way of phrasing all this is to say:- “What came first … the chicken, or the egg”. This terrorism is not a new phenominon … it’s been going on for centuries: perhaps even millenium. And, not too far removed from what happening to many of us in childhood. Could Mommy and/or Daddy be OUR first “terrorists?????”

      Jack

  36. Margaret says:

    zzzzz yaawn stretch scratch lick lick nibble munch crunch laplaplaplaplaplaplaplaplap lick wash sigh purrpurrpurr meow maw miw smeksmeksmek wash again meowmoan aaaah scratch in grit purrpurrpurr yeah rub some more purrpurrpurr yawn stretch sharp claws in shoe licklick scratch yawn meow? ouch that stinky stuff on my neck again mmmm jump lick purrpurrpurr rubrub purrpurrpurr yawn snooze zzzz dream twitch twitch zzzz yawn stretch nibble purr cuddle zzzzz
    feline feelings with regards from Molimet the cat

  37. Otto Codigian says:

    i usually see you coming through the blinds. I don’t answer the door and yet you still leave your leaflets strewn on my front porch. Your tie is no longer trendy. When the rapture comes, can I have your shoes? ha ha ha. trying to be funny and nothing happens. much fun at work today pushing a golf cart up the hill because my work buddy thought that 15 minutes of charging would be enough. Really, I mean it was fun. But now I am exhausted, as i am every day,trying to turn water into bill payments, and Z expects me to be a person. I have been screaming maniacally at her recently because she bugs the shit out of me. When I got home from the retreat, we found out she lost her job. It’s been touch and go ever since and finally we are down to using credit cards. The old dog hangs in there but his death is coming soon. The dream I woke up from an hour ago was about my own death. The retreat was good for me, but in the end, too little, too late. I am a goner. It’s all fucking gone. But it has been interesting.

  38. Joe M says:

    I enjoy the retreats. It’s a vacation where I can be myself, hang out, eat, feel and take some chances moving forward. I feel safe there. People are open and friendly. This past summer retreat was great, just great. I really appreciate the effort you guys put forward with the retreats.

  39. Patrick says:

    It’s interesting Larry’s description of his life I can relate to very much. Mine was something quite similar but over laden with an edge of aggression and hostility. Like I was a ‘fighter’ I was bullied too so I was ‘fuck them, fuck these m….f….. I’ll leave them and I’ll show them. I left all right but never succeeded in ‘showing; them anything.

    Can’t some one do something for ‘Otto’ this feels like a really DIRE situation. Otto you ARE funny you are ‘creative’ I think you are the ‘elephant man’ or whatever……………but this seems \serious…………and part of my ‘quarrel’ with primal therapy………..my take is you are someone with a huge and terrible pain and to be pushed into that well it can be dangerous……………I wish you all the best but really try to reach out and get some help………….

  40. Margaret says:

    a man rang my doorbell and asked me if he could look for a little ‘keppel’, the round head cover of his son that had been thrown or blown over the wall from the Jewish school.

    I let him in and allowed him to look on the roofs on my floor, but he said it was probably on the patio of the ground floor.

    I told him to adress the Jewish school next door as the appartment on the ground floor is empty and they own the place.

    I let him out and went down myself a minute or so later, to check as I had not heard the front door, and when I went back up he came out of the ground floor appartment’s door into the hallway.

    he muttered some goodbye and I asked him if he had found the keppel and he said oh, oh yeah, in a way as if he had to think about what I meant.

    I called the school and told them to check the place as I feel concerned he might have had other intentions,as it is pretty impolite to enter a place just to look for a small round head cover, even if the door is unlocked.

    so right now as the school would send the security over I don’t want to get into my bath until they are here in case I have to let them in, and would not want to be blown out of my bath either.

    was up an hour and a half last night as just after changing the cat after an accident in the middle of the night and allowing her for fifteen minutes to wash herself before putting on a new suit, she went again to the litter tray once I was in bed and did it again, so I had to get back up and start all over, luckily I bought a third suit, but anyway washed the two others rightaway to let them dry in time..

    so now am tired, very tired but hey, yesterday solved some statistics problems, some new ones!

    this afternoon expect a control for the gas installation here and also my brother will come by on his way to mom..

    so have to get into my bath anyway, security or not now..

    life is an adventure, sigh..

    hope you will hear again from me, smiley, but hey, I do feel some concern I must admit..
    I live right between a huge Jewish school and a synagogue..

    M

  41. Margaret says:

    feel so tired. treated cat, rolled up her suit now so she is wearing t-shirt instead of bathsuit and can go to toilet and move more easily and with less supervision.
    called mom to remind her of meals my brother left for today and tomorrow.
    she asked about the cat and I answered patiently and listened patiently to all her comments and advices.

    the moment I sat back on my couch the phone rang again and she asked what the box in her fridge was, so I started over but it turned out one meal was already gone so she must have eaten that already today although she does not remember.
    she started to go over all she has in the fridge and freezer extensively so I stopped her and told her noto to mention again all she has in the freezer and I tried to explain her she could eat the second meal tomorrow or even today if she felt like it..

    then she started asking about the cat again and I said we had already talked about it in the former phonecall and she immediately let go but I could hear she felt hurt. hurt with her forgetfullnesss, hurt with my impatience? hard to tell, maybe both, it makes me feel sad, powerless and somewhat guilty, but what can I do?
    what can I do?
    I feel so tired and can’t bring it up to keep going over the same stuff over and over and over and over, it is specially hard on the phone as there is no way , or not much ways to distract things as she really seems to want to talk and go on engaging so much more than I feel able to, or willing to if it is always about the same stuff..

    i am reading a book, kind of literature bit of detective but much more about old age and Alzheimerlike forgetfulness, as the person talking is an old lady in a very similar state as my mother, confused, hurting because of the ways she gets treated, frustrated, but also always losing touch with what she is doing or forgetting what she was about to do or say etc.

    it is confronting to see it from that angle, and scary in a way, but it is so very hard to find a proper way to deal with this,as it is so exhausting and ends
    less to try and remain patient and friendly while setting some kind of boundaries to keep my own sanity.

    my only consolation is she might forget if anything between us makes her feel bad, but I have noticed that in cases we got to si
    ome arguing, she calls me later on just to ask or chat about whatever, probably as she does not remember what happened
    ed, but still feels unpleasant about it in a vague way and tries to resolve it.

    managed to do most of the statistics calculations and tests I am supposed to do about my assiggned casus, here and there an hour or so, and now mostly need to start evaluating and summarizing it all.

    feels good I managed to do most of the work anyhow, though no word from my teacher for over a month, no replies to few e-mails, hopefully he is simply too busy, and hopefully I hear something soon, as I am supposed to get together with him in a few weeks.

    can anyone relate to having to deal with a dementing parent, and is there any advice?

    M

    • jackwaddington says:

      Margaret: You put it out there if there:- “can anyone relate to having to deal with a dementing parent, and is there any advice?”. I do have an idea, but not sure if it would be expedint for me to voice it, even though I never had to deal with a demented parent, but I did have to deal with a demented grand mother, but way less frequently. However,. at the time I did not deal with my granny very well at the time, but do now realize in hindsight that if only I could have listened to her and REFRAINED from saying anything it might have helped. This is something that I have only recently learned by buddying.

      As I see it, we were never got listened to and neither, seemingly, did our parents, and that subliminally is what most of us, deep down, want and need. It’s not what we ever got. Sadly, we now need to do the listening and more often than not did/do not get listened to.

      So for what it is worth Margaret, if you were to just try and listen to your mother and say absolutely nothing, even to the point that she may ask. Just as we never got listened to; so neither did our parents. The great clue I have gleened over the years is that what Primal Therapist do is mainly listen. Giving advice is something I feel most of us, do not require. If we are allowed to just vent off and say all we need to say … for the most part we’d come to just what it is we each needed to say and do. This equally applies to our parent, and yeah!! in my cse with my Granny. Alas, at the time, I was still into ‘acting out’ my own need.

      Ok So here’s me railing against advice and yet giving it. Forgive me. I sincerely hope that there was a germ of support in what I wrote.

      Jack

      • Phil says:

        Jack,I’ve never had to deal with a parent or grandparent with dementia but I thought this was good advice even though it may not help with anypractical aspects of the problem.It is so hard to be a good listener and I think you’re right that it’s a largepart of what a good primal therapist does. It’s certainly exactly what I need in a session. Buddies work well to the extent that they don’t do things whichwill muck it up by making comments, interpretations, and giving advice etc. The only thing is I imagine it would be very difficult to act this way with our ownparent who can push all the buttons and trigger us.Phil Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 23:44:02 +0000 To: phiban@msn.com

        • jackwaddington says:

          That made me feel good Phil and I appreciate it, but as you said it is very difficult and especially dealing with parents as that directly pushes on our buttons. I took me a long time to learn even with a protesting buddy every time I put my oar in, but eventually I did get it … somewhat. However, I am sure if a great chatter-box like me could get it, then I am sure other can … but with practice I do confess.

          Jack

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Margaret
      I am responding to your post about dementia. It’s awful.
      My mum started to show signs of dementia about five years before her death. At that time her husband (not my dad) was still alive. After three years he passed away. my mum started to become more and more forgetful, a clear danger to herself. She left lights on all night. I had her food delivered twice a week, and when she warmed up her dinner, she left the stove on, that could’ve cause a fire. She lived on the third floor of a five story building with a lift.
      then she started to have UTI’s ( urinary tract infections). In the end she ended up in hospital. During recovery, I was asked to attend a meeting with her doctor there and a social worker. They advised me that mum needs to go into nursing home to recover and they will come and visit her there and check up on her progress. After three weeks the team arrived, and after a long conference, which my mum didn’t even understand, they recommended she stay where she was from now on.
      The first six months of her stay, in a pretty good nursing home, she would ask me daily, when is she going home. It hurt me to hear that. and then finally the penny dropped one day, and I told her that if she feels good enough to go home, clean, shop, cook and wash herself, then i take her home immediately. That shut her up for the following 18 months. Towards her end, again, she started to tell me she wants to go home. I realised by then, that her end is near. She passed away early morning about 5 am, three years ago this months.
      As far as I know, all dementia sufferers are different. However, their life should be safe, and if they are not capable of looking after themselves, you need to be ready to go into a nursing home. My mum was in a ” high care ” nursing home. For her it was the right thing to do. For me, it was the right thing to do, in spite of the hurt it caused me. It killed me putting my mum into a nursing home at that time. Her friends, my friends all advised me for months already to do it. I couldn’t. I got lucky that an even occurred, by her being hospitalised, and then I had to face reality.
      In hindsight, it was way past her time to go into the nursing home. She had no quality of life. Had i been stronger, I would’ve done it sooner.
      And this is me talking, who ‘wants her mum all the time’.
      I hope by me sharing my experience will help you decide what’s right for your mum, your brother and you.
      Tom

      • thomas verzar says:

        Hi Margaret
        PS to my posting earlier today.
        The problem I had deciding about mum going into a nursing home was that I “couldn’t hurt my little girl”. Yes. That’s the way it was. I looked after her. She was no longer my mum, but my little girl. When she said she doesn’t want to go into a nursing home, I heard “don’t hurt me !!!!”. I heard ” please don’t hurt me !!!”. It killed me to hurt her. So there was an old feeling there
        But in reality, I should’ve decided much sooner. But it would’ve killed me to hurt her. Therein was my dilemma.
        No, it’s not easy. And now she is gone. And all I want, day and night, is my mum.
        I want you !!!!! I want you right now !!!!!. Now !!!!!
        I go crazy with my need for her.
        I found it difficult, or down right impossible to separate present day reality from my old needs.
        I hope you fare better.
        Tom

  42. Margaret says:

    I feel pretty shocked by two news items.
    one about a man in Saudi Arabia who was sentenced to years and years of imprisonment and 1000 (!) beatings with a stick, divided over sets of if I remember well ten beatings, a hundred times..
    that is so terribly awful, I have no words for it, a slow and extremely death penalty, all for starting up a website promoting freedom of speech in Saudi Arabia.
    one small consolation is there are demonstrations to support him and to protest.

    then there was a large item about Boko Haram and how the people of North Nigeria, very poor, are stuck between murderous actions of Boko Haram and similar actions of the nIgerian army who also have erased entire villages.

    south Nigeria is wealthy and contains the oil reserves so in the election propagnde this problem is not even mentioned.

    also the media pay little attention, no interests there, no oil, so no pictures.
    ok, not an easy task to go there but it is heartbreaking to witness what keeps going on.

    also there was little follow up news about the refusal of Israel to pay Palestina its taxes because they want to join the international Den Haag court.
    have heard nothing about that anymore, despite it being also pretty shocking.

    • Anonymous says:

      What’s also pretty shocking Margaret if you stop and think about it is the ‘jihadis’ of ISIS or whatever are literally on ‘our’ side and maybe better said on Israel’s side in that this whole thing of going to Syria and ‘fighting’ there is to fight the Syrian Government is the SAME Government we want to bomb and almost did except for the UK Parliment in the Summer of 2013. ‘Our’ agenda and their agenda is the “SAME” i.e. knock out the actual Government of Syria just as we have knocked out the Government of Iraq and Libya and want to do to Iran next (at least Israel does)

      We are sowing death and destruction all over the Middle East and they way I see it we are mostly just proxies for the Israeli project of ruination of any neighbors who are in any way ‘strong’ or ‘coherent’. To be replaced by weakness and in-coherence.

      And in a typical ‘twist’ this latest brouhaha in France and now Belgium is ‘spun’ as being a problem of ‘anti-semitisim’ Zionism which to me seems the bunsen burner inflaming this whole problem is then ‘presented’ to the public and a problem of ‘anti-semitism’ and now in France people people are being arrested for maybe well saying the kind of thing I am saying here…………………..so I better be careful…………

      It is interesting what you say and I have not heard that said anywhere but the Mossad are running around Belgium ‘running things’ you might say. It makes sense because most all of these western governments seem to almost have no ‘mind of their own’ anymore just proxies for the Zionist/Jewish agenda.

      It sickens me to see the ‘news’ so spun and distorted where ‘advertising’ and ‘spin’ is way stronger than any ‘truth’………………….

      • Patrick says:

        Sorry that was me (probably obvious) thought maybe in this case I should leave in ‘anonymous’ though I think the ‘mossad’ would work it out…………

  43. Margaret says:

    just ran into a great quote from Gandhi.
    when asked ‘what do you think about Western civilization?’ he responded:’it would be a good idea.’
    M

  44. Margaret says:

    Dear Jak, dear Phil, dear Tom,
    thanks to all of you for your feedback and advice, it is very welcome and highly appreciated.

    yes, it is hard, and dilemma is a word that applies to so much aspects of the situation.
    it is not only listening to my mom but she also repeatedly asks me the same stuff over and over which triggers the old feeling of her trying to control me and sucking me dry. so then there is the dilemma of being nice and patient to the point of hurting and feeling I go crazy and risk losing myself completely surrendiering to her, or ‘hurting’ her by at some point not extensively answering the same questions anymore just for filling in her insaciable need for attention, as on everything I tell her her response is advice or something about her, that’s how it feels anyway.

    what you said Tom, about not wanting to hurt the little girl, makes all the sense of the world, but I agree it is necessary to set boundaries, for our own and their sake.

    we have started up some administrative mills to get her mental state checked and filed as to apply for places in nursing homes in more concrete ways.

    one moment mom accepts the idea and the next she is back to never wanting to leave her house, or definitely not yet..

    on another note today the alert level is raised here in Belgium from 2 to 3 on a scale of 4.

    the Jewish schools are closed for today for that reason, and my brother just called to check on me if I preferred to go stay with him or with my mom instead of staying here right in the middle of a target zone.

    but I feel relatively safe with all the extra police vigilance and the security of the school itself, mossad as I heard, without it being recognised as Belgium officially does not allow foreign secret services on their territory.

    yesterday one of them approached me on the street to tell me they had checked what I had called the school about, the man looking for his son’s keppel who had entered the empty appartment on the ground floor had indeed been a dad trespassing looking for his son’s keppel.

    I appreciated the security man making the effort of telling me, and feel glad about the contact as now they also know I mean well and cooperate.

    I would cooperate with anyone to prevent crimes being committed, but it is good to feel more part of their ‘in-crowd’ to a very small degree, at least some good contact has been established which is always a positive thing.

    I heard on the news, and my brother heard it too, even there in the Netherlands where he lives, that the plan for the terrorists they caught and also killed last night, was to catch a high member of Belgian police or a politician and to chop his head off, while recording it to put it on the internet and broadcast it later on.

    that is so hard to conceive, that they acctually plan things like that here in our small, crazy but relatively peaceful country.

    hard times in so many different ways for so many people.

    anyway, thanks for the great feedback, guys.

    UG, are you still there??
    p.s. ‘Otto’, I wish you’d stick to one kind of pseudonyms, I don’t like it people pretend to be someone else inhere.

  45. Jo says:

    I am feeling quite down and isolated, for several days now. The move to UK is completed, and utilities sorted, fun buying new furniture, exploring a little, finding a good sports masseur, but now the hardest part. Getting a life, meeting people, evolving friends.
    Like you, Ted, I am the only one who can make it happen. All credit to you Ted, staying in one place, evolving stability.
    Although I have joined an art group, it is not enough,, and I have a plan to play tennis soon when my back is better. I have an hiatus, which I have to fill with distractions – tv, creating art on my own, walking, shopping, so so lonely. Jumping out of my skin if someone speaks to me!
    I want to run, and connect (in my desperation) with family,and cant. I learned that this is my neediness, which is inappropriate to subject families to. (They are also grown up, have families of their own and have enough stress going on).
    The way through is feel when I can. And write something here.

    • Leslie says:

      Exactly as your last 2 sentences say Jo :).
      It is a lot to move to a new (again) country Jo. It is really something how you have given yourself all these incredible experiences and challenges and continue to do so.
      Good luck with it all! I will look forward to what you post.
      It does take a long time – at least a year to feel like its home – I think and remember for me anyway.
      The bittersweet thing is that you know all the good friends you have – just in other parts of the world is all :). Hope that is reassuring as you reach out and get to make new ones!
      ox L.

  46. Margaret says:

    Jo,
    so you made the transition to the U.K., it sounds like a big challenge to create a new life there, hard work.
    but you are very clear and outspoken about what you need to do and what to avoid,I wish you the very best there and hope you soon will find friends.

    Patrick,
    all the situations you mention seem very complex to me, not a black and white thing where one partie is ‘the god side’ and the other party the ‘eveils’.

    to start with even the best meaning government, if that exists at all, is still merely looking in the best case scenario after the interests for its own country, often at the cost of others, and more often looking after the interests of a few people in power positions, political, armed power or industrial or multinational powers and banks.

    so noone can claim to be entirely right at all, because that would for me mean to look after the general interest of people regardless of their nationality, and that stage is far away still. and also genuine fairness would even not only look after the people but after the healthy interests of the whole world in general, nature included.

    but on a smaller scale I must confess having an efficient security protecting my street is reassuring under the circumstances.

    I seek no scapegoats, although I do feel strongly negative about the big money behind the scenes guiding the battles , providing the weapons and seeking only to increase their own power and interest at the cost of thousands of lives of innocent people.

    I loathe the ideas of the people enforcing systems that turn women into slaves, but some of them are brainwashed while others know very well what they are doing and are so much more guilty imo.

    as i say, it seems way too complex to me to even form a clear opinion, I can only watch and listen and think what I think but without presuming to have an option on any truth at all.

    so your opinions are entirely yours, not mine.
    M

    • Patrick says:

      Margaret – I would think it is obvious that my opinions are mine not yours. Does that need to be said? And this is not some kind of news channel where the ‘station’ has to distance itself from some individuals lol………….”We want to make it clear that Patrick’s opinions are entirely his own and get no endorsements from the Keeper of the Crypt or the Crypt itself”.

  47. Jo says:

    Cheers Margaret

  48. Margaret says:

    Barry,
    it was so very nice to talk with you, won’t wait so long the next time,
    M

  49. “Sometimes the piano comes to us, but more often we have to make considerable effort. We have to decide we want to play music, buy a piano and most importantly, prioritize our lives to include sitting on that bench and making music. Over time, we become capable of new musical skills and the horizon is wide open.” Well, the piano has sat in the closet for 2 or 3 Christmases now, and I touched it once or twice. If I leave it out in my bedroom, the dogs pee on the stand. But what the heck, my drive and lust for life have been waning for a few years now. At least I am now listening to a little music, having let it slip away at some point…letting it slip away being the story of my life. I used to not like Taylor Swift, but I like the songs Blank Space and Shake it Up. I don’t know why I am getting teary while typing that sentence. It sounds like she knows that she is “insane”, I like that there is not pretense. Or maybe I am just reading stuff into it. Also Albatraoz, catchy and girl with bad voice but nice clothes singing and dancing. All the rest is garbage. Occasionally, some oldie sounds good, or I find some new oldie, like Salt-n-Peppa, that I never listened to before. Parody of Shake it Off is cute video, detailing the travails of parenthood. Wife’s cover of Salt-n-Peppa song while husband is driving, more cuteness, happy coupleness.


    ok teacher, that is my book report. going to bed so i can go back to the coal mine in the morning. THANK GOD FOR THE FRIGGIN’ COAL MNE!

    • Vicki says:

      Thanks, Otto — I like the piano quote, and the Taylor Swift parody. I had just today seen the dashcam video of a police officer singing along with “Shake it Off”, that I like.

  50. Patrick says:

    Otto your songs remind me of this I happened to hear today………..an old one

  51. Margaret says:

    just finished ‘Elisabeth is missing’ from Emmma Healey.
    the entire book is written from the perspective of a dementing lady, who searches a girlfriend she does not find anymore and her sister who disappeared long ago.
    but that is only the setting of a very nice and inspiring book about how it can be to be dementing and how it must feel when other people respond in their various ways on the confusion and endless repetitions.

    nice book .

    M

  52. Leslie says:

    I was so pleased to hear DJ’s on a radio station discuss “Which is a better method to deal with a break-up – dwell on it or help yourself move on” – to get over it. I was driving to work and thought for sure they were going to detail snappy tips of how to move on. But no – they then quoted some study that had shown to dwell on the relationship proves to be the better long term solution.
    Yeah! Although I wouldn’t say “dwell” I know we would agree that letting yourself go where you need to – to feel the hurt, loss, anger…is going to work out so much better in the long run.

    I am glad to be feeling good. I so love and appreciate these times of calm – where by not everything is ‘peachy keen’ 24/7 but what surfaces is enough to just feel is there, and yet not overwhelm.. .Living – that is what it is and what was so distant from me for so many years when I was always going to live once I got myself together, stopped eating compulsively, got so slim …

    B. & I are doing great! I am always truly happy about that. Again not every minute is euphoric – but lots are. We are really making strides in resolving arguments. It was so illuminating to really see how strongly each one of us holds on to and has to keep what we think, believe…to be our side during a fight. This – between US – who love & have been so there for each other for 37 years!
    However, in the heat of a fight I am desperate to survive, not be squashed down etc. and Barry feels the same way – not wanting to be obliterated by me. It really takes some time for us to go thru all that we do.
    And although at the time I truly hate it – I am not advocating changing that incredible release of being able to say what I need to – as I never had that before and only now have it with Barry. I don’t want to jump steps and make up so as to not go to bed angry etc.and all that stuff.

    The thing I appreciate now is that we are moving a little faster to each get to what is truly going on…Unbelievable miscommunication – whereby each one of us has such a different, unique & true to us take on it & so often – a primal history. It is only then – when we can begin to unearth this – that the love/trust/safety we have in each other begins to slowly seep back in.

  53. Hi Margaret:
    Yes, I am still here. On Thursday morning, a black swan arrived at my doorstep adorning an amulet inscribed with the words “Swiss National Bank”. It was a cataclysm for many and it appears I may have to completely start over with learning a new computer programming language as a result.

  54. Vicki says:

    Glad I came here today, to find Ted has posted, after years (response way above). But I was going to write about some pieces of feelings I went through earlier today, as I did my “dog-duties”:

    Trying to sort raw chicken into double-plastic bags this morning, I made a mistake, and found juice on the outside of an inner bag. I got so upset, as I was so clear what I wanted to do when I started, but hadn’t paid close enough attention to get it done right — that I started crying, “I can’t do it right! I just can’t! I can never, never, never get it right! Never! Never!” and it felt like I never would, ever…. “I am such a loser. Just such a loser! My mom was right! My aunt was right! She said, ‘You’re never going to amount to anything!’ They were right!” On and on.

    As I struggled to fix the chicken problem, washing and fixing and re-washing my hands to keep from contaminating everything I touched, at one point I said to myself, “No, no, that’s not right!” And my dog, who had been watching me from the backyard, ran away and hid behind the garage, making me feel bad about scaring her.

    After I cleaned up from the chicken, and sat down, I was still getting images of both of them from childhood, my mom angrily shaking her finger at me. She would tell me, “You’re a bad, bad girl!”, over, and over, and over, and over, and over. I’m not sure what it was about, but maybe her toilet training. And “You’re old enough to know better. You’re a big girl!” and somethings like, “You just want to be bad. You’re doing it on purpose!” They couldn’t hurt me enough, to make themselves feel better. And so it happened over and over. Just getting clobbered with it. So I just get triggered easily, with one thing or another, and just need to feel whatever the next part of the “pool” is, that comes up.

    • Jo says:

      Soooo hurtful Vicki….

      • Vicki says:

        Thanks, Jo.

        • Ted says:

          Hello Vicki,
          Glad to hear you are still facing your pain and I hope that you also get to experience some joy in your life as well. Your story is awful how your parents beat you down until there was almost nothing left. It is a testament to your strength that you are here and that you can cut and bag chicken and feel at the same time!

          Thanks for all that you did for me while I was in LA. The fact that you have heart and care about others is also a testament to your strength and beauty.

          • Vicki says:

            The “you can cut and bag chicken and feel at the same time!” made me laugh, thanks. I guess I don’t know “all that I did for” you while you were here, but you’re welcome, Ted, I just remember we were friends, and had some nice talks.

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Vicki
      Your mother sounds insane.I just don’t know how you lived through your childhood and come out as well as you did. Where was your dad in all this? Didn’t he intervene, or he couldn’t care less, or too busy?
      I just don’t know how you and your siblings got through it.
      And I am complaining. I should pull my head in.
      You are strong.
      Tom

      • Vicki says:

        She was insane, in ways she never realized. She felt that she was doing a good job as a mother, because we had a roof over our heads, three meals a day, and clothing — yet we heard we were “ungrateful”. My dad was only strong in limited ways, some times. He was kinder, but also stuck in his own angry triggers, often behaving like a two-year old enraged. She was more often able to bully him verbally, until he blew up at her in anger, and she would temporarily quit. When they were very old, my brothers and I got angry at her and stopped her from treating him that way, as we saw it killing him.

        I think part of how we got thru it was that their craziness was not as complicated as other parents. They were both born before 1915, and not very educated (although both bright, and both readers) — rather kind of primitive in their ideas, not intellectuals. I think they didn’t mess with our heads as much as others seem to have had it from their parents. Thanks, Tom.

    • Larry says:

      She was cruel.

  55. Margaret says:

    UG, that’s a pretty cryptic commment you wrote, at least to me it is..

    Vicky,
    thanks for sharing some more about yourself here, it is hard to imagine constantly being treated like that.
    since when do you have a dog??
    what is its name? or her name?
    what is she like? sorry if I don’t rmember well that she is a she, already deleted the latest comments before replying and feel to tired to look them up again.
    this seems like a pretty important feeling you are dealing with.
    am still considering whether I will be your neighbour bunker this summer or whether I will give it a pass this year.
    want to be there, but without the hassle of travelling and commuting etc.

    M

    • Vicki says:

      Margaret, I almost forgot I hadn’t written about “Baby” on the blog. Five months ago, we found her living under an old car, for 3 weeks my neighbors fed her in my driveway. They couldn’t take her in, because their own dog is chronically jealous. I learned that the dogpounds kill 1/2 of the dogs turned in, from too many dogs to handle and find homes for, so I took her into my yard, and for 4 months tried to find her a home, without results. So I have ended up adopting her, she is a real sweetheart, but it’s clear she’s been abused previously, and she has slowly been relaxing with me. My neighbors help by briskly walking her every day for me, as they love her too. And my brother helps by sometimes visiting her and walking her, and feeding her while I went to the retreat.

      Christmas eve, I took her to the vet for her exam and shots, and they did a test on a lump on her neck, and found it’s cancerous, with a very expensive surgery recommended. I have been collecting advice and referrals from friends, and will take her to another vet for a 2nd opinion, trying to find a less expensive option. A friend is also helping me with the costs. I will let you know how the whole thing progesses.

      As I write, Baby is taking a nap behind me on the floor of my room, wearing her little red bandana that her groomer put on her neck a week ago, and which she doesn’t want me to take off. Last week when I took her in the car in the rain so I could shop, my brother stayed with her in the car, and later said she watched for me, and when someone else parked and got close to my car, she “snorted” at them (no bark or growl). That makes me smile. She has upended my life, for sure.

  56. Leslie says:

    Vicki,
    What a horror for you as a little girl to be subjected to that abuse. So glad you could post those ugly scenes. You were right there in the present and the past in your descriptions.
    Sure hope there is some relief for you having rid yourself of what was there for you today.
    Your dog will enjoy the hugs.
    ox L.

    • Vicki says:

      Thanks, Leslie. Yes, feeling the feelings is always a relief, it’s recovering the emotional and physical memories more clearly of what really did happen, not just knowing about them intellectually for years.

  57. Margaret says:

    Vicky,
    ha, that’s so nice Baby entered and was welcomed into your life!
    she sure sounds as an enrichment! and she must also be very happy with the change of her fate!
    hope you find a good solution for the illness, that must be a big concern, hate to think of it, hope if necessary you find a way to get her operated and healthy again, good luck to the two of you, and glad to hear you have support there.
    xx M and cat

  58. thomas verzar says:

    Hi Margaret and Ted ( I wish i could remember what you look or looked like)
    About mum.
    I visited my mum every day in her apartment for 6 months, before she went into a nursing home.
    In the first year and a half she was in the nursing home, I visited her every day, sometimes twice a day, until one day the head nurse asked me to come in and have a talk to me. she advised that i should take a vacation of at least two weeks away from Sydney. I told her i couldn’t do it, I couldn’t leave my mum. Then she suggested I get away for one week. I said I couldn’t do it, I couldn’t leave my mum. Then she said i need to go away at least for a weekend. I said I’ll try.
    Gradually I dropped in on my mum every second day, most days. and once or twice I didn’t see her until the third day.
    I knew i was acting out something, but didn’t know what. I knew I was taking care of ‘my little girl’.
    But I started to realise gradually that I had this hugely delusional hope that somehow my mum will be my mum. She will somehow miraculously start connecting with me, be one with me, comfort me, be the mother I needed, be the mother I needed her to be.
    A couple of days before her death I took a picture of her with my phone. The morning she died, I took a picture of her lying in bed, not moving. I sat next to her, held her hand and waited. Waited for something. The doctor arrived and interrupted my reverie to check her out and give a provisional death certificate. Then the mortuary car arrived to take her away. Then I was told to leave. I couldn’t comprehend that that’s it.
    NO MORE MUM !!!!!!
    NO MORE HOPE !!
    THERE IS NO WAY THAT I COULD BE HE GOOD BOY< SO THAT SHE WOULD TURN INTO MY GOOD MUM !!!!
    I got up and started to walk out. There went all my hope. There was nothing I could do any more.
    MUM !!!!!! I STILL NEED YOU !!! I WANT YOU !!!!
    This week is her Yarzeit, her 3rd year memorial. I am going to the Synagogue. I will stand with the Rabbi and repeat after him a prayer of remembrance. I miss her more and more. I cannot believe it. My little mummy is gone. FOREVER !!!!
    It hurts.
    Tom

    • Margaret says:

      Tom,
      your story made my throat choke up as I relate to what you describe.

      how was your mum when you were with her?
      did she hear you, did she see you and show any interest in you at all?
      did you feel your need was met in some minimal way?

      what did you hope for, what would you dream of she would do or say?
      how would she have to be?

      M

      • thomas verzar says:

        Hi Margaret
        What I wanted from my mum, was for her to want me. That’s it.
        I am not saying I was an unwanted child. I just never got the feeling that she wanted me. Our relationship evolved into….. how can I be there for her, the child mother, who never grew up.
        I wanted the closeness with her, that I never experienced with her. I wanted an intimacy that only a mother and child has. or shall I say I observed with some mothers around me, then and now.
        I could never figure out what wasn’t taking place between her and I.
        Whenever Suzi talks about her mum I start to tear up. The intimacy they had, that I observed, was a different world for me. Even today, when she talks about her, I tear up. And her mum passed away two years ago.
        I suppose an other way of saying it is that I want my mum inside me to carry with me for the rest of my life. To feel complete. To feel comforted. To have melted into each other’s eyes. To be one.
        I am not sure if i am clear enough here, but I wanted to give it a go. Thereby acknowledging to myself, in public, what I didn’t get. All my feelings, right from day one of my therapy, always seemed so ephemeral.
        Tom

    • Ted says:

      Hello Tom,
      I woke up this morning fighting lethargy, the urge to go back to sleep. This is the “end all” of the cellular memory coming forward once again, the pattern of how I coped with my mom not wanting me or touching me or loving me, leaving me in the crib to cry it out. I stopped crying as it was useless, and my only defenses against the hurt were to take a crap or a piss, or fall asleep. I fight the urge to want to roll over and sleep because I have to get up and take care of myself, but that defense is pretty strong. The lie to just not need or want also haunts me.

      I’m contemplating to go see her today, but honestly Tom, I never had any connection to this woman and she is like a stranger to me. My overdeveloped left brain can justify how she came by her insanity quite honestly, as a young girl herself during war torn Germany, she saw atrocities and experienced the horror of war that no one should ever have to see or experience. She was never able to talk about it or to finally feel the pain and hurt of her own childhood. So the cycle continues and is passed down from generation to generation.

      And I swore I would never do that to my kids. I read the Primal Scream in 1971, and my daughter was born in 1976. We had her at home in the warmth of a small room under candle light with just a few friends and family around, and she was welcomed into this world without any violence. Her needs were met. She is such a joy to watch her in her life now. I should send you the video of our father daughter dance from her wedding this year. You can see it in her eyes.

      I was not perfect because my neediness still came through and I worked too much when the girls were small and they missed out on their daddy time. I can see that too. Even with the best of intentions and all of the left brain knowledge, I still passed on some of my neurosis to my kids.

      So, as I stand at the nexus looking forward and back, its ME who still has the missing imprint of love on the cellular level, at the core of my being. I can feel love when you hug me Tom, or when Leslie would hug me, or when my daughters say “I love you daddy” and give me a hug. They can also feel my hugs come from my core when I hug them.

      But my mother is going to die soon without ever feeling that love. Almost none of her 9 children ever come to see her, she is as alone as anyone could possibly be at this last hour of her life. So, is it empathic and human for me to go and give her a hug and hold her hand and give her a taste of what unconditional love is like? Even if she cannot receive it and I have to deal with the pain still welling up inside me, I have empathy because I have felt (some of) the pain Tom,and I can feel when you hurt without needing anything from you.

      For this I am thankful for Primal Therapy and the retreats and the people who love me unconditionally and have empathy for my pain because they “know” and feel it just as I do,

      • Ted says:

        I’m playing this song before I go to see her. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwFiWCUkk4M

      • Leslie says:

        Sooo glad you are here Ted!
        ox L.

      • Jo says:

        Excruciating to read. Thinking of you Ted…XO

      • thomas verzar says:

        Hi Ted
        First of all, please send me the video of the two of you dancing. That I’d love to see. thomas.verzar@gmail.com.
        I relate to you wanting to sleep. Almost always when the need ( needing my mum) hits me I need to sleep, and that could happen any time, anywhere, I need to lie down and I literally pass out. It happens before I become aware of what is making me so sleepy. Or shall I say it used to. Now I am starting to become aware that ” I am so little and I don’t know what to do, how to take care of myself’. I do not know how to connect to my mum. I am lonely. I need some human warmth. The overwhelming pain is so unbearable, I pass out. Even as I am writing, I am starting to get a headache. Time to lie down soon and sleep. Sometimes I do not give in. The headache gets worse. And sometimes it passes away. But the first chance I get, I sleep. Even if only for a few minutes.
        I took a break to talk with my step-son, who is autistic and needs a lot of help encouragement. The headache has dissipated.
        Anyway, i seem to be going on and on.
        Tom.

    • Larry says:

      You harbour SO MUCH hurt, Tom.

  59. Margaret:
    What I was trying to say was that the Swiss National Bank removed a 1.20 exchange peg for EUR/CHF Thursday. In other words the Swiss removed a value ceiling for the Swiss Franc against the Euro. It financially devastated a lot of people throughout the world to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars in a matter of seconds (including a broker I was using to the tune of $225 million). Now this broker is on life support and it was a tragedy to witness the carnage three little bald guys in a bank boardroom in Switzerland suddenly created. I wasn’t directly caught in the crossfire, but it’s looking increasingly likely I will have to learn a new programming language in order to creatively use another platform with another broker, etc.

  60. Margaret says:

    Tom,
    I reread your comment about your mum, and this time it struck me at the end making tears come to my eyes how much you love her.
    so sad.

  61. Margaret says:

    ted,
    now I know you are the first Ted I met, years ago.
    you sound very good, it is nice to hear you talk.
    I even tend to think we met when I could still see well, I seem to have quite a detailed memory of what you looked like.

    must have been ’96 97, true?
    M

  62. Chris P says:

    Nice to hear from you Ted.

    Wow Ted, it’s amazing how much I can relate to ALL that you have been writing here the last couple of days; especially the difficulty with whether or not to see your mom. I was back home last winter and I was struggling with whether I wanted to see my mom or not. I decided I did not want to see her. She is so empty and pathetic in some ways. I can’t even speak to her on the phone; she is like a complete stranger to me. She gave me nothing, and now that she is in the waning “autumn of the year”, I feel so sad and hopeless about our “relationship”. I used quotes because I am not even sure I can call what we had a relationship. The whole thing was a mistake from the very beginning.

    I agree with Margaret, you sound really good–clear and in touch with your feelings. I hope you keep writing here and I would love to see that video of you and your daughter dancing. I’m not sure if this is a breach of privacy (if so, pardon me), but I think one of your daughters was in group a few times. Was this the one who got married?

    Chris

  63. Keith Wilkinson says:

    Hi Atty, Have you changed your email address Cheers, Keith

  64. Margaret says:

    Tom,
    thanks for answering my questions.

    despite it still being tremendously sad, you do sound different somehow. better, hard to find a word for it, stronger?
    more yourself?
    keep doing what you do, you’re a fine person and important for a lot of people.
    M

  65. Hey Keith , We assumed you accidentally posted your private info so we erased it. I’m not sure why you are having a problem with the email but I will mention it to Atty. Do you want to give her a call in the meantime? Gretchen p.s. Welcome to the blog anyway !

  66. One of the materialistic conundrums that really ruin my day and make me want to lay down in bed goes as follows….

    Why build any legacy in life when the total materialist knows that his/her consciousness will be evaporated and will never know what a legacy even means to begin with?

    For instance, if I was pushing a 20-pound boulder up a hill so I could leave a legacy of a pretty little statue at the hill’s summit, why would I continue with the project if I know that I could be put to death in some manner and never see the rock again? What’s the point in going through the effort if, in the end, we will never know what the word “effort” even means, much less the concepts of “boulder” or “hill” or “rock” if death is the permanently dark abyssal maw of now knowing anything?

    If I know that I will never know the legacy I was trying to leave behind, why bother working my ass off? I might as well despoil the lands and make my own hedonistic pleasure the paramount concern. Arthur Janov’s contention that love is merely a neurochemical event (“a squirt of chemical juice throughout the system”) only cements this vexing problem for me.

    • CORRECTION: *dark abyssal maw of not knowing anything (forever)

    • jackwaddington says:

      Guru: So at the risk of playing therapist … What was the feeling whilst writing that comment?????

      Jack

    • Patrick says:

      Guru – for some reason this comes into my mind. Imagine even just one day in say the life of a fish, near the surface of the ocean, for 12 hours he is inundated with light, then for 12 hours darkness, it is cold there are predators about……………..but he seems to ‘enjoy’ it or enjoy it enough to want to go on living and to re-produce…………it seems to me the ‘natural’ condition of life is something close to ecstasy, in that case there is not such a need to ‘leave things behind’ or worry about your ‘legacy’………..to be alive is enough and I think humans are capable of even more ‘ecstasy’ than the fish so it seems you are ‘missing’ something there…………………maybe the pleasure in just being alive and forget the pain for a minute………………

    • vicki says:

      Hey, U.G. it seems to me “legacy” is about wanting to be remembered, after you’re gone. How do you want to be remembered, and by whom (if there is someone)? Or is it just an idea of “my life didn’t matter” if there’s no “legacy”? Your life must matter to YOU — where “now” intersects with your life, you need to have something going on, the way you would like it to be. I derive value and meaning from my daily actions of trying to improve my life. I feel good or bad depending on how my efforts are succeeding. I also feel good about enjoying things “now”, which is the main event, after all. When I think about “being gone” and “no one caring”, I find it has to do with early feelings of “being abandoned” or “being left alone” as an infant or small child.

      To me, that is a broader picture than the one I think you are painting yourself into a corner of. I sense some of the feelings behind what you wrote, as you search for meaning. The hopelessness you seem to be feeling comes from early on, I believe.

      • jackwaddington says:

        Vicki: For what it’s worth I am tempted to agree with you. The need for a legacy is something I only feel I need when other needs are not met.

        Some years back my brother showed me an old photograph of a town meeting that was more than 100 years old and said “do you realize that most of those people are now dead … including the children”. I think it was then that I began to wonder about what my existence meant in terms of other people … very little I suspect after I am gone. Then after those few that might remember me, are gone, then I suspect that will be the total end of me.

        So!!! for me, enjoy … as best I can … what I’ve got left … whilst I can.

        Jack

  67. Margaret says:

    Keeeith!!!
    this seems like you accidentally appeared here on the blog but hi and so welcome here anyway, hope you will venture here more often!!

    sent you an e-mail, but definitely would love it if you’d join us here, Margaret

  68. When I was in LA Dr. Barry B. urged me to get a cheaper place in the city, away from the nice hostel spot I rented in Venice with a view of the Pacific Ocean. I had lots of trouble leaving that gorgeous spot, but I complied with Barry’s urging. I landed a super cheap place in a rough neighborhood in Culver City. Stayed for several months even though I hated it. One day a Primal guy showed up and explained to me for hours all the reasons why this life is all there is. When we die, it’s all over. We will never even know we were alive. Just….nothing….nothing at all. “We’re mammals, we’re monkeys! Coooochie-cooochie COOO! Wooo hoo hoo!. You have no soul. When you die your soul goes with it. Life after death is absurd!”
    On top of dealing with a total atheist bully I couldn’t possibly give a proper retort to, I looked out the window as the conversation died down and saw a rat walking along the power lines. Yes, beautiful choreography for the whole situation.
    I was so depressed and in despair at this guy’s conversation and the entire scenery I just laid on the floor for almost two days after that, only getting up to drink water or restroom breaks.

  69. Patrick says:

    “They do not celebrate life; they celebrate death and often ask to be killed. They give up their life happily to be known as a “martyr.” For that word they are willing to die. Imagine, the most precious gift anyone of us have is life. To throw that away for a word is indeed psychotic.”

    The above is from Art Janov’s blog this week. He is talking about the killers in the Charlie Hebdo case in France. The first thing that occurs to me is that could have been said by George Bush or Dick Cheney or any number of neo-cons or whomever

    Another thing I notice about Janov he talks a lot about Nazis and their murderous deeds, He talks about the Dutch Famine and how it was caused by Nazis. He talks now quite a bit about Muslims and their ‘crazy’ religious ideas which in the end are of course just driven by ‘first line pains’ He talks about how ‘crazy’ the Catholic Church is…………….but the never approaches talking about the Israeli massacre in Gaza just this last summer where 500 children were slaughtered and 1500 civilians the same thing. A totally defenseless population being pounded by the most advanced weapons in the world……………….but there seems to be no need to probe what ‘feelings’ might be causing that to happen.

    He might be an ok ‘psychologist’ but as a historian or political analyst he is pretty poor………..and poor because he is ‘biased’ and ‘one sided’ a bit like his theories.

    • jackwaddington says:

      Your response to a section of Art’s blog again to me seemed that you “missed the wood for the trees. Just because he did not mention any atrocities of Israelis against Palestinian isn’t to say that he is not aware of them. I feel he is deeply aware … of all atrocities … and that is what his article was about. He said more than once that the real danger was in “belief systems”. Killing in the name of …. (fill in the blanks).

      Some time back there was a discussion on forgiveness and it was “deemed” (that dirty word again) that forgiveness was a noble and enlightening act. I, at the time, disagreed. Interestingly for me, I quote also a section from Art’s blog, writing:-

      “One thing I fail to understand is that after the killing, the remaining journalist put out another massive issue, stating in effect, on the cover, ‘all is forgiven’. I don’t get it. Are the religious precepts so strong as to override rational feeling? What bothers me is the majesty of it all; ‘when I forgive I am above all that. I have the power to forgive those lesser beings.’ ‘I am the great forgiver.'”

      Jack

      • Patrick says:

        Well I didn’t get what that cover of the magazine did with their “All is Forgiven” headline. I may be wrong but to me it seemed another ‘smart-alec’ type of response. Like they show a picture of the Prophet (as he is called!) which they know they are not ‘supposed’ to do so being ‘smart-alec’ and then “All is Forgiven” I take as another smart ass comment like they are implying Muslims would not or cannot ‘forgive’ unlike them who can…………….but that is not even close to being ‘sincere’

        Anyway enough I suppose about that…………….but Jack you of all people should know the limitations of words how words can even become their ‘opposite’, in one context a word can mean this, in another that. To get hung up on whether ‘forgiveness’ (whatever exactly it means (there is ‘forgiveness’ of oneself and forgiveness of another………….are they the ‘same’ on and on you could go with this) in a particular context is ‘good’ or ‘bad’ seems unlike you…………….or at least unlike your ‘theories’ but actually when I think about it it is not that unlike you

        A song…………….

  70. Patrick says:

    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/17/after-ptsd-more-trauma/?_r=0

    This is a story from last Sunday’s NY Times…………….I found it interesting almost as a proxy for the ‘debate’ about ‘cathartic’ therapies versus more ‘cognitive’ based therapies. Also I think a fair amount of work is being done on what’s called PTSD. After all there are hundreds of thousands of people carrying this inside them now after all our mis-begotten wars. I think this is interesting like PTSD is a proxy for what people here (primal people) suffered from in one way or another.I heard on the radio of a ‘therapy’ for PTSD involving ‘virtual reality’ where they simulated all the sounds and smells etc of battle to more easily get the person ‘into the feeling’. They even simulated the smell of burning diesel and the flashes of explosions etc. The ‘therapist’ was claiming it was helpful and often got over the resistance of the person to talk about some really horrible situations.

  71. Larry says:

    I turn to the blog, in the hope it turns me around. Post-retreat and post-Christmas blahhs stirred as in the New Year I returned to regular life, deep in the heart of winter, alone. I felt on top of my game though and felt I could defeat the blahhs, until I caught a cold a couple of weeks ago.

    Breathing is difficult. It fogs my brain and drains my energy, and instead of going out, I spend more time at home alone when not at work, trying to recover but feeling more and more alone. A feeling of bleakness and futility sets in. My aloneness will never be satiated, so why try. All joy is transitory, so why try. No one can save me, so why try. Reality trumps hope. To hope is futile.

    It is amazing how bleak it can look. I can feel it’s roots in childhood. It feels like it can never be changed. I feel like no one would want me who got close to me and saw the bleakness in me.

    Going to work distracts me, calms me, but I’m beginning to see work is becoming more of a refuge than a purpose, that at work I’m hiding from life but even there my life is finding me.

    I don’t know where I’m going any more, or where I want to go. I know that the way out of this trap is to take steps forward and have fun and reach out and hope someone is there. I’m afraid to. It’s what I have to overcome, over and over and over and over, each time gaining more insight as to why it feels so difficult.

    I’m tired of it.

    I feel that sending this will make me cry.

  72. Margaret says:

    Guru,
    I relate to your question, it is one that I have asked myself various times, and I found myself pondering on it again while reading your posts.

    on one hand my own ‘answer’ so far is we have to give meaning to our life ourselves, as there seems to be no obvious meaning to it than life itself in all its forms and shapes blossoming, evolving and disappearing and starting all over again etc.

    the thought of there not being anything anymore after death, at least no conscious good old ‘me’, as our matter still exists and melts down again into this earths and cosmos’s soup to mix and mingle with new forms of life, is indeed at first sight well, discouraging?

    but on the other hand it feels also liberating, life being its own reward,a unique personal one time journey to be savoured by your very own unique form of consciousness at this evermoving moment of ‘now’.

    what you say about only hedonism being an answer, can be looked at in different ways.
    after all what makes you feel best does not seem to be forever hanging around and doing nothing.

    I find pleasure is mostly linked to achievments, small and not so small, from finally washing those dishes to passing a difficult exam to reaching out and establishing meaningful relationships to simply striving to make the best of our lifes, searching for the balance between working and struggling and being nice to ourselves and taking pleasant breaks.

    the problem is not what happens after our life, for us it is not, for those who remain it might be different as they have to cope going on without us. that to me seems where your pain resides, but of course I may be wrong.

    for me, no children, not even a partner, life tends too to lack meaning as those precious genes won’t even survive me.

    but does that make this crazy dance of matter, this infinitely complex play of atoms and electrical and magnetical and chemical bouncing and dancing particles therefor less worthwhile?

    yes and no I guess.
    when we have kids we don’t know what happens to them and their kids after we die either.
    but hey, I admit genes being passed on and surviving does make a difference and feels like a waste if not passed on.

    still, in the big scenery it is only a minute detail.

    to me that big scenery is what makes it worthwhile.

    that grand cosmos, and who knows how many there are nowadays, ha, is what is really fascinating, and being a part of it, just another form of expression of its nature and part of the dance.

    dancing that dance, try
    ying to do it nicely and pleasantly and as well as possible, is what makes me get up from my own bed, or floor.

    my cat is just one more precious form of life I share my time with, bonding now more than ever as she seems to want to be right next to me lately most of the time.

    you miss your mother terribly dear UG, and what you have and had to deal with is one of the biggest traumas that can occur, to suddenly lose your mum at that age.

    the grieving you need to go through is inconceivable to me and I can only send you my support.

    you are not entirely alone, we are here, litttle as it helps , I hope you can relate to something I said, as I do relate to your hopelessness to some degree.

    M

    • Margaret: This is going to sound hugely ironic given the apparent malaise and lack of meaning I gave to life itself, but I am going away on a trip this morning for a few days. I will give your post as much serious attention and thought as you obviously gave mine when I return. iPads don’t cut it for this sort of stuff.

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Margaret
      I am blown away by your response to UG.
      Tom

    • Leslie says:

      Margaret – your post is beautiful. It has your ever present authenticity mixed so well with meaningful, kind and tender words.
      Great to think about…
      ox L.

  73. Anonymous says:

    Yes Margaret

    Your response to UG is so beautiful, so nice, you say so much and so well with not so many words that I feel I have to put your words in a frame and hang it on one of my walls

    Miguel

  74. Margaret says:

    wow, Tom, Leslie, Miguel, thanks, your comments made me read over my own again, as I just wrote and posted it back then.
    it touches me it touched you.

    Guru,
    what I felt like adding afterwards is that having said all that, it does not mean at all I have no relationship anymore with the loved ones I lost.

    I must admit I occasionally ‘talk’ to most of them, even to longlost pets and even horses I rode, sometimes apologizing to them for not having been more caring, letting them know how much I loved and love them, and specially my dad is someone I sometimes turn to as their presence seems to be part of my system somehow.

    it does not even matter if they still ‘exist’ or not in amy way, in my mind they do and it helps me to adress them on some occasions.

    actuallly in that way they hear me or at least my dad, the dad I picture, is able to hear what I mean which makes it a kind of peaceful and healing thing to do.

    to my late husband I have said all kind of things, some angry some sad, some goodbyes.

    in that sense they all definitely live on for me.

    I hope I will live on for someone for a while when my time has come, but what matters most is I seem to have made peace with myself, which takes away a basic feeling of loneliness that was different and worse than the other kind of loneliness of misssing companionship.

    I have established contact yesterday with the social services of the blind home where i lived for a year back in ’98 and they promised me to look around for appartments in their neighborhood for rent.

    turns out I am not the only poorsighted person though searching for a place to live in that area of town so it may take a while to find something.

    thanks again for your heartwarming responses, Margaret and cat

  75. Miguel says:

    Margaret

    Very felling and moving comment sad but at the same time glad and optimistic that put my me right away in tears and reminds me of my story, Certainly animals, pets have feelings and have a feeling brain as ours. When I was studying psychology I took away with me from the laboratory a caw brain in formol. I was with it for several days.

    Miguel

  76. Miguel says:

    I meant that mammals have a feeling brain like ours

    Muiguel

  77. “Blended” with Adam Sandler and Drew Barrymore. Heart-warming. I was going to put the old dog to sleep today, because the special vet said his body was racked with lymphoma. But he responded to the prednisone so well, I couldn’t do it. Anyway, sick with a cold in L.A., staying home with the dog perhaps for the last days.

  78. thomas verzar says:

    hi
    Went down the beach for a swim being middle of summer here. I changed into my street cloths on the promenade. I noticed a little kid about 12-15 months old playing with some leaves on the sidewalk. He picked them up, carried them around and dropped them here and there. His dad was with him, watching over him and participating with him. The kid was very cute, a little boy.
    I was about ready to leave when I noticed his mum as well. I walked over to them and told her she has a very cute kid. she was taken aback. Her husband asked her in a foreign language what did I say. She translated and said that her husband doesn’t speak English yet.
    I asked her where is he from. She said Uruguay. Told her I worked with a builder from Uruguay. And while we were talking I started to stroke the kid’s fingers gently. After a few moments the kid looked up at me and offered his drink. I said , no thank you, it is all for you.
    Then I turned away as I got tearful. What made that kid react so nicely to me?

    Tom

  79. Miguel says:

    Tom,

    It is in our gens to distinguish and appreciate love around us, we are designed for that. Love is good, is health, a small child knows it intuitively, otherwise we could not survive, everything would just the same without that .You Tom, when you caressed him sent him that signal: I love you. And the child signaled.” it feels good thanks , I offer you my drink”

    Miguel

  80. Margaret, Vicki, and Patrick: I am way too overwhelmed with sensory stimuli to write anything on the blog right now. I’m not giving you the short shrift just to give you the short shrift or to spite you. I’m kind of in a state of shock over some other things and I need to go into a darkened room for a while longer.

    • Yeah I mean a dark & quiet room to reset all the glaring & blaring stimuli, slowly sort things out, and begin anew in a reorganized fashion as I leave the room once more. I will have to write back later; there is nothing more I can do here for now.

      • Patrick says:

        Guru – sounds like a ‘gambling episode’ I mean the glaring and blaring……………but I maybe I’m wrong about that anyway hope everything is ok…………….

    • Vicki says:

      No problem, U.G. I wasn’t worried about any “short shrift”. Hope you can recover as planned from the shock. See you later.

  81. I guess that last summer retreat gave me the gift of being able to cry at home. Maybe. Otherwise the severe sadness of my situation propelled me to cry about missing the old dog. Missing his bark, the early days, the middle days, and these past few years. Unfortunately, I am still unable to get the guts to put him to sleep. He is in pain, lymphoma, liver,something…unclear to me. He has pain meds. he still licks the female dog’s genitals. he can still eat, poop, pee, drink water and be held by us. he can still ride in the car to the park. I had 5 days last week with him while i had a cold. well I dont know this is fucking impossible. He and the other dogs are basically my only friends. How do you kill your friend?

    • Chris says:

      Otto, I know how hard this is. I had a similar situation with my dear car about a year and a half ago. He had some kind of blockage in his nasal passage. The vets suspected it was some kind of tumor. At one point his left eye shut completely and the vet gave me prednisone to inject. My buddy immediately responded and was doing great for about two weeks. It was like magic. But then he started to lose his balance and literally could not walk. The vet told me that it would only get worse and that I would have to make a decision. I was devastated by all of this. It has been a year and a half and I am still reeling from the decision. Maybe we could have had one more week? Maybe there was some medical intervention? I killed my best friend.
      The vet was very compassionate. He came to my apartment and killed him while I put my hand on him. It pains me to talk about this. I don’t think there is a right decision. At least not in my case. I mean “right” in the sense that one can avoid the sadness and incredible loss. And the memory of me having to trap him in the bathroom and the vet carrying him away are incredibly traumatic and will never leave me. There is nothing right about any of this.

      Otto, it is clear how much your dog means to you. I wish you and he all the best.

  82. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    I can relate to the terrible dilemma and sadness of your situation with t
    your trusting friend the dog.

    I think in your case I we
    ill also keep postponing the decision until I really have no way anymore to keep giving my cat some good times.

    she still isn’t enttirely recovered and I am afraid it will deteriorate again at some point as I can’t keep her in her t-shirt forever as it does not cover all of the wound anyway.
    it might even make her want to scratch more at some moments, but I dread risking taking it off alltogether still as the healing is still fresh and unfinisc
    hed.

    we can only do our best and try to feel what the animal wishes and longs for, you will know when the time comes and then you i
    will be doing your friend a favor, if necessary.

    he is a lucky dog to have you taking care of him.
    M

  83. Patrick says:

    Below is from a recent blog by Arthur Janov. Reading that I think hmm…………..is he ‘saying’ something here to us, is there a possible ‘double meaning’ here is he is some sense at least talking about himself and now we are “hooked, addicted to his message of promised fulfillment.”. It seems to me he might or is that giving him too much credibility in terms of being ‘self aware’ Maybe……………..one thing though I can identify a few more “Janovian Gaps” like the ‘gap’ between words and deeds, the ‘gap’ between promise and delivery, the ‘gap’ between truth and falsehood. MInd the Gap.

    “But if we are needy, a strong guru will have us genuflect before him, lose all critical faculties and believe in him devoutly. The guru needs devotees and we supply the unquestioned devotion. Once anyone else locks into our unfulfilled need we are hooked, literally. Our need is the hook; once a psychopath figures that out, he has got us. He can make us believe in the most outrageous ideas because we are hooked, addicted to his message of promised fulfillment. We are hooked by need and that is pre-potent over everything else. It is unfulfilled need that is addicting. The addiction (propensity for) is already there inside of us. We need to go deep inside of us, not dancing around the surface finding safer, less addicting pain killers; or blaming how easy it is to get drugs at pharmacies. If he have to blame we should blame the Janovian Gap; the gap between our deep imprints and our conscious/awareness.”

    • jackwaddington says:

      “Below is from a recent blog by Arthur Janov. Reading that I think hmm…………..is he ‘saying’ something here to us, is there a possible ‘double meaning’ here is he is some sense at least talking about himself ” A lot of questions … and little understanding … I gather. I thought for a moment you was referring to the ULTIMATE GURU.

      I’ve accused you of being a ‘crooked thinker’ a la Thouless before, but this caps the bending and twisting that seemingly takes place in your mind. I would suggest with a minor bachelors in philosophy you stick to that and let Arthur Janov write his stuff and we’ll see if another budding psychologist comes up and is able to proffer another psychological theory that makes at least as much sense to the rest of us, as was gleaned from those that GOT the promise … which seemingly has, eluded you.

      It’s not for me to psycho analyse you … but I get the feeling that you are bitter … from perhaps having left the relative comfort of Brixton and at great expense, traveled to Los Angeles … from which you seem also not to be able to escape.

      Jack

      • Patrick says:

        (quote) It’s not for me to psycho analyse you”…………………but you DO do it constantly ,……………(quote) “.minor bachelors in philosophy”…………..what does ‘minor’ mean and anyway since when do you ‘respect’ degrees and so on (respect anything except how ‘great’ Arthur Janov is) …………….and let’s say I am ‘bitter’ that itself is a legitimate feeling which could and should be explored in a more accepting environment……………..to me it is very ‘legitimate’ and has been very important for me to be able to express it here………………..I give Gretchen major props for that…………..unlike Janov and his ‘censored’ blog and this seemingly would be too if the Keeper of the Crypt had his way……………it has been very important to me (and my therapy if you want to use such words) to be able to ‘voice’ here I could not as a child OR at the PI the way it was set up…………….any ‘criticism’ was always pushed back to being ‘my feeling’…………..that is cult like………………..and the PI suffered enormously from that, Dr Holden becomes a Jesus Freak with no discussion or explanation, suicides rock the place……………response is “what does it mean to you” and implication being whatever it is nothing will be done about it it is somehow MY problem…………..anyway I have said all this before but it is disgusting to me to see this constant to this day ‘worshiping’ of Janov I find a lot of his blogs very questionable and that is taking them on face……………..as far as ‘behind the scenes’ who really knows……………do YOU take all his descriptions about ‘womb feelings’ for real…………………I don’t I mean I don’t deny the possibility but I think at this point Janov himself is a “mock therapist” to use his own jargon against him…………………..what comes around goes around………………primal therapy is dying read between the lines of Barry’s post here telling people to “Man Up” or even “Woman Up” is not going to get people to come to retreats…………….the Thanksgiving retreats have now been cancelled………..how long will the Summer ones go on…………..will they be cancelled too ….Barry seems to think the reason people do not want to go is they have ‘forgotten’ what a good time they had there……………I think the reason is simpler their feelings tell them something is missing a lot is missing……………………sometimes I cycle by Janov’s Centre is Santa Monica I fully expect to see a “closed” sigh one of these days……………Janov was a very flawed leader…………..the chickens come home to roost and not soon enough in my opinion……..

  84. I know I am seriously delayed in writing a response to Margaret and I don’t necessarily want to send the conversation between Jack and Patrick about Janov off the rails, but….

    ….Just for a moment…
    Facebook has a $210 billion valuation now. That is $30 for every single man, woman, and child on the planet Earth.

    This includes the 777,000 unprotected sewer workers in India who earn $5 per day crawling underneath the urban streets to unclog feces, dead dogs, and dead rats from critical drain holes:

    INDIA’S 777,000 sewer divers, each earning $5 per day and somehow they are each mysteriously contributing $30 per capita to Facebook’s valuation. That is…If you think they use the Internet (NOT!)

    So if you are having a bad day, give these sewer guys a little thought. Maybe you can find them on Facebook 😀

    • jackwaddington says:

      ……. and how does that affect you? It sure saddens me.

      As I conceive it, only the abolition of money is likely to resolve that kind of discrimination. Otherwise the Walmart family will stay ‘miserable’ with their billions.

      Does Guruism have any other notions of wisdom to extricate us from that mess?

      Jack

      • Maybe nothing should be done….

        The Indians are largely Hindus, and they believe in re-incarnation…

        Maybe the sewer workers are reincarnations of Sam Walton himself and recently deceased defense contractors who profit by the trillion$ off of war on terror hysteria?

      • Erron says:

        “only the abolition of money”

        so funny Jack, have you got another book on how to do that?

        Erron

        • jackwaddington says:

          Erron: Yes!!! something as simple as that. Since we created it; we sure could abolish it … and as I repeatedly stated, that one small factor wouold resolve 95% of all our human problems. However it takes a bit of getting ones head around the notion. Something I strongly feel, few are willing to do and dismiss the notion with little or no real DEEP thought. Also with it, would be to bypass the notion of barter also … “this for that”.

          The silly question is;- “How would it work???” Why that is a silly question is if you were to think about it, and go back into ones own early history … before the concept of “this for that” ever occurred to us. When we simply needed and hoped/expected to get it (to be loved).

          Then when we did catch on; we spent the next 20 or so years figuring out how the money/barter system works. The squirrels and the pussy cats and all other creatures never have to think out how it all works. Nature happens … it doesn’t require a financial system, banks, governments, laws, police, prisons, armies or even an engine to run it.

          All this for those few that cared to read my first book, would have seen how I proposed it. It is surprising how my first book came in for a great amount of criticism … mostly by people that had not read it. Incidentally I did did not invent the notion. There’s a whole history of people way before me that set out on the same quest; Proudhon, Marx, Engels, Kropotkin & Bakunin to name a few.

          If you don’t want to read “crazy Jack” there are plenty of others that have got better credentials than I am ever likely to get.

          Jack

  85. Margaret says:

    feel tired but also with some satisfaction today.

    mom still forgetting everything, but today she said to me she wants to stay in her house nevertheless, as she likes it and feels happy there, and she added ‘ when I am happy here, should’nt you be happy with that as well? I’d let you know anyway if it would not be the case.’

    and of course she is right..
    as long as she does not do too many dangerous things, I guess we have to endure the frustration of giving advices in vain about some practical matters, and let her be to enjoy this stage of her life the way she wants it.
    it is hard not to call her to ask her if this time she did pick up her new glasses, as she promised to do for the last week, over and over, but to let it be and wait until my brother is there who will go and get them for her.
    it trigers my feelings of unsafety to leave those things unfinished and keeps me in a worrying mood, also triggering some feelings of I guess an old struggle for control between her and me.

    but anyway, it is just a part of my daily hassles.

    cat still not entirely well, another worry.

    but hey, I finally finished the statistical analysis of the survey I had to work on.

    it was not uninteresting, a study about 8 to eleven year old kids, in three different schooling types, normal schooling, learning problems and educational problems.

    the student performing the survey had noticed the iq tests for the children in the chooltypes for kids with problems, where often just below the grad
    e to be allowed to further good schooling, mostly due to poorer performmances on memory tests.

    she wondered if memory training would make a difference and allow those kids to get better scores and therefor a way into proper good schooling.
    so in the survey there were five different kinds of memory tests, testing different kinds of short term and working memory, before and after memory training.

    my job was to perform all kinds of statistical analyses to check whether there were significant differences, comparing the schooltypes keeping in account ages etc., and measuring how much, if any, progress the trainng gave, and the correlation etc. t
    between different tests and iq and age.
    and then making conclusions about possible deductions and their explanations and points of attention for further research.

    about 40 tests later and their (large) outputs, several files of summarized results with their comparisons, and another file with the overview of my general procedure and the list of results and their relative conclusions, and then a summary of the summary of thirteen pages, I am done with this case, hurray!

    for the moment as in february I get together with my teacher to review it all and try a test exam about it all.

    the most satisfying thing today is solving some questions I had about some interpretation, finding the answer in the course, finally, after having read those chapters maybe seven or eight times..

    it also was an interesting research to study as the results showed quite clearly the memory training worked well pulling up the results for most kids on all the tests, but often specially for the schooltypes with initially the poorest results and actually levelling them up with the other schooltypes to a level where there was no longer any significant difference between their marks on the tests.

    so it seems clear memory training can be very useful specially in those cases, as kids are evaluated in these ways which often can make an important difference for their future options in schooling and life.

    so these applied statistics can be kind of interesting and their rules are strict and clear and the results don’t claim to be more than significant probabilities , but in such ways controllable certain conclusions can be made witout too much doubt about their relevance, even if only to indicate the importance of further examination and research.

    properly used statistics are definitely a good tool, and although it is hard work to learn how to do it, it feels good to gain more control over the matter, bit by bit.

    now the bad news is I will soon have to start all over on another set of data, again weeks, months of hard work, with a deadline to do the dreaded exam, which will only be the first of six statistics exams, ha!

    but hey, I am really starting to feel I can do it, at least this one should be possible!!
    at some point, after doing all those tests and summaries over and ove again, copying and pasting all those bits and nmbers from file to file biig sigh..

    am I boring anyone, haha, guess so , but well, feels nice to write it all out anyway, plenty of space here..

    M

  86. Margaret says:

    this was so touching.
    on the news the celebration of 70 years ago the liberation of Auschwitz, with the 300 last people now still surviving and visiting and testifying there.

    there was one Jewish man from Belgium who was interviewed he was 89 years old but very sharp, he had been moved to Buchenwald just before the liberation of Auschwitz so had to wait three more moths before getting freed on the age of nineteen.
    he said 41 members of his family got deported to the camps and they all were killed, he was the only survivor.

    when he said how hard it was to be on his own, no family anymore, no home, no place to live, no cloths no suitcase, nothing, it was so painful to imagine that kind of pain.

    then he said ‘long live Belgium, ‘union gives force’, which is the Belgian official motto, and well, he touched me deeply with the depth of his humanity, his suffering and his strength .

    i still can’t grasp the enormity of all 41 members of your family being violently wiped away out of your life, together with all your earthly belongings.
    inconceivable.

    M

    • Margaret:
      When I read your post about Auschwitz, I tried to remember my reactions towards Daniel’s presentation of the Shoa documentary early last year. I was really angry at the time because I felt that way too much attention was given to the subject already when there were plenty of other violent deaths to tend to.

      Today, though, I am a bit more subdued about it. People are going to be who they’re going to be, and I’m not going to try to change it.

      The other day I did drive by the spot where my mother almost instantly expired into nothingness. I couldn’t stop there because there are cars constantly whizzing by at 65 miles per hour only a foot or two from the scene. Downtown in a major city. In fact, it’s even too dangerous to put any sort of memorial in the spot whatsoever. The area is so heavily urbanized that it would be a dangerous distraction in itself.

      It’s a completely featureless death trap. You could have killed a lowly cockroach there and it would have left behind the same markings as my mother did in spite of all her professional accomplishments as an actual human, etc.

      Tens of thousands of cars go by the spot everyday. There is no Ground Zero there. Just….nothingness.

      Just like the Great Void of Eternal Unknowingness that awaits us all when death comes.

  87. Watching Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Nirvana. Don’t usually watch many music shows. Hospice dog on my chest, drugged out. Started crying to one of their songs, married buried something. My 2 boys and I would listen to this when we lived in Northridge, driving to their school in the morning, KROC Kevin and Beane show. Much horror and sadness in Northridge 1994, z’s mom, their grandmother died, earthquake, heat killed our chickens. Some positive, practiced with Ulton for the primal talent night. Primal talent night, a lot of talent. got to go, dog groaning since i set him down.

  88. Margaret says:

    UG,
    what was that unconscious dynamic about Daniel mentioned?
    my memory fails me here..
    M

  89. Margaret: Daniel wrote this in early September 2014:

    Since there is much talk of loss lately – Patrick and Gretchen’s moms recently and UG’s in the distant past, Larry’s Noreen, and other losses not so tangible – it reminded me of a short and beautiful paper by Freud which he wrote toward the end of the Great War (as it was called before we began to number them) in 1916. It’s a bit longer than our average comment but I think you may like it.

    On Transience / Sigmund Freud
    NOT long ago I went on a summer walk through a smiling countryside in the company of a taciturn friend and of a young but already famous poet. The poet admired the beauty of the scene around us but felt no joy in it. He was disturbed by the thought that all this beauty was fated to extinction, that it would vanish when winter came, like all human beauty and all the beauty and splendour that men have created or may create. All that he would otherwise have loved and admired seemed to him to be shorn of its worth by the transience which was its doom.

    The proneness to decay of all that is beautiful and perfect can, as we know, give rise to two different impulses in the mind. The one leads to the aching despondency felt by the young poet, while the other leads to rebellion against the fact asserted. No! it is impossible that all this loveliness of Nature and Art, of the world of our sensations and of the world outside, will really fade away into nothing. It would be too senseless and too presumptuous to believe it. Somehow or other this loveliness must be able to persist and to escape all the powers of destruction.
    But this demand for immortality is a product of our wishes too unmistakable to lay claim to reality: what is painful may none the less be true. I could not see my way to dispute the transience of all things, nor could I insist upon an exception in favour of what is beautiful and perfect. But I did dispute the pessimistic poet’s view that the transience of what is beautiful involves any loss in its worth.

    On the contrary, an increase! Transience value is scarcity value in time. Limitation in the possibility of an enjoyment raises the value of the enjoyment. It was incomprehensible, I declared, that the thought of the transience of beauty should interfere with our joy in it. As regards the beauty of Nature, each time it is destroyed by winter it comes again next year, so that in relation to the length of our lives it can in fact be regarded as eternal. The beauty of the human form and face vanish for ever in the course of our own lives, but their evanescence only lends them a fresh charm. A flower that blossoms only for a single night does not seem to us on that account less lovely. Nor can I understand any better why the beauty and perfection of a work of art or of an intellectual achievement should lose its worth because of its temporal limitation. A time may indeed come when the pictures and statues which we admire to-day will crumble to dust, or a race of men may follow us who no longer understand the works of our poets and thinkers, or a geological epoch may even arrive when all animate life upon the earth ceases; but since the value of all this beauty and perfection is determined only by its significance for our own emotional lives, it has no need to survive us and is therefore independent of absolute duration.

    These considerations appeared to me incontestable; but I noticed that I had made no impression either upon the poet or upon my friend. My failure led me to infer that some powerful emotional factor was at work which was disturbing their judgment, and I believed later that I had discovered what it was. What spoilt their enjoyment of beauty must have been a revolt in their minds against mourning. The idea that all this beauty was transient was giving these two sensitive minds a foretaste of mourning over its decease; and, since the mind instinctively recoils from anything that is painful, they felt their enjoyment of beauty interfered with by thoughts of its transience.
    Mourning over the loss of something that we have loved or admired seems so natural to the layman that he regards it as self-evident. But to psychologists mourning is a great riddle, one of those phenomena which cannot themselves be explained but to which other obscurities can be traced back. We possess, as it seems, a certain amount of capacity for love—what we call libido—which in the earliest stages of development is directed towards our own ego. Later, though still at a very early time, this libido is diverted from the ego on to objects, which are thus in a sense taken into our ego. If the objects are destroyed or if they are lost to us, our capacity for love (our libido) is once more liberated; and it can then either take other objects instead or can temporarily return to the ego. But why it is that this detachment of libido from its objects should be such a painful process is a mystery to us and we have not hitherto been able to frame any hypothesis to account for it. We only see that libido clings to its objects and will not renounce those that are lost even when a substitute lies ready to hand. Such then is mourning.

    My conversation with the poet took place in the summer before the war. A year later the war broke out and robbed the world of its beauties. It destroyed not only the beauty of the countrysides through which it passed and the works of art which it met with on its path but it also shattered our pride in the achievements of our civilization, our admiration for many philosophers and artists and our hopes of a final triumph over the differences between nations and races. It tarnished the lofty impartiality of our science, it revealed our instincts in all their nakedness and let loose the evil spirits within us which we thought had been tamed for ever by centuries of continuous education by the noblest minds. It made our country small again and made the rest of the world far remote. It robbed us of very much that we had loved, and showed us how ephemeral were many things that we had regarded as changeless.

    We cannot be surprised that our libido, thus bereft of so many of its objects, has clung with all the greater intensity to what is left to us, that our love of our country, our affection for those nearest us and our pride in what is common to us have suddenly grown stronger. But have those other possessions, which we have now lost, really ceased to have any worth for us because they have proved so perishable and so unresistant? To many of us this seems to be so, but once more wrongly, in my view. I believe that those who think thus, and seem ready to make a permanent renunciation because what was precious has proved not to be lasting, are simply in a state of mourning for what is lost. Mourning, as we know, however painful it may be, comes to a spontaneous end. When it has renounced everything that has been lost, then it has consumed itself, and our libido is once more free (in so far as we are still young and active) to replace the lost objects by fresh ones equally or still more precious. It is to be hoped that the same will be true of the losses caused by this war. When once the mourning is over, it will be found that our high opinion of the riches of civilization has lost nothing from our discovery of their fragility. We shall build up again all that war has destroyed, and perhaps on firmer ground and more lastingly than before.

  90. Margaret says:

    I am so scared.
    my brother came by before he went to our mom.
    at some point he went to have a look at my cat, he seems to be the only one she is not afraid of although she is not used to him at all, so he could have a close look to her.

    he said the wound does not look good despite it being mostly crusts and not an open wet wound now, and what is worse, he confirmed what I had already started to notice, that she has lost a lot of weight lately.
    he said I had to go back to the vet as soon as possible..

    it is so scary, what will happen then, what kind of examinations will they do, they mentioned a biopsy for which they’d have to anesthesize her, and what then?

    I am inclined to postpone going and to keep trying to fix her with changing from letting her lick and the wound dry to the air while she is onmy lap, and shifting to putting cream on it to desinfect and then also having periods I let her wear the shirt so she does not scratch it all open, but I guess I should call the vet on monday and have her checked anyway before she gets really ill.

    so scary, to imagine she has a serious disease or an incurable something, such a dreadful dreadful idea, I want her to be fine, feel safe, happy, near me, I don’t want to lose her, certainly not in a way that increases her distress.
    so scared, she is so sweet and afffectionate lately, keeps coming to me for reassurance and help and company ..

    brother was sweet, he has problems with his cat as well who has the same age.

    so sad and scared Ican’t think further right now than ‘it will be ok’…

    don’t want to.
    M

  91. Margaret:
    Your post shows me why I could never want to own a pet in the foreseeable future. Too many complications arising already as it is for me with actual humans themselves getting killed.

    I realize pet ownership is very important here, so all I can do is wish them the best in their current travails with their furry friends.

  92. And this is specifically for Patrick:

    Patrick: You and I both like Jim Kunstler….I wrote him a letter recently. Just to make sure Kunstler might not think I was crazy, I asked Gretchen for a mental hygiene check. She gave me a clean bill of mental health.

    I stole your phrase “casual brutality” that you once used on the blog when you yourself said life was cheap. I credit you for this phrase I swiped.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Hello Mr. Kunstler:

    Your books foretelling a Malthusian scarcity without oil scare the hell out of me sometimes. Below I explain why your predictions of people being turned into homicidal lunatics in the face of food and oil shortages scare me so much…

    I would like to draw your attention to one horrible aspect of Happy Motoring of which I am sure you have at least a subliminal awareness.

    One super smart, very passionate lady named Lisa Lewis took a serious stand on traffic fatalities in 2006 with a meticulously researched book,
    “It’s No Accident: The Real Story Behind Senseless Death and Injury on Our Roads” .

    AMAZON.COM It’s No Accident

    Mrs. Lewis writes:

    “Perhaps dying in a car crash has become such a common occurrence in America that many people, including our elected officials, have come to equate it with dying of natural causes.
    But make no mistake. It is anything but natural. Such deaths usually are extremely violent, characterized by massive brain injury, broken bones, severed limbs, ruptured internal organs, and enormous blood loss. Frequently people who are fatally injured in crashes suffer multiple injuries and arrive at the morgue looking like they’ve just come from a battlefield rather than a trip to the supermarket or the mall. I have even known families whose loved ones were decapitated in crashes.”

    Just to point out the sheer scale of the high-velocity, economic battlefield of our highway system it is estimated that 500,000 Americans will have lost their lives in the above-described manner spanning the period from 9/11 to the end of 2014. Half a million! How did such casual brutality become so morally acceptable on America’s own home soil? The answer for me is very simple and traces back to my original fear of your own books, Mr. Kunstler. Our 3,000-pound motor vehicles are so indispensable to the everyday lives of comparatively frail 180-pound humans that we may have no choice but to become homicidal lunatics ourselves without them.

    Happy Motoring & Merry Christmas:

    The Ultimate Guru

    • Patrick says:

      Guru – I just came across this which seems oddly apt to some of what you are talking about

      “Atmospheric oxygen, the element needed by all of us to breathe and exist, is wastefully consumed during the explosion process in an internal combustion engine. An average car, driven at 30 mph consumes about 750 times the amount of oxygen needed by a human being”

      and this…………….

      “n nature there are virtually no straight forms moving fluids, and whenever possible, vortices, spirals and curves are produced to reduce resistance in fluid dynamics. Think of arteries, as an example. Yet in conventional technology moving fluids, explosion/combustion and straight motion are employed, both of which increase resistance and temperature and are fundamentally against nature’s mechanisms in every living thing”

      all of which kind of points out cars etc are ‘un-natural’ but you know all that all ready.I have another thought about/for you also…………

    • Patrick says:

      Guru – this was the other thought……………

      “You cannot base identity on the Holocaust (in your case your mother’s death you own ‘holocaust’ you might say) without internalizing its aggression, because you cannot take in one without the other. This creates a trauma bond, which bonds the victim not to the aggressor, but to his aggression.

      I think this notion of a ‘trauma bond’ is quite important and a real danger so to speak………………..

      • Patrick:

        I totally get what you are saying about the “trauma bond” aspect, where I don’t want to have something like this define my whole life. Something like that would only add to my problems .

        It’s just that…..well….no one else was going to speak up for me here, though. What else could possibly be done but to research this own my own and to finally have my insights matured to this current level? Lisa Lewis’ book I mentioned above is just about the only definitive work that compassionately covers what affected my own life so much. I owe her an enormous debt of gratitude even though I’ve only contacted her a couple of times.

        Believe me, I would have loved to have had a government agency come up to me in college and explain to me all I know now. I would have done things drastically differently than I did and not be saddled with so much regret over bad decisions I made in my younger years.

        A lot of my anger on this is paired with regret over some utterly stupid and reckless financial and vocational life decisions I made based on absolutely no information at all pertaining to the wreckage and gravity of what I faced in my early childhood.

        Would it have been so damn hard for the military-industrial complexes of the world to inform kiddies that lose their parents to the machinery that they themselves created of the human consequences involved?

        I suppose it is….

        • Patrick says:

          I am ‘glad’ you get the ‘trauma bond’ aspect……………..what strikes me though is you still ‘beat yourself up’ about a lot of things especially ‘decisions’ you have made………….I have suffered a LOT from some similar things but the thing is you always (by definition) did the best or made the best decisions based on the information and understanding you had at the time. I have ‘worked’ at accepting myself and ALL the ‘decisions’ I have made because they are ME and I find that process very helpful. It is like ‘owning’ myself after all the ‘non-owning’ I was subject to. Nobody (much) ‘owned’ me nobody wanted me (much) as ‘Theirs’ so I can now only ‘own’ myself so to speak.

          Regret can cripple your life, Tom has spoken here about that too and the odd thing is primal therapy CAN make that problem worse (No need to freak out Jack any of this kind of talk is not an ‘attack’ on you though you are likely to interpret it that way…………primal therapy is ‘perfect’ are you ok now settle down little boy the world is working and it is ‘safe’ for you spin all your ‘theories’ you would ‘deem’ a head trip if someone else said them). But seriously Guru……………….’regret’ is a son-of-a-bitch and my conclusion is to help get over it or out from under it it is important to find a source of pleasure and well being…………….subjecting it to the ‘classic primal process’ can very often make things worse……………

          • Patrick: Based on my past talks with Gretchen, she seems to agree with you that regrets are a waste of time. I know of another Primal person who disagrees with this, so I am neutral here. From a strictly third-person perspective, regrets may be a waste of time yet there may be overwhelming feelings and sadness, remorse and loss that must be looked at…

  93. Miguel says:

    Margaret
    I am sorry about the health of your cat.

  94. Miguel says:

    Jack,
    I can understand your concern about the future of humanity, whowever I do not share with you that the prohibition of money would fix many things, in fact it could be counterproductive.

    In times of crisis it is easy to insist in totalitarians, ( be it from any sign) collectivist solutions that have failed in the past , as is happening right now in Europe and that means the individual loses his privacy, freedom, in the hands of a state, party, unique and totalitarian. We see this in the film Doctor Zhivago, based on the Russian book of poet Boris Pasternak . In this sense the feelings and primal therapy would not occur. In fact Novel Prize winner Boris Pasternak have tremendous difficulties just to express his feelings and novels. He was persecuted one way or another. In one part of this movie that recreates de Russian Revolution of 1917 , this idea of loosing of privacy is expressed.

    If we consider Freud, theories of dynamic psychotherapy and more specifically the Primal Therapy, we see that there are unconscious forces of the past make us who we are in the present. For Freud defenses were necessary for Primal Terapy, is a neurotic added that stains not only individual lives but also the collective, so the urge to find symbolic , unrealistic and totalitariams solutions, that are so close to religions solutions for dayly problems and emerge again and again whenever there is a crisis.

    More primary than money, even that food, is love. We are made, designed to love and be loved especially during critical periods such as childhood.
    Then Jack is not money but what we do with it. Money is just a tool, what is important is the human being. Everything Janov spoke of meeting a symbolic way for this unmet needs of children fit in the problem and its solution.

    Dialectics is a universal law that governs life: love, hate,; night, day. The historical / dialectical materialism have spoken both Hegel and then was very poorly applied by Marx, and marxist followers, in the sense that in the dialectic (polarity) individual-society, the individual was reduced almost to nothing, a mere tool in the hands of a party state. Even the same Russians saw this as a horror of nature, since the individual needs stimulation, a freedom not only of thought but also economic.

    In this sense Janov has warned us on the misuse of dialectical / historical materialism in the sense that the individual-society polarity is too inclined in these communist/totalitarian societies towards society. So I thing Janov think warned us about the possibility of misuse of primal therapy, not only in its own interest, but as we all know primal therapy is based dialectical / historical materialism: the polarity between the past of the individual and his present. If you tilt the scales one way or another we are diverting. In this sense to prohibit money would not be a good solution in a “primal” sense, because we go to the symptom, not the cause of the problem of humanity: lack of love that distorts everything. However I believe that some social action is also needed in society. For example prohibiting the death penalty is inhumane, bullfights: inhumane. But we do know that these problems are not the cause but a symptom of a sick society.

    In this sense I think it’s great polarity established between the group and the individuals who attend the summer retreat primal Institute in Santa Barbara. A balance between respect for the individual and the power of the group. And the attention to the detais . This to me should be the balance between the individual and society. And it seems to me great.

    Anything searching just social engineering will fail.
    Miguel

    • jackwaddington says:

      Miguel: You do not have to share my concerns about humanity: What I asked you (and others) to do was to NOT come up with all the cleched answers to the abolition of all those things that we humans created … since we became neurotic. Nuerosis has a very debilitating effect on our thinking and the resulting ideas, from that deranged brain that took place in the womb and/or very early childhood … before we had words and much less concepts.

      Neither am I advocating (in any sense) rule by dictators. I am for the total abolition of all RULERS (and that includes parents with their children) It needs for anyone reading this to STOP for one moment … and just think (for a while) what would be the effect; of just that. An excercise which, I feel, eludes most of us. What I AM suggesting is that because that was the way that one was RULED over (mommy and daddy) in those very fagile and delicate moments of our early existence … we had little option BUT tho “buy” into it. To give up on that, we “bought into”, at the time … we had little or few options.

      Hence reversing the process means giving up on ‘most of all the rules’ that were laid upon us … deemed education. Most are totally unable to do just that ,,, too frightening … too disturbing and way way too radical. We seemingly love our knowledge; BUT does it serve us???

      Learing is simple natural and normal. Being taught is complex, unnatural and abnormal. Just relating to this one notion might help the few to cross that line (rubicon) and see a whole new way of being … and hence co-operating, as opposed to competing.

      Miguel: suggesting that we are losing our freedom is to suggest that we have it. We never did … from the moment we became fully neurotic At that point we bought into the whole concept of (I repeat) finacial systems, banks, the need to be governed and the creation of lawa to make governing WORK, policing to force us into obeying, prisons to scare the fuck out of us if we did not obey … and then a military to make sure everyone one else on the planet did it our way. Money is NOT a tool but a stupid concept in the hope to control the ‘other guy’. Having designated the need for that “control” then we need the whole apparatus to make it work … that seemingly is rapidly falling apart The alternative is:- “Nature happens”.

      The Russian revolution DID not create the communist system envisioned by Marx et al. My argument with Marx is that he belerved there was a way to eventuate anarchy. Anarchy (without hierachy) has to evolve and any attempt by anyone to guide it will inevitable fail by it’s very nature … since communism requires, at best, a “benevelant” dictator. A contradiction in terms.

      Lastly, as I see it and read it, Primal Theory put to rest fianlly and for all time; Freudian and all subsiqunt psychological theories before it. Primal Theory has it’s very own dynamic implications … that I attempted to express in my first book. I obviously did not have, whatever it took, to put across my years of ideas, thinking and revelations. However, on reading “The Primal Scream” all my notions and feeling fell into place … and I have never looked back since.

      Jack

      • Patrick says:

        “and I have never looked back since”………..kind of highlights my conceit that primal therapy ‘worked’ for you exactly because you never ‘did’ it…….good for you I suppose meanwhile the rest of us are bogged down or mostly have been trying to ‘do’ it……………I have a feeling it ‘worked’ for Janov for similar reasons which shows ‘hypocrisy’ can have it’s advantages………………..one rule for the “Upper Class” another for the stupid plebs…………..Jewish and British ‘hypocrisy’ should be handled very carefully………….they can do you in especially Irish naivety and ‘sincerity’…………………….

        • jackwaddington says:

          “I have suffered a LOT ” Sounds like you still are … but then I take it you did try to do Primal Therapy … least-ways plonked down the money and then waited and waited and waited. Your seeming bitterness againt ‘Primal anything’ must really hurt. Mmmmmm???

          Not “freaking” … yet!!! unless having fun constitutes freaking. Oh!!! perhaps you are referring to what the hippies called themselves … “Freaks” Yeah I was one of those … freaking all the way over Ibiza island for the best ten years of my life.

          Meantime, I suppose all the wisdom you shovel around on the blog, and especially to UG that you feel he desperately needs … even though he purports to be The Guru,

          Freak Jack

          • Mr. Freak Jack:

            The way I see it: It is better to have advice given to you with the option to freely reject it than to not have the advice given out for consideration at all, and to simply leave the person being advised to completely fumble in the dark.

            I place a qualifier here: The person giving the advice must not feel offended if the advice is rejected, so that the person being advised can feel totally safe in rejecting the advice given. Only if such a state of emotional sanguinity is not possible with the advisor, should advice strictly not be given.

            There is my freakishly superb pearl of wisdom for you today, Mr. Freak Jack!

            • jackwaddington says:

              Giving advice signifies one is operating from ones own brain waves (experience) which in Primal terms suggest that the adviser is trying to brain wash the advisee. A dangerous notion I would say. If I can’t figure out what I need to do and know then all else is useless mumbo Jumbo. Hoiwever if you don’t mind it being slung at you good for you … by whatever token you take to utilize it.

              Jack

              • thomas verzar says:

                Hi
                I really don’t want to buy into the discussion on Communism, other than to say that I was and am a product of it. I was born in a communist country and lived there till nearly fourteen years of age.
                I was brainwashed. All for one, and one for all. I may have mentioned it before that when we were finally allowed to leave the country, for a price of course ( let’s not forget the communists were and are to this day, great mercenaries), I wanted to go to New York and liberate my uncle and his family from those ” bad capitalists”.
                It took me years to slowly abandon the idea of a communist state. As I started to grow up, I realised the contempt human life was held in and still is, in all communist states. there is no freedom. people are generally finding it very difficult to make a living. There are ‘no feelings in such a state’.
                It is really all for the STATE. which of course is run by a few, merciless and callous individuals, with a smile on their face hugging babies and their mothers.
                No matter how imperfect our western society is, it is millions of miles better, than communism.
                Our society will never be perfect. We live in different continents, and have different climates. Various groups of people have different experiences and hence will SAFEGUARD their offspring their own particular manner.
                I may be way of the course here, but in my humble opinion, there is no state of utter bliss, NIRVANA.
                You just cope with life the best way you can. We take advantage of the man’s genius and participate in therapy. If, and when you think, that it may not be working for you, there are countless remedies to take advantage of. I leave that to your imagination.
                Have a great debate.
                Tom

                • jackwaddington says:

                  Tom: What you say in this comment I am almost in total agreement with. What I have said and will continue to say is that a “Communist State” as conceived by Karl Marx NEVER existed, or was created. What was created was a Socialist Capitalism. Perhaps the nearest I have ever heard of a near non-capitalist state of affairs is:- the Israeli Kibbutz. However … even there the dependence on some form of exchange and of money still existed … as far as I am aware.

                  What I want to debate:- Is there the possibility of Primal Man (a total feeling-full being) to be the universal nature (as opposed to our current state of “behavior”?) … viz a viz neurosis.

                  To sum up for this response I would like to see that NO-ONE has ANY CONTROL over any other person… be it a child, elderly person, cripple, either physically or mentally. Only then might we realize the meaning of Nirvana. (Nirvana is not; as I understand it, a state of happiness or even contented-ness, but a permanent state of ‘feeling and expressing it freely’) … feeling every thing that happens to us and around us.

                  Jack

  95. Margaret says:

    Miguel, thanks!
    Guru,
    as huge as the pain can be when a pet gets ill and things go wrong, it would not give credit to the value of the friendship with that pet and its own particular special character and beauty to make the unavoidable pain of the goodbye prevail on the value of the good times that have been shared, the privilege of an animal giving you its trust and affection.

    this cat of mine was a k
    kitten of a stray cat that one day wandered into someone’s life, just entering their house, a very pregnant cat mommy, to just be welcomed there and have her beautiful lt
    litter.

    I specially chose a cat there as it was raised in a loving environment so more able to r
    trust and to be happy with people.

    losing a friend or relative is so very painful, but would that make one wish not to have known the person and not to have felt the warmth of the relationship?

    but I also understand your point very well Guru, and respect it, I really do, I am merely speaking for myself here, while I dread what might come, I still want to cherish the moments shared.
    have to stop now, cat needs attention.
    M

    • Margaret: You asked a very good question here, “losing a friend or relative is so very painful, but would that make one wish not to have known the person and not to have felt the warmth of the relationship?”

      Well, of course not! It’s just that I’ve never really felt that a pet was right for me. I don’t mind stopping by peoples’ houses and pet their pets and so forth….
      Maybe if I was completely alone in the world (which is actually not far off for me), and I had limited mobility or a serious vision or hearing impairment….then, yes, I would reconsider a pet for companionship.

      I very much understand why you would want a pet, Margaret, and I have no problem at all with others wanting pets. All I ask is they don’t sit a barking dog next to my bedroom! It really ruins my sleep so badly…

      • As an aside…..Man, I really feel the ‘aloneness’ bug tonight. I feel emotionally aching all over the surface of my upper body and there’s nothing I can immediately do to improve that. I don’t talk about these things nearly as much as Larry does, but it hits me hard sometimes, too, yeah…yeah…

        Yes, I just feel it and let it run its course like a poison. It has often been said that bad feelings in the Primal-sphere give way to joy or some form of rapture. Maybe that’s true in some way in the long run, but in most immediate instances it just feels really bad and sucky for a while, finally giving way to neutral feelings once more.

  96. Margaret says:

    I have to contact the vet for an apointment first thing tomorrow.
    cat scratches again, and also peed where she should not pee.

    at some point I decided to just take off her shirt and allow her to feel free as there might be no remedy, but after
    a while I could not stand hearing her scratch herself open on the spots of those healing wounds to the point of bleeding.

    I let her lick and clean herself for quite a while but then thought putting a fresh shirt on her again might break through the cycle of itching and scratching and indeed it did help a little.

    was up to put sheets in washing machine in middle of night, and putting freshly washed duvet back outside to dry and to take again to launderettee on monday.

    felt so bad and worried but could not be angry at cat of course.

    put clean sheets on bed and thick sleeping bag as cover, and she slept the rest of the night on top of me and right next to me.

    I did cry a few times, the first time imaginging being at the vet faced with the question to put her to sleep or not, and asking the vet if she could first give the cat something to make her feel good, maybe an opiate, so she would not have to die feeling scared.

    feel like crying again writing this.

    I cried hard, and it was a nice surprise to feel afterwards how much relief the crying had given me. for a while, until the next crying came. a few of those, and now I spend the day making my cat feel good, feeding her food she loves, giving her some more cortisone to help her feel more at ease, even put another litter box with different sand next to the old one in case maybe she is allergic to the new kind of sand or whatever, hoping it will also help to avoid another c
    accident on the bed.

    thing is she does not seem to suffer too much apart of the occasional attacks of itching, which only happen two or three times in 24 hours and only last say fifteen minutes, only licking included..

    all of this just to say I am scared and already hurt at e
    the dread of what might come, and at the hardship of the decisions to make, having to take her to the vet again, and then try another cure or not etc.

    regretted for years feeling I put a dog to sleep too soon, and don’t want to make the same mistake again.

    so now at least I am already consciously trying to give my cat as much quality time as possible.

    as Chrus said, there is no right answer to these questions.
    just sadness and hurt and crying until the acute stressful a
    pain diminishes to grieving and missing , feel like crying again.

  97. Miguel says:

    Jack you wrote,
    “The Russian revolution DID not create the communist system envisioned by Marx et al. My argument with Marx is that he belerved there was a way to eventuate anarchy. Anarchy (without hierachy) has to evolve and any attempt by anyone to guide it will inevitable fail by it’s very nature … since communism requires, at best, a “benevelant” dictator. A contradiction in terms.”

    Bakunin, anarchist and rival in the inspiration of the International, found the objective of Marxists was “a powerful centralized state.” He believed that the revolution had to start in the individual, though he was in favor of collectivism, he realized how important was the individual person was in all that.

    Karl Popper , a philosopher ot science in The Open Society and Its Enemies analyzed what he calls ‘Marxist prophecies’, in his opinion contradicted by history. Popper also wrote a critical essay with the ‘claims’ of Marxism as a science of history, considering incurring what he calls’ historicism.

    The starting point of Marx is a reversal of the Hegelian dialectic. If, for Hegel, the subject of the story is ‘consciousness’, ‘spirit’, for Marx is the material activity of man tending to their needs. The means of production. That also changed the point from the consciousness of men to something outside them: the means of production, Both aspects are obviously close related, but in the case of Marx and their marxist followers, they left behing the individual consciuosunes and focused too much on the society and looking foward a protetariat distatorship where the individual has nothing to play, a new kind of slavery. I cann´t see any dialectic in marxism , only a protetariat dictatorship.

    I do not know much about Mijail Bakunin, but for the little I know , he in one hand defended individualism and on the other hand colectivism , so hear you are, you have the two sides of the dialectics.

    Miguel

    • jackwaddington says:

      Miguel:
      I certainly agree that Marx did a great Job of seeing it all in a historical context and hence coining the word “Capitalism”. Thereafter, as I see and read Marx, was that he attempted to formulate a way to bring it about. It was just that, that has befuddled every ‘anarchist’ before and since. How do you get a “critical mass” of the people to see the utter stupidity of current “Capitalism”, that we created, and which imprisoned ourselves? Therein is the conundrum. It was not until the advent of Primal Theory that I saw any hope or direction for that to happen. However, the same applies to a “critical mass” seeing our own neurotic behavior; as behavior, and NOT our nature.

      There is enough evidence, even among Primal people, as I see it, to demonstrate that most are not interested in the theory behind it. I concur with that. I personally do so, because that is who I am.

      For a new inner consciousness to emerge, which every one accepts, but without considering just what that new consciousness is … as I conceive it Hence I set out (from my own being; as was my won’t.) to see if there was another way that might facilitate an understanding of the deeper consciousness … or, put another way … to connect the unconscious to the conscious. I came up with the notion (perhaps stupidly, or from some deep craziness on my part). that the “abolition of money” might; just might effect that. However, I do have to admit that all this is of my own thinking (‘head tripping’ if you like), over many years.

      To put this into another context. If indeed we are “Prisoners of Our Own Pain?” … removing the shackles of that PAIN could be achieved by the abolition of that, that does the most to shackle us. However, if you still feel that “money” is “a tool to be used”, then as I see it, you are trapped into a box … of your own making. But then, who the fuck am I to even assume that it is a ‘box’ … and that secondly you ‘created’ it … in your current consciousness. It is not a long shot to assume that I am in my own DENIAL.

      Jack

  98. Larry says:

    Almost two weeks ago I wrote here about how bleak life felt. Writing here was the first steps out of the bleakness. After writing I made a couple of phone calls to two different friends, but they weren’t home. In the days that followed they phoned me back and we had good conversations. A third friend surprised me with a phone call. I made myself go to ballroom dance class, and it was fun. I went to a ballroom dance workshop on Saturday and again on Sunday that weekend. It was a lot of fun and I felt this close to being able to have a fun, full life if only I would stop holding myself back. Primal feelings came up.

    I cried disturbing insights finally a relief to open my eyes to. I cried for my parents to love me so I wouldn’t be so alone, but I saw it was no use. They were unable to give me any. They never knew love. They didn’t know what it was. They didn’t know how. They had no parental intuition of what I needed. There never was any for me and never could be from them, no matter who or how I was or what I did. I sort of knew that intuitively, instinctively back them, but couldn’t let myself be conscious of it. It was too overwhelming to know consciously when I was 3 or 4 that in this imperfect life, I was born to parents incapable of parenting and that for eternity my empty plight was dismissed by cold indifferent reality. I had to suppress what I subconsciously knew. I had to feel it was my fault I wasn’t loved, and if I could change somehow, then I would be.

    It is a relief after decades of running and hiding, to finally stop running and awaken and see. But now that I let the truth in, I feel more alone than ever. I’m glad for this blog, for someone to hear and bear witness, glad that you real people are out there, as all along since I was 3 or 4 I dared to hope that there would be, that there had to be some real people out there.

    I wish you lived closer by.

  99. Would have liked to express myself tonite, but now too tired. Tears come up listening to story of the doors on the radio,Aquarius the water bearer is hard at work this month with my tears doors are very significant to my teenhood 1967 memories. Wanted to tell Kid Chemist my story of the doors, but z had something to say, and so i said nothing. anyway, vet took a large handful of crap out of the hospice dog via enema, now he feels better so he did not get put to sleep yet. Z is feeling horrible about the whole dog episode and overwhelmed with her new semester of online school. As usual, my support of her is minimal, maybe because i feel that her support of me and my needs remains, as usual, minimal. Too bad. so sorry. nothing to be done. i am tired and i have to go to work in the morning, stayed home 2 weeks for the dog. anhhhh L, who saved our alcoholic kids lives, sold his sober living (dean martin’s house) and is going to be permanently in boonesville, but z can still text him. there is a lot of memories in dean’s house and I hope his ghost will like the new tenants.

  100. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    I can relate to your taking care of the dog as long as possible, glad you gave him some relief.

    have been crying a lot about cat, she scratched herself completely open when at night I tried to go without the suit as she was so quiet I thought she might be about to die.

    but she regained energy and is full of blood now, pieces of tissue dangling.

    I made appointments with vet but cat hid under bed so might be for tomorrow, won’t go and chase her from under there, she must be safe here or feel safe at least.
    she still eats and drinks, and at night when I was sitting next to her, she still with suit on but for hours and hours on pillow, she purred when I touched her gently.

    all iI can do is cry and do my best to deal with this.

    feel little support from the blog, so be it, at least you have mine.
    right now my brother seems to be the only one calling me, feel so sad.M

  101. Margaret says:

    took cat to vet, expecting the worst, crying couple of times.
    they said despite still being bad I had managed still to get another part of the wound to heal, and they proposed a biopsy and further treatment.
    results can take one or two weeks and then it remains to be decided which treatment to try instead of actual desinfecting etc.

    should be able to pick cat back up later today unless things would go wrong with anesthesia but at least it is not all hopeless for the moment, I really let it up to them to decide whether it was still useful to go on.

    cat is so sweet, I notice how much my presence sooths her specially when I hold or caress her head, but could not join them for the operation, will have to go back and continue the intensive caretaking for another while.

    at least the professionals seemed to back up that option so I don’t need to ask myself anymore if I am taking a wrong decision in continuing to fight to make her better.

    they will look for certain bacteria or a specific allergy and hopefully find the cause we need to deal with, or find a way to let it heal before she scratches it open again.

    poor cat is a fighter, she was groaning but just expressing herself as she was sweet and cooperative when touched.

    all of this affects and triggers me big time, but feels ok to do what feels right to do and to accept the feelings.

    by the way, Guru, what you replied and said about regret needing to be looked at to uncover the underlying feelings made so much sense, the feelings you mentioned are so very real and important to face and process.

    I know, experience, have a few things I regret, rightfully so, as being older and wiser allows oneself to see and understand foolish decisions from one’s past, and also mistakes where a choice was made knowing at the time it might not be a good choice but taking the easy way.

    so that is something to regret, to have been careless in the sense of not doing what should be done out of laziness or whatevver selfish short therm indulgence and lack of character.

    I do have compassion for myself and for the one I was back then, living with my pain without being able to process it other than to cover it up, but that does not mean there is no regret, mostly also for the pain inflicted on others.

    it is useful to allow oneself to regret and feel what it implies and I am very happy with you pointing that out so eloquently Guru, thanks.

    feel hyper still M

  102. Margaret says:

    we are both exhausted but happy to be back home together!

    the dermatologist happened to be there when the biopsy was taken, and she immmediately had a look at it and saw some bacteria she suspected to be resistant. so cat will get a newer kind of antibiotics.

    also her kind of longterm allergy tends to suddenly spread to another allergenic substance so also her allergy medication has changed to another form of cortisone.

    a tighter ‘suit’ and more cream and a new appointment next week with the dermatologist and a lot of taking care and hoping for the best!!!

    on the way home, as she had not been able to visit the litter tray all day, she peed in the travelling box, and by the time I arrived home with the taxi we were both half soaked, so immediately out of the box into a dry towel and the nursing had started again..

    now she is next to me on the couch on top of an old pillow and another towel so the rest odour of pee won’t spread and invite her to use improper spots for improper purposes in the future..

    right after coming home she ran up to me and started sharpening her claws in my sneaker, a clear sign of affection she gives me after a nice meal or just for the sake of it from time to time, like a cat hug or a cat cuddle, smiley..

    a lot of emotions after a long night and day so off to bed soon.

    I know there was some support from the blog for me too but well, on black moments all seems all the more hopeless, doesn’t it?

    really needed some support and got it too from various persons.

    am glad the vets were so unanimous in continuing the treatment.

    cat also hopped right to her water and food tray after arriving, a good sign.

    she can’t eat too much now after the operation but a little bit is fine.

    so off to a new stretch of the path we shared for the last ten years!

    have to put my pants with rest of laundry first, got pee on them, plenty of laundry by now, but life is good again despite harsh winter weather.

    have to put one kind of medication into her food with a syringe for measurement, but thought in time of asking the vet to put a mark on the lever. she wanted to stick something on it but it occurred to me that would not work as it would not be possible to push the lever in past the mark, so I suggested she cut a tiny scratch in the lever I can feel for the right measure to suck up from the bottle, and that should work. asked for a spare syringe with a mark, better be prepared.

    so yeeeah, tired but still some adrenaline circulating seemingly as I keep babbling on, haha!

    tiny beautiful little fighter cat is still with me, hurray!
    goodnight and sweet dreams.
    M and cat

  103. Miguel says:

    Margaret ,
    I am happy for you, and your cat
    Miguel

  104. Margaret says:

    Miguel,
    thanks!!
    it is such a pleasure to see her circling around me hungry this morning and then munching up her food with great appetite, while the two new kinds of medication are mixed into it.

    she seems more energetic already, and has slept quietly all nigt.

    after breakfast will have to put cream on her wounds, and a second time tonight.

    the new jacket is a lot tighter than the other ones, a smaller size, in the hope it will give her less space to reach the wound while scratching, but it is a bit more difficult to put on and even to take off.

    but hey, no complaints here!!
    am very pleased she is here and happy!
    M and cat

    • Patrick says:

      I am sorry Margaret and I am sure this will get me in more trouble…………..but a lot of this reminds me of all the talk there is about the rights of patients (humans that is) to die in peace without endless medical interventions etc etc. All the complaints about how people are not allowed to just die anymore but kept alive by lung machines and heart machines and ‘brain machines’ forever and ever it seems sometimes. It has not reached that point I suppose though I imagine it would if cats could talk…………….though I also imagine if the cat could talk it might say ‘please leave me alone’ …………..

  105. Patrick says:

    and purely co-incidentally I just came across this now……………

    http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/02/03/395878/Even-zoo-animals-not-safe-from-Israel

  106. Miguel says:

    Jack:

    I think that abolition of money is a philosophy or ideology. We can only feel the feelings behind that philosophy or ideology. Ideologies as we know are normally used to deny reality and are for the most part inflexible. That has happened with Marxism as with many “ism”. C.Marx begun by changing the Hegelian focus of the dialectic from the inner state(consciousness) to the outside, the means of production. As Janov wrote in the journal of Primal Therapy. “It is undialectic to think that social problems con be solved without regard to the inner states of the individuals who live in society. And it is equally undialectic to think that the internal problems can be completely resolved without regard to the social structure we live”.

    In fact C. Marx by changing the focus on the outside events was a metaphor of his own life, where three of his children died of hunger. He wanted to saved humanity , but could not saved his children.

    On the other hand D.H Lawrence wrote

    Lenin says: Your are saved, but you are saved wholesale.
    You are no longer men, that is bourgeois,
    You are items in the soviet state,
    And each item will get its ration,
    But it is the soviet state alone which counts
    The items are of small importance,
    The state having saved them all.

    Miguel

    • jackwaddington says:

      Miguel: You are obviously well read and seemingly have taken in a great deal of your reading to heart. On the question of “anarchy” (a state of affairs without hierarchy) it really needs that one has to conjecture what that would be like (sadly, a head trip … and a long and arduous one for most of us). I am not that unique or original in my thinking on this question either..

      I am not sure how and why you dismiss the idea and whether in fact you have given “the notion” a great deal of thought. However, the only way, I contend, I might be able to get into the ‘way’ you are thinking would be by asking you to answer a few questions. I feel that you would be very sincere in an attempt for both of us to come to some general understanding of one another.

      1) Is capitalism (a la Marx’s designation) the only means that we humans can live together?
      2) Is capitalism a fair means for us dealing with one another?
      3) Can capitalism prevent hunger, greed, war, unnecessary killing, OR does it actually encourage these factors … especially greed, OR what?
      3) If indeed money and all means of exchange were to come about … what do you think would be the state of affairs … and would that state of affairs be unbearable for co-existence?
      4) Is there an alternative, in your opinion, to capitalism, other than the “dictatorship of the proletariat’ OR, does the present system just require “tweaking”?

      My answers to each of the above questions; having given all the above, many years of thought are:- 1) No!, 2) Extremely unfair, 3) No!, It encourages it … subliminally 4) Nirvana (not “bliss”) but allowing each of us to live our NATURAL lives … as opposed to our BEHAVIORAL meanderings. In the first instance to be fully feeling … in the second instance to continue to live and operate neurotically.

      Jack

  107. Margaret says:

    Patrick,
    you are so wrong.
    the cat actually comes up to me for help when she feels distressed, and allows me without any struggle to treat her.

    the biopsy was a minor intervention, not even needing one stitch, and for heaven’s sake, what kind of comparisons you make with patients about to and wanting to die..

    we are talking about a skin disease here, which turns out to be treatable!

    again I feel you have not read with real attention what I hav written earlier on, as then you would have noticed I was prepared to let her go in peace if necessary, even considering letting her die at home without injection if bearable for her, and with injection if it would save her a lot of suffering and anxiety.

    I asked the vets what they would do if it was their cat and they were very clear and unanimous in doing the biopsy, and no, not for commercial reasons, they were very sensitive women, very considerate.

    you look at the world in such bitter tones, it’s all bad and all wrong, why not just let the cat die. it is just a cat, wasn’t that what you said before?

    you project so much of your own bittterness and anger onto other persons and their opinions.

    I have very openminded ideas about letting people choose how they die, with or without euthanasia, with or without treatment.

    for my cat I simply want to give her the best and at the same time longest life possible, the first quality prevailing over the second.

    if a skin disease can be treated, it is my responsibility to take care as well as possible of the pet I decided to raise in my home.

    I am grateful to her and know part of my motivation is selfish, it would be better if all animals could roam free in a natural world, but that is why I wrote about how the mother cat of my cat walked into a stranger’s house voluntarily , searching the company and care of humans.

    I am opposed to breeding specific races etc., but the existing non-thoroughbred pet population deserves a fair chance, even while precautions are taken to keep their numbers in control.

    not that I would slaughter pedigree pets but I am opposed to raising and breeding them, usually they are full of inbred disorders.

    so your comparison does not apply here at all, it sprouts merely once more out of your bitterness searching to spout disapprovment all over the place.

    your words don’t affect my feeling I do the right thing one bit, but they tell me once more you don’t hear what i say in my comments.

    they were all about respecting the life quality and I can assure you my cat is very happy now to be back home and eats well and just accepted with patience and even some pleasure that her wound got treated.

    what do you say if she gets better and lives happily for another number of years?

    one more sorry is the best I could expect, one of your many sorries but even that is actually only a best case scenario..

    wish you’d really do some proper therapy, Patrick, I am sure it would make you a more pleasant person if you’d give it a real chance.

    you sound so bitter these days, is that how you want to remain?
    M

  108. Margaret says:

    Patrick,
    a question occurred to me: if say you’d get skin cancer, would you just let it grow, spread and die your natural death in a probably pretty horrible ‘natural’ way or would you simply have te spot removed, a relatively small and easy procedure?

    M

    • Patrick says:

      Margaret – I don’t want to get into a whole bunch of ‘rights’ and ‘wrongs’ about all this……………it’s just my F-E-E-L-I-N-G. That way of talking should make Jack ‘happy’ (though of course it won’t lol)…………..as far as your speculations about my ‘bitterness’ etc goes I would say that is mostly your F-E-E-L–IN-G (jeez I think I might even get the hang of this way of talking……………)

  109. Margaret says:

    Patrick,
    well, if you want it that way, it is my feeling you start to resemble or get worse than the mother you described.
    always ready to attack and criticize even while a person is being open and vulnerable and often feeling good about something.

    you can say you only express opinions fair enough, but it is a different matter if those opinions are invariably nothing but disapprovals and utter rejections, hardly related to the contents of what the person attacked is saying, if not as a mere means to attack.

    does this remind you in any way of a mom viciously attacking her child, all happy and proud of himself, merely for being ‘too slow’ in coming back from the communion to his place?

    it does feel very similar to me, but again you will avoid looking at it in any real way and say it is just my feeling or wahtever other c you come up with.
    M

    • Patrick says:

      Margaret – I find your response kind of amazing and not in a good way. I am sure there is something in what you say………………but I don’t really think it is your place to say it. I mean you can of course and do…………….cool I suppose………..still getting into that kind of level of ‘interpretation’ seems weird and ‘off’…………….and that’s one of the places primal can and does get ‘cult like’ because deep down everyone knows that everyone has ‘issues’ so……………..when push come to shove USE it and use it you/they do…………..Barry did something like that to me at the last retreat I was at I am trying to ‘talk’ to him to convey something but at a certain point he ‘uses’ the ultimate weapon or what he thinks is what puts and end to all ‘argument’ well he ‘knows’ there is something wrong with me. I don’t want to exaggerate here but that is exactly what Scientology does find out as much as they can about their ‘patients’ to begin with and then that is always available for ‘use’ later on. On the scale of cults primal is a very soft one maybe I could even say ‘harmless’ one but to me you have just demonstrated one of the dynamics. I would not DARE to nor would I want to ‘pick’ out some event from your childhood that you talked about in an open and trusting way and USE it later do weaken and discourage you. But I feel you have just done that or at least tried to……….and it is something that is done almost ‘silently’ a lot of the time but still a dis empowering and discouraging ‘technique’…………………….

  110. Margaret says:

    Larry, that is very true. Guru, I could not detect any words or emoticons with my screenreader in your reply to Larry’s reply to me (?)

    now we are both catching our breath, lay on the couch at noon to watch news on tv and fell asleep with cat on my belly, to wake up much later still with cat purring on my belly from my own snore..

    she seems to be doing better, much more active, eats very well and scratches only minimally for very brief moments, safely covered by new smaller suit for the most part.
    her wound seems to be healing well too, so probably this medication is catching on well!
    still early though,.
    M

  111. Margaret says:

    Patrick,
    you really don’t get it do you?
    your wall of defense and ways of avoiding the issues are incredible.

    why would I want to discourage you etc., again a negative interpretation.

    you accuse people of all kinds of things and give farfetched criticism on primal therapy only to remain safe in your own mindset without ever having to put it into question.

    you are judgamental all the time, but the oment somebody, me in this case, asks you straight questions you refuse consistently to answer them, and after you have repeatedly tried to stump me on the head with crazy kinds of criticisms that are also very farfetched in their analogies that make little sense, you are all offended and play the victim merely because I point out your attitude is so very similar these days to the attitude you once were so hurt by and so angry about at your mom.
    this is a primal blog, and if this gets to you this much, it’s probably because it contains too much truth.

    whatever even if I am entirely wrong it is not the point, it remains true you always criticize and condemn, judge and reject, disapprove and ‘know better’ in such a selfrighteous way, without the slightest little bit of empathy for what I was saying and feeling.

    you conveniently ignore what I said about the details you obviously
    misssed in my former comments, when you came up with that stuff about ‘simply letting die’ etc.

    you are so full of crap and bullshit Patrick, sorry but your endless escaping honesty and straight
    forwardness and always falling back on crazy meaningless remarks about cults is such a false front, such a scam.

    phony as it gets, Patrick, and if anyone gets fooled here, it is only you, your choice as you are smart enough to find out the truth if only you’d have the guts to do so.

    your whole selfrightneousness is such an act out, if you can’t even try to be real fuck off and leave me alone with your crap, you do not intimidate me and you sure do not impress me.

  112. Margaret says:

    [[[Apologies to Margaret – I should have posted this earlier today – but I missed it in my inbox – Fiona]]]

    Patrick,
    the way you avoid once more to answer a simple and direct question like the one about what if you’d have skin cancer, is ironic as you state ‘you don’t want to get into the rights and wrongs’..

    it is clear though you love to get into all kinds of wrongs all the time, other people’s wrongs mostly, without any problem.

    getting into a ‘right’ seems much harder though..

    it seems so hard for you to honestly look at your own motives and behaviour, that it comes close to hypocrisy, as you so often avoid the questions or comments when they come near a flaw in your own reasoning or another kind of personal sore spot of yours.

    very easy to have a go at others, much harder to honestly and critically look at yourself and be straighforward about it.
    M

  113. Margaret:
    You asked me: “Guru, I could not detect any words or emoticons with my screenreader in your reply to Larry’s reply to me (?)

    I’m sorry if you couldn’t see the YouTube video, Margaret. It was just that Larry’s comment about an emotional roller-coaster reminded me of a hilarious classic Seinfeld scene. It shows about 20 seconds of a character named Kramer showing utter contempt at his ex-girlfriend for being lowlife scum, but the following 20 seconds shows him crying and almost on his hands and knees begging her to come back. The juxtaposition of it was a raucous emotional roller-coaster.

  114. Patrick:
    You said in an earlier post: “Barry did something like that to me at the last retreat I was at I am trying to ‘talk’ to him to convey something but at a certain point he ‘uses’ the ultimate weapon or what he thinks is what puts and end to all ‘argument’ well he ‘knows’ there is something wrong with me. I don’t want to exaggerate here but that is exactly what Scientology does find out as much as they can about their ‘patients’ to begin with and then that is always available for ‘use’ later on.

    Can you kindly share a description of this weapon Barry uses? Or at least email it to me?

  115. Patrick says:

    Guru – you are truly a FUNNY dude…………….you can make jokes out of nothing! Like God who ‘created the world out of nothing’…………….speaking of that I was reading recently that the whole Big Bang theory owes maybe quite a bit to that story and was ‘supported’ by some people in the Vatican etc. They felt more comfortable with that idea than the notion that the world had no beginning or no end I thought that was interesting. Also from the point of view that any ‘science’ often has other elements to it that are ‘non scientific’ I just saw the movie about Stephen Hawking “The Theory of Everything” and I found him weirdly un-convincing. He was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig’s disease when quite young and he never seemed to even get curious about that but continued on in much the same vein before and after the illness focused on Big Bangs, Black Holes etc etc. To me it was interesting in that he very much kept on the same path though of course he has been ‘rewarded’ for that choice.

    Speaking of movies my favorite one of this Winter was about another brilliant Englishman Alan Turing (there are 3 of them including Jack!) who broke the German codes in WW2, I really liked it and thought it was very good in that it went into his personality as well as his ‘brilliance’. The Stephen Hawking one I thought was ‘weak’ on his personality and focused on the ‘brilliance’ of his thories which I am not so sure about at all. Here is the trailer for the Turing movie “The Imitation Game” I imagine Guru would like this one also…………….

  116. Patrick says:

    Another movie I liked a lot was this one “Still Alice” about a lady who get Alzheimer’s Disease and how it develops and how she copes with it

  117. Margaret says:

    just for the record, Guru, I was there every time Patrick was, and I can assure you all what happened was in attempts to help Patrick, even while Barry used a word he did not like at all, it was in a question why he did behave that way.
    M

  118. Margaret says:

    just making a wild guess even before my other comment is pasted on the blog and reacted upon, reading the last comments I get the impression Guru’s reaction to Patrick’s so called mail was out of the blue, without having received any e-mail, am I right?
    M

    • Margaret: No, Patrick did send me an email explaining some things, but beyond that I have to leave it up to Patrick. Please don’t make this into a really big deal to worry over, though.

      • Patrick says:

        Thanks Guru – you are a lot less ‘radio-active’ than me……………..

        • jackwaddington says:

          That would not be difficult … for anyone. 🙂

          Jack

          • Patrick says:

            “Here” at least yes that’s true………………but there are other places in the world well let’s say that are more agreeable to me and I am ‘working’ my best to leave ‘here’ and get ‘there’ though that itself is somewhat of an ‘old feeling’ lol………………but I am ‘working’ at making it a ‘new feeling’…………….too much ‘old feeling’ and not enough ‘new feeling’ is not so good at least for me……………..

            • jackwaddington says:

              Of course the neurotic world (the majority thereof) will inevitably be on your side … somewhat because It’s all in your/their heads.
              It is also quite obvious that you prefer the new feelings (deemed bitterness by me and one other), than old feelings:- the essence of ridding oneself of the debilitating disease; most of us on this blog, at least, are working to get from underneath. So! … go figure.

              Jack

  119. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    how are you and your teckel, (dachshund) friend?
    M

  120. Margaret says:

    sure UG, no worru at all!
    M

  121. Patrick says:

    “According to an ancient legend, there was a time when ordinary people had access to all the knowledge of the gods. Yet time and again, they ignored this wisdom. One day, the gods grew tired of so freely giving a gift the people didn’t use, so they decided to hide this precious wisdom where only the most committed of seekers would discover it. They believed that if people had to work to find this wisdom, they would use it more carefully. One of the gods suggested that they bury it deep in the earth. No, the others said— too many people could easily dig down and find it. “Let’s put it in the deepest ocean,” suggested one of the gods, but that idea was also rejected. They knew that people would one day learn to dive and thus would find it too easily. One of the gods suggested hiding it on the highest mountaintop, but it was quickly agreed that people could climb mountains. Finally, one of the wisest gods suggested, “Let’s hide it deep inside the people themselves. They’ll never think to look in there.” And so it came to be— and so it continues today”.

    • jackwaddington says:

      The question here is why you decided to post this ancient legend? I can only think of two reasons, one being that you think the same … the other that you deem/think it is a great piece of wisdom.

      If indeed such “Gods” existed for real, then it seems to me, they must have been real dumb to plant it inside each of us, when most (99.99%) of us would never think to look there.

      For the .001%, I suspect it was a matter of creating those Gods in the first place then giving to those (created Gods), some secret hiding place … deemed WISDOM.

      Jack

      • Patrick says:

        Jack – I have to give you credit, you keep your Crypt nice and neat and well ordered……………..and seemingly devoid of all life. Immune and inured from any outside ‘influences’ or ‘impurities’. You are doing fine (unpaid) work for Janov keeping the illusion of ‘exclusivity’ and uniqueness going keeping his central error firmly in place. And sometimes I think you and I are like the Sunnis and Shias at ‘war’ but fulfilling someone else’s agendas. Divide and conquer sow doubt and confusion and the more something is not there the more people will scrap about it and soon people are at each other throats. Like in the Middle East………………..Arabs killing Arabs…………..

  122. Margaret says:

    Patrick,
    I relate to needing to feel wanted.
    although I am not sure whether you will find it by moving I certainly wish you good luck.
    M

  123. Margaret says:

    mom called, about when we would come, two messages on answering machine, as she had also an appointment with her boyfriend so she wanted to cancel ours.

    called her and said my brother would come by today and as her boyfriend would see her tomorrow, there was no problem

    I told her too to write it in big letters on the board we put on her fridge, but she always forgets she has it.

    she complained about her memorey and stuff so I reminded her of the tools we provided, the board, her cellphone which gives her the day, and a digital photolist with a calendar which lights the present day,

    but she had again moved and lost the digital calendar, and rarely uses the board, so I told her if she minds so much losing her memory, she should make more of a routine to use external memory helps.

    she promised to do so but then shifted to complaining about how hard it is to live alone, and that I probably knew.

    I told her if she had a problem with that, she should consider moving to a service flat and have more company.

    then e
    she said it wasn’t that bad as to move.

    I thought well then fucking stop complaining, but said well, mom, then if you feel bad try to remember it is your choice and think of the good things instead of about the bad ones, at least that was kind of the gist of what I said and what she also replied.

    still in the end when I reminded her my brother would come by and she could see her boyfriend the next day for a hike, she still sounded kind of plaintive.

    I feel there is only so much left I have to give her to throw into that bottomless pit of need, I am not quite ‘done’ giving, but feel like making so much less effort lately, have my own worries and life and actually get irritated and impatient with her even while I try to remain friendly, that is how I feel.

    then I notice I feel bad about myself,about not being ‘kinder’ and even more patient and gentle and supportive etc.

    I vaguely feel or wonder if I should feel guilty or something, for not being able or willing to give more.

    but then I think I would give more if really needed and useful, this somehow still feels like some kind of manipulation, even while she probably can’t help it, I can only give so much.

    why do I continue about it?
    probably some feeling lurking there to be uncovered.

    pain and frustration, sadness and loneliness.
    but my cat still seems to improve, while needing good caring though.
    brother coming by later on today, whole afternoon meeting with my statistics teacher next week, and no painkillers in the house, that is what counts now.

    mom will be all happy with her boyfe
    riend tomorrow and struggle to retain the upper hand with my brother when he visits, well, she is not a bad person for sure, but I am glad I can stay home for the cat.

    does this make me a bad person?
    I don’t think so, her life is not worse than mine, have to take care of myself as well.
    still feel sad, it seems never to be enough.
    M tomorrow.

  124. I feel bad for the kid. 10 year sobriety birthday cake at his main meeting and I can’t go because the hospice dog is in pain. But that is only the half of it. They bring home food and cake to celebrate and i am a dead man.Glum. That is not the half of it. Lousy person through and through and i feel bad for the dog because i cant do anything for it. I am only wallowing in my misery but GFY, i really cant do any better than this.

  125. Margaret says:

    the dermatologist was very pleased about the cat’s progress.
    the biopsy showed no sing of malign disease, some leftover bacteria being treated with new generation antibiotics, and as it is almost sure now she has a food allergy, a try-out with a special brand of food, only pure meat from one kind of animal, no other stuff added to it, which when it works might even manage to take her eventually entirely off cortisone.

    she loves the food, so that is great.

    still plenty of caretaking at the moment but she is gaining a lot of weight again and visibly more active so good news.

    forcing myself to get back into statistics a bit, between the vacuuming, laundry, cooking, cat stuff and a cold that is playing up.

    whole thursday afternoon with stats teacher, so I better be prepared.

    started reading over my summary of a case analysis and I felt afraid to do so, but reading all I have done it actually gave my confidence a good boost, think I have done a fairly good job so far.

    Larry, how are you doing now?
    our bit of cold and grey skies is already getting to me so I can’t imagine what it must be like to live in a very long very strong kind of winter, brrrr..

    Vicky, how about you? it has been a long time since you wrote about yourself here, I miss some female company here, Leslie, Diana, Crystal, Irena, Fiona,and of course Gretchen???
    pretty please?
    M

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Margaret
      I don’t remember ever telling you ( my memory sucks) that I had two cats. One ( a grey tabby) adopted us in Melbourne, and the other ( an orange tabby) we rescued from some kids in Sydney.
      The orange tabby lived close to 14 years, but died of cancer. Boohoohoo.
      The grey tabby we brought to LA with us, but as he got very old, about 17 years, we had her put down on the vet’s advice, as he wouldn’t have made it into Australia, due to the strict quarantine laws.
      Since then, I’ve not been able to have any animals. I get so attached and it hurt so much to have my grey tabby put down. When I left the vet and got into the car, I howled non stop for a long time.
      This is the cat that guarded my son in a pram. This is the aloof cat that always slept at my feet.
      Tom

  126. Margaret says:

    and Jo of course, sorry about that, as I said, very tired..
    I might be forgetting others too, sorry, long time since Bernadette posted here, and Sabine and who else?
    Sylvia?
    M

    • Anonymous says:

      Hi Margaret, Been reading about your cat and know how you feel. I had a blue-eyed cat that always was on cortisone too for allergies, and wore a fan-collar much of the time. We didn’t know what he was allergic to. It sounds like you might be on the right track with food. I have a little dog on Wysong Epigen , which is a dry kibble no-grain recipe. He had hot spots and digestive problems and was always chewing his tail. Now he is fine. I add a little cooked squash too. My cat is on it too (though she eats can food too and has no health problems). But it sounds right that you are considering her diet. About your Mom, I know what you mean about having to repeat everything. I remember how confused my mom always was about time too. When I would tell her my brother was coming over “tomorrow”, the next hour she would think it was tomorrow and say “Is he here yet?” For me, a mistake I made looking back was trying to get her to remember family members she was forgetting–that would frustrate her. She lived in the now and that’s what was important to her. She would have a nice phone conversation with her grandson, my nephew, and afterward say “Who was that?” I guess it’s an adventure, isn’t it, learning how to help a parent go down the path of their own childhood again. I guess she had the emotional stability of a 6 yr. old and very easily hurt and confused. Keep well, Margaret. Also I wanted to say Hi, to Tom and glad you are feeling better. Sylvia

  127. Margaret says:

    Sylvia, thanks for your great reply, it was very nice to read!
    I have always dreamed to have one of these pretty Siamese cats with bright blue eyes who, so I have heard, are very talkative.

    but I don’t feel like buying from a cattery, as I am opposed to the whole breeding thing.

    if ever I’d run into one looking for a home I’d certainly adopt it. those very skinny ones are not that pretty, but the ‘normal’ muscular kinds are so beautiful, all cats are but these specially.

    I do hate the idea of furless cats having been bred, those poor animals must feel so cold all the time, and they hardly have whiskers too, it is a crime to breed animals like that on purpose.

    yes, about my mom, your comment made me reflect on trying to be softer with her and more easygoing, if I can manage..
    today she sounded very cheerful so that was nice.
    hope to hear more from you soon, Margaret

  128. Hey All, I just wanted to let you know in case there was a misunderstanding. We are not at all doing away with the Thanksgiving retreat. We love that retreat as it is very different from our summer retreat. We are just not doing that retreat for this year only. There was simply a conflict. We will resume doing that retreat the Thanksgiving after this one! 🙂 Gretch p.s. And of course we have the upcoming summer retreat

    • Leslie says:

      Yahoo! Such good news to have confirmed! Thanks Gretchen. Each & every Retreat I have attended has been unique, supportive in every way, and splendid!
      ox L.

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Gretchen
      It’s interesting that the retreats happened to be either around July 4th or Thanksgiving.
      I know they are major American Holidays , however, I didn’t observe anyone attending, having a big issue about the holidays. ( I stand corrected here, as I may be way off base)
      My observation of the attendees is that the benefit we all draw from the retreats is just being together. Having a time out, when we can be ourselves, which is not always possible in every day life. ( maybe that’s only my feeling, who knows).
      The other issue I heard raised in the past about the cost of airline tickets. Well, I can tell you, that the summer retreat occurs, for me, in the high season. Whilst I acknowledge that there may be a number of people with financial difficulties, perhaps you may reconsider having the retreats at different times suitable for you and Barry and the attendees.
      It also occurred to me that neither you, nor Barry, ever get a chance to have your own family holidays at those times.
      I understand that it must be incredibly difficult to cater for such a diverse lot of people, especially as we come form 3-4 continents. Atty has done a remarkable job all these years.
      Anyway, for what it’s worth, I put my two pennies in.
      Oh. I can’t wait for this summer’s retreat. five more months. It feels like eternity.
      Tom

  129. Miguel says:

    Hi Margaret.

    I’m so glad your cat is much better; certainly your care is very important for her to get well. The other day I could not find my cat for two days and missed her a lot, a lot. I thought she had gone to seek a male, which is normal. And I looked around. I had searched in the cupboards of the house, in all but one. One day I felt strong blows and believed that neighbor were making noises, coming from the locker of the dining room. I opened the door and there was my cat, hungry and eager to pee. How had I had not thought about t. I opened the closet door to get the iron and the cat got in there and I did not realize it. My cat is very curious, and curiosity killed the cat, luckily not this time. Certainly I am giving her the love and care I wished I would had had from my parents when I was a kid, I talk to her and say nice things to her.

    Sylvia, your talk on domestic animals and your mother is very interesting. What you say about your mother say living in the here and now, is paradigmatic of many people who say that the past does not matter, what matters is the present, the here and now. I do not want to desire any hurt to anyone, but I think this mindset of many people in our society, can take its toll. I wonder if Alzheimer’s a metaphor for the desire to forget, more or less consciously, of living in the here and now, led to some end, a metaphor made flesh. Many times we have what we want and if we wanted to live unconsciously, there we have the results. Not that people want to get sick, but we have what we deserve in many cases.

    Gretchen, I’m glad for no suppression of the retreat. There is an excellent article by Nick Barton, like most articles written by him where he talks about the cultural issue of healing. Barton says that Janov followed a medical model when he wrote on the cover of The Primal Scream. A cure for the neurosis, which was a hit since primal therapy, was to restore health in a holistic manner, psychobiological way, not just a behavioral change. But then continues , saying , that Primal therapy is not a medical cure, that you received the treatment and you are cure in a miraculous way, we cannot say that primal therapy, even if significant progress had been made, and regain the ability to feel, that we had reached a stage, a plateau where we can say we are fully cured, as it is one is cured of the flu or chickenpox, but that has to do with the original meaning of the Latin word curare, take care of. In this sense retreats in Santa Barbara offer almost a perfect context of the care of the parents who care for their patients in that you offer a unique context, scenario , opportunity not to be found anywhere else to feel and experience the primal hurting . Barton also refers to the sense of healing that should be the responsibility mainly of the person. If therapists are very important, crucial but the ultimate responsibility is on the patient. Because primal therapy is much more than going to the institute or other facility of Primal therapy to receive therapy. It is primarily a commitment to health. To think otherwise would be childish. I say this because some people blamed the Primal Institute this or that, if Barry this or that without commenting if they have been responsible and had taken their responsibility in the healing process, which of course is a dynamic process and miracles do not exist.
    Miguel

  130. Margaret says:

    miguel,
    nice comment you wrote!
    and also glad you found your cat again, mine when still very small once slipped unnoticedly into the fridge, but I immediately missed her and thought of looking there, thank heavens!
    I am also always very careful doublechecking the washing machine before turning it on.
    you are so right about one’s personal responsibility in therapy. it is similar with trying to stop smoking or using dope, if you are not motivated it will never work well, the first work is to reflect and search for an internal motivation to be able to make the decision to really go for it.

    I was lucky I guess to have a big breakthrough shortly before the end of my intensive which was so powerful it took all my fears and doubts about having come to therapy away.

    therapy is no guarantee for an easy or even very pleasant life, but it does offer more reality, and a more connected self which is priceless.
    last night I had a dream in which I entered a huge dome, half secular half kind of religious, and in the dream I was so overwhelmed with the beauty I fell down on my knees sobbing, just because of the impact of being able to see the splendor.

    I guess this is also a way of accepting and processing the big loss of eyesight and the luxury of seeing all the marvels of this world.
    I am so glad to be a very active dreamer, colours, music, smells, it is all there. and some of the feelings are more powerful as they seem to be more pure, fear is terrible and acute, beauty is overwhelming, laughter is liberating.

    tomorrow afternoon with statistics teacher, important, I hope my cold does not make my brain too foggy.
    still completely without painkillers, doing well.
    M

  131. Miguel says:

    Thanks Margaret.
    It’s nice you can dream unpleasant and pleasant things without the censorship there is normally during the day. I usually sleep well, but I do not dream. Sleep for me is a blessing because I suffered insomnia and know that not not being able to sleep is a torture. Some people have told me they sleep, but do not rest. This therapy helped me to sleep well.

    I am glad you’re seriously committed to your health and therapy. This is the way that it works best. Good evening and greetings. Saludos.

  132. Margaret says:

    Dear Tom,
    I relate so much to the howling of pain after having your dear cat put down.
    reading just this little about it made tears well up in my eyes.

    it must have been so painful.
    all I can do for myself in a case like that is picture my former pets in their pet heave, and ‘smiling’ down upon me, understanding and forgiving me and still loving me.

    your love to them sounded like a very deep one.
    M

  133. Margaret says:

    hurray, my statistics teacher was very pleased with my fourteen pages summary of a case analysis I did, and of a few try-out exam questions. he finds me more than ready to do the exam so the next steps are starting up the procedure to apply for the exam of this first statistics module, quantitative data analysis.

    now I have to do another case analysis, about two nonths work, or a bit more, a lot of work, doing all the tests and then search out the relevant data and copypaste them one by one in a summary and then drew conclusions.

    but feel so pleased everything went really well today, my whole summary was fine and we clarified the few items I had still some questions about.

    I probably will have to do a spoken exam with two examinators, one of them my teacher.
    hopefully in june as I have been working a lon long time on this stuff, with all the prepaarations of the software and learning how to use it.

    wel on my way now.

    still some worries about the cat who seems to get skinnier, will give her more than the ‘normal’ dose of food from now on.
    maybe the change of diet makes her feel a bit uncomfortable, as she sometimes meows as if feeling some pain, maybe just some belly trouble hopefully.
    she seems to drink less too so have to watch it.
    will be so relieved when all the worrying will be over, and she will be healthy again!
    M

  134. Sylvia says:

    Hi, Margaret. I am feeding a 1/2 wild long-haired Siamese cat for two yrs. now. Don’t know if she has an owner in the area or not because she won’t settle here, but looks thin at times. Wish she would let me near. I’ve always felt a calmness with cats. I still dream of a cat I had for 19 yrs.–that she’s in reality just been away, and in the dream I rush to put food out for her. Don’t they just touch our hearts. Hi, Miguel. Thanks for the comment. I agree that being unconscious of buried hurts can hurt our brains and eat us alive. It seems odd that those internal rumblings have their own life and seek vengeance if not fully acknowledged. Maybe we’re much more easily upset because of all the rumblings keeping us “on edge” all the time, causing more cortisol to be released, thus shrinking the vital memory parts of the brain (and probably hurting other areas too). Also I know that physical conditions like diabetes and chronic inflammation can contribute too. Anyway, just a thought. Hasta luego, Sylvia

    • Sylvia: I can totally relate to the anger, irritability, and cortisol release whenever I lose money to people or businesses I dislike. Winning money, on the other hand, floods me with an uplifting and inspiring feel-good drug cocktail of dopamine derivatives that leave me feeling that everything I do in the universe is absolutely perfect.

      The closest drug to the feeling is probably codeine, but not something so strong as Vicodin.

      • It leaves me wondering: If money was abolished as Jack has suggested, would these feelings be neutralized?

        I guess abolishing money wouldn’t be such a bad idea. Free cat food for everyone!

        • jackwaddington says:

          For a Guru to be “left wondering” is not what I assumed Gurus did, BUT for the ‘ultimate’ of Gurus … that demonstrates to me the lack of any real Guruisnm …. from MY understanding of Gurus

          Here we have a very real example of what Thouless wrote about crooked thinking:- How would the abolition of money change the ‘FEELING NATURE’ of us humans.

          If Guru would be content to eat cat food … so-be-it.

          I would continue to eat human food … and leave the cats to their own kind of food

          Jack

          • If I was Arthur Janov I would have Jack’s critical post censored immediately!

            • jackwaddington says:

              Your a long long way from being Arthur Janov or even being another Arthur Janov.

              Try, Guru, saying what my comment did to you.

              Your comment to me inspired me to respond with a 🙂 .

              • Why do you think Vicki once said you should have been banned from the blog, Jack?

                As an aside, I am very glad I don’t read Janov’s writings at all anymore. That was a huge mistake, I admit that.

                • jackwaddington says:

                  I have no memory of Vicki ever stating that I should be banned. However, if in fact she did, I am aware that it is not up to Vicki to make that decision. I gather from a comment by Gretchen that no-one is banned from this blog. As I see it, it’s is a forum for allowing, mainly Primal patients, to express their sentiments on here … freely.

                  You’ve made it very clear in the past that you have little respect for the work and writings of Arthur Janov. That’s your thing … I gather. Mine’s very different … as I would have hoped was obvious.

                  Jack

  135. Jack: I am not sure why I am even engaging in blog chat with you. My saying it was an enormous mistake for me to read into what Janov had to say too deeply, does not equate to an issue of “respect” as you mentioned. You are completely twisting the contextual meaning of what I am saying to suit your own purposes.

    It’s far, FAR more complicated than that. I’m not against a good cry, leaning on someone’s shoulder, or when things are totally hopeless or against having a good support group.

    Just because I think reading Janov’s books are a dangerous exercise in masochism doesn’t mean I’m against people crying at all, though. Not at all.

    {In the interest to avoid further complications and after much careful thought and deliberation, I redacted two paragraphs spanning 16 lines originally placed within these brackets}

    • jackwaddington says:

      Quote:- “Just because I think reading Janov’s books are a dangerous exercise in masochism …………. ” If indeed you really THINK that reading Janov’s books is a ‘dnagerous excercise in masochism’ why did you ever read his books and then come to do Primal Therapy??? … unless you are now fully aware that you are … by your own definition … are a masochist.

      If you are NOT against crying … then what are you for?

      Permit me to make a suggestion. If indeed you are not SURE WHY you are engaging in this chat blog with me … then just stop. A simple enough excercise … unless there is a hidden compulsion going on here. For my part I am having fun. You and Patrick are so easy to “poke” in the facebook sense of ‘poking’

      Lastly “respect” for the the Primal process does equate, as I see it, with you’re deeming it a :”mistake” on your part. You may well be right that I am taking your words out of context, BUT are you suggesting that you would never be guilty of such a sin??????

      Jack

  136. A teaser question: How many total automotive miles were driven by thousands of people to Janov’s doorstep over the last 50-60 years without any risk to Janov’s own life or limb?

    • It’s probably a benefit to the Primaller community that its members would even consider the ramifications of such a question. Most car-dependent big businesses will conveniently ignore that issue totally (for their own general benefit, of course).

    • jackwaddington says:

      What a silly question … teaser or not.

      Jack

    • Patrick says:

      Guru – how about ‘air miles’ more to the point at least from my perspective. One ‘beef’ I have with Janov and the PI by extension is that very setup. Janov had the attitude of he ‘had the goods so come to him’ and in my opinion right there was a big problem with any chances of PT ‘succeeding’.

      What I mean is people were dragged out of their own environments and put into a kind of every man for himself zoo of survival in Los Angeles. A lot of us were ‘illegal’ in the country pretty soon with no visible means of support except some form of the underground economy. To me looking back on it it was a very unpromising environment to even attempt to do something like PT. To delve into deep traumas it seems to me people need to feel very ‘safe’ and the way I remember it that environment was the exact opposite of ‘safe’ This is all aside from the zoo (my feeling) of groups the sheer chaos and borderline insanity that went on there

      I was reminded of this last week I happened to be in Hollywood around 11pm right around the place I was living here for the first year. And even last week I could FEEL the fear I had then…………………just arrived in a strange country, no marketable skills (a degree in English Lit and Philosopy not so much in demand) just becoming ‘illegal’ in the country the the feeling was fear bordering on panic. Right there all my defenses were UP quite the opposite of letting them DOWN and that kind of set the template in my mind living here. I am aware this is me also, other people might not and did not react in such a strong way to that, but that IS me I have a lot of fear and insecurity. I remember one time as a child and there was a religious holiday where the priest came and said Mass in our house and I found myself feeling in-secure like shouldn’t we be ‘working’ or something. I mention this to show I am not just ‘blaming’ but like a lot of major screw ups it takes two………….like to change that saying ‘to err is human to really screw up requires two humans’ and I think that is true.

      For that reason things are not so simple it is not just a matter of whose ‘fault’ it is or was the point is the result is not good. And it has always been a point of pride it seems at the PI that people come there from all over the world. Even in this blog here Barry alludes to that.but once again I don’t see that as anything to be ‘proud’ of. More impressive it would have been if PT had ‘spread’ to the rest of the world and if it had been encouraged to spread instead we got Janov’s ‘warnings’ basically something that put a stop to any possibility of it growing in other parts of the world.

      I have probably said enough I had ‘decided’ to kind of no longer write on the blog but Guru’s thoughts about people coming to Janov kind of ‘inspired’ me (if that is the right word)

      • sylvia says:

        Patrick and others. saw a nice singing video about the Irish priest at a wedding. don’t know if you’ve all heard of him or not. He does weddings and has been a missionary in Africa and other places–seems like a decent guy. It’s a pretty song and he has such an impish grin, you can tell he really enjoys surprising the guests. I am technically challenged so I just have the address that you would have to type on the internet browser It is http://www.chonday.com/Videos/pristwedingh2

        after that choose The Priest at this wedding–Chonday com l the most… to click on

        anyway, I thought since you were Irish you might enjoy it and I think it’s pretty uplifting for others too.

        • Patrick says:

          Thanks Sylvia, that was nice though it was always a ‘mystery’ to me how priests seemed to know so much about love and marriage. I often wondered how they did……………….I mean I didn’t and I wasn’t even a priest anyway that’s another story.

          How do you know I am Irish, maybe it’s obvious always ‘fighting’ huh? Where are you from?.

      • jackwaddington says:

        Quote:- “What I mean is that people were DRAGGED (emphasis mine) out of their own environment.. No-one “dragged” you out of Brixton, London. You seemingly made your own choice to come here. Presumably knowing all that was required to get here …visas etc. Instead of suggesting it was a “beef” of yours why not say it ‘pissed you off’ I contend that would have been far nearer to what was happening to you, rather than the intimation that somehow you got handcuffed and put on a plane and dumped in Hollywood with no knowledge of what to do, or where to go. ‘Poor Patrick what a disaster for you’ … and on top of it, you didn’t even get the promise offered. Seemingly because I feel you misunderstood what Primal Therapy entailed (in-spite of a very detailed and clear description in a 423 page book).

        Maybe having had to study English Literature and Philosophy and read a ton of books, that you learned to ‘speed read’ books without careful reading. I personally read the book twice from cover to cover over a period of 20 hours on each reading; just to make sure that what I read was what the book was actually stating. I knew instantly that it was up to me to get into the “Feeling Zone” and that the therapist was merely a catalyst to guide me to that point, and from there on in, it was up to me to permit myself to “sink” into that horror of all horrors … that belonged solely to me and no other.

        It seem Patrick that you will for ever see this through your THINKING brain. There’s another brain inside that head of yours, which from my feeling about you … you are reluctant to investigate.

        Another Quote:- “More impressive it would have been if PT had ‘spread’ to the rest of the world” That is NOT how the world works. I saw a program today on PBS about a scientist working on a cure for consumption (Tuberculosis) and how all during his lifetime was unable to get the medical profession to understand that this disease was not hereditary but bacterial. I contend that Janov will eventually be recognized for his discovery and his formulation of Primal Theory (as yet still not accepted by the Medical, Neurological, nor even the scientific community). There are many examples of such innovations not being recognized until many years after the idea was first circulated.

        Jack

        • Patrick says:

          Jack – I am trying to work through for MYSELF what PT did and did not do, what it means and what it does not mean for ME. I find your constant defensive buzzing around my head distracting and VERY unhelpful. I feel like a child who wakes up with a nightmare and you show up on the scene and make a scene along the lines of “you stupid little boy the is NO monster under your bed, why do you think that way look at me I KNOW there are no monsters in the world, think like me and you will know there are no monsters” Even on your own and on the terms of your beloved ‘theory’ you should understand that……………..

          And about the ‘fears of survival’ my feeling is you were largely protected from those by me not that I have ever felt an ounce of appreciation……………..you are a strange and if I may say it a queer bird indeed……………..do you ‘deny’ I got you your ‘home’ to protect you from your ‘lover’ with the hammer or paid your legal fees to keep you in the country in spite of your seeming constant arrests………….wouldn’t those kind of things count as ‘protecting’ you from some ‘survival’ issues………….but all that was and is as nothing to you it seems…………….but you ARE a ‘straight thinker’ (according to yourself) lol…………………………………..

  137. Barry M says:

    Hi guys, I know it’s been a while since I last contributed, but I’ve been getting the urge again lately. There has been a lot going on for me over the last few months, and I will talk about it in the next little while, but I want to start off with the last November retreat. (and before I forget, thank you Gretchen for reassuring me that Thanksgiving retreats are not a thing of the past – they are the only way that Leslie and I can both attend together (financially) and are the ultimate (for us) of both living the beauty of the Primal Retreat experience, and extending it to absorbing the Californian relief from Canadian winters.
    The Retreat itself was so rewarding for me. I had my highs and lows -as always- but my highs were so much more predominant than before. As those of you who have attended retreats with me in years gone by know, being liked is SO, SO important to me. I have, in the past felt that, but this time it was different. I finally felt love from people at the retreat when I was feeling bad and not able to ‘perform’. Vicki, Jo, Larry, Fiona, Irena, Tom and many others not on the blog, you guys mean the world to me.
    My main reason for writing here though is to talk about my session with Gretchen after the Retreat. Since my first cognizant memories I have always felt that I have had to be a ‘good’ boy – that has always been the only way I could feel that I was loved. That basic tenet has pretty much governed my whole life, be it with my parents, friends, teachers, employers, girl friends – I never had a lot of girlfriends when I was younger, -not exciting enough- but those that I did have, their mothers adored me!
    When in my session with Gretchen I was talking about times that I could remember with my parents, specifically about the good things I could recall. I started thinking about a holiday we had at a place called Butlins Holiday camp in the south of England. We all stayed in cabins and had camp leaders wake us up in the morning for breakfast and then lead us all in various family camp activities throughout the days and evenings. I remember having a great time, but unfortunately while we were there – I was about 6 or 7 – during the night I had a REALLY bad asthma attack about 1:00 a.m. My parents had a very hard time getting any medical help for me, and at some point I can remember my mother – I could see it in her eyes – actually being worried that I might not make it. With Gretchen’s help I got to the realization that this pivotal moment was the only time that I truly felt what real love/concern from my mother was. That all the rest of my life spent trying to earn that from her gave me only a poor imitation of what I really needed. It is so sad to me that I have struggled for so long to achieve what isn’t real.
    So thank you , my primal friends, for caring for me when I was not a star.

  138. Jo says:

    That brought me to tears Barry.

  139. Jo says:

    I posted a painting on Facebook a few days ago, one which felt good and an achievement. I’ve been getting an assortment of positive comments, which is lovely. I’m feeling something- a mix of pleased, shame or embarrassment , pain.
    (No wonder painting has the word Pain in it!)

  140. Margaret says:

    Barry,
    thanks for writing that comment, it was very touching.
    I guess our mothers come to their best behaviour when their offspring gets really ill.
    that is when I also really experienced my own mom as a reliable and loving support and source of safety and reassurance.
    must be their instinct overruling their act outs or something.

    glad you seemingly will need less to try and be a star or be gasping for breath in order to get to feel some love.
    your comment exuded so much of the retreat ambience I wish I would have been there.

    still will probably give this summer a miss, too much on my plate otherwise, but will certainly be back and eager to come the following time!!!

    really nice to hear from you again here!
    xx M

    p.s. Jo, so nice to hear about your painting, ha just made a typo first, spelling painning ..

  141. I am going to have to respond to Patrick down here because of the clutter buildup.

    –Even though it would have been nice to have a bunch of local support groups all over the world, I understand why the current logistical situation required the Primallers to travel far and wide to centralized locations (for retreats and the clinic, etc.). I brought up the travel question for a markedly different reason: Some of the things Janov said in his book really rankled me and I ended up having serious enough issues with said writings to drive me to Vivian’s place instead. I don’t have time right now to write down everything
    –I have to remove Janov’s stuff from my mind as much as possible when computer programming. I truly need a clean slate where that is concerned.
    –I also relate hugely with your story about trying to survive in LA without much backup except for a group. It does seem unfair that the people who are uprooted into a strange city with all its terrible complications and difficulties are the “neurotics”. I always had problems with that. I understand the crying and emotional/feeling support because life is just plain difficult
    –Why is it that when I express anger and disapproval I often become plagued with guilt afterwards? Is it a Catholic thing? Patrick, you said in the past that when you displayed the very worst of your vitriol you were worried that Gretchen will kick you out of here, banish you, never to return. I had those same inklings about Gretchen yesterday when I criticized and wanted to ban Janov’s writings from my consciousness..

    The problem with writing multi-faceted blog posts is that they can elicit responses from many people which create more topics to talk about, which elicit more responses,…..an endless quagmire of incomplete thoughts needing to be hashed out. I just don’t have the emotional energy to dig into everything like that and I have to ignore many things being said so many times because of it. I just don’t have enough ammunition for it all…!!

    • Human emotional vagaries are wet and messy.
      Computer coding is completely dry and clean.
      One of Larry’s old blog posts was right; they are mutually exclusive in every possible way.

      • jackwaddington says:

        Not all human emotions are wet. I was having a feeling of fun with both you and Patrick and the emotion of laughter and/or smiling was anything but wet.

        I never found expressing my feelings as messy. The are for me now, natural, simple very easy.

        Coding, as I knew it, is anything but clean (unless you never make any coding errors) Coding is the extreme of a head tripping. Steve Jobs even died from it. though that was not the accepted diagnosis.

        Jack

  142. Larry says:

    It’s really good to see all of your postings and to be part of this unique community, united in trying to work out our lives for the better.

    Patrick’s recent post makes me think some people are probably just too fragile to do Primal Therapy. When I first read the Primal Scream I was already at breaking point and living a very sheltered life. I didn’t feel capable of the responsibility for making my way to LA and managing a life there while doing therapy. So I started self-primalling and made some headway in understanding myself. Then the feelings got too scary and I knew I needed help, so I stopped self-primalling and hoped by some miracle I’d get to LA one day. But even through self-primalling I had found enough insight and hope to reach out and try to put together some kind of fragile life for myself, and over the following 10 years doors opened for me that I woudln’t try previously, and slowly I built enough confidence in living to finally give LA and the therapy a try. 10 years previously I just wasn’t ready.

    Something that I realized pretty early on in LA, is that I’m on my own. The therapists and the therapy were there to help, but how my therapy and my life went was up to me. Even now, the most difficult truth to accept is that people can help, but at the core they can at best only be observers while I struggle whether or not to confront my demons. When I do confront them, I’m all alone because no one else can plumb the depths with me to their source, live the feelings and know the truth unleashed, that devastated my life and has been so so hard to accept. No one else can live my life for me, no one can make the truth go away for me, no one can make everything right for me. I’m stuck with my life and it’s truth.

    Which brings me to now. My boss told me she will put it in writing that she’ll retire in July. I feel like a safety net has been removed from below the tight rope I’m on. I left LA with Noreen to start a new life. We did it. A lot of good things happened. It was a worthwhile life. It’s slowly crumbling and eventually I won’t have it any more. I’ll have to make something new and I’m afraid because where I take it is all in my hands and I feel very alone with the responsibility.
    It’s a good thing I’ve been exploring interests and reaching out, strengthening friendships and building community over the past many years, because they are where I get strength, hope, and mental well being from. I sometimes teeter at the edge of a precipice down which I would tumble irretrievably into crippling aloneness, hopelessness and despair.

    In the freezing cold and dark of winter it’s easy to succumb to isolation. In January I caught a cold that gave me shortness of breath for a month and made life even more difficult and made me even more inclined to want to withdraw and isolate. When it is freezing and dark outside, and I’m sick and weak and alone too much, life and the future looks very bleak. Then I fall back on the lessons I’ve learned, to, no matter how hopeless I feel, keep reaching out and experiencing life. It’s amazing how getting out and trusting people and trying to have fun, improves mood tremendously, brightens perspective and brings up primal feelings.

    On Friday morning I cried like I never have, being the little boy back when I first blocked out the feeling and truth…seeing all the way into the present, and being my adult self seeing all the way back, feeling the need for love that wasn’t there but was supposed to be, feeling the devastating aloneness all the way through, understanding the fragile island that I was, until Noreen came along and what a lucky miracle that she did, and that I had done enough therapy to let her in and finally for the first time in my life I wasn’t utterly alone, feeling the awful truth that my parents just weren’t there when I most needed them and it almost destroyed me.

    Having the feeling and the insight is not enough. I have to relearn, to work new brain patterns, to make life for me now. I have to learn how to live.

    I almost didn’t go to the ballroom dance workshop this afternoon. There are many excuses at my fingertips that I use for reasons to not go, but under them all the truth is I feel too alone, scared and inadequate. But what is worse is that if I don’t go I will always be alone, scared and inadequate, especially when I’m retired. So I go to the workshop, and it’s fun. My partners have fun dancing with me, are friendly and supportive. It’s such a good social activity. It elevates my mood to a much healthier, much more optimistic place. It makes me see that my fears are not based on the present, but have been carried inside me and crippling all of my life. Having fun and gaining social and personal confidence at the workshop, brings into focus and opens me to the source of my fears and to more primals.

    I wonder where I’ll be a year from now. I wonder whether I’ll be closer to being ready for retirement and being totally on my own. I’m afraid of it.

    There is a dance tonight that I’d hoped I’d go to, but I didn’t go. I’m writing to you instead. You are a good excuse. But I know I missed an opportunity, and would have learned a lot more and made a lot more progress in my life and would be more ready for retirement had I gone to the dance.

    • jackwaddington says:

      Larry: What an incredible comment about your life and about your very disastrous beginnings. You sure did get a great break with Noreen. Sadly it didn’t last and I have heard your grief over that loss for the last several years. Your progress and the hope your progress must mean to so many of us Primal bloggers is very, very inspiring.

      What I feel it has demonstrated to me is that even under the most devastating of early experiences that any child had ever to go through … there is hope … hope to get a life … in-spite of it all.

      I know I will, not be the first, nor the last to say what this comment of yours represents. I feel it will represent different thing to different people. But to most I am absolutely certain that it will be one of the ‘classic’ comment of this blog.

      For all there is some pessimism about this therapy, I feel you demonstrate that the discovery of Primal Pain and the prospect that if we are willing to indulge it, that there is the hope (my expression) ‘to get from underneath most of it’. Again as I reflect on your comment:- What a formidable inspiration Larry. Keep up the dancing.

      Jack

      • Larry says:

        Thanks for the nice words, support and encouragement, Jack. To think that people are rooting for me kind of gives me just that little bit of extra strength to keep trying.

        I’m sure there are thousands who have gone through the therapy whose journeys have been more dramatic and compelling than anything I could ever say about mine. I have to add, whether or not my post had any effect on anyone else, it sure seems to have had a positive effect on you. I’m gratified that it did, and then I’m curious…why did it. You don’t have to answer, but it interests me.

        • jackwaddington says:

          I will answer you Larry, firstly because I am not a shy person ……….. anymore; though as a young child from about 2 onward I was perhaps the shyest kid ever. Why, when according to my father at age one I was so feisty and so, so, alive? The reason, I came to learn, is that my daddy set out to make me into what he considered I ought to be. All those repressed things that he was himself. Sad for Daddy, and sad for me too. BUT and it is a huge ‘but’; I set out to get the real me back. It was a subconscious thing at first … until I read the Primal Scream. Then I knew … there was a chance. A chance, if I were to take that chance. I decided I was worth it and it was worth the effort. “Effort” … maybe that’s the not the right word. Maybe the right word is to go back and FEEL those horrors of the past. Why from being that feisty kid at age one … refusing to sit in my pram … and at 5:30 am in the morning waving my hand and shouting at the top of my lungs to all those bleary eyed, cotton factory women on their way to work “Ta Ta … Ta Ta” . My daddy was so unutterably embarrassed, (he told me late in his life) that he had such a “cheeky’ kid.

          In short Larry, having met you three times, I see the potential for the little boy that you could have been …. now struggling as an older guy to get back what you could and should have had. Yeah! I don’t have your pain, but enough of my own to see you are fighting … fighting diligently against what often seems like “all the odds” to get some of that you got when you were with Noreen. I repeat, your comment is Classic Primal Blogging, and is a great inspiration to what can be achieved through this so, so simple notion of just FEELING ALL that as, you understand deeply within you; you have to do. That’s real COURAGE. Just keep on dancing Larry.

          Life for me is just; laughing, crying, swearing, screaming, walking, running, singing, dancing … and some others … for the most part.

          Jack

    • Leslie says:

      Hi Larry,
      How wonderful to have come so far – with more growth on the horizon… Giving into yourself and not going to the dance is not a catastrophe as you know – (and we got your post 🙂 – but now it appears you can Be who you are in your life – with sights of what helps and good things for your future.
      So glad for you and all you are doing!
      ox L.

  143. Margaret says:

    Larry, great comment, Jack, great reply! M

    • Margaret: Did you think Jack’s responses to what I was saying were magnificent, as well?

      • jackwaddington says:

        There is something very sad, I feel; lurking underneath this comment of your, Guru

        Jack

        • You’re right, Jack, there is something very sad lurking two inches below my question for Margaret, but you will have to look directly below my question on the WordPress blog postings page itself to see it.

          • jackwaddington says:

            I looked at it very carefully, even before I posted it … and had lots of feeling on the matter.

            It is my feeling, though I could well be wrong, that you would like that people feel that many of your comments are magnificent.

            I remember an incident at an early retreat when Barry Bernfeld said to me “Jack, you are quite incredible” Immediately there was girl sitting near me that said “Barry I wish you would say that to me” I am not sure if Barry answered her, but to this day I have no idea why Barry said that of me. At the time I should have asked … but I didn’t. He could easily have meant ‘incredibly stupid’

            What I did feel was that the girl was very direct and honest in hoping that Barry would say that to her.

            In connection with this I feel if you Guru had asked if people thought your comments were magnificent that would have also been direct and honest. Instead I feel you indulged in what Eric Berne described in his book “Games People Play”

            I have to say that I feel you have a very adept vocabulary in the English language … and you hope (my feeling only) this determines your wisdom. I see no other reason why you would ever want to use the pseudonym “Ultimate Guru”

            If this comment of mine hurts you, I would hope that you would simply say so.

            Jack.

  144. Margaret says:

    Guru,
    mmm, very tricky!
    I guess not for me as although I have read it all none of that was inscribed in my long term memory..
    I commented on this specific one from Jack as it was different than most of his other comments, is that an acceptable answer?

    not because of the mere difference of course, but as for me the feeling contenance matters, the sincerity aside of of course what sounds like meaningful to my ears..
    and of course we all have our own particular fields of (dis)interest.

    M

  145. Margaret says:

    feeling lonely today..

    did my laundry and sat in the first bit of almost spring sunshine, while studying, took care of the cat and listened to an audio book and did some more studying.
    have a cold and feel tired and a bit down.
    dreamed about longlost husband, dreamed we were walking on the beach with some friends, a lot of people walking there, but lost sight of him and felt so lost, could not find them and did not know whether to walk on or not, or return and feared they would not look hard for me.
    woke up feeling lost..

    cat eats potatoes now mixed into her horsemeat which is very good as that is all she should eat, apart from possibley quinoa but don’t want to bother with that unless no other option.

    she is geting fitter but part of the wound is still sore and itching while another part is healing well.

    what feels good to me now is I am ready to go through the last work and preparations for my first statistics exam, and now I have some time before starting that to pick up my other course again about the biological base of cognitions, the most difficult course so far really.

    am still without painkillers, yesterday slept 8 hours in a row, and after a quick toilet visit another three hours, and cat used litter box all by herself, hurray hurray!!!

    guess I merely feel lonely right now.
    best friends out of the country since two months and for some reason do not reply to mails or txt, maybe tablet got stolen or dropped into the ocean…

    has been over five weeks since I went along to mom, feels like a nice break somehow, but should soon accompany my brother again, feel like doing so again now so that’s ok.

    wish I had some arms to hold me.

    M

  146. Margaret says:

    just gave my mom a call and this time she was feeling good, had spent afternoon raking leaves outdoors in first sunshine which as she says is good for her spirit, which I know is true from the time I was able to do it myself while enjoying the sight and smell of the autumn leaves and the spring sprouts hidden underneath..

    have lost so much with my eyesight, it is inconceivable.

    in any case my mom being ok has cheered me up, it seemingly takes some load off my shoulders, and it was nice having a little chat.

    M

  147. Miguel says:

    Hi Barry M

    A sad but important comment about your mother.

    When In England for learning English I was working for Butlins Holiday Camps in Minenhead Sumerset, neear Bristol. I was important my stay in there because I met very important people in my life and a teacher told me of summerhill the free school in England.

    Sylvia encantado de saludarte.

    Miguel

    • Barry M says:

      gracias Miguel. Estoy muy impresionado por su visión al escribir. Yo sería muy feliz de conocerte un día.
      Wow, I am so surprised that Butlins Holiday Camps are still in business. My family and I were there over 55 years ago!!!!
      Please keep writing on the blog.

  148. Larry says:

    Hello darkness my old friend…

  149. Vicki says:

    After feeding my dog outside this morning, I felt like I needed more sleep, needed to go back to bed, but when I did, the feeling surfaced, that I am just “waiting and hoping for someone to come and love me” — brought up by some hurt in the present, but quickly all about the past, crying and crying about being a baby or very young child, just waiting for my mom or my grandma to come and love me. My dad was at work all day. I felt alone, and it hurt, and no one cared, and it hurts that no one came or cared.

    I tried to love my mom and grandma, I had that feeling, but all there was, was pain. They were too toxic and mean, there was almost nothing TO love. They just revolved daily in their own bitterness of their lives, trying to find peace, but plagued by the overwhelming mass of pain of repressed feeling underneath, eking out a semblance of calm and control forever, but always a sham. But that’s my thought after finishing crying this morning, it was just about pain and hurt and lost needs as a child, really wanting to be close to “someone” in my little life that was all I had.

    My dog went and hid far back in the yard, as I expected, while I cried. She doesn’t like all that floating pain, but she came back to find me, after it was over for awhile, and she heard me stirring around and fixing my breakfast.

  150. Vicki says:

    Last night I had enough time to finally get caught up with reading this blog page, while my dog slept peacefully and snorily behind me.

    Leslie, I really liked your Jan. 17 post (https://primalinstitute.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/remembering-summer/#comment-18717) about handling breakups but really about your own long relationship with Barry. As Jo said, “inspirational”, it’s good to hear how someone else has “gone through the trenches” successfully, and how that has felt.

    And Barry M, I really liked your Feb. 13 post (https://primalinstitute.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/remembering-summer/#comment-18937) about the Nov. retreat, your session, and your mom. And it made me smile and shake my head when you wrote “…when I was not a star.”, because I was not thinking like that at all! If it helps, I never think you’re a star, so you have no chance of losing that and never need to apologize for it! Ah, but no, I never think anybody is “a star”, just to clarify that possible insult. But seriously, Barry, I do know those words mean a lot to you, and I’m glad they’re becoming clearer to you, as well.

    And Margaret, I actually do read most of your posts, and several of them struck me as excellent, thoughtful, insightful, and inspired, even if I don’t enumerate that in detail. “Keep up the good work”, as the saying goes. And thanks. And I do not intend these few comments to slight anyone else’s postings — there are plenty of good ones by everyone else who takes the time to express themselves. Thank you all.

  151. Margaret says:

    Vicky,
    that sounds like very basic and very early stuff.
    i hope you will get some relief, even while some sadness will always remain.
    M

  152. ~For Vicki & Margaret~

    Vicki: Just hypothetically writing this, but even if you happened to think everything I wrote is bad, I still really liked that last sentence you wrote before thanking everyone: “And I do not intend these few comments to slight anyone else’s postings — there are plenty of good ones by everyone else who takes the time to express themselves.”
    That has always been a minor issue for me in a group. If one or a few people are singled out as “stars”, does that exclude the others to the point of being bad since they are overlooked? Ergo, am I bad because I am being overlooked? Actually, that might be a huge issue for me.
    People rarely catch that concept in general and I’m glad you mentioned it even if you happened to secretly reduce me to dirty street urchin status.

    Margaret: Vicki was right that you wrote a lot of good things over the past number of weeks particularly when I spoke of personal regrets along with the question I raised concerning, “Why should we continually foist ourselves headlong into the risky, difficult struggles of life when in the end we may very well become fertilizer that won’t know anything of the struggles we had?” These are sensitive areas for me and your posts deserved a more thorough response from me, yet I just don’t want to go that deeply into it on the blog. I hope you understand.

  153. Otto Codingian says:

    A big blowup happened between me and Z Saturday and Sunday. She was so remarkably immersed and present inside a childhood feeling that it caught me by surprise. Of course, having old feelings surface so dramatically has become rare for both of us, and at least for her, it usually occurs while we are driving somewhere. Anyway, I couldn’t keep my mouth shut, which wouldn’t be a problem if we were in a group together, but we weren’t, so I pointed out that she was in a feeling, even though I kind of figured I should have stayed silent, and thus the blow-up Oh well, I was able to communicate with her somewhat last night about why I don’t have much to do with her, because I feel so horrible inside all the time, and how she has killed me over the past 4 decades with her spendthrift ways. The Hospice Dog has now taken a new lease on life somehow, which was a relief to both of us. Also, it appears that Z might be getting a job finally, which should make me happy, or happier, but of course it doesn’t. Taking care of the Hospice Dog is draining for both of us. He has required constant attention since he got sick over a month ago. Now he does not appear to be in pain, after we finally figured out that he needed stool softener and the right kind of dog food. Z has been stressed trying to do her coursework for her online degree program, at home with the needy dog. I have had to take off many days of work because of the needy dog, and I rarely get any free time when I get home from work and my shift with the dog starts. The house remains more of a mess than usual, and it is pulling teeth just to pay a bill online. Anyway, she will have to dope him up with morphine and cannapet so she can hopefully cope with a new job at home and doing her own schoolwork in between. I feel so depressed about being in the waning years of my life that I feel paralyzed. I need to research stuff to take care of dog so Z can work, like floor mats to put down in my bedroom so the dog can stay in there and bark his head off when the morphine wears off; or a baby wrap, so Z can hold the dog while she types and talks on the phone, or something to keep the dog from being bored, so that he won’t be barking. But, as I said, it just seems to be impossible to get through all the different items online, and I don’t want to waste money that I don’t have, if the baby wrap doesn’t work out, or the dog mat gets full of pee and has to be thrown out. Taking the dogs for a walk the past three days of the holiday weekend has helped the dog to be calmer. I have to carry the dog like a baby, since his back legs no longer work, and hold the leashes of the other 2 dogs. However, we were lucky that it wasn’t broiling the past few days, as it usually tends to get here. I could walk him in the morning before work, but it is still dark out, so there is really nowhere to walk and not much to see. We can’t go to the park because of brigands and coyotes. It is hard enough just to get ready for work, and I have to drop off the kid’s monster dog at his apartment in the morning on the way to work. Then I pick up his dog from my son’s apartment at 11:30 most days, on my lunch hour, so he can go to work, and drive the dog to our house, and locking her up in Z’s bedroom, and locking up the other dogs in my bedroom, so there are no more dog bite mistakes, then driving back to work. My son’s dog got tired of being alone at his apartment when he was at work, so she chewed the molding off his bathroom door and tore up his carpet and broke the cage she was in. I know this sounds insane and I can see BB shrugging his shoulders now, as we carry out our insanity over and over. I did tell Z and my son years ago, no more dogs, but apparently there was some disconnect there. I doubt that I feel better writing this, but at least there is some progress in that the Hospice dog is not in pain and I don’t have to hold him for hours now, so I have time to write. What a dumb dumb fucked-up shit I am. Maybe someday I will be able to resume therapy, but most Saturdays I am staying at home with the Hospice dog or trying to get some overtime, and once Z gets her new paychecks, she will probably just increase her spending, so I am not getting my hopes up.

  154. thomas verzar says:

    Hi All
    I have been trying to formulate a posting for some time now, as opposed to reacting to someone else’s posting. This is going to be a novel.
    For the past few months I’ve been feeling pretty miserable.
    Why?
    I’ve been feeling lack lustre, no energy, depressed and wondering where to, in my declining years.
    Why did I feel that I am in my declining years anyway? I am 68 years young, healthy, able to walk on my own two feet. Other than my memory is going to shit.
    I wanted to tell you that I am feeling like I am coming to the end of my life.
    Wow baby. What’s going on? Why the gloom, hah?
    Well, it started with my trip back to my place of birth in Transylvania, Romania, last August, for my first ever class reunion. I already told you that I was a mess while there. People were just so nice to me. Warm towards me, Wouldn’t shake my hand, pushed it away, so that they could hug me, kiss me and pat me on my face…….And how are you my dear Tom? …..And how is your life at the ends of he earth?……..So happy that you are here!……..Hope you’ll be joining us at the next class reunion in 2016, when we all turn seventy. ……You will come, won’t you…….It was unbearable all this kindness………They were hurting me with their kindness.
    And while there, in Cluj-Napoca, one day I walked the streets, as opposed to being driven everywhere. It felt weird, and I didn’t know why. I was puzzled.
    Today, I know what was wrong. I didn’t feel at home. After all the kindness exhibited towards me by so many people, I thought, perhaps sub consciously, that I would feel at HOME.
    I’ve observed other people when they go back to their place f birth, and they feel home. I walked next to Suzi in Budapest, and I can see how she is breathing in the place, the people, her friends from childhood. How come I can’t do it? What’s wrong with me?
    Then a few months later we were visiting an elderly family, where the man was a concentration camp survivor. His wife is a beautiful lady, a Catholic. They had two daughters, both in their fifties now. I may have mentioned this before The the old man started to talk about feeling cold. Then he was freezing. Then it dawned on me that he was talking to me about his time in the camp, how he took his socks off and put them on his back to warm himself in the freezing temperature. I got up and started to cry. Later he told me he was 35 kg when he was liberated.
    I didn’t get it. Why was this story hurting me so much? He is not my dad or grandpa.
    What went through my mind was…….how could you do this to this man????…..How?
    Now I realise that his experience in the camp in some way triggered the question in me……how could you do this to me? Why? What did I do to deserve this amount of pain, hurt?
    Then early December the old man died. He was ninety one years old. Although ALL his family were murdered in Auschwitz, he started a new life and had his progeny. And he has grandchildren. These kind of stories always get to me.
    Then recently I saw a movie at the Jewish film festival where a man, who lived in Germany, went back to his country of origin, Hungary, to prove that he was Jewish, so that he could be buried in the Jewish Cemetery. He ended up dying sitting on a chair, inside a Synagogue in his hoe town.
    It always comes back to HOME. Feeling at HOME. I often said that nothing is ever “IT” for me. Nothing that I do in the present, friends I hang out with, work I do, is ever IT.
    I ” do Life”. I don’t “live life”. I want to crawl back somewhere…..into my mother’s arms, to feel at home. Hello!!!!!!
    I am hesitant lately to go and visit my mum’s grave. I absolutely want her to reach out to me and hold me. Do you get that?
    Where are you MUM? I can’t have peace without you. I am like a dog searching for my master, so that I can be united with you.
    MUM !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • jackwaddington says:

      Tom: I sure got that; but I know it was not directed at me. She (your Mum) didn’t. This was another great, great posting. First Larry, then Vicki then now you Tom. But what is so amazing is that all three of you are ‘doing it’. Doing what needs to be done … each of us in our own very different ways. Before I go on; that is not to say that others are not doing it also. But for reasons that I am not yet fully aware of: these three stuck out for me.

      What’s happening for me is that I am due to go to trial in one weeks time. I am to be tried for not leaving my home (trailer) in the trailer park here where I live and walking away from this park. BUT I will fight it for all the strength I still have at this very young age of 82 (back to being the feisty little fucker I was at age one) I doubt I will win even though the law is on my side (an “unlawful detainer” cannot be issued to a home OWNER in a mobile home park, Civil code 798.56 (g) ) since I already intuit that it has already been decided on the golf course as I am sure Barry B can attest., This will be the fifth time I have been hauled in front of a judge on this same matter.

      It’s all a case of “reverse Robin Hood”, BUT … I am not stressing nor am I depressed … I cry instead … and it works …. leat-ways for me.

      Meantime I hope I do not hurt or offend all you others that I did not mention that are posting about their lives here.

      Jack

  155. Miguel says:

    Jack,

    I hope you have success with the theme of your caravan. At least you’re struggling to get it and that says a lot about you. Regarding the pending revolution, I think the attempts of revolution that have departed from liberal democracy and from an open and tolerant society, have failed. We know that liberal democracies have many flaws that need improvement. Both the attempts that have been from the left such as mixed populism as undemocratic socialism and communism and now what we see also it in Greece, as well as by various dictatorships and populist right-wing and now we see something like that such as the national Front in France, have failed. I think we should continue in an open, democratic and continue to make progress toward greater social justice, better distribution of wealth and greater tolerance towards minorities and the feeling society. In this sense I think we are on the right track and making progress. The working conditions of savage capitalism of the nineteenth century no longer exist at least in the Western world or not happen so far. There is no doubt that the rise in the 60s of the environmental movement, hippies, pacifism, primal therapy, etc. are signs that we live in an open, democratic, tolerant and quite fair society. Many totalitarian experiments have condemned millions and millions of people into poverty, misery of a ration card.

    Barry M: thank you very much for your comments. I like your comments as well Muchas gracias.

    Larry, Vicky, Tom: You embroider your comments. If primal therapy were a tapestry to be embroidered, yours would be to put it in a museum, an art gallery.

    Miguel

    • jackwaddington says:

      Miguel: it is only when facing the Justice system that one sees clearly that it is rigged. It’s rigged to favor the rich via big business (considered by most as necessary) at the expense of the poor, poor nations, the very young, the very old and the disabled. Most attorneys spend at least 8 years studying dusty old law book then another 4 to 5 years internship to see how to wiggle the law in ones favor. Just look at any court proceedings. If you have that amount of study of this (incredibly stupid profession) then it can be used to your advantage. Having spent that amount of time; they then want and get massive hourly fees. One of our residents is retaining an attorney who demands $1,000 per hour. No-one in my opinion is ever worth that … whatever they are doing.

      If I were to retain any attorney for less than that amount, the opposition attorney, who are very politically connected, would gobble up my attorney whole. So my chances of winning are slim unless, I Jack, go on the stand myself and make a plea of an emotional nature ( not by crying in front of the judge …. they don’t like, or permit that), and expose, as best I can, the overview of what is taking place here. These high powered attorneys have got the judges in their pockets. I will start my petition by suggesting that this whole case is a “Reverse Robbin Hood” and it is meant to throw me out of the home I owns. An 82 year old man … and if he wishes at 82 to dismantle his trailer then tuck it under his arm and walk away and hope he can place it under the nearest freeway underpass. I do have a few ‘pet’ phrase that might … just might, make it very uncomfortable for the Judge. The opposition got a non jury. I wanted a jury trial, but I did not get a chance to ask for it.

      Why I point all this out to you Miguel is to demonstrate the nature of the system we human live under. We humans are duped (at a very early age when we little realize we are being duped) into believing that “Western Democracy” is “the best we can ever hope for”. to quote Winston Churchill. Any form of Capitalism of what ever compilation, will inevitably bring about what already exist … greed. Greed out of fear that we my be reduced to those ‘terrors of childhood’ when mommy and daddy ruled our universe and brain-washed us until we bought the the concept WHOLE. Having bought the concept whole we now need all the complex machinery to keep it in place. Starting with rule makers (symbolic mommy and daddy) then police (with guns) to keep us all in some semblance of order then Prisons if we strayed from the straight and narrow (backed by religious concept we invented), then a military (sparing no expense) to keep the neighboring countries from conquering us … again. and thus the “Merry goes round and round”

      There is another way … but it eludes us because the brain-washing was so very thorough. Even if the alternative is proposed the neurotic human can only say “But I don’t see how it could work” Little realizing that we are imbued with the notion of ‘figuring out’ how everything works. No-one knows, OR will ever know … until we try it, BUT it could not be more stupid, complex and debilitating than the system we humans have created for ourselves … at the advent of becoming neurotic.

      We all subliminally know it’s madness … but, alas, just accept it, since rallying against it requires hard work … and none of us want that. C’est la Vie.

      Jack

  156. Miguel says:

    Jack:

    I understand and sympathize with what you’re going through and I understand your desire of justice for your situation. Surely there must be better, humane and fairer ways in which humans might live. I think we just differ on how to achieve this. I propose a perhaps a slow change in society and in compliance with a number of freedoms and rights that has taken years to conquer, in a free and open society and minimally progressively. Unfortunately so far the attempts that have been from authoritarian and totalitarian spirit have failed.

    If Karl Marx said that religion is the opium of the people, certainly the amphetamine is the drug of choice of the often violent revolutionaries and their followers, not they have taken that drug, but they behaved as if they have taken it, when they participate in these kinds of situations.

    • jackwaddington says:

      Miguel: For many years now I have had no delusion that there is any justice anywhere. It started when I began to know … from reading “The Primal Scream”.

      There is no need to sympathize with me Miguel … I will survive one way or another. Yes, I feel we only differ on how it might be achieved. For me I wracked my brain for a long time trying to find that SIMPLE solution, since I was aware that all the other solutions I had read or heard about, were too complex and often created more complication in the implementation thereof. See American 1776 & Russian Revolution 1919.

      Attempting to find that SIMPLE solution was quite daunting at first. Where to look and how to see a SIMPLE solution, that did not dictate to ANYONE how to go about it. Sort of leaving it up to us as individuals to go about it in our own good way … especially children. Since I saw that was the methodology of Primal Therapy it began to make sense that we could use that same methodology to bring about our own REAL freedom.

      On reading Karl Marx I was at first struck by his delineation of what was wrong (coined brilliantly to me as ‘Capitalism’) It was in his idea of how to bring about the destruction of capitalism where I felt he committed the human sin of ‘telling the rest of us how we might do it. That for me, never did accomplished anything … like what was promised … nor, I felt, every would. I just knew in my heart of hearts that it had to evolve.

      So the question for me became how might it actually begin to evolve and the only feeling (thought if you like) was that it needed to be just talked about until enough of a critical mass caught onto the notion. As is the way of all human ideas that evolve. Not to become an activist in the cause. The only activism I feel is needed, is to take every opportunity that arises (without pushing, if I were able) to talk to others about it. I does get me to be thought of as mad … but then Copernicus and Galileo were also thought of as mad. All I can do from here on in, is accept that I am considered a mad man. I have learned through my extensive therapy (many miles on the odometer), that it does not bother me anymore.

      Jack

      • Erron says:

        kumrads die because they’re told)
        kumrads die before they’re old
        (kumrads aren’t afraid to die
        kumrads don’t
        and kumrads won’t
        believe in life)and death knows whie

        (all good kumrads you can tell
        by their altruistic smell
        moscow pipes good kumrads dance)
        kumrads enjoy
        s.freud knows whoy
        the hope that you may mess your pance

        every kumrad is a bit
        of quite unmitigated hate
        (travelling in a futile groove
        god knows why)
        and so do i
        (because they are afraid to love

        – e.e.cummings

        • jackwaddington says:

          Erron: Not sure quite why you sent that poem in response to my comment. I guess I will just have to ponder it for a while and see if it comes to me. Maybe you weren’t particularly sending it to me. If it does comes to me I will respond back to you.

          So far, even after a couple of re-reading, all I can figure is that it is full of innuendos … perhaps hints.

          I am beginning to get a sence that that E. E. Cummings was trying to make a comment to Moscow … but it equally applies … sadly … to what is termed “Our brave and noble military men” I see nothing brave about ANY militarization. All I can do is quote back the final line in the book and film – Bridge Over The River Kwai – “Madness … unutterable madness”.

          Jack

        • jackwaddington says:

          Erron: Not sure quite why you sent that poem in response to my comment. I guess I will just have to ponder it for a while and see if it comes to me. Maybe you weren’t particularly sending it to me. If it does comes to me I will respond back to you.

          So far, even after a couple of re-reading, all I can figure is that it is full of innuendos … perhaps hints.

          I am beginning to get a sense that E. E. Cummings was trying to make a comment to Moscow … but it equally applies … sadly … to what is termed “Our brave and noble military men” I see nothing brave or noble about ANY militarization. All I can do is quote back the final line in the book and film – Bridge Over The River Kwai – “Madness … unutterable madness”.

          Jack

          • Erron says:

            Hi Jack,

            It’s about the fascist mind that has to continually browbeat and enforce on others, and how that mind is made from the inability to love, i.e. the inability to feel. Rereading your original post, I’m no longer sure it was relevant, so apologies if it added nothing.

            Erron

            • jackwaddington says:

              Erron: No apologies needed … if it meant something to you that is all that matters. I just wanted to broaden the picture.

              It often becomes so easy to see the fuck-up of others … when, often, we need to look into ourselves. Whether that is our country, our race, our ethnicity, even our gender or just … me!

              Jack

        • Larry says:

          Insightful, evocatively written powerful truth, especially the last paragraph. Makes me want to read more E. E. Cummings, who I never before heard of.

          • Erron says:

            Glad you liked it Larry. I’ve loved cummings since I was a young, brash man, and still do now that I’m an old one! I love picking the meanings and the feelings in his poems, which constantly move and change with my own feelings at the time I read them. But then, I don’t think a static truth is ever destined to be in my possession. And, as cummings himself begins one poem,

            all ignorance toboggans into know
            and trudges up to ignorance again

            I still laugh at that insight every time I read it, fully 40+ years after the first time I saw it. It’s the kind of thing in this man’s poems that make my heart go haywire 🙂

            Erron

  157. Margaret says:

    just another amazing bit of natural behaviour of animals.
    hermit crabs, who use shells to live in and while growing have to move into bigger shells regularly, have a really surprisingly smart behavior.

    when a bigempty shell happens to appear, crabs start approaching and form a line, the tallest crab in front, and so smaller and smaller crabs, patiently waiting in a long line they wait until a big enough crab arrives that likes the new big shell and decides to move out of her former smaller shell into the bigger one, and then the first in line moves into that crabs shell etcetera, they all move up one place shifting their shells in the smartest kind of order.

    i find that amazing and fascinating.

    these things are what spices life into an interesting adventure for me.

    got envious of my cat’s food so bought myself a horse steak to eat with the potatoes I have to cook for my cat, with some cabbage with appples, yummmie.

    don’t eat much meat but it was amazingly tasty.

    poor horse, but well, sorry..
    M

    • Margaret:
      I have to say that the very idea of eating horse meat disgusts me, but I realize horse meat is popular in France….and since you are from French-speaking Belgium it makes sense geographically.

      Ugh, sorry I don’t mind eating crab or a little seafood once in a while, though. Poor crab.

      Also, on an unrelated note: I talk to many people about what happens after death. A common response is: “Well, that’s the great unknown, isn’t it?”

      Maybe they actually answered the question completely accurately from a different angle of meaning and didn’t realize it. Death could be the complete unknowing of anything at all forever and ever (“the great unknown” as referenced above).

  158. Margaret says:

    UG,
    what gave you the idea I live in the french part of Belgium?
    M

  159. thomas verzar says:

    Hi All
    I am often overwhelmed and by the time I start to think what has happened, it’s too late. My headache is full blown and I need to lie down or I will collapse.
    Today, after dropping Suzi off to work, I took a slight detour, as the traffic was pretty bad.
    I happen to go past Bellagio, a local coffee shop near her nursing home, where I took my mum for her last birthday, while she could still sit up..
    Oh, what a mistake. I started to miss her badly again ( like it never stopped). She could hardly talk by then. I pushed her to the coffee shop in a wheel chair.
    My mum.
    She could hardly eat, so she had a coffee only. My last outing with her. She hardly said a thing. We just looked at each other.
    I could look at her. Look at MY MUM. There was nothing else. For months I’ve been visiting her in the nursing home. She was deteriorating rapidly. She was succumbing to dementia.
    Oh Mum! Please don’t go. Please! Please stay! Please! Please mum, don’t go!
    This is killing me.
    I miss her. I miss her badly. Irrespective of the relationship we had. I couldn’t have imagined that her dying would evoke such a loss for me. And this is in spite of the fact that we were really never that close. Never connected. Never connected at a cellular level. I never had her inside me.
    But I miss her. It hurts me. I want her. I will make any deal with the devil, just let me have her.
    Oh Mum! Where are you? Come back I need you. We are not finished. I want you!
    Tom

  160. Margaret says:

    another interesting little bit of knowledge, this time about the spotted hyena. the female is very dominant, and actually has more testosterone than the male..

    went with my female feline to vet yesterday, was a whole experience as she peed in the cage upon departing, so upon arriving home had to clean cage, stairway, wash coat, shoes, trousers, towels, floors, and comfort cat extensively.

    was very tired as it was already evening of a busy day and the taxi home had left me waiting for almost an hour..

    cat is still bit itchy, so medication needs to go on, she has still a sore spot on her head, but is definitely more active and stronger.

    “Otto’, how is your dog?

    Tom, hope you find some peace of mind for as far as possible in living with the awful craving you are stuck with because of the sad history of your childhood.
    all you can do is make the best of it, and that is really what you are doing so well in my opinion.
    wish there was a way I could help you.
    M

  161. Margaret says:

    I went looking to appartments for rent in the neighborhood of the home for the blind. they turned out to be much smaller and much more expensive than where I live.

    I also visited the social worker of the home again, together with my assistant, and at some point the conversation turned into an argument.

    she was condescending and defensive at the same time, and at some point I directly asked her if she was angry about something.

    that opened up the quarrel to a deeper level, the fight became more intense, as there were irritations about some administrative power issues between her and my assistant and also for that reason between her and me, and it started turning me off completely about working together with them, and about moving to that neighborhood to participate more in the activities of the center.

    but it hurt, as the place had felt literally like a safe home to me for a year when I lost my sight, and the idea of still having the option open for the future had appeal to me.

    so at some point I worded not feeling welcome anymore, which brought me close to tears.

    that brought new air in the discussion, and finally when the social assistant said things I needed her to say, that she did have respect for me and that there was an option that might interest me, volunteer work, as I seemed to have a lot to offer, and she even proposed me to come and give computer classes, the atmosphere changed finally for the better.

    it had hurt to be pushed into a powerless dependant position at first, and to be treated with a lack of respect as it felt, but when she kind of acknowledged it and set it right, there came an opening again to maybe engaging in some way in the future.

    i will defnitely check out the volunteer thing, as the lady that does that job sounds enthousiastic and positive.

    but I changed my mind about moving now, as there were not enough clear outlooks on the ‘pro’s’, not even a promise of being able to live there when old and cranky, all the rules seem to have changed so now I am too independent and selfreliant to get on a waiting list, and when old I might be too much on the other side of the scale for them, it is pretty crazy, I think they really aim at a certain subgroup of very simpleminded easy blind people who go along in their system of paid activities with a lot of profit for them, as soon even going into their garden for a chat and a drink will have to be paid as for a half day’s ‘being taken care of’!!

    it is all about money, and there are a lot of things there that rub me up the wrong way, apart of some good things they also offer.

    so now I shifted my plans to saving a lot of rent money by staing here and giving the place where I live a good clean up, painting and fixing stuff etc.

    the rent difference if I count it over ten years, would save me about 30.000 Euros so well, a lot of money I can partly spend on fixing this place, maybe with some agreements with the landlord.

    it was very intense yesterday, looking at appartments and then an hour and a half discussion with that social worker and my assistant, but I feel good about how it went, about what I said and even about getting teary, although it was a little bit embarassing too, it was genuine and deepened the level of communication.

    i stood my ground and gained respect which lacked at first, and finally the social worker did regain my respect by some of the things she said in the end.

    so I sent my own assistant and her a little mail to thank them for the time they invested which allowed us to get to some understanding.

    it was nice my brother found it a good plan to stay in my old place and refresh it.

    bought more cat food on the way home and hurray, in the small store on my corner found the one oldfashioned brand of washing soap that contains the right enzymes to break down every trace of cat urine and leave no smell whatsoever, not even one they can detect.

    so my shoes from the trip to the vet which where peed on on the way over, and the cocos mat she loves are now soaking, smiley..

    trivial to the audience, but important to me I can assure you!

    this whole episod was surprisingly emotionally intense, I guess because it related to the search for a ‘home’ and safety.

    at some point in the discussion it felt good I just told the social worker I would not work with them but take care of my life myself without them. it is hard to convey the intensity of the whole thing, I am not a good story teller either, but hey, it all ended in a constructive and positive way, sifting out the few items that apealed to me

    it is not easy to be dependent for some help of people who sometimes tend to become patronizing or think they have to ‘educate’ you or act superior in some way.

    well, I guess I stood my ground well enough, ha!

    M

    • jackwaddington says:

      Margret: Good for you … that was brilliant you standing up for what you want and need. Yes, as I too see it; officials have their interests ‘down pat’ and seem to care little for those, like you who are struggling with a handicap. Great Margaret, and I hope this comment of mine give you more encouragement.

      Jack

    • Larry says:

      Sounds like a huge and important step for you Margaret. Good for you for standing your ground and looking out for you in a way that was respectful of other people and not destructive.

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Margaret
      Can’t help but agree with both Larry and Jack. You handled the situation admirably. Good on you.
      I can pick up a change in you.
      Keep up the good work.
      And start thinking seriously about the retreat.
      Tom

  162. Margaret says:

    thanks Jack, that was nice of you to say and it feels indeed supportive and encouraging.
    how is your batttle for your own home going?
    M

    • jackwaddington says:

      Margaret: Thanks for asking, but just right now I signed a settlement agreement with the Landlord Company via their attorney. Three days of back and forth finagling, until it was as I liked with the agreement document. Not all I would have liked, but way more than I would have got otherwise and being dragged into court in front of Judge who was on their side, four times.

      Still, theoretically it’s now all over. I have agreed to be out of my trailer in 45 days … signing my title over to them and getting some compensation.

      I will cry as I finally walk away for this very beautiful mobile home park and from my little home that I have lived in for 16 years. That’s all there is going to be left.

      I don’t see that the agreement will be terminated either by them or me. There is a sadness beginning to linger, but I know how to deal with it, mainly by crying.

      I will be going back to stay with my Jim. I/we will operate from there.

      Jack

      • thomas verzar says:

        Hi Jack
        You did an incredible job negotiating with these people. And what’s more important, you recognised how far you can go, and under the circumstances you got a ” reasonable” deal.
        Somehow, after finished reading your posting the second time, I got a little bit tearful.
        There is something graceful about how you saw and dealt with these people, given your age. I am so glad that you can go back to be with Jim.
        Tom

        • jackwaddington says:

          Tom: Yeah!!!! I too felt that I was able to negotiate with a very high class attorney from a very influential law firm … BUT I had one big advantage in my favor. Yes I played the game with him, specifically when he kept saying “No; the company will not go that high or accept more than 10 days to get out”. To which I responde with “OK, then let the whole thing go to trial” and I walked away. After phoning the head man, Jonti, he called me back … five times. After the second time of calling me back, I just knew they wanted this agreemnt more than I did. I called his bluff and lucky for me it paid off. I put it all down to my (Primal) therapy.

          Larry: all can respond to your idea that it seemed inappropriate in light of the sadness is:- Absolutely appropriate! There are instances in life when many things might appear to be what we/I don’t want (as I feel you know yourself), but may have to take whatever ensues … that’s life. From thereon hence, all that is left to cry about the sadness. Least-ways that method has worked very well for me in light of the ‘mileage on my odometer’ … but maybe that’s not the way for others.

          Ultimate Superstar Guru: How about I just give you a ‘terminological-inexactitude’ and say $20.00

          Meantime, it’s not totally wrapped up but 98%

          Jack

          • Jack: I was hoping you would open up and be honest with us. Your life, as you told us before, is an open book. How can you serve and shine as a beacon of guiding light for the rest of us as an advanced Primal patient that truly wants to abolish money if you won’t share the wholeness of yourself and your life with us in a totally honest way?

            All we can see here is that Primal therapy enabled you to negotiate with lawyers for $20.

      • Larry says:

        Congratulations don’t seem quite appropriate in light of the sadness of the resolution, Jack, but I pat you on the back for standing your ground and negotiating the best outcome for you in a fight you couldn’t win in a difficult transition in your life.

  163. Margaret says:

    Tom,
    just curious, how would you describe that difference you pick up in me?
    M

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Margaret
      The change I am starting to see in you is how you seemed to be taking control over your life. Although you struggle in a lot of areas of your life due to your blindness and your history with your mum, I perceive that you are gradually making all the right decisions to better your life and importantly, to gain your academic qualifications to be able to work in your chosen profession.
      You also have incredible tenacity and you are very focused on your goals.
      Keep it up.
      Tom

  164. Larry says:

    My boss told me that she will put it in writing to make it official that she will retire this summer. Until then, she might not be much of a force at the work place because she has to undergo radiation therapy for a stage 2 cancer. I’m also working with a post-doc, who I thought would be around for a few more years, but last week he told me he is done in March,2016 and will leave. The government isn’t in favour of public funded research and has bee reducing staff by attrition. So by Spring 2016, by when the two scientists I currently work for are done, my role at my job will be over. If I want to keep working, I’ll have to ask management to find a place for me, but it won’t be anything near the responsibility, control, and challenge that I’ve worked myself into over the past two decades and taken on until now in the work that I do for the boss I’ve served. Three things that kept me going and gave my life meaning, my dream to make a living in biology, my job, and Noreen, will all be gone soon.

    The idea of retirement, of being alone and adrift, distresses me. I calm down when I accept it will be a life change that I’ll have to embrace as best I can, as I have in several past episodes of my life. I’ll need a dream of what I’ll want to do, where to take my life, and I’ll have to reach out to people and trust they will be there to help get me where I want to go. I feel alone and frightened about it all, about the future.

    It’s so important to have a dream. It’s so hard to have one when you are alone and afraid. I look back and cry as I feel how important it was to our live that Noreen and I found each other, and were there for each other to build upon our dreams and make a worthwhile life together. It wouldn’t have happened for me had I not met her. Without her I would have been too afraid to live much. Alone now, I am afraid a lot and it is hard to do much of anything to move my life forward. I cry as I realize how much she gave me and how much I miss her and how much emptier life is without her and how I’m afraid of the future alone.

    I cry because I’m little, and I need my parents to love me, so I can feel accepted and secure, so that I can feel OK to be me, so that I can believe in life and myself and have dreams and risk to make them real, so that I don’t feel overwhelmingly alone, isolated, lost and adrift as my life ebbs away.

    • jackwaddington says:

      Larry: It is my feeling, and I could be “way off” in responding as I am now, but I feel you are anticipating a glum and futile future. We none of us really know what the future portends. Who know’s, you may get a magnificent break … you’ve certainly done a great deal of “homework”.

      For me, though I confess it may not be your way, but just crying and crying about the contemplation could, I feel, be helpful. I sort of know that you do actually know all this, but am putting in my “two pennuth” in the hope that you might just approach it differntly. In whatever event I sure wish you the very best for that future.

      Jack

      • Larry says:

        My future will be what I try to make it, Jack, and it won’t be much if I’m a frightened, lonely little boy, an outcast needing more than anything else to be held, loved, and reassured. And because I didn’t get that, it won’t be much without this therapy and my trying in spite of my deficits. Always, always running up against walls of fear, that crumble only when I break and cry them, a lifetime of torment I could have been saved from with just a hug.

      • Erron says:

        Just jumping in here to say: so sorry to hear about having to leave your home, Jack. A big cyber hug and best wishes that what follows for you is all you could want and more 🙂

        Erron

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Larry
      Yesterday I was driving my step son to a meeting and were talking about writing. He likes to write for “gaming”.
      Told him about you, how you write, how you take me into your world. How you transport me to a place far, far away, where and how you experience your life.
      Then it occurred to me that if you were to ask me, I would’ve suggested to you to take up full time writing, whether as a hobby or work work. It would be or could be the way to transition out from full time employment into to a a place that you may enjoy.
      Just a thought, as Jack would put it.
      Tom

  165. Leslie says:

    A hug – thanks for the reminder Larry.
    I am amazed and so happy for the little boy in our care – only 19 mos.old – who when missing his Mom at times during the day begins to cry and repeat “Mommy, mommy…”
    We, (any one of our attentive & loving staff) bends down close and offers something like “You are missing Mommy Eli / You need your Mommy right now”… to which Eli nods his head, while lifting his arms and saying “Hug, hug”.
    And of course we stop everything and do!
    So simple, connected and powerful.

    • jackwaddington says:

      Leslie: Wow … so, so, so lovely … and as you say …. SO SIMPLE.

      Jack

    • Larry says:

      Thanks for sharing this Leslie. It is touching, and helps me. The little boy’s need and behaviour and the reaction to him are so natural and appropriate.

      As far back as 3 years old I don’t recall ever asking anyone for a hug. I seemed not able to take the risk I wouldn’t get one, or worse, couldn’t let myself know I needed one.

      I know it now, when I dare to open up to feeling all the way to back then, but when I do I become conscious of such a void that should have been filled, the truth of which is so painful and difficult to accept…that my parents failed to meet my childhood need to the point of destroying my life had it not been for this therapy, because they were unable to give me so simple a thing as a hug, because they were not even conscious or bothered that I might need one.

    • Larry says:

      I’m touched by that little boy’s bond with his mother and that he missed her. I had no such clear and direct attachment to mine. His experience is foreign to me.

  166. Margaret says:

    Leslie,
    wow, this is such a simple thing you do for the kid, but it may make his whole life into a more safe experience, his whole world like a nicer place.

    nice people around to trust and count on, consolation and reassurance available, distress taken seriously and attended to..

    the world not a hostile and dangerous place as a basic feeling starting point.

    this kid being able to ask for a hug still feeling confident of getting it, this really triggers something for me.

    M

    • Leslie says:

      Thanks for your comments Jack, Larry and Margaret. I am glad it meant something to you.
      It still does to me too – every time – which is becoming less and less frequent.
      I think it is that sweet combination of innocence and confidence that gets to me. I think that was pulverized in me so early on…

  167. Margaret says:

    another intriguing specimen of our natural world: the smallest vertebrated animal, and smallest chameleon, is only 29 mm long, but contains it all, vertebrae, long tongue, separately moving eyes etc.

    a tiny miracle of the living world..

    my own furry miracle here is still having trouble getting well completely as it still stays sore on the back of her head, a hard place to protect.

    keeps me worried and I try to dea with it as best as possible, hoping to manage to slowly curing it bit by bit..

    using two creams now, one containing honey and eucalyptus etc., one based on clay, they work but one scratch is enough to open it all up again of course.

    it is taking its toll from me too, wearing me out slowly..

    but we can only do our best, cat and me and vet..

    she is so sweet, came under the covers early morning to snuggle up for a while cosily and warm and safe.

    I relate to your fears about the future Larry, tend to fear too it is all just gonna deteriorate to gloom and disaster but that is merely a feeling and I try not to let it rule my actions.

    not always easy, there is so much I want to do and not enough company or even help to go around..

    again, can only do my best..

    M

  168. Miguel says:

    Tom

    You said:
    “But I miss her. It hurts me. I want her. I will make any deal with the devil, just let me have her.
    Oh Mum! Where are you? Come back I need you. We are not finished. I want you!”
    Tom

    I understand the feelings towards your mother. I also feel that desperation, that kind of itching, that impotence. And I feel that especially when or because I have or try to have a relationship with a girl for whom I have strong feelings but she was not feel the same for me or feels the some way. Then I feel very strongly that need, that loving relationship, to be loved, bonding, total and absolute fusion with the girl and despair at not getting what I want. I think that it’s the closer I can come to feel the bond, bonding with my mother. Directly thinking about that bonding with her I cannot feel it. It’s is through the relationship with a girl. In those moments I cry and feel the urge to hit my head against the wall. After having felt those despair feelings of a failed bonding relationship with my mother, relationships with women are e getting better and better, and generally with other human beings. For me that I’ve had a morbid shyness especially with women that means a lot. Of course in this case feeling the past it really brings you in the present. Mother Child bond is the strongest link in this world.

    This afternoon I go to interview on a local radio. I’m a little nervous but not much. Dr. Barry gives me inspiration listening to his Bernfeld smartpepoplepodcast. I’ll talk about the primal therapy.
    Miguel

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Miguel
      Wish you good luck with your radio interview. I have absolutely no doubt that you will do well. After all, you’ll be talking about our favourite subject, feelings and Primal Therapy.
      Will be thinking of you when i wake up during the night.
      Tom

    • jackwaddington says:

      Miguel: Good luck. The first one is always the worst. Of course I’m talking about ‘stage fright’ from my days of acting. You sure have the background.

      Jack

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Miguel
      So how did the interview go?
      And what is “Bernfeld smartpepoplepodcast”?
      Tom

  169. Miguel says:

    Thank you so much Tom
    Miguel

  170. Margaret says:

    Dear Tom,
    thank you very much for what you said, I try to let it in, it is healing to try to let it in, as it is so opposed to how I tend to regard myself, as lazy and ‘weak’ of character..

    gradually I indeed start to get in touch with some more positive qualities..

    so I will reread what you wrote a few times as it does trigger me somehow..

    and Miguel,
    great, good luck with that interview, and yes, isn’t Barry’s podcast a great interview as well?

    could you put a link to it onhere if you have one please?
    M

  171. Margaret says:

    sorry, this is about the cat again, or about what it triggers for me.

    this morning when I thought using two creams at a time seemed to work better, I felt so much relief that it was only then I noticed how much of a burden of worry this is to me.

    but this afternoon she scratched again and was bleeding and kept scratching while I tried to make her stop and finally managed to do so by getting her food ready.

    now I am slowly recovering of feeling so bad I actually started to get a bit angry at the cat for not stopping the scratching, to which she responded with a protesting plaintive meow, luckily I had controlled my frustration and had not raised my voice too much so it did not frighten her..

    but it is so hard to cope with, as we are almost out of options and she should get better now, it is only a quarter of the initial wound left, but right on the back of her head and hard to cover.

    i have one of these plastic big collars from when she was operated, sterilized, but with part of the wound being in her neck it is risky to try that option.
    also to be honest I’d hate to put that thing on her again, even gthough the first time she adjusted to it even passing through the cat doors with it, rattling and all..

    will just have to keep coping and doing my best, and see where we get, and accept the idea nobody and nothing lasts forever and the time of goodbye is bound to come one day..

    in the meantime she is fairly well, devours her food and purrs easily..
    so all I need is the courage to keep on doing all I can and endure the pain of worrying and feeling scared and frustrated when htings don’t go too well sometimes..

    and hope for the best in the meantime..

    it adds up with all the rest of the pain and anxiety , sadness and loneliness, and the rain and right now thunder and hail and all the uncertainties of life, as a single, as a blind person, renting and still not knowing for sure I can stay, fearing to get old while still being lonely or even more lonely etc.

    but hey, it takes not much to get me up again, less scratching would already do miracles..

    M

  172. Margaret says:

    at least my mom called me twice today to ask me about the cat, and about me..
    she probably forgot she had already called but in fact it felt good to talk a bit about it..

    sad and scared..
    M

    • Leslie says:

      I’m thinking of you Margaret. It must be so hard to do all you are doing for Molimet and for so long too. In more time it will be such a relief to have this behind you – for both of you that is!
      ox L.

  173. sylvia says:

    Hi Margaret. Sorry you are having trouble with kitty. I wonder if claw caps would help. I’ve seen them at Drs. Foster and Smith vet catalog. Though people mainly use them for front paws they can be glued to the back paw nails too. You might ask your vet. Seems like it would be better to scratch an itch with something less pointy than a nail. Anyway, good luck. I always feel very helpless when any of my pets are ill. Take care.
    Sylvia

  174. Jo says:

    Margaret,
    My dog had similar skin problems. I used pure essential lavandar oil directly. It obviously stung her on the open wounds, but then she relaxed and the condition cleared really quickly in very few days.
    Jo

  175. Margaret says:

    thanks Leslie and Sylvia!
    M

  176. Margaret says:

    hi Jo,
    thanks, I will certainly discuss it with the dermatologist and remember it in any case to give it a try at some point.
    now the creams are also quite natural, based on clay, and the other on honey and different herbs.
    they both work but right now the clay seems best, in the right dose to dry up and heal without itching too much or stying wet and soft.

    today we seem to make some progress again, but maybe it is again a case of progress in the morning and ‘despair’ in the afternoon..

    I have a tray of food ready at hand to distract her if the itching would start, her stomach seems still to come before her skin, smiley..

    she behaves well, litterboxwise and otherwise, eats like a woolf and gains weight again, so maybe things will get better bit by bit.

    i try to calm her when the itching starts as when we get nervous it gets worse.

    so food at hand, cream at hand, and freshly washed suits at hand, even in the middle of the night if necessary, and we are still seemingly making some progress. such big part has healed already, the last patch seems the hardest, isn’t that always the case??

    the day she is fine and the suit can go off safely will be a day of celebration for both of us!!!

    luckily she remains sweet and patient and visibly knows the treatment helps her, she sits up still most of the time when I put on the cream and also when I cut off some stuff occasionally..

    so things could be much worse I guess, and today the sun also starts shining, which makes it all look less hopeless..

    thanks for the feedback, it really helps.
    M

  177. Margaret says:

    today first day cat really seems to make improvments, has scratched just a little but without hurting herself, so have almost not had to put exrra cream on and it is all dry and healing in the meantime..

    she eats still like a woolf so I just keep feeding her, the double amount of what should be ‘normal’, but hey, she has to regain a lot of weight and has to heal, and it calms her down and it is good to see and hear her smeck away at her mashed potatoes with horse meat..

    recycling, if I’d die eat away from me, smiley..

    but hey, to be honest I hate to think of any animal being killed at a slaughterhouse.

    and I got my new study case to analize, for the statistics exam, too bad it seems much more complicated than the former one, but will have to do it anyway!

    and then a young guy studying at a film academy here, asked me if he could make a human interest documentary about me studying and dancing the tango for his school, they’d come over with a filming crew, all students to my house for the work on my computer etc., and then another appointment at a tango dance event..

    have agreed conditionally for the moment, depending on cat and on dance calendar, as they have to do theirr assignment under time pressure as an extra challenge, so it would be in the next few weeks..

    and then next week I have an appointment with somebody who organizes volunteer or regular work for blind people, to get some information.

    all scary but also challenging..

    next week I see my statistics teacher again, we will update some of the software and solve some new tasks of creating new subvariables or joining some of them together into bundled variables, necessary to do my new analysis.

    so a lot to do the coming time, hope and pray my cat keeps getting better!!

    we expect our first real spring day on sunday, hurray!

    still feel overwhelmed and scared etc. but just have to live with it and keep moving, like wading through the waves of the ocean with some kind of backpack on, sometimes even fun, other times scary and cold.

    will remember what Tom said about taking comtrol over my life, when I get tempted to cancel some of my appointments..

    Larry, I wonder about that friendship you started to develop with the lady friend, is it still evolving?

    I hope you get pleasure out of all the things you do, the photography, the dancing, the social groups you form an active part of.

    is there anything you really would like to do, and could take an initiative for and maybe invite other people you like to join you?
    you have such a wide range of interests, and when you will have more time it would be nice if you’d enjoy having it to do things you like with people you like, you deserve it.

    M

  178. Larry says:

    Hi Margaret. Nice to be thought of by you. Thank you for your interest.

    I’m not sure which lady friend you are referring to. There are a couple of nice ladies in my bereavement group where the interest and attraction between me and each of them is mutual. I’ve gone out with each of them, and enjoyed being with them, but it doesn’t feel like there could be a happy healthy unfolding of a deepening friendship with them. It feels like they are stuck in their grief and afraid to get on with life, and they hope for someone to come along and ease their grief. It won’t be me. I’d want to help them confront it, which they don’t seem inclined to want to do. There is attraction, but I need some common interest and some openness, some self-awareness and introspection, some emotional honesty, some embracing of life, from someone to become involved with that person, even just as friends.

    Whereas bleakness weighed upon me from the isolation of long dark cold winter exacerbated by the physical wearing down of a cold virus that hung on for weeks and weeks draining my energy and vitality, and I feel bad that since November I haven’t been able to make myself go to dances, I’ve had some really good times with people from the singles group and from the Unitarian congregation, that lifted my spirits and energy level tremendously, a reminder lesson to me in how important good times with good people are in our life.

    In January and February, when my mental energy was at its’ lowest, I undertook one of my most challenging projects yet at work. Over the past couple of months I’ve devoted a lot of my time to trying to learn a new procedure that none of my peers have used or understand, to analyse data from our last two summers’ insect surveys and field trials. My anxieties kept telling that I’m punching above my weight and I will ultimately fail and will have wasted months of time. But to my great satisfaction and sense of achievement, I’ve come to full understanding and confident application of the method, and will analyse the data and interpret and explain it for my supervisors. It’s been a very rewarding challenge. It makes me wonder even more what will I do with myself and where will I get the mental stimulation and sense of achievement when my role at work ends by this time next year.

    My life will change dramatically as I enter retirement, and I’m afraid that without my job that uniquely suits some of my talents and shortcomings, I will have a difficult time managing all the free time I will have, alone. As a transition to retirement, all winter I’ve been taking Fridays off, and the extra free time is unsettling. This winter I have my biggest feelings, my deepest full bodied cries, on my Fridays off, and am learning a lot about myself and the emptiness in my soul. I have a low grade anxiety, a sense of impending doom regarding approaching retirement, alone, while at the same time feel glimpses of excitement and opportunity to do what I want and try new challenges and experiences if I dare.

    I’m inspired by the challenges and successes you are having.

  179. Margaret says:

    Tom,
    a good suggestion to Larry, and I’d add even more as Larry, you could combine it with your photography and knowledge about insects and nature and all you learned doing your job etc.
    just an idea..

    lately I missed dreaming in a very meaningful way, as my dreams seemed confused mostly, and it seemed no feelings were coming up anymore, pleasant or otherwise.
    but last night the gates opened again for sure..

    I dreamed and dreamed, after waking up, several times, including to take care of the cat, more dreams, with all kind of feelings, sadness mainly at first, then hopelessness and finally fear.

    I specially remember the moment in the dream I just sat down on a path, with my head in my hands, feeling I could not go on anumore, worn out and empty and hopeless..
    then I heard someone approach and looking up saw Barry by my side, looking at me full of empathy, warmth and compassion.

    i reached out and first put my hand on his shoe, but then we held hands, and all I could think of saying was thanks for coming to me, but actually nothing needed to be said, his mere presence enabled me to sink deeper in the feeling and deal with it better..

    then a last dream before waking up confronted me with fear, building up to terror.
    the setting was being in a car, parking near a steep abyss, and coming too close for my comfort. I said so but the frpeople in front did not seem to mind.
    there was water deep down in the canyon, and when the driver left the car I told him to put the break on so we would not roll backwards into the abyss. but of course we started rolling, and I screamed to the woman in the front seat to pull the hand break, and also reached out and pulled it myself, but to no use as the car kept rolling and even gained speed and it was clear we would very soon roll backwards into the canyon and into the water deep down.

    panic had struck me by then but I remembered someone recently told me cars had to have manual window openers in the back for cases like this, when electricity would not work, so I yelled it at the person in front and searched for the window opener, finding it, starting to turn it, but gasping for breath and almost paralysed with fear when I woke up..

    so well, a wellspent night..

    I woke up from my cat so had to get up to feed her and look after her skin, but felt kind of well, ‘lighter’ being a good word..

    so cat is fed, cream is put on her, and coffee and breakfast are standing here, so that’s it for now..

    M

  180. jackwaddington says:

    Just to let you all know that my little brother (two years my junior) died half a hour ago.

    I am crying and will no doubt do a lot more. We have had many moments together, even in adulthood and we were close.in many ways. We could be very open with one another though we did not always see eye to eye … but I loved him nonetheless.

    He is the first of my three siblings to die.

    Jack

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Jack
      Very sad. To me it would feel like a part of me were torn out.
      Cry Jack. It is so sad. And you lived so far apart from each other. Distance does come into it.
      Sad.
      Tom

    • Larry says:

      If I was in charge, I would have designed things differently….with a lot more care. If there is one thing that angers me about life, it’s loss. May you experience your loss wisely and deeply, Jack.

      • jackwaddington says:

        Larry: Yes; that is exactly what it is for me … my loss.

        As Art wrote in a recent article of his when something he saw on the news touched him deeply, but very quickly realized that it had pushed upon an old grief of his own.

        That; I feel is what being in the “feeling zone” means … least-ways for me.

        \Jack

    • Leslie says:

      I am sorry to hear about your brother’s passing Jack.
      It must be so hard…
      ox

      • jackwaddington says:

        Leslie: No! not hard, just sad and needing to express that sadness invariably by crying.

        It has worked me for some time now. I don’t find crying a ‘big deal’, though Jim does not like to see me crying … so best I can I try to have my crying when he’s not around.

        Jack

        • Patrick says:

          ….crying…………..I cry………….I brag about my crying……………I cry some more…………..I cry about crying……………..I am a crying super star……………a crying cyborg……………a crying road warrior………………..and for sure a crying keyboard warrior………….what bragging rights I have with myself at least…………..brag………..brag……………brag some more………………cry again……….brag again……………

          At least that is how I mostly see it………………I said ‘mostly’ there might be something genuine there but not much they way I see it.

  181. Larry says:

    Margaret and Tom, thanks for your interest and support. I appreciate it. When I retire from my work, I’ll in effect retire from a ‘family’, from one of my stable long term communities, from stimulation, challenge, comraderie, from my purpose in life and my reason for getting up and out on cold dark winter mornings. I’m already battling against too much aloneness in my soul, and the trouble for me with photography and writing is that they are mostly solitary endeavours letting me slip too easily into isolation…my world becoming just me and my fears.

  182. Margaret says:

    Jack,
    so sorry, it must be painful as it sounds like you and him indeed shared some good stuff.

    if you feel at some point like sharing some of that, it would be nice to hear about it.

    I guess it brings up some feelings for me about me and my brother, playing with him as a kid, cowboy and indians, or mostly both being indians as we did not feel like being cowboys, climbing trees, wrestling on the lawn, ridng our bicycles, playing table football and badminton, digging holes in the garden and playing with marbles, created a special world for ourselves, filled with fantasy and simple joy of life.

    always feel protective of him, and want him, my big brother, to like me, love to make him laug..

    so when you feel like it, would love to hear about the things you guys did together, but if not that is fine of course, M

  183. Patrick says:

    Jack – I am sorry to hear about your brother. In the ‘modern’ way I suppose I thought this was a kind of nice and interesting talk about siblings. I thought the ending was quite good the idea that siblings is somehow deeper and more long lasting than most relationships.

    I was struck by this over the Summer when I spent a week with my older brother and most evenings we watched World Cup soccer games together. There was something about that…………..it’s like for all my travelling and searching I was never or would be ever closer to anybody. We puzzled together about what club team that flying winger for Columbia or then great goalkeeper for Chile played for and this went on night after night. At the end of the week it felt sort of achingly beautiful.

    I think the position in the family can be a major thing as this guy talks about in the video. Jack you were the oldest which accounts in many ways I think for your ‘take charge, tell it how it is’ ways.I was second in the family 14 months younger than my older brother and always a bit ‘in his shadow’. It is now beginning to be realized also that in modern societies very often the following children came too soon……………….if a woman breastfeeds there would literally not be enough there to conceive so quickly. So breast feeding was a natural contra-ceptive in the ‘old days’

    Too many children has been a problem, if my Mom breast fed my older brother there would have been ‘more’ for him and “I” might have come along 5 years later in which case there would be more for “me”. Sounds kind of absurd I know but right from the beginning we were ‘scrapping’ for scarce c commodity. Women are very ‘depleted’ by having a child it’s a huge deal and the breast feeding keeps them ‘depleted’ so they won’t conceive until they are strong enough to do so

    Anyway Jack I wish you all the best during this time……………….and in a strange way you were an older brother to me though my rebellious competitive underdog proving himself kind of ways I would never admit it……………….

  184. jackwaddington says:

    Thanks to all of you sending condolences to me, Tom, Larry, Phil, Leslie, Margaret, Gretchen, Patrick and all others that may write me later. I cried reading them all. I cried as I awoke this morning knowing that my ‘little’ brother will never see this day.

    What I really know is that I cry for ‘my’ loss, even though for some years now I have not seen him, but I phone each of my siblings on their birthday and Christmas. Now I reflect that I will not be able to phone him any more.

    At this moment I am reflecting on sadness and the relative ease with which I can cry (my therapy) and wonder … if it is pain. Sad yes, but I truly wonder if that is pain or the very antithesis of pain. I wouldn’t ever chose to cry, as that means there is something to cry about … but as the ‘old wives tale’ goes “there’s nothing like a good cry” to relieve the anguish … pain if you like … it’s mine, it belongs to me.

    I don’t think, as of right now, I need to write here about my memories of and with my brother, Margaret. I can and have and will share then with my greater family.

    Meantime, there is a home to pack and get out before April the 10th.

    Jack

  185. Miguel says:

    Jack, sorry about your brother.
    Miguel

  186. Margaret says:

    Jack,
    good to hear you will have your relatives to turn to.

    my own brother came by yesterday, and when he looked at the cat he thought I might start considering putting her to (eternal) sleep. I think his main concern is she takes up too much of my time impeding me to socialize.

    I can only keep treating her, and hear what the vet says at my next visit.

    she does not seem to feel too bad, yesterday slept on my belly on the couch while I was listening to a book, without her ‘suit’, for a long time. this morning she crawled under the covers with me and we had a nap together, and a second one when she moved to the end of the bed.

    overall there is still some improvment, but also patches that are not healed..

    I got the ok to start working for my statistics exam, planned about 12 june.
    my mentor walked in when I was adjusting the last bits of software with my teacher, and she was so thrilled we go for the w
    exam that she suggested a cover interview with me for the university review ‘Modulair’ for me.
    of course I agreed, in case they are interested, will be nice to give them both credit for their help!

    as I am in the middle of it it does not really feel like a big deal anymore, it is only when I explain how I managed to make it happen, I hear what an undertaking it really was, getting familiar with Apple, Voice-Over, then ‘R’, the stats software, and finally applying the statistics theory with it all combined to produce a complete case analysis and evaluation well, as far as we have learned so far..

    have started now on the analysis, I think it will be about two months work, and then another month to refresh the theory where necessary..

    can’t think about it too much as that would make me nervous, just focus on what lays right ahead of me is the best thing to do, and take all other stuff to do one bit at a time.

    have to do the ‘human interest’ film with home filming of study etc. and tango dancing too, brrr, and so much other stuff, sometimes I can’t bellieve how busy I am these days.
    if I’d not take it one bit at a time I’d be completely overwhelmed..

    tried to put my profile on LinkedIn but only managed to open it and make some connections, but my poor visitors find an empty profile, to my frustration..

    asked my former dance partner to come by and give me a hand some day, as all other people I know are too busy already with other stuff, for me and otherwise, or are not familiar with this kind of thing..

    I hope I did not put stuff on it by mistake I did not mean to put there, at some point I know I almost selected some personal files accidentally..

    will let that rest for now, the trouble seems to be I can fill in some stuff, but their button to finish up adding it there is not labelled so I can’t find it,it probably is only a visual kind of thing arch!

    oh well, back to statistics now, enough procrastinating
    M

  187. Otto Codingian says:

    Gee, Z, why wouldn’t I be anxious? Maybe you have gotten a job (MAYBE), and MAYBE you will get paid in a month and a half. But the car and rent and rx and dog/cat rx etc. still need to be paid NOW. I still owe 10,000 plus in taxes. What is so fucking difficult to understand? I work myself into a frenzy stating that I need to work overtime next Saturday and you don’t want me to??? The overtime that suddenly became available when the cheap Scottish bastard who was my supervisor left, and now the new supervisor is giving out overtime like it was Halloween candy…! I stayed home today to take care of the anxious barking, doesn’t-want-to-be-alone Hospice Dog (who will probably live another 5 years), so you could get caught up on your college courses. I called out sick so many days and weeks now to keep him from barking so you could do the pre-requisites to get the fucking job. All you fucking have to do is say nothing, bitch, because you always get your own fucking way. All you can do is spend money on nothing, and I get no therapy, and you wonder why I am hateful to you. Now you got to go pick up JBC, so he can hang out, and go to lunch with him (when you are supposed to be doing your college work), because I stressed you out about me getting frantic about saying I need to work overtime still. JBC, I don’t want to think meanly about my own son, especially when the other son has said we are dead to him because we complained about his fucking cunt wife. But, JBC, I have had to drop your dog-biting dog off at 6 in the morn at your apartment a few days a week, then bring her back here to our house at lunch (taking a longer time than I am supposed to from work), because your dog does not like being alone while you are at work and therefore she destroyed part of your apartment. So you are going to come hang out…hmmm perhaps you could go clean up her fucking dog shit in the backyard? No, because I was never able to ask you to do chores, and I am a stupid dishrag doormat kind of victim person. And primal institute, thanks so much for moving out of that beautiful big building, where I used to use a room from time to time. Hospice Dog is now on Gabapentin for anxiety, just to knock him out, so he does not bark and does not need to be held. I am going to steal some of his gabapentin because it says sometimes it makes you talkative and social., and I when I can finally get Z to watch the dog on a Saturday afternoon, and when I can finally afford it, I am going to come back to group and open my mouth for a fucking change. FAT CHANCE ! The B’s will have retired by then…I am constantly feeling horrible, facing the end of my life, facing the end of the dog’s life, facing the end of Z’s life. Old age has certainly accelerated in our lives. What a fucking joke. What a fucking nightmare. I had to beg for sex last year, now I don’t even want to have sex. Ok, negativity. Ask me if I fucking care. Writing this was the highlight of my day! Oh yeah, always being reminded of Animal Research (barking dogs etc being tortured) where i work in Bldg 114, and while looking up pain meds for the dog, i also read what they did to rats to figure out if the pain med works, and not being able to do anything about it.

  188. Otto Codingian says:

    Now she says “I care. Just because I had to shake it off I care and have your back”. Ok, but I am still nuts, whatever…i am still a bitch. disgruntled dirty angry old man.

  189. Otto Codingian says:

    and the new clothes she is always wearing, purchased out of her secret account, and the slightly new clothes that are going out the door to the mission, because she has piles of clothes strewn all over her bedroom, so she has to get rid of some of them. just kick me in the balls and get it over with. bitch bitch bitch

  190. Larry says:

    “It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men” (Frederick Douglass, 1817-1895).

  191. Otto Codingian says:

    trying to listen to some 80;s music and get my groove on andi skip down to the comments and see this:
    “Always loved this one. One of my favorites. I am not a teenage girl either. I’m a hetero man in my 40’s and I’m not ashamed to like this. It’s a good song.
    When I met my wife in 1986 as a teen, she dressed just like madonna in this video LoL. We have been together ever since. I am losing her to cancer. When she goes i will never be able to watch this video again or listen to this song. Fact, I’ll probably put a bullet in my head and join her. That was dark, was it not? LoL but seriously, if you’re too young to have experienced the 1980’s I am sorry for you. You missed the best decade of the last 50 years and it’s been downhill ever since. the 80’s were awesome.” ok cant get away from death,,,,,ouch

  192. Otto Codingian says:

    why this make me tear up— ray of light madonna? hope? positive?

  193. Margaret says:

    phew!.. worked almost five hours today summarizing three ququarter of the tests I did yesterday..
    and this is only the beginning of many more tests and summaries before this data analysis will be done.

    I, as most people probably, always regarded statistics mainly as just gathering data and tehn looking at them and drawing comclusions, ha!!

    but I must say it is interesting to do, the results are very specific and detailed and often surprising, and the probabilities they give are quite reliable, if one takes good care of all the conditions and particularly of not inferring causal relationships for no reason. I kind of like it, as it resembles a multidimensional kind of puzzle, giving reliable data in regard to a specific set of data gathered under strict conditions.
    no certainties presumed, only probabilities that can be judged on their significance and doublechecked with larger samples if necessary.

    i like the cleanness with a certain amount of freedom, there is even an item with the name ‘degrees of freedom’, smiley

    it’s a lot of work though and I’d never want to do it for a living, would become tedious and already gives me a sore neck and shoulders and cramp in my fingers..

    but it is intriguing, surprisingly so for me, as iI always hated maths..

    nice to be able to take pleasure out of it unexpectedly so!!
    it helps the cat seems to be doing better today, I might try and give her half a dose of cortisone every day now, instead of an entire dose one day and nothing the other day as the vet suggested. have to go there or at least call her tomorrow anyway, depends on state of cat tomorrow, her appointment is only in eight days from now..

    sorry if I bore anyone, smiley, but this feels like wrapping up the day somehow..

    have made an appointment with dance partener to deal with Linkedin and its hassles.
    unexpected people pop up there and I want to be able to get in touch or at least offer them something to read and look at..
    and I q
    want to be able to look at what they show!

    so still busy, fear the filming but don’t want to cancel it. it is not so much the filming but all the energy it wil take to receive a bunch of young guys here during the day who want to film me studying et c., and then in the evening film me while dancing the tango, feel tired already just thinking of it besides all my other stuff..
    oh well, if I am tired they can film that as well, part of me isn’t it?

    M

  194. Larry says:

    Lots of crying today. Loss. Goodbye. It’s been 5 1/2 years. Still crying good-bye. I don’t know how people go on who don’t cry out the hurt. What do they do with it? There’s so much! Never before have I experienced anything so deep with anyone. I guess that says a lot about my life.

    Letting go. I’ll never hold her again. To share life was so pivotal, so precious, so brief, so fragile. Never again.. It still feels like the world…everything… must stop…to repair a tear in the fabric of reality,,,to straighten the tipped universal balance,..to undo the accident…to correct the mistake,

    But no! Individual life is finite, ephemeral. Death is final, eternal. Loss is infinite.


  195. thomas verzar says:

    Hi All
    Woke up this morning, like lots of other times, with some sort of dialogue going on in my head, in my sleep.In the past I used to try and remember, what the conversation was about, but I could never remember, once I actually woke up.
    TaTa!!!!!
    This morning I realised, that it is not about the content, but the sheer fact that “someone” is actually talking to me. It felt like I was caressed. And it felt like all the other times as well.
    Then I remembered a particular scene in my childhood. My mum and dad and I were walking home after a day around a swimming pool, in a park. I would ask questions of my dad, like how was the universe made, what is gold, how do they make air planes etc, etc and etc.
    It didn’t matter what the subject matter was. What mattered was that I had my father’s attention. This went on during summer, year after year. Until one day my dad told me it’s enough. So no more attention to me.
    And for years I wake up listening to someone talking. I hardly ever dream.
    That’s it. No more for me. And I wonder why I feel always deprived.
    What a day. Later this morning we had a meeting with some people assisting Guy to get into a community living accommodation. Afterwards, we all got into my car, and I drove us to the house.
    We drove past a coffee shop where I took my mum for her last ever coffee for her last ever birthday over three years ago. I pushed her there in a wheelchair, from around the corner, where she was in a high care nursing home.
    Ahhhh. Mum! YOu and I will never have coffee again together.
    And then as I continued driving, and I actually went past that nursing home. Oh that hurts. And once, yes once, she even told me I am a good son. Once.
    Tom

  196. Margaret says:

    just sent a mail to cancel the filming next week.
    it just feels like too much right now, mostly because of the cat, as otherwise I’d like to do it.
    but with all the stress and being drained and finally the cat slowly seemingly making some progress sending the cancellation actually felt like a relief.

    and a pity, but my main goal is now getting the cat better and coping with all the things I really need to do, keeping the stress to a level I can cope with.

    i loved the idea of dancing while being filmed but hey, on the other hand it is just a school project and the idea of a whole day several guys here in my place distressing the cat and then going out that same evening too to dance right now feels like the thought puts too much stress on me.
    have to go to university, to the vet with the cat, and to an organization for people who rent, apart from all the rest, shopping with assistance, doing administration with other assistance, spending an evening with someone to cope with LinkedIn, and working on my stats assignment, my plate seems full enough. and oh yes, maybe the interview for the university magazine..

    so yes, I feel very sorry, but it also feels ok to make my own choices and choosing my priorities.

    it is lovely to see the cat gaining energy so I will only go to the vet next week and hope to keep watching her closely and helping her to get better.

    feeling good right now is what counts, more and more I feel life is now, not in a dream about some future…

    still a shame about the filming, but it is what it is.

    and no, Larry, no retreat for me this year, another free choice that feels ok.
    have to make my life pleasant and too much on my plate feels not good.
    please miss me there, smiley!

    hopefully I will be celebrating a succesful stats exam by then while missing you all!
    only have a short time window too then to do a next exam about neuropsychology and cognition, so my plate won’t be too empty.
    and oh yes, cleaning and painting up the place. lord wow, sigh, that is after I make a deal with landlord about staying here..

    M

  197. Margaret says:

    the Comodo-dragon, a huge kind of lizard of over 6 meters long, able to kill a buffalo, can reproduce by partenogenesis, meaning the female lays eggs that hatch without being fertilized by a male.
    they can even produce male young, using their own different kinds of special chromosomes.

    next to the testosterone full hyena female and the giant deepsea catfish that simply absorbs the tiny males that bite themselves into her skin, slowly getting consumed up to their genitals that are then used for fertilization, another amazing kind of animal female emancipation, smiley..

    then there was a whole intriguing explanation about a small insect, an ‘afin’ or something similar, I did not know the English name, that puzzled entomologists for centuries. I am sure Larry must know more about it.

    their species consists almost entirely of females, the males almost extinguished for not needed..

    turns out afins produce males in autumn to prevent complete inbreeding, but in all other seasons just women producing more of the same..

    they also already carry embryos before even being born themselves.

    ok now I see, we call it, in Flemish, a leaf louse..

    and then there are the snails, who are both male and female at the same time, so when having sex they must have twice as good a time, smiley, as they well, do it to each other, slimy little beggars..

    ok, back to statistics now, Margaret..

  198. Larry says:

    Global warming feels real serious and is particularly getting me down recently. Probably something personal and deeper than my usual personal stuff is brewing in there too.

    Here is some climate hope:

    http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/climate-hope-1.2990799

    • Patrick says:

      Yes Larry I find that can be a ‘crippling’ effect – I mean personally in that it is so huge of a problem and something that seems impossible to solve. But that’s good maybe there is some hope on the horizon, I have heard of Tim Flannery he is very sound scientist and person, I even ‘tried’ to read one of his book about 5 years ago but gave up not because the book was ‘bad’ but because it was ringing too true. I still have it here somewhere I think. I had the same problem recently with Naomi Klein’s book about the climate problem……………..I also ‘tried’ to read it and had to give up

      Nowadays I generally ‘avoid’ reading about global warming like there is stories in the papers these days about how California has like one year of water left (and then what…………) but I don’t know because I don’t read……………there was something else yesterday about the situation in Antarctica is ‘worse’ than scientist predicted…………it’s ALWAYS worse so I ‘avoid’……………I don’t like living in ‘denial’ I don’t think that is a good way to live but I am…………for my own mental balance, I just can’t deal with this on a daily basis. And if a ‘solution’ is in the offing it will come or not come regardless of what I am reading and thinking.

      I don’t really feel comfortable or like being like this it is not the way I like to live and I begin to sound like a ‘stupid American’ as some of us used to say………what that means is the mentality of “I’m all right Jack” so I don’t concern myself with bigger worries or issues.. Individualism and selfishness praised and carried to a principle…………a principle of denial and hiding from reality.

      Since this is a ‘primal’ blog……………there was one time I was about 7 or 8 y.o. and my brother who was a year older were out ‘working’ (actually we were working that should not be in brackets) with my Dad and it was late, dark and we could see all the lights in the houses on in the peninsula where we lived. And my Dad said to us…………..one day all those lights will be off all will be gone. It will be completely dark. And we are like why?…………and his ‘prediction’ was everyone would leave, would leave the country side and move to the city (I suppose) and it was so sad, I felt so sad…………..like he was saying where we lived the place we lived had no future.

      And now thinking about it I always ‘admired’ my Dad and ‘loved’ him I could say but this was a bit typical of him he was putting into me (us) his own fears. His own sadness and feeling of hopelessness he was giving to us. I mean it was the real him and I ‘loved’ him for that he was sharing himself so to speak the real him. And I got hooked on that kind of ‘depressing thinking’ too almost in honor of him or because I loved him. But in that instance at least he was kind of ‘wrong’ so maybe today I kind of take that attitude towards global warming………….maybe some people I really ‘respect’ are telling me but what if they are ‘wrong’ so maybe I have an ‘out’ there………………..though deep down I don’t think they are wrong like with my Dad I really and totally ‘believe’ them………….

  199. jackwaddington says:

    I was mentioning to Jim, my partner, last night that I still couldn’t quite beleive that my little brother is gone. I know intellectually, but somehow in my mind it was/is hard to accept. Then Jim just said to me simply “Have you said ‘good bye’ to him?” and immediately I burst into tears and cried out “Good bye my darling Ian … goodbue” and suddenly the shear simplicity of those words became clear.

    I woke in the night to go and pee and again I just said those words again. It feels a lot more like closure … now.

    I will see as time passes. It is sort of strange Jim saying that, not being a Primal person … just someone that really cares about me.

    Jack

  200. Patrick says:

    Speaking of “Good-byes” reminds me of a song which usually things do…………..and it seems nobody does or did it better than John Lennon at least for our generation…………good-bye can be and is for the the most painful thing of all……………..maybe more so if the person is still ‘living’ (but dead to me)……………

  201. Patrick says:

    It just occur\s to me now I would never say “Good-bye” to someone still ‘living’ maybe it’s an “Irish” thing but it’s like people would not do that? Or would they? It seems they can and do………….to me it seems to violate the very nature of life………….oh well just my feeling as they say (a way of ‘dismissing’ it which I never have liked) and maybe it’s just St Patrick’s Day so I am allowed a bit of nostalgia and ‘wishful thinking’………………even if it is ‘just my feeling’………….really I hate that…………..my feelings are REAL or certainly as ‘real’ as anything else…………………don’t mean to ‘crowd you out’ here Jack it’s quite moving what you say………………

  202. Patrick says:

    Speaking of John Lennon and yesterday being St Patrick’s Day this not very much known song came to me…………………..

  203. Margaret says:

    patrick,
    I am a John Lennon fan but for some reason I can never detect the links you post with my screenreader. it is often the case on the blog, depends of how the links are made up probably..
    M

  204. Patrick says:

    OK Margaret I will sent them both to you now ‘on the side’ The one about the Irish seems in a way a bit of ‘joke’ kind of song…………..but then I’m thinking maybe only a ‘joke’ to me as I inter-nalized most of all the English propaganda as it was designed to do. Get people doubting and in the end hating themselves then you don’t even have to ‘fight’ them anymore. I have suffered from that big time doubting and hating myself . But no more!! Well maybe sometimes it is deep in me but I like to think I am ‘freeing’ myself a bit and even getting behind a song like that feels right in a way…………..

    BTW I am not saying that only the Irish have suffered in this way (genocide pretty much) it of course have here in the US this country is pretty much BASED on that, genocide first and slavery quickly behind gotta have someone to do the work now that all the natives are slaughtered. It happened of course in Australia too and Africa and…………..and ……………and the list is long maybe that’s what Jack means by ‘neurosis’ being a debilitating disease it does seem to have been sadly a pretty ‘universal’ force.

    And I don’t kid myself this is only in the past………………..look at the fact Netanyahu has been ‘elected’ again……………..one thing for sure behind that is the Palestinians have MUCH more suffering ahead of them. Genocide and slavery are pretty much already their condition. It is happening right in front of our eyes and nobody even ‘bats’ one (an eye that is)………….’neurosis’ is indeed a debilitating disease and also one that ‘blinds’ speaking of eyes even the “Great” Arthur Janov (I say that with quite a bit of irony) ‘sees’ nothing there it seems he likes to write blogs about how much ‘hatred’ the Arabs have…………………but he ‘explains’ it see it is just their “First Line Pain’ transmuted into some kind of in-accountable ‘political hatred’ that is somehow shepherded by their ‘ideology’………………..silly people them if only they would ‘feel’ their “First line Pain” they would not be so angry, I have the feeling if they were to do that they might be more ‘angry’ in that they could see more clearly what is being done to them……………

    Any way sorry Margaret for the ‘rant’ I will send you those now…………….

  205. Patrick says:

    Speaking of inter-nalizing the message of the oppressor……………….I had this memory/meditation walking on the beach yesterday. i am 12 y.o. preparing hard for my big exam, the exam if I do well will take me away from the farm away from all the muck and hard work. it feels VITAL that I do well (and get away) otherwise I am stuck there maybe forever.

    Anyway I am studying ‘geography’ countries, towns, rivers, big cities etc and I have a map of England and Ireland in front of me. The ‘great’ English cities and what they do what they did to become ‘great’ (It was VERY important in the family what we ‘did’ value only came from hard work and industry, a place was defined by what people ‘did’ nothing else mattered much at all)

    So I go through them Leeds (textiles) Newcastle (coal), Glasgow (ship building), Liverpool (docks and shipping) Sheffield (steel) Birmingham (coal and steel) Stoke (potteries, dishes) on and on London (everything) and maybe as our only sop to ‘play’ Manchester (soccer) Soccer was our only ‘play’ and guess what another thing dominated by the English. We had our own football but by then in my mind that was becoming ‘worthless’) There was even a city in Northern Ireland Belfast (ship building) but N. Ireland is part of England so ‘industry’ and ‘worth’ there.

    Then I look at the Irish cities (not cities mere towns we had no cities Dublin excepted) and here we go Cork (next to nothing a bit of fishing maybe ?) Galway )really nothing a bit of fishing maybe) that’s about it we had Dublin but that was the capital and most everything ‘fine’ there would just have been some left over by the English. Trinity College the Four Courts buildings stuff like that all just stuff they left us left behind when they left

    And I though (now) how low a ‘self esteem’ I had ANYTHING ‘near’ me was worthless, only stuff far away had ‘value’ and it was the stuff of the very people who took everything from us. I thought of myself ANYTHING AT ALL ‘near’ me was of no value whatsoever, so my bed, my pillow, my Mom maybe especially her had no value. I sensed she was the one who brought me into the world so she ESPECIALLY had no ‘value’. Can you imagine the kind of chaos that set me up for. Anyone who was ‘good’ to me or ‘close’ to me had to have no value. That’s a big effin problem.

    And I thought they (the English in this instance) TOOK everything away from us the took it all and left us with nothing we didn’t even have ourselves when all was said and done. Our ‘closest’ possessions were by definition worthless

    (I am aware there are feelings ‘below’ this deeper ones you might say, earlier ones you might say but I felt it worth it for some reason to write this out…………’worth it’ in that I am ‘worth’ if for a big change…………….and I am not making any kind of case for “Irish nationalism” too late for all that……………..

  206. Patrick says:

    This business about anything ‘close’ to me being worthless…………………has I have to admit ‘infected’ primal therapy too……………how could anything that grabbed me like nothing before (or since?) be worth much. I notice when I tell people about it it’s like I am vaguely ’embarrassed’ to have spent so much time, money and above all psychic energy on something so ‘worthless’. And yet when I read the ‘latest’ la di da ‘science’ in like Scientific American or something that seems often kind of worthless too but in a different way. PT I KNOW so I “know’ that is worthless………….

    • jackwaddington says:

      Worthiness or worthlessness is in the “eye of the beholder”. It’s a value judgement … whatever way one wishes to look at it.

      I personally would not wish to designate anything to either. I would rather stay with “That I like”. “That I do not like”. The rest I am indifferent towards. By that means, I don’t get my ‘knickers in a truss’ about evaluating this or that, other than liking, or NOT liking something. It also allows me at any time, to change my mind about my likes and dislikes. For me … that simple.

      Jack

  207. Patrick says:

    A thought occurs to me………….do I feel/think PT is ‘worthless’ a) because as I said above anything ‘close’ to me almost HAS to be or b) it ‘IS’ pretty much ‘worthless’ and I am then drawn to that as a ‘confirmation’ of my feeling. The answer is I would say BOTH.really and just speaking fro myself there is no need Jack to ‘demonstrate’ your ‘better way of being’ or ‘your better way of feeling’ and ‘your better way of thinking’

    (It would probably annoy me if someone else wrote with so many capitals and quotes – so if you are all annoyed – I understand) also so many brackets)).

    Anyway California is running out of water sorry to be so ‘degenerate’ I should really be up trying to do something about that but what can I do actually? I do what I can don’t flush if I pee and rarely shower. I can and do ‘shower’ in the ocean and a nice river/stream I have found.

    The world is not only about PT of course it’s not and I have been as ‘guilty’ as anyone of making it so central. It was central to me because of some profound disturbances in childhood that is the real reason it is/was so central.

    I just heard on KPFK Obama and I think the Republicans too are pushing this TPP free trade on steroids……………just a pure horror show. That passes and it’s ‘game over’ for democracy, the climate, your job, your health, just about anything I can think of. And it probably will pass when Obama and Republicans actually agree on something that seems to be a VERY bad sigh, it seems humanity is on a real suicide mission bad times ahead I am afraid. It would be somewhat comforting to be able to blame it all on Zionism and that is a factor but it seems to go deeper. It seems it really is too late to ‘save’ anything…………………bring on the 6th Great Extinction Event……………….

    (I mention the Zionism because of Netanyahu’s election…………….here is a guy who wants another massive war in the Middle East if that is not a definition of a ‘devil’ a true monster and ‘serial mass murderer I don’t know what is. I wonder why Art Janov don’t write a blog ‘exploring’ that mind set. What causes that? He takes on the ‘easy’ topics as he had done for a long time now………………..topics like what make the Arabs so full on ‘anger’ Duh!

    • jackwaddington says:

      I find your early statements in this last comment of yours somewhat muddling … to me, that is. I suppose if I were to reflect on many of the comments you have made about me I would find them equally muddling. Why they did not unduly bother me was because I was ‘of the opinion’ that they were as a result of some deeper feelings within you.

      Let me try and be brief. I was inspired to make my comment because I felt you were inter-dispersing the feeling of “worthless” with a state of “worthless”ness. What I was inspired to comment upon was how I feel on these matters for and about me.

      I reckon that, that is what this blog is all about … or for that matter what all blogging is about. For me, the facts are not that relevant … the feelings are way more so.

      If my feelings bother you … that’s your problem. I have others.

      Jack

  208. Patrick says:

    Let me ‘take on’ Janov rather than Jack, Jack spits back Janov doesn’t he is ‘above it all’ and has a ‘censored’ blog. Does it make me a ‘bully’ to take on someone not here/there, probably but nobody cannot say I didn’t ‘try’ with Jack take him on that is. But he is a resilient and truly a tough nut to crack (impossible) Give his props for that I suppose though in ‘primal world’ I don’t think that is actually a good quality……………..

    Anyway stupid preamble Art Janov wrote a blog a few weeks ago about Brian Williams the NBC reported who was suspended for well ‘lying’ not to mince words too much. Here is what Janov wrote about him

    Start of quote “”Here is a man, the leading news reader in America, watched by over nine million viewers every night and it just wasn’t enough. Why not? Aah, therein lies the sad tale of a man gone wrong through a need un-felt.

    He was famous and could not feel it. He needed more, so he fabricated heroics—his life was in danger, he was shot down and so on ad nauseam. He wanted to be something other than a news reader (which is what they are called in England, and not journalists). Since he could not be a field journalist reporting from dangerous war zones, he did the next best thing; he invented his life. Although he already had, approbation, worship, and admiration it was never enough. He wanted admiration for what he was not, and had not done; someone who lived a more dangerous and more glorious life. He wanted to be more famous and more glorious than just reading the news. He needed to be famous for putting his life in danger. By the way, he did that in his football career. It was dangerous, and he was proud on air to say that his injury during the game was something rarely seen.

    He needed—admiration, love, importance; something he must have lacked in his early home life. Those needs never go away. And whatever anyone’s reality those deprived needs dominate, always. Why? Because at the time those needs were at their apex, it was a matter of survival to have them fulfilled. Nice to have them filled when we are ten or twelve but will not change the brain and its biology as it does when we live in the womb.” End of quote

    Like I asked before is Janov trying to tell us something here, is he talking about himself? Just plug in a few words and he COULD be talking about himself. change ‘news reader’ to ‘psychologist’ change ‘journalist’ to ‘author’ change ‘football career’ to ‘thinker’ etc etc. To me Janov is an ‘exaggerator’ and a ‘fabulist’ at the very least, would I use the “L” word well some people might think that harsh but in the spirit of calling a spade a spade yes I would use the “L” word to describe Janov. So all the stuff he ‘accuses’ others of he is ‘guilty’ of himself. He has criticized Dr Drew for having too many suicides (imagine with his own record on that score) I mean that takes ‘balls’ and not in a good way. Balls as in hypocrisy taken to a very high plane indeed………….

  209. Patrick says:

    I wish Janov would try to ‘analyse’ this story below instead of taking the easy way out and beating up on Arabs some more. Blaming the victim………………something I have seen in ‘primal’ quite a bit. I remember Vicki’s notion that one of the suicides did not really ‘count’ because well the guy was taking drugs………………..I though ‘primal’ could ‘fix’ that but apparently there are exceptions to every rule and through that loophole ‘hypocrisy’ runs easily……………….

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/03/19/israelis-vote-to-abandon-all-pretense-of-seeking-peace/……………..

  210. Margaret says:

    Patrick,
    I don’t really get the logic of your reasoning about the worthlessness, though it is clear you approach some stuff there that is important for you.
    so do you mean your mother, Ireland and Primal are really worthless or do you say they are not and it is just the old feeling taking over?
    or …?
    M

    • Patrick says:

      Pretty much all an ‘old feeling’ Margaret. And of course along with a feeling or ‘worthlessness’ goes a fair amount of posturing not be feel that or be seen that way……………

  211. Margaret says:

    Patrick,
    that last sentence is not entirely clear to me, does it mean a fair amount of energy goes into defending from feeling that worthless and trying to hide it?
    it is a major step if you can really break through that cycle.
    saying it out here,if that is what you do is an important step.
    M

    • Patrick says:

      Yes Margaret you took the correct meaning. I am amazed sometimes by all these stupid ‘typos’ I do

      I have a question for you. Do you mind saying if you vaccinate your cat or not? I would be interested in the answer

  212. Patrick says:

    I saw what to me was an interesting movie today it’s this new documentary about Dianetics/Scientology. People here know of my interests in ‘cults’ and NO I am not going to try to tar ‘primal’ with that brush at least not now. I do see some similarities in the two but I found I would today watching the movie see some similarity but then the next thing would be so clear Scientology is just ‘bat-shit crazy’. Like really really nutty.Any ‘craziness’ in primal is so meager by comparison. Mind you Scientology did everything is a very BIG way and as a point of comparison it is now valued at around 3 billion dollars and primal is it seems to me at least sort of dissapearing. So that’s another huge difference

    I would recommend it it is done by this guy Alex Gibney who makes really excellent documentaries. He has done one on Lance Armstrong, another on Julian Assange and one on Eliot Spitzer all of which I have seen and they are all very good. This is a short trailer

  213. Margaret says:

    Patrick,
    yes, sure, I got my cat vaccinated. if some of the vaccinations can cause allergy it is certainly worth examining, I’ll ask about that.

    and yes, scientology is so crazy it is hard to imagine all these (including famous) people openly swearing by it.
    I liked the fact someone sabotaged them somehow by putting their last final ‘holy secret’ on line, a secret too crazy for words..

    M

    • Patrick says:

      OK Margaret and I don’t mean to pry but you say ‘some’ of the vaccinations, that implies there are more than one. And do you do it every year? Like again I am just doing a bit of ‘research’ here and I am curious how many do you do every year and against what ‘diseases’ and if then you do ‘booster shots’ every year or it is considered lifetime immunity if you do it just once

      I am not picking on you in any way, I have been talking to my brother in Ireland about how often and for what he does with his sheep etc. and well it’s just something I am trying to find out more about. I know being very devoted to your cat would be able to give me reliable answers.

      Vaccination is something I am reading a few books about right now and I am trying to get some real world information. I would appreciate any information you can give me and it is just for my ‘research’ and will not be used in any kind of statistical analysis smiley……………or be passed on to the ‘security services’ another smiley………..

  214. Margaret says:

    as I leave it mainly to the vet to decide which ones are important, taking in account my cat does not get in touch with other cats, at least not in a direct way, I can’t name them all, except for cat’s disease, sneezing disease, and occasional de-worming after she has caught mice during the past year, but that’s no vaccination.

    i hope you won’t discard the use of vaccins in general, would you?
    i am sure controversial stuff can be found about that topic but hey, lots of proof of the usefullness as well, in my opinion.

    looking for another crusade, smiley?
    not said in a mean way, honestly.
    M

    • Patrick says:

      Margaret you read me well (I guess by now it’s not that difficult) but really yes……………I have just read these two amazing books one called “Fear of the Invisible” and “The Vaccine Papers” both by an English lady called Janine Roberts

      I probably should not say anymore or it will sound like a ‘crusade’ but anyone who is interested can get them. I would say this anyone who has young children definitely should read and be in position to avert some damage rather than cry after spilt milk

      My brother had decided to stop all vaccines on his sheep so someone ‘listens’ to me. But that is not the important thing sometimes (very rarely) I read a book that literally changes my understanding of a lot of things and these books are one of them. Truly insightful and I would imagine it will take the Medical Profession about 100 years to catch up………….especially given all the money that is being made now on vaccines a truly world wide operation on people AND animals

      Not to revisit about how to treat animals when I was growing up on the farm NO vaccines for ANYTHING, for cows or dogs or cats…………….nothing. Now and I was told this by two farmers when I was over there they would not drink the milk from their own cows and I asked the reason………….oh so many vaccines and drugs of all kinds. Such an absurd situation it’s like the farmers ‘know’ on an instinctive level it is not safe but their ‘brain’ tells them they should do it and why………….because ‘experts’ who ‘know’ TOLD them to

      This ties into ‘Irish culture’ too we were so de-meaned and lacked in our own native confidence that we just take all this advice against all common sense and our own evidence from so called ‘experts’. Just the English in modern form and of course we have ‘internalized’ all their fancy ‘science’ and forget we were able to do stuff for hundreds or maybe thousands of years with no ‘health problems’ for the animals but now we need vaccines……………….and we and the animals have even more health problems.

      This does not get into the ‘deep science’ in the book but I will spare people that and it probably would sound like a crusade plus it probably would ‘provoke’ Jack from his slumbers.lol…………….though rust never sleeps……………….

      • jackwaddington says:

        So!!!! are you getting a bit ‘rusty’ yourself … and discovering it affects YOUR sleep? …since you seem to of the mindset that left alone (specially those [and us] animals) we would all live life as it was meant to be.

        It’s not that I don’t have my own crusade, as well you may be aware, but I never got my “crusade” across to you … maybe because you came from the wrong side of Ireland (as opposed to the ‘right’ hand side facing north 🙂 ).

        My crusade was always that we would not need all this science … in particular medical science … if we were allowed an “instinctive” development from the moment of conception. Failing all that we are symbolically closing the barn door after the ‘gee gee has run off’. However I do agree that it will take at least another 100 years, if we homo sapiens survives that long, before the notion of FEELINGS (or said another way) “instinct” was to take over … but then the guy that came up with all this, according to your going “rusty” thinking, got it all wrong.

        Maybe one from Ireland didn’t get the whole picture. Merely read the book … hoped he’d get it done for him … then when it didn’t happen, claimed it was all a mistake 😦 .

        Jack

        • Patrick says:

          You are so wrong and so many levels but invoking the Spirit of Fiona I will ignore you today…………….one day at a time…………….you WANT a reaction masochist style and I will be a sadist for today and say no…………empty tin cans rattle loudly………….

  215. Patrick says:

    I think I am quite mis-undertood (esp. of course by Jack – quite ‘deliberate’ in his case for some reason only he could answer that if he was to sincerely examine himself I am not holding my breath) I never said ‘primal therapy’ was all a mistake. I have mostly being trying to point out just because an idea may be ‘valid’ in most respects does NOT mean that the ‘implementation’ of it is not to be questioned.

    I read something recently that kind of alluded to that………….they were talking about ‘mind-fullness’ and saying this is a state all children have naturally, they are attentive, curious, ‘in the moment’ etc……………..but the adult PRACTICE of mind-fullness is something else. That is the world of seminars, DVD’s, books, retreats etc. One is not the same as the other and the ‘practice’ can be ‘off’ and go ‘off’ in many different ways. After all we are trying to regain a state we have lost

    It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see how this can be applied to ‘primal’ We are all born ‘primal’ it is something we have as our deepest nature but we have LOST it along the way and we are trying to get it back or go back to it. It is hardly surprising there are and will be many false starts and directions and that is mostly what I have been trying to say.

    Jack may try to paint me a ‘stupid’ all he likes I read but didn’t understand the primal scream unlike him of course who ‘got it’ and has been reminding anyone within earshot ever since how he had a ‘religious experience’ when he read the primal scream twice in 20 hour sittings. Classic religious experience and he has remained religious to this day. And like a lot of religions he seemingly hasn’t done much since except proselytize and use it as an identity about how ‘special’ he is. He ‘gets it’ most people don’t even people like me who only ‘thought’ he ‘got it’ Just some ‘speed reader’

    To come back to the topic I don’t see why ‘questioning’ or ‘criticism’ of primal therapy is not healthy and normal……………….after all I think they would have to admit they have had some drastic failures to try to ‘spin’ it all as being hunky dory only a real religious ‘fanatic’ would try to do that……………………but that seems to Jack’s ‘position’

  216. Patrick says:

    Margaret said: (my comments in brackets)

    ” taking in account my cat does not get in touch with other cats, ( I would have thought Margaret that is one of the pleasures of BEING a cat or a human come to think of it – nothing pathological about that) at least not in a direct way, (direct is usually better no?) I can’t name them all, except for cat’s disease, (????)sneezing disease (?????) and occasional de-worming after she has caught mice (I would have thought catching mice is again one of the great pleasures of being a cat) during the past year

    Do you see where I am kind of going with this………………all the essence of being a cat is ‘pathologized’ and had to have vaccines ‘against’ it.

    It might even be related my guess it is to all the illness your cat seems to suffer from. Maybe quit the vaccines and one day she might even lose the ‘cat suit’ Could all the scratching of her neck etc be a function of some kind of medical intervention there…………..my guess is it is…………..

  217. sylvia says:

    Margaret hi, just wanted to say that I never had my blue-eyed tom vaccinated. Because he had fair colored fur I just assumed he was more sensitive to skin allergies. I didn’t like getting him cortisone shots but it seemed to be the only treatment to work–pills didn’t work for long. Hope kitty is feeling better and her new diet is working.

  218. Patrick says:

    Margaret – here is a rather long video/talk about vaccines but more specifically connected to autism and general child welfare. . I will send you the link now on the side also as you seem to have trouble with the links here. You might even find this interesting in relation to your statistics studies

    For everyone else: I think this is a very good and worth watching video

    • jackwaddington says:

      The vaccine argument is an attempt to see a connection between a vaccination and the (possible) resulting autism. I would like to postulate that the actual proclivity for “autism” is rooted in a deeper mechanism in the brain That a vaccination might (ONLY MIGHT) precipitate this condition, if the first condition was ‘set up’ in utero. If it were that vaccinations were the only cause of autism there might be some “statistical logic” to that claim. However, there is a chance (which does not seem to have been investigated; as far as I know), that “autism” can occur to those that have NOT been vaccinated.

      If the later is true: it would seem this is a case of claiming the potential of a neurological condition caused by only ONE factor, rather than it being a factor from an incident in utero and then brought forward later, as a result of vaccinations (immunizations et al). I would postulate that there needs to be more study for what precipitates AUTISM in the first place.

      I contend (just my contention only), that if Primal Theory; (NOT from Patrick’ s thinking:- the implementation of Primal Therapy); were to be studied by the medical profession and the Neuro-Physicians in particular, that we might see this problem to be a little more complex that just the ‘pharma’ and MD’s trying to solve it all through one FACTOR.

      Of course, this is merely a POSTULATION on my part.

      Jack

  219. Patrick says:

    Jack – I don’t think the video was saying it was ONLY vaccines they mentioned pesticides and just general pollution and I am sure there are other factors including the mother’s stress (primal pain if you like) Here is something from the vaccine book

    “California state officials reported of 29 women who lived within 500 meters of fields sprayed with organo-chlorines during their first trimester of pregnancy that 28% (Yes that much – my comment) gave birth to children now suffering from autism. They found this proportion to be 6 times greater than women who lived further from these fields”

    • jackwaddington says:

      I re quote:-“California state officials reported of 29 women who lived within 500 meters of fields sprayed with organo-chlorines during their first trimester of pregnancy that 28% (Yes that much – my comment) gave birth to children now suffering from autism”. Question!!! ‘What happened to the other 72%????????? (presumably 21 of the original 29) women, living under the same conditions? This is where the ‘MYTH’ regarding “statistics” falls apart. I appears to ‘spell-out’ something … BUT a careful look at what it actually means is somewhat dubious.

      Tell me:- WHY didn’t the other 21 of pregnant women (72%) produce kids that were autistic??????? It is my feeling that 21 is a far greater number than 8.

      The problem, as I see it, is the nature of what Thouless wrote, way back in 1932.

      The neurotic world abounds in his (Thouless’ notion) of crooked thinking … even among the so called brightest …brought about by careless analysys IMO.

      But what the fuck would my opinion have to do with anything?????

      Jack

      • Patrick says:

        I agree that a lot of this ‘statistical’ truths are lame……………but I don’t know I think it very possible that the other 21 were not in optimal shape either. “Autism” itself is on a kind of continuum even the ones called ‘autistic’ is probably a bit artificial. Maybe some of the others were more on the so called Asberger’s (light autism) continuum. But whatever IF I had any choice in the matter I would prefer to be born far away from those kinds of fields.

        And I am grateful that I was………….sometimes I think as children a lot of us were brought up in harsh situations in one way or another but at least in 1950’s Ireland pollution and even vaccines were not an issue. Kids nowadays have different challenges, parents in general are more ‘enlightened’ about holding and touching kids stuff like that but the environment itself is scary. And so many kids today even the few I know of have many problems and unfortunately the kinds of problems ‘primal’ may be a bit powerless about…………..

        • Phil says:

          Patrick and Jack, Statistics is real important so both of you probably have “crooked thinking” in this case. I think there are almost no certainties in life sciences or social sciences, where A plus B always equals C as in physics, math or chemistry. There is no vaccine which is 100% effective, no surgery or other treatment which works all the time. I think that would be a very high rate of autism in the report from California associating it with pesticides. But that still doesn’t constitute proof since other possible causes have to be eliminated. What I understand is that several studies have been done which seem to effectively discredit the theory that vaccines cause autism. I think that idea was basically some parents jumping to a conclusion when their kids were vaccinated and subsequently found to be autistic. A very low percentage of people are known to be badly effected by vaccines. Maybe vaccines are a very low level cause of autism for certain kids who are traumatized by being vaccinated. As a parent I went ahead and had my kids vaccinated as I thought that was the best thing to do. California seems to be the center of the measles vaccine controversy. My opinion is that those parents who refuse to vaccinate their children are misinformed and negligent. If you watch TV you’ll hear about all the very bad possible outcomes in commercials for drugs. But those medicines are approved because statistically their benefits are worthwhile and outweigh the side effects. But statistically beneficial doesn’t mean they are helpful for every individual. Sorry for the lecture. I guess I wanted to correct the crooked thinking. Phil

          Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 01:43:57 +0000 To: phiban@msn.com