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Primal Institute 
Another test…
OK I fucking give up!!!!!! I haven’t said everything I wanted to say and it has taken me longer to try and post my comment than it took to write it. I tried copying and pasting it in from a Word document and my posts are not showing up. I will try again later…
Oh joy it actually made it…!
David: Wow what a great posting and an encouraging post about how all this therapy works. The thought of your dad doing that to you, and others that have also expressed similar encounters, drives me wild with rage, anger and frustration.
I sure suffered ‘sex addiction, BUT, never to the extent of wanting sex with anyone under the age of 18 and certainly not against anyone’s will. The problem is the unutterable trauma that must have been inflicted on your dad, and others that then act it out in such a manner on children..
Where to start to rectify any of this … boggles my mind. I am not sure I have any answers or that anyone out there has any either … to prevent it, that is.
Meantime, I admire you for posting this, what must be a very painful revalation to what took place with you at such a tender age.
Jack
Jack,
Thanks for your comments! Yes, I’ve said before that without this process, which I had a breakthrough in around 8 years ago, I would probably be dead or in jail. I don’t know about abuse inflicted on my father. I couldn’t stand my grandfather (his father) who seemed to hate children. Growing up I found it much easier to see him as he was than I could with my own father.
Yes, it’s a extremely painful thing to have uncovered. A friend of mine remarked that I must have a very strong life force to survive through that and other traumas in my childhood, and another person said they saw that in me too. I remember going to a talk Janov gave at his Center where he said: “Well, of course therapy is going to much harder if you had one of the 4 major traumas than if you just had the regular mind fuck” And he listed those as birth, incest, adoption and boarding school. I’ve felt despairing at times reflecting on this as I didn’t just have one of the “major traumas” but all four! I guess I must have a strong life force or something going for me.
Did you find out what was driving your sex addiction?
David: Not a full blown revelation, just to know that it was a great pain killer and had been from my early teens right up to my mid seventies when my whole sex drive just evaporated. Seemingly mysteriously … yet knew, actually just expressing my feelings, bit by bit as they arose helped me on many levels.
I am aware that I needed my daddy even though I did have a mommy and a granny … but as a child I needed that daddy and perhaps the whole of my homosexuality and sex addiction revolves around all the needs a child requires for both … else damage sets in.
I see Primal therapy as an ongoing process. There is no end game … other than death and that I am not quite ready for it yet!!!!. I’ll let the blog know if and when I do know that my demise is imminent … and best I can express what it feels like. Not that mine would be like all others, but to give others a sense of it.
Jack
Thank you Gretch 🙂
David,
That’s good news about finding specific abnormalities with CFS. I hope they are on to something with that and can better define what exactly goes wrong in the condition. Maybe it will lead to some treatments, but the best ones might turn out to be those focused on the whole person, and not mitochondria.
Phil
Phil,
I agree that a more holistic approach is needed, taking in nutrition, exercise, therapy. Having said that there was a treatment that seemed to help me some years ago that somehow targeted the mitochodria. I remember the Dr I saw discussing the theory of it with me, and it was using low doses of the drug Naltraxone, which in higher doses is used in drug addiction treatment. Unfortunately this Dr’s clinic closed down, but the Health Rising article has inspired me to track down an alternate source online, and hopefully that can help me again.
testing
continued from page 2 I hope.
When I saw this in the article it felt completely wrong to talk about hibernation. Hibernation is something natural and instinctive, and there is nothing natural and instinctive about CFS. And in any case, human beings don’t hibernate. What I’m convinced the scientists in this study are seeing is not hibernation but the effects of shock. As a result of the abuse, neglect and abandonment in my childhood I have been in a frozen state of shock since that time, though slowly healing through therapy. What I saw as character flaws of laziness and inertia were really the effects of shock. In another 2009 study 62% of CFS patients reported being the survivors of childhood traumas. (At this point I had a link to the study, but I’ve left it out in case it was somehow causing the posting problems). I bet a significant percent of the remaining 38% will be equally damaged but with no memory of their trauma. All this research is validating, though it’s also part of me trying to make sense of what has happened to my life. Maybe my father raping me is just an insanity that can’t be made sense of or understood.
My energy levels have been slowly improving and in the last couple of months I shot a wedding and took on three of my old guitar students, all of which has felt good. Next weekend is the closest thing to a retreat I can get to. It’s a three day creative, community camp which will have a sauna, possibly a family constellations workshop, drumming workshops and 5Rhythms classes. I’ve been to it before and there will be quite a few familiar faces and a lot of very nice people generally. I think I should go even it it means spending half my time lying in my tent. I’ve been been too isolated. I hope I can make it.
Phil
That’s great how they’ve been able to link CFS to childhood trauma. It’s been a baffling condition; I have a cousin who has struggled with it as well. Those seem to be pretty clear cut results. Maybe there’s no need to consider other causes, at least in your case, in light of what you’ve uncovered.
Phil
I believe in my case the main factor is childhood trauma. Feeling feelings about the abuse from father has lessened the fatigue noticeably. But… like with depression and anxiety, it keeps coming back. There may have been some other complicating factors that screwed up my immune system. I took a large amount of anti-biotics about a year before I first got sick and was also addicted for 6 months to the anti-anxiety drug ativan which did produce CFS like symptoms. But that was years and years ago. The results of Adrenal Stress Profiling I had done earlier in the year have shown that stress (pain and fear), indictated by high levels of cortisol, are a significant factor in my health issues.
David,
I saw the article on the CFS link with childhood trauma. I see that it’s a little old, from 2009 and there may have been more work since then. It would or should be big news if there was more awareness that there is effective treatment for childhood traumas.
It’s no wonder you have that condition. You are off the charts having all 4 experiences that Janov refers to, but you have done very well, looking at it that way.
Phil
Thanks Phil, yes, I think relatively speaking I’m doing well.
In reading health articles I’ve recently noticed the cause of auto-immune disorders and cancer being attributed to failing mitochondria. I wonder though whether failing mitochondria are a symptom, not a cause. I’ve been doing many things to try to overcome the auto-immune disorder that I was diagnosed with a little over a year ago. Since Spring I’ve dramatically improved and have been well on a road to recovery. I attribute my sudden improvement to the additional anti-inflammatory I was prescribed at the time, but recovery could also be due a Naturopath recommended supplement to kill off low grade hidden infection I started taking at the time, or to creatine I started taking to feed ATP (energy carrying) molecules to my mitochondria to reverse my muscle decline, or to switching to a Naturopath recommended Paleo Autoimmune Diet, or to feeling out deeper, broader more all-of-my-life encompassing pains about having no one and being alone.
I don’t write about it here all the time, but I continue to several times weekly succumb to ever deeper crying about being alone now and through childhood. Just thinking about writing it here yesterday was enough to release and cry the feeling, which ultimately released me. The upside of crying out and resolving the pains of loss and aloneness is that I’m not so desperately afraid to be alone and am more comfortable alone or with people. Last weekend was a long weekend here, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday, during which I was with people or a friend each day and enjoyed it.
Patrick recently criticized Primal Therapy for being too individualistic when what the world needs is more community. My reply is that of course primal therapy focuses on the individual, since it is the individual who is seeking healing, but the therapists prompt the individual to heal through socializing and being part of community, which Patrick has said when he was urged to at the start of his therapy he resisted and resists. On a final note, as I progress through therapy I’m more and more able to participate in community and society.
Larry,
It’s great to hear you’re going deeper with crying and also on the road to recovery with the autoimmune condition. You have written much lately, I’m glad you’re back.
Phil
Larry, thanks for your comment and it’s great to hear that your health has improved so much.
Larry – I guess what I am trying to say is “blood is thicker than water” or at least it used to be. Though we may be going into a time where even that is not true…………..scary…….
Well Patrick, we have no choice about the family we are born to, but we choose our friends. Friends might know you better than family. Friends might stand by you in ways that family might not. Honestly Patrick, and seriously, I think that most of the time you don’t know what you are saying nor why.
I tried posting the link to the CFS/ childhood trauma study separately and it wouldn’t post, so that was the problem. To find it Google “CFS Linked to Childhood Trauma” and it’s at the top of the page.
A loving, merciful God would have provided us with a “Reset” button.
John Z: Yeah! if one existed … but I think from the evidence we already have him/her/it, is a figment of a neurotic imagination.
Jack
John,
A reset button would be nice! One of the best helps for me in therapy has been Neale Donald Walsch’s series of books “Conversations with God” where the author claims to have had a dialogue with God over the course of 8 books. Because of my strict Catholic upbringing, I’d seen these books in bookstores and ignored them because of the “G” word. Cut a long story short, I did get round to reading them and they’ve helped me to feel more than any other resource outside of formal therapy. I felt I resonated so strongly with the material it was like hearing back something I already knew deep inside, like someone reciting back to me something inscribed in my DNA. It got to the point where if I was depressed, I could open “Friendship with God” randomly at any page, read a few lines and it would help me to cry deeply. So, in the first book, Walsch asks “God”, if suffering is so offensive to you why don’t you just get rid of it? And he/she/it’s reply is: “I have already gotten rid of it. But you have chosen not to use the tools I’ve given you.” I suspect he was talking about our ability to cry.
David,
Thank you for your comprehensive reply.
What prompted my recent remark, is the sometime feeling “starting over would be such a relief”. Over the decades since beginning Primal Therapy back in the early 1990’s, have used the crying tool and have periodically, incorrectly (hopelessly) thought I had cried out the pain after what seemed like endless hours/days. The relief could be long lasting, but then the pain is again triggered by an event/thought. When this happens, the crying begins again (not for days anymore, thankfully) but can’t help but wonder after all these years, “is there no end to this?”
So, the yearning for a “reset” button.
Meanwhile, found additional help in SUPER BRAIN, authored by Deepak Chopra, M.D. and Rudolph E.Tanzi, Ph.D. Will take a look at your recommendation.
John Z: Sorry if I’m intruding; but to answer your question as I see it:- ” can’t help but wonder after all these years, “is there no end to this?”” No there is no end to it; once we delve into expressing to feelings of yore It goes on for the rest of our lives, as I see it.
It become less of a problem … but never goes away and as of the way I feel now, I would not want it to.
Jsack
Jack,
No, you are not intruding, always good to hear from you. Agree with you. At our age, should know how this phase ends ere long. If there is an end, that is.
Wow, amazing how writing can work out our inmost issues, isn’t it? Interesting, thanks…
My high school class reunion is taking place this weekend. I’m not going, I never really seriously entertained going. I’ve never gone to any and maybe have only ever seen 2 or 3 classmates ever in all the years since graduation. It does bring up some feelings though. I look at the list of people going and don’t remember 99% of them. It should be different, is what the feeling is. I should remember many of those people and should want to go to that event.
But I never liked high school and had a bad experience with it. “High School Musical” has no appeal for me. It would have to be a satire of some kind to hold any attraction for me.
I’m having an OK weekend and don’t need to go to that event, but the feeling is about missing out. I missed out on a lot back then.
Phil
Ah, I get it why you don’t want to go, but I wish you went for your sake.
Larry, Well I just couldn’t imagine that as a good experience because although I was a graduate, I couldn’t go to a reunion not remembering anyone. And that’s because I never knew them to begin with, not because I’ve forgotten. I just wasn’t there in many ways.
Phil
Yep, I feel the same way about a Teacher’s College reunion that is coming up. Just not my sort of people, is how I felt/feel, or is that a copout?
To Donal and anyone else who is dismayed that kids’ time these days is too structured, Alison Gopnick, a professor of psychology and a parent, agrees in her recent book “The Gardener and the Carpenter: What the New Science of Child Development Tells Us About the Relationship Between Parents and Children”.
Reviews about the book:
“Caring deeply about our children is part of what makes us human. Yet the thing we call “parenting” is a surprisingly new invention. In the past thirty years, the concept of parenting and the multibillion dollar industry surrounding it have transformed child care into obsessive, controlling, and goal-oriented labor intended to create a particular kind of child and therefore a particular kind of adult. In The Gardener and the Carpenter, the pioneering developmental psychologist and philosopher Alison Gopnik argues that the familiar twenty-first-century picture of parents and children is profoundly wrong–it’s not just based on bad science, it’s bad for kids and parents, too.
Drawing on the study of human evolution and her own cutting-edge scientific research into how children learn, Gopnik shows that although caring for children is profoundly important, it is not a matter of shaping them to turn out a particular way. Children are designed to be messy and unpredictable, playful and imaginative, and to be very different both from their parents and from each other. The variability and flexibility of childhood lets them innovate, create, and survive in an unpredictable world. “Parenting” won’t make children learn―but caring parents let children learn by creating a secure, loving environment.”
and:
“What a relief to find a book that takes a stand against the practice of helicopter parenting so prevalent today . . . [The Gardener and the Carpenter] not only dispels the myth of a single best model for good parenting but also backs up its proposals with real-life examples and research studies . . . This book will provide helpful inspiration for parents and may prompt some to rethink their strategies. “Publishers Weekly”.
and:
“[“The Gardener and the Carpenter”] calls into question the modern notion that good parents can mold their children into successful adults . . . Gopnik writes with an approachable style and straightforward language . . . One of the most profound observations comes when Gopnik struggles, as many parents and grandparents do, with children using smartphones and other screen-based technologies . . . Children are not supposed to become like their parents; they learn from them to create something new. Each generation is different from the ones before. And that, Gopnik suggests, is the whole point of being human.” Courtney Humphries, “The Boston Globe”
from here to eternity. nice and sad. reminds me a little of the camaraderie i had in the navy with my fellow sailor buddies.unfortunately i was a drunk and druggie, which destroyed any chance of happiness and which followed me after i was discharged, and which destroyed any happiness in my marriage. cried today about those years and the misery of those years, which multiplied horribly when my wife’s dad died. i would say my treatment of her was horrendous and anything she has done to me pales in comparison. whatever. cant turn back time, cant move forward too much. too many years of adult pain compounded with child pain. damn.
When were you in the Navy, Otto? Janov claims his navl experience in WW2 was a great thing for him personally.
BTW so as not be coy or anything the book to find out all about what this guy Andrew Johnson is talking about is “Where did the Towers go?” by Dr Judy Wood. I do believe she has truly cracked WHAT happened on 9/11/2001 and from there is a chance to crack WHO did it and WHY? But before the ‘what’ is understood I think the other questions are premature. I can’t think of a better present to give someone or just yourself on this anniversary of the event. It is a truly enlightening book and Leslie or Daniel it has nothing at all to do with ‘mental illness’ quite the opposite imo
Quote:- “don’t ban me please please…………..”
So why do you write things that are more than likely to be deleted ?????????
Jack
Here is what i can say about high school. i asked one teacher why in the pearl buck china movie, why the wife (actress) was good-looking, while in the book it described her as plain. i dont remember the answer and there was not much discussion, i guess. i wondered why the books always seemed different from the movies. the teacher could have pointed me in the right direction, found me someone to talk to about my desire to make films, but she didn’t. no problem. i was always looking for an answer, or direction. i wandered the streets without any direction from adults. i attempted to make films for years and i just never got the right answers. another teacher, a humanities man, made wine sound so attractive. possibly leading me to drink wine alone in my garage bedroom. well what am i saying here? not much, just thoughts that occurred to me as i sit in the early evening, late summer, nice weather, backyard, trying to keep the cat from jumping the fence. we take him to vet tomorrow to get his monster dogbite stitches out.
donal, i think it was you who had the coffee peeve but i am not navigating back to page 2. my peeve is the guys and ladies who stand at the milk and sugar stand, slowly stirring their cream and sugar for minutes at a time, keeping me for an eternity when all i want to do is grab some coffee and some cuplets of cream and a lid and go. i must be missing some big thrill, but all i want to do is get my coffee and go to work and read yahoo tragedies and what not. also where i work, it is a chaotic hallway with patients gimping along slowly and certain persons who just stop and have conversations in the middle of the hall, standing in the way of me getting coffee. i love it. this kind of stuff makes life worth living. i get to mutter under my breath all the time and feel good doing it.
Are you addicted to coffee, do you think? I know I am.
Speaking of ‘lies lies lies’ (you don’t know love)there is some kind of big hit song on the radio a lot here…………..anyway it strangly fits at least in my mind…………….
Good question Jack…. Patrick it seems so compulsive. We all know your views. Why the need to keep repeating ? It seems like you can’t help yourself. What is that? G.
Gretchen – it seems we do not know what Jack said either that seems to be erased also. Gretchen this is really bullshit………..we know for example what Jack ‘thinks’ also abolish money and glorify Janov no matter what is that a reason to ‘eraze’ him no of course not. This is supposed to be a place a person can voice and for however LONG THEY NEED whatever they are thinking or feeling. So your ‘logic’ there does not work at all and actually reveals you typical bias and super conventional thinking.
One thing I would like to say about that 9/11 video I put on there people could actually learn so much from that certainly more than all the ‘stories’ in the NY Times or whatever I really DO ‘study’ these things . People here have all their own unique talents and interests and this is something I bring you might say a ‘talent’ of mine (think talent night!) and you eraze it. That is super insult and super unfair. I don’t know what Jack said but since when is ‘compulsive’ a reason to deny anyone? We are all ‘compulsive’ here including yourself for God’s sake stop relying on these bogus ;’psych’ type words
I have my problems of course we all do……………but I believe I DO bring some worthwhile things here and you just throw it all away. To repeat to be ‘compulsive’ loll that is such an insult maybe the ‘final’ insult you might say. Gretchen you should be ‘careful’ though in my opinion if you take it upon yourself to so casually throw someone away well I am now thinking what I can do. Let’s put it this way people in glass houses should not be throwing stones like you do and you DO live in a ‘glass house’
Another thing that occurs to me Grechen why the f… would you erase a simple statement that the 9/11 thing I posted was based on a book called “Where did the Towers go?” by Dr Judy Wood. What are you playing at!!??!!. So I am giving the information again there is NOTHING about Zionism in it either it is puerly a WHAT actually happend not ‘who’ did or ‘why’ though I have my suspicions
Are we not meant to think about any of this stuff, rely on the papers and we are here just to ‘do feelings’ How ridiculous is that and it is one of the reason primal has become so ‘useless’ it is off in some little ’boutique’ of it’s own mooching along and ‘trying’ to cry. What a way to live actually to not live. But my real issue is I think it is very wrong what you are doing plus this place would be a lot more interesing and even ‘feeling’ if you let people just have their say no matter how ‘uncomfortable’ it is for YOU. And maybe ask yourself WHY is it uncomfortable for you. As I said to you before if I found all millions of my people did not die by gassing I would be so happy I imagine I would cry with relief you don’t WHY? Why do you NEED this ‘belief’ a belief that just a cursory examination would show had huge credibility problems
> Hi John!
> nice to run into you here,
> Margaret
After many months I met up with my friend “G” who I talked about here. He’s the guy with very severe problems with anxiety and other things. I felt bad and hadn’t cut him off completely.
We have been maintaining a very low level of communications, just a few messages really.
It was a very bad meeting for me. He is desperate and I could feel him trying to dump his problems on me and to make me feel responsible. He has been in and out of mental hospitals at least 10 times, I think, in the past year.
He told me several times how he was tempted to go to a local dam and jump off to commit suicide. A place he has visited several times in the past with that intention.
On certain occasions, over the phone, or in person he has been much more reasonable and enjoyable company. But yesterday he was in terrible shape. I had set a limit to the amount of time I was willing to spend, and had mentioned that. I alerted him towards the end of our get together that I would soon have to be leaving. He was desperate for me not to go. I had to just get up and walk to my car, in what felt liked a rude and abrupt manner. I felt so manipulated and could feel the ropes of how he was trying to keep me there stuck with his problems.
This morning I was able to get to some feelings in relation to this. This guy is just so crazy I don’t want to deal him. The meeting left me with such a low down bad feeling. On my way home I had a blues CD playing in my car, a recent one I bought that I had happened to be listening to. The music really coincided with this very low down feeling.
In the session this morning I connected it to a scene with my mother, with how she was so crazy. Going to visit her, she wouldn’t even talk to me or notice me, just really crazy. How I felt trapped there in her presence. The feeling, just let me out of here, I can’t take it, I have to go. Also, the feeling that I can’t help. There’s nothing I can do. My father not even noticing or doing anything about my terrible turmoil over all of this. I don’t think I connected my relations with G to this scene previously, certainly not in this way.
A major scene that I have written about here before and comes up continually but a difference here is more awareness of my mother’s craziness. Maybe she doesn’t treat me that way out of intention, as usually occurs to me, but out of craziness. It’s not a big difference but I feel a little more clarity and did get some relief today. It’s maybe a harsher reality to realize how crazy she was. It;s a better understanding of what went on for me in that scene, because it was a big mix of feelings I experienced and have found it difficult to sort out. So, it feels like good progress.
It was good in relation to my meeting with G that I was able to stick to my timetable and not be stuck there. Three hours after I got home and was going to bed he sent me a message that he was still at the fast food restaurant where we had met. Today he messaged me and wants to do it again, which I have refused. I won’t be willing to do it again any time soon. He also mentioned something about neighbors calling the police to go to his apartment because of the things he had said, and the possibility of his going again to the mental hospital a short distance away. His point being that he is so desperate, can I help him. No I can’t, there’s nothing I can do. I want to leave it that I am around and have not completely abandoned or dumped him, but not more than that.
Phil
Phil: I just read this comment of yours about your freind G. I began to think:- What would I do under such circumstances. I know this is easier said than done, but (rightly or wrongly) in some of the buddy seesions I have had, I suggest to the buddy, “just cry about your current situation”. Not saying that it always works, or that the even do cry … least-ways not in my presence.
My best feelings about the book “Cure by Crying” is that it does take take away the possibilities of some of the anxieties that occur to us all. I feel the act of simply letting the tears just flow, is becoming a more acceptable thing for all of us to do from time to time instead of (especially we British with the notion of “stiff upper lip”)
Of course I realize in hindsight, because of your post Phil, that if anything like that is to happen to me in the future I might just try suggesting that, that someone insisting that I do not leave … “why don’t you just cry about the fact I am going to leave you soon”. Just a thought that came to me after reading your post Phil. Hope you do not mind me refelcting here on it.
Jack
Otto,
Yes, that was me, we are essentially complaining about the same thing: people dawdling and in the way when you just want to get your coffee and go. Here is what I said (the first part of the post was about kids having scheduled childhoods: Larry responded above my drawing my attention to a very interesting book on that subject, which I intend to read)
“Anyway, the current cohort of kids will need everything in their adult lives structured. I see that to some extent with milennials: less ability to be self sufficient, needing me outside person or group to structure their activities.
On that point, like you I also dislike what I would call the milennial craft-beer beard: seems that all guys in their mid twenties have them these days. Usually the ones who server craft beer or iced mochachinos. Speaking of which whatever happened to hot coffee……I now get stuck in line waiting for my coffee in the morning behind milennials ordering their fancy iced drinks which take about 10 minutes each to prepare. How about an express line for Gen-exers and Baby boomers who just want a cup of the house blend with cream. Cream in large cannisters too, not those little containers that you need to use 10 of to get creamy coffee.”
i watched most of the jungle book movie last night. a few scenes of monkeys swinging through the trees made me think. not sure what they made me think. maybe once our ancestor monkeys left the trees, they had to fine something to do with their strong hands and arms. then i saw some lady in line in the car lane at mcdonalds in front of my car. one of those probably non-caucasians, she was excitedly gesticulating her arms through her open window as she was discussing her order with the food techician. you know, is it itallian, spanish, latin that just do this, or mediterranean, or what. clues to the origins of man and language. do african blacks talk with their arms and hands.
a little before when my buddies, the village people, were.
i would give my left t to have the time to dawdle anymore. i can sit in the backyard and watch cat dog squirrels bugs, not sure if that is the same thing. hate it when z dawdles, she is a master of it, and i am pretty sure she enjoys life too. larry, did i give you enough information?
I am about to go food shopping at the local supermarket. A complaint I have is going there and people are in the way. They stand right in front of stuff I want studying it for, it seems, 15 or 20 minutes. I encounter this all over the store. Some people seem to want to make shopping their main activity for the day, whereas I like to be in and out of there as soon as possible. Also, I have no patience for coupons and people taking an hour at the cash register pulling them out to save 5 cents on toilet paper or something.
Phil
UUhhhhh….information about what, Otto.
Jack,
My friend G is unable to cry and I haven’t been able to help him with that.
About all I can do is to listen to him and make a few comments. The only use
with that is he feels slightly better being around someone he has some level
of comfort with. He lives alone and I think his days mostly revolve around setting
up that kind of slight relief. It is very sad. He is on and has been on various kinds
of medications which don’t help, and rejected for primal therapy, for the most part.
Phil
Phil: A very sad story about your friend G.
Jack
Patrick, i am glad you are listening to music. i am listening to music right now as i read this blog. i always appreciate reminders to get me to listen to music. thank golly humans did not lose the part of the brain that does music. thahks, thanks a lot. lordy mama.
Thanks, thanks a lot
I got a broken heart that’s all I got
You made me cry and I cried a lot
I lost your love baby thanks a lot
If you wanna get to heaven, gotta D-I-E
you gotta put on your coat and T-I-E
Wanna get the rabbit out of the L-O-G
You gotta make a cold motion like D-O-G
Like D-O-G, like D-O-G, yeah.
GREAT, I CAN FINALLY CRY AT HOME. or at least a few tears. my body wants to contract into itself and then explode. cant do that at home and it was not getting to that point yesterday in pi room. not much not enough. much much more to cry about z’s dad dying in 78 and the horrible sadness and craziness that went on for years. i want to push it down down down. more pain in adult hood than childhood. the plan is for z and monsterdog to move to ohio soon for 3 to 6 months. cant stand her, cant stand the way i have treated her and continue to treat her.
Phil – so good to read how you handled yourself and your meeting with G. It takes so much to set those boundaries – but like a drowning victim he is not able to see your suffering and can easily drown you to keep himself afloat.
( I actually had that happen 1 summer in a lake where a young, much weaker child panicked and grabbed onto me – when I was almost a lifeguard – and she climbed up and on me while I struggled desperately to re-surface & breathe. All happened in seconds and ended well – but at the time it was so intense!)
Your connections make such sense and will help enormously as you continue doing what you are.
How horrible & confusing it must have been to go see a mom – in an institution – who couldn’t do any mothering…
It is something knowing how much we need and love connections with others – but no matter what it is up to them to help/get help themselves. We can’t do it for them. I’m so often such a work in progress with that. And like you – want to be there having had so much time with no one there for me.
Yes, definitely more for me to feel there too 🙂
Also see how that shift about your mom’s craziness is so big – nothing you could do again – but actually feeling/integrating that is monumental.
ox L
Leslie,
You’re right, it is a significant shift for me, but I don’t want to necessarily repeat that experience to build on it.. I do like to be helpful but there has to be a limit with that.
That sounds like a scary incident you had as an almost lifeguard.
Thanks for your encouraging comments.:)
Phil
Yes Phil, I’m relieved that you recognize there is a limit to being helpful and you did not let yourself become smothered in his need.
Phil,
Yes, I also just want to get in and out when shopping: no patience for people blocking the aisles, Sometimes you seem to get like three generations of a family all grocery shopping together: blocking your way like one giant blob in the aisles.
Cannot understand shopping as a hobby: boring and aggravating.
I usually go a Tuesday night at 8:00PM or so: it its raining better still you have the whole store to yourself (best time to go the mall too).
Coupons are such a waste of precious time: I just get the store card and buy the reasonably priced brands: life is way too short.
Donal
I am repeating myself ‘compulsive’ me………..sometimes I think about something I wrote here I was thinking actually about something I wrote here a few days ago about the weather and then I think oops I think that was ‘erazed’ too (it was!) and again like this is fucking insult to me everything I write or have ever written is what ‘is on my mind’. That’s all I can say good bad or indifferent. It really makes me angry I think if someone hurts me like that how can I hurt them back. That it not really how I operate but I do have those thoughts…………Gretchen you should value ALL your ‘kids’ you don’t like the way my thoughts go no reason to do your ‘censor’ bit. You are wrong on this very very wrong…….
To be clear Gretchen when I say ‘hurt back’ I am NOT thinking or ‘threatening’ anything of any kind of violent nature, I cannot be too careful here I know how this kind of thing can go especially dealing with people with an ability to ‘twist’ things around I am just thinking more like legally and financially probably something that would worry you more anyway…………
So my ‘prediction’ of Hillary Clinton falling apart is coming true. Nothing would surprise me about that shambles like a said a ‘hoax candidate’ but I wonder a bit too. WHY would all these corrupt and powerful people WANT her in and of course they know about her problems. So they ‘expect’ her to fall apart do they want Trump to win then? Kind of rabbit hole that one but Hillary Clinton is finished I doubt she will make it through the debates let alone the election. So weird what a weird world we live in now. Obama must have known all this and her husband too yet they push her forward. It also for me hightligths the kind of absurd way we live grasping for money and power and really a few breaths away from death. The Pharoes for example had much more wisdom and a much longer view ours is very short indeed. It’s hard not to see that the human race is just getting worse and worse and no amount of ‘human rights’ or ‘gay rights’ or any kind of ‘rights’ can disguise that fact. Gretchen I wonder if you will find that comment ‘homophobic’ or ‘racist’ or something and EVEN IF IT WAS you have no business ‘erasing’ it. I am sure George Orwell talked about this just making things ‘disappear’ well you may try but I am not so easily stopped
I am not usually totally on board with Alex Joans still I think this is a good one and ties into funnily enough to my gripes about ‘censorship’ or ‘taking things down’. It seems this video of Hillary falling on 9/11 HAS been taken down a lot just like Gretchen takes my stuff down. Changes nothing just shows people have something to hide
I find it ironic also and I have really just ‘heard this I don’t know for a fact but that Barry B has been very very interested in JFK’s murder. Ok so what I think that’s of course fine I am also. But you would never really know that that kind of stuff is not ‘feeling’ enough and I think this is one of the lamest distinctions there is. To any and all things can be of interest and are ‘feeling’ by the very definition of being alive. I have changed my mind about a lot of things over the last few years and I think ‘mental change’ also reflects deeper changes but we can more easily talk about them on a kind of mental level. But here we have this kind of lame distinction and supported and enforced by Jack above all who at the same time brags how he ‘thinks’ long and hard about things. If I ‘think’ at all it is called being ‘in my head. and all of this just seems symptomatic of double standards and hypocricy. I mean there HAS to be some explanation of the ‘weak’ results we have seen from primal patients over many many years now. Do they want reform? No it seems to me most of them are too discouraged to even want that and the therapists such as they are I don’t know is it just some kind of early retirement for them. If nothing else some of the stuff I have been talking about is a CHANGE, does anyone here want that no it seems not. Bolster and repeat the eternal verities of primal that’s what this is supposed to be. That does not work for me at all.
I think Tim has already said it. It’s Gretchen’s blog, and she can do with it whatever she likes
Anyone that does not like it, is free to go elsewhere … Unless they have no-where else to go. 😦 .
Jack
Hi all. Just wanted to say that I think ‘mental’ changes, how we think about things, people, etc. comes from what ‘feeling’ episodes we have ( or don’t have if we are still trapped by the past.) I don’t believe thinking about things or thinking in general is anti-feeling, but rather an outgrowth of feeling. Some of our thinking will change because of the freedom we have now after feeling the bad stuff, so we can see more clearly.
I guess that is what is meant by plasticity of the brain–when you can feel your unlove from the past and can finally love in the present. But you can’t will or think yourself to love.
You can have purely intellectual interests and they might be more enjoyable if you are no longer depressed or scatter-brained once having felt your bad feelings. You can direct your energy toward the topic better, at least that is what I’ve found.
But what I like best about having felt ‘old stuff’ is that I can care about friends more.
S
You’ve been away for a while. It’s nice to see you back Sylvia.
Thank you Larry. I always read the comments and glad you are feeling better. I deal with some fatigue issues myself, so know something of what you go thru.
Today I was able to cry about some stuff not before possible. Visiting or going to get my brother at the mental hospital for a weekend home visit. He was psychotic after he reached age 17 or 18.
An awful thing to see happen.
Similar to visiting my mother in earlier years in that they were in terrible places. And remembering my brother when we were younger and played together. Things not newly remembered, just being able to connect with how sad that all is.. Also remembering an exciting family moment when we got pets, and then to contrast that with the things which happened a few years later.
Phil
Patrick, For the record I do in fact consider your comments a threat. Very much so. I am surprised you would think that threats would be the best way to either reach me or have an impact on me. I also suggest you go back and re-read what you posted. It was not a simple article about 911 nor were the implications in what you posted about the weather lost on me or others. You have also discussed these subjects before so we all get it. That said this is exactly the outcome you wanted. In my opinion you get something from posting these things, having them removed and then crying victim. One second you are saying you are sad to leave the blog and the next you are once again doing what you have been asked not to do. I think that is worth examining. I am not conspiring to get you to leave I simply have asked that you keep your racist, homophobic and anti Semitic views to yourself or write them elsewhere. You like to believe others are trying to control your views . You are free to think whatever you choose to and you have been given complete freedom here to say what you think for a very long time. But on this particular subject it is enough. The difference between the things others repeat and what you are repeating is the rage and cruelty behind your comments. You say you do not know what you have done…. I believe that to some degree, mainly because you seem at times to have very little insight about yourself. You might very well think you are discussing an interesting topic in history. But what everyone else is seeing is rage, insults, ignorance and prejudice . Why would a person continue posting these things despite being asked multiple times to stop? You have been told you can speak of other things ….but you can’t, it is impossible for you. Don’t you wonder why that is? I personally think it is not us you are trying to convince but yourself. Parallel to that is your compulsion to make yourself an outcast . When you finally accomplished your task and I have no choice but to say that I have had enough of the hate talk you are then completely perplexed! Additionally you have no ability to see that you can’t tolerate for one second anyone disagreeing with you. Your way of dealing with that is to insult, bully and now threaten and then start again trying to convince us and yourself that your viewpoint makes sense. It is truly a compulsion. This is what you wanted, what you set up and yet you have no insight about that at all. A good example of the way in which you deal with things was your approach to your friend Tim. You declare him a great guy that is until until he says his own opinion. If he dares to speak his own mind the insults will begin. You see yourself as a free thinker but I disagree, a true free thinker has the ability to accept the opinions of others. On top of that no one is looking for a guru more than you. The point is Patrick this is about hatred, it’s not about me or Daniel or anyone else here. You say you don’t hate Jews. Well if that is true then you really have a problem. For someone who doesn’t hate Jews you have certainly made some of the most ugly, vicious and nasty comments I have ever heard. . There is a very ugly side to you that you continue to assault others with and if you had any ability to see that I think it would horrify you. You are paranoid about multiple issues and I have to assume it is a nightmare to be you with all the fears you seem to carry around looking to attach to some place or another. You are a feeling searching for a conspiracy. I can’t imagine that you have not acted this out multiple times in your life. Isn’t it time to stop? Gretchen
You are on the wrong blog.
Jack
> Patrick,
> I hope you can let it in these words of Gretchen are not hostile, but actually contain genuine care.
> if there would be no care or concern about you you would be kicked off the blog long ago.
>
> I truely hope you can take some time to reflex calmly on what you feel inside, on what your drives might be, even just for the sake of curiosity, momentarily put aside your rational thoughts about your factual issues in the present and the subjects you focus on.
>
> I hope you can have a look at the larger picture of your feelings, needs and hurt, and where your anger and frustration might really have its roots in.
>
> noone here wants to wish you anything bad, on the contrary, most of us have tried to help you in the past many times.
>
> so please take your time and reflect on the emotional side of al of this, regardless of any theoretical issues, they are secondary really.
>
> Margaret
My feeling about Patrick is one I have held for some years, going back to before he came onto this blog. I worked for and with him for over 25 years, and felt in that time I knew him reasonably well.
He is first and foremost a very talented salesman. Secondly he had the drive to work 17 hours a day to make his company successful … and succeeded. Thirdly he had a talent for choosing the right people to work for him. However, he was and remains IMO a very linear thinker. The very opposite to being reflexive; either upon himself or even in his drive to succeed. In the business this was a major asset. However, in terms of this therapy, or even his indulgence on this Primal Institute blog; I feel does and did not serve him.
He thinks, and I feel, he feels everyone thinks in the same manner. It is for this reason that asking him to be reflexive is not a part of who he is, and as such is a forlorn task to ask of him.
I am not attempting to be critical of anyone’s comment/s trying to help him. I just feel it a forlorn task. What anyone should do about this I do not know. I will leave it up to those who run this blog.
Jack
“He is first and foremost a very talented salesman. Secondly he had the drive to work 17 hours a day to make his company successful … and succeeded.”
– hmm, beginning to see the problem…
I think you mean ‘reflective’ not ‘reflexive’ not that it makes much difference the ‘standards’ here are pretty low so you can ‘pass’ in that kind of environment. Close enough for government work or your ‘books’
Thanks for the correction.
Jack
Phil,
I responded to one of you posts on Sunday (about grocery shopping) but only later read the posts about your friend G which were more important, and what you posted about your brother.
Do I follow correctly in that dealing with G is bringing up these memories about your brother and, perhaps, memories of your mother from earlier in your child hood?
Donal.
Donal,
The meeting with G brought up a lot of feelings, he really triggered me with how desperate, crazy, and manipulative he is. It pushed me into some feelings about my mother, and what was especially significant was a new insight on how she was actually crazy too. Being around her on a visit would have me feeling trapped. Quite similar to being around G. Like, I just want to get away, I can’t take anymore.
The memories about my brother emerged yesterday as I was doing some crying on general sadness having to do with my childhood. This surprised me and it was really good to have this happen as it was the first time. I think it’s just because I was ready for it.
Interacting with G is often not at all pleasant, to say the least. His desperation and craziness remind of terrible things from my childhood. I really don’t need that. I have not been responding to any of his calls the last few days. They would only be about begging to get together again.
But what I cried about with my brother was a good memory in contrast to bad ones later on when he became psychotic, and has been ever since, unable to have a life at all. There will probably be a lot more to come on that theme.
Thanks for asking.
Phil
Your losses with your mom and then your brother are just so huge Phil. To have had those times, those connections and love with your brother and then to have him gone in so many ways is too overwhelming…
So much less would be understood about mental health back then, and it doesn’t sound like your dad helped you with it at all. Hope you can write more about what you can here.
L
feel bad and doomed. i never know what to do in this situation. i forget that i can listen to music and maybe feel something. feel so bad. usually watch tv shows to numb the pain.
this beautiful man. i needed a beautiful man to take care of me, keep me from harm. didnt get one.
You know how a cat or maybe even a dog, will start huffing and puffing, heaving chest, for a few seconds, and them throw up some grass or other food? i get tears and the feeling wants out, a blast of volcanic feeling wants out, loud feeling, and i cant let it out, not at home (too loud) not even at the PI. probably too much danger attached to it. damn.
> I was reminded of some of my own patterns I have struggled with many times during my life.
> I used to get into a lot of struggles with the wrong kind of men, namely those who were not really that interested in me to start with..
> that is not my main point.
> what matters is things used to escalate, and most often I was setting myself up for it.
> big arguments and struggles would arise, and in hindsight, as they did get worse, part of me wanted it to.
> finally some of it started making sense, but at a high price of a lot of hurting and losing some friendships which meant a lot to me.
>
> one of the main driving forces feelingwise, was wanting the guy of the moment to see/unerstand/acknowledge he was not treating me right, of course a ful recreation of my past history with my dad.
> the vague hope that at some point he/they would see how nice I am, that I deserve better, and allow themselves to love me, or even dare to do so.
> so why did I enjoy the escalation?
> that revealed another big aspect of my pattern.
> while crying, and feeling mommy mommy so often, it became clear what I wanted was things getting so obviously bad my mom would intervene and tell my dad he was not treating me as he should…
>
> she was part of the construction really, as to me, as a child, she kept telling me daddy did love me really, reinforcing the idea under the neglect true love was hidden somewhere.
>
> so if my struggles with those guys would get to a point they would really treat me rude enough, I’d end up being ‘in my right’, and my feeling of indignation would finally get some actual validity and support from the surroundings…
>
> not a good pattern, and a very tricky one too…
>
> I guess it might be resonating somehow with what Patrick seems to be going through, although of course there are differences as always, our lifes are always a personal history with its own distinct aspects.
> it just struck me how driving something up to some extreme did strike me as familiar somehow, and can have its own primal reasons which need to be recognized to break through the pattern at some point.
>
> and still it always remains dangerous to slip into that pattern again, but it seems easier to detect it in time and stop.
>
> this recreating is such an interesting topic, but it is sad it causes so much pain and spoils the life of so many people, including mine up to some point in the past.
> M
> yesterday I went with my sister to visit my mom, and it was actually a very nice visit.
> of course there were the repetitions and her lack of memory, but there were many very nice moments.
> at some point we went to give a picture we tok last week, of another male resident putting his arm around my mom at a music afternoon there, and boy, my mom really stunned us all.
> the man asked how much it was for the picture, nothing of course, and my sister laughed and said, well, a kiss will do.
> he kissed her on the cheek first, and then my mom, being told he had given her some flowers the week before they had all received on the music event, also felt like kissing him of course, but his cheek was clearly not good enough for her, she said no that is not a real kiss, bent over again and kissed him straight on his lips, haha!
> he did like it.
> we met him again later on in the garden, mom had already forgotten who he was, but more or less the same thing happened.
> it was sweet and innocent, making evereyone smile and feel happy.
>
> then as the man’s last name was Woolf, a bit later on in the hallway we were waiting for someone, and my mom got inspired by the woolf and started to sing an old song about little red what’s her name, riding hood? the girl fron the fairy tale with the woolf and the granny.
> she started singing all the verses, telling the whole fairy tale, and it was really heartwarming, specially the way she did it.
> she personified all the characters in different ways, intonations and movements, and she was actually both playful and very skilled at it.
> it was a long song and it was a real pleasure to listen to her.
> it reminded me of how good she once was at a nursery school teacher, a Montessori kind .
> she was good at telling tales and at singing songs and at catching everyone’s attention in a nice way.
> so that made me feel really good and warm.
>
> then in her room she got this National Geographic book from soewhere, and to our surprise once she had found her glasses, she started to read out long parts of two articles, one about forensic medicine and one about white sharks, and we were so surprised at how well she was reading, and also about how much pleasure she clearly got out of it.
> so that was nice to discover, that she seems better able to do this again, so we can start bringing her nice things to read, stuff with pictures and short articles that could interest her.
> it is so clear now she is in a good place, opening up and feeling happy.
> of course it still remains exhausting after a while to keep answering the same questions over and over, but still, it leaves a nice feeling to visit her like this.
> she is at peace with living there, so we can be so as well and enjoy it as much as possible.
> M
Margaret,
It’s nice to hear your mother is doing well and it sounds like it was a great visit
for everyone, including that male resident.
Phil
Hi Margaret,
So enjoyed the good tidings about your mom. She is settling in quite well and enjoying her activities and friendships it sounds like.
Speaking of your past boyfriends and your reasons for choosing them; I used to pick very strong-willed fellows to help me stand up to my mom. But after awhile I realized they could be as hard to handle as my mom was.
Have a nice day.
S
> Hi Sylvia,
> yes, it is too bad it often (in my case anyway) takes so long before we see through our own patterns..
> specially as I also took 20 years between reading the Primal scream and finally making the step to go for it.
> from then on things started getting sorted out bit by bit, a process that is still on its way..
> hope you have/find a nicer boyfriend now..
> I am considering joining a dating site, everyone seems to end up finding someone there seemingly at some point..
> M
Hi Margaret. I’m pretty content making it on my own now. For years I helped my mom and she helped me during my issues with chronic fatigue. Seems strange to say, but feel a freedom to be myself now. I think I just got used to giving in and trying to make my mom happy that I lost sight of my own personality. I just wanted to be a friend to her, but she would not ever see me as an equal. Even when I cooked a nice meal, she would say that some day you will be a good cook, instead of, ‘wow, this is good.’
I guess I see relationships as compromising and losing a part of yourself. I like most now just having a couple of friends where everything feels even.
S
Sylvia: After reading Your statement at the end of your comment, I felt the need to relate my own experience. I have had 5 long term relations (each more than a two years period) and I agree totally that there is the need to compromise on many issues. However, I disagree that one has to lose a part of oneself in order to compromise.
My way of dealing with it to have my feelings, in particular my irritations and angers, out of earshot of my current partner. That way I am able to have the feeling and at the same time prevent the spiring effect … by having it out with my partner. It does take a little practices, since the normal thing is to have it out with the person involved.
Jack
Jack:
“I felt the need to relate my own experience”
it may be just me being an arsehole, but you often seem to “third-person (or is it 2nd?)” your feelings rather than just say them…
You don’t need to abstract into intellectualism for me, I know how smart you are, and just love ya’ the way you are – when you are…
😉
Erron
Erron: Thanks … I liked the compliment about being smart. Maybe cos I got a smart car yeah!!!!! 🙂 🙂 .
Yeah I need ti to be aware of speaking in the third or second person … was not aware of doing it so I will now be conscious, and look out for it..
Jack
> Sylvia,
> yes, I think moms have a strong tendency to keep ‘educating’ their daughters I guess.
> I can relate to enjoying living alone, well, with my cats, it can be very nice.
> it is even getting hard for me by now to imagine being in a relationship would be an improvment and worth the ‘effort’ and energy to get it started up and working.
> on the other hand I remember the thrill and joy of being together with someone I feel in love with, specially when it seems to be mutual, and even more so when it is working out.
> any way of spending time then is fine, I guess it really takes a right kind of person, which are fairly rare, but if it happens it is so great, as I recall.
> I remember being on the phone for hours just chatting, enjoying walking around, having drinks in a bar and talking and laughing endlessly, having deep intimate conversations and not to mention the rest of the closeness..
> I’d be surprised to run into that kind of thing again but who knows,but then I better make some effort as they won’t come ringing my doorbell out of the blue probably…
>
> maybe it is good it does not feel like a need anymore, just as a possibly nice option..
> and in the meantime enjoying life with oneself and the cats, and the satisfaction of studying and some other activities , family and friends..
> M
Hi Margaret. Yes, I remember the good times too, even though it’s been a long, long time. Nice to be able to remember. I agree there is joy in the simple things of cats and dogs and of family and friends. More so since allowing myself feelings and not seeing all things through a lens of depression. I’m thankful for the primal process, for sure.
Jack, I hear you. It probably will take a while before I’m not ‘gun-shy’ to be so close to someone again, and be objective. It is probably a matter of just choosing friends who don’t want to be domineering. I have to watch myself too, to not to try and act-out being bossy with friends, relaying how I was treated and undervalued by my mom. It is a balancing act and of also giving myself time and space to trust.
Sylvia: Ok, I read you also. I just thought to add my way of doing things … especially in relationships. It works for me … least-ways for now. Take cared and good luck with friends and potential romantic relation for the future.
I do find having someone (never perfect IMO), but at my age the feeling of having a companion is very important for me. I sure will be devastated if I lose him, but I have spent time living alone in the past; so the chance of it happening again, would not be new.
Jack
not sure if it’s universal or not, but at all my ages I’ve just felt how important it is to be held when I hurt…
or even when for no reason at all…
Erron: I feel the absolutely necessary for us all to be held often, throughout life … but especially in those very formative years. I wonder at times if the hugs that now seem more prevalent, after Kruschev hugged Uri Gargaren made it a more common practice. All this English ‘hand shaking’ is so unfeeling. I (luckily) still get it and of course give it. My mother would often say to us kids … we too boys slept together and the two girls slept together … “Cuddle one another” She’d cuddle/hold us from time to time. Never for long enough but at least something. So I tell my Jimbo and he’s caught on. He wishes he’d met my mother (Emily) as he will refer to her and look up to heaven … depending on his feeling towards me at any given moment, would either chastise her or praise her. He met my father.
I wonder Erron is this and example of you saying, “speaking in the third or second person???”
Jack
You’re right Jack -I- need to be held a lot!
> Tom,
> don’t know if you get comments by mail, but how was your trip to Europe??
>
> and Guru, are you still there??
>
> Bernadette? Renee? John?
> Linda, Crystal?
> Sandy?
> Vicky?
> sorry to those that escape me right now, feel tired..
> today finally, after almost six months waiting, my landlord sent me two guys to check out the spots where to install central heating.
> my hot water boiler was not working properly since march, with a few tricks I managed to still use it, with some risk probably, and despite promises from the landlord time kept going by.
> recently it broke down completely, in a bit of a spectacular way, steam coming out of the tab, luckily after I left the shower as I needed to turn the boiler off before closing the tabs with my system…
> then three days of waiting in vain for the workmen my landlord had promised me again, and today finally hurray!
> a girlfriend was here which was handy to decide on the details, and also because I will move with my cats to her place for a few days while the work is done here and my whole place will be upside down.
> still a few weeks from now, if things don’t get postponed again, but it feels good finally something starts moving and this will be taken care of.
> scary too, moving the cats around, and managing hopefully without too much problems to keep them there and to get them back in their cages to come back home as well…
>
> a nice guy called me as well today, the guy from these tropical islands, who told me today he is divorcing from his wife…
>
> so mm, who knows, this opens up more perspectives..
> told him when I last saw him a few months ago I wished to focus on friendship and only that certainly as long as he was married etc.
> still don’t know if anything more is there feelingwise, but hey, smiley, it was nice to hear him..
> M
and Marianne – of Leonard Cohen fame – died today:
http://montrealgazette.com/entertainment/arts/marianne-ihlen-more-than-leonard-cohens-muse
another door to the past slams a cold draft in my face…
A “blissfully romantic life”…what a fantasy for me…
didn’t mean to be trite with your feeling. pretty cold draft. i have had a few of those.
no problem, understood…
i was trying to get to a memorial today for my cousin who died recently. too far to go. too tired. usually i go to the PI on Saturdays to cry while listening to music. couldnt go there either. cry at home. catching up on tears i kept inside from previous losses, like my grandma’s funeral. My cousin was tearing up at that one, maybe he is seeing her now. good group last night. good to hear people opening up in a real way about their lives. i am so fucking sad. it is almost over. also my wife going away.
“I’m a fool, but I’ll love you dear
Until the day I die
Now and then there’s a fool such as I”
mommy where you go? i sad
Now, after the class reunion I didn’t attend people are posting photos. Same deal in that there are very few people I remember.
I do think there’s important (bad) stuff in all of this for me to remember. Maybe I can fix some of it in my head, if not in reality. I can’t go back and make friends I never had or be popular.
The issue is, wanting to be popular but never really trying. Closely related to wanting my mother to see me, pay attention to me, to be popular with her, without my trying, at least not in any direct way, although she was dead long before I went to high school.
A huge deficit from her, I have acted out my entire life.
Phil
Phil, I see what you say in your connection. For not wanting ‘to try’ again with others for attention, so as to repeat how it was in your past when care was very needed and expected. Good connection; sad feeling.
S
gee i actually feel good after laying in bed for 2 hours with the cat and dog and crying some tears. that’s a new one. still, cant do what i want. wife wants dinner. dogs want walks and steak or chicken. cat wants to jump the fence. i just want to watch buster keaton.
> I just saw a short part of a ‘royalty’ program, but this was about a visit to an 18th century castle where the count still lives with his family, in a part of the castle. the rest is open to the public, and contstantly being looked after and renovated by a staff of ten people.
> I was surprised at how charmed I was by hearing and watching the count giving the journalist a guided tour.
> he sounded so friendly,well educated, polite and distinguished really. but all of that in a very relaxed way.
> his daughter appeared as well, she was about to go study in England, knew she had been privileged to grow up in such a beautiful setting, and said she might take over the full time job of looking after the family castle later on.
> there was also an adorable black Labrador with puppies, which the count clearly loved.
> I grew up in an 18th century house myself, that was part of a castle’s property. the castle was in walking distance, owned back then by a baron.
> later on with the actual owner we once had the chance of a visit, and boy, it is so nice and full of atmosphere, the new owner was an antiques business man, but also so well-educated and gentle, no presumptions whatsoever, he occasionally came by to our house for a chat, and was at my dad’s funeral.
> I notice how seeing this documentary touches a chord, haha, a romantic fairy tale kind of chord, the combination of the beauty of a castle and its quietness and peace, with the well-educated gentleness and friendliness of what sounds like a gentleman feeling good, and calm and pleased with his life.
> boy, haha, I could get used to that kind of life, with a partner like that.
> what touches me most I guess, is what feels like a combination of education and gentleness and the art of living, with the means and beautiful surroundings of real old quality.
> must admit I always loved these old fashioned romantic novels from time to time, always with a happy ending after some kind of trouble..
> it is also just nice to know beauty and peace do exist somewhere, and quality.
> I have a soft spot for old stuff, stuff with a soul and a history, furniture or little things that have been cherished by a number of people.
> and mm, I guess the idea of a nice, gentle well educated guy with a sense of humor and emotional stability is also a nice daydream..
> am in the middle of my actual course of philosophy , and it remains surprisingly interesting, how ideas have kept evolving over the centuries, building on each other and correcting themselves in various ways all the time.
> it feels nice to get acquainted with all these thinkers, it is satisfying to joing their journey so to say.
>
> and mom is still feeling ok, cats are jumping over my laptop so time to quit,
> M
Sorry, I sent that too quick. It should be clear that it is Margaret’s writings.
But here it is again:
> I just saw a short part of a ‘royalty’ program, but this was about a visit to an 18th century castle where the count still lives with his family, in a part of the castle. the rest is open to the public, and constantly being looked after and renovated by a staff of ten people.
> I was surprised at how charmed I was by hearing and watching the count giving the journalist a guided tour.
> he sounded so friendly,well educated, polite and distinguished really. but all of that in a very relaxed way.
> his daughter appeared as well, she was about to go study in England, knew she had been privileged to grow up in such a beautiful setting, and said she might take over the full time job of looking after the family castle later on.
> there was also an adorable black Labrador with puppies, which the count clearly loved.
> I grew up in an 18th century house myself, that was part of a castle’s property. the castle was in walking distance, owned back then by a baron.
> later on with the actual owner we once had the chance of a visit, and boy, it is so nice and full of atmosphere, the new owner was an antiques business man, but also so well-educated and gentle, no presumptions whatsoever, he occasionally came by to our house for a chat, and was at my dad’s funeral.
> I notice how seeing this documentary touches a chord, haha, a romantic fairy tale kind of chord, the combination of the beauty of a castle and its quietness and peace, with the well-educated gentleness and friendliness of what sounds like a gentleman feeling good, and calm and pleased with his life.
> boy, haha, I could get used to that kind of life, with a partner like that.
> what touches me most I guess, is what feels like a combination of education and gentleness and the art of living, with the means and beautiful surroundings of real old quality.
> must admit I always loved these old fashioned romantic novels from time to time, always with a happy ending after some kind of trouble..
> it is also just nice to know beauty and peace do exist somewhere, and quality.
> I have a soft spot for old stuff, stuff with a soul and a history, furniture or little things that have been cherished by a number of people.
> and mm, I guess the idea of a nice, gentle well educated guy with a sense of humor and emotional stability is also a nice daydream..
> am in the middle of my actual course of philosophy , and it remains surprisingly interesting, how ideas have kept evolving over the centuries, building on each other and correcting themselves in various ways all the time.
> it feels nice to get acquainted with all these thinkers, it is satisfying to joing their journey so to say.
>
> and mom is still feeling ok, cats are jumping over my laptop so time to quit,
> M
Margaret,
Castles are interesting places to visit. But as to royalty; off with their heads!
Just kidding, that’s too extreme, just take away their crowns.
Here we don’t have royalty but do have entertainment and sports stars, with luxurious lives to be be fascinated with. The Kardashians seem to be our royal family. I find it all so frivolous. At work, a complaint of mine is that we only ever have magazines focused on celebrities lying around for the patients and us to read. The people in those magazines live extreme lifestyles in “palaces’, quite similar to an actual royal family. Donald Trump is kind of a part of this crowd due to success on reality TV shows and how he garners attention. I would hate to have him and his royal family ruling us.
Phil
Margaret: Reading your post about the aristocracy and living in castles, I feel is ‘romantic fantasy’ Form my learning, and readings of English history I am not so sure their lives, and especially their child-hoods were any less traumatic than most others. The Aristocracy’s children are grossly indoctrinated with the most rigorous behaviors, which seem, from their biographies and many other titles of their life, must have been very traumatic. Especially and including the present Queen of England and most of her decedents; to be living in guided cages; cages nevertheless Their behaviors taught and instilled into them in their own formative years are far from pleasant, from many of the accounts I have read about. My very first encounter on attending The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art. was such an aristocrat. Sure he seemingly had all the preventives, but what accompanied most of that was a behavior that was far from their ‘real selves’s, as I saw it.
If one were to only read the plays of Shakespeare of the histories, and see more closely their lives … it wasn’t, for the most part, even safe. Other English literature:- “Brides- head Revisited” by Evelyn Waugh, “Ivanhoe” by Sir Walter, Scott et al. Not for me … thanks.
I could wish for a better child-hood, BUT I have no desire to have been brought up with privileges. Even our fairy tales seem to bend towards Princes and Princesses. Just because they don’t have to do the chores most of us have to perform they nevertheless have chores. One needs to look no further to Elizabeth II when in public. Geeze … does she even have a life???????
Jack
In 1988, I visited Miami Beach, and walked into a well-known luxury hotel (The Fountainblue Hotel, I think it was.) A lot of luxury there, but I felt kind of unfree there, since it was so upper-class, that I was kind of afraid to make a wrong move. I didn’t stay there, I just walked around the lobby or gift shop. This may be how it is for a kid growing up in the English Royal Family.
Christopher: Simple solution;- abolish the monarchy, governments, lawmaking, and the glue that holds all this stuff in place thinking we need it all; because we’re all worried about the other guy ……. yet we are all of us “the other guy”, yeah??
Jack
tired of this shit. think it’s a feeling? maybe. tired cant move. diabetes. too much to do. taxes to do. no one to help. laying in a bassinette with no joy in the future. living with old people, little joy from them, they are too old. i am too old. tired of this fucking shit. i would attempt to feel it if z were not here. dogs and cats that need stuff every second. pains from the past flood my present. screw this fucking shit. no screwing either. even if it did take place, it would be pretty much meaningless. fuck this shit.
Phil,
i too see the connection between not trying to be popular and your mother, I never thought about it but I have always acted out in a similar way. Passively waiting and hoping my parents will give me some attention or draw me out…..I tend to act this out with people generally.
I am not sure how similar it is to what you are saying but when I read your post I instantly saw that part of myself clearly,
Donal
> Phil, haha, some people will be slightly surprised at first at reading about your attraction to a count..
>
> and Otto,
> I get the impression you and Z still do care about each other.
> why would sex be meaningless? it can be a way of communicating as well, a lot of opportunities for tenderness there apart from the rest.
> somehow I get the impression communication is the key problem, or am I completely wrong?
> it is painful to know you feel so unhappy, wish there was something I could do.
> M
> Jack,
> I was not making any statements about aristocracy in general at all.
> I was merely talking about my own feelings triggered by watching one particular person and his daughter.
> she seemed kind of ok at first sight, when she said she was aware of having been able to grow up in a privileged setting, adding she was very aware of that and tried to enjoy it consciously , she just came across as being real and simply a nice person.
> a lot of these people are not really rich anymore, in the sense that so much of their former wealth goes into taking care of the property, which they love, of course. most of them open it up to the public to some degree, and actually manage to preserve it and the surrounding pieces of nature by doing so.
> but hey, as I said, I was not expressing any opinion about ‘them’, as I am sure a lot of them are pretty sick as well, like many of them being into religion but also perverted in other ways. but as everywhere, every person is different and well, this discussion seems superfluous really.
> what struck me as i said repeatedly was the friendliness and good manners, which probably means something more to me feeling wise like opposite to what I had as a child.
> nothing wrong with feeling attracted by that.
> M
Margaret: I have a feeling we are talking crossed purposes. I did not think for a moment that you were condoning wealth or aristocracy, but wishing for something that I was obviously not clear about. The Public Broadcasing Sevice here has been showing endlessly the BBC’s “Downton Abbey”, which I am very aware of since Jim, my partner, is an avid viewer of it. To me it represent the very worst of the British and I wonder at the American public’s like of it. It’s the most disgusting aspect of the inequalities of peoples all over the planet.
Preserving these monsterous monuments of Greed, Shear gross decoration of so called homes, the lauding it over others (upstairs and downstairs mentality), and is IMO the best way to prevent a feeling-full human race.
To make one final pitch:- It’s MONEY that creates this inequality, and whilst any means of exchange, rather than the NATURAL GIVING & TAKING that was there for each of at birth … we are losing the battle for a feeling-full human race, that Primal Therapy is aiming to put each of back to becomming that, that we were ALL born with. It’s not that currency/money in-and-of-itself; for it only paper and metal coins. It’s the ‘trappings’ that surrounds it, and does it’s utmost to maintain … subliminally … I contend.
Lastly, your suggesting that the girl was happy about he piveledge is something I personally find “wrong headed”. It sounds innocent enough on first encounter, but it reveals an indoctrination that IS THE PROBLEM … for ALL of us. We all got doust in it’s horrors.
Jack
‘like many of them being into religion’…………..as if people here are not? Not that I think (anymore) that being into religion is ‘bad’ it is such a huge factor in life and in at attempt to make sense of it. Like everyday pretty much I see Jack ‘into religion’ as in ‘bless Janov for his great discovery nay not only the greatest ever made the greatest that ever will be made’ a sort of pure expression of religious belief and i am not saying it is ‘bad’ it seems to be a human primal need we might say……….
I feel you are grossly mis-using the word Religion. If it is your feeling that I am worshiping at some shrine … that, I suggest is your feeling … NOT A UNIVERSAL FACT. I suggest you own it.
Jack
If I remember rightly; it was you that went to the shrine and waited outside to insult anyone leaving.
Go figure Jack
A little bit more about ‘belief systems’ and religions etc in this case ‘psychology’ itself. This is from Jon Rappoport so Jack please don’t be ‘reflexive’ but be a bit ‘reflective’ and start critiquing this guy as if it is me it is just me quoting him. Got that clear as you seem to have problems along these lines
“Psychiatry is just another organized religion. Instead of a wafer and a sip of wine, they have drugs. Lots of toxic drugs. Their cosmology is a picture they paint, the subject of which is Normal. Sane. Average. Adjusted. By their definitions.”
“Psychiatry would like to be known as some kind of ultimate information theory. Information theory is what the loser in a poker game is left with. It’s all he’s got, so he has to go out on the street and try to sell it, hypnotize people with it. Pure scrubbed data, as empty and dead as the face of an old politician.”
“Today’s psychiatrists are playing around with brain signals. They have no idea what the mind is. No idea what consciousness is. No idea what freedom is. They have no idea how different individuals would be from one another if they broke out of the collective prison of The Normal.”
“The Wizard of Psychiatry is a hustler from way back. His job is to make Normal plausible.”
“Everything a human being is starts to come into view when he gets rid of Normal.”
“Psychiatry and its government, media, and intelligence-agency allies are saying, ‘See that crazy killer over there? Anybody could turn into that. Even you. So we have to treat the whole population before somebody starts spraying bullets in your neighborhood. We have to sculpt everybody into a good citizen, an average person.'”
“Psychiatry is the Surveillance Society of the brain. The NSA with toxic drugs.”
“Psychiatry is State control of emotion and thought. And its poor cousin, psychology, has devolved into sentimental hokum for the rubes. Slop. The universe and life are much open than that.”
“At the bottom of his titanic pile of nonsense, the Wizard of Psychiatry is saying, ‘You’re not free.’ But you are.”
“Sixty years ago, a hundred years ago, there was an idea in America. The Open Road. Travel the open road. Adventure. Psychiatry is one of the disciplines that’s tried to shut it down.”
“Since there are no definitive physical tests for any of the 300 officially certified mental disorders—no blood tests, no urine tests, no brain scans, no genetic assays—what we’re left with is a phantasm-map of Nowhere Land, a philosophy of limitation. A translation of human problems and suffering into a professional liar’s language, made-up nonsensical technical gibberish. And the federal government licenses this as a monopoly, in line with its made-up version of the Constitution.”
“There never was, and never will be, a science of consciousness, because by its very nature, consciousness is free and unpredictable. Many people find this hard to swallow, because they fear freedom. They know they’ve lost it somewhere, and they don’t want anyone else to have it.”
“Consciousness wants to create more consciousness, and it does so by the use of imagination.”
Patrick: Most of what you quote here I can agree with … BUT whom ever the guy is (Jon Rappoport ) that you are quoting, makes no mention of Arthur Janov AND his major breakthrough that waylayed a great deal of current Neurophysiolgy. Phsychatry, and Fredian Psychology. My reading of Jaov’s works suggested likewise that we’d gotten a lot of things scewed to the extent that it was not helping anyone much. Jon R. seemingly agrees with most of this. However, he is not putting together a contrary thesis; other that to state that what has has gone before is “nonsense”
Anyone is at liberty to state that others and other theories are nonsence, but it takes someone with a little more genius to put a counter theory into play (Primal theory) that I have not heard anyone counter, other than yourself; that is for ever saying it is flawed. That proves nothing. If you wish to dwell in to the rehlms of science, then I feel you need to do a lot more work and a great amount of study … which seemingly you do not want to bother with. You merely search the web for some other guy putting accross his/her opinion and run with it. Not good enough Patrick.
Jack
> you are very sick Patrick, with ugly symptoms and clearly have not learned anything at all, or refused to do so clinging to your nastiness. pretty disgusting is all what is left to say.
> M
> wow, if this is supposed to be an example of Rapaports insights, it kind of does the opposite.
> this is just meaningless nonsense using some fancy words here and there.
> really, what a waste of time to be reading stuff like this, it makes no sense whatsoever and has no meaningful content at all.
> M
What is this, are you going down in a blaze of glory? This is the most ridiculous bullshit I’ve ever seen on the internet. What are you DOING here??
The above was me.
Patrick: I think you are on the wrong blog.
Jack
> Jack, we are not on the same wavelength of communication.
> maybe I am not clear, but it is ok, you have your views which I understand and can agree with, in general, never liked the upstairs downstairs thing at all.
> but here we are , or I was talking about two present members of a family who inherited an old castle, and I only said the young girl said she was very aware of the privilege of having had the possiblility to grow up in that kind of beautiful setting. she said she was therefore consciously paying attention to enjoying it, which is just a way to say she feels grateful, not taking it for granted.
> people can’t help being born in such a setting either, it does not necessarily mean they are not ok.
> that is a whole other issue than what you talk about, that is why i say we are not on the same topic here really.
> i was not gonna say it, but your first response was some kind of a lecture, the good thing is in the past I have told you many times you were starting to lecture me when we would be together on retreats, and you would then always stop immediately.
> so that is why it does not bother me too much, it is a part of you.
> my focus was on the beauty of an old castle and on the attractiveness of a nice personality combined with a good education, and hey,al of it together even a nicer thing to dream about for a brief moment.
> M
Margaretr:- Fine … I don’t totally agree but that’s fine too.
On another note … what’s so terrible about lecturing … don’t you subscribe to them in your studies????
Jack
Here is yet another $.02 on British TV. I used to love the British comedies where they would make fun of their aristocracy worshipping in “To the Manner Born” and “Keeping up Appearances.” My mom and I used to watch the British actors in the matinee movies on TV during the summer months whilst she sewed. Those were good times when we all cared about each other.
Y’all have a good work week.
S
Hey there Erron – I did enjoy that link for “Marianne”. Still like that song so much! TY
And Margaret way back up there – it was great to hear how your visit with your Mom went.
She was so creative and you all enjoyed a good time together. I am glad that she has settled in so well. There is lots of good info. for all of us to absorb. I recently read an article that agreed with your move idea – that is, that it can be overwhelming for an elderly person (esp. with medical complications etc.) – so can be best to get them settled in their new place and then work on clearing out. This along with the info. from Jack about retaining personal power, and of course that each person is an individual with their own wants & needs etc. from Gretchen I believe it was.
“Keeping up Appearances” was so funny with Hyacinth, Rose, Daisy and ? – the 1 you never saw, & must be a flower so how hard can it be – but is for me 🙂 and then Onslo of course… Good stuff Sylvia! Did something drastic happen to take away the caring ?
L
Glad you enjoyed it, Leslie.
Leonard Cohen: God how I wanted to BE him when I was in my 20s! Or Voznesensky or Yevtushenko! Exotic, shunned, misunderstood, exiled to the archipelagoes…
But LOVED by a small important sliver of people. How that nails it…
And yet, after all that fame and fortune he got ripped off by his financial advisors, to the extent that he had to go on tour to pay off his debts, when he was in his 70s!
So in the end, after all the brilliant lines on paper and the pain lines in our faces, that’s all we are: someone hurt in need of caring.
…very drunk and worthless tonight…
E.
Hi Leslie. I almost forgot about the well-to-do Violet, don’t remember seeing her either. Yes, Onslo was funny wearing a sweater vest without a shirt. His wife Daisy, so down-to-earth, was my favorite. Felt for Hyacinth’s quiet unassuming husband.
I don’t think anything big happened to take away our caring. My mom always had a hot temper. She just grew suspicious of people in later years. I don’t think it was personal though it felt like it when she’d be angry at me for no reason.
S
My reaction to Patrick and his post got deleted with his message, which I don’t actually care about, but I did want to expand/reflect on it a bit. When I see that Patrick has posted on this blog, particularly after he has laid low for a while, I get a sinking feeling of “Oh God, he’s still around”. I find what he writes to be for the most part incoherent, boring, ridiculous and obnoxious and I don’t even read it any more, I just sort of scan it. But if and when I react to him, and I’ve for the most part just ignored him, I do wonder if I should be somewhat wary of what I’m “bringing to the party”. I’ve noticed that when I start thinking about someone as a “pain in the arse”, that phrase has for me a definite significance that is no longer lost on me…
I wrote last week about possibly going to a community camp on the weekend, a kind of hippie/new age thing that I was looking forward to. It was borderline, but In the end I decided that with my energy levels being where they were it was just too much of a mission. I didn’t want to just go there and be miserable and have people resent me for it. I wanted to feel I was contributing something with my presence. So I didn’t go, which was very disappointing. I’ve been invited to a friend and his wife’s place to dinner tomorrow, but I’m thinking of canceling or asking that it be postponed also. It’s just been a crap couple of weeks! I woke up this morning from a dream where I was lying in bed and there was a huge hole in the ceiling with water puring through, so I had to jump out and watch my pillow get soaked. For me, a house is a symbol of the self, and waking up from this dream was sobering and depressing. I don’t want a damaged house/self I want it to be beautiful and comfortable.
David, you say that for you, a house is a symbol of the self. That’s OK. With me, I live in a one-bedroom apartment, and I have a tendency to stay in my apartment, being kind of uneasy when I leave my apartment. It’s like a cocoon, or maybe like my mother’s womb–I have a certain comfort, in staying in my apartment. Consider this–the word “room” sounds very similar to the word “womb” (and in fact, a little child, who can’t say his “r’s” yet, could pronounce the word “room” in a way that sounds like “womb”.)
> David,
> I relate so much to what you describe. not feeling up to socializing and then feeling bad for canceling.
> I feel like saying just take good care of yourself, don’t be too hard on yourself, watever you decide on a given moment is ok.
> if you are not up to something allow yourself to cancel and then feel what comes up. a next time you might be more able to go, it is an ongoing struggle but sometimes it is just nice and rigt to give yourself a break.
> it is a painful state to be in, I know, and I am always aware of the risks of canceling too often and turning friends off eventually.
> but you sound like you do make genuine efforts and that is what matters. at some point any road can lead you into the necessary feeling and then things start getting easier little by little.
> good luck, nice to read your comments.
> M
Margaret,
Thanks for your comment, which helped me to get to some underlying pain about my father today and to cry about it. It wasn’t very long or intense, but it was something. What also helped were holding and looking at photos of me in childhood. I went to my mum’s last week ostensibly to help her sort old photos, which I did, but actually I mostly went to find old photos of me, which I’ve been finding to help me to feel on occasion. I have fantasies of time traveling and going back to meet the child I was, of holding me/him and just asking simple stuff about how my day is going and what I like to do as well as hugging my young self, so he knows that someone knows and cares.
I must admit I’m in a bit of quandary about dinner tomorrow. I’ve felt something of an upswing in my energy, so I may go after all. I’ll see how I feel tomorrow.
How are your studies going?
leonard cohen. there for you. my favorite
> David,
> hope you can go and have a nice dinner. usually as soon as I am on my way the fear dissipates, it is always at its worse before actually doing something..
> but even knowing that sometimes is not enough to overcome the paralising feeling of not feeling up to whatever.
> my studying is at this point a steady working every day on summarizing a long course about philosophy, an overview of the history of western philosophy focusing on what can be known as true, turning into what is a good demarcation criterium to divide science from pseudo science.
> it is interesting to learn about the whole evolution of thought that has been going on since Plato with all the different schools and views and all the debates that are often still going on.
> but it is a lot of work, one computer to read out the course to me on a cdrom and the laptop besides it to write the summary, which will turn into a 100 pages or so as well. I will have to make a short overview of my own summary to be able to remember the general lines and details of all the different views.
> the thing is I am in a bit of a time pressure as I also signed up for a complicated course of literature study, part of the statistics program.
> will have to look up and sort out articles about some subjects with scientific search engines, which did not work when I tried it, as it is not only a question of searching in the proper way, but then also sorting stuff out and dwonloading it in some way,summarizing what is important and writing the references in a very specific manner.
> then we have to prepare a kind of research plan also following complicated guidelines, and send in papers which will be commented on to then be corrected by us and sent in again etc.
> we have to do this in pairs, but my fellow student is remaining very silent lately.
> which of course gives me time to work on the philosophy department…
>
> it takes energy but also gives satisfaction.
> and next week my place will be upside dwon as they come to install central heating.
> with a girlfriend we made a whole plan how to keep out of the way and keep the cats out of the way mostly, during those days, but it wil be stressful and a lot of moving furniture and cleaning up kind of stuff.
> but well, let’s hope it will be an improvment, can’t work forever with these old gas stoves as they are really too old and probably unsafe.
> so pretty busy but that is ok, better than being bored!
> this week my weekly gym class starts, which is very nice, find that energizing as well, as it is fun, it is a group thing and different every week, but a good work out really.
> take care, and look forward to hearing if the dinner was ok,
> M
Margaret,
Sadly, I decided I needed to cancel my dinner date. But my friend was very good about it and we’ll arrange for another time. I still might see him tomorrow for coffee (or in my case peppermint tea) depending on how I’m feeling. It wasn’t really about fear, at least not that I’m aware of. It’s more about energy levels and general feeling of discomfort. I need to feel “up”, or it least on the level, if I’m going to be socialising, but definitely not down. There is fear, I’ve discovered, behind this fatigue syndrome, but that’s very hard to get to and feel. Especially on my own.
The study work sounds intense and absorbing though it sounds like you’re on top of things. I hope your new central heating gets up and running smoothly. It is just about the time of year when you’re going to start needing it.
You say you checked and checked a lot. What are your information sources? I’d be interested to read them, provided they give me real information. Are they first hand accounts of people in Europe and the Soviet Republic who lived through WWII, or the children of parents who did? If your sources are opinions only, they may be interesting but wouldn’t give me real information upon which I could base my own opinion.
If there was a Holocaust, it would be obscene to deny the experience of people who suffered through it or died because of it.
If there wasn’t a holocaust, that would be a great relief.
Everything I’ve read and heard, and it’s been a disturbing read, tells me there was a holocaust, and that most of the people who were killed lived in states destroyed by the war and who had no rights or protections. I think we need to look at it and understand how it happened in order to prevent something like that from happening again. It could happen again. It happened in Cambodia.
Larry – a suggestion would be start with Nick Kollerstrom’s “Breaking the Spell” which could be seen as a kind of ‘popularized’ but very thorough and based itself on an enormous amount of reading. Then go to 2 main ‘primary sources’ Fred Leuchter’s “Leuchter report” which was a ‘scientific’ study done by an American Fred Leuchter on the actual feasibility (or not) of ‘gas chambers’ he was a gas chamber designer in the US for death row situations and to me the best and most thorough that I have found “Dissecting the Holocaust” by Germar Rudolp which actually is an anthology or about 20 different authors on the subject but pulled together by German Rudolp. This is quite a massive book and might keep you busy for a few months but I think it is very worthwhile as it is more than ‘one man’s opinion’ and deals with many many different aspects of what is quite a big and confusing subject
Quote:- “it is more than ‘one man’s opinion’ and deals with many many different aspects of what is quite a big and confusing subject”.
Being more than ones mans opinion doesn’t say anything about it’s validity. If there were millions with the same opinon that might have some bearing.
Next:- “many different aspects of what is quite a big and confusing subject”.. Oh! is it??? My take is it’s a very simple subject. Read Mein Kamp for starters. Afterwards you might have some credibility. Not a lot but some … perhaps.
Jack
Your ‘interludes’ of self knowledge don’t seem to last that long and then it’s back to ‘attack dog’ mode…………your ‘points’ here are pretty much beside any point at it’s just reflexive attack dog mode but as a factual point I have read “Mein Kamp”………….not sure what your point is there oh I forgot you don’t have one you are just compulsivly and reflexivly being your attack dog self………….and I suppose here you feel ‘support’ for your shenanigns which really just shows you as a coward………just ganging up with the crowd and you feel you have the ‘support’ of Teacher are you hot for Teacher (Van Halen)
So You knew/know he had a plan for Jews then??????
Jack
Patrick, I agree it is a big subject in that there seems to be a lot written about it, more than the average individual could read all of and assess. Spurred by your arguments to think more about it, it seems to me that I (everyone) at some point comes to trust and have at least and open minded sceptical faith in the truth delivered by the authors we read. For instance, I’ve never seen a proton or an electron but I accept and believe what I’m told about their existence because there is so much corroborating evidence, understanding and technical and scientific development that follows from their discovery and knowing their properties.
Over that last 20 years, I’ve done a lot of reading about European history, the Middle East, and a little about China, out of curiosity and a thirst to understand how the political and religious developments and tensions brought us to where we are today in world affairs. Scanning my bookshelves, I count 36 books I’ve read on history. A most disturbing book that I just finished reading is “Black Earth. The Holocaust as History and Warning” by Timothy Snyder, copyright 2015. No doubt my interest also stems from wanting to know about the conditions of my grandparents’ lives and how that influenced my parents and me. My grandparents came from Poland and the Ukraine and settled on the Canadian prairies in the 1920s, only 50 years after the last buffalo were killed off and the indigenous people were removed leaving the virgin prairie open for European settlement.
Only in grade school (grades 1-8) was I taught history. I wasn’t taught about the Spanish Inquisition and the persecution and burning of people accused of witchcraft that went on right into the 1800s, I wasn’t taught about the Holocaust, and I wasn’t taught that the opening of the North American west was a form of ethnic cleansing to remove indigenous people from their land who were considered sub-human with no rights, to make room for Europeans. When I learned about these things in adulthood through my reading, they disturbed and shattered my naivete.
Hitler was inspired by the genocide that opened up the North American west and that led to the growth and development of the United States as a world super power. He believed in the struggle for survival of the races and that might was right. His idea was to overpower and subjugate (starve) the people of Europe and Russia, slavs who he deemed inferior, and open their land for Germany. He considered the racial struggle to be a Law of Nature. Homo sapiens can survive only by unrestrained racial killing. In his mind Jews threatened the Law of Nature because “a Jewish triumph of reason over impulse would mean the end of the species.” It’s a strange way of thinking but the gist is that to save the species the Jews had to be removed from the general population. I expect you know this from reading Mein Kampf.
As he took WWII eastward and into Russia, states and institutions in his path were destroyed and people’s rights and protections vanished. That is where the killing of Jews began and most of it happened. To ingratiate themselves with their conquerors, to survive, local populations participated in the killing. Timothy Snyder asserts “Auschwitz has also become the standard shorthand of the Holocaust because, when treated in a certain mythical and reductive way, it seems to separate the mass murder of Jews from human choices and actions.” And “When the mass murder of Jews is limited to an exceptional place and treated as the result of impersonal procedures, then we need not confront the fact that people not very different from us murdered other people not very different from us at close quarters.”
In a YouTube interview discussing his book “Breaking the Spell”, Kollerstrom quibbles over details about Auschwitz and gas chambers to conclude that there was no Holocaust. He seems to gloss over or ignore so much information about what occurred, by focusing only on Auschwitz and gas chambers. It seems to me that quibbling about such details detracts from the horrible tragedy of WWII. He seems to pick and choose the information that he needs to come to his conclusions. From a quick internet search I found that separately both Tom Secker and Nick Kollerstrom wrote on their investigation of the 7/7 train bombing in Britain, that question the official reports by the authorities. Apparently Nick Kollerstrom asserts that the CCTV still of the alleged bombers at Luton station was fake, when in fact it was supported by moving video evidence. Also it’s easy to find critiques of Kollerstrom’s arguments that the gas chambers didn’t exist. http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/skeptic-magazine/skeptic-12.html His practice of cherry picking or dismissing evidence in order to arrive at the conclusions he wants, is enough for me to conclude that Kollerstrom is not a reliable source of information or thinking on the subject.
Larry – I think it is good you delve into ‘history’ as it relates to yourself and not just ‘personal’ history in the narrow kind of ‘therapy’ meaning. I think both are important. For myself I am struck more and more how this kind of cultural background has a big bearing and influence on the way we think and feel. To try to be just objective about things for example here Gretchen and Daniel who are Jewish seems to be just a bit MORE upset that say someone who is not. In my own case the Irish were ‘outside’ a lot of the mayhem involved in both World Wars and I think I mentioned before when my Dad would talk to my brother and myself about WW2 he seemed to have quite a neutral stance on it even maybe a sneaking liking for the German side. And why would he not? The English were our historic persecutors and this to him was not such a distant memory. The Famine which I now do understand more was in many ways a deliberate policy of the English or at least with their crazy beliefs about the ‘workings of the market’ they were totally ‘unfeeling’ about little matters like starvation and being thrown out of the simple homes the Irish were living in.
Anyway not to just then ‘take one’s own side’ in history but it a factor and when trying to determine the ‘truth’ it is worth keeping in mind. Like I was reading something again recently about the Irish Famine and the sheer degradation and destuction of so much and those memories are real and are carried on into future generations (mine) And while in England this Summer my brother told me he went to one of the Rothchild’s mansions and he showed me the brochures etc about it. This was built in the middle 1800’s around the same time as the Famine and my God the two worlds could not be more different. And at the same time the two worlds were connected, it was the exploitation of the Irish and not only them of course that made the ‘wealth’ of the Rotchilds and their ilk in England possible. So I consider it part of me coming to terms with things to understand and delve into stuff like this. And it is hard for me to feel ‘sorry’ for the likes of the Rothchilds who co-incidentally or not were a huge factor in fomenting a lot of these world wars. So now maybe like my Dad I started to have a sneaking liking for the German side but reading more about it I conclude really to put it maybe a bit simply and naively the ‘bad guys’ started and won WW2 same as WW1. English propoganda and Jewish well propoganda also are devious and very clever and about all have the ability to ‘fool’ that of course is the purpose of ‘propoganda’ and the Irish were putty in their hands. So I push back on that.
So following Guru’s image on the 10,000 apples and their being a few ‘bad apples’ like me contaminating the cart…………there might be another way of looking at this. 10,000 GMO shiny pumped up with artificial fertilizers etc versus a few bad looking but real and true apples. The GMO’s might look better but I think the other ones are better for you in the long run. Your version of history there Larry I see as a bit twisted and ‘polished’ like a shine GMO apple the ‘real’ story is not like you say imo………………but I see and appreciate you really do search for the truth. That is a very good quality it’s just well maybe put down that shiny good LOOKING apple and pick up the one without so called ‘credibility’. One thing I imagine we might agree on the ‘standard version of history’ is not working out so well for us after all it has brought us to where we are now. Can we honestly say that is a good place? A world of constant wars and environmental catastrophes, weather manipulation and cars that drive themselves some people feel we are entering the “End Times” I am not inclined to that kind of ‘religous’ apcolapyse thinking but it does make me wonder……….
Sorry ‘starving over’ should be ‘starting over’ (Freudian slip?) and going back a step earlier the ‘stories’ of Jews being made into soap and lampshades………….that ALSO has been ‘abandoned’ most all of it should be abandoned, if someone is caught lying over and over when exactly do you stop believing him…………….
You carry a grudge against the British, the Jews, and the US.
For centuries over and over my ancestors lives were shattered by German and by Russian power that invaded and tore apart their communities and their lives. In 1929 the Soviet collectivisation of farms in the Ukraine led to mass starvation in the rural communities. It was essentially a decree to put the Ukrainian rural population to death by starvation. Even the Poles and the Ukrainians at different times in history attacked and occupied each other<s territories.
When they started new lives on the Canadian prairies the Ukrainian, Polish and German settlers hated and mistrusted each other but they had to find ways to get along to make their communities of mixed ethnicities successful in the new world. I grew up afraid of or even hating Nazis and Russian and Chinese communists and Indians. But these days I don<t have a grudge against any of them. I just try to understand political and cultural forces that propelled people and history, and I wonder, had I lived in those times, in some situations could I just as easily have been the oppressor. In some ways I am an oppressor in that I enjoy a good life in a land taken from the people who originally lived here and whose ancestors suffer today as a result of their displacement and the destruction of their way of life and their sense of self worth.
What I<m saying is that people change and grow over time, or at least many do and not many of us can say that we haven<t oppressed anyone somehow. Are you going to carry your grudges to your grave^
Larry – that’s interesting what you say about what the Soviets did to the Ukraine etc that is also very much my understanding of what went on. And if you think about it isn’t it quite ironic that those same Soviets were our great ally in WW2 and the Germans were the great ‘enemy’. What I have read about the German and Russian war the standards of the Germans were so much higher than the Soviets they actually respected and took seriously rules about how to treat prisoners of war and so on. The Soviets had no regard for those. I also agree very much with what you say about what happened to the Native people who lived in Canada (and the US)
About holding ‘grudges’ I think you misunderstand me there quite a bit. It is not so much a matter of grudges it is a matter in my mind at least of coming to an understanding as best as I can about things including ‘history’ Sometimes that can leave me with a quite ‘commited’ view about some things does not mean they are ‘grudges’ at all. At least I don’t see it like that. To pursue that kind of thinking any ‘commited’ idea or belief becomes a ‘grudge’
And
Another unanswered question. WHY were Jews, Gypsy’s, Gays and the the mentally retarded rounded up, and put in concentration camps?. I doubt you’ll bother to answer. Though it was made very clear in Hitler’s book you claim to have read.
Jack.
Do you seriously expect me to get in a ‘debate’ with you about details of history. Whatever I say like I dunno ‘the sun is up’ you would dispute and fight forever and ever to prove ‘no the sun is actually down’ So I know you like the attention but I will have to pass but just say you are wrong on just about anything you mention here.. And I don’t just ‘claim’ to have read Hitler’s book I have actually read it. Now I expect some nattering about ‘not being able to read’ I know you dude and all your little poisonous and predictable ‘moves’. Playing what you think are your ‘greatest hits’ over and over and over nothing new ever………………
Patrick:- How about answering my question first and then you can slam me all you like.
You love asking question BUT seemingly refuse (conveniently) to answer them.
So!!!! AGAIN Why did Hitler, from your reading of his book; decide to send Jews, Gypsy, Gays and the mentally retarded into concentration camps????
Jack
This is just getting worse and worse. I wonder if the whole thing stems from anger towards the PI, Janov, and primal therapy in general. Otherwise, what’s the importance of venting about the holocaust here?
Phil
Patrick: Ha ha! we finally got a feeling out of you, Quote:- “I am just really pissed off ……” Now if you could only OWN it … instead of blaming it. then you’d be making progress.
One other point you make in this long long tirade is that there there were 20 suicides. People that are suicidal are people desperate for help and some of them read the Primal literature and came for help. When it did not happen they way they hoped it would happen they continued their quest for an “out” and resorted to the one they’d already been contemplating … suicide. Primal Therapy DID NOT DRIVE THEM TO SUICIDE.
But then twisting things (often called “spinning”) is another of your talents.. You lost it the moment, according to your own account, you said OR thought, to your first week therapist, “What’s the point”. You need a cognitive (left side lobe) reason for everything, seemingly. The man you took to quoting, Jon Rappoport. questioned the psychological profession’s sense of the consciousness was referring to the orthodox thinking of Pavlov/Skinner behaviorism OR Freudian cognitive consciousness. Janov’s discovered the whole other half … that had been hidden for eons. In that sense Janov might agree, with Jon Rappoport on that one point
Janov wasn’t the first to go there … Danny Wilson was the first … screaming his head off, to not go there, but when it happened anyway … proclaimed afterwards, “I’ve done it … I don’t know what … but I can feel”. You refused to go there asking ” what’s the point’. Therein you lost your time, and energy coming to The Primal Institute and plonking down all that money.
I could well be wrong, but I suspect you are still angry that you did not get it. Why else would you still cling to this blog, knowing that you are a lone wolf, desperate to prove you were/are right all along. Meantime, according to many, being nothing short of offensive.
Jack
Deleting offensive comments is apparently working for all those, and seemingly there are many, that find your comments offensive. If you wish to join the few that are questioning the Nazi holocaust, you could even report it, on this blog, WITHOUT being offensive. You come across as very bitter to me … least-ways, in expressing it.
If the Nazi concentration camps were not a means of eliminating, Jews, Gypsys, Gays and the mentally retarded; then why put all these people in concentration camps anyway? Maybe you’ll even find reasons to BELIEVE the concentration camps didn’t exist either. So far you’ve not suggested that, as far as I know. Maybe Ireland is just a figment of your imagination and is actually just another peninsular of Germany????
Discussing what is TRUTH and/or FALSE is something I got into in my book that you said you read. For example:- I am not sure that Stephen Hawking’s “Big Bang” theory is correct. Here’s my reasoning on that matter :- There are very few universal ‘shapes out there (in the universe). Three in fact. The first is the circle or eclipse, the second is the sphere and the third is the spiral. I don’t see ‘out there’, any straight lines. That, I contend is a human concept created for our own convenience to denote beginnings and endings.. Time is another; Who’s to suggest that time is linear???? Maybe it goes in circles or perhaps even spirals. Maybe we’ve been here before. Maybe the universe always existed.. It’s a thought.(head trip, if you like)
Stephen Hawking’s PhD ‘Big Bang’ thesis is based entirely on two concepts. The first is that other human creation “Mathematics” the other is;- extrapolating backwards from the principle of an expanding universe (the Doppler effect). He, Stephen Hawking, had the humility is the opening chapter of his book “A Brief History of Time” Whereby a little old lady questioning Bertrand Russel’s lecture on a spherical planet earth. To which Bertrand Russel asked; “if the world is flat … what’s it standing on” … to which she replied “the back of a turtle”. Bertrand Russel then asked “what’s the turtle standing on?” She replied:- “Oh you are so cleaver young man … well! it’s turtles all the way down. Steven Hawking then suggests “Who’s to deny that the little old lady is wrong?????”
I suspect Margaret’s pussy cats don’t give a damn about any of this … perhaps others as well!!!.
Jack
Patrick: If you want to go ahead and deny that 50 million people worldwide have been killed in automobile traffic since WWII, you would have my full blessings and I would feel happy to finally have some attention paid to the matter.
Yes, I’m not kidding. I would actually feel good if you denied it. I would give you a hug and say, “Thank you for denying this, Patrick. At least some human bioelectrical impulses were directed towards the matter.” You would still have that hug forthcoming from me even though I believe it was an eight-figure problem for me.
Guru, it seems insane that 38,000 people lose their lives in car accidents each year in the U.S. leaving families so broken.
I don’t know the answer but it makes me want to put the speed limit down to 35 mph.
Sylvia, driverless cars will probably solve most of the problem eventually. How do the people who have already been afflicted recover before this miracle solution arrives? It’s too big of a problem for me to think about anymore and I can only approach it from a standpoint of a lone selfish individual.
Drivers lack of focus is the main cause of car crashes.
Welcome back Guru, it is always nice to hear from you speaking for myself at least. And thanks even for the notion of giving me a hug for no matter what crazy reasons I don’t get so much of that here lol.
Cars for sure are very destructive and in your case in quite a terrible way. I do not see Phil’s ‘solution’ as being anything of the sort but going deeper in the rabbit hole of nightmare technologies. There was a shocking case in the US this Spring where the self driving car ‘saw’ a white tractor trailer as the ‘white sky’ (another subject there) and the space under the trailer as if going under a bridge so the car speeded up and plunged under the truck and the ‘driver’ or is it the ‘passenger’ died. Meanwhile he was watching I think a Harry Potter video flying along at about 60 miles an hour. Literally what a mad world we are creating…………
Patrick: Thank you & I wasn’t really complaining about my lot in life when I posted the other day. In fact, I do have a lot to be thankful for in that I still grew up in an upper-middle class household in a relatively stable & peaceful country even without my mother’s help. This did buy me plenty of time to actively search around and to try to figure out exactly what was wrong with my life, leading me to understand some highly abstract (yet still very serious) problems which would have been impossible for me to figure out had I grown up in war-torn Aleppo, for instance.
I know about that Tesla crash that happened in May. It was a lone 40 year-old “driver” and it happened either in Florida or Ohio; I don’t remember. Driverless cars aren’t going to be perfected for a long while. I was simply saying we are obviously heading in that direction and all those wounded beforehand will be shoved out of mainstream consciousness to make way for the new generation of travelers. I’ve accepted this as the way it is.
Where the Jewish WW2 casualties are concerned, I was trying to convey that any publicity is better than no publicity at all even when it’s negative. Negative press sells more copies of anything rather than no press at all because some people become intrigued by the excoriated idea, regardless.
OK, goodbye for now.
PS. Hi Margaret
The difficulties with this type of denial, Guru, is that it comes with a certain type of hate that proved deadly throughout the years. It isn’t your regular all-publicity-is-good-as-long-as-they-spell-my-name-correctly, because it incites hatred toward Jews who historically suffered a great deal from such hatred, and because eventually that hatred turned into the greatest crime of the 20th century. It happened right in the heart of Europe, carried out by one of the most cultured, intelligent and educated people around, and so influenced world view and political realities in the western hemisphere to a large degree.
It is the drivers lack of focus that causes 99.999% of car crashes.
Anonymous: Sure, you could say that. Also, a momentary lack of focus causes me to spill coffee once in a while. Almost meaningless consequence there, but a lack of focus in an automobile can mean death or permanent disability.
How did the stakes become so high?
Why does our economy demand that the stakes be so high on a daily basis?
How is it that people complaining of being prevented ‘free speech’ never shut their yapper? Scroll back a couple of years, Patrick, does it look like any of your preoccupations and ruminations, abominable or offensive or ludicrous as they might have seen and been to the rest of us here, were prevented from being published? Your ideas of PI presumed suicides, Jewish holocaust and Jewish-everything-else, were heard loud and clear, again and again. And again once more.
As you seem not to know, Gretchen, who for a very long time was very liberal with your comments, is using her editorial right (and in my opinion in this case – her editorial duty) just like any other publisher, including I’m sure some of your favorites.
And by the way, Liberalism, which I think this blog is espousing to, isn’t absolute and rampant pluralism but a concept that holds, cherishes – and yes, if need be dictates – values. You not only ceased to respect those values but seriously and persistently breached them.
In a sense, yes a very strange sense, Daniel, one could say Patrick has been a very loyal person for two years by reifying the WW2 casualties into a state of modern awareness here on the blog even if through a series of nasty denials.
If Patrick spent two years showing YouTube videos of muscle cars and Indy 500 races glorifying stunt driving along with denying any casualties as a result of such activities, a part of me would feel bemused and thankful for his loyally calling attention to the topic so much in the first place.
So! Guru: What’s the solution? I doubt that Sylvia’s solution would eliminate all road deaths..
My feeling is we humans are heading towards out own extinction. I’d like to hope I am wrong … always a possibility
Jack
Uber is already doing a live test of self driving cars in Pittsburgh. The federal government recently issued some guidelines about these cars. I think they might come into widespread use faster than expected, saving a lot of lives. Someone will be making
a lot of money on this new technology, which is a strong motivating factor driving
their development. I wonder if they will brake for small animals.
Phil: My feeling is:- that the self driving car is a long way for being implemented universally, for the very reason that not everyone is going to trade in the old car for a self driving one. Who then buys the one traded in?
We are for ever getting involved in technology that I feel will eventually drive many of us crazy …. least-ways crazier than we already are. It is already indicative of all the remote devices that save getting up off our arses (asses) to even switch on the TV, and buttons on car windows to roll them up or down. Sooooooo!!! to make up for the normal energy required to do anything we now have Gyms to work off that surplus energy that on(ce upon a time), we did naturally.
I’m tempted to call it:- ‘technology up our own arse (ass) holes’.
There is a discipline out there called economics. I defined “economics” as the study of money flow. Now we’ve shifted it to mean controlling the money flow. We could abolish that discipline very easily. I guess I needn’t continue on since most will see where I am going with it.
Jack
Jack,
Young people are moving to cities and are less interested in car ownership, The first use of autonomous cars is expected to be large fleets operating in cities. Maybe in the future few people will own cars and we will simply share a network of public self driving cars.
There is likely to be a tremendous improvement in safety and fuel efficiency, with less time stuck in traffic. There is always resistance to new technologies. You seem to enjoy computers and internet blogging where instant responses are possible and yet rail against modern technologies.
Phil
Phil: You are quite right; I was one of the first to indulge in technology and brought Patrick and Gentle Giant into the the then 20th century, first lending them a computer then encouraging them to computerized the office. BUT that is not to say that I don’t feel I see where all this is going. and strangely, not in hindsight.
It was the same for me as a hippy going to Ibiza and renting a remote farm house on top of of hill for ten years, yet realizing at the time that I was a part of encouraging the destruction of the place with tourists and tourism. Equally, I feel we humans are the craziest creatures on the planet and not the most intelligent and yet actually like my intelligence. I tell Patrick he’s into his head and there has been no-one more into his head than me. It’s a sort of irony or paradox; not sure which, probably both. that I/we are such a contradiction.
Equally the folly to search for other ‘intelligent crack pots’ on other planets and yet no-one was more into astronomy then me at school. I loved school and yet insist that schools are prisons for children. I am a major part of the very destruction of the planet I love. To quote Oscar Wilde “We each one kill the the one we love ……..”, in The Ballad of Reading Jail.
It’s the complaining that I wish so dearly to totally stop and yet am not able to. I was a compulsive sex addict and yet knew it was a crazy addiction. I make a new years resolution every year to be more feeling-full and less into my head. Not even sure I accomplish any of it
Finally: I’m such a ‘smarty pants’ but am unable to stop it. I have succeeded in some aspects. I love life, I love my Jimbo and yet still complain about him out of earshot. I love clear blue skies and sunshine, and know I should not sit too long in it … yet do. I know I am crazy, but have succeeded in not trying to prove it to others … I think ……
Why do I try for perfection knowing it actually doesn’t exist?????? I don’t know. Yep! I actually do not know.
Jack
So good to see you in here Guru and thanks for the upbeat point of view. However, I think your analogy isn’t accurate enough.
A correct analogy, in my opinion, would be if someone kept saying over and over again that automobile deaths not only never occur but that people who claim they do are liars who perpetuate their lies in order to shake down the public and the insurance companies and hide their own exploitation of, death mongering and evil intentions toward others, with the end game of controlling the world.
Daniel: I thank you for the welcome and if I was accused of what you explained it would simply leave me giggling a lot. In a certain way I would actually take all that as a compliment because it would portray me as being someone much more powerful than I ever thought I could be.
At first it did giggle, but eventually it got to me. In a way it recapitulated how I got interested in the subject and how I became touched with it in the first place. As a child, when all these survivors were around me, me and my friends did giggle quite a lot, had jokes about it and didn’t feel like it’s ours. My first major reaction was when I was 17 and saw this documentary with all that horrible footage – I rushed outside and threw up.
Then, some 7 or 8 years later I came to LA for therapy. It was there that it gradually ‘grew’ on me, in hindsight because I had to face who my mother was in her relation to me, and deep, secret, mysterious and sad and at times neglectful fear that she carried around with her and silently transmitted to me.
Also, one of my roommates in LA was a Brazilian guy of German origin. He was a very nice guy which I liked a lot and one day we got to talk about Hitler when he said that his parents have told him that at the beginning Hitler did good – which for sure he pretty much did. But of course I couldn’t help thinking how his parents got to Brazil, and where were they and what were they doing during the war, a habit I picked from an old artist I met when I was living for a few months in Berlin during the early 1980’s: he used to ask older people what were they doing during the Nazi regime. One time He pointed at this elderly lady who was sitting in the same cafe we were in telling me, “this one had a secure and important governmental job, she was going into apartment buildings making sure no Jews were working there gardening or cleaning, and especially that no one was consorting with them or God forbid having a man-woman relationship with them, contaminating the Arian bloodstream”.
Around that time in LA I became drawn to watching documentaries which aired, if I remember correctly, mostly on A&E, and by then I began to be deeply touched by them. Gradually I felt more and more related to it all, more and more curious about it.
I don’t want to be too long, so I’ll just end by saying that the pieces of information I learned, even the personal details, were just a small part of it. In hindsight, therapy and the internal process it started were crucial: I could have of course found all the information myself but without therapy I couldn’t have found myself.
Well Daniel in a way I know what you mean and have had that attitude myself to people who complain about the lack of ‘free speech’ or in another way the manner that celebrities complain about too much exposure while owing all the money they make to that very exposure. Still right now I AM being ‘censored’ by Gretchen you may or may not know how much it depends on how ‘quick on the draw’ Gretchen is. She can whip things out of there pretty fast. And to repeat I consider this a real ‘insult’ and actually a real dimuntion of the blog. Like I think guys like this 108morris108 is REALLY worth listening to on many many subjects not only on the ‘holocaust’ at all. See an example below if that does not get deleted. This has relevance to me I was hit by a car about 6 years ago and have some titanium in my shoulder anyway recently and around the time I arrived in Ireland in July the shoulder started to get more and more painful and noticeable, it started to worry me quite a bit. Anyway my brother and I located this well with spring water coming out of the ground and now after about 8 weeks of this no pain amazing how good it feels by comparison. And I put it down to that spring water it’s no wonder the ancient Irish worshipped wells and considered them religous sites. To me they are and should be
I’m glad your shoulder feels better and I hope it will remain so. It’s good that you’ve found a natural way to treat it – and I agree, natural, clean spring water can be wonderful. It’s no wonder practitioners used to send their patients to these springs as treatment all during the 19th century. All those places with the German name beginning with Bad _______ are testament to this. Who knows, maybe one of these days they’ll be back in fashion.
Regarding Gretchen’s editorial policies – you’ve been warned several times and she specifically asked you, for example, not to post certain videos. And she did that by asking, without active editing. But you wouldn’t listen. Also, perhaps by now you can’t feel anymore how hurtful and outrageous your words were – not just unorthodox but truly hateful. I’m not sure one could accurately describe the boundary between being provocative and unorthodox on the one hand, which was acceptable, and what has crossed that boundary into the dark land of the unacceptable. Like pornography, even without defining it accurately you know when you come across it.
I think that if you’re in touch with how troubling some of your ideas are to others you’d be aware that there might be a price to be paid and wouldn’t be so surprised and outraged. In any case, your right for free speech isn’t violated and you can write and publish your thoughts – it’s just that in Gretchen’s editorial capacity, strengthened by our requests, not on this specific blog.
I wonder if Patrick has no one else to talk to, so he posts his views here.
Christopher, you do know that all of your posts are responding to what people said three years ago? Given all of the eventful things that have happened since then, it seems like ten lifetimes ago.
Christopher: I have done several Skypes with Patrick since he went back to live in Ireland and I felt he was where he felt he ought to be … but he still has a lot of regrets about this therapy and feels cheated.
Yes, I do feel he unwittingly took it out of me first and then later Gretchen. I understand he is still able to read the blog but is not able to respond anymore. AND I feel that frustrates him somewhat.
I have not idea who you are or if I met you at one of the retreats and perhaps you might have been one of those people that objected to some of the ways I behaved there.
Jack
I made use of my traveling primal box again today.
I cried some more about visiting my mother with my father. This time the focus
was more on him. “Make her get better” was the sad feeling and also “what about
me”. Because we go to visit her but my father was seemingly unaware of my tremendous grief, sadness, and suffering. He just wasn’t seeing it that I could tell.
I’ve been spending a lot of energy on improving my Spanish. I believe it’s already making a difference and if I can keep at it I may get it where I’d like.. I even practiced a little with my Spanish speaking co-workers. today.
It probably represents a distraction as well, but at least towards a useful end.
The key probably will be whether I can maintain enthusiasm for this project.
Phil
Yes, having a passion for it and sticking to it through the grind and setbacks seems to be the difference between those who are successful at something and those who aren’t.
Phil, great that you’re making headway with the Spanish. I try to go with whatever inspires me for however long the inspiration lasts and let that be my compass as much as possible. Sometimes it burns up pretty quickly, other times it carries me a long way. The Meetup group you’re in, can hopefully be successful in helping keeping the flame alive.
David,
I have many times intended to work diligently at Spanish but it was often the case through the years that my wife, unintentionally, has discouraged me. She is a native speaker and a high school Spanish teacher but unfortunately not a good teacher for me.
What I have felt were excess corrections have ended up being a big discouraging factor.
I still try to practice with her and hope to avoid that problem or better tolerate the corrections. My Meetup group now has 48 members, and although, so far, fewer than 5 show up for meetings, that does show the level of interest. I only really need one person who speaks better than me for practice. It’s helpful that I now have multiple ways I’m working to improve my skills with the language.
Phil
Not only will there be self-driving cars in the future, but PT will have been generally accepted as a daily ritual by the entire populace of the earth, and the energy that is produced by millions of tears and screams and moans will be channeled into powering the self-driving cars.
Otto:- Lets’s hope your crystal ball has some validity. 🙂 🙂 .
Jack
They won’t brake for small animals, more likely just for garage sales.
I spent a lot of time in my garage in my teen years, listening and repeating to 45’s on my rusty old 1950’s stereo, conjugating in the classroom, and I never really learned Spanish at all. Of course it never helped that there were very few spanish speakers to speak with, and i was too shy to do that anyways. whats the point? none, just waiting for the commericals to finish.
> boy, my kitchen and bathroom are such a mess!! all the furniture upside down and full of toolboxes and other material, the nice old stone sink entirely disappeared, the floor has been opened up and is not entirely closed again as they put the pipes in there. dust and filth all over, and only a bit of water available at a small tab just an inch or so above the floor.
> thank god the toilet is working, but so far the rest looks as if a hurricane passed through.
> it was stressful to also watch out for the cats, did manage to keep them in the other rooms, but at some point I discovered also in the bedroom they had already removed some wood from the floor in one corner.
> luckily the cats did not get into the large entrance there to the void between my floor and the ceiling from below, that would have been a disaster.
> i managed to put some boxes and baskets on top of the hole just before the cats ventured over there, and will be even more vigilant from now on about stuff like that. not only for the cats, I could also break a leg in that kind of thing.
> tomorrow morning they will be back, hope they leave it more or less in working order in the kitchen, and let’s see if they bring a nice new sink!!!
> will miss the old soapstone one, but of course I do need a sink!!!
> the plan was they would do the rest of the place on thursday and friday, but iI get the impression they want to keep going on with it, but the plan was definitely thursday and friday as then a girlfriend would come over to give me a hand with controlling the cats and the rest..
> she did agree with the workers, so I guess I will have to stand my ground. after the kitchen is finished that is.
> no heating as well now, hardly any water, certainly no hot water, and loads of dust and rubbish and disorder.
> put some shut doors in two of the three cat doors, and a litter box inside, sigh, and have some cat candy for consolation at hand.
> my brother promised me to come by tomorrow afternoon, although he had not planned coming over this weekend. i told him it was not necessary but also that it would be very nice. also warned him about the chaos and the dirt.
> to be continued..
> M
Margaret,
Work being done in your home can be very stressful. I remember when our kitchen was being remodeled and I had to wash dishes in the bath tub. The project took many more months than expected as the contractor had other jobs going on. The end result was good but I did not at all appreciate the process.
Phil
Coches sin conductor serán una mejora en la vida de las personas de raza blanca. La gente negra probable que sea necesario para conducir con los blancos para estar seguro.
Fui al médico hoy y mencionó que yo tenía una picazón en mi entrepierna. dijo tire hacia abajo los pantalones y todavía me siento violado. no le diga el señor Larry porque no le gusta tener demasiada información. Me encanta este Inglés al español traductor!
Oh I see. That’s where TMI is coming from.
pero obviouslyamente el traductor no sabe el question markio that se putio in fronte del sentencio, cuando you putio un question markio at el endio of the sentencio.
Que bueno Otto, tu eres bilingüe!
The accident with the Tesla car was the driver’s fault. Tesla has sold cars with self driving features but the driver is supposed to be paying attention as the cars aren’t ready to fully drive on their own. A maybe questionable strategy by the Tesla company to introduce the technology in this way. Other companies are doing more rigorous testing before releasing anything.
There seems to be a general consensus that the roll out of self driving vehicles will begin in 5 to 10 years Many car accidents are caused by human error and irrational driving behavior. Autonomous cars, when perfected, will still have accidents, but at a much lower rate.
This technology is definitely coming and large industries will probably change and many people, such as taxis and truck drivers, will become unemployed. There is a lot of information on the internet about all of this, that I find interesting.
Phil
Phil – yes and they have ‘apps’ now I dunno to know your way home from the coffee shop in the morning in case you forget or have Alzheimer’s or whatever. It seems people become more and more like machines and machines become more and more like humans. I imagine they are working on something like where we can get GPS directly into our brains or something. Does not seem like an appealing future to me at all. Just because it is ‘progress’ does not mean it is progress so to speak. I think the myth of progress is a big one it seems we are basically going backwards. Also it seems being around all these devices probably GIVES a person Alzheimer’s so lo and behold the same devices can HELP with Alzheimer’s…………….’progress’ I suppose
Patrick,
I’ve usually been late getting on board with new technologies. I got my first cell phone within the last 5 years, but now use it all the time. Late getting a home computer too. I can certainly live fine without a lot of it.
Another predicted thing is more widespread use of drones for business and consumers.. And what will happen when all our enemies can use drones against us?
We will need good anti-drone technologies, I suppose.
Phil
> Phil, slept poorly last night, and the first half of today was very stressful with loud drilling etc. going on, in the end I managed to lock up the two cats in the living room which helped me to stress just a little less, but still, everything full of copper pipes and other tricky stuff for me to trip on, and filth all over, and noise and uncertainty about where it is going. in the front part of the apartment which faces north it was pretty cold as well, in the back where they were working it was warm and summery…
>
> but finally things for the moment worked out kind of peacefully.
> have just been cleaning up for a few hours, and although I still have no regular water source, just the tiny tap down on a wall, and no heating, no hot water, things are partly back in place until monday, and all the materials more or less grouped together.
> the nicest thing is they gave me an electrical heater for the time being, which will be very welcome in the evening and morning and all day long next week when the weather will be changing.
> the not so good thing is that it still is a lot of work to be done, and they told me for the last couple of days it would be better not to have the cats around as they will have to work everywhere at once.
> so we will have to move to one of the not so keen guest houses, friend or sister, will see, they seem both out of communication this weekend.
> and then the last catch is that when it is all done, they still can’t switch it on before an official inspector has come and given his ok, which can take several days before they come after they are warned…
>
> so probably another ten days or so at least camping with just a bucket of cold water and the electric water cooker to make it not so bad..
> will have to figure out how to connect the washing machine with the little tap, I think it is possible, but will double check with my brother. then I can do some laundry and then change it back to just water supply…
>
> so far all is not too bad, a lot of stress but I feel I did cope well with a difficult situation.
> now of course moving the cats will be another stressful adventure, maybe just maybe we can stay here, but the poor cats will have to endure loud drilling in that case and Russian speaking all over, strange men everywhere..
> and the furniture all moved around as well.
> don’t know if it will be feasible to stay here, my worst fear is the cats getting under the floor and then being too scared to come out of their hiding place under that same floor but in the far corner from the room for example…
> it is also hard to keep track of where they hide even when knowing in which room they should be, they are very good in becoming invisible..
> oh well, will see how things develop..
> one day at a time, and then one moment at a time.
> am coping with all of this without any painkillers in the house, ha, so if I can do that, I should be able to go without in nice peaceful times as well, smiley!
> M
Guru, Welcome back to the blog but I have to say I don’t think it is true that you would be bemused should Patrick show the rest of us you tube videos of stunt drivers while denying that automobiles had caused any number of casualties. Nor do I think you would be thankful for even false or negative publicity. I don’t think that is the truth. What is the implication? That someone impacted by the Holocaust should be celebrating the dishonesty of a guy like Kollerstrom? Really? Gretchen
Oh brother, OK, uhmm….Do you remember when I once said that perhaps 10,000 books have already been published on the Jewish experience during World War II? Jim Kunstler (who happens to be Jewish himself) provided this number. Not to mention countless museums and other documentaries and films?
Do you also remember when I mentioned that only 3 (yes three) books have covered the tens of millions of automobile fatalities since WW2 (never mind no museums or films or documentaries)? The reason I would celebrate Patrick’s denials of my experiences is simply that there has been such a desolate poverty of any information whatsoever, that even vicious denials represent a welcome relief from pure nothingness….a reification into the very fabric of existence, if you will.
Granted, with help from guys like Werner Herzog and Google’s attention to self-driving cars, this horrible lack of sound information for those afflicted is slowly changing.
Think of each book as an apple. If I have an apple cart with 10,000 obedient apples (verifying the WW2 Jewish experiences) and a few bad apples (denying those experiences), that’s still enormously better than trying to score your first dozen apples to begin with in the case of traffic collisions, is it not?.
Guru: I could well be wrong, but I get a sense that somehow you are angry/bitter that there is not more written about traffic fatalities. I suspect it is because of your own child-hood trauma on the matter.
I am not sure that more books focusing on traffic fatalities or even more discussion, would help your (therapy) case.
As I said I may well be wrong … but I would rather hear from you how it affected the baby …… USG. I feel that would be more informative to the rest of us on the blog, and be more helpful in terms of your therapy.
I repeat … this is just my thought on the matter. I’d like to here more a bout how in baby-hood it affected you. Without a doubt to lose ones mother in childhood has got to be enormously traumatic.
Jack
Jack: My thoughts are that you had no business interrupting a conversation between Gretchen and myself. It only serves as a needless distraction from the core issues we were trying to discuss.
Geese Man: you are coming across as so, so, so touchy.
Who’s doling the rights, OR the dismissal of right on this blog. It happens all the time. We each of us respond as the mood/inspiration takes us. Yeah?????????????
Jack
Guru: I could well be wrong, but I get a sense that somehow you are angry/bitter that there is not more written about traffic fatalities. I suspect it is because of your own child-hood trauma on the matter. I am not sure that more books focusing on traffic fatalities or even more discussion, would help your (therapy) case. As I said I may well be wrong … but I would rather hear from you how it affected the baby …… USG. I feel that would be more informative to the rest of us on the blog, and be more helpful in terms of your therapy. I repeat … this is just my thought on the matter. I’d like to here more a bout how in baby-hood it affected you. Without a doubt to lose ones mother in childhood has got to be enormously traumatic. Jack
WordPress.com THE Ultimate Superstar Guru commented: “Oh brother, OK, uhmm….Do you remember when I once said that perhaps 10,000 books have already been published on the Jewish experience during World War II? Jim Kunstler (who happens to be Jewish himself) provided this number. Not to mention countless m” | |
Sorry folks …didn’t mean to repeat the post. It’s just my lap-top is having some sort of fit and telling me the post was not sent.
Gretchen: I am going to ask a favor of you and discontinue this “10,000 books” conversation right now. Just don’t bother replying to my post. I would like this to end right here, thank you.
I was hoping for a reasonably straightforward conversation, but I can see that creatures with serious, intractable mental illnesses are going to try to make this a messy affair. Maybe another time!
Quote:- “I was hoping for a reasonably straightforward conversation, but I can see that creatures with serious, intractable mental illnesses ………….”
If indeed Guru you were hoping for a Private conversation … as opposed to commenting on a PUBLIC blog, then I suggest that you do it through ‘private email’ to Gretchen or the Institute.
I also see from this post of yours that you are now applying Patrick type tactics like attempting to insult. I grant that I am a creature, AND that I may well have an intractable mental illness/es.
However, in the nature of psychology, a la Freud, there is a chance that your comments and words carry a deeper meaning/feeling subliminally. It might be a good idea to investigate them.
Since this is a PUBLIC blog … anyone is liable to jump in at any time over anything said on it. If you were to bear that in mind I feel it could help your discourse both here and privately.
Jack
This whole matter of what is the “truth and what is ‘lies’ is tentative; as to almost reach the point of absurdity Patrick’s version of ‘truth and/or lies’, is something I am very skeptical of, since it seems that he has some axe to grind that is way, way too subliminal even for himself to fathom, so he dwells on the outside facors.
There is one area that get to me (for whatever my personal biases might be), and that is the seeming lying that takes place with the police; especially in the area of police shootings and in particular black men. My opinion on the mater (and it IS only my opinion) is that the police mind-set is such that there are bad guys and good guys. They see themselves as the good guys, and it would seem that any one of color is automatically seen as a bad guy. I gather there are many in the US that even see Barack Obama as a bad guy.
It is seen by those in power (legislator, by definition), are good guys. Dwelling on the good and bad nations is not fruitful for ones overall health as I see it. I do acknowledge much of what Patrick states about The British is on point. and feel (as Karl Marx noted) that most revolution merely replace that, that was revolted against.
I contend that until such times as there is a total radical change from the way we humans are currently behaving, we are into our own demise. AND … I am part of the problem. It is just this one aspect of human neurosis:- the proclivity to “DEFEND”, mainly our ego. We seem to be able to see quite clearly the foibles of the other guy. It’s ourselves that we seemingly are so blind to. To quote my idol WS “It is not in our stars dear Brutus, but in ourselves that we are underlings”.
Jack
I posted this comment some couple of hours ago; meantime see the last of Patrick’s comments was deleted and it appears mine with it. Gretchen:- should you feel this response of mine is also inappropriate … go ahead and delete it once again.
This whole matter of what is the “truth and what is ‘lies’ is never definitive; as to almost reach the point of absurdity. Patrick’s version of ‘truth and/or lies’, is something I am very skeptical of, since it seems that he has some ‘axe to grind’, that is way, way too subliminal even for himself to fathom, so he dwells on outside factors.
There is one area that gets to me (for whatever my personal biases might be), and that is the seeming lying that takes place with the police; especially in the area of police shootings and in particular, black men. My opinion on the matter (and it IS only my opinion) is that the police mind-set is such that there are bad guys and good guys. They see themselves as the good guys, and it would seem that any one of color is automatically seen first, as a bad guys. then has to PROVE they are not.
Dwelling on the good and bad nations is not fruitful for ones overall health, as I see it. I do acknowledge much of what Patrick states about The British is on point. and feel (as Karl Marx noted) that most revolution merely replace that, that was overturned.
I contend that until such times as there is a total radical change from the way we humans are currently behaving, we are into our own demise. AND I am part of the problem. It is just this one aspect of human neurosis:- the proclivity to “DEFEND”, mainly our ego. We seem to be able to see quite clearly the foibles of the other guy. It’s ourselves we seemingly are so blind to. To quote my idol WS “It is not in our stars dear Brutus, but in ourselves that we are underlings”.
Jack
Gretchen – you are getting ‘worse’ this last one I put on had to do with the British Empire and it’s big connection with slavery, the Jews had only a part role in that but that goes too!! You actually really do surprise me I would never imagined you could be that ‘bad’ But bad you are in terms of it seems your absolute close minded and biased clannish to an extreme degree behaviour. Even Jack !!! imagine says here I am ‘on point’ about the British Empire I mean for maybe one of the few times what I say is acceptable to Jack but to you it has to be deleted.
You have shown yourself to me in a very bad light I have a hard time even imaging someone so biased but there you have it you have shown it to me.I would never have thought it could be esp from someone who makes a living from the slogan ‘all feelings/thoughts are valid’ well some of them are not. I will try to be charitable here and put it down to you being severly intellectually challenged maybe from a life time of listening to people maybe your brain has kind of gone to cauliflower salad or something. In all honesty I use to think that about therapists how could they listen to all this crap year after year so maybe you have succumbed. I suspect and could say something worse but that will have to do for tonight.
Now will this get deleted and if so on what grounds. Maybe I should be more like Jack and say ‘ok Gretchen just delete whatever you like’ What a kiss ass and an aggressive viper by turns. And we know whose ass he kisses (authority) and whom he attacks (someone who bailed him out several times from quite serious situtations) Oh well I live and I learn (hopefully)
quote:- “And we know whose ass he kisses (authority) and whom he attacks (someone who bailed him out several times from quite serious situtations) Oh well I live and I learn (hopefully)”
It seems you don’t live and learn. You obviously don’t have a clue why it was deleted and yet it was repeated to you several times.. One question remains unanswered, and I have asked several times?:- Why did you bail me out (as you put it)??????
Me thinks, because I was very, very useful to your bottom line.
It never came across as compassion to me, and I felt for years, you actually resented a huge part of me. Reflect back … Why did your partner want out, and leave?????
I know why cause he told me; after leaving the company … we kept in contact for a time
Jack
“The way we talk to our children becomes their inner voice.” Peggy O’Mara
“A baby’s cues are trustworthy; there is no discrepancy between the feeling and its expression.”
Kevin Nugent & Abelardo Morell
2 quotes I like.
L
Leslie: I like them also.
Jack
Leslie and Jack, here’s a little girl wanting to get her way, feeding the dog a treat and she tells her mother to settle down and talk nice to her. Sweet child.
https://wwwyoutube.com/watch?v=wN8rL0TsmSE
Try again
https://wwwyoutube.com/watch?v=wN8rL0TsmSE
Here goes one more time to get the video.
Syvia: I did try again and got this response “The site ahead contains harmful programs”
Jack
Sylvia: Finally got it. Yep a very cute little girl. According to my father I at the same age was very rumbustious. Could it be I never got over it????.
Jack
Probably Jack, they say our personalities are formed by three yrs. I always talked with my mom but would clam up around strangers. Always had pets and still do.
Syvia: The major part of our personalities I agree … in the womb and the fist few years BUT I do feel even throughout life color our views and are a factors in shaping our personalities; but the major part. I agree are in those very formative years..
Jack
Sylvia: I tried to look at the link you provided and I was warned that it constituted some dangerous software. Hope other had a better result.
Jack
This from the Guardian which as I say I don’t like anymore mostly at to ‘opinion’ but it is a decent enough newspaper for actual ‘news’. Anyway ahead of this much talked about ‘debate’ between Clinton and Trump who shows up in NY and meets BOTH of them well our trusty Satanyahu to remind them of who the REAL ‘minder’ is. He is who they BOTH have to REALLY answer to…………….most of the rest of it is just ‘bread and games’ for the deluded masses. I said about 6 months ago this was in reality a contest to see who could be the best President for Israel and so it seems to be turning out…………..as to WHY they have to answer to him that takes quite a bit of time and study and it goes in WW2 and beyond and not something that can be conveyed to the likes of Jack who though not exactly young anymore might as well belong to the twitter generation of endless distraction and attention seeking and short attention spans
https://www.theguardian.com201626/donald-trump-links-mexico-border-wall-plan-to-israels-successful-separation-barrier
This post is for Daniel:
I am posting to let you know I did read both of your earlier posts regarding Europe and the older woman you saw in the café who, as you described through your friend, “had a secure and important governmental job, she was going into apartment buildings making sure no Jews were working there gardening or cleaning, and especially that no one was consorting with them or God forbid having a man-woman relationship with them, contaminating the Arian bloodstream”.
I am only verifying to you at this point that I read everything so you wouldn’t wonder whether I simply ignored them.
I wish there was a checkmark that I could fill out which signals that I had read someone’s posts during those times really don’t have a response I can share.
corrected last sentence “….during those times I really don’t have a response I can share.”
I am a sucker for a good contest as much or maybe more than most people. I remember as a kid being very interested and the kind of ‘can’t wait’ feeling when Cassius Clay was about to fight Sonny Liston. So I am up for this Clinton v Trump thing I might even stay up here to watch it in the middle of the night. I just seems a pity though it is not much of a ‘real’ contest more like World Wide Wrestling with Satanyahu as the referee and master of ceremonies. I think the fact that this dude shows up in NY the day before and meets with BOTH of them is pretty telling. Can you imagine ANY other world leader having the balls and the access to do that. But he can and can do a lot more truth be told. Any result will be fine by him as both wrestlers are spoken for the rest of us can get our cheap thrills.
As I have said before I consider Trump a very flawed candidate still I am ‘for’ him again Hillary or Killary as some call her. I really do wonder though if she can even make it through 90mins with no commercial breaks (what is happening to America no commercial breaks?) I do believe she has massive health problems but I suppose she will be drugged up to the eyeballs and maybe even higher so I just wonder if she even can hack it at all. It’s very sad really that she feels she has to do this to herself but let’s see I at least am intrigued by this aspect of it. My ‘cheap thrills’ I suppose.
Another reason Jack that I can’t and won’t ‘answer’ you is I am sure I would fall foul of the ‘censor’ have you thought of that? Just about all of your questions or at least any honest attempt at an answer would be ruled in-admissable and probably would be deleted. So another reason to pass on that.
Patrick: Your last paragraph is a bit of a delusion, I contend. The censoring has nothing to do with pointing out ideas in someones book. BUT I will not go further. My feeling is that subliminally (though could be wrong) is that your answer might cause you to have to re-evaluate some of your prior statements.
Unless you actually try … you’ll never know.
Jack
What anonymous posted a short while ago is prompting this response from me.
I am going to substitute guns for high-velocity automobiles.
Let’s pretend for a second that we have an imaginary society which requires 200 million citizens to briefly put a loaded gun to their heads each day. All they have to do is point the gun at their temple and rest their finger, but not pull, the trigger for a few minutes each day. The citizens can then put the gun down for the day and go home. This mass action is required to keep this imaginary society’s economy moving each day.
A few thousand out of these 200 million gun holders slip up and have a nervous twitch, or maybe slippery fingers, killing or maiming themselves in the process.
Do we blame the individuals in this case? Or do we blame the larger system for requiring such a precariously risky means of lurching society forward to begin with?
To me, the answer is obvious and it’s also why high-tech companies are frantically trying to make driverless cars go mainstream.
And in case one might think I am being overly dramatic by comparing driving a car to pointing a loaded gun at yourself, all one has to do is drive down a two-lane highway and imagine what it would be like to have your steering wheel turned a mere two inches to the left as an oncoming semi tractor-trailer approaches in the opposite lane. Almost as easy to kill yourself as pulling a gun trigger.
Everyday, hundreds of millions of people are required to be in these precarious situations where there is little to no margin for error so everyone goes to work and our economy hums along. That’s why I have some deep suspicions and believe it’s cheap and sleazy to lay the blame entirely on the individual. Do people really deserve the death penalty for something as easy as dropping a cup of coffee? Our government spends several millions of dollars to prevent convicted murderers from such a fate, after all.
Guru: I see little clarity to either your analogy or conclusion.
My take on gun violence is a simple one … Repeal the 2nd amendment to the constitution.. The solution to traffic fatalities, at least in the number of them, is to ban automobiles and everyone travel by public transport, and reduced speeds limits considerably
I don’t see either happening.
Jack
Guru,
Before cars people lived in towns or cities where their jobs were. The development of cars allowed commuting and living in suburbs so as to get away form bad neighborhoods.
The “system” didn’t require anything, it evolved to where we are now and is/was a matter of choice. The way you put it sounds like another conspiracy theory.
Phil
Guru,
In many places you could still live without a car. In New York City owning a car is a hassle and you can do fine without one. Do you have a car and drive? Are you a cab driver or something? Where I live having a car is necessary but it was my choice to move here.
Going back to what anonymous said, accidents are mostly caused by driver behavior. Exceeding the speed limit, aggressive driving due to impatience, road rage, driving while intoxicated. Looking at a cell phone and texting. How many people actually obey the speed limit? We choose to exceed it.
Automated machines won’t become inpatient, they will follow the speed limit.
But there is no “system” forcing us to do anything like driving a car. It all developed by choice and remains so up to this time.
Phil
Phil: I feel very offended by your arguments and I also feel there is something wrong with your logic.
That’s all I am going to say because this would become too much of an emotional drain for me to continue.
I am only typing this out to let you and the blog know I am not bobbing my head in agreement with you or whoever this shady anonymous character is.
Guru,
Sorry I have offended you.
Just pointing out that we have cars because we like them, or at least I do. The same with cell phones and everything else we have.
I can remember the wonderful feeling of freedom when I first got my drivers licence.
I didn’t have a car but my father would let me use his and then I could go anywhere, within reason.
Do your ideas on this have some relation to your trauma?
Thinking on this while driving my car to work just now. it’s a short drive and I feel
there is little likelihood of an accident.
I hope you won’t go away Guru. Saying it’s an emotional drain seems too easy.
Phil
Guru,
I haven’t posted anything anonymously recently, so that was someone else.
Phil
Phil: To answer your previous question, I have roughly 500,000 miles of driving experience under my belt. I have not had a ticket or collision of any kind for 22 years now.
Guru,
It’s too bad that not everyone is as safe and careful a driver as you seem to be.
Phil
Phil: My reason for answering your question is that, even with an impeccable driving record, I still don’t agree with either you or our dubiously brave “Anonymous” blogger with the surface assessments being made.
I could have been hit and hurt or killed many times over the years. Lots of harrowing near misses.
Guru,
You don’t feel you have chosen to be a driver?
I could be still living in a large city getting around by public transportation.
After a few years of living that way I bought a car because of the freedom it gave me
but not out of necessity.
Phil
Phil: I’m not going to expect this statement to be well understood by many people, but here goes: I believe your “choice” question needs to be re-phrased under a totally different framework of thought in order to begin approaching the actual issues at hand.
Guru,
Why not re-phrase the question under the framework you have in mind and then explain it. So, is that why you won’t answer my question?
Phil
Guru: I have in the recent past, suggested to you that the issue of “traffic fatalities” is a secondary one. I feel that the real issue for you is you lost your mother in early child-hood. How she died is secondary in-so-far as It was perhaps some years later that you became aware of how it happened .
Seemingly, you do not wish to discuss how in your current life or how it affected you in your child-hood. I suspect that to do so would be extremely painful and understandably so.
This issue seems to be dominant on the blog at the moment, I feel is not going to resolve anything for anyone. That anyone wishing to discuss it, is up to you/them. I have no problem with it, except that it seems to be going no-where..
Jack
Here is a quote from today’s Irish Times
‘with a crowd of 34,445 turning up at Croke Park, the highest attendance ever for the women’s football All-Ireland finals. And not even a day that produced four seasons of weather by half-time could deter them’
I am drawing attention to the ‘four seasons of weather by half-time ‘ comment. That is what we have here climate fucking chaos (the acronym is CFC)……………weather manipulation is clear or should be to people who have always been sensitive to the weather. But many are not amazingly enough. The global brainwashing program goes ahead fairly undisturbed. Four seasons of weather in one day is far from normal but IS becoming ‘normal’ around here……………
Many people don’t believe in climate change because it isn’t necessarily noticeable.
But apparently the last few years have been some of the warmest on record. I’ve understood that scientists predict more extreme weather patterns as another result of
global warming. The weather is changing but not by intentional manipulation.
Imagine a fish purposely poisoning his own tank to kill all the fish, including himself.
So are we to believe that chem trail pilots are purposely polluting to sicken and kill people including themselves, and governments are directing this? What a crazy thing to believe. Even the crazy ISIS people mostly want to live, except maybe for suicidal bombers.
Phil
Phil – it might SOUND ‘crazy’ especially to someone who is way too lazy and imbued with conventional thinking to extend themselves in any way. Their or your choice as the case maybe
Patrick,
I don’t know if we’ve identified a conspiracy theory you don’t believe in.
I get the feeling I could cook one up today, and by tomorrow you’d subscribe to it.
It would have to be under a different name though, as you wouldn’t believe anything I say, or just about anything anyone else says here.
It seems your main reason for being on the blog is to be oppositional.
here.
> Phil,
> yes, I found it even hard to imagine it was actually these white trails from the planes that were meant to be part of the vicious setup.
> I remember how as a small child I already used to love looking up to the sky and seeing these white trails growing, and then slowly dissipating , and occasionally a smaller plane would write something in the sky!
> even back then I already knew those high planes trails are merely formed of vapour cristallizing up there. the smaller planes probably used something different to write their m message in a lower part of the sky, but it did only happen on very few occasions.
> don’t know who comes up with stuff like that, maybe they heard some rumours about actual spraying wiht small (metal?) partickles occasionally to create rain fall but that is not so common luckily as it does indeed not sound healthy probably. as far as I know it is sometimes done to either avoid more rain in an area the clouds are moving to, which is already getting flooded for example, or to induce rain in areas that badly need it. but I personally do not find it a good idea but that is my only very partially informed feeling more than a strong opinion. but they fly just above those clouds and definitely are not those trails way up there.
> M
Jack, I hear what you say about personal loss. But I would think it still adds salt to the wound to be reminded that losing so many on the hi-way still, with no real uprising about it and no good solutions is hard to take.
Sylvia: Not only is there no uprising about it, but I routinely receive dishonest, shitty, and offensive questions/comments along the way.
What if I asked the descendants of the Jews who died during WW2, “Why did your ancestor choose to stay in Germany and not leave? They could have left, you know! Perhaps they should have looked at their own choices instead of the Third Reich”
Or how about if I asked the friends and relatives of the 9/11 folks, “Why did you choose to work in tall skyscrapers or sensitive military installations? You really didn’t have to choose to work in such risky areas and make yourselves such a tempting target. Oh well, you reap what you sow!”
I don’t think it takes an active imagination to realize such questions or comments would be horribly offensive to them and that’s why Anonymous and Phil’s comments riled me up a bit, as well.
Guru,
My questioning has to do with your choices in light of your feelings about cars, not any choice your mother might have made. An honest reaction to your talk about being trapped or forced by the “system” to use cars.
Phil
Guru,
It appears to me from your last comment that when you talk about traffic deaths, cars, and attention given to the issue, you are really somehow talking about the trauma of the loss of your mother and I should be sensitive to that. For that reason it’s a good discussion and I’m glad you bring it up but wish you could be more direct about it.
Phil
Guru: Easy answers to complex questions. I had a friend that did flee Germany at the onset of the The Third Reich. Leaving all his possessions, the family wealth, and family.
We are so seemingly, competent and confident at solving other peoples problems … the expense of solving our own … IMO.
Jack
Sylvia: I disagree with you that it is rubbing salt into the wound. If have it correctly the way out of Primal Pain is by going back through it, feeling and expressing it. All else is putting off what needs to be done and felt.
I see no way that publicizing “Traffic Fatalities”, or even starting a discussion on it, will resolve the problem. It’s convenient to hope that either technology or legislation will do much to reduce it IMO.
However, I concede that none of us like pain and the initial re-action is to stop it by all means possible.
Jacfk
Hey, Guru and all of us are constantly being reminded that bad, maybe preventable things are happening on the road. Do we have a national day saying, “look at the people we are losing.” If Aliens had abducted 8,000 people a day I think we would notice. I think that Guru’s take on the traffic situation is part of the feeling and not separate from it, wherever it leads.
I’m going to put that 8,000 alien abduction as annual for California, not daily, sorry.
In the interest of being more accurate, I see that the fatal car collisions in Calif. has decreased over the years. When hearing about it in the 70’s it was nearly 8,000. I see that it has improved to about 3,000 per year. I feel better about that.
Be careful out there, y’all, wherever you are.
It is said the truth will release you. But it sure hurts. I sure could use a lie.
There is a woman, far over the sea.
Standing and waiting, praying for me.
Here I lie sleeping, a girl by my side.
Who am I hurting, each time I lie?
Lie to me, lie
Lie to me, lie
There is a woman, trying hard to be brave.
The way that I hurt her, has made her afraid.
Things that I’m doing, are breaking her heart.
Still she’s pretending, that we’ll never part.
Lie to me, lie
Lie to me, lie
I don’t care what people may say, I know everybody lies.
I’m not trying to hurt my love, I’m only trying to get by.
There is a woman, far over the sea.
Standing and waiting, praying for me.
Here I lie guilty, a girl by my side.
Who am I hurting, each time I lie?
Lie to me, lie [Repeat: x4]
I did manage to see most of the ;’debate’ in terms of a boxing match I didn’t think either landed a knock out punch so to speak. I thought Trump was better but then again I would I suppose. I think he is hampered in that though he is rightly critical of the huge mess Obama/Clinton have made of the Middle East he cannot really to my way of thinking be ‘radical’ enough about what has gone wrong. So he falls between two stools a bit.
But what struck me more was the instant analysis afterwards on NBC and how QUICKLY they decide who won and who lost and according to them Hillary ‘won’ and won big time. I could and did not see that at all. Then go to the Guardian and Huffington Post the worst of all and just ridiculous headlines about how awful Trump was and how great Hillary did. But it seems in terms of manipulating people it is very important to get the first hit in , establish what happened RIGHT AWAY. Your ‘version’ of what happened. This reminds me also of 9/11 and 7/7 in London by noon the ‘story’ is spun and then established as to what happened. It seems in human psychology it is then quite rare for people to change their minds after that and it seems that is particularly true if there is ‘trauma’ involved as in the case of 9/11. Also people do not want to change their minds as that means an admission that they were wrong
I feel this works in personal trauma also something terrible happens our brains QUICKLY ‘decide’ what happened or how to deal with it and that then become a kind of frozen response that usually literally lasts a lifetime. But it is interesting to me to see how that kind of human responce to trauma is ‘understood’ by the manipulators of public opinion and they quite consciously use that I mean in the sense of establishing the ‘truth’ of a situation so FAST and then it becomes a kind of frozen reality in people’s minds. People ‘knew’ who did 9/11 by about noon on the same day……….except of course they did not ‘know’ they only know what they were told and for most people that’s it nothing budges that. And I suppose that is really true about personal trauma and why the ‘job’ of going back and ‘re-thinking’ this stuff can be so messy and difficult.but to me it is worth doing both on a personal level and also on a more ‘political’ level. And for me at least they both go together I think it is a mistake to think it ONLY applies on a personal level. Real change involved all levels of the brain and personality which I think has sort of been a problem in ‘psychology’ as it mostly tries to keep it to ONLY the ‘personal’ level.
Patrick: I do have to agree that it’s often a mistake to only apply psychological problems to a personal level when there could be larger societal forces quietly working against the individual in the background.
In society’s eyes one individual is nothing more than an easily expendable speck, so in a sad way it’s better and more efficient for society to have the individual slowly destroy him or herself in a world of self-recrimination instead of casting a firm spotlight on a society’s shortcomings which may be actively working against the individual.
Yes Guru I agree……….and I think primal often has the unfortunate effect of NOT looking at the broader picture because there is this sort of fear like ‘it will take away my feeling’ well maybe it should then rather than being stuck in repitition mode forever and ever. Primal is good but by far not the ONLY thing and by making it the only thing a lot is lost imo……. and forever ‘trying to feel’ about something is very close to drug addict behavour.
Patrick: So now you are also an expert on drugs and drug behavior. I don’t think so. What’s your drug of choice?
I’ll take a guess, Your very own righteousness.
Jack
Quote: “Also people do not want to change their minds as that means an admission that they were wrong”. Does that even apply to you??????? You seemingly always think you are right and that everyone else is wrong.
On another aspect …. when did you become so expert on psychology. Give us a bit of background on that one… !!!!!
The debate ….. I totally disagree with you, but then we all know what you feel about Trump.
Jack
Dr Judy Wood who I think wrote THE book that explained what happened on 9/11 talks about this………….she said at the end of that day her mother was skeptical of the official ‘story’ her father was not and she says so it has remained to this day 15 years later. So she says getting the FIRST version out is very important if you want to manipulate how people will think about it Dr Wood herself felt it was ‘impossible’ for the official version to be correct and she also has followed on that track, Anyway just a few thoughts of ‘instant reactions’ and how they set us up for a long long time afterwards. Below is the link the Huffington Post put on now about the debate. That ‘newspaper’ rag really annoys me it’s a bad sign for a ‘paper’ like that to have these kinds of headlines for months and months every day and really is just total propoganda I am surprised it does not disgust people totally
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
Phil – you might find this interesting as it touches on quite a few of these things, chemtrails global warming and even the election. I like this guy just seems like some young dude who sort of thinks for himself
This is another one by the same guy, I like the background music on this………….
It just occurs to me now the way Margaret describes seeing the planes leaving the vapor trails in the sky. I had the same thing I used to love watching that and the kind of magical way the trail ‘appeared’ a bit behind the plane and later ‘dissapeared’ a bit back from the plane. And it seems to connect now to this thing of the FIRST story being always the one believed…………….and this is used quite consciously I believe in the case of chemtrails. We THINK we know what they are because well we saw them long long ago and why of course it is the same thing happening now………..one problem of course though it is NOT the same not the same at all. But our brains are wired to think and feel that it is and that is how we operate and the people that manipulate these things are very aware of that ‘give them some similarlity to their childhood, that should do it’ and it does. One way it is not the same now in the spraying operation there is not that ‘gap’ before the trail appears it shoots right out of the plane and the biggest difference is it does not dissapear is stays for hours and spreads out and gradually whitens the whole sky. So nothing really to do with that childhood memory but it is comforting and reassuring to think so and I only wish it was true. Also it seems to me being able to separate that similarity from childhood to the present day reality might even be considered ‘progress in therapy’ as it involves being able to see the present more for what it is and not just a shadow of some childhood memory.
I also watched ‘the debate’ in the split screen format showing Trump and Hillary looking like they were standing right next to each other instead of the several feet apart they actually were. It fooled me to where when he became so animated and provoked, I fully expected him to reach over and choke her.
I thought she did a good job.
Saw a little of the Mexican TV’s news report and some were saying Mrs. Clinton looked ‘presidencial y Trump incoherente.’
Sylvia, you might like this debate comment I plucked:
“Actually all presidential debates are split screen. But in this case, it was pure magic. It was like watching a mom with a patient but meaningful raised eyebrow waiting for her toddler to wind down after a sugar high.”
Sylvia,
I thought Hillary won for several reasons. First of all in the second part of the debate Trump went on a long rant and seemed totally out of control, over his time limit etc. It seemed like he had really been provoked.
He again told the outrageous birther lie and the other one about being against the Iraq war. I was glad that he was rightly pressed on these issues. Also Hillary hit him hard about not revealing his tax return and on the birther issue etc. She was clearly very well prepared and presidential. Trump to me came across as very angry and incoherent. It would be hard to imagine him as president.
He will get the angry white guy vote but that’s not enough to win the election. Trump did not press on the email issue, she got off easy on that. It seemed clear to me she won.
Phil
NBC
This.
> I agree with Sylvvia, about the debate.
> Trump was very evasive, full of himself, boasting really, but avoided answering questions and his arguments were sloganesc, had no real specific content at all, just attempts for demagogy.
> Hillary remained calm and concentrated and responded with specific factual information, I think she did very well, much bettre than I expected.
> for me she was a clear winner, as in intelligence against boasting shallowness and nastiness.
> M
Margaret: I had a similar take on the debate as you. The great moment for Hilary I though, was when she just simply admitted that the private server was a mistake and added no rider. I feel and hope it has put to bed the email question about Hilary.
Jack
Phil, Margaret and Silvia,
I watched the highlights of the debate and agree with all of you – and the majority of political pundits – that Hillary was the obvious winner. While not as obnoxious as he has been in the past in his campaign, Trump was often incoherent, going off on rants, which according to “fact checkers” contained many untruths, and was unable to reign in his tenancy to try and bully and cajole when criticised. Hillary was unflappable and clearly the better prepared and more lucid speaker. Surely the majority of Americans must have the greater confidence in her as President. But amazingly, there will be those who saw something completely different in this debate and will have been cheering on Trump and seen it as his victory. It’s perplexing to me that he’s got as far as he has and that the presidential race is as close as it is. Watching his rally’s on TV it got to the point where I wasn’t watching him anymore so much as I was watching his supporters. Because it started to fascinate me as to what sort of person thinks Donald Trump is great and how can there be so many of them. I can only hope that Hillary will go from strength to strength in these debates and clinch it. It will be a great thing for America to go from it’s first black president to it’s first female president.
Donald Trump’s meteoric rise was made possible by the disintegration of the Republican party. He saw opportunity in the splintering chaos of the Republican party and took full advantage of it.
Guru, I’m not sure to what extent the Republican party has disintegrated as you say, but Trump certainly had slim opposition in the Primaries. His presidential campaign looks like an extension of a huge power trip he’s been on probably for most of his life. Witness how he can’t stand to be contradicted or criticized.
I am not sure about ‘slim opposition’ one of the Bush’s etc several other governors of states etc etc. I liked the timing of the way he dispatched Ted Cruz Trump referred to stories (and pictures) strongly suggesting Ted Cruz’s dad hung out with Lee Harvey Oswald and not only ‘hung out’ but was part of the ‘sheep dipping’ of Oswald as a Castro supported (mabye showing my age here). He brought this out one morning by that afternoon Cruz was GONE! gone from the race which shows me the story was only too true. The regular media never talked hardly at all about this but I did notice that. They have never spoken about it since either. Nothing would surprise me about this race and I think Clinton is far from being in the clear esp as regards her health. She has serious health problems
There were other Republican nominees who impressed me more than Trump, not that that would be difficult. I was referring to how easily his opposition seemed to capitulate and how little of a challenge they seemed to offer, from what I saw of the coverage we had over here.
Guru: I’m inclined to agree with you on this one.
The extremes of socialism and the benevolent dictator is a contradiction of terms. Once in power they will never give it up … it’s too comfy.
The opposite, liaise faire business is fine whilst no business is larger than 3 employees. After that it should be an employee run business. The conglomeration of big business is about as out of touch with people as big government.
Jack
I don’t know that the republican party is disintegrating as they still may hold congress and hold more power at state levels. Donald Trump is a talented populist con man who has captured people’s attention. He is also very adept at getting free media coverage.
If he ultimately fails I wonder if there will be more candidates of his type, or if is he one of a kind.
Phil
David,
Trump was somewhat effective when he spoke about trade deals bad for American workers, I thought. He is clearly trying hard to win Ohio and Michigan which are important states for his chances.
What is amazing to me is there are polls showing that Americans think Clinton is less honest than Trump. To me, Clinton bends the truth about an average amount for a politician. She is also a bit overly secretive, but that may be because of conservatives attacking her relentlessly over many years. On the other hand, Trump’s lies are outrageous. Counts have been made and I have seen figures of over 50% of his statements being lies. His supporters don’t seem to mind, which is astounding to me.
I have met some Trump supporters who seem very angry.. One fellow at the gym was ranting about how the “charity” has to stop. We, as a country, are giving our wealth away, according to him. Another seems into conspiracy theories. Clinton has a huge health problem she is covering up and other stories along those lines. Trump appeals to fans of conspiracy theories and people angry about their lot in life. But I don’t see how Trump would fix anything for these people I guess there are many more people like this than we might expect. Also people loyal to the republican party no matter who the candidate might be.. If Trump supported the kind of policies I favor, I still couldn’t vote for him.
He just isn’t qualified He just won’t provide the right leadership and isn’t actually interested in policy. He just hits on issues that get his supporters excited. He has never held an elective office or even worked in government.
Phil
Phil,
Yes, it’s incredible that his supporters would not mind his overt lies. It’s like they’re following his lead that whatever it takes to get him where he wants to go is OK. And I’ve read fact checkers that put his “lie count” at higher than 50%.
You are of course closer to it all in US. From what you say here about his supporters, it sounds like a very similar mentality to those who voted for Brexit here in the UK, which has been more exposed since the Leave campaign won. The main issue was immigration, anger about a perception of others coming over here and taking what is rightfully theirs. Since the result, immigrants have been openly told in the streets “we voted to leave so why haven’t you left?”. There have been hideous physical assaults on foreigners, when the assailant, for example just heard someone speaking in a Polish accent. It just looks like Brexit has empowered some of the sickest people in the country to act out their hatred in racially targeted attacks.
Sorry Sylvia, I see I misspelled your name.
No problem, David. The mentality of hate you speak of in the Brexit movement I think is alive and well here too as we can see in the deplorable basket of Trump supporters as they exhibit violence at his rallies. What with their explosive temper it doesn’t bother them that someone with the same temper can control nuclear power. Maybe they don’t care what happens so long as they can vent hatred. Kaboom!
Phil:
I was thinking about your questioning being forced to participate in America’s automotive culture and I came up with several interesting points in my mind,
The most mind-blowing one for me, though…
If it hadn’t been for the automobile I would likely never have been born. Both of my parents lived hundreds of miles apart from each other before they met, and they both lived hundreds of miles from the graduate school they met. Strictly speaking they could have chosen a bus to go to school (which still qualifies as road transport anyway), but I didn’t have a choice in the matter.
If it weren’t for the automobile my parents wouldn’t have met and I wouldn’t be here. It’s a stark reminder all its own how deeply entrenched the automobile is in American life. I likely owe my very existence to it!
Guru,
That’s an interesting point to realize.
I’m actually very humbled by this sudden realization.
Only when I came to LA did I learn how integral and important automobiles are to American culture, partly because unlike in other cities all around the world, the US included, in LA one needed a car to go anywhere. It later made sense to me to think about it as part of American culture of going west, of vast distances, of freedom, of journey as a state of mind.
But I agree with Guru – every day millions are getting into innocent contraptions that once started and driven become potential ballistic missiles that may or may not hit a target on that particular day. I also agree, very much so, that the penalty for mistakes shouldn’t be death or maiming. That means that governments should provide drivers the best with traffic conditions at their disposal. For example, it should be obvious that governments will do its utmost to provide a functioning and viable mass transit systems, that roads are equipped with the best available safety features, that tax breaks are given to companies who introduce safety features into automobiles (some companies are integrating systems into their new cars that will alert the driver if they’re getting too close to another vehicle, if there is an unplanned change of course that will take them unwillingly to another lane, etc.)
The second point I think Guru is bringing up is, for me, the more interesting one: Why do we accept this? Is the public anesthetized because traffic accidents are so prevalent? Is the public familiar with the odds and accepts them? Or perhaps it doesn’t have a real alternative?
I don’t know how things are traffic-wise in the US these days, but Guru’s analogy of guns is an apt one, for in what looks so strange and crazy from the outside the US has become a ballistic republic where civilians own the most guns per capita of any country on earth, where tens of thousands die from gun violence annually, and toddlers shoot someone at least once a week. In some ways it doesn’t look as if America is very concerned about its citizens’ safety.
Where I live traffic accidents are never off the public agenda: any serious accident with fatalities will be reported on national news usually within the hour; TV and radio infomercials about safe driving are aired during the day and evening; all elementary schools must carry a program for safe pedestrian behavior; there are powerful NGO’s that are pretty aggressive and take up huge billboards that constantly update the number of fatalities from the beginning of the year, and even a bigger one at the end of the year with the total yearly number. If that number is larger than last years’ number they will also put on a picture of the minister of transportation on that year-end ad and hold him responsible for the rise from last year.
And still it’s seems to be accepted, until that is you or one of your loved ones are hit.
I see that France has a low car accident death rate per 100,000 people a year.
of 5.1. For the US it’s 10.6. Europe as a whole is 9.3, the Americas as a whole is 15.9
and the world as a whole 17.4. Listed for the year 2015.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
It’s true we have a very car oriented culture and don’t invest enough in public transportation. Also a culture of individualism. Cars serve a useful purpose as compared to guns, yet even little can be done about guns.
Phil
Daniel: Thank you for your eloquent posting about traffic collisions. I realize your “hot button” concerns are far removed from mine since you were more affected by events in Germany during WWII, but still it was nice enough to read what you had to say about cars and the cavalier attitudes the US seems to have towards the dangers of guns and cars, etc,.
Sometimes it seems as though danger lurks everywhere. I’m struggling to remove plant growth from my backyard and I have to keep a lookout for poisonous pokeberries which might look like less harmful elderberries, being mindful to carefully cut out water hemlock plants, etc.
It seems as though I have to be careful and low-key in everything I do with life being so fragile and easily destroyed. I am still blown away at the idea that I wouldn’t have been born without the aid of automobiles, to boot.
Just another small instance of the fragility of my existence: After fooling around with all this plant life I have to immediately wash my hand, arms, and face to remove any potentially poisonous plant sap so my skin doesn’t develop a nasty rash/blisters, etc.
should i send this email to my darling wife:
“I kind of have to get a reality check here.
Sophie is covered with fast-growing fungus, and has been for a while now.
And yet MANY MANY tiny and not-so-tiny useless items, or maybe some not useless (but not necessary, as measured against Sophie’s misery), have been bought over and over again, instead of fixing her misery.
And of course, we are broke.
Now this is the dog you wanted.
What are you going to do about this?
When are you going to get a clue?”
Well i wont send it. Don’t know how to make contact with this person. she is on the far side of the universe, in her own little world. Nothing i say can reach her, even if i knew how to be kind about it.
An
Patrick: Just read your first comment, so not sure what follows. You seem (in your own mind at least) to know what the problem is:- but seemingly don’t have any solutions … just complain, complain and complain and it’s the same story (tune) being played over and over again.
The record is getting worn out and is so scratchy now. Sadly, you do not see it even after many attempts to tell you. Some nicely, others like me not so nicely, We humans are so flawed as opposed to the sheep your brother tends.
An Idea, why not take the money you still have … buy a few sheep on an adjacent piece of land to your brother and make a crook and tend your sheep … and stay in your beloved Ireland.
Primal seems to not be serving you, and yet you compusively hang onto this blog for reason only you might fathom. Good luck.
Jack
Jack – this ‘sounds’ nice on the surface it also sounds condescending even on the surface to me at least anyway it seems a bit odd you would go about ‘advising’ me while ignoring the fact my comment was ‘censored’ again as anyone here can see. Now Gretchen even shows it right out on the surface she is doing it. Another ‘insult’ show the first word like a gag put on my throat. It’s true I do like to talk and my talk maybe not be to the liking of the ‘guests’ but still it’s hurtful for the ‘parent’ to do that. It’s only in the end at matter of opinion who is being ‘bad’ and who is being ‘nice’ and it’s even highly ironic all this………………..my point is really there is a really few things in the modern world as it is that are now allowed as legitimate things to say or talk about and Gretchen by her actions here basically shows and demonstrates that exact point. I suppose I should not be surprised but actually I am and really in a strange goes to my maybe exaggerated ‘belief’ in primal therapy even after all these years. A belief that it WAS really ‘different’ this was a ‘belief’ formed at a very impressionable age (20) and was so deep it is impossible it seems to shift it. In other times it would usually be religous, later I suppose more ‘political’ like lifetime Communists or something. One of those beliefs that lasts a lifetime some are just totally dedicated I am maybe someone like Mother Theresa who it seems really at times ‘struggled’ with her Faith, in the political arena some again went to their graves commited and convinced others like say Arthur Koestler or George Orwell saw the ‘dark side’
My thoughts are just rambling around here but I just woke up this is kind of the way my mind works I hope that will not be found to be in breach of something or other.
Goodbye Blue Sky……………..and Free Speech……………..Goodbye to lots of things
http://fox6now.com/2015/10/20/three-arrested-in-connection-with-laylah-petersen-homicide/
Going further into the theme of a dangerous world…
I was reading a story about some gang members seeking retaliation against a target in Milwaukee and shooting at the wrong house. They emptied an entire clip of bullets on this mistaken house. Two of the bullets went directly into the skull of a 5 year-old girl sitting on her grandfather’s lap inside the house. Needless to say she was killed and I would have a hard time imagining being in the grandfather’s shoes mentally after something like that happens.
Stories like these stop me in my tracks and make it harder to try to fearlessly carry on with my day.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/08/160817134745350.html
Abdul Aziz Oryakhail is an Afghani firefighter whose specialty is to clean up after suicide bombings. He has processed thousands of suicide bomb scenes. His psychological fortitude is incredible and I can’t begin to explain how he can handle his job.
A clipping from the Al Jazeera article:
….the cleanup firefighters rarely speak in a way that hints at their emotional state. Even as he recounts the most disturbing scene he has witnessed, Abdul Aziz Oryakhil remains distant and his voice steady.
“Once there was a woman who had been beheaded by the blast. Her three-year-old son was still sitting beside her. He had survived,” Oryakhail says. He pauses for a moment before continuing: “The child was holding his mother’s severed head, screaming her name, ‘Mother, Mother’ …”
Informative article, Guru. Those firefighters do suffer from PTSD. I think we don’t hear enough about the impossible things the Afghans are going through. One said they hated the attackers for all the death they bring and when they go to clean up this war zone in their streets yearn for what it must be like to live in a peaceful country. It all puts a human face on the situation there.
Sylvia: I would like to know how the firefighters (and particularly Mr. Oryakhail) can summon the sheer strength of will to carry on with their excruciating duties as they do. I’d have been a blubbering idiot cowering in a dark corner after a day or two, never wanting to see the color red (as in blood) ever, ever again.
In light of this, maybe I will find myself a nice, quiet cabin in Canada far away from big city troubles where I can fish at a lake and watch the stars without light pollution. I can stay over at Larry’s place while I sort out exactly where to go afterwards.
I was surprised that the firefighters suffer the same stigma as our soldiers who come home in seeking treatment for psychological trauma.
I guess Larry is forewarned about your visit.
I’ll see if I can find my Welcome Guru mat and have it ready.
Syvia: I come from a country that had colonies all over the globe and wondered why many hated us. The US has now taken over that role and we wonder why the terrorist. We are unable to look into ourselves to see what it might be about ourselves that created the hatred and mayhem.
It is NOT something that just erupts out the blue; by our notion of the bad guy … thinking we are the good guys. That’s our OPINION; not necessarily there’s.
Jack
Jack, I hear a good book on that subject is Stephen Kinzer’s “Overthrow: America’s Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq.” I’ve always heard that we went after other country’s resources but it was not something taught in school.
Have you read The Confessions of an Economic Hit Man?
Larry, I looked at the new edition and see it is very interesting. Awaiting its arrival. Thanks for the recommendation for us. Looks like the U.S. has been devious according to the preview so far of Perkin’s book.
Larry: I am more inclined these days to rely on what my gut feelings are. I was given a great deal of history at school and lead to believe it was all true AND our British benevolence. Later, I realized that it was all biased in one form or another.
I tend not to read books either, knowing that most book that make it to market are marketed and sold first. That says little to me about what is their “Truth” or opinion. We are all biased one way or another dependent on factors too complex to even fathom.
However, I thank for the information, but I prefer to listen to opinions then asses them within the framework of my own biases.
Jack
Terrible story, not anything I want to read about or see
Just so you know, there are no really graphic photos in the story. Some of the written descriptions are graphic, yes. Maybe I shouldn’t have posted that worst scene description?
In any case, since the Primal Institute is a clinic specializing in healing psychological trauma it might be worthwhile or educational to learn how people deal with the absolute worst of the worst. The story explained that the firefighters actually don’t have any mental health professionals, but they banded together for support when needed.
I think it’s interesting how these non-mental health professionals instinctively banded together as a support group completely on their own out of necessity.
Guru
My imagination did the job for me.
Just my reaction; not saying you shouldn’t post it
I do feel ‘sympathy’ for Trump and agree with him and others that the ‘moderator’ in that debate was very biased by first off the questions he asked and secondly the way he pushes back on Trump and lets Hillary alone all together. Also his points about the ‘media’ I find them incredibly ‘biased’ and what is a bit amazing and interesting I suppose is how across the board this is. I don’t know if anyone else scans the Huffington Post and I keep going on about it because to me this is something new, this complete abondonment of even a ‘pretence’ of balance or fairness. As I keep saying also the Guardian which does a good job of the ‘pretending’ part is also incredible biased. It seems to me something new, and something quite like the Soviet Union in it’s ‘glory days’ of Pravda etc
I think we are living in what is effectivly a totalitarian world, it is sort of invisible because it is done at the level of ‘thought’ no police enforcing it on the street so to speak though the blacks in the US would dispute that probably. It is invisible also because it is so total, like all ‘reasonable’ people believe in the efficacy of vaccines, the truth of the global warming theory, the an attempt at wiping out a certain group happened etc etc. These are sort of the articles of faith and there are many many other aspects to this like the worst things to be are ‘racist’ ‘homophobic’ ‘hateful’ etc etc and these are the kinds of buzz words to enforce these beliefs to bring down the power of ANY country to be truly in charge of itself and have a kind of coherent strategy to survive even AS a country.
So as I said several times already (before Jack uses his cheap shots about my attitude to Trump) I do consider Trump a very flawed characted but I have sympathy for him as he is knowingly or not pushing against these kind of implicitly accepted beliefs which I do believe are mostly wrong and quite harmful to people. And we have the state of the modern world to sort of show they are not exactly ‘good’ ideas. Trump of course himself quite an exponent of the ‘modern world’ is I think shocked and surprised the ‘treatment’ he is getting but even that is part of his appeal probably most people deep down feel this way. I mean that they are being screwed by the ‘system’ somehow that they are in an unfair game that if they try to take it to court the judge is corrupt and even after all that the ‘pundits’ are still against him and take the side of the corrupt judge/moderator. Like David here goes on about Trump’s ‘lies’ I am not sure about that at all I know the media lie ABOUT him constantly all the time. To take one almost at random example on this subject of taking away guns he said to Hillary ‘ok then have the Secret Service take away their guns in protecting you’ I mean he has somewhat of a point there like he is saying to her YOU don’t actually put away YOUR guns but whatever he has somewhat of a point……………but what do most of the media run with from that oh that he advocated the assasination of Clinton. That is one example there are loads of more so actually who is ‘lying’ here …………………anyway I don’t even know why I am writing all this stuff I am sure people here will find it ‘crazy’ or whatever and I will see them in turn as weak and brainwashed and all kind of walking in lockstep to these kind of poisonous ‘ideas’ And if I step out of line a bit more I will be ‘censored’ and nobody will object. All the seeming champions of ‘free speech’ like Jack or whomever will be silent. I think that is the kind of feeling Trump is getting too but see maybe that is his appeal including to me he feels the same things as I am feeling. What IS surprising to me is the he has any chance at all and I think in a funny way that is a great testament to the kind of individuality or orneryness of Americans here this kind of political correctness is almost total. Brain washing here (I mean in Europe in general) is very strong and very unchallenged and even as examples here look at David and Margaret total ‘true believers’ of what’s in the papers. I would question if these ‘beliefs’ are really helping them or imprisoning them but whatever that’s just my take
“anyway I don’t even know why I am writing all this stuff”
An honest admission. I think you should just “give it a rest” as we say in England.
When I feel like it I will and won’t particular be based on English views about ‘giving it a rest’ or ‘getting on with things’ or even ‘keeping a stiff upper lip’ no thanks we have had it up to here with the English and their ‘wisdom’ As for yourself David I see a lot of ‘fatigue’ in your thinking. It seems ‘tired’ and conventional and just imbued with this weak Guardian like tea. Maybe try some stronger stuff………..
“Stronger stuff” as in what? The latest conspiracy theory that’s doing the rounds on the furthest fringes of the internet? Actually, your use of that phrase is very telling and revealing. Isn’t that a phrase used to refer to a drug or something alcoholic? I really think that these ideas, and the compulsive way you come on this blog to endlessly recycle them, are your fix. And the pain that they cover up must be very big indeed judging by the extent of your compulsion. As for trying them myself, no thanks.
David,
Getting a fix seems to me a very apt description.
Patrick: I am not sure a billionaire needs your sympathy. Like you, he’s a verbal bully and rants on and on about all that he doesn’t like and hates criticism of any kind. Like you he thinks he has all the answers. None of us have. If we humans were to abolish that, that caused 99% of all the mess in the world then we’d all be equal, there’d be not need for police (high paid bullies) laws and lawyers, governments and militarizes and yep national borders.
We’d all be free at last. It is you that seemingly are not able to see beyond ‘the end of your nose’
Why do you stay on this blog??????? Please make an attempt to anser the question …. since you seemingly are so HURT when youre comment is deleted. Are you a masachist??????
You have no ansswers, Trump has no answers, I have only one suggestion (call it an answer if you like) Abolish money; then the likes of Trumps becomes irrelavent.
Incidently the moderator made a bold attempt to get at Hilary and she completely and brilliantly IMO, ‘took the legs from enderneath him’ and put to rest the whole ’email server’ question. She simply admitted it was a mistake and did not add a rider.
Something neither you nor Trump are able to do … you are so righteous.
Last point … Primal for me is something I KNOW from within my very being … so as such is not a belief system; hence is beyond the realms of religion. I do not have to follow Art Janov, Gretchen or any other primal person or even attend the Primal Institute. I’m on my own with my Jimbo. That’s all I need for now other that to respond to you and anyone else on the blog that inspires me to respond, AND I love blogging.
Jack
Below
Daniel, I have to admit your September 27th posting about cars being ballistic missiles was an extraordinarily perceptive one where I am concerned. It’s one of those rare posts that strike close to the heart of how I really think about things. Patrick and Margaret also once posted deeply understanding missives about my distant past, as well. All three of these post retain a permanent place in my gallery of champions, thank you.
Patrick, you said late in your last post that the Jews are about tired of Americans and ready to throw in their lot with the Chinese. I’ve only met a limited number of Jews in my life (maybe a dozen) and even I can see Jews can a widely diverse group bereft of groupthink. I once had a Jewish drug counselor who was a spitting image of Jerry Garcia, wore two big hearing aids, and he struggled to overcome heroin and gambling problems. I doubt he had enough power to shift focus from the US to China.
I do have some latent concerns about certain subsets (my emphasis) of the Jewish population controlling a worrisome amount of wealth and power in the world possibly to the detriment of others, but to lump all Jews together in a hegemony of thought is clearly inaccurate even from the limited sample size I have personally interacted with.
By the way, I felt it safe enough to describe the drug counselor a little bit because he has been deceased for a fair number of years now and I won’t name him anyway. One of the amazing things about him in particular was that he was really good at filling emotional needs my dad couldn’t fulfill.
The thing is, Guru, is there anything specifically Jewish about the riches of that subset, or perhaps class is the defining feature, and the other fact – that some or even many Jewish people managed for all kinds of reasons to belong to higher classes – is just an adjunct. In other words, it’s a class issue rather than an ethnic one.
Here, Patrick:
You might want to take a look at Wikipedia’s entry on Kiryas Joel, New York: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryas_Joel,_New_York
It’s worth noting that poor Jews of the world are largely invisible because they can’t afford to participate in activities which draw attention. The rich and famous tend to grab the sensational headlines.
Guru
Patrick: Well, I have to say it’s interesting that you seem to want Gretchen to disavow Judaism. Of the dozen or so Jews I knew outside Vivian’s Institute it never occurred to me to ask them to divest themselves of the label. At the time I actually thought it was pretty cool when they told me they were Jewish. It seemed interesting to me and I never had any problems with them. I say this because most of my meetings with them occurred after I had done in-depth studies of the tactics of various Jewish businessmen during my own free time in college.
What do you think of Donald Trump’s daughter Ivanka converting to Judaism in 2009 and still practicing today? It seems Donald wasn’t too happy with her decision, but he grudgingly went along with it.
Not that I am encouraging this to happen, but a really strange twist of irony would dictate that lasting peace and security could be attained on the blog if Patrick himself converted to Judaism like Ivanka Trump did as a personal experimental journey.
I know it probably won’t happen. Just sharing a weird thought.
Guru,
I suggested this sometime back but Patrick didn’t respond. I just thought that way he could be on the winning team, and we could have more peace and harmony here.
A win-win outcome.
The twist of irony is already in place: It bridges Patrick’s copy-paste notion that being Jewish is a myth with his monomaniacal obsession with it.
Daniel: I agree with you that Patrick has a maniacle view on Judasim and in particular Israel. I am not sure it helps him other than his obsession to write about it on this blog. However, many of your comments have brought up things that I have thought about and come to conclusions about, for myself.
The first is:- I have no desire to identify with any group … other than my family. I have no desire to identify with any ethnicity that I might be supposedly considered that I belong to. That includes the Gay, British, European, Christian communit or even the white community. I always felt I had more in common, anatomically, with a black man or any other ethnic male person, than any female of a white skin color. I do and did feel a sense of belonging to my family … but that was more luck than anything I did on my part.
As far as I am concerned with any person of any ethnicnicity.. there are some I like, some I dislike and most I know nothing of. That applies to the whole spectrum of people.
A scond one is: Feeling insulted. The matter of feeling insulted for me would only occur if I allowed myself to be feel insulted. There is a difference in feeling insulted to feeling hurt IMO. Normally, I tend only to feel hurt from someone close to me … for which there are very few, but to feel insulted is something I am very sure of is something I never feel these days. I did in the past. Those day are gone for me, and I feel good about it.
A third is:- “Pride and/or Shame”. There’s nothing I feel the need to be ‘proud’ of. I have many regrets about many things I have done, but I would never classify any of it as “Shame”.
I may think of more as time progresses, but I did feel I’d like to acknowledge some things you brought up for me, with some of your comments.
Jack
I don’t feel pride or shame in being Jewish, I just am Jewish. But, all through history and even on this blog, if you should happen to forget that you’re Jewish, someone will remind you.
Daniel: Do they have to know?
Jack
> Guru, that was an awful scene you described, it really hit me emotionally.
> poor poor kid…
>
> all so very sad and very very crazy.
> M
Margaret: Are you referring to the girl shot to death while sitting on her grandfather’s lap? Yes, that was a horribly unfair & absurd occurrence which completely defies any safety or sanctity of innocent children being at home with family. The police chief made the investigation personal by carrying the girl’s picture in his pocket for a year while his team tried to track down the killer, so I’m sure it was an emotional undertaking for him and a lot of others as well.
It does appear the gunmen were identified and found in the end, though.
Not that I expect this to provide emotional comfort, yet mathematically as a population sample size grows larger you will witness increasingly absurd extremes at both ends of the population spectrum.
This is evident in a world of more than seven billion people where you have crazily absurd extremes of toddler boys desperately clutching their mother’s heads as opposed to multi-billionaires wanting to judiciously avoid all taxation on themselves.
> Guru,
> that comment of mine was still referring to the post about the boy sitting next to his dead mother..
> but afterwards reading the other story it was also painful to imagine the pain and sadness the whole family all of a sudden is forced to deal with, and the young life being wiped away in such a violent cruel way..
> so sad.
> M
My original posting of the following was on the way wrong page. I post it here again.
Too much reality. All the people suffering and being killed in Allepo right now. Sometimes feels like it’s happening practically next door. Worn out today. Very low vitality. Low interest in life. Work has been the central agenda of my life for the past 30 years. I don’t think life without it in retirement will be easy. Tonight I don’t feel it will be possible. In retirement I might stay home and become a lonely recluse and wither away.
Feel very alone. My boss retired a year ago. Yet she volunteers her time to help the biologist and I get the field work done. She and I did our last field trip together yesterday, harvesting some long distant field plots. 13 hours together, outdoors at the field site and in the truck hauling trailer and combine to and between field sites and back home again, just me and her from 7 am to 8 pm. I enjoyed the day. The weather was nice. I enjoyed the work challenge. I like working outdoors when I’m not working alone. For that reason I appreciated her company. Because she’s technically not my boss anymore, and because I’ve grown emotionally, I don’t defer to her so much and let her boss me around so much as I used to. Because she’s not my boss anymore, she kind of steps back and lets me do my thing, without butting in so much, because she appreciates I know what I’m doing and do it well. We struggle less in our working relationship. Because I understand her psyche, I listen to her respectfully and allow her room to be her self, kind of caring about this person who is getting older and more frail now and who has been pivotal to the last two decades of my life. In the beginning of our work relationship 20 years ago when I was so shy and anxious, in a way she was like a Mother, supporting me and showing confidence in me to get the job done. In reality she had no choice but to work with me and hope for the best. I know back then a lot of technicians wouldn’t want to work with her. I realized I am grateful for the structure that working for her gave my life, and how lucky I am that I could make my living in research and had the opportunity to work outdoors and to have much variety on my job and the freedom to make independent decisions. There is some routine drudgery in my job, but not most of the time.
Pretty soon the working full time part of my life will be over and I’m afraid of the unknown ahead. Tonight she texted me about what her day was like today and asked how was mine. What’s that about?! Ours has always been a working relationship, not social. I’m uncomfortable with starting a social connection with my boss that was never there before, yet when I retire I’m afraid of losing that daily connection with my workplace community. She seems to want to stay in touch. I don’t know what to make of it. She has children and grandchildren, and work colleagues who are friends who she makes her life with, and a hobby farm and neighbours that she enjoys and a house in the City. In comparison I have so little. So very little. So crippled and stunted is my life. I feel I’m barely hanging on, barely tied to reality as it is. If I lived in Allepo I have so few anchors I’d long ago be carreening over the edge.
Where are the people who would be grounding me? Why do I feel I’m an island separate from everyone. Will I always feel like an outcast, and just have to live with it, and always have to fight to not actually BE an outcast?
I hope a good sleep tonight will put me in a better perspective tomorrow, and more able to address my fears.
Wake up, assess the ‘damage’ from my comments yesterday morning. Main think I suppose is gretchen (the dissapearing ‘expert’) still has her scissors out like some demented Crispr gene editing device. She actually makes these ‘judgements’ as to what is ‘kosher’ lol or not. How weird and how scary too as it seems the whole of the world might well be going in that direction. I think even this ‘internet freedom’ thing will go soon the US apparantly are transferring ‘control’ of the internet to some kind of UN body. I was often not a great fan of the US but when they cede control of the internet so too goes the 1st Amendment. Freedom of speech no more. So I think the real target is the 1st Amendment the 2nd (right to have guns) is probably secondary to the real agenda
China has shown it is quite possible to ‘censor and control’ the internet, can you imagine this combined with say the ‘German type laws’ about the subject we dare not question the sacred lie at the heart of the modern world. Game over for free speech and to take people here even as a cross section there will hardly be a peep. It seems to me people (here) love to be brain washed, crave their slavery and with Jack at the helm the bogus philosopher things should just along as they have for the last 40 years for a while more anyway.
I am disgusted at gretchen’s shenanigans and though as I said I am not a ‘vengeful’ person it’s like I feel she should not get away with this. I put on here some pretty cool stuff and people esp this morris guy and boom gone. As for ‘revenge’ maybe a big article in the Sunday LA Times entitled “Whatever happened to Primal Therapy” and a long and thorough story written by me detailing the suicides especially but also the pretense versus the reality, the overblown claims versus the mostly pitiful results. Also a proper thinking about WHY all this happened. WHAT exactly happened?
That’s it for now I could get into other stuff but it would probably would get deleted. Bitch!
Quote:- “Jack at the helm the bogus philosopher things should just along as they have for the last 40 years for a while more anyway.” If this Jack was at the helm Money would be gone the next day … then would be a thing of the past and NOTHING would be the same.
Another Quote same passage:- “I am disgusted at gretchen’s shenanigans and though as I said I am not a ‘vengeful’” Ohhhhh! YES YOU ARE and many know it. and YOU are forever showing it.
Yet another quote:- “Whatever happened to Primal Therapy” and a long and thorough story written by me detailing the suicides especially but also the pretense versus the reality, the overblown claims versus the mostly pitiful results. Also a proper thinking about WHY all this happened. WHAT exactly happened? That’s it for now I could get into other stuff but it would probably would get deleted. Bitch!” It’s not surprising that someone that FAILED AND FAILED MISERABLY would want to write to the LA Times and get some vengeance for his failing.
Jack
This thing of craving to be brain washed I am sure people have not noticed as well they are too busy bathing in the brain washing but there was an interesting upshot from that debate the other night. HIllary mentioned the Venezualan maid (VM) don’t know her name and how Trump supposedly ‘fat shamed’ her and made her life some kind of living hell and how she still has Trump PTSD maybe a new ‘illness’ call it TPTSD involving I dunno trouble with food or something. Well it seems this lady is not all that Clinton potrayed was even involved in murder hanging around with big time drug dealers and so on. But what I think is more interesting Clinton’s people had IN ADVANCE co-ordinated elaborate ‘stories’ ready to go in yes the Guardian (I felt it was just becoming Huffington Post light) the NY Times (what a surprise they now compare Trump to Hitler constantly, Trump might be honored but he is sadly not so well informed) and that bastion of high minded thought Cosmopolitan. Their story had her clothed (partly?) in an American flag. So when Clinton drops her name at the end of the debate that is the OK these stories already pre written can now go ahead. To me this is like a major scandal in that it shows the major media activly working with Clinton and of course basically spreading lies. But people here for example swallow all this junk you will have David going on about Trump’s ‘lies’ meanwhile the Guardian that bastion of something or other is doing stuff like this. I have to give Americans great credit they have a kind of native scepticism when it comes to the media unlike people here who are like babes in the woods for lies like tell me lies please lie to me. I suppose that is why after 40 years they are similar about PT maybe those suicides never happened maybe it just this crazy Patrick saying this. Gretchen or Barry never told me about that so it must not be true. That’s where maybe a good LA Times story or even better a Rolling Stone story might come in. But even there I might have to very careful like never mention any kind of Jewish angle…………..keep real quiet about that for any kind of journalist ‘credibility’ you have to keep your eyes closed so some real important connections………….
Maybe that’s my problem I was not close enough to my mom to ask her to ‘tell me sweet little lies’ maybe I misunderstand everything being told sweet little lies is the nature of life. Still not so much sweet about the lies I am talking about………
People
On a bit of a lighter note and I can imagine Guru you might the first 0:10 seconds here pretty funny I did. And note to gretchen maybe you don’t have to waste your time seeing if there is anything ‘un-kosher’ here at least I am saying there is not. Though you ‘standards’ seem to be expanding the piece I put on yesterday by Kevin Barrett as far as I know never mentioned what cannot be mentioned it kept to current affairs. But apparantly you found that ‘un-kosher’ too so will you now stop your sessions if someone says something unkosher and will they get their money back if you do. BTW all this guy is saying is Hillary has major health problems even THAT is now not cool Dr Drew had his show cancelled because he mentioned it and this guy Michael Savage also had his radio show cancelled for the same reason. Does this sound like the beginning of a ‘police state’ I’m afraid it does and it does NOT come from Trump it comes from the other one. So all you people talking about Trump’s ‘lies’ pull your heads out. Hillary Clinton is a living walking ‘hoax’ it is going to work maybe but I still hope not
> Larry,
> it sounds like your former boss enjoyed the day with you, and reaches out to become friends outside of work as well.
> If you like her too as a person, it might be a nice enrichment of your life, she sounds like having a good social circle, and I know how much friends like that enrich mine.
> my life opposed to theirs is a bit like what you describe, but that does not really matter.
> I am staying with them, with my two cats right now, as there is renovation work being done in my place, and I feel so welcome here, and none of us knows exactly how many days my stay will still have to last, and it is fine.
> hope you can accept and enjoy that new friendship, M
I don’t like her as a person, Margaret. A scientist needs to network with other scientists. She normally doesn’t like to network. She’s not confident enough in herself, She prefers to go it alone. In my opinion she’s an average or mediocre scientist, who has slogged out a career in a workman like fashion, never breaking new ground with novel ideas or discoveries, whose intuitive and logical thinking tends to be flawed. I’ve saved her butt many times by figuring out how to make her projects work, or by figuring out how to analyse her data and I’ve offered conclusions that she’s argued with me against but eventually accepted or at least considered my insight. I enjoy the intellectual challenges of my job and she’s come to trust my abilities and let me grow into them more and more. As work partners we complement each other in that she interacts with the public, with bureaucracy, applies for funding, writes reports and speaks at conferences, all things I’m weak at and don’t like to do. I’ve had to endure her as a work partner, as a boss, because I like my job and the other people I work with, . She uses bluster and bossiness to cover her insecurities. I understand her insecurities and try not to get into struggles with her, so she’ll feel safe with me and show a little more human side with me. It’s been stressful. She’s not someone who I normally would want as a friend.
How is it for you Margaret, being out of your home and dependent on the kindness of friends? Yes, real friends enrich my life a lot.
Yesterday evening I found myself alone at my house for the first time in a number of days.
I started feeling lousy maybe partially because of being alone and also because when I’m with people I’m distracted from whatever is bothering me.
I sat down to read some stuff on the internet for relaxation, but then soon cruised to porn sites,
abusive ones. For some reason I’m sometimes attracted to a fantasy of being abused in one way or another. I connect it with how I was treated by my mother. It’s huge and keeps coming back
no matter how many times I make that connection.
Very soon though I went to Youtube to put on some music that helps with feelings.
Sure enough it worked.
There were some angry feelings relating to my mother and then it turned over to sadness.
I cried about my grandmother, which is another new area for me. The crying seems to be getting more specific. It was about her leaving me too. She was someone who I had but as she moved further into old age she seemed to somewhat forget the connection we had. She had no clue neither about what I went through with my mother. I needed more from my grandma too, but it didn’t happen. I think the adults around me thought I didn’t need much because I didn’t ask for it, or demand it. But that wasn’t true at all. It was exactly the opposite.
Phil
Phil, it sounds like the old niggling feeling of having your young needs thwarted wants to have its day as you seek out that familiar abuse on the web. Good that you could give-in to it.
Music brings up feelings in me also; it so works.
S
Amazing, Donald Trump apparently was up early this morning 3:00 AM tweeting about the beauty queen “issue”. Encouraging people to go look at her sex tape, to try to bring down her character. Seemingly not realizing what this shows about his own character.
Unbelievable election season; it’s so hard to imagine him in the white house and that a lot of people still want him there.
If you’re into that you might want to read this article from 2015 which is about interviews Trump gave to Howard Stern in the early 2000’s. The recorded interviews are there in the article. Here’s a quote revealing trump to be of nature’s true noblemen:
Daniel, I read that article ….Trump is a real sleaze bag.
He’s been helping to keep that beauty queen story going the last 4 days, probably driving his advisers nuts, and greatly damaging his chances with the pool of undecided voters. A very inept politician to have such a large following. I hope his campaign completely self destructs.
Phil
I may be wrong, Patrick, but I don’t think deleting some of your writings in this blog will ignite a constitutional crisis, nor will it mark the beginning of the end for western civilization.
But I do wish you would take those ideas to the LA times or Rolling Stone, for two reasons. First, there too you might encounter editorial standards, responsibility and accountability that have become so foreign for you. I don’t know if they will publish you but they may write about you. As a matter of fact in a way they already have. Here’s a quote in that article, from Andrew Anglin, editor of the Daily Stormer Neo-Nazi website:
The second, more important reason why I wish you’d present your ideas to the LA times or Rolling Stone is I that turning you gripes back against the PI may lead you right to where it all started, or in the immortal words of T.S Elliot, with which I’m sure you’re familiar:
Daniel, I agree one hundred percent with your comments. Patrick, I told you before I’m am not impressed with your threats and I assume you know what level you have to have sunk to when you threaten me or anyone else . Ending your comments by calling me a bitch is the ultimate weakness and reveals a great deal about you. I will tell you now that should you speak to any other woman here that way I will ask you to leave permanently. I, like Daniel, encourage you to write any article you want to write and submit it where ever you would like. I would be happy to forward you all of your blog comments and the subsequent responses for you to attach to your article. As for your upset that I have taken down some of your comments well, I find the whole thing incredibly dishonest. You know exactly why I have removed the things I have and feigning innocence is completely disingenuous. If you have a question about why a particular post was removed, you can ask and I will repost long enough for you to see what the issue is before removing it again. I assume you could simply check your sent file for those answers however. You seem to think this is only a Jewish issue. You are free to post one of your homophobic or rascist rants and you will see it removed as well. Honestly I think the whole thing is pretty phony because frankly I sense you love every moment of it. You are stuck in a sick loop of posting inappropriate things, being asked to stop and finally having your things removed. You then cry foul and whine that your freedoms are being toyed with. This from someone who has no concern about anyone else’s freedom. You go on and on about everyone else being close minded and you may be the most close minded person I have ever known. It is you that is walking in lock step….literally. You post things that you assert are facts while having zero evidence and no part of you finds it odd that you do little or no research as to your claims. You said you were posting links to this Morris guy because you wanted someone to hear the lunacy he had to say. So send them a link . You don’t need to do that here except that it keeps you in that loop you are so comfortable with. I have left your vitriol about me, the Institute, Jack, Psychology and any number of things posted for all to see but I am drawing the line at Anti- Semitism, Homophobia and Rascism. Maybe I should add a lack of respect for women to the list. Surely you have other things you can talk about. Gretchen
> Larry,
> it is a nice experience.
> they are very warm and also real, and have a good sense of humour.
> so I and my cats are having a good time here really.
> the work seems to go at a good pace in my own place so I might be able to be back there tomorrow!
> then of course a lot of cleaning up remains to be done, and I will have to wait until the middle of next week for the green light from the inspection to start up the hot water and heating system.
> yesterday I actuallly got into some feeling here, discussing with my girlfriend issues about my former drug use and childhood.
> she seemed to have an impression I still felt very positive about the effect of some drugs. it seemed a bit of a difference of interpretation of what I said, so it took us a while to sort things out, and at some point i mentioned how my old feelings about my dad actually gave my life a bad turn by making me seek for affection with the wrong guys, and when i summed up in a brief sentence how big the impact on my life was, I became very emotional suddenly, about to cry and then she gave me a hug and said she was glad she had been able to express herself, while me too, I felt more relaxed afterwards.
> although the warmeest welcoming place you can imagine, being away from home with the cats by ‘force’ and staying over for several days unavoidably raises some stress of course, while at the same time I feel very very lucky with this shelter and support.
> also the cats have settled in very well now on their upper floor, playing around and sleeping on the back of my bed at night.
> M
Daniel,
you made me reflect on a difference, I was raised a catholic originally, but now I would not call myself a catholic when people would ask, i might just mention as a child briefly I had that kind of upbringing.
but maybe the Jewish people have, as I can imagine I would possibly have in the same situation, a preference to keep coming up for their roots as they have been attacked so often.
it is like standing your ground so to say, is that true?
sorry if I am wrong or ‘god forbid’ this triggers an avalanche of Patricks comments again, I definitely hope not.
just interested about this difference, like Jewish seems not only to refer to a religion but there seems more attached to it, a feeling of understandable loyalty maybe, M
Margaret,
If I understand your question correctly then I think the complexity lies with the dual meaning of the word Jewish. ‘Jewish’ refers both to a religion (Judaism) and a type of nationhood and ethnicity. So, a person, such as me for example, can be Jewish although he isn’t a practicing religious Jew because he’s still a Jew by nationhood and ethnicity.
Being a people is a matter of self-determination, usually following some common identity and history. It’s true that many Jews tend to hug or even cling to their Jewish identity and history, perhaps because they’ve been denied a territorial base very soon after they have established themselves as a nation, in a nation state, in the ancient near east (so-called Land of Israel), and exiled to the four winds. Being religious they couldn’t really completely assimilate into their new societies and so always kept a Jewish identity. It’s actually quite remarkable that that identity survived under those conditions.
And of course there were always those who saw them as foreigners, and reminded them that much, in those new kingdoms they were exiled to. That too kept Jews together as people and identity.
Not sure this answers your question.
Daniel: If I have it correct, the anti Judaism (I prefer that to antisemitism, since Palestinians are Semites, yeah?) goes back a long time and I have no idea for the reason, but I do understand that many countries did not allow Jews to own land and therefore the only way to make a living was by becoming merchants and they become very adept at it.
That might well have caused even more resentment.
Our human (neurotic) tendency to dwell on differences creates the very opposite of that most of us wish for:- peace.
Not sure how we might overcome any of it, other than a radical re-think of our purpose in life.
I would be very interested if anyone had any ideas how we might bring that about. I feel it would have to be simple, otherwise we’d get into the meaning or words again that I call “the word game”.
Jack
Talk
That’s a pretty shallow, hardly-any-thought-put-in-it-at-all observation. I’m getting tired of your dim witted lame brained thinking. Perhaps it’s not your fault that you are the way you are, but I can’t stand your gibberish any more and you have hardly any redeeming qualities. I’d hoped you might see some light eventually, but I feel myself giving up. You are the most disappointing person I ever met.
Larry, I completely agree. And why are we subjected to all this? What is the point?
I’d like an answer to that.
Phil: quote:- “…….. And why are we subjected to all this? What is the point? I’d like an answer to that.” Having know Patrick for more than anyone currently on this blog; I feel I have some sense of where he’s coming from. The first point (just my take I grant) is the anger now morphed into bitterness, about not getting what he hoped to get out this therapy that to a large extent, he was invested in; by reading the book, coming here, and paying out a lot of money. I get the feeling it was a huge disappointment for him.
The second part is having created and business with a partner and then the partner leaving, he was now totally in control and one might say ‘became a dictator’, running it. In that sense he was used to having things his own way. I did suggest to him at one point that he turned it all over to an employee run company, which I felt would have relieved him of the 17 hours a day, 7 days a week. He rejected that idea, even though I tried hard to convince him there were many benefits to both the company and himself. It was during this time (30 years), I feel many personality characteristics; set in place.
However, I do need to also say, just as I feel I knew him very well, (working with and for him most of that time), he also knew me well also.
My strongest feeling is Patrick NEVER saw the difference between appropriately expressing his feelings, and acting them out. I contend, that still apply to this day
I hope Phil, that gives you a possible answer. Of course, I also need to say that I could well be wrong.
Jack
Jack, Patrick
OK, but I’d like to hear it from Patrick. This Jewish question doesn’t seem relevant on a personal level, so why go on and on about it? If it is that important, why rant about it here? There must be more effective places to do that.
What do you want from us? Do you just want an argument? You want us to disagree and forever argue with you? If so, why not move on to less contentious topics
that won’t get deleted.
Phil
If I had to pay to be part of this blog I’d cancel my subscription. I can’t wait til I’m confident enough that I don’t need it any more and won’t have to put up with Patrick’s nonsense.
I
> Phil,
> what is that beauty queen issue about?
> haven’t seen much news lately here except Belgian politicians arguing endlessly..
> M
Margaret,
This issue came up in the presidential debate. Donald Trump has in the past been involved with holding beauty pageants. A former beauty queen came forward, or was encouraged to come forward by the democrats, because of the bad treatment she received from Trump. Trump called her a “fat pig” and a slob, and other things, still doing so now. Even though the photos hardly show her as fat, but of course, even if she was, that’s outrageous.
Democrats brought it up to show Trump’s attitude towards women which should already have been evident from the campaign the last year. That the former beauty queen is Hispanic also helps Clinton with that important group of voters.
Phil,
I share your amazement of how Trump has so may supporters yet would clearly be so dangerously incompetent as president, He failed to be coherent many times during the debate, falling back on weak, inarticulate and petty attacks on Hilary Clinton, who in contrast was clear, firm and presidential. In fact, I admired her ability to respond appropriately to Trumps’ attacks without losing control. It amazed me that Trump had no ability to restrain himself and be composed. Despite his total lack of political experience, would he not have had decades of practice in public speaking? His comments regarding the beauty queen were adolescent and mean-spirited. Apart from which are there not so many other way more important issues a presidential candidate could have taken from the debate to discuss and elaborate on during the last 4 days?
Donal
Donal: I too felt the very same about the debate and Trump. It is my feeling that he’s put the Republicans into a more desperate state than ever. I get the impression that some that previously supported him are now running away from their support.
I also feel that he, Trump, is now embarrasing the United States that such a person could even have got to a position of being a candidate for the presidency.
The only explanation I can see is that there are a lot of angry men here in the US and that Trump is also and angry old man, spoiled brat, and like may of the rich, feel they have some right over others.
Jack
Correction:- I wrote:- “and like may of the rich, feel they have some right over others.”. It should have read:- “and like many of the rich, feel they have some right over others.”
Jazck
In light of all the talk about Trump and so many have called him a narcissist, I thought this lady’s videos on the subject might interest some here. She gives advice to people who are in a relationship with narcissists. I have seen it in my own family. I think my mom suffered from it because of her terrible childhood–I loved her anyway and always thought she might break like a little girl.
I wonder what this lady would say about Trump. There is always fear of abandonment and lack of early connection at the core that drives that behavior she says.
S
Sylvia
This lady identifies abandonment as a kind of universal core issue people have. That seems pretty accurate to me. If you want to classify people, the narcissist type as described, seems very selfish and self centered. How was it for you having a mother with some of these tendencies?
Phil
Phil
Many times I felt protective of my mom growing up. So much would upset her. She took good care of us but her temper would scare me at times. I remember sometimes sitting outside on the back steps and paralyzed with fear from some rant my mom had just had about something. My dad on his way in from his workshop in the garage would pass me by and give a little smile and nod as he went into the house. I really wanted him to say–go do something, find something nice to do. Many times I felt like a bump on a log, just sit and do nada. I remember a lot just feeling immobilized.
Sylvia,
It doesn’t sound like your dad was very helpful
Phil,
My dad does sound passive. He probably wondered what he had gotten himself into. He did a few times stand up to my mom. He no doubt harbored resentment in the family dynamics. We would see it come out at family gatherings where he’d make a joke or slight criticism of mom. We’d be surprised and I think he was too that his real feelings slipped out.
S
Sylvia,
I can relate to that. I think my father was also rather passive and didn’t protect me from my mother’s craziness.
When my own kids were young I would sometimes intervene in their favor against my wife’s criticisms or orders. Because I maybe would feel them to be too harsh. Maybe reactions coming from own history. I rarely or maybe never got orders from my father. Only suggestions or requests.
Phil
Yes Phil,
My dad never yelled at me or told me what to do.
When I babysat for my brother’s first child he always wanted to make sure that nothing scared him, like falling down or if the dog scared him he would give him a little laugh and reassure him. I think it was because we all were so scared growing up.
S
Random thoughts. It occurs to me that a person needs to have some inner strength to do this therapy. And outside supports. As my all-my-life model of my reality crumbles, as I wake up and see that I never had a connection with my parents that I so much needed to believe that I did, as I see how alone I’ve been but never wanted to see, as I feel how much I need their love and need to love them but it will never happen, as I see and feel that it’s been an awful mistake the way things turned out for them and me but they are dead now and it will never be fixed, as I collapse under the weight of the truth I wonder how will I carry on alone without the love I needed especially when I embark on a new life of retirement. It feels crucial that I somehow find strength to carry on, and important that I do have some family and some friends who draw me out and keep me going in the present. I think that is why the primal community, group, the therapists, phone sessions and this blog are very important supports for those of us in a no-man-land of trying to build a new life from one that is in shambles.
Well, Larry, as usual, I never know quite what to say in response to your post(s).
I guess my first response is always….oh thank you so much for sharing.
When any one of my friends or acquaintances or even a stranger shares their true feelings…as best they can at the moment…. in my presence….I feel that it is the greatest honor that they can or could possibly bestow on me.
But it also brings up a much deeper feeling that I can’t put into words. I don’t cry, but my eyes water and I have a burning feeling in my upper chest and a deep feeling of irreversible loss. “Winner’s tears” I think is a term that I have heard to describe these types of occurrences. You finally get something that you dearly needed in your past in order to be able to grown straight and tall emotionally. And now you can finally feel a little of the loss that was in your past because you now have been given the ingredient that was not there in your past emotional …meals.
I had so wished that my mother could have felt safe enough around me to be honest with me about her true feelings. She almost did one time. And If I had not immediately formed certain iron clad Intellectual beliefs…..ah but if ‘if’s and ands were pots and pans’……..
So….thank you Larry…for so often giving me what I need to feel and connect with very old needs and losses. Linda, from Texas
Thanks Linda. It’s nice to hear from you. I’m glad we didn’t lose you.
Since I moved here 22 years ago I’ve been a member of the Nature Society but participated in the outings only a few times. This Friday and Saturday they held their annual Fall Meet, which I have never attended. My friend is the new President of the Society. Since I will be retiring from work and will need a new community to replace my work community, I decided I should attend this Fall Meet. My friend said I could sit with him at the Saturday evening banquet. That helped give me courage to go. I dreaded being all alone, a stranger among the 100 or so attendees.
I bucked up my courage to go to the Friday evening presentations, telling myself it will only be a few hours and then I can be safe at home again, alone. My friend, being President, was very busy with other people. We only had time to say Hi and he apologized for not being able to spend much time with me. I said no problem. I wanted to be grown up and to mingle. So I tried mingling. Wouldn’t you know it. I ran into 4 people that evening who I know from other organizations/clubs that I belong to, and I had nice conversations with each of them. Also I talked with three ladies manning three of the display booths. They were very friendly. These were nice people. I shied away from who I knew were the elites of the Society, the stars who I knew helped keep this Society running over decades and who made major award winning contributions to nature conservation. I didn’t feel anywhere near adequate to be near them or noticed by them.
This evening I showed up 1/2 hour early to mingle before the banquet. I ran into a couple of friends again from last night, and we talked at length. One of them I know her casually from the ball room dancing club. She offered that I could sit with her and her friends at a table for the banquet. I wanted to take up her offer, but checked with my friend the now President and he hoped I’d sit with him so I decided I would. Soon it felt like a mistake.
He had so many responsibilities and so much running around to do that evening that he hardly had time to eat and I hardly had him for company. What’s worse, I was taking up a space at the table at the front reserved for the elites. I was sitting face to face with the guest speaker for the evening. I felt so uncomfortable in their aura, I wanted to shrink to nothing. Amongst them I was nobody. I made no contributions to conservation, except financial. They all knew each other and why they were at that table. They didn’t know who I was or why I was at that table, the only table reserved for the stars of the evening.
Finally I shared my discomfort with them, and that I was only at that table because of my friendship with the President. They understood. They became so friendly to me. They opened conversation with me that put me at ease and able to participate in conversation with them. I had the best seat in the house to watch the slide show and hear the guest speaker. God these people were friendly.
I began to realize that the lady beside me, who I had first talked to at a display booth on Friday evening, had a pretty high profile in the Society and was a mover and shaker. But so friendly. She told me of an exciting project that would be starting up in the Spring that I might be interested to be part of when I retired. Bingo! It did sound interesting and something I’d want to do if only I wasn’t too afraid.
These people were so nice to me. They opened up to me as if I was SOMEONE, in a way that I’ve not been accustomed to for most of my life and their friendliness kind of hurt. As soon as the formal program was over I had to leave, not wanting to risk that these nice people would discover something ugly about me and shut me out. I quickly returned to my safe recluse, home alone.
Life could be so much richer if I could more easily let people in. I lost so much richness in my life by having to keep people out.
I’m glad I went.
A few more thoughts about the election/debate etc. This thing of the Venezuelan beauty queen a lot of people say Trump should not be talking about stuff like this, one problem Hillary is the one that brought it up and also the one who have ‘stories’ about it ready to go in the Guardian, NY Times and Cosomopolitan. So there is the ‘standards’ of the vaunted ‘free press’ in the West first of all running a nonsense story but worse co-ordinating with Clinton to set a ‘trap’ for Trump and then ‘blame’ him as he falls into it. Who is really the ‘worst’ here I would say Clinton
This thing about the press also bring to my mind what I consider the most important story of this year and mostly the not told important story – the many ‘hoaxes’ perpetrated on a gullible public Paris twice, Brussels, Orlando, Nice, Munich. These above all imo were ‘media events’ or ‘press events’ since if we go with the idea they were not ‘real’ in that most likely few if any died in any of these ‘events’ well then their reality is just a reality in the press or a ‘media reality’ Now and excuse me if this is getting in the weeds too much but the most ‘concrete’ proof to me of the hoax nature of these events is the SAME photographer/journalist was there to ‘document’ BOTH Nice and Munich (Richard Gutjahr) and so was his daughter who ‘live tweeted’ Munich…………..well this is where the plot thickens a bit it seems his daughter has met and been at several of Hillary Clinton’s events. So…………..and I even hesitate to go there but it actually starts to seem likely there may be connections between Clinton and these events
It makes sense Clinton’s almost only real ‘support’ IS the media and she virtually has all of them so called “Left” Right she has the neo-con Zionist war faction and also the so called Center. To me as I said before she is a ‘hoax’ candidate a walking and talking hoax. She supposedly ‘sounds’ good in the so called debate supported by a biased moderator and of course a bough and sold ‘press’ that declares her a winner. Even purely on the basis of her health………..after all she is interviewing for a job above all is it cool to hide her in-numerable health problems. Of course not this is a serious dishonesty and I predict this aspect may well come back to bite her or us if she gets elected. I would expect people here to be a bit different than the normal sheeple influenced by big media but it does not seem to be the case. Oh well………..just my take.
There was a great debate skit on Saturday Night Live last night. It’s true that Hillary purposely trapped Trump with the beauty queen story, and I thought that was well done.
The media mostly does favor Clinton and yet I believe that haven’t been following
through on a responsibility to show the ridiculous nature of Trump’s candidacy.
He has been fooling people into to believing he is a serious person and that is the real “hoax” being perpetrated. He is just a narcissist looking for attention any way he can get it, and he has been quite successful at that.
Phil
I am in Heathrow Airport waiting to go back to the US and I have to say I do ‘admire’ Americans for though of course heavily brain washed they do have this independant streak. Here in Ireland and Europe in general they seem much better ‘behaved’ and much more likely to believe what’s in the papers and what their ‘betters’ tell them. It seems to me Trump might get about 5% of the vote over here and to me at least there is this kind of smug attitude they know better than these ‘stupid Americans’ I suffered from that myself quite a bit but I see things quite a bit different now. Americans are almost innately suspicious of their Government and the press and good for them. To me they have many reasons as they know deep down they have been lied to about all the important things stuff like JFK’s assasination and 9/11. They might not know how exactly but they ‘know’. Over here they do not have this history or at least that they know about but now we are in a kind of ‘global media’ world and I am quite dissapointed in the kind of ‘lock step’ feeling you get here nothing like Nazis lol mostly this weak liberal consensus that smothers everything. Like all ‘intelligent’ people believe in vaccines, global warming theory and anyone else is just some ‘irrational crazy’ person like Trump (or me)…………….who suffers from ‘racism’ or ‘homophobia’ or ‘hate’ or ‘anti semitism’. These are powerful buzz words to shut people up ……………..
Boy, I sure hope that upon entry to the US you won’t be asked if you have anything to declare
Daniel:- that’s the best laugh I’ve had in a while. It’s a classic.
Jack
Daniel – that is a good one I have to admit. You do have a subtlety about you………………I said I had nothing to declare and they seemed to take me at my word.
Larry,
That sounds like good connections and possibilities coming from the event
you attended.
Phil
> Daniel, thanks, that was a very clear reply, interesting to read.
> Margaret
Jack,
You raise a very interesting question: what exactly are the factors that have allowed Trump to make it this far in a presidential race? I have been reading the opinions of columnists for over a year now, as with the American politics well as keeping upand still do not have a firm grasp of what exactly occurred. You did provide your answer, of course, which may well be a major factor. The most common general theory is a failure of the republican part leading to stay in touch with the struggles of those Americans who never felt the benefit of economic recovery. Also, US wages have generally lagged behind the cost of living since the 80s, leading to increased payloads of debt necessary to maintain a middle class lifestyle. The working poor have always been at the thin edge of the wedge: multiple low-paid menial jobs to sustain an economically sub-standard life.
I am not sure of an answer but it is a probably these chronic economic factors combined with the dubious belief that extreme changes are necessary to make progress. Also, there is the belief that a complete outsider is not tainted by beltways politics and connections and also the belief that an entrepreneur can put the economy back in shape.
With regard to Trump, I think these beliefs are ill-advised.
Donal
Donal: One of the great insights I gained form learning English history was that it set out to subliminally invoke in the population at large that we the British were the greatest nation ever, invented everything, and created the greatest political system ever devised.
On arriving here in the US I very quickly learned that Americans, least-ways the while ones, had the very same notion about their country. I would not be surprised to learn that many other countries follow the same pattern. Sadly, for the British they had to accept, reluctantly I feel, that they were not longer the super power after WW2. Yep! it took that long to figure that one out.
What both political parties tend to do here is promote their brand. As I see it, if CHANGE is what the country is beginning to feel it wants, I tend to feel that stems from a subliminal fear that their time is nearing an end. So radical change is a great and semi convincing slogan. However, the real difficulty is that IF radical change were to take place, little of what already exist would be gone in no time. It’s a sort of:- yeah! we want change, but only enough change, to maintain that, we hope is our best. That is a contradiction in terms.
Donald Trump, falls right into this very basket, and is arrogant enough to not even be aware of what he is actually doing. If he were to gain any real power her would operate from what occurs to him at any given moment in time. Now the Republican party bosses, did hope that he would just be a one day wonder and got the shock of their lives when his arrogance and belligerence took off.
As I see the problem the very 30 second TV ads for all products and especially political products, is way too superficial to actually give anyone any in deep idea as to what the larger picture is. We are all of us guilty to a certain extent of that same factor. It for this very reason that I favor the abolition of that the keeps the system intact. Which in the end; nothing really changes. Barack Obama came in playing the “Change” candidate and even his health care plan to my way of thinking, was not really such a great idea and left much to be desired.
In the end it has all to do with language and what each of perceive as to what is ACTUALLY meant in the use of a particular word or phrase. I am particularly guilty of just that myself.
Jack
Jack,
I don’t think massive immediate changes are possible, no matter what any presidential candidate proposes, without major disruptions and failures of the system. Take a look at health care, for example. There are very large private insurance companies which employ many thousands of people (about 500,000 according to the internet) and they provide payment for healthcare services.
We could transition to a single payer system run by the government, kind of like medicare for everyone, but that would take many years to implement, in my opinion, even if everyone would favor that policy.
A very good simple change, if it could be achieved, would be to allow the presidential candidates of the Green party, Libertarian party, and maybe other parties to participate in the debates. That would mean a much more open discussion of ideas, and those additional parties would get exposure and respect.
But, unfortunately, our two major parties have a lock on the electoral system and all the money that goes with it.
Phil
Phil: I feel in some ways you are making my point. Real radical change is something most say they would like, BUT should it take place would be appalled and wish to reverse it back to what was. The notion that we can make the system more fair is to me a myth. Laws and law makers, have been playing around with making the system more just and fair for centuries … but failing to define exactly what is just and what is fair. In the end it’s all a word game, going significantly no-where. Least-ways no-where in any radical sense.
The cliche, and it has been used at retreats, it to “get outside the box” Few if any EVER get outside any box. Most of us are stuck in the box of our making and calling IMO. I stated some time ago that climbing out of my box leaves to realize that I am in yet another box and then endeavoring to climb out of that one only to find myself in yet another, and on and on ad infinitum.
What’s the solution? The reality; I do not know, and my guess is that no-one else knows either. We all of us, as I see it, have solutions for everyone else, BUT ourselves. What a paradox … if that is right idiom.
Jack
This guy I heard of through morris108 and this is morris talking to him. I found it interesting as a take on the US elections quite far from the daily sniping and point scoring also interesting as a Muslim perspective we hardly ever get their perspective even thought people are yakking about them all the time. This sheik believes we are on the brink of a hugh war WW3 if you want to call it that basically a war against Russia. I am a bit more optimistic than that but at the same time the signs are there the constant demonization of Putin and Russia and trailing that a bit the demonization of Trump. One of Trump’s big ‘sins’ is the fact he does not want to antagonize Russia and sees no need for ramping up this aggression against him and this sheik thinks that is the main reason the ‘powers that be’ cannot abide the idea of Trump being president. For sure what I have seen of the US media this year is worse than anything I have seen before in that their bias for Hillary is so out in the open. Anyway this is short but I felt well worth thinking about.imo……………..Larry instead of saying that I put no thought into this kind of stuff I think it would be more accurate to say I put too much thought into it…………..
Patrick, you see the sun rise in the east and set in the west and decide the Earth is the centre of the universe and everything in the heavans revolves around it. You will not look at any other evidence that comes to a different conclusion, and you declare that anyone who does is brainwashed.
What follows is an excerpt of recent commentary by Gwyn Dyer:
“Some truly stupid things were said and done in the first years after the 9/11 attacks in 2001.
But a new generation of Western soldiers has finally grasped how terrorism works.
The terrorists, of course, knew it all along.
First, it is the weapon of choice for the weak, because it does not require a large army, sophisticated weapons or a lot of money.
Second, without a large army, sophisticated weapons or a lot of money, terrorists must not engage in frontal assaults and standup battles against powerful opponents (usually governments) who do have them.
Terrorism, therefore, can succeed only by tricking those more powerful forces into doing things that really serve the terrorists’ purposes.
What is the ultimate goal of Islamic State and similar jihadi groups? Obviously, it is to come to power in various parts of the Muslim world. If they ever manage to become a government they may develop further ambitions, but taking power is the crucial first step.
The terrorists do not have mass support in their own countries, or they would already be in power. In order to build that mass support — it doesn’t have to be majority support, but they do need a lot of people behind them — they need a villain that will push people into their arms.
That villain can be either the government that rules the country, or a foreign power that invades, but in either case it must be provoked into behaving very badly. Only torture chambers or cluster bombs will make the mass of the population so desperate that they turn to the revolutionaries for help.
To get the torture and the bombing going, the target government must become so frightened and enraged that it starts using them on a large scale. That’s what the terrorism is for, to make governments overreact and behave very badly.
Terrorism is a technique used by ruthless but intelligent leaders with coherent strategies and clear political goals, and the violence is never “senseless.” Bin Laden’s strategy in carrying out the 9/11 attacks, for example, was to provoke the United States into invading Muslim countries. The invasions gave a huge boost to the popularity of the jihadi movement.
Terrorism cannot succeed without overreaction. So ask yourself which of the American presidential candidates is more likely to overreact to a terrorist provocation? Now you know for whose victory the terrorists are praying.
Gwynne Dyer is an independent journalist whose articles are published in 45 countries.”
Larry,
I think overreacting in this way to a terrorist attack is also popular. Sentiments among voters support hitting the terrorists hard to make them pay for what they’ve done. Politicians have to pay attention to that too, in order to stay in power
Phil
Larry: I liked and read the quote you made and a lot of it is sort of right on, from an outside ones-self view. My take is:- that the hate and anger ALL goes back to mommy and/or daddy BUT most are totally unaware of anything in those unconscious regions. In psychological terms is called “transference”. IF ONLY there was a way to open that unconscious up, without the necessity of therapy. Sadly, as I see it, there isn’t.
Only Primal therapy goes there, and that takes time effort and money.
Jack
OK Gretchen you’ve done it again. Pisses me off actually I felt what I had written was pretty factual and even handed. You are such a dope and such a clannish tool or it is fool. Will you delete what this guy has to say do you need to watch it for signs of ‘bad thinking’ You really disappoint me I honestly did not believe you could be such an idiot.
So
So the ‘wise sheik’s’ comments were deleted also. How weird. How ‘out in the open’ the bias is. And how there is no shame about it. Pretty much like the worst of conventional society. Prmal therapy is run by ‘islamophobes’ lol. Gretchen maybe just like you have no time for ‘anti semites’ I have no time of ‘islamophobes’ if you want to toss buzz words around. Actually I don’t like to use words like ‘islamobphobes’ it is very jargonish just trying to make a point.
I think what has happened is a lot of us have been turned into Patrick-phobes because of the way you can’t give this stuff a rest. That is the main issue here, as I see it, not the Middle East, the Jews, or the Holocaust.
Patrick: It seems as though the normally mild-mannered Larry had some surprisingly strong words for you with Phil and Jack lining up in agreement. I wanted to read your response, yet it seems Gretchen removed it due to culturally sensitive content.
Can you share how you replied to Larry, Phil, and Jack in a more sanitized way without the cultural baggage so the writings can pass muster and I would still have my curiosity satiated? Thank you.
Guru – what can I say? I suppose I can try to sum it up there was nothing about the ‘holocaust’ nothing at all it was or it seemed to hinge on this. Are the Jews a ‘persecuted’ race or do they so to speak bring it on themselves. Purely as a matter of logic I would have to go with the second option. I am sure if you even want to approach it in this way primal people sort of understand whatever difficulties we have in an important sense we’bring it on ourselves’. I feel that in my own case appearance maybe notwithstanding even this ‘argument’ here with Gretchen I am sure in many ways I bring it on myself. So I don’t think this is so controversial it’s even obvious I would say. So if it is a ‘deep truth’ about humans on a personal basis why should it not also be true of groups maybe especially a group like the Jews who do hang together very well we might say AS a group.
But Gretchen seems to just think this all ‘hate speech’ or ‘anti semitism’ or something. So as a psychotherapist if she tried to point out recurring patterns in a patient’s life and behavior leading to the conclusion that the patient has sort of brought it all on themselves……………………..is that ‘hate’ speech hatred of the patient in this case. I hardly think so why then does Gretchen has a totally different way of dealing with ‘groups’ of people. If it is a ‘deep truth’ in one arena I don’t think it makes sense to totally forget about it in another arena. Since Jack has proclaimed primal theory to be Unified Field Theory he might like to explain how this works.It seems to me to be a ‘violation’ of the theory.
Quote: “Since Jack has proclaimed primal theory to be Unified Field Theory he might like to explain how this works.It seems to me to be a ‘violation’ of the theory..”
Wow!!!! You’ve left me with an opening that I will gladly take.
But first, a little preamble. Seeming you do realize that you are bringing all this “pissed off with Gretchen” upon yourself. I take it that either you revel (enjoy) being “pissed off” OR you just love to ‘blow your horn’ It seems to me you NEVER take in anything I say to or about you. Sooooooooo!!! let me repeat. You never did fathom the difference between “acting-out” your feelings from the appropriate expression of your feelings. You’re entrenched in the “blame game”. All you need to do is OWN your ‘pissed-off-ness’. Gretchen is responding from her perspective (brilliantly IMO) where as you seem lost even in what you are actually believing in.
Had you just stopped for more than ‘one second’ re-action to your first three weeks therapist and instead of asking “what’s the point?” Thought a little more of what Leslie Pam was asking you. Like Donald Trump, you re-act from ‘off the top of your head’ without any deep thought. I know you feel you’ve got it all figured out, BUT most here, are not convinced; apparently.
The notion in physics of a “Unified Field Theory” stems from the left lobe desire (thinking) that we’ve got to get ‘to the bottom of all things around us’. DO WE ????????? If so why?????? As in many other instances in our human evolution of thoughts (Philosophy if you like), we often find answers in the most unexpected places. I contend (yes that dirty word again), we are looking for that theory that will explain everything. Cases in point are; Copernicus and later Galileo in sorting out what was taking place in the ‘heavens’. The thinkers of the time thought it was all balderdash since to every one it seemed obvious that the world was flat (we couldn’t see the curvature) and that the sun obviously went from east to west, then underneath the flat earth and then did the same the next day.
Both these men just began thinking a little deeper and theorized that:- “Wait a minute …. maybe it the world that is spinning and the sun and everything else (except the planets) was sort of still. Voila … that to these two guys, seemed to be a PERFECT explanation. Except to the likes of the “little old lady” related in Stephen Hawking’s book “A Brief History of time” first paragraph.
My take (for what it’s worth) is that another “voila” moment took place when Danny Wilson, screamed for his dear life … got through it and then declared:- “I’ve done it … I don’t know what … but I can feel”. Janov at that moment hadn’t a clue what had gone on, BUT unlike most he didn’t resort to what he already knew to explain it. He took the trouble, since he’d recorded the incident, and played it over and over again … and SLOWLY a new kind of thinking in him started to take place. He was brilliant enough to try, over and over again to see if he could re-create the same kind of re-action. When he discovered he could, that was enough of a start; and then began (as I have since been informed) to write a diary of what was taking place in his new experiments.
In conclusion:- We’ve been thinking that we could ONLY find the theory of everything (Unified Field Theory), in physics. It turns out that it was not in the science of physics, BUT turned up in psychology of all places. In that area of thought started (ostensibly) by Freud when we started to look into our very own selves (our brains). That elusive organ that beforehand seemed impossible for the brain to look into itself, and figure itself out. Therein was the beginnings of figuring out ourselves … our human-ness… our REAL NATURE.
Patrick; you are stuck in your relative recent past with “What’s the point?” It was at that “point” you missed it ALL. There is another lobe to the brain, that has only in the last 40 odd years, been looked into. In-spite of the fact that “re-living is NOT a new phenomenon. Saul of Taurus did it … but explained it from what he already knew. Thomas of Aquinas did it and did the very same. My brother did it and did the very same. My mother did it and did the same. I too did it … not that this makes me special in any way, BUT I was NOT able to explain it, but did seek to. Then, viola, I read “The Primal Scream”, and suddenly it all fell into place. I just knew. don’t ask me how, what or why. I just knew … and I’ve never gone back to the old thinking …. merely to the OLD feelings.
I hope this epistle (rant if you like) answers your question.
Jack
We have heard all of this before many many time before. You did not say what you meant when you said you did not think Israel had a right to exist. You must know what you meant so why not have a crack at that rather than endlessly playing your “Greatest Hits” or “Greatest Flops” as the case maybe.
I answered the question you asked. If you want my sentiments on the matter of the creation of Israel here it is:- I feel strongly that any peoples stealing land for those already holding it, as in the case of America, Australia, New Zealand and other place that we British took it into our hands to colonize.
My feeling about the British holding Palestine as a protectorate I felt equally was an imposition on those people. As far as I am aware Jews had been living there for centuries … under what conditions I have not the slightest idea. I am willing to be informed.
I am somewhat aware that Zionism wanted a Jewish state and because of biblical writings … those writings I find dubious to say the least … perhaps felt that a homeland in that region was an entitlement.
After the fall of Germany in WW2 and the subsequent revelations and filming of the death camps, was to my way of reckoning; accurate. Had it been a hoax as you state I feel sure someone would have blown the whistle. Such a big lie is not possible in this day and age, contrary to your writing here.
However with the aid of the British and the American, the Zionist, did finally get their homeland … on Palestinian land. It is my feeling that set off the the resentment of the Arab/Muslim states to be angry. I feel in hindsight it was a historical political mis-step … creating the Western Arab/Muslin divide … and continues to this very day. It was further exacerbated with the 1968 preemptive war and following it with the Israel occupation of the whole of Palestine … on the basis (how true I do not know), they, the Israelis, were “in threat” all around them.
It is for me an example of “unintended consequences (effect, effect, effect). Nothing happens in ‘pure’ isolation.
My take, which is yet repeating what I’ve already stated. All state borders are a man made construct that in the very beginning of time, did not exist. It resolves nothing in the final analysis. Could it, should it, have been different. My deep feeling on the Israeli conflict is that it was: on the larger scale of things: a political mistake … in terms of “world peace”.
Finally, I need to say these are just MY notions and feelings,and, as far as I know, no one else’.
We British, to my way of thinking are not neither brilliant , benevolent, nor special. Finally, I do not have any answers for the Jewish peoples. I am not one of them, therefore of a very limited sense of any of their difficulties.
Hope that answers that question of yours.
Jack
Don’t want to start another racist thread, but I read years ago that the original human inhabitants of Australia were gentle, vegetarian giants, who were ‘displaced’ by the present day aborigines. The quotes are because some evidence – the usual knife scrapes on bone etc. – suggested they may have been hunted to extinction. And the only ones who could have done that were the aborigines.
There was a furore over the original research findings as I recall, and now you don’t hear about this any more. A pity, I would have liked confirmation one way or the other.
We are all migrants with a dark past. Just sayin…
Erron: That was something I did not know … so thanks for the info, about the original Australians.
Jack.
Sounds like a lot of waffling and quite unlike the figure you cut at that meeting and others on the question of the Israeli state where you were up front and hopping (mad) to throw your darts at Israel. But like a good hypocrite you are here now and would never ever put yourself in a situation where the primal powers that be would see you in a bad light god forbid as some kind of ‘anti semite’. It might even get you deleted or banned whoever would have thought it.
Patrick: It’s possible. If my comment gets deleted and considered antisemitic or anti Judaism So-be-it. That was all I could say on the matter without it becoming a long long screed.
I am aware that there are many Jews that are not in ‘lock step’ with the Israeli government, either past or present. The overall point I was trying to make, was that I feel national borders are an imposition on total freedom. Along with my other even more of an imposition..
Jack
Patrick: It is highly likeley that at a meeting some years ago I might well have been “hopping mad”. However time has passed and I no long carry that feeling anymore; just the feeling I expressed to you in the ealier comment. Permit me to explain something that seemingly eludes you.
I did a therapy, whereby I have the feeling, and express it rather than act-it-out, as I more then likely, did in the past and thereafter it is resolved and I am no longer “hopping mad” on the question at hand.
You may also be right about my use of the word “appropriate”. I used the word more in order to differnetiate it from the phrase:- “act-out” I did attempt to show the difference in my second book … but it took quite a bit of explaining. I based it on (yep you guessed it) Janov’s meaning of expressing the feeling in such a manner as to resolvde it; rather than carry it around for the rest of my life. I highly recommend the therapy 🙂 🙂 .
The last point was your suggestion that I was:- “But like a good hypocrite you are here now and would never ever put yourself in a situation where the primal powers that be would see you in a bad light god forbid as some kind of ‘anti semite’. It might even get you deleted or banned whoever would have thought it.” Again you may well be right that subliminally I am pandering to the “powers that be”. I will, and have endeavored, to give that some thought. So far it has not occurred to me, it is the case BUT … I’ll continue to consider it.
Jack
“You never did fathom the difference between “acting-out” your feelings from the appropriate expression of your feelings.”
I think this is what Janov means by ‘mock’ primalling. Saw a lot of it in my early therapy. Always looked false and never resolved anything, just led to the well-documented ‘grooving’.
“appropriate” is a funny word to apply to feelings……………appropriate by whose definition. Sounds like a bit of an ‘English Shopkeepers’ notion, appropriate as in just enough but not too much…………..this is the kind of narrowness anyone with a bit of indigenous are left cold by. Is ‘appropriate’ what can be accomodated in the 50 minute hour. Just the usual bunkum. As far as ‘acting out’ that is like calling someone a dirty name like bi polar or compulsive or manic depressive whatever whatever the usual psych jargon., Just the usual head tripping. I wonder if this will be ‘deemed’ ‘appropriate’ from the Head Office of Feeling Central?
Guru – kind of continuing on this a little bit. Below is something I wrote to the blog and decided not to send (that sometimes happens with me though not a lot) anyway it brings Jack into it probably a bad idea as this might well start ANOTHER brush fire or even forest fire with that guy. And he loves the flames! But I put it on here because well to me is shows something of the real people whereas so much on here is ‘trying to look good’. This actually happened and I write about it as accurately as I could and as I remember it
“All this talk about Israel, Jews and so on reminded me of one time I think around 2003 Jack and myself (we were ‘friends’ in those days) went to a film and meeting in Santa Monica about Syria. Syria which was not so much in the news yet but was on unfortunately for it already on the neo-con/Bush/Israeli list of counties to be attacked.
The film was quite beautiful and interesting. It showed Syria as being make up of lots of different groups all co-operating and competing too throughout history. There were Sunni and Shia Arabs and other shades of that, different ethnic groups, Christians also and Jews also. They had all lived together in more or less harmony for many hundreds of years. I remember thinking this is a vulnerable state for a country to be in and hoped it could kind of all hold together.
Then there was a talk afterwards. This was a kind of ‘lefty’ gathering the guy putting it on I ‘knew’ from the counterpunch website his name was Jon Landau and he was Jewish but as I say a ‘lefty’ which also describe I would say both Jack and my general kind of orientation. I liked what I had seen of his writings and actually it was kind of a thrill to meet someone I had been reading for quite a few years.
There was Q&A’s and Jack being a kind of ‘out front’ guy was always very active in a situation like that. Jack stood up and in his ‘dramatic’ kind of way said along these lines “there is much talk here about Israel’s ‘right to exist’ the question is does Israel have a right to exist? (He pauses for dramatic effect) In effect – NO – it doesn’t” and then he continued on a bit about that. Some of the people in the room were not happy about that. I remember one old guy looked to be in his ’90’s stood up and made a point of shuffling out of the room. (in protest). Others followed and there was a kind of strange atmosphere then. Like we thought we were all in agreement and turns out we weren’t.
I am not telling this to tell tales ouf of school about Jack (I have better ones lol)……………but I suppose to show how things can get so polarized here and I feel there is all this kind of ‘piling on’ on me. Gretchen (partly because of her own ‘failures’ as I see it) now seems to want to dump me into some kind of ‘anti-Semitic’ so called well dumpster. And that is one reason I call Jack a PR man……………..the ‘real’ Jack is more the guy at that meeting would people here expect him to say that. I don’t think they would. Not that I think there is anything wrong with him saying that, at the time I thought it was a bit ‘strong’ and a bit ‘provocative’ but as things have unfolded over the years and as I have thought more and read more about it I would agree more about that now. It is not even the issue so much of ‘right to exist’ but if you go into an area you essentially don’t belong in and then start making all kinds of trouble constantly well then any ‘right to exist’ needs to be doubly scrutinized. And IMHO Israel has totally failed that test”
I see what Phil was saying about why do we have to be subjected to so much obvious hate. It does not make for a very safe place to share feelings. I’m thinking of when I first started reading the blog and got up the courage to contribute. I wonder if any potential newbies are dissuaded from coming on board to share vulnerabilities. I viewed this blog as affirmation on how to feel and become well. What has happened to that purpose; it’s been hijacked by ‘act-outs’ and vents, as Jack has said. This isn’t a pile-on of Patrick, it’s just a wish for things to be more simple and nurturing and helpful. I think some have lost heart and left like Tom and Vicki. I miss their input.
Good points Sylvia, thanks for this.
Patrick, Sylia’s comment here made me reflect on something you said to me a while ago that I had a delayed reaction to but which I’ve trawled back up through the blog to retrieve:
“As for yourself David I see a lot of ‘fatigue’ in your thinking. It seems ‘tired’ and conventional and just imbued with this weak Guardian like tea.”
At the time I thought of letting it go and wait for the next time you used your tactics on me, but why bother I’ll say it now. I really resent the sly, mean, underhand way you try to attack my vulnerabilities and not for the first time with this kind of comment. Most people having lived through my experiences would be dead by now and that makes me strong not weak irrespective of the current state of my health. If it was my blog I would kick you off, but I guess the general idea is to give you enough rope to hang yourself. And from what I can see you have been up there swinging for a long time now. I think you would probably like to get kicked off so then can say definitively to anyone who will listen (poor souls) that the Institute censors people. I just hope things come to a head sooner rather than later.
David – it sounds like you have done well with the cards you were given – and good for you on that. Still what I said to you there was/is my honest reaction. A lot of your ‘ideas’ DO seem weak but you are not alone. You fit into a pretty big stream even a mainstream you might say. Fine but I do have the right and the ability to not agree I see the mainstream as pretty disastrous an any level whether it is the environment or the climate or our perpetual wars for perpetual peace whatever. People (here) pretty much know this but at the same time go crazy if it is challenged. Gretchen being a case in point I still dont know why she censored the ‘wise sheik’ but there you go she did/does. I really don’t like this.
Yes. I even thought of starting a forum myself, but felt it would be disloyal or something, not really sure. I’ve run forums before and never did/would tolerate some of the stuff seen on here: it attacks vulnerable people and discourages their sharing, and gives ‘primal outsiders’ a very bad view of what the inside must be like.
Whatever Gretchen feels I think the ‘wise sheik’ is wise
I have enjoyed some documentaries on neanderthals and other homos on youtube. it is interesting that the experts say that man has been a big meater for a long time. i still feel guilty about eating meat though. i am not sure the lament about what certain people speak about on this blog. you are not anywhere near a live blogger oh this blog who cant be stopped from talking. you know you are not going to like what certain people say, so why read what they say. i must be missing something, i am not very people-intelligent. whatever. back to terminator 3.
Hey Otto! I don’t believe it. I just spent over an hour of my time trying to express what you just said [ for the second time here on this blog ] in about one and a half sentences. I actually tried to quote what you said before on the blog….which was basically Just ‘scroll past’ certain people’s entries since you know you are not going to like what they say? You don’t need to ban him from the blog. Ban yourselves from reading his entries! Send the figger to Coventry! Seem s so simple to me too Otto. Are we indeed missing something? Seems to me that all we are missing is having to wade through a lot of verbal muck. I am also not very people intelligent either I guess. So maybe that is why I like reading your…”drivel….vents and thoughtless assholeness”. Keep on driveling Otto. You go back to your terminator 3….. and I’ll go back to Midsomer Murders.
You mean pretend Patrick isn’t really here? That wouldn’t work for me, especially if I am mentioned by name in one of his posts or it’s addressed to me personally and I feel affected by something he’s said. Maybe we just have to accept the limitations of a blog, but I found myself wondering how it would be if this was a live group. Maybe then somethings would get resolved. There again, perhaps not…
what will they call the next man. homo nuclurus? survived the idiots who pushed the button? will it be hillary, the donald, the putin, the pakistanman,iranman, someothere warlike man who thoughtlessly destroys us all? will that put an end to texting while driving? see, here is some drivel. dont read it, knowing that i can be full of vents, drivel, and thoughtless assholishness. bye.
The Presidio. good movie. action adrenaline. sassy meg ryan crying while she is telling her cop boyfriend why it is hard to let him in, and that she loves him. goody. don’t know what more to say. why do i even need to say it to anyone? don’t know. this gem was waiting for me years later. not sure why i didn’t see it when it came out. watching tv with the cat and dog, hoping that the cat will get better. z to leave in 2 weeks. MOM! mom, listen to me. ha! they really don’t make them like that anymore.
Larry: Your explanation that our overreaction (and I only stand aghast in awe at what a hideously absurd understatement the word “overreaction” would be in this case given the raw quantity of news coverage) to 9/11 explains only part of the story.
Do you have any idea how many trillions of dollars US prime military contractors suckled from the American taxpayer to finance two wars??. It would make tens of millions of welfare queens blush in unison for the rest of their natural lives. It was in the contractors’ absolute best financial interest to keep the 9/11 news cycle front and center at all costs.
It’s a similar theme to the Economic Hit Men book you talked about, only the financial victims this time around were the Americans themselves instead of foreigners.
Over the long run having Trump or Hillary in office is not the biggest financial problem the US faces.
There’s actually a much more obscure task which needs to be worked on as soon as possible for it is a ridiculous injustice which has gone on for way too long:
Obliterate Grover Norquist’s taxpayer pledge that he pressured Republican congressmen to sign.
That cockamamie pledge needs to be destroyed or invalidated. I cannot overstate the corrosive effects that pledge has had on our country. Removing the Republicans who signed the pledge from office altogether is the best immediate way.
If I’m participating in this group I can’t ignore anyone’s messages; that doesn’t work for me.
Here’s a website listing the top 10 conspiracy forums: http://www.cabaltimes.com/2009/07/31/ten-best-conspiracy-websites/
I encourage Patrick to join one of those and leave us alone.
Alternately we can create our own new WordPress blog. Maybe entitled “conspiracy theories, and the Middle East before breakfast”
Phil
Phil: Like you I read everything on the blog. I only respond to those comments that inspire me (whatever is meant by “inspiring”). I find for myself that no comments that I can remember bother me, as I put all comments down to the feelings of the person submitting them. I care little whether Patrick leaves or not … except that I really hope it doesn’t destroy the blog. However, I do feel Gretchen can handle it and prevent that from happening
This is something I have found it a great help from my therapy, and even am able to use it in my private life with my Jimbo … for the most part. There are a few exceptions and one occurred yesterday. I did find for me, after Jimbo went shopping without me, to be able to have the rest of my feeling about him on my bed and then when he returned it was over fore me. Sadly, for Jimbo it went on for the rest of the day … until just before going to bed; I made him laugh. That seemed to end it for him.
Anyway that’s the way it work for me. I am not suggesting it would for others … but I feel good putting it out there.
Jack
On one end of the spectrum two people yelling and screaming at each other can be therapeutic if they eventually get to the root of what they are so angry about and come to understand themselves better and maybe resolve their differences. On the other end of the spectrum is the bully picking on the weak and vulnerable because it makes the bully feel good at the other person’s expense. Is it not appropriate to step in and try to stop the bullying, or do we just stand by and let him have his way so long as it isn’t me being picked on.
Phil – It might be worth considering that the idea of a ‘conspiracy theory’ was first concocted by the CIA to discredit people who had a hard time believing that a ‘lone deranged gunman’ killed JFK. So the idea has a dubious heritage. Of course ‘conspiracy theories’ can and often do get things very wrong but at least as big a problem I think is the inability to ‘link’ anything. Everything is ‘coincidence’ and there seems to be some kind of perverse pride in as I call it the ‘inability to link things together’ . To quote tomatobubble that is being Boobus Americanus. I think you fall into that a fair amount.
Patrick,
It looks like you are again hoping for a discussion or argument on conspiracies.
Best would be if everyone would just stop providing that, so you could see how little interest there actually is, which means little interest in you, because that’s almost all you have to talk about. It’s unfortunate that you seemingly have no interest in exploring the roots of that obsession. As far as I can tell it’s taken over your life.
I dunno Phil wasn’t it you that brought it up? So I am ‘hoping’ for a discussion you started? I do believe I ‘explore the roots’ of a lot of this stuff in my own way. Maybe not the ‘standard’ way or the way I am supposed to or that you think I am supposed to. Your last sentence well it’s like you have no idea at all you just ‘guess’ and throw that out there. Why don’t you stick a ‘label’ on it maybe ‘compulsive’ or something. That usually passes muster for some reason. Even on that level has anything ever been done that was worth doing that might not have been a bit ‘compulsive’ I know according to primal all of this is somehow ‘resolved’ and we reach some kind of ‘balance’ which really seems close to death actually. I havn’t honestly seen so much of that at all. Mostly just a ‘theory’ (something someone made up)
Patrick,
We are off slightly from your usual foray into conspiracies, or at least from their actual content. About those obsessions taking over your life; I hope I’m wrong, but that’s what you seem to show us here. Maybe there’s a lot of other stuff going on which I’d be more interested in hearing about.
Patrick: I’m on Phil’s page on this one. The effort you seem to put into all this hoax, lies and conspiracies, is similar to the great effort you put into Gentle Giant. If only you would put your efforts into where all this anger, really belongs; I feel you you would resolve a lot of it. It’s not easy … BUT it is possible.
I thought your admission that you are a slob was a great step forward and very honest. Few would ever be willing to say that. Kudos to you.
That is the essence of Primal therapy, as I see it, and I do have a sense that on reading the book way back when, you too had a feeling that some of your problems could be resolved; for why else did you come here?
Be honest; and just tell us on the blog what went through your mind on reading the book and making the sacrifice you did to get here.
Jack
Jack,
I meant with my comment to Patrick that it would be nice to hear stuff unrelated to conspiracy theories, and not necessarily for therapeutic reasons as he may not be interested in that at this point.
Phil: That is quite possible … but I thought it could relevant for him to write about his feeling on reading the book, in addition.
Jack .
Jack: this SOUNDS nice and everything but something tells me I am being ‘partonized’ and maybe worse that a trap is being set for me. There is an essence of truth in that I put ‘great effort’ into things that are questionable in the sense of what exactly is the ‘pay off’ for me? I mean there is obviously an immediate pay off or I would not be doing it but in some kind of long term way probably not. There is also an aspect of taking on things that are way too big for me things that are beyond me but I try anyway but the fact remains they are too big for me which becomes clear to me even over time. Like that prayer about knowing the difference between the things you can change etc etc.Anyway like I don’t know the difference. Still I am inclined to say ‘that’s me’ you kind of lay out something that YOU would approve of or some way I could or might be that would meet your approval that’s I suppose what I mean by being patronized. This is a kind of problem I have with this blog and I suppose primal in general in that maybe to only way to get ‘approval’ is to say something bad about myself. That’s all why I call it a trap where does a trap like that lead…………………..nowhere that is why it’s called a trap. But it’s true also I am afraid of being trapped one reason I never ‘settled down’ even the word ‘settle down’ like a mother might say to a child ‘settle down now’ like relax it’s ok I usually don’t feel that…………………I am more like those hares I sometimes saw as a child around the farm trapped and in great pain………………
Patrick: a few things in this comment of your worthy of quoting, and responding to.
1) “…… this SOUNDS nice and everything but something tells me I am being ‘partonized’ and maybe worse that a trap is being set for me. “. I don’t sets traps for people … that’s not my modus operandi and I too find that anyone trying to trap anyone else; is something I dislike intensely. The police are for ever doing it and did it to you, and me. ‘Patronizing’ … not quite sure in what context you meant it, but that is something else I deliberately try to avoid. I find it indirect and far from straight. If I don’t like someone I am not shy and will tell them so.
2) “problem I have with this blog and I suppose primal in general in that maybe to only way to get ‘approval’ is to say something bad about myself.” Wrong, wrong and wrong again. You seemingly FAIL to see what Primal is all about. It’s about expressing your feelings and not acting them out; ie. “blame game”. It’s mostly about all the bad thing that was done to US. If one wishes to admit to bad things they’ve done to another, that I find honest. Nothing more, no hidden agenda, as far as I can see.
3) “There is an essence of truth in that I put ‘great effort’ into things that are questionable in the sense of what exactly is the ‘pay off’ for me? I mean there is obviously an immediate pay off or I would not be doing it ” Just tell us what the ‘pay off’ is to you. That would be very honest and very revealing. The rest just seems like an endless argument to convince us … which it seems is not happening.
4) ” ….. that would meet your approval ” I am not in the business of approving of anyone. I far too imperfect to get into that one … it would be a case of ‘kettle calling the frying pan black”. If it comes across that way that’s too bad. I can only try to prevent it. If I get a sense that it might come across that way, I’ll do my best to rectify it.
5) “But it’s true also I am afraid of being trapped one reason I never ‘settled down’ ” That’s understandable I don’t think any of us liked being trapped. However, there are degrees of ‘being trapped’ Trapped in a cage, as you mentioned about the hares, or Prison is petty daunting … being trapped into saying something that is unintended, for me is not that terrible.
Jack
Hi all
Finally the medical comunity has much to say about childhood traumas and how it afects aduld life. Better late than never . TEd talk
Miguel
Miguel: I have notice that also and it does seem like some progress. What I feel is missing is for the Medical profession to seek prevention, rather than trying to route for cure.
Jack
Miguel,
That is a very good video. We had been discussing here a while back about that research on ACE. It’s a great development and I hope it will lead to an understanding on what kind of interventions are really effective, and what needs to be prevented. Both are necessary is what I think, otherwise the problem will keep cycling from one generation to the next.
Phil
I have complained a few times of the ‘bias’ in regards to the election now in the papers the Huffington Post specifically here and the Guardian in the UK. Nowadays I no longer read the NY Times and it seems they are no better if this ‘tomato bubble’ guy is to be believed (he is)
http://tomatobubble.com/id1059.html
Mooooom! Mom, listen to me!
“Well, hello there
My it’s been a long, long time
How am I doin’?
Oh, I guess that I’m doin’ fine
It’s been so long now but it seems now
That it was only yesterday
Gee, ain’t it funny how time slips away”
wahhhhh!
I’ll imitate Otto & Margaret in a sense and share a little bit from my own life. I’m definitely not a pack rat or a hoarder of any sort. I usually keep a reasonably clean and organized home with minimal clutter, yet I am not very good at the deep cleaning aspects such as scrubbing bathtubs and toilets, sweeping and shampooing carpets, etc. Not just ordinary clean, but spic-and-span sparkly clean.
Ultra-deep housecleaning just infuriates me overall, but I have relatives visiting in a few days and I have to finish it. I was simply not wired to be a deep housecleaner in life.
How about Gretchen, Barry, Phil, and Patrick and Otto and so forth? Do you all deep clean your respective homes like good little boys and girls? Just curious.
Guru,
In my house we have resolved that issue by having a cleaning person come every 2 weeks. It also resolves disagreements over cleanliness priorities. The only thing is,
the day before she’s due to arrive I have to put away a lot of my valued items or never see them again. Also we wouldn’t want to leave all the dishes for her etc. so I don’t enjoy the process or the money spent on this.
Phil
Guru,
Now my wife has hired someone to work on the lawn and that is another big issue, because I like doing it myself. But the job I do doesn’t meet her satisfaction.
I might as well not have a yard, if I can’t have the pleasure of fooling around with it myself. I prefer a natural wild appearance, and have let a good portion grow wild.
There is a small forest in the back which provides privacy and is an area no longer needing to be mowed.
Phil
You provided excellent responses to my question, Phil. Thank you. I agree with you on natural wild appearance being desirable as long as the sheltering vegetation doesn’t attract vermin which can creep into the home. I use a cordless electric lawn mower.
Now that you’ve done your part, let’s allow others to share a rich tapestry of their lives where housecleaning and outdoor maintenance is concerned, shall we?
Guru – Short version I am a slob
Guru: Your comment triggered something in me. My father was for ever reciting the mantra “a place of everything, and everything in it’s place”. I bought into it, but my brother went in the opposite direction and hated order. My Jimbo is super clean to a point that I find a little too far. Being a medical tech he forever reciting the mantra “Hygiene starts with the hands”. He demand that I wash my hands after doing almost anything.
I feel that over doing the cleanliness, can lead to the immune system not able to respond to minimal germs. Cleanliness I do like, BUT not overdone as I deem it. On the other hand I am obsessed with order, and perhaps for that reason love creating computer database applications. My Jimbo is not so concerned with order … so there is something of a conflict. I’d like it to be more of complementing one another … BUT that discussion never gets off the ground.
Jack
We too have a cleaning lady come in once a week. After doing our own cleaning for years it’s now a luxury we got used to. We also got to the point where putting money into cleaning is ok with us – even getting the curtains dry cleaned every once in a while.
The back garden is different. We used to have a small lawn surrounded by bushes which I took care of, usually just with a manual lawn mower (they are really good), but three years ago we replaced the lawn with a garden which my wife mostly takes care of. There’s quite a lot of work to be done. It has many plants of various kinds and it looks purposely wild.
I like the type of garden where one can see and feel the seasons. I like the periodicity, the tree wearing orange and then getting naked and then the new leaves begin to come out to finally blossom in the spring and later give fruit.
As a child our house was surrounded with trees: Avocado, Banana, Peach, Plum, Loquat, Pomegranate, and one poinciana (on which I used to climb and stay on for what seems now like hours). We also had a small lawn, flower beds my mom
… (clicked the wrong button) … flower beds my mom cultivated unprofessionally, and an entrance full of planters. Writing about it now makes me miss it.
That’s a terrific written house maintenance portrait you painted, Daniel. Thank you!
Daniel,
It sounds like you have a nice garden. I enjoy the seasons also. The leaves are starting to turn colors and to fall, and I’ve always liked autumn. What I do every year is collect the leaves and bring to them to the vegetable garden for composting. This is a large job which normally won’t be done until sometime in November or early December.
My wife is bothered about how the yard looks but I feel differently. She wants it
very neat and tidy and I prefer a wild look. So this is an area of disagreement for us.
The leaves have to be removed from grassy areas otherwise they’ll kill the grass, so there’s no question about that. I’d leave leaves under bushes where they can compost but she wants that all cleaned up too.
We have a large open area where the kids played soccer when they were younger and we still have goals.
This weekend maybe I’ll start cleaning up the leaves even though only a few have fallen and it could wait.
Always wanted a vegetables bed. What do you grow and how do they turn out? And what about pests?
Daniel,
I always plant tomatoes, cucumbers, green beans, as well as a few herbs. I have oregano, which is perennial, and also plant basil and parsley. This past year a friend gave me some garlic for planting and that turned out really well. The main emphasis is on tomatoes; this past season i had 18 tomato plants, 3 cucumber plants and 3 poles with green beans. I have a fence around the garden but pests still can be a problem. Deer don’t jump in, as they did in the past, but they lean over the fence and snack on whatever they can reach or what is growing on the fence.
Ground hogs and rabbits can dig a tunnel and some years I have seen them entering the garden. After many years having the garden, much of the fence is buried, so that is helpful.
This year we had a very good harvest of tomatoes, green beans, and garlic. The cucumbers were done early. We like fresh salads and my wife makes gazpacho.
Doesn’t that mean you get a lot of tomatoes all at once (hence the gazpacho)? One of the trees around my childhood home, the plum, gave so much fruit at season that we actually begged the neighbors to pick up crates of it.
So, how do you plan so you’ll get your reasonable and continuous supply of vegetables?
Daniel,
I buy a variety of small tomato plants from the local nursery and plant them, if I can, around May 15th or later when frost is no longer much of a risk around here. I try to pick early producing varieties good for salads.
We eat a lot of salads and in August tomatoes start taking up a greater and greater proportion of the ingredients until a point is reached of eating purely tomato salads.
We like our tomatoes and give few of them away. During the rest of the year I avoid store bought tomatoes as they hardly compare to my home grown ones.
Gazpacho uses a lot of tomatoes, so that does come in handy, but it’s also because my wife is a Spaniard and gazpacho is one of the things she makes.
Right now the cucumbers and tomatoes are done but green beans are still coming.
We have already been discussing how I will arrange the garden for next year.
I have fun working in the garden and enjoy being outside.
Next year I want to take back lawn maintenance from the guy my wife hired. That only started this past September. I’m glad that he can make a living but I really want to do it myself even if I have to buy a tractor to keep my wife happy. She was complaining that we don’t have the right tools and that the property was looking so bad, she was ashamed and ready to move out. I think she was exaggerating but that does show the challenges I face. .She was quite upset about it.and insists that I can’t satisfy her standards after many years of trying. She also does it herself but the lawn mower was having issues and she felt overwhelmed. I was at work and she saw this guy working on a neighbor’s property and the dirty deed was done.
Phil
Jack Phil .
The fact the medical profession is being aware of the effects that adverse childhood experiences have on adult health, means a big step on the right direction. And also that they say it is a problem that concerns the whole society not just the therapist, doctors, social services, but the society in general and they are taking actions on prevention. What I am not sure it is that they use the right therapy to heal childhood wounds. But anyway it means a big step forward. I first heard about the ACE study in this page. thanks
Miguel
Miguel: Maybe Art Janov should write or communicate with them and perhaps give them some ideas.
Jack
> Phil, do you mean the cleaning lady displaces your stuff and then you can’t find it anymore?
> Guru, mmm, I like to keep it more or less clean, but am a bit like you in disliking that thorough detailed stuff.
> I solved it more or less by having a cleaning lady every four weeks, for half a day, so she can do the corners that are hard to get to etc.
> right now my place keeps being put partially upside down by the guys that are installing the central heating ..
> from today on it works as in heating, but the thermostat still needs to be installed tomorrow.
> I have hot water in the bath, but should not use the kitchen sink yet as it needs some work tomorrow still.
> it is hard to have all my kitchen stuff piled up in bags etc. as the cupboard under the sink is also not ready, argh, and tools everywhere..
> keeping my cats inside and safe is the hardest part but so far so good.
> got my keys back from the workers today after my stay with my friends, so that feels also better, I can have more control on when they come, and can take a bath without worrying they might suddenly show up…
>
> in a way having family over is a good incentive to do that little extra cleaning, that happens to me and seems to have to happen to you too Guru, haha, you will be happy afterwards hopefully..
> it helps me to use oldfashioned Marseille soap as it smells so good and clean..
> you can put on John Lennon’s Cleanup time maybe ..
> M
Margaret, Sometimes I suspect the cleaning lady of doing that, or messing up the computer by cleaning the keyboard; the speakers then don’t work, and other things.
I have reason to believe she’s the cause.
On the day before she’s coming I warn my son that it’s a “red alert”, but he doesn’t take precautions.
Guru, Is this a one time thing because of your visitors or is it a larger issue?
Have you tried Mr. Clean? It probably works well with Brawny paper towels. In our house “fabuloso” is a widely used and it’s also a good vocabulary word
Thank you Margaret, Patrick, and Phil for your responses. Margaret, I have to honestly say I wasn’t expecting you to respond because so much of cleaning and appreciating the results requires good eyesight and I was figuring it wouldn’t matter that much to you, anyway. Guess I was wrong? Kudos to you for trying your best at it.
Phil, I use several different cleaners. I have three small storage areas with various household cleaners. Pine-Sol works well enough for hard floors. The issue with my relatives is a complex one I would rather not go into here, That’s a much more deep topic than simple housecleaning.
Patrick, slobs have a lot on their minds and I can see where they are coming from when viewing menial tasks as a waste of time.
I learned a lot from the responders AND the non-responders today. Thank you!
i wash my hands after going to the bathroom at work (hospital). I have to use my own soap because the harsh stuff they supply made my hands itch horribly until i figured out that super soap was the cause. then you go into an elevator and someone coughs forcefully. i haven’t cleaned my floors at home for years. just getting tired. fungi have caused much havoc in my life. dermatology doctor on radio said we are overdoing it with the handwashing, hurts our skin. george carliin did a whole bit on eatiung dirt or something like that. my grandma was superclean possibly because my mom caught polio and died. good nigyht.
Otto:- I have been for sometime aware of the “over-cleanliness”. Due mainly to seeing my Jimbo and his mantra (“cleanliness starts with the hands”) from his days in training to become a medical tech. The surprise and revelation is that he’s more prone to infections than I am.
My mother told us a story about two children when were young and both got diphtheria; a little girl, and a same age little boy. The girl came form a super clean home BUT she died. The boy came from a very rough and dirty slum, but survived. Not sure what my mother was trying to tell us BUT she, my mother was into herbal cures and there was a herb shop close to our home that my mother frequented..
We kids hated the herb cure and most of them tasted nasty. BUT she kept us great heath. We hardly ever had much by way of illnesses.
My Jimbo is surprised at the way I seem not to get infections like flue ,,, yet he’s very prone to all those things. By comparison he claims I am NOT very clean.
Jack
We haven’t had people/friends to any house that we have lived in for the past 40 years, except maybe for a year in Crestline, where my wife did not have to work. We have not had people over since we are slobs. We could not have our son and his wife over except once, when we spent days cleaning. I used to try to clean once a week, but that has gone by the wayside. We have a gardener for the front yard but the back yard is kind of wild, pine cone clutter from squirrel chewings all over the ground now. my neighbor has to get oh his roof with a leaf blower to clean off pine needles from my bjg tree which may one day fall and destroy both our homes. oh yeah mice and cockroaches! ha! dog crap and catbox with tapeworms. ha. dont come over!
Dear Otto: You are funny–but thank you for the warning.
I recall getting into trouble when cleaning up the living room because Mom could never find anything where she had left it, so I just went and did my homework and let it go. Got good study habits anyways out of it but not good housekeeping habits.
This thing about the only way to get approval here is to say something bad about myself does inhibit me or even say something bad about my family or even culture. I feel a loyalty to them I don’t want to be blabbing about them and telling tales out of school. I was a loyal little boy even if it hurt a lot too. This even ties into this Jewish thing like we were very Catholic and if I was to tell ‘bad stories’ about the Catholic Church or something that would meet with approval by the Jews like ‘see how stupid and superstitious these Catholics are’ so I don’t want to be disloyal in that way or even in any way. And even Janov was a Jew and most of the powers that be are Jewish I don’t see actually much ‘stories’ from them about how ‘stupid’ their background was/is. Even now you wont find Gretchen or Barry actually telling us much that is ‘bad’ about them. That’s not their role their role is to be better than us and I resent that. They have an image to maintain and they do but it seems my job is to break any image I have and just say what is ‘bad’ about me. Like I get approval for saying I am a slob and even encouragement to tell us more. Tell us more bad stuff about youreself Patrick and you will be loved here. Tell us how all your concerns with ‘hoaxes’ are nothing but a projection from your childhood there you were truly hoaxed so your present day concerns mean nothing and are just a symptom of a badly functioning brain. You can ‘settle down’ now nothing at all there to see, just become like all the rest brain washed and believing what they are told. One problem though is I don’t believe that at all not for one minute do I believe that. Truth is stranger that fiction and I think it is my job to tease out the difference plus I enjoy doing it there is that ‘pay off’ even if in the long run it probably means nothing……………I love this little ditty but the words are ‘deep’………..
Patrick,
I don’t think there is pressure for anyone to say something bad about themselves. I think it’s more an emphasis to talk about yourself, if possible.
I assume you refer to a payoff obtained from researching conspiracy type information.
I don’t know what that would be. Entertainment or some type of satisfaction? But does it in some way benefit you or other people?
Patrick
This is a primal therapy blog and that is clearly the main thing connecting us, I think An interest in therapy implies personal issues or concerns and that can be something to talk about here but it doesn’t amount saying bad things about yourself. It does mean allowing yourself to be vulnerable. You seem to have difficulty with that as you are so often in an attacking mode.
Phil
Otto: Thank you for sharing your stories about the hand washing and how too tired you are to clean much of anything. I can relate to everything you said. Like you I seem to feel as though I am in a middle of a war zone and I am too beaten down by it trying to please everybody so that my life’s ship sails somewhat smoothly. Cleaning house adds to my stress although sweeping floors with an electric sweeper does have a mildly soothing, hypnotic quality to it. Perhaps its the rhythm and the whirr of the sweeper motor.
From my experiences, casinos are the absolute worst place for germs next to hospitals. I’ve learned it’s mandatory to wash my hands frequently in those places. 99% of casino patrons comically ignore this directive because of the all-consuming allure of the next slot machine jackpot. The vast majority of people using the bathrooms in those places hurry by the hand washing stations so they can run back to the gambling machines and tables. Can you imagine someone having their hand up their butt from using toilet paper, then pressing a slot machine button which you later sit in front of and press the button yourself? What if I eat French fries at the buffet afterwards? Ugggghly!!!!. The thought of my unwittingly eating the contents of an unknown stranger’s behind is pretty daunting, wouldn’t you agree? It does help me to understand why Howard Hughes was such an extreme germophobe during the last few years of his life when he owned a bunch of Vegas casinos in the 60’s and 70’s.
Patrick; Your last post here was a funny one with many subtle truisms. You’re still a slob, though, and you need to tell us more bad things about yourself if you want to achieve true salvation on a cellular level.
Interesting peak in people’s homes, gardens and domestic habits. Since I have students at my house nearly every day it forces me into keeping the place in good order. When I’ve been completely off work there’s been a definite tendency to have things slide, though I’ve improved a lot generally since my twenties when my flat or room would routinely look like a bomb had hit it. My domestic tip if you don’t work from home in the way I do is to have frequent house guests… My lawn mower frustratingly starting smoking while I was half way through what was hopefully going to be the last cut until next summer. I didn’t really want to folk out on another one and was contemplating what to do next when a friend I hadn’t seen in ages showed up. After a decent catch up, I showed him my lawn upon which he disappeared and came back a while later with his lawn mower and finished the job for me. Now everything looks very neat and I’m very grateful! So now I owe him one now. My return favour is starting to look like inviting him to see My Scientology Movie with me, which he should be interested in as he’s an ex-scientologist. Or maybe he wants to put it all behind him. I’ll see.
Looks like I’ve been outed. That was a mistake….
Jack? Aren’t you going to repeat David’s surname hundreds of times on the blog like you did with me? He outed himself now. Here’s your chance!
Guru: No!!!!!
He’s not using a pseudonym like you are for ever hiding under. For what reason eludes me
Seems you are still sore about it. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Jack
Jack: No!!!!!
I’m not “sore” about it at all, so you are absolutely wrong. If you’re going to propose a so-called “cure” for psychopathology to the larger public, that same public has the right to know and be reminded of some of the shitty and underhanded things you do to people as well.
Filling out all replies; this conversation is finished.
Filling out all replies; this conversation is finished.
Filling out all replies; this conversation is finished.
Filling out all replies; this conversation is finished. La la la! I can’t hear you!
Filling out all replies; this conversation is finished.
Guru” So!!!! calling someone by their first name, after they’d publicly announced it was Shitty? … come on Guru …. However, maybe you think there are other things I did that are shitty. I’d be quite happy for you to post them on the blog. AND suggesting that you’re not sore. Wow that’s a bit of a stretch yeah?????
“CURE” from neurosis is when you can acknowledge feelings and express them. Seems you were not happy about the blog article either
Jack
Jack: Even though I said our conversation is finished I will add that I didn’t read your articles or your books. I couldn’t possibly be happier with this decision.
Gretchen: The search for the truth and transparency and honesty are your most deeply cherished values for you as espoused by your dealings with Patrick’s Jewish related postings, aren’t they? I’m sure my fellow blog readers can appreciate your display of following through on such values. Can you kindly remind us how many times you had to ask Jack to stop using my name on the blog? And how many times you had to erase Jack’s transgressions after you asked him not to do so? I am also hoping you won’t be forgetful of the facts, for that would have dire implications on the cognitive abilities of Post-Primal patients especially in light of the many beneficial structural brain changes Janov said that Primal Therapy is supposed to facilitate. Thank you for your assistance.
Aw, fuck it. I don’t have the energy to waste on this nonsensical shit, anyway.
In reflecting about being trapped and getting approval for saying something bad about ourselves.
I think we have to look at our own weaknesses, even if that’s saying something bad about ourselves, whether it is to ourselves, a friend or in the blog. It kind of brings it out in the open. After I say something here I begin to think about it and remember my feelings back then of how it was. I don’t feel it is all about approval. In the long run it’s approval for going through something painful to get better and improve my life.
Being trapped. I’ve had that feeling too, but I know it has origins; something to get to some day.
Also, I don’t mean to negate your feeling of being trapped here in the present. It is your valid feeling of what is going on for you, Patrick.
I see there’s a new film coming out called “Denial”. It looks like one I’ll want to see.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/brand-connect/bleecker-street/denial/
Phil – I could say quite a bit about this but I’m afraid it would fall foul of the ‘censor’. So much for ‘free speech’ and as I said before pretty much exactly mirrors the situation in society at large. That’s how ‘different’ PT is as presently constituted. Nothing at all ‘revolutionary’ about it but total status quo. Pass on now nothing to see here………….
Phil – I read that article and it is interesting several times Lipstadt mentions vaccines and how not believing they are good for you is equated with holocaust denial. Vaccine denial !! To me she is at least consistent then – consistently wrong. Her ‘evidence’ for the holocaust is the ‘stories’ of not only the victims but also the ‘perpetrators’…………………oops one problem here most of the ‘perpetrators’ were tortured to the extent of the commander of Auchwitz having his testicles crushed and 3 days and nights of unspeakable torture by a British ‘hit team’………………oops I wonder why they needed to do that? That’s just about the same as KSM ‘admitting’ to 9/11 after I dunno a few hundred water boarding’s. Not real ‘evidence’ at all.
Also Lipstadt ‘won’ that court case which ‘proves’ nothing either after all OJ ‘won’ his trial too. It seems Irving made a mistake in accusing Lipstadt of calling him a ‘holocaust denier’ he should have said ‘yes I am’ and be done with it. Though that also has problems as it is ‘illegal’ in lots of countries and I believe Irving was jailed in Austria for that very thing. Pretty much a can’t win situation certain people have a knack for that – putting someone in a ‘no win’ situation.
It might be interesting for Gretchen to see this movie at least it seems to show there is a possible issue here it is far from being all done and dusted as she seems to think.
Looks good Phil. Thanks for the heads up.
To me vaccines are now actually a ‘true holocaust’ it has been a holocaust for a whole generation of children of which I know quite a few. It is interesting that Lipstadt would be so against anyone questioning them maybe it could be used as some kind of test – if Lipstadt is against it it is probably a good idea. I have said before it would be a great cause for the primal powers that be to get into the issue of vaccine damage but sadly that is probably too ‘real world’ for them. Cry after split milk rather than preventing it happening in the first place. My sister has 2 kids that I believe are vaccine damaged and it is interesting in a morbid kind of way to think in our generation we were damaged by the whole way of raising children, now they know better on that score but they still find a way to damage the children. It’s not the parents fault it is idiots like Lipstadt who promote this stuff. And this damage by vaccines is even worse than what we went through with it seems sadly very little chance of recovery. It’s typical that an idiot like Lipstadt would be combating a non existent holocaust on the one hand but actively promoting a real one on the other……………..this is a video from this Vaxxed movie there are loads and loads of others sad to say……..
> Phil,
> and Daniel,
> it is refreshing to read about tomato and cucumber plants and animals snacking on them over the fence..
> pests? I assumed those would be diseases or parasites, , did not know that term also appplied to rabbits, groundhogs and deer maybe. and to us then come to think of it.
> but actually they all help to spread the plants seeds, so they are useful, and only a pest as they compete with us for the same food.
> must admit I never liked the term, as I don’t like the ‘bad weed’ concept either. unwanted at some spots yes, but it all is useful in its own ways isn’t it?
> like that concept of a wild part of garden, Phil, over the years my mother managed to make her entire big garden into a wild one, full of hidden surprises. she prohibited an occasional gardener to mowe the lawn as she wanted to preserve the wild flowers and weeds, and just allowed him to keep the edge into a shape she could still spot upcoming cars if she wanted to drive off .
> she kept digging up wild plants and brnging them over, and it really became beautiful, without much maintenance at all in the end.
> hope the next habitants will appreciate it..
> M
I must say, Phil’s description of what goes on in his garden was very picturesque (appetizing too). Your description of your Mom’s garden’s hidden surprises somehow brought to mind Frances Burnett’s ‘The Secret Garden’ which was one of the great books of my childhood, next to Enid Bliyton’s book series (‘Famous Five’, ‘Secret Seven’), Karl May’s (‘Old Shatterhand’ and ‘Winnetau’ series), and Mark Twain (the usual suspects..).
Denying the destruction of European Jews and denying the beneficial effects of vaccines have nothing in common, and comparing the two is completely mistaken. The only thing the two might share is that those who deny the first may have a bigger propensity to claim the second.
The main issue in my opinion is that there are strong forces now trying, whether intentionally or not, to undo the hard-won achievements of Enlightenment. Reason, as a means of collecting information and basing one’s decisions on, is facing headwinds like we haven’t seen in 300 years.
Patrick, for example, isn’t really interested in vaccines or global warming. Nor is he interested in history or what happened to Jews throughout that history. Or rather, he is interested only as far as it can prove the moral judgment he already made: that vaccines are the ‘real holocaust’, that global warming is a hoax, that Jews are despicable and are responsible for everything negative in this world. So, when studying these subjects he will only actively look for that type of information. He said that much himself and he constantly displays it.
This is how it used to be done until the end of the middle ages, the exact opposite of how modern studies are conducted: You approach the subject curiously and impartially, you gather the data, analyze it according to certain standards, and only then reach findings from which you can later, if you like, draw moral conclusions.
With the advent of social media these anti-reason, anti-Enlightenment forces have an unprecedented and unmediated access to the public opinion arena. Furthermore, Google and Facebook in particular have sucked up advertising budgets at alarming speed thus rendering the traditional media’s economic model obsolete. With declining revenues that media is forced to chase cash and cannot invest as before in real journalism that traditionally not only provided hard news about what’s happening in the world but also, through editorial standards, made a value judgment manifested, for example, in slogans such as “All the News that’s Fit to Print”.
Today, not only they can’t afford to get their news first hand (many Moscow Bureau Chiefs now live in and work from Washington), or keep employing experienced but expensive journalists (40% of journalists lost their jobs since 2007, and many are replaced by extremely inexperienced ‘kids’), they also shy away from arbitrating what’s ‘Fit to Print’. How else could a Donald Trump receive until recently such vast, free and mostly neutral or even positive media coverage? It’s obvious: it’s cheap, it’s entertaining, and it brings in money. When publishers replace “show me the truth” with “show me the money”, and when editors are unable as they once were to bring in enough money using truth, a Donald Trump is the outcome.
The challenge, as we are witnessing everywhere and also before our very eyes here on the blog, is ‘how to conduct a public discourse in a time of crazy’. I wish I knew.
Daniel – maybe I did not make this so clear but I do not believe global warming is a hoax. I think there are 2 things involved here the problem of global warming and what we are trying to do about it. The second comes under the heading of ‘geo engineering’; and it is my belief we now have a ‘double problem’ The geo engineering seems to be very destructive so to my way of thinking job 1 would be to expose and throw light on that and hopefully stop it. Global warming is quite likely a problem but if we keep pretending that geo engineering is not happening we have no hope. It seems we have no hope anyway. We are in some vortex of illusion that is pretty hard to break out of imo. I wonder if that is ‘crooked thinking’ lol………….
Daniel,
It’s true that there is so much poor, often erroneous, information available on the internet which can seem equivalent to reliable sources. People are unable or unwilling to see the difference. In democracies how are we going to be able make the right decisions on complex issues such as climate change and other things when people are so poorly informed, or mislead.
I find the rise of Trump to be very startling and scary. So many of his statements are obvious lies, many of them huge ones. I have seen that fact checkers have found around 60% of what he says to be lies.. All politicians make some false or misleading statements but Trump”s performance is outrageous.
What’s surprising is how he got to be the Republican nominee in the first place. That voters would prefer someone like that is astounding to me.
Talking to people I do find quite a few believing in conspiracies of one kind or another, chem trails, the illuminati who are controlling the world, Hillary Clinton covering up a massive medical problem, all kinds of things. Vaccines. There’s also the cases of highly educated professionals who in other areas of thought can be somewhat irrational. Take, for example Ben Carson, the prominent neurosurgeon who was in the republican primaries and apparently does not believe in climate change or even evolution. A very educated person who you would think should be reliable, but maybe only in his narrow specialty.
That’s how you can have anti- vaccine physicians, not reliable about that issue. It’s not within their specialty or they have conspiracy thoughts and feelings driving their conclusions, which are not based on strong evidence.
Phil
Phil – just why you would even believe that shooting day up day old infants up with toxic metals is a good idea is beyond me. It seem the illuminati have taken over your brain. We ain’t talking no conspiracy theory here neither…………..there is ‘loads of ‘evidence’ that is a very bad idea. Do you know any kids? Why do you think so many kids have ‘problems’ nowadays. This can be a matter of simple observation or do you know anything about the frequency of autism now versus even 20 years ago. I am actually amazed Phil you can be so blind now THAT’S scary. Forget Trump.
I take it you are talking from personal experience Yeah???? That could explain a huge amount of your current behavior.
Jack
I have no idea what you are trying to say and suspect neither do you! And no as far as ‘vaccine damage’ I count myself lucky just lucky an accident of place and time. But I feel sorry for the kids growing up now and nobody much to stand in their corner. Not you, not Phil not the primal institute not Janov…………….all just a bunch of empty yakkers lead as always by yourself. Fucking talkers and no caring that can be detected.
Patrick: Fine, I have no problem with your feelings on the matter.
Jack
Jack says to Guru “I’d be quite happy for you to post them on the blog” that to me is kind of the problem. No actual interest in ‘resolving’ anything or God forbid come to peace about anything just more histrionic self promotion and point scoring in PUBLIC, that seems to be important. Where emotions are paraded to score point of course you are a thespian (actor) and like to make ‘scenes’ but I sense NO interest in coming to an understanding or making peace.
If Guru for whatever reasons of his own wants to go under his pseudonym that is his right. You have been picking at that scab for so long now and you refuse to let him be but picking at scabs seems to be a way of life for you you even found a ‘theory’ to justify it
Guru – I honestly do not see the connection that you make with Gretchen’s role in shutting me down from posting pretty relevant information of the world we live in and your spat with the Jack man but whatever…………….that’s another discussion. Maybe one thing to focus on is if this ‘story’ is way exaggerated think about the ‘real victims’ in that case the Germans and their reputation for what seems forever and ever not to mention all the money they have handed out over the years and even continue to do so. That is called vilification and is not cool and notice the world of Islam is now being vilified by the same characters. It seems to be a characteristic blacken someone else’s name to the point they almost can’t recover and if someone comes to their defense like me then blacken HIS name……………..even the basis of the stories shares a similar characteristic torture in fact whether water boarding or crushing testicles, that’s how ‘true’ these stories are.
Patrick: Obviously the name thing going on with Jack and the controversy about WW2 Jews are two completely different topics. There is no direct connection except that Gretchen has said she placed a great value on the truth and I was trying to appeal to Gretchen’s value in sense of truth where Jack’s past actions are concerned.
Jack was already spinning it to where he did something harmless when I know Gretchen spent hours and hours on the blog cleaning up after what Jack did on top of asking Jack numerous times to stop doing it.. Even other people stepped in and asked Jack to stop it.
I actually felt bad for Gretchen and the crap she was going through cleaning up after Jack’s vengeful and passive-aggressive acts. This is why I am a bit surprised she hasn’t said anything about her side of the story considering all the work she put in it in the first place!
I just find it so strange that the Primal Institute promotes a “cure” from Jack when I received trolling and other passive-aggressive acts from him (heckled for “crooked thinking” an ungodly number of times, etc).
Not to worry, I can emotionally handle all this, but it leaves me asking if it’s prudent to have Jack be the Primal standard bearer? Why not make someone like Phil or Larry the crown prince of Primal, instead?
It’s not like I am going to sit here and fret about this all day, but I did want to thoroughly answer Patrick’s concerns for its own sake.
Guru – I imagine I probably have more ‘crooked thinker’ hits than you! It might be close but I gotta think I won! What’s that old primal standby if someone is constantly accusing others and not just one 2 people here at least of something it very likely says something about the person doing it. Maybe deep down Jack ‘knows’ or ‘fears’ he is a ‘crooked thinker’ and can’t quite deal with that so he passes it along. I mean the concept I would say is valid but to use it as some kind of all purpose insult that’s not so sound imo. Or that’s the best crooked thinking me can come up with right now………….
Last night I had a dream where I confronted my father about the way he treated us kids when we were young, something I never did whilst he was alive. It was perhaps precipitated by Guru’s hyperbole of me repeating his first name hundreds of times on the blog, AND Gretchen then having to spend endless hours cleaning it up. Further Patrick’s remark, after my having read a book and endeavoring there-on-in to be more straight and clear in my thinking.
I had decided not to respond to either Guru or Patrick, but in view of the dream decided I would.
Jack
> Jack,
> I’d like to hear more about the contents of the dream, about what went on between you and your dad, instead of how it refers to Guru or Patrick.
> what did your dad do and what was your reaction and your feeling?
> I often have dreams like that and it always feels like a little piece of my personal puzzle is finding its place.
> it can involve family but also past lovers etc.
> or situations..
> M
Margaret: I thought I had replied to you about my dream, but on looking at the blog now I don’t see it. If it does not turn up I will try again.
Jack
Margaret: The dream was about me confronting my daddy, whilst he was alive, which I never did. It was not a sad, angry or even frightening dream, just a realization that I never confronted him. On waking after the dream, I wondered what might have precipitated it, and could only think that I had not confronted Guru’s hyperbole about repeating his first name on the blog hundreds of times; AND then Gretchen having to spend countless hours cleaning up the mess. My recollection was that I mentioned his name twice, perhaps three times at most. Gretchen asked me once to desist and I complied.
Then there was Patrick’s comment about being the ‘crooked thinker’. After reading the book, “Straight and Crooked Thinking” by Thouless, I endeavored to think straight, and be as clear as I know how.
I agree with Guru that my comments say more about me than anyone else. Does not the same apply to us all?
My father would insist that we kids were put to bed before he arrived home from work. He insisted that he’d had enough of dealing with customers at the shop where he worked. We kids were not ready to go to sleep and so we would romp on the bed and my father would creep up stairs, catch us jumping up and down on our bed and then spank us until we cried.
In the past I have had many insights about these spanking and how they affected me in numerous ways. My father told my brother in law that the way to deal with children was to break their spirit. He sure succeeded in breaking mine and I become the shyest kid on the block. It took me years to regain any sense of myself.
Sadly, my father got a bad deal from his parents and in particular his mother; who in turn got a very bad deal from her father who, when she was a young girl, he’d come home drunk … climb into bed with her and commence to have sex with her. When she cried out he’d respond with “don’t worry darlin … it’s just a little mouse”. For the rest of her life she, my granny, would be afraid of mice and if she saw one would jump on a chair and pull her skirt tight around her legs and scream.
The ultimate realization is how the neurosis gets passed down from one generation to the next.
I do feel that being defensive is not conducive to being healthy and do my best to not be so. That is not to suggest I always succeed. But I do take note of it, most of the time. Hope this helps with your request Margaret.
Jack
Excuse me while i cuss out my poor wife. ah, never mind. doesnt do any good. abandonment issues. lack issues. fuck shit. nothing bad to say about her. god will track me dowh and beat me to a pulp if i say another word. cant wait for her to be gone, next week, 4 months, 6 months, 2 weeks, who knows. the kid with the phd will be sick of her soon enough as she is less than desirable as a roommate, in my opinion. but i hope against hope that she stays there at least a year. i hope she prospers once she is away from my angry assholish self.
Last night I watched the whole debate and came away with the following:- I thought Trump, true to style, was conceited, belligerent, and an angry old man. Hilary on the other hand was more reserved; perhaps deliberately so, more composed and more convincing. and did mention more of her plans should she make to the White House
The general consensus appears that Trump did not gain any new voters, but might have stopped the slide from last Saturdays revelations about groping and abusing women. Little compensation I would suggest. Hilary might have been more reserved in order not to give consent to Republicans to go after her secrecy and the email question. I find these transgression she might have or, did make, were minor by comparison to his courageousness and bluster. Her campaign might well have been preparing for the last debate were she might be holding back some trump (no pun intended) card.
Jack
P.S. I am not a citizen and therefore will not be voting.
Jack,
I watched the debate last night and found it stressful with all the attacking by Trump. The consensus does seem to be that Clinton won, but Trump had a better performance than last time.
He did not make an effective apology or explanation about the tape released on Friday. I thought Hillary did a very good job questioning his fitness for office.
Trump didn’t rant and ramble as much and had some effective attacks, at least for his base supporters. He made some outrageous statements such as directing a special prosecutor against Clinton and that she would be in jail if he won. Sounds like he would be a dictator.
The Clinton campaign is probably calculating that it’s effective to let him bring himself down with his own words rather than getting in the mud with him. Also, women don’t seem to come across well attacking.
An interesting analysis I saw contended that this performance leaves the republican party in a worse state than before. Additional leaders may hesitate to denounce Trump, they are stuck with him, he is a lead weight on the party, but has too many supporters and can’t be easily dumped.
If he had totally bombed, it would have made it easier for them.
I’d like it all to be over already.
Phil
Phil – on this thing about Clinton being in jail if he won if it’s true what he says that she destroyed I dunno 30,000 emails AFTER she got a subpoena don’t you think that WOULD land of lot of people and has in jail. Didn’t Martha Steward to to jail for quite a while for something similar but even less like she did not tell the FBI everything something like that. Also these emails would I am sure show massive corruption in terms of money being given the the Clinton Foundation for the State Dept then to overlook all kinds of things. This is pretty serious corruption it involves also Government at the highest levels I have a hard time seeing how that is ‘outrageous’ in any sense.
Also once again Clinton is the one that has dragged this to a very low level that tape is pretty ridiculous to take it that seriously. Trump used to be on Howard Stern I remember and the way I remember it that was the way Howard Stern used to go on. Someone said it’s Alpha male stuff and Beta males can’t deal with it or take it overly seriously. Or in any case a lot of hypocrisy that’s why I think Trump’s thing of bringing in Bill ‘victims’ actually makes a good point. One it just words the other is deeds. Trump also said about Hillary ‘it’s all just words’ I cannot think of a truer statement
This is without even getting into the wars she is always promoting. Now even Russia itself the wants a ‘no fly’ zone over Syria all that means is the Syrian legitimate Government can’t fly but US bombers can. Just as she did in Libya a disgusting scam that she got through the UN under this ‘no fly’ nonsense and then they bombed the hell out of Libya. To me she is a disgusting war monger and if she is elected and Syria will be wrecked and after that Iran and who knows who else. But people know by now these are all wars for Israel if you think all that is ok I don’t know what to say. A sad and mad world and Trump I don’t think is much better but honestly I think a bit better. He sees no reason to be antagonizing Russia I can’t either. But he is very badly informed if you take him at his word about “islamic terror’ so that’s too bad. “Islamic terror” is a scam start to finish starting with say 9/11 and finishing with all the bogus ‘events’ in Europe this summer.it is above all a Zionist scam “By Deception we shall make War” remember that the Mossad ‘logo’. Like I said about 6 months ago either way you will get a President for Israel NOT for the US. That’s the pitiful condition we have reached here so spare me all the Trump ‘outrage’ It’s just ridiculous nit picking and ignores a very big elephant in the room but that’s par for the course now.
Jack and Phil,
The revelations that came out about Trump the misogynistic sexual predator made headline news here in the UK and after the barrage of justifiable criticism aimed at him in the wake of it, it was to be expected that he would typically go into full on attack mode in the debate. And that was mostly what happened as I saw it watching the highlights, though as you both say, and as pundits have be saying, he did seem to be more coherent than the last debate. Like he had actually done some preparation. But how much of that and what he said was truthful and based on fact remains to be seen. Judging by his incredible comment “No one has more respect for women than me” probably not much. What a classic Trumpism…! Hillary said afterwards that she was taken aback by the sheer avalanche of untruths coming at her in the debate. According to fact checker Politifact, he is the most untruthful political candidate they have ever reviewed, with 70% of what he says being false. Trump may have clawed his way back a little after the tape revelations but I think he must be past the point of no return with probably more revelations to come.
David – if you were living in the Middle East you might feel very different but I understand primallers don’t seem to able to feel very much that being sorry for themselves. If you are looking for some broad vision or empathy with them you will be waiting a long time. Small thinking for small people.
“if you were living in the Middle East you might feel very different but I understand primallers don’t seem to able to feel very much that being sorry for themselves.”
Just like Trump, who you seem to enjoy defending so much, a good deal of what you say makes no sense.
> Trump often reminds me of someone.
> M
Ha Ha Ha Margaret very funny. And you have more of less no clue of what you are talking about. Stick to beleving some Muslims blew up your airport there that’s about your level
A good point. There is the bullying, insults, incoherence, and conspiracy theories.
Margaret: Me too.
Jack
This kind of primaller chorus pisses me off and it so similar to all the nonsense in the media all the time. I would have expected something a bit better or at least something a bit different but nope
Looks like Trump could use some plasticity for his brain–meaning an ability to change and grow. In a PBS segment about the candidates’ lives growing up Donald’s military boarding school chum said they all talked ‘locker room talk’ about women when they were young teens but Donald never outgrew it. Arrested development.
If I were going to church for the music and I didn’t like how the choir was singing, I’d go to a different church.
If David, or anyone else for that matter, was living now in the Middle East they would probably be making urgent plans to be or actually heading west toward Europe. If they were in Africa they would be heading north toward Europe. In fact, this is exactly what they have been doing for the past several years.
And those Middle Easterners, for some strange reason, do not flee east to The Islamic Republic of Iran, or voyage north in an attempt to get to Russia. Nor do Africans head east trying to make it across the Red Sea to Saudi Arabia or Yemen. No, for some bizarre reason they prefer the freedom and hope of the west over the intolerance and fanaticism current in their towns and villages, and over freedom’s many opposites that await them in directions other than west. So poor are their current prospects and so strong is their hope that they are willing to risk their lives for a chance to get there and perhaps, just perhaps, provide themselves and their children with a better future.
But while this mixture of tragedy and hope takes place, there in the west sits a free, well-fed, relatively well-financed white man, biting and betraying the hand that feeds him – the same hand all those millions of Middle Easterners and Africans are pining for. And doing so he’s spitting in the face of those refugees and their aspirations for freedom, those caring parents who seek a better chance for their children.
“What you’re running from, what you want to leave behind, is not real”, he’s telling them, “there is no radical Islamic terror. The jihadists of the Thai province of Jala, the Afgan Taliban, the Moros of Mindanao in the Philippines, the various Syrian jihadists, ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, Boko Haram in Nigeria, the Uyghur militants of Xinjiang in western China, or the Al-Qaida affiliates in Yemen, North Africa and Niger are just figments of your imagination. And the reasons that led you to immigrate and seek the west of all places, or to leave radical Islam behind – the attacks, mass killings and kidnappings, the beheadings, from China and the Philippines to Syria and Nigeria, from New York and Boston to Paris and Brussels – are just lies that have been pushed down your throat by the same West you’re trying so desperately to reach”.
“Believe me when I tell you so”, he continues, “you have no idea. But I do. Billions of people worldwide, and Intelligence services anywhere – organizations with huge budgets and state-of-the-art equipment – have all been fooled and brainwashed. But not me. Unlike the Western political, military, intelligence and populous chorus, my mind is clear and I see through it. They may have fooled the best of them but they haven’t fooled me.
You know, there are those small people with small thinking and then there is me.”
Daniel: I disagree with a lot of what you post in this comment. I feel there is a great need to admit to what history tells us … should we be informed about most of it.
Coming from a country that almost colonized the world I see a great deal of why we British were hated. It was not hard to see. The problem started to take a great hold with the advent of Religion and in particular with the monotheistic religions. Judaism being the first laid the ground work, then was followed by some Jews that claimed the Messiah had come and gone. Forming the now most popular of them all with Christianity. Islam being of a more recent incarnation was badly treated by Christianity and Western Democracies.
It is the very word “democracy” meaning government by the people that is the anachronism. The people never did govern themselves except perhaps pre-history. Following the first two religions, most are becoming secular, “non believers”, but are hanging onto ethnicity. Why we humans concentrate so much on our differences rather than our commonalities; is something I find that is never discussed.
I know not quite why Islamic countries set up dictatorships or, at best near dictatorships and that is the reason for the conflicts in these countries, BUT I do not see Western Democracies as being very much better. However, that might be the reason that peoples of countries that are more repressed seek to come to lands that seemingly are less repressed. That I find natural and normal. Who wouldn’t?????
How might it all be changed … I do not have an answer, but I have suggested that we try to abolish that, that keeps repression in place and separate The most egregious being that, that keeps us separate (namely:- the haves and the have not’s). Religion is a BELIEF SYSTEM at best and the essence of “belief” suggest we do not know. If we knew; we state that we know and not digress to a half-way word.
Jack
My poor wife keeps coming into my room while i am trying to research getting a laptop for her to take on her journey to the midwest. She needs more money for this, for that. She needs to go to school 2 more years. she needs stuff. why cant i pay her carecredit bill so her teeth dont fall out. she is making sure she drives me nuts, because she must know that once she leaves, i will probably not answer the phone ever again. ha yhayhayhayayauyerfsa
It would really be nice if when i woke up from my nap, that i did not immediately get flooded with all the death and destruction that has occurred in my life. oh well.
> Quod erat demonstrandum…
> M
> meaning thanks Patrick for proving my point!
> M
An interesting analysis of Trump. If true, it sounds like he could benefit from attending a retreat.
“Donald Trump’s Sad Lonely Life”
Here’s another piece I really liked, portraying Trump to be also a heart-rending character desperately knocking on the doors of the elite, begging to be let in.
I’d be interested in his childhood.
Erron: I saw a documentary on PBS “Front Line” about both Clinton and Trump and their early lives. Trump I gathered, had a daddy more or less like himself, and he bought into his daddy’s ways.
Jack
Cheers, Jack.
You know when you read a piece like this from the optimist Garrison Keillor, we are in trouble. Trump does look like the guy who arrives in town to announce the closing of the pulp factory in that baseball cap. A little reminiscent of Bernie Madoff too on his way to jail. Thanks Daniel.
S
Thanks for the Sad-Lonely Life video Phil – again such an apt reminder of someone else.
Phil. I liked the op-ed piece by David Brooks of Trump’s sad lonely life and his inability to relate to people.
On a different note, here is a solution to a tomato worm problem you might have–who wants to smash them–rather, feed them to a hungry lizard. This reptile reminds me of Donald the Trump around the eyes a bit; probably as feeling-less too, or rather cortex-impaired.
Sylvia
Ha ha ha!!! that’s a good one!
A respite from what looks like the continued erosion and corruption of American political culture:
Daniel: Empires come and go and it’s my feeling The US is now on the way out. Who comes next is anyone’s guess, but it might be no-one at all. Why not give that a try??? What is all this about dominance and wanting to have it all ones own way?
In effect it’s all Primal going back to childhood, perhaps womb-hood. I personally would like to see it where no-one has any control any other. Sadly, I doubt that will ever take place in my lifetime, BUT I do feel we are headed in that direction. When, how and where it might starts is again, anyone’s guess … if anywhere at all. It could be the ultimate doom of us homo sapiens. For the sake of those to come I would like to hope not.
Maybe this is all head tripping on my part. An old habit that seems to die hard. Can we not live with love, caring and co-operation without all this competition, fighting and controlling others?
Jack
Daniel, I’d seen this already. Very funny 🙂
Daniel
I had a good laugh with this!
That’s a much more enjoyable debate
Thanks,
Phl
Too funny Daniel ! – thanx.
gravity. such a struggle to stay alive. it happens.
Well, look, we all know the tread worn arguments against Trump by now; it’s just that if Hillary gets elected it will be another boring, standard milquetoast presidency for four long years.
At least with Trump you know there will be lots of scarily exciting developments and entertaining fireworks during his presidency. Wouldn’t that add a lot of spice and conversational fodder to peoples’ lives? This is why I am seriously considering voting for Trump; if he fucks everything up big time it will still be fun and exciting to read the news for years to come and save Americans a lot of extra money on their cable TV or pay-on-demand movie bills.
It will be similar to adults re-visiting the scary excitement of haunted houses we once freaked out on as kids, not knowing what scary danger may lurk around the corner in the next room just as we don’t know the next scary words coming out of the corner of Trump’s mouth.
Make America exciting again.
Well, that’s a thought Guru. I’m afraid all I’d look forward to is a swift impeachment over some of his inevitable questionable dealings. The way he is so short of breath just talking I think he might be in for a brainstem stroke. And that would leave us with a boring Pence.
I never was one for scary haunted houses; guess I’m timid.
S
Sylvia: If you are referring to Trump’s sniffing a lot, it’s worth noting that Carrie Fisher adamantly believes it is from cocaine insufflation. See how this is but only one small instance of the many nuggets of excitement Trump can provide for all of us in the years ahead?
Make America Grate Again
Guru, poor little Carrie Fisher has had too many electro shock treatments. Am worried about her. I think Trump has gained weight is why he is having trouble with his wind; windy though he be.
S
guru. thanks for the austin powers bit. unfortunately, very close to reality for a lot of people.
> went to the study center this afternoon to work on getting to know the scientific search engines a bit better.
> pretty intimidating but managed to find 139 peer reviewed its in one go, about a subject my fellow study mate and me have to write a paper about.
> managed to mail an extract to myself and to her, and to open my own folder there. on epnet, mailed by Ephost@epnet.com and searched with Psych for the interested. amazing what those engines can do, and the well organized ways in which they present the material.
> just a start, a tiny step towards what we need to do, but it feels good to know it is feasible up to some level..
> and hey, I managed to find material my fellow student had said she could hardly find anything about, don’t know why she couldn’t, maybe she searched in Dutch, or maybe she used the term ADHD as in Dutch instead of attention deficit disorder as I did, in combination with motivation and performance.
> for a first exercise attempt it felt pretty successful really.
> our designed subject in general is motivation and success, or performance, depending on the translation, and as she has a kid with ADD she would like to add that as a direction to work in.
> the course is Literature study, part of the 6 statistics courses, and we have to come up with a ‘preparative literature study with a start of a research design’, with proper hypotheses and research questions and a further research plan. that in combination with full reports of our search plans and results etc.
> loads of work, loads of searching and loads of reading, and then we also have to comment on the literature we find..
> my deadline is already in March, and we have to send in a few first attempts to have them corrected and commented upon before the final paper, but the corrections can stay away for up to six weeks…
> and I am still working on my Philosophy course for which I planned the exam the last week of november…
> won’t be bored in the next months…
> my fellow student works and has kids etc., and is a perfectionist, and lives at some distance, so it is a big challenge to make it all work. we have to or can work in pairs, and deliver one joined paper.
> scary but also kind of exciting.
> oh yes, and there is a big book with guidelines on how the references should be written, with obligatory spaces, dots, komma’s and italic or capitals, square or round brackets etc.
> all different depending on the source and format etc…
>
> sigh..
> sorry , probably not interesting for most of you guys, but it does feel good to share it in some way..
> haha, am listening to the news at the same time as writing this mail, and hear Obama say Trump is not even fit to work in a 7/11..
> he seems to be having a good time, Obama I mean, sounds like he is having fun.
> Trump has set himself up for all of this, so no pity here really.
> haha, and Trump called up his voters to vote for him on the wrong date, 3 weeks over time..
> I will have to start pitying him at some point after all..
> M
Deep Sniff, sniff…deep breath..Ahhhhhhh, see? Fresh air, more blog breathing room. Compared to the Remembering Summer page it’s like a tropical Colombian or Bolivian paradise in here!
Guru: Donald Trump’s recent statements to the New York Times reporter: If it is true, it makes him a ‘lying braggart’, if he’s lying then it makes him a ‘lying coward’. Either way he’s a liar. You seeming like this liar!!!!
Another hyperbole:- … “Jack’s cure page 3 again? This page is much harder to load with over 1,100 entries ” It’s 545 recorded on my wordpress page.
Jack
This is exactly what I wrote. Word-for-word. Verbatim:
“I have a request for the blog participants: Could we carry this conversation forward on the Jack’s cure page 3 again? This page is much harder to load with over 1,100 entries while the newest page still has breathing room (500-600 entries).Thank you.”
Guru: Not totally accurate, but thanks for the corrections. Not sure in that case what you are trying to say. I thought you were complaining that it was hard to access the blog … BUT seemingly you were on the wrong page. I was ‘summer retreat 4 if I have it correct.
Jack
Correct: “remembering Summer.
Jack
“Election landslide would be a rebuke to bigotry and bullying” headline in today’s Guardian. Nothing unusual about that you will find similar ones everyday there and not only there the NY Times, Washington Post etc etc more lurid ones in Huffington Post. I dunno it seems such ‘received wisdom’ oh like we in the West are somehow getting better and better less ‘racist’ less ‘homophobic’ less ‘misogynistic’ and not to start anything but probably less ‘anti Semitic’. Someone called this in a different context James Kunstler I think it was doing ‘victory laps’. I am tempted to say we might be getting ‘;better’ in our own narcissistic minds but things are getting worse.Just an opinion but that is mine. We might be ‘better’ but will we stop bombing ‘tribes’ mostly Arabs NO! will we stop our ‘climate engineering’ which we officially don’t even do NO! of course not we don’t even do it. We don’t even bomb that many Arabs do we? (We do)
Reminds me last Sunday I ran into this guy I ‘know’ at Whole Foods I throw that detail in to show I am at least in some ways ok anything this guy is I am pretty sure ‘homeless’ or maybe living in a van. Anyway I don’t like to pry into those things it seems rude to ask “Are you homeless” plus if the answer is “yes” there might be an expectation to do something about it so best to avoid imo. The guy is Irish-American and always seems to like to talk to me I think he has that kind of Irish nostalgia I remind him of where he has come from kind of thing. Anyway the guy is nice and I have always found him well informed etc etc. There are a few ‘sprayers’ in the sky but also the whole sky is acquiring that kind of silvery white horrible look not like real clouds. Coming from Ireland I figured he would know what a real cloud looked like so I just waved at the sky and said what do you think of all this then? He goes ‘oh chemtrails’. I say ‘you know about that’ he says ‘yes’ I go ‘how long’ Answer ‘oh since about 2004’ I go ‘really? He says ;’yes I knew this guy who was a pilot in the miltary and he told me there were 30 different ‘agendas’ to chemtrails. So we try to name a few……………weather engineering, create droughts, the ability to ‘project holograms’ to convince people of something to fool people etc etc
Anyway it struck me to get something approaching a real insight into what is happening in the world maybe better ask a ‘homeless guy’. I mean the guy knew a lot but it’s nothing you will find in any of the ‘respectable’ papers or in any ‘opinions’ section anywhere. You will not find a whiff of it in any of the papers I have mentioned above.It’s a kind of sad and desperate situation we have reached and I am reminded for example Daniel saying the “Enlightenment” is threatened well it seems to me it is ‘threatened’ because it ‘failed’. All so called ‘enlightened opinion’ is now useless on our real problems. And I do believe that is part of Trump’s appeal also he might look and sound ‘stupid’ or whatever but people feel instinctively so let down by ‘received wisdom’ representd by the likes of Hillary. If you think ‘business as usual’ is ok then vote for her if you keep some small hope of a possible change then don’t maybe. It’s a pity Trump is not a better candidate and all his nonsense about ‘banning muslims’ and how great a deal Iran got makes me think in the end he is in the pocket of the same characters just another buffoonish President for Israel as it seems you have to be to get even this far.
Is it my imagination or faulty memory but since I have come back about 10 days ago there are very few ‘sunrises’ a lot of cloud cover during the morning clears up later but then you can still see plenty of white nasty looking ‘clouds’ actually not clouds should be called ‘aerosols’ and usually a few planes spraying. Would make sense even LA eventually gets little sunshine and gradually the ‘dome of ignorance’ will be complete. Without real sunshine people get ‘depressed’ and ‘stupid;’ it seems to be happening and deliberately so. If this is a real and deliberate program I would like to see the “Enlightenment” struggle with and it and try to explain it. But they are probably too much rooting out ‘racism’ and ‘homophobia’ and all the other ‘ailments’ of our modern life
Phil,
I’ve found witnessing an accident can be almost as distressing as being in one. A couple of years ago I was stopped behind a fire engine at a traffic light. When the light turned green, the fire engine moved off and then very quickly slammed into a coach that had arrived at the intersection from an approach road that wasn’t visible, knocking the coach on it’s side. I dodged the accident and pulled over. I thought of checking it out, but I noticed the seemingly unaffected firemen were already trying to get inside the coach to help. I guess for the people inside having men in uniform right there was the one plus point to being hit by a fire engine. But I felt in shock for a good half hour afterwards after seeing that. It was like something out of a movie. Glad that you seem pretty much OK about everything.
David,
Witnessing the accident did leave me in a kind of state of shock. I just sat there and didn’t do anything until other people approached the smashed car.
It was effected for hours afterward. It’s a good reminder to make sure to drive carefully.
It turns out that the law enforcement people did want my statement about the accident; that the driver had gone right through the red light.
Song
Patrick; I have a couple of questions about these chemtrails you keep mentioning.
!) What are they supposedly in aid of, according to you “chemtail pals?” and who’s paying for them. It must be expensive to create them.
2) What are the so called side effect of them, according to you?????
You do seem particularly upset about them. Does it make you cry, angry, bitter, afraid, OR just plain give you something to complain about, then write about them.
Hope you answer these couple of question. Somehow I doubt you will, BUT I could be wrong once again.
Jack
Jack: rather than me trying to explain something I am not that good at if you are interested this is a kind of basic primer on the subject . It’s called “what in the world are they spraying”. If that piques your interest there is a follow up “WHY in the world are they spraying us?” which you can get on youtube
Patrick: I read that one but was not convinced the main argument was thatit was addatives to jet fuel (kerosene), in order to give better thrust for jets. Their suggestion was that it was aluminum, but that to me is veer implausible. If that is the case anyway then it’s the oil companies who are doing it. If that is the case all it would require is that the oil companies are investigated. A relatively simple task.
The second question was that it was adding to pollution of the air and causing ‘adds’ Alzheimer’s and other problems. If that is the case I think we could analyze the atmosphere and get a definitive answer. I think then the EPA could get into this game, BUT seemingly they are not.
I did wonder at you lack of being able to answer those questions since they’d been answered in the very links you provided.
Jack
Jack I don’t want to get into any ‘insane discussions’ with you. Even what you say above makes little sense to me. Maybe you are just getting old you are doing pretty good for 84 I suppose.
You are correct .. I am getting old. Not much I can do ab out it, BUT not for the want of trying.
Jack
> Patrick, maybe your personal cloud followed you over the ocean to cover your personal sunrise..
> we have had a record year of sunshine over here, so well, I must be going the opposite way of stupid then, ha!
> M
Margaret: interesting you should say that as my friend in Amsterdam said much the same thing. For sure that was not the situation in Ireland and that is something I noticed while over there you can have vast differences in temps etc in places not so far apart. Like in September the UK has the hottest ever Sep day (they said) and that same day in Ireland it was miserable and cold. I take most all of that as being more indication of interfering with the weather. I watched the weather forecast carefully everyday while over there and there are many indications of changes from what my understanding of what ‘weather’ used to be. My brother whose powers of observation is quite a bit better than mine agrees with that also. We also watched the skies everyday and good quite good at deciding what were ‘real clouds’ and ‘fake clouds’. There usually were at least as many fakes as real. A few days though there were only real clouds and it was like a sigh of relief that’s what weather used to be like, that’s what weather should be like.
Patrick, there are extremely sensitive measuring devices the world over that can measure the contents of the atmosphere down to parts per billion. If there was a plot to poison us or manipulate us or the weather with chemtrails or whatever the theory is, we would surely know about it and there would be a very big uproar. Put it another way, if we can know the makeup of stars millions of light years away, we can surely know the contents of our own atmosphere with a very high degree of accuracy. Or do you think that the holders of this data are all in on the conspiracy? It amazes me that you can’t see the absurdity in your ideas.
Well David my instant reaction is we SHOULD know that’s also of course assuming we DO know the makeup of stars millions of light years away. Do we? Probably not actually we ‘know’ something now until we will be ‘told’ oh maybe 20 years from now that actually it was all the opposite of what we thought.
But to try to keep to the subject I find your faith in ‘official science’ almost touching. There is so much corruption, incompetence and mostly people just accepting what they are told (learned in quotes n school) Like you even a few years ago I would not have thought like this but I do now. So first off I believe my own eyes and my brother who is a farmer there and has no agenda one way or the other. He just sees all his possibilities running away as far as keeping a farm and it does have to do with the weather. “official science’ has so much ‘lies’; in it I know hard to believe but if you follow your eyes and your instincts I believe you might get there…………..
When I say we live in a world of lies I am not saying this for shock effect……………………it’s a kind of desperate state of affairs but if you can be so confident and calm in believing what you are told good for you I suppose but that would not be me at this point………..
Not only do we know the make up of stars but we know the makeup of planets that pass in front of them as well, and can tell if they are earth like or not. Earth like worlds are called Exoplanets I believe. It’s quite a hot topic in science and there’s been a fair bit about it on the news, if you watch that. Or do you just watch people like Morris and Co on the internet? Of course science is evolving and not flawless. But it is common sense to me that any chemicals beyond “normal” industrial pollution would have been picked up on and reported by now.
I don’t put much store in any of this. It is not even agreed what is going on in our own sun. The ‘theory’ that was ‘gospel’ for years that it was like some giant Thermo-Nuclear controlled ‘bomb’ in the sky is now more and more not being accepted. Even as a child I used to think ‘aren’t they one day going to run out of fuel’ well it turns out that was probably a very good question. How could a ‘fuel supply’ like hydrogen last for billions of years. Now they talk about an “Electric Sun” which does at least seem to make more sense. So much of this is a matter of ‘believing what we are told’ which I suppose is fine if what we are being told is not some load of rubbish. And I’m afraid a lot of what we are being told is not that sound
So what’s your cut off point? What DO you put store in? Do you believe the earth is round or flat?
I don’t go for ‘flat earth theory’ no I don’t. Speaking of Morris he brought that up and as ones of his ‘proofs’ or let’s say inclination to believe the earth was round was the fact that children maybe especially boys are absolutely fascinated by balls of all kinds. One of my earliest memories is of my aunt tossing a brightly colored ball to me…………….and it wAS fascinating. I have loved sports all my life especially a sport that involved a ball. So there maybe not the most ‘scientific’ of tests but I found that interesting. Maybe put another way IF the earth really was flat would we as creatures on it be fascinated by a ball of any and all kinds as we seemingly are. David I will let you supply the ‘science’ but I did find that very interesting. That’s one reason I like guys like Morris so much they do seem truly to be ‘outside the box’ or at least a lot of the boxes we take for granted.. So you don’t ‘get’ me for flat earthing now the moon landings that’s another matter entirely……..
Quote:- ” I have loved sports all my life especially a sport that involved a ball.” Interesting; for that and your business there was noting else you seemed to love. You did try you luck with two women that I’m aware of, but not sure you actually got to the loving part. AND that’s very sad.
Jack
Viper slithers from his lair deposits his poison then slithers back……..
There are plenty of proven things to be concerned about like climate change, the possibility of nuclear war, terrorism or you name it. I find it better to avoid too many negative stories, especially when there’s nothing much I can do about it all anyway. Those conspiracy stories, why look at those? What is the attraction?
A better place to look for the truth, your truth, is inside yourself.
Phil
“BOOM BOOM BOOM” she said, “once he gets back”. my wife refers to the kid who flew in last night and will be throwing his remaining stuff into a truck, and driving himself, her, and his dog to champagne, the long way. probably the cold way, route 66? anyway, tomorrow, i will be alone with the dog with skin-eating bacteria and the fungus-ridden cat who finally went blind yesterday and is probably at death’s door. plenty of l.a. sunshine here, looks to be fucking hot again IN FUCKING OCTOBER. i will be alone with a trashy yard and trashed house (she did clean up somethings so the kid would not rermember what slobs we are). She says the strangest of things, and some strange ones as it took us an hour to get out of lax last night. i worry she is headed for dementia. i wont miss her till much later. me alone with the bills and more overtime. the dog to be alone all days while i am at work (wife has worked at home for years, so at least she had some companionship during the day while she was locked in my bedroom, away from the monster dog who is now departing. boom boom boom. if z ever comes back, the monster dog will be alone all day in champagne or ohio, while the kid is at work. sick cat is outside in the son, i took off work to help kid get his stuff out of storage. i wish i had a 10 pound roast beef, i would eat it all to kill some pain. not going to group tonight, not a good time and broke as ever. we spent thousands on the black cat who is very near to the end. one bright spot, we got our 2015 taxes finished, and we only owe 4,000 bucks. hahahahahaha. l.a. sunshine. praise god that i dont have a heart attack or get killed on the freeway driving to work someday. the lonesome wiener dog in my bedroom will be waiting for me forever and ever . oh boy i am happier than shit to be alive.
boy will i miss her barging into my bedroom at will and saying she needs more money for hormones and other pills (like she just did). NOT. HA! or telling me what new part of her body is falling apart. NOT! HA! such intimacy! well i wont miss the sex we havent had for 6 months. HA!
Here’s a song sung by a Noble Laureate:
And here is a very unusual speech – a wonderful read – by that same Nobel Laureate.
Bob Dylan was always one of my favorites. Even his latest albums are good, though his singing voice is gone. He’s very deserving of that prize.
Speaking of absurd ideas, here’s an amusing clip of physicist Brian Cox confronting the absurd ideas of Malcolm Roberts, a climate change denier. I notice more and more that people believe whatever they want to believe irrespective of the facts.
David,
I liked that video. You notice that : people will believe whatever they want, irrespective of the facts. Yes and they can come up with all kinds of explanations such as the data was manipulated,
or whatever.
Also deniers are often conservative religious believers. Something like climate change apparently challenges their religious teachings.
This article talks about that:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/05/29/this-fascinating-chart-on-faith-and-climate-change-denial-has-been-reinforced-by-new-resea
I wish I knew how to rename a link here. I haven’t been able to find out how to do that.
Phil
Phil, interesting, thanks for the link. The results don’t really surprise me. If I was to hazard a guess as to why very religious people are more inclined towards climate change denial, it’s because they have their own explanation for the increase in floods, hurricanes and wildfires, which ties in with their own beliefs in an end-of-days. They are not going to give credence to any ideas or even facts that contradict their own belief that they will be saved when the imminent end of times happen. These ideas are also very convenient for letting you off the hook when it comes to taking responsibility for what’s happening to the planet. Just my take.
David, Margaret and Phil: If one was to just think how religion is imbued into innocent and very vulnerable children it is just another trauma … usually done by implying the wrath of some demon in the sky that is about to damn near kill us, just to make the kid comply with fucked-up parents wanting to MAKE their children into what they think he/she should be made into.
Which brings me to the point of believing. Its a verb … a doing word … that in reality means ‘we do NOT know’ as opposed to knowing. If we knew we would say “I know”; but to have to admit we do not know is very disturbing … to the ego.
Patrick is FULL of beliefs. We, to Patrick, are all idiots, or at best sheep and he’s so wise and full of wisdom, which eludes me, but then I am so easy to elude Ask him to answer a question and he’ll find the cheapest of excuses for not wanting to get into the argument.
I’ve know this guy for far too long. Sure! he’s known me for the same amount of time.
I will say this; he does keep the blog alive … even if it all on the wrong things. But hey hoo!!!!
Jack
Thanks Jack that is nice what you say about me keeping the blog alive even if in a ‘bad’ way. I guess I would rather be alive in a bad way that dead in a good way.
> David, that was very well worded, about the ‘chemtrails’ theory.
> I seem to remember Patrick once taking samples as to find proof by having them analized, but as we did not hear about the results afterwards I assume he kept a convenient silence about them being negative after all…
>
> it is true there are here and there actions being taken to make it rain or to prevent it, by using products sprayed over clouds to which I do not approve as they are possibly toxic indeed, but as far as I know it is not a common use and it is not a secret either.
> but hey, information seems to be used by Patrick in a selective way as to only support all the conspiracy theories.
> the big reality of effects of climate change are conveniently ignored as well as to be able to blame weather change effects to the conspiracies of mostly you know who…
>
> sigh..
> M
Margaret, I wasn’t aware that Patrick had mentioned about doing his own research. Must have been from before I joined the blog. Yes, I wonder what happened to all of that…
I did do rainwater tests in the West of Ireland and yes I have to admit the levels of aluminum were not particularly high some people said they were even low. I suppose I should have mentioned it and actually it was a great ‘relief’ to my brother and myself at least in that test it did not show massive amounts of aluminum raining down on the place. At the same time we both just kind of watched the weather and the skies every day and it is not encouraging. As far as the low levels of aluminum out there the weather is quite ‘wild’ lot of wind and storms so any one test is probably not that telling.
I don’t know if any of you watched the movie “What in the world are they spraying” but there is plenty there about rain water tests in Northern California, Hawaii etc. Also it not a case of ‘denying’ (that word again!) climate change or global warming it is more a matter of finding out just how sound the ‘theory’ is what purposes/agendas is it being used for and what is the role of the geo engineering (chemtrails etc) in that picture. Dane Wigiginton one of the main people in this movement believes BOTH ‘global warming’ AND what we are doing about it are massive problems. I suspect he is on the right track he is a serious guy and I would ‘follow’ him more that some twit who has come out of some ‘good’ school and who is ‘amazed’ that not everyone accepts his ‘graphs’. Anyone can make a graph and to ‘prove’ anything.
Talking about believing what we are told here is Kevin Barrett’s take on the election here. I could n’t have put it better.
“Look at the current election in America – Trump talks about Iranian nuclear weapons that don’t exist and Hillary talks about a Russian threat that is fabricated from thin air; voters are fighting each other to the death, not over their favorite candidates but which lies they prefer.”
OK i am now alone with the soon-to-be-very-lonely dachshund and the very sick cat. Z and kid are gone for their adventure driving to champagne. dangerous adventure, as evidenced by kid’s agressive driving. monster dog is with them and will never see the beloved back yard again;.EVER. Bill collectors calling but i cant fi nd the phone. cat is dying in the cupboard. i will never see the monster dog again, she is already 10 and going to be living 3000 miles away. she liked to come into the bathroom and have her back and legs stroked. no more. at least it is not a million degrees today. if i have to take the cat in to put him to sleep, it will be devastating. i am not over the last pet i had to put to sleep. it was gruesome. that dog really wanted to live and was very afraid of what was happening. uyou know people could say i am rich and lucky, but i say life sucks. god is waiting for me to have a tiny bit of hope again, then he has picked out a size 12 metal shoe, ready to be thrown at my head.
do you think i should cry? i dont want to, this is fucking terrible.
Otto: Do it anyway …………… then see where it takes you.
Could be a pleasant surprise.
Jack
Otto,
I hope you can go ahead and cry if you feel the need. I guess you’re alone there now.except for the pets. How does that feel? More opportunity to let loose, unless the neighbors are a problem.
> Patrick,
> any good arguments why your skepticism about sciences like astronomy and metereology and the assumed corruption of almost anyone would not apply to the conspiracy theorists themselves?
> and well, our senses are not infallible, but very much influenced by our beliefs and expectations, like one person would see fake clouds where another one would simply see the variety of clouds that has always existed, plus the trails that existed since jet planes started to leave them high up in the frosty parts of the atmosphere.
> I hear no sound arguments to prove your views as opposed to what you refer to as the ‘conventional’ ones.
> conventional is not an insult but refers to what most people agree on.
> and today in France there is a remembrance of the Nice massacre, 2500 family members and close friends of the victims.
> all actors probably, and the whole press as conspirors etc.
> and yes yes the pictures, have you ever heard of pictures sold by people to press photographers as they have their way into the publishers world?
> but well, I am wasting my time here as you stick to your beliefs no matter waht as they serve some kind of goal.
> not a problem but why do you keep trying to persuade us against all odds?
> M
Margaret,
These are good points. It’s also easy to forget all the things we have because of science. Computers and the internet. Jet planes which can fly to Ireland. All kinds of amazing health care devices and surgeries; xrays, CAT scans, MRI, and organ transplants. Bad things too, like nuclear weapons, unless we want to deny those exist.
What have those conspiracy “scientists” given us. My guess is absolutely nothing. Just crazy ideas to causing anxiety.
I wonder if there are any conspiracies about good things happening. Maybe some planes are secretly cleaning up the atmosphere. Maybe the Jews have a secret plot to save the world and bring peace to mankind. With no real evidence needed, we can make up whatever we want. Why can’t some of it be good things?
Phil
Margaret – you say that I would think about the Nice memorials ” all actors probably, and the whole press as conspirors etc” NO that is not what I am saying. I am sure most of the people there truly believe 84 people were run down by a truck with no blood on it afterwards the point is I believe they are mistaken. As far as the ‘pictures’ are concerned are you talking about the SAME photographer/journalist who also ‘just happened’ to be in Munich about a week later to take ‘pictures’ also. We have these ‘pictures’ but NO pictures from cell phones or CCTV have you noticed. In fact in Nice the local police were ordered to destroy all CCTV pictures. Now I wonder why that could possibly be?
Patrick: Janov has just put out an article about suicide that you might care to read. Hopefully there after you will REALIZE that those that did commit suicide after coming to the institute did not kill themselves because of the therapy. Their reason laid deep in early child-hood and perhaps womb-hood.
I hope that settles the matter about an issue you’ve long blamed on the therapy. Will you????. I tend to doubt it … since as I see you (over all these years) YOU are the one “STUCK IN A BOX”. BUT refuse to even look at it.
Jack
I read the article and found it as usual I might say a bit ‘one sided’ but I did not think about something which you now bring up. Is he perhaps justifying his own very disastrous record in that area by putting it all down to something that happened long ago and far away in the person’s life? It might serve him for his won peace of mind to think of it like that but I don’t think it would pass muster in any ‘court’ either in a literal or metaphorical sense. As I remember he was not shy about blaming Dr Drew for suicides associated with Dr Drew’s TV show………..presumably there also were all ’caused’ by some distant events in infancy and ‘womb-hood’ but Janov did not take that attitude at all in relation to Dr Drew. Why I wonder the double standard? How come Dr Drew was at fault even though he never even ‘treated’ those people and Janov is not at fault even though he did treat his patients? Questions questions which I suspect you do not have any good answers for so no that ‘settles’ nothing imo……….
Quote:- “I read the article and found it as usual I might say a bit ‘one sided’”. What;s the other side?????? The Jewish conspiracy?
Then later another quote:- “Can I say “enough” to all this psycho-analyzing” My suggestion is:- “Can we say enough of Patrick’s Hypocrisy and conspiracy theories????”
Jack
I believe that Janov was talking about the way Dr. Drew was saying that there is no cure for addiction and not looking for the origin and solution to the need for drugs that can lie in the addict’s early history. The celebrity treatments seemingly relies on cognitive behavior approach. As I read the article by Dr. Janov, he faults Drew as not providing or acknowledging even that addiction can be cured. Not much help for those who suffer.
The article appears on the Janov Center website of January 14, 2014
http://cigognenews.blogspot.com/2014/01/is-addiction-incurable.html
Most of us on this blog understand that until we can face it, we need some way to divert and discharge our primal pain. As I see it, after Patrick stopped arguing so much with Jack, he needed another diversion and drifted more and more into his alternate reality that he argues with all of us about. So in a way in our arguing we provide him with diversion from his pain, which is not a bad thing except this therapy at it’s core ultimately is not about helping with diversion.
> I have been working my way through a course of philosophy of science for the last months, with all possible views with regard to science and knowledge being mentioned and elaborated in (too much) detail from the last say 2600 years.
> going from rationalism and empiricism in the early days to present day naturalism, constructive empiricism etc, having passed through logical positivism and scientific realism and pragmatism and all kinds of variations of the theme.
> one thing I can say in favour of science is that o
> in the long run it is self-correcting, and usually it does not pretend to own complete certainty about truth, more well informed hypotheses that are empiricallyy checked and can be falsified at any given moment, or corroborated, until other evidence would come up.
> even while a constructive empiricist like Van Fraassen accepts agnosticism about unobservables and their true nature, he too is convinced science is one of the best ways to get to know the structures of our reality. and that while also leaving space and credit for other ways of learning about our fascinating world, science is one of the many ways, but a valuable one.
> and of course this does not mean there are no ethics involved, on the contrary, they are very important and most scientists will run into them at some point and will have to search their own conscience about which investigations to do or avoid.
> it is an interesting but difficult course, a lot of work and complicated to learn and to remember.
> making cheap generalisations about the credibility of science does not come across as very bright to say the least. to most of us..
> M
> Patrick, what you say is simply not true.
> there were plenty of cellphone images, and if some of the cc images would be ‘destroyed’ like you say, which I doubt, it would probably be to protect the family of the victims and others from being confronted with gruesome pictures of their loved ones in the tabloids.
> and this is the last thing I am gonna say about this as it is too crazy and unhealthy a discussion to my taste.
> M
I became aware some time ago that the only thing I KNOW, to be true was what I am feeling … even though there are times when I don’t fully acknowledge what my feeling is. To concern myself with what is true and what is false is irrelevant, to me in the final analysis.
I did earn on doing my ‘school leavingn certificate’; I was given a distinction in mathematics and physics. I got a credit in geography and history. I got merely a pass in English language and I failed in English literature. I never did Chemistry and dropped French in my final year.
To attempt to find the truth is; less necessay to me, than trying to prove it. Or trying to decide what maybe false.
I am quite happy to stay with what my feeling are, then if necessary expressing it. All else is a side issue IMO
Jack
I got an oxygen concentrator so if the cat wakes me up in the middle of the night gasping for air, i can at least try to make him comfortable. i ate some bread and butter and picked up some empty cans that my dog had gotten to. mom! MOM! are you listening to me.
A great article that touches on the childhood history of Donald trump, and Hillary Clinton. Significantly, Trump has no memory of his youth, let alone his childhood. It’s also an insightful critique into how society can facilitate the rise of such a person in the first place.
“Donald Trump, narcissism and diagnosis as political sport” by Gabor Maté
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/donald-trump-narcissism-and-diagnosis-as-political-sport/article32368690/
I wish all voters had the insight demonstrated by the author of that article.
I’ll ditto that!
That’s a well written analysis. Not very hopeful either, in that we choose such traumatized individuals as leaders. We have to go by what we see outwardly
and to me Trump should get no where near the presidency. That he is so close is
a very poor reflection on us.
I see the leaders who are chosen are a reflection of the mental and emotional health of the community electing them.
Can
Or analyse this when the whole country of Libya was wrecked and Gaddafi was publicly tortured and murdered……………..in a disgraceful and totally illegal war
why am i infused with boyish optimism? beautiful overcast sunday morn, nice colors in the back yard. cat seems ok for the moment although still blind. dont have to worry about toilet overflowing, needs from other people overflowing, although maybe the phone will ring soon enough. z and kid left with a leaking tire on the rental suv and had to change it somewhere near AZ yesterday. kid sounded irritated and tired. well, it was not my idea for him to drive his miniscule piles of belongings and the monster dog 3000 miles on a road trip with my poor needy wife. will having her with him, once they get to champagne, affect his work in discovering the best battery material in the world? dont know. kid’s former sponsor said he was fragile and that it was good for her to go help support him and his dog in transition. i am sure he could go back on drugs if he realized the horrible father that i had been to him in various stages of his childhood. the other kid went on to drinking wine since his wife loves wine. that’s dangerous with 2 small children. i better warn him.
It’s good that you have some respite from the day-to-day cares Otto. It sounds like it has let you appreciate the simple nice things of the day. Fewer demands clears the mind a bit.
I just wanted to say a bit about suicide, as it is brought up again. When I was in eighth grade (many moons ago) we had a career-day at school and I picked psychiatrist, having a deep interest in problems of the mind. A well-dressed middle age man showed up and sat in front of about twelve of us in the classroom to explain what the job of being a mental health professional was like. When he asked for ‘any questions’ I asked if there was a worry about suicide for his patients. I was stunned when he said that six of his patients had committed suicide. Then and there at the age of fourteen I decided I did not want to be a psychologist.
Sylvia, what a good question you asked as an 8th grader that got right to the heart of the matter. That being a mental health professional means having to help patients with their important and possibly critical issues. It does seem like a stressful occupation to take up, even given a desire to help people. Maybe frustrating too as it isn’t necessarily possible to fix things up for the patient.
Phil
> Otto,
> I hear you and feel sorry for you and the sik cat and soon lonely dachshund.
> you seem to be doing all you can.
> hang in there, keep listening to music and keep seeing mr. B.
> and keep writing, M and cats
I’m having one of those moment again … I had one last week whereby I am feeling super aware of everything around me. It’s almost like I am am on an acid trip … yes I took several. I am trying to think what might have precipitated it all, but come up with a blank.
It’s not unpleasant, but it is very unusual. I do reflect quite a bit about about my life and have for some time now, had many memories of childhood and and later in life and they are very vivid. Today they are even more vivid than normal and it’s almost like I am reliving many of them, especially the very early childhood ones. I do actually remember being in the pram being pushed by my mammy, and I did not not like just laying there and wanted to stand and hold the hood and look around. I remember many of my playmates and school mates and surprisingly remember their names.
All I can really think of is that on my last trip to England, some weeks ago I did visit my childhood home and was shocked to see so many changes. I shouldn’t be really as things do change. Most of it is not sad, but it also makes me ponder the future and in particular since Jim and I are are planning on leaving the States and going back to Europe. We’ve settled on The Netherlands (not my favorite hide-away) and are looking at houses to buy in the south of that country near the Belgian border (as Margaret suggested).
I will miss the sun and clear blue skies and I do have many fond memories here and especially of some trips (Grand Canyon, Yosemite and other less impressive places) and many of the retreats; which were very, very good, BUT I am also reflecting on just how long I have left of life. I have no illusions about after-lives and the like, and know that my parents and now my little brother are gone. I am not overtly happy about aging and all the deterioration’s taking place in my body, though the mind still remains relatively clear, even as the arteries (to coin Patrick’s phrase about them being ‘clogged’), though some may refute my state of mind. I remember vividly my 10 years living in Ibiza, where I read “The Primal Scream”; and spent perhaps the most beautiful years of my mid life.
I can cry easily and am able to own my anger, and not make it a ‘blame game’ even though the terrors are somewhat more difficult to let myself just drop into and feel and express. I grunt and groan much like I did as a kid and feel that is part of expressing what is going on with me.
I do feel lucky to have a companion and we can laugh a lot, though there are the awkward and angry moments also. It’s all as the Guru’s (not the one on the blog) always insisted on “living in the moment” and “Be Hear Now” used to preach; though I don’t feel optimistic about the future of mankind.
Back to the first sentence:- being super aware. Maybe reaping more of the rewards of this therapy. Just my reporting in on my current state of affairs.
Jack
Nice post, Jack. thanks. I wish you and Jim all the best in your move.
Erron: Thanks … and don’t get old if you can find away around it. If you do let me know.
Jack
Errona: Sorry I miss-spelled your name … confusing you with Erron.
Only just noticed … sorry about that.
Jack
Hey, it’s me under another login, Jack. Not sure how it happened. Don’t know about tricking old age though, I’ll settle for dying as a feeling human, if possible.
Erron: I’m pleased that got cleared up. I too hope to live the rest of my life feeling and expressing them … then if I get the chance … I’ll come back and let you know if I died feeling-full.
Good chance I won’t be given that chance. Ah well !!!!!!!!
Jack
Ah yes, may we ‘meet on the ledge’ as the song said it so sadly…
Erron: I have my doubts about that one also. BUT who knows. As I always insist the only thing I know for certain is how I feel … even if I have to think about it for a second or two.
Jack
Otto:
For some reason when I play this song it reminds me of you and the things you write here on the blog, so even if you don’t like it I will dedicate it to you!
Actually, that song is too optimistic. ha. just kidding. thanks for thinking of me. but obviously you listen to it more than once. must mean something special to you.
Otto: I was considering starting a business selling pork rinds and I needed a good song to help provide me with the proper setting to mass-produce the product I was going to sell. Do you think this song would pass muster for my intended task?
I know I didn’t allow much time for a response to my question, but I have to say I really feel discouraged that no one came along and answered my question saying, “I believe the song would only aid worker productivity if you name your new business Buffalo Bill, Inc.”
This is why I cling to those little nuggets of deep understanding from one specific post apiece written by Patrick, Daniel, and Margaret throughout the years on the blog. At least it shows me how incredibly essential it is to have someone deeply understand you in order to feel loved, liked, or at the very least appreciated by that person.
Guru, I wish I had something to say here that you would find helpful but I don’t. You’re not serious about pork rind, are you?
I was under the mistaken assumption that “Silence of the Lambs” was required viewing for Primal matriculants. My joke fell flat as a pancake.
There are some similarities between Buffalo Bill’s souvenir collections and pork rind production, are there not? This is why I was asking Otto if the song would be a production booster for my pork rind business.
Too many complicated layers of understanding required to smirk at what I said, I guess. I’ll just shut up and go back to my incomprehensibly abstract duties, then.
jack, i was seeing some beauty and vivid colors the past few days. i love it. for me, i think it is a libra time of year. is that what the infamous jonaboby loonan was, a stinking beautiful Libra? i think so. and i forgot that it was libra-time. now i understand why i have been seeing these vivid colors recently. and now, it is almost over, but at least it will be scorpio, and the answers will flow into my brain for a month, and women will be strikingly sexy, and they will look at me. maybe. ha. just a superstition. maybe too many hits of acid, or metal shoes from god. this time of year, even cat scratch fever is something i could enjoy listening to. nah.
Otto: Thanks for the response; you can be very funny and also very inspiring and I find you quite honest. However “The fault dear ‘Otto’ lies not in our stars ,but in ourselves that we are underlings.” Still keep in dreaming about all those sexy ladies whilst you can. If my experience is anything to go by the sex drive evaporates … thanks be to Godo … it saves a lot of time and energy.
Jack
Jack, your writing was shear poetry! it brings tears to my eyes!
well this is the time of year that they tore me away from my mom. cant feel it. shoving feelings down because of the sick cat. he is doing ok, but he could quickly go the other way. i wish the fuck it would rain a little harder that “1/4 inch????@!@$@E4R2W”. but the short-lived cloudy sky has been nice.
Help can be found in the most unlikely of places.
Daniel: I’m tempted tosay what a lovely family to take on a scruffy magpie.
Some adorable pictures too.
Jack
Guru,
I might be wrong, but I assumed your reply to Otto was a joke, about you wanting to start that business.
I even wondered if you were avoiding to really answer him using the joke, but as I say, I might be wrong and also it is your business of course.
just saying as this is what could stop me from replying in such case. I had not listened to the song so in this case I had nothing to say anyway.
but in general the more I show of myself the more real replies I get is what I keep finding out, not always easy but generally very rewarding.
not a criticism as you have every right to behave the way you do and protect yourself, as you do not hurt anybody in that process.
you have my sympathy, M
Margaret: Thank you for your reply. I will say, “Never mind, don’t worry about it”, at this juncture, OK? I’ve explained everything I could and I can….give it a rest now.
sure Guru, I have seen the silence of the lambs and the sequel, have read the books as well, but I must admit I have to guess when I suppose porkrind is butcher speak, some part of meat I imagine..
curious as to the third encounter of the weird kind, for me tonight, will watch it tomorrow morning and hope already Trump once more makes a clear fool o f himself ha!
after all his demeaning comments it will be nice to watch him go flat on his face,if possible.
not that he will admit that to himself, of course all the others wil be blamed..
he is such an incredible example of someone being completely full of himself, specially the way he keeps repeating something he just came up with, just because he likes the sound of it, or wants to convince the world and himself it was a great thing to say. it feels so controlling, he must be so hard to be around, I hate that attitude so much I am actually fascinated while watching it in its full glory..
all that contempt and all that twisting of the truth, all that vicious phoniness and power tripping…
and the utter respectlessness for women, specially when he sneers about their looks, it is revolting.
and all the people that are sick enough to want to vote on him…
a spectacle, can you imagine all those radicals already loathing America and then watching this? it must be like a treat, so much they can use in their counterpropaganda ..
guru has a good point, it does make good television, ha, for a while, glad the show is almost over..
M
Margaret: I was thinking of a pig’s skin being normally used to make pork rinds and Buffalo Bill doing something similar by skinning his victims. The Goodbye Horses song is considered Buffalo Bill’s song and I wondered if the song would help speed up the process of skinning pigs to make pork rinds.
I am now deeply regretting saying this weird joke aloud in any way because of all the unexpected work I ended up doing explaining it. The pork rinds joke was in poor taste, anyway, both literally and figuratively.
I will now spend a large chunk of time today steeped in embarrassed self-recrimination for uttering my poorly abstract joke aloud. Perhaps then I will find repentance and forgiveness, I don’t know. Maybe Donald Trump can be my guidance counselor on such issues?
Guru: That last line of yours … another joke ?????
Jack
Margaret: My take on Donald Trump is:- not only an embarrassment on the Republican Party, but is a huge drag on the United States of America and It’s “magnificent” democracy.
It’s ALL about money. That “magnificent” invention we humans made to keep us all in check … not real freedom. Me thinks is beginning not to work out.
Jack
Margaret,
The debate tonight is probably Trump’s last chance to turn things around before the election. But I feel there is little chance of that. He is an easily provoked poor debater, with little command of the issues. He never should have gotten this far.
There is so much material to use against him. He will most likely continue to say things which please his core supporters, which don’t win over any additional voters. It will be interesting to see what strategy Hillary takes. Go in for the kill, or play it safe and just let Trump make a fool out of himself.
Phil
haha, sorry, but you all know I like learning about unexpected biological stuff. sorry if some explicit terms need to be used here..
just saw a little item about snails, the ones without a house on their backs, we call them naked snails. they are about 15 centimeter long, we learned, but hey, their penis can be up to one meter long… and well, another habit they have, is that after the deed one snail starts biting in the still present organ and just chews it off completely… no competition there anymore.. I seem to remember also snails are bisexual, literally, hermaphrodite , they both have female and male organs, so they can ‘doubledate’ just the two of them..
hope I did not shock anybody’s feelings with explicit language, but all of this was too striking not to post it..
slimy little beggars..
M
Wow, Lucky snails! I assume they can regenerate.
Wait a minute, Margaret, are you saying a 15 centimeter snail has a penis up to 100 centimeters (1 meter) long? That penis is almost seven times longer than the snail itself, not to mention that it would bring every single adult human male on Earth to a furious shame.
If what you’re saying is true, then it could be implied that snails can have an orgy by skewering a group of 8 snails or more on a single penis much like a shish-ka-bob.
Are you sure the text did not say 1 centimeter or 1 millimeter?
Euthanasia of the mentally is taking place in Europe; Belgium and Netherlands mentioned:
This is questionable and controversial as these aren’t terminally ill cases.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/europes-morality-crisis-euthanizing-the-mentally-ill/2016/10/19/c75faaca-961c-11e6-bc79-af1cd3d2984b_story.html?utm_term=.d99244fbacf5
Phil, that assisted suicide reminds me of Dr. Kavorkian. I always thought he was helping people die because he enjoyed it. Sounds like the Netherland’s policy to let non-terminal depressed or mentally disturbed people die is getting a much needed good look-at, hopefully.
Just saw the debate. Trump needed a glass of chocolate milk with a straw to blow bubbles with so he wouldn’t be bored like at the dinner table while the grown-ups talked.
Sex drive indeed goes away. However, today gorgeous lebanese lab technician knocked on my office door saying she needed a cable of some kind, and my fantasies went hog-wild.
Otto: I don’t think she meant that kind of cable. BUT then who knows. 🙂 🙂 .
Jack
usg, i didn’t get the joke. make some burp or fart joke so i can laugh. actually i wont eat lamb because no one should be eating babies. I did not know what lamb was when i was growing up, my grandmother just served it and did not bother to tell me the horror of meat. oh well, we are men and apparently we have been eating meat for a long time now. now there is so much of it in the u.s., it is killing us off because we eat so much of it.
Otto: No worries on the joke. I see I probably should have never mentioned the pork rinds because I was the only one who should have chuckled at the thought. It created too much confusion saying it aloud.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around the idea that people actually eat steak tartare. I used to eat a lot of red meat when I was younger and my intake is now close to zero. Just fish once in a while. Chicken once in a blue moon. Still eat eggs and dairy.
Watched the ‘debate’ I thought Trump did well enough one of his big problems is he does not criticize Clinton nearly enough for all the horror unleashed in the Middle East all of which she was in the middle of and she promoted every rotten and illegal war there all of them Iraq, Libya, Syria. The crazy amount of killing and suffering and the refugees the whole bit. He hedges too much and should just say Putin and Assad represent order and some hope for the people there the US represents chaos, horror and destruction. And that continues to this very day. She (we) have learned nothing have no ‘sorrow’ or conscience about what we have done. But then again I suspect Trump is also ‘controlled opposition’ he is not the real deal Hillary’s Zionist ties are out in the open and brazenly displayed but he has I am sure hidden ties, ties that bind and ties that lie. If he was to say stuff like I am suggesting he would be LONG GONE and part of the deal to even make it this far is you don’t talk about certain things. Israel was never mentioned I guess the know better than me they know both of them what gets you ‘banned’ or ‘deleted’ me I am a slow learner and I suppose a stubborn one……………..
A lot of the TV stations are only focusing on him saying he would not guarantee to ‘accept’ the election result whatever it was………………..they love this more opportunity for grand standing about our ‘wonderful democracy’ more ‘victory laps’ which I wrote about before but I think was ‘deleted’ hard to keep track anymore what an insult not only to me to any pretense of ‘free speech’ it’s not only the 2nd Amendment is threatened the real prize I am afraid is the 1st with Gretchen in the lead with her magic scissors) and how wonderful our ‘traditions of democracy’ are etc etc. Try telling that to the children and adults too in the Middle East I am sure it does not seem at all ‘wonderful’ to them……………
I went into looking at this last debate very biased against Trump … and came out with my biases left in-tack … as opposed to Patrick who went in with a very open mind and came out feeling Trump did very well.
I very much doubt I will ever become “open minded”
Jack
But although, as you say, “Putin and Assad represent order and some hope for the people there the US represents chaos, horror and destruction”, on October 1 your actions spoke louder than your words: You were in Heathrow taking a flight not east toward Moscow but west to the US, the same US that represents “chaos, horror and destruction”.
I assume you’re in California, or at least have been there for many years, living and making a livings. Is this by any chance the same California that was taken by force from the Mexicans during the Mexican-American war? The same California whose native inhabitants were, as in other places across the US, forcibly removed from their lands?
I’m asking because it seems your moral outrage isn’t backed by actual deeds. Unlike Ireland, living in the US is a conscious choice you’ve made and continue to make every day.
So, what are you, a man or a mouth?
Daniel – that seems a weak argument like what am I supposed to do always cheer for the home team. I know a lot of people do just that but I sort of consider it my job to do a little better than that. I mean if it really seems to me that the US (and israel let’s not forget them!) are really deliberately wrecking these countries am I supposed to shut up about it because I happen to live in the US? That’s a pretty low ‘standard’ imo……….
And Daniel – for a bit of a higher standard you might consider this. People can and do think about these things are you sort of saying as a member of a group one should not be able to think different to the group?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/21/hillary-clintons-strategic-ambition-in-a-nutshell/
I really like this guy he says things a bit better than me. I think his idea that the “West” really the US is on a constant war on ‘indigenous’ tribes is very much to the point. BTW I am Irish so in that sense sort of 1/2 ‘indigenous’ the other 1/2 was done in by the English so I think that is one reason I have sympathy and understanding for this kind of point of view. It seems most people and that includes ‘primallers” are from the ‘developed’ countries and have little enough indigenous in them so they don’t relate much at all. This falls of deaf ears mostly with them but not with me……………
Guru, I am positive about the meter and the snail itself only being 15 cm.
maybe they want to be able to mate with another snail at a distance, without having to slide over all the way???
or maybe the want to preserve 95 centimeter after the one snails bites the thing off afterwards?
as I said, it was kind of a brief item, and I also suppose the thing does extend like these snail parts do, it can’t be dangling around all the time getting tangled up everywhere, haha…
Phil, I am glad I can assure you this is simply not true.
we have good euthanasia laws which request consent of the person itself, in a clear way, on the spot, as a written declaration made before won’t do.
two different doctors need to assess the situation as to having no remedy . the family is consulted .
so I really do not see how somebody with a mental disorder could be legally euthanized.
cases of unbearable suffering either mentally or physically can be taken in account, but always the consent is needed and the motivated opinion of two separate specialists.
it opens up possibilities for beautiful and dignified ways of dying, with support of family and friends, as opposed to long and painful decline and loss of all dignity.
also for children now, as in the case of this little boy suffering from an untreatable and unoperable tumor behind his eye, causing increasing pain and discomfort, and growing fast and eventually going to push the eye completely out of its socket, while it could not be removed either as it was growing together with the tumor.
the child was very clear in wanting to go before it got worse, and its family too, and it felt so very right, very sad but also the most caring and loving thing to do.
so no, this is a misrepresentation of reality, completely, glad to say.
M
ps it could happen someone with a very severe and lonlasting depression, that has not responded to any treatment, while the person repeatedly says he wants to die or will commit suicide, possibly with attempts, in exceptional cases it can occur they get assistance to do it in a way they can say goodbye properly, and go without pain.
but I saw a long documentary about such a case, and it is a very long process before it would come that far, with a whole team of caretakers doing their best to support the person, and to not have to go that way, but listening to the patient through time, it became clear that that was really what he wanted, as he was continuously suffering and nothing at all helped him.
it was a long and very touching documentary, intimate and very real, and it was very very clear everyone cared deeply and genuinely, and years had been innvested in trying to offer caring surroundings full of support, but the patient still wanted to stop living. he was actually very composed about it, just had made up his mind , was intelligent and sensitive but simply had enough of it. he really wanted to die, as simple as that. many people commit suicide, often in messy painful ways, so in this case this felt like the respectful thing to do, it is hard to convey, but that was how it felt upon watching the long documentary.
in an ideal world it would not have to come that far, but if it does, this is better than the other options.
and it is extremely exceptional I can assure you, and never ever against the will of the patient itself which needs to be stable, this patient did not come across at all as irrational or emotionally unstable, he just really had had enough of his life despite all support.
I am all for these laws, they actually make people hang on longer, as from my own experience, I know how reassuring it feels not to have to imagine possible suicide ways if ever, but to know you will have proper support when you reach that point. of course everything gets done then first to try to find other options, but it simply is reassuring to know that one option does exist and then you can put it out of your head as long as you are not completely with youor back against the wall.
i am proud of our euthanasia laws really.
M
Margaret,
One of the questions raised in the article was whether, with certain mentally ill patients, they would be competent to agree to be euthanized. It also mentioned patients with dementia.
I’m in favor of the euthanasia concept but think it has to be carefully regulated as it includes possibilities of abuse.
Phil
I saw the debate last night and thought Hillary Clinton again won. Trump again became unhinged and made a lot of comments only pleasing to his core supporters. Where he said “hombres”, greatly offensive to Hispanics, that didn’t come off well. That will help to activate them to get out to vote. I didn’t think think he said anything to help pick up more support from women either.
Where Trump said he will see about accepting the results of the election; that’s unprecedented and will be a moment long remembered as threatening to our democracy.
Phil – do do seem to take your points very much from the media (the one’s doing the ‘rigging’ per Trump) accepting what you are ‘told’ I did notice they jumped on this the moment the debate was over and then that becomes an endless ‘talking point’ (propaganda) yakking on and on about how ‘unacceptable’ that is how it is such an insult to their democracy on and on more ‘victory laps’. Someone said there was ONLY one answer to that question and maybe that is another thing that annoys Trump why ask a question to which there is only one (right) answer. And why not decide at the time Al Gore decided at the time to contest FL as was his right. In fact he ‘won’ that election but the result was ‘rigged’ It happens and in many more ways than we even know. Do you trust ‘electronic voting’ I don’t the software is even secret it comes under the heading of ‘company property’ There is so much rigging going on truth be known as I keep saying Paris, Brussels, Nice, Orlando etc etc were all fakes. Trump does not seem to know this and gets faked out on ‘muslim terror’ if he REALLY knew he could do great damage but then if he REALLY knew he would not be allowed to be up there so we are stuck with him a poor candidate against a proven war criminal…………….if he ‘really’ knew he would not be allowed heck I am not ‘allowed’ much here on a marginal blog with no great significance but even there it is too much for some…………..
Patrick,
I watched the debate and that was my own reaction, including whatever biases I have.
I am also, however, interested in the media take on it. The media mostly reflects back the people’s reactions. They have to do that to have high ratings and to remain popular.
Phil,
I agree it is necessary to watch out for possible abuse of euthanasia but actually the regulations are so strict now that for example, what most people would like to be able to do, to write down that if ever they become seriously demented, they want to have their life ended, is impossible. it does not help to have a signed paper like that to be certain you will never end up on a protected ward, as it does not count. you still need to be clear enough to be able to confirm at the given moment repeatedly you really do want to die. and it is not asked just on one specific moment, it needs an examination of two doctors and I think in some cases also the consent of the closest relative.
so actually what most people would want to have down on paper as some kind of security does not work.
but usually people build up a good relation with their regular doctor and it is useful to check with him or her how they feel about euthanasia if ever.
it is reassuring to know your doctor is not principally opposed.
and well, it is not a decision that is being made on the spur of the moment, it needs physical or emotional suffering without a possible remedy.
I am pleased about how it works here, my neigbour, an actor back then, got severe ALS and lost most of his capacities in less than two years time.
he gathered his friends and the next day his close family and had a very intense and feeling goodbye of everyone before things became really unbearable.
there was even a documentary made about him as well, which was very moving.
so it happened right next to me and it felt very right.
my mom was sometimes feeling suicidal and made crazy plans to wander off into the woods and at those times it was good to be able to tell her that would not be the best option as we would be worried sick, which she finally understood when I asked her how she would feel if I would do a thing like that.
it was good to be able to talk about a possible other option as it takes away so much of the pressure.
I think just knowing that option exists can prevent a lot of suicides, at least in some cases.
our regulations are good, while of course nothing is ever a 100 percent perfect.
the basic requirement is the personal and repeated request from the person in case.
and then the situation still needs to be assessed.
it is one thing I can be proud of as a Belgian citizen, smiley, but I usually do not think in those terms.
M
Margaret,
It sounds very good the way you describe it.
Phil, Patrick and any others that watched the debate. I too watched it.
Now, since this is what democracy is supposed to be … we’ll see what the voters want.on the 8th of November./
I, personally, am not voting for Patrick in any poll or election.
Jack
the Russians are accusing Belgium on Russia today of bombing a village near Aleppo and making six civilian victims.
they insist while we have radar image prrof with the transponder codes on it that the Belgian planes were not even flying in that area at that time.
makes the Russian ‘news’ not very trustworthy.
one excuse is they do not have the proper transponder codes but that is all the more reason they should be more careful of who they accuse.
specialy as they insist but maybe that is simply propaganda or even a way to get the proper connection of the codes and the planes..
it is discouraging that level of misinformation goes on at that level of power.
and no, Belgians are not into that kind of devious misleading, way too complicated..
now of course the question remains who bombed the village of course.
M
Concerning the debate, I was impressed with the moderator, Chris Wallace, to take control and keep the topics on track. I don’t believe Trump was sincere in his outrage of abortion rights. He just wants to win by going along with the party-line. In 1999 he was pro-choice. He has changed party affiliations five times since the 1980’s. What a wind-bag he is.
well i had another thought about the origins of neurosis in mankind. i didn’t put too much thought into it. probably not an original thought. maybe Art mentioned something in one of his books. man survived the ice ages and/or the theorized gigantic catastrophe that wiped out a lot of life on earth at one point. maybe, my thought goes, man survived because predators might grow logical brains so they don’t have to feel the horror of killing things to stay alive. sure i probably have some stupid old feeling about this. i am just writing this for me, dont reallly care if it is half-baked and i am too tired to flesh it out. i had another related thought but now i cant remember it. as i said, i probably heard someone else say these thoughts, whatever. just something to amuse myself with. the gorgeous lebanese lab tech is probably persian who the heck knows the difference or does it really matter? i gave her a long cable and now she smiles at me more when we pass in the hall. 1/2 second of 1 millionth of an ounce of pleasure in an otherwise stressful boring exhausting day of work. i am just writing for myself. if i come along and read this later, i will think what i have just written to be very boring and stupid. i have gained so much weight in the last 6 months because i eat poorly to soothe myself from working 12 hour days, mostly sitting. MOM! MOOOOM! I watched the exorcist movie after work today. the sounds the little possessed girl made gutteral sounds like primal sounds, like the feelings that i have pushed down inside of me for so long. mountains of misery, compressed like a dark star, inside of me. cat is ok. sad to see him bravely walk around the house and out the back door, mildly bumping into things since he lost his sight. he loves to be outdoors. probably where he caught his asshole fungus.
Otto: You said: “.man survived [a giant catastrophe] because predators might grow logical brains so they don’t have to feel the horror of killing things to stay alive. ”
I have to say I tend to think the opposite is true. There are many predators in the animal kingdom who have no second thoughts of killing lesser animals for food. If anything the human thoughtful mind may have been required to understand and contemplate and perhaps (feel?) the horror of killing. Art had written that murderers’ first line mammalian instincts overwhelm the cognitive third-line. I’m not sure this thesis would cover coldly calculated murders planned well in advance for life insurance money, though. Not even the most advanced bonobo monkeys (much less lowly reptiles) have chipped in on any known life insurance premiums yet.
I don’t want to get into much of a debate about this. It’s probably a much more complicated picture than what I stated above and I can’t spend much time working hard getting to the bottom of it all without any personal gain. I just wanted to say my opinion and I don’t want to detract from the other things you are talking about from your everyday life.
I got to see the highlights of the debate last night. The election generally starts to feel less critical to me as it is becoming more and more apparent that Hillary is going to win, barring a disaster. And the only disasters happening are the ones Trump has been inflicting on himself. The only question is, will she win by a landslide. In the debate Trump seemed somewhat more contained, thanks in part to the moderator, but I see he is now adding conspiracy theorist to his long list of negative character traits. His “bad hombres” quip made me laugh, I suppose because I am getting to know him somewhat through the media and it came across as a typically insensitive Trumpism, that means he has once again shot himself in the foot with people that he needs to reach.
David, I feel the same way, that the election is pretty much decided at this point,
unless there is some startling new development. People have to go out and vote, of course, but I think they will. The democrats may even win a majority in the senate; then Hillary may be able to achieve something.
yesterday night, after 11, I went into the stairway for something and felt a cat stroke my legs. I was surprised one of my cats had been able to get out of the appartment, and when the cat meowed I picked him up to carry him back inside.
there in the brighter light I noticed he was not white with dark patches as my two cats are, but almost entirely dark, and quite chubby. I immediately took him out into the stairway again to avoid a cat war, and felt a bit overwhelmed .
the cat made plaintive sounds, and I picked him up again and carried him up the stairs to the neighbour on the floor above me, and knocked on his door. luckily the son was home, so I smiled and said ‘I think this one might belong to you!’, but no, he did not!
it started to become more distressing, what was I to do at that hour of the night?
I asked the neighbour if he wanted to keep the cat inside as I could not do so with my own two cats there, but he refused.
he told me the cat had wanted to go out into the street earlier on, but I really did not like the idea to put him outside in a street that can get prettty busy in the morning, while the cat might be frightened and lost.
i had no idea how he had been able to get inside either.
I opened a window in the stairway and put him out on one of the small roofs, hoping he knew a way into the gardens or onto other roofs. I did not like doing so but wanted to try it at least.
but when I was back in my a[appartment, and already in bed, feeling tense and listening to the sounds, suddenly I heard a loud sound and my cats burst into the room through the cat door from the terrace, completely freaked out.
I got up, assuming the strange cat had jumped onto the roof of the terrace, and heard him meow loudly.
it freaked me out even more, as I feared he had gotten onto a roof at the same level of my terrrace, but then he would be behind a fence that kkeeps my cats from getting astray, with no way to get off that roof apart from a jump over a deep gap.
so I stuck my head through another window, making sure my cats could not get out, and started calling that cat, hoping he would make the jump and be able to get into that window into my bathroom, to no avail.
all tense I ended up going into the stairway once more, up to the window where I had put hhim out on a roof, and to my relief he came wandering by, mewing pitifully.
I took him back inside, and after some thought , as he kept meowing, I went down the stairs with him, to open the front door, thinking that if he knew his way well he would scurry away. he went out tail up, but then hesitated and turned back inside..
so I took him back into the stairway, and decided the only option was to wait until the morning, and then call the lady that owns a small neigbour grocery shop, as she knows plenty of people here and might know whose cat it could be.
it was not easy to go to sleep with the cat meowing in the stairway, but finally I managed to do so.
was awake at 6.30 and got up, and at 7 I called the lady, who lives across from me and has her shop on the corner. luckily she was up already, and she told me on the phone she had some idea which cat it might be, and she came over right away!
alas, someone during the night had left the cellar door open, and no cat could be found. we hoped the cat had managed to get out into the street again through the cellar window, as she explained it is a female cat, who has an increasing habit of going out into the street and wandering in into other people’s houses. the cat lives just around the corner, so it was a relief to hear at least she knew her way around and would not be all spooked and lost. the lady even said she sometimes just lays on top of car roofs taking a sunbath, the cat I mean..
so I did check the cellar a few times, opening the door and going kitty kitty kitty but no sound and no meows so hopefully Felicia the cat is happily at home with her owner again.
at some points it felt a bit nighmarish as in the beginning I had no idea what to do, and the mewing cat, and she had a heartbreaking meow, did trigger resonating feelings about being lost and scared and alone, and I desperately wanted to do something about it.
so it was a great relief finally that the lady knew which cat it probably was and she knows the owner as well.
felt exhausted but went to my gym class anyway. there in the middle of telling my story to someone, before the class, other people got into the locker rooms, and interrupted my story, and the lady I was talking to got engaged with them. it really hurt, made me feel something was wrong with me, why did she not let me finish my story, was I so bad in communicating, was I so utterly uninteresting, etc., old feelings of not counting.
they wore off during the class, and it occurred to me maybe she thought my story was finished , while it was not really, but I can imagine she might have thought so and theerefor was easily distracted.
felt lonely but at some point during the class someone else was very friendly to me so that helped a little.
so well, nothing earthshaking really, but it was pretty intense and I am very glad the cat story kind of got sorted out.
i think it still resonates as that cat’s situation reminds me emotionally of my own, feeling somehat lost and alone in a world that is hard to cope with in a safe and pleasant way, full of possible threats and discomfort.
depending of nice people for help, with a lot of indifferent people around..
glad I did do my best for the cat.
oh I forgot at some point I also put a robe on and went out in the street to push the doorbells of my nearest neigbours but noone answered. that too had a slight nightmarish touch, almost freezing, windy, dark, noone around, in my robe, luckily just a few steps away from my own front door..
oh well, will probably sleep better tonight, and so will my cats as they were pretty distressed as well..
M
After work today I’ll be gong to a wedding. Our neighbor’s across the street grandson who used to play with our kids. I don’t normally do well at these type events. The attention won’t be on me but I can easily feel it to be. Too many people to have to deal with, I would just as soon skip it.
My wife is excited to go, however. In this way we are quite different type people. So, I’ll see how it goes. Hopefully better than expected.
Phil
What might your marriage be like if your wife was like you Phil?
Margaret: Interesting story, but the most revealing part was the insights you gained from it about your own past.
Phil: I hope you go and see where it all leads. Anticipation is a great tool, but as I remember vividly Vivian’s retort many times, “Take a risk”.
Daniel: The Patrick ‘saga’ is just that. He seems not to be able to resolve very much. He left Ireland and went to live in London, way before he set off to California after reading the Book.
My guess is that he left Ireland to get away from his own childhood, that was apparently not very happy. Then or reading The Book, thought he’d found the solution, BUT hoped that the therapy could be done for and to him. It is my feeling, many felt the same way. Not sure exactly why that was and can only know I was lucky (yes! pure luck) I knew from the ‘get go’ I had to do it for me … no-one was going to do it for OR to me.
All I need to remember was that the feeling were mine … from long ago, AND belonged only to me.
Jack
Phil,
how was it at the wedding?
I do relate to feeling events like that can be hard to deal with, as they are long and often forced socializing and with some kind of obligation so to say to have a good time. I feel always apprehensive about parties, or often, but then they can turn out too to be more pleasant than expected.
not always though..
some ok moments mixed into long ‘sitting out’ of boredom or discomfort..
and often the feeling of not fitting in, and my guess is that can be true for a lot of participants. sometimes it helps to remember that, and to remember most people are relieved someone wants to engage in any kind of conversation, as the most awkward thing can be to just stand around and feel disconnected..
hope it went well for you.
and Larry had a point, I also remember how my very social late husband was a great pathmaker to get to know everyone..
Margaret,
the wedding went OK. A few awkward moments reconnecting with people. Afterwards I had some insights about how I let relationships fade away as I don’t maintain them. It was especially nice to see a lot of young people in their 20s there who we used to see very often when they were young kids. My son away at college would have enjoyed seeing all these people at the wedding.
I think I have a pattern of not maintaining relationships, or acting out having the other person do the work of remembering me. No doubt because that’s what my mother did to me, She completely forgot about me. When we would go to visit her she wouldn’t even speak to me. All so painfull that I remember very little about her.
Phil
Thomas Verzar says:
October 12, 2016 at 5:09 pm
Hi Larry
Just re-read your posting of the 30th of September.
Very deep, very sad and full of despair. That’s the way I read it, anyway.
It is poignant how early deprivation casts such a long shadow across your life in the present.
I can report to you that I suffer from a similar affliction. I’m lying in bed sick, contemplating what to do, work wise, for the rest of my life. I’d like to make more money, but I’m held back starting any kind of business venture, as everything I touched in the past, turned to ruin.
A reflection of my past, to struggle, and then not succeed, after all. But the if I give up the struggle, I die. Talking about being between a rock and a hard place.
Enough about me.
As far as your ex boss is concerned, if she reached out to you, take it a step further. Maybe she knows where you’re at. And maybe she has a heart, after all.
Tom
Reply
• Larry says:
October 13, 2016 at 5:05 pm
In the last hour I composed a reply to your comment Tom, but darn WordPress failed to post it and then lost much of the text. It’s late and I have to make my dinner. I will try to reconjure my reply later.
Today.
Hi Tom. I still want to reply to your Oct 12 comment. First of all, thanks for writing. We haven’t heard from you in a very long time, and it’s nice to know that you are still here on the blog. It’s only 9 days since my attempt at a reply to you on Oct. 13, but it seems like a long time ago.
October 10 was a Thanksgiving long weekend in Canada. Instead of my traditional long distance drive to spend the time with family and friends far away, I broke the routine and drove almost as far to meet a married couple who are friends of mine, in a National Park where we stayed together a couple of nights in a rented cabin in the park. We hiked, saw moose and bear, bird watched and I did photography, and though the weather was cold, rainy and snowy, we enjoyed catching up and being with each other in the natural forest setting. Nevertheless, I felt an aloneness inside that kept eating away at my soul, and on my drive back home, despite having spent time with them I felt very alone. It felt like an aloneness that no one could permanently vanquish.
Later that week I had surgery to remove a kidney stone. I had to ask a friend to give me a ride home, as I wasn’t allowed to drive for 24 hours to give the anaesthetic time to completely wear off. Even though he was very generous and willing to help me, I felt uncomfortably vulnerable to have to ask him, and very alone that there was no one in my life to automatically look out for me and I had to ask him.
Finally last weekend I had a good cry about being alone and being so very alone as a child and there being no one there to see me and tend to my need. As awful as it is to face that truth, it also gives me strength to face and accept it…little by little. In doing so, I realize more and more that I can’t keep waiting for things to get straightened out for me. I have to wake up and find the courage to make my life fuller, less lonely.
Today I spent 5 hours, the first of 30 hours eventually, of training along with 11 others to be a hospice volunteer. It’s been an enriching but sobering day with them. The people who we will be helping…the people who are dying from a terminal illness, are my age or younger. It makes me pause and reflect that it could easily be me in their place whose health is failing and whose life is ending. In time I will be assigned a client and I will find out whether I can cope with this kind of volunteer helping. At the moment I have some doubts that I have what it takes, but if I can do it, it will be one of the activities that will be meaningful to me in retirement. The other activity I’m leaning toward to occupy some of my time in retirement is going on the Nature Society outings and hopefully volunteering some of my time with them.
I intend to retire next Spring. It’s a big change in my life. It’s like moving to a new city and finding a new job and new friends and community. I wonder whether I can do it and make a meaningful life. I hope I’ll have the health, energy and courage to reach out for the support that I’ll need. I feel afraid and alone with the responsibility for my life. Lots of feelings and old feelings are brought up. I’m so fortunate to have this therapy to nibble away at those feelings and work through them, that would otherwise overwhelm and paralyze me in this big change in life I’m going through.
I get it how you are between a rock and a hard place. I grasp how your life experience causes you to feel that way. My wish for you is that you are able to feel and resolve those feelings, little by little, and move your life in a direction towards what you want.
After my time today with the other volunteers in hospice training, and after writing to Tom, I needed to cry. The feeling that took over me was so deep feeling good-bye to my wife, deep letting go and both of us sad but accepting the end of our time together. It was a deep painfully sad feeling of the end, yet somehow beautiful, like this end was a deep and important part of our life together, a deep and cherished part the way all of life is to be cherished. It was the first time in my grieving that even though sad and painful, there was beauty, meaning and privilege in being able to spend our life together including the end of hers and the end of our time together, that even the end was precious part of life and a privilege for us to share together. It feels good to be more able to accept the end and the preciousness of even the end, and not run from it and all of the pain and sadness that the end brought me, and not run from life any more because it hurt me so much. Life feels even more precious because I’m more able to accept that it does end, but even the ending of it is sacred.
I wonder whether I am perhaps much closer to and end of my grieving, after many years closer to acceptance and closer to embracing life more fully, with it’s potential for joy and deep sorrow.
Larry: On reading your post yesterday I was deeply moved; It was first, so well written, but more importantly, so simply and deeply expressed. I did not, at first, thought it required anything from me to be said … but it kept going through my head what you had written. I sat with it for sometime, but it kept sort of haunting me. This post of yours required some support, but I was at a loss as to what to say. I still am; but am now making an attempt to do so.
After missing out in your early life, you were eventually able to find someone and make that bond that should have been there from the beginning; only for even that to be taken from you. You deserve more, but I just know that there will never be a replacement of Noreen. However, there are other things that you could still get, especially in view of your pending retirement. I sure hope it happens for you. You sure are a very inspiring and integral member of this blog.
I wish I knew what to suggest for you, but I come up with a blank. forgive me. I have two buddies that equally got practically noting from their early life; and their pain, sinks into the very depth of my being.. What are we human creature, that are so incapable of taking care and giving simple unconditional love to our young? It saddens me greatly all the times that I think of it; especially since it is still ongoing at the very moment that I write this.
I attempt to make my ‘bid’, but knowing that it is not good enough, but I will forever (compulsively) go on trying … knowing that ‘trying’ is not going to be enough.
Meantime Larry, I wish for you the very best … and hope this response of mine in no way adds to your pain.
Jack
What a champion ‘feeler’ in between the nastiness……………
I’m touched by your reply Jack. What you wrote is meaningful to me. Thank you.
Crying again at home, after a few weeks lull. the tears will never go away. the pain of losing my mom that young is in every cell of my body. hearing some country music, i realize i probably heard those country songs at my mean uncle’s house when i was thrown into his and my cold aunt’s care when i was torn from my mom at 10 months. hearing the old radio from my lonely bassinette in the other room. lonely. of course i was addicted cant think of good word, embued? to music, from my mom, who i could hear playing piano, from the later days of being in the womb, until our final days together. just drenched with music, and then irony, hearing it while the adults were in the other room, totally oblivious to my pain. mom. moooom! thanks vivian for letting me know it was ok to still not be done with the crying. she told me years ago.
It’s touching Otto, why music is so important to you. Perhaps the dog will eventually realize that you come out of it OK, and will feel OK with your crying.
maybe aunt and uncle had me in the room while they were listening and dancing, twirling. not sure. i do have this thing about dancing. maybe they still couldnt understand my pain. i looked at the dancing in wonderment maybe, not sure that i ever saw that before.
just a snippet of a feeling, but a pretty deep short cry into my tempurpedic pillow. hopefully that will keep the neighbors from hearing.
having the insights as i go. luckily they liked music. that’s the only thing that kept me alive at that point, that mournful steel guitar which i dont think i had ever heard before.
dog dont know what to make of me crying.
still, even tho alive, i missed out on so much. these guys, i didnt even know they existed in 69. now it is millions of years later, and i feel like i still have nothing today. or at least, i wish i could feel that. Delaney & Bonnie & Friends: Copenhagen December 10, 1969
it feels so good to read what you guys share about your personal life and feelings.
it reminds me of what connects us.
what you said Larry about sharing a loved one’s end of life and how that contains beauty and a feeling of privilege as well, was very touching and inspiring.
it is true deep love goes hand in hand with the potential of deep sadness..
for a long time I have not felt like crying but now I feel tears are nearby.
had a dream about being in a car, driving, and my mom was in the car as well.
there was a narrowing of the highway due to roadworks and I had to slow down as suddenly also there were no roadlights and there were no white markings on the narrow driveway.
I could hardly see anything, which was scary, asked my mom to give me my glasses and that helped a little bit.
but still I had to reduce our considerable speed and on top of that started noticing something was wrong with the steering.
the car kept going to the left side , while I write this i suddenly remember an earlier part of the dream, in which my mom was driving but on the wrong side of the road, and I had to struggle to get hold of the steering wheel myself and take over so we would have a chance of surviving…
so anyway, I noticed the steering wheel had partially come off, mom helped me to somewhat fix it again, but still it did not do a good job and I felt we went more and more towards the side of the road, where a ditch threatened to make us turn over ..
I was scared, but then managed to brake more and we did run slightly off the road but at a reduced speed.
the car tilted over to a precarious position in which it could go either way, roof down or back on its wheels, but probably if unbalanced it would crush roof down into the ditch and squash us if we weren’t very careful.
I started throwing out some of our belongings as the weather was very cold, and we would need them out there, a sweater landed on the wet grass, but I thought well, better a wet sweater than no sweater, I will have to go with not perfect!
we did manage somehow to get out of the car if I remeber it well, but I also remember waking up gasping with fear still…
in a way it feels good to get some feelings up again, as lately things were quiet on the front, maybe because there was so much other stuff to deal with..
already am in the second month once more without having any codeine painkiller laying around in the house at all.
I do sleep well, but well, life has some ups and regular downs and does remain a struggle of course…
i feel reluctant to do so, but I guess I still need to address some more feelings related to the loss of my former cat, and of course to my own early early childhood..
Otto, my cat used to come to me to check when I cried, but when I reassured her with some stroking and words, she felt at ease and wandered off for her nap knowing I was ok..
so your dog might need just that, he wants to comfort and help you, and dogs are probably more into that than cats..
M
Margaret it sounds like a more real life albeit scary dream of actively dealing with a frightening life situation, than the horrifying dreams you’ve related about being helplessly pursued by monsters.
that cry seemed to be really needed.
three different long deep cries really. the first was merely distress, including tiny baby wails .
the second one was ‘don’t be scared don’t be scared don’t be scared..’ with tears literally bursting out at high speed, and the last cry was deep and painful mourning about the finality of the goodbye itself, it still is painful to write these words..
you are so right Larry, love and the joy of it and the deep sorrow are parts of the same..
I am enjoying very much how i love my two male cats these days, and the affection I get from them in return.
it always feels like a privilege.
also with my mom things go fairly well, which gives us all more breathing space and opens room for tenderness and simple caring.
she is very sweet these days in asking a lot how we are doing and offering her help if we would need it..
still Larry, i do relate to the feeling of aloneness.
Barry said at the last retreat at some point, that every time I manage to adjust to my loneliness, I discover I can still feel more alone, or be more alone, depending how you look at it…
at the same time as you say it is a process of adjusting and coping and making things better if possible..
thanks for writing what you wrote, it helped me to get into this feeling once more..
had to turn the radio on and use two pillows but still my neighbours might have heard something, but that is ok, crying is a part of life that deserves its place in it…
M
Below is something Dr Kruse wrote about the election. Jack before you freak out this is not ME writing it is HIM and I do not have to agree and worship everything he writes (cf you and Dr Janov lol) but I find it a bit interesting. It seems to me SOMETHING must explain how all these ‘progressives’ including it seems everyone on here have very little problem with HRC and think Trump is some kind of of anti Christ. Like where does this ‘thinking’ come from? Dr Kruse seems to think a lot of it can be explained by the ‘environment’ progressives typically inhabit surrounded by computers wifi cell phones etc maybe as opposed to a farmer for example if any ‘farmers’ even still exist well maybe like the farmer of 50 years ago and earlier. I don’t think it explains everything but something MUST be operating in tuning people’s minds all in the same direction. There is the ‘media’ of course but that’s also part of the same loop. Now Jack before you freak out (again) I know you know that Dr Janov explained it all for all time forever and ever Amen and praise be to him but well some of us get a bit bored with the sheer repetition of that message. You don’t now go somewhere and say your prayers. Hopefully Gretchen will find this to be kosher but the irony is I don’t believe in ‘kosher’…………
“The “modern progressive” not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side in this election, but they appear to have a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them because they controls the volume of the media. The “progressive mindset” is a creation of our modern environment in my opinion. It is built by blue light and nnEMF. (non native electro magnetics) believe this environment is clearly on trial in this election. For me, I am going to carefully use my bio-hacking map I used when I relocated to map the election results. I am going to write about this in my new book because it makes the greatest case of how the Quantum Zero effect really operates. I am going to watch state by state and local returns of who votes for the person committed to hurting humans by supporting Monsanto, Big Pharma, and Big food and go from there. HRC supports all of them and it is why I am 100% against her. I support health and do not look to destroy the public good. Her lying, for me, is just the whip cream and the cherry on that “shit sundae” her campaign gives us. Bernie was different. He is a born outsider much like Stein, Johnson and Trump.
Bernie’s radical rapid unconditional support for her tells me he is not what I thought he was. The public is being made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality because they are being unknowingly radiated by light frequencies on media and on social media designed to dumb them down in their own houses using technology. I have a deep sense “blue states” literally mean what they do because of the blue light in these states affect their inhabitants to a greater degree. And because it is this way, the people in these regions never fully are able to grasp the enormity of what was demanded of them to fight this hidden domination of their frontal lobes, and they remain largely uninterested in real policy decisions because of their spectral addiction and their epigenetic modifications. They are not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening because their frontal lobes abilities have been blunted without their knowledge. This intellectual terrorism is alive and well in the USA and it is masquerading with the label “progressive”. The narrative today is as if the world we had once was a mirage and should cease to exist. Our city’s monuments go unseen, its past quieted, and its culture slowly fading in the dismal sea.The crucial point in living should be: are we living our ‘own’ life or simply a life for ‘other’ people views? Are we playing a role on behalf of some social groups and masquerading for fear of being excluded? “
Patrick wrote:
“The crucial point in living should be: are we living our ‘own’ life or simply a life for ‘other’ people views?”
This is such a good question which can be approached from so many angles it would take us years of discussion to reach deeply satisfying conclusions.
~and~
“I have a deep sense “blue states” literally mean what they do because of the blue light in these states affect their inhabitants to a greater degree.”
There’s no question that urban populations tend to vote Democratic (blue states) while the rural folk swing Republican (red states). Yes, there are more blue lights in cities than in the countryside, but I don’t think it’s the cause of Democratic politics.
Do depressed people only “feel blue” in the cities, then?
Ironically, blue wavelengths of light tend to be more stimulating (less depressive, more anxious) while red wavelengths tend to be more relaxing (more depressive, less anxious).
I still use Larry’s old Flux program which follows this principle.
As for Larry: There is no dignity or sacredness in death itself, only the dignity or sacredness we want to apply to it. Someone’s death can be rendered totally meaningless or tens of trillions of words of newsprint can be applied to it.
Patrick,
You must be aware that in the US we are stuck with a two party system. One of which is more “progressive” than the other, but not so much with foreign policy, which is all you seem to care about. It should be clear that we won’t get a pacifist president or much more of a change in policy regarding Israel, the majority of the people wouldn’t support that, in my view. If Bernie Sanders would have run as the Green party candidate he would have gotten little notice. He realizes that the only change currently possible has to come within the two party system. He supports Hillary Clinton so that we don’t get Trump; that should be clear.
Too bad we didn’t get Bernie Sanders as the democratic nominee; as that would have been a good change. A golden opportunity lost as he also could have easily beaten Trump. This opportunity won’t come again anytime soon, I think.
He wouldn’t have changed foreign policy much. If he chose to follow a much more pacifist policy that would have stained the democrats for many years to come. People are scared and we are addicted to being a strong aggressive military power. I don’t see that changing anytime soon. We have had a bit more peace since World War 2 so there has been some benefits with this. I wouldn’t like to have a world war 3.
Phil
Phil – well yes a lot of what you say is true. And it seems just as Hillary is inclined to start a war with Russia Trump seems to fancy having a crack at iran. Always attacking somebody and ruining somebody’s life. As befits the “Presidents for Israel” I predicted a year ago so it has come about as always. Pick your poison but poison it is.
Patrick, hahaha, what a load of crazy crap!
and if so, why would they not ‘blue’ the states that aren’t all blue yet? 99 percent of everyone is in front of their television sets so much of the time, so everyone should be on the same ‘wavelength really.
there are so much logic flaws I could mention but hey, a waste of time.
M
Larry, you are right, it feels like that dream did point out that despite the dangers and hardships so far I did manage to make it, also keeping my mom safe and keeping myself safe from being killed by her incapacity to drive well…
had a busy day today, and did also make an appointment for a meal with the guy from Cabo Verde.
finished the summary of my philosophy course at last, so am rehearsing the stuff now, which feels better!
exam in one month from now.
our southern part of Belgium, the French speaking part, is blocking the trade agreement from Europe with canada still. but they did point out some important items really, the multimationals should not get too much power if we can avoid it.
they should not be able to trespass our environment or food regulations and should certainly not be able to charge large indemnations like they did to Canada about the oil.
don’t know all the details but it is not such a bad thing our little part of the country did attract attention to it.
hopefully they do find some way to compromise in a constructive way.
M
Guru,
as far as I interpreted what Larry said, it was not about the dignity of death as in the concept of dying, but the depth of the experience to share these moments with someone you love, with all its sadness and its reality, its love and its intimacy and therefor also its beauty, as it is a part of life that we all need to accept.
of course I see where what you say might refer to, a sudden violent death misses all of that, both for the person itself and for those who love that person.
that is very traumatizing and sad, I have gone through it but not as a young and vulnerable child, which must be somehow like the end of the world I imagine.
when I was little i used to tell my mom I wished that we would die together as I could not stand the thought of me or her going first.
those thoughts were probably on my mind as she was ill a lot of the time..
and she also spoke about how s
we should take care of each other if it would happen…
so even while it did not occur, the idea scared me big time.
and still does to some degree I guess…
M
omg! First of all Trump was no outsider but more importantly if you are looking for reasons why people might see things in a similar way when it comes to certain issues you might want to dig a bit deeper than a blue light. Common sense and truth might be a good starting point. Do most people feel the earth is round and few believe it is flat because their minds are being controlled? It’s amazing the lengths one can go to to justify a belief system. It’s not because you might be wrong it’s because everyone else is under mind control. You are not deluded you are just the one free thinker that exists! So unjustifiably arrogant. Odd that you go on and on about Jack being a Janov follower while endlessly quoting this handful of lunatics. If anyone needs to think for himself I have to say it is you. You must have people you trust in your life that have expressed concern. Maybe it’s time to listen. G.
OMG what’s up with you? Does mentioned ‘kosher’ thoughts or not get you going? Maybe my thoughts are ‘unkosher’ is that why you delete them half the time? I said last Sunday that there was a very strong Jewish presence in 9/11 and you deleted THAT nothing about a holohoax there at all. Does your ‘remit’ expand in the meantime?. Your ‘logic’ is shallow and unfair plus I am only quoting Dr Kruse and yes I think there is something to what he says. You simplify what he says for the usual inauthentic reasons but can you honestly say all these devices we use are not affecting our thinking. I can’t and I think that is just being honest. You might try that one time, can you tell us again how many suicides there were at the PI? Last time you said 3 including ‘attempts’ has that changed at all in the meantime. You don’t fool me for a second with all your ‘authority’ crap…………………you have none………….
Gretchen – I could probably pick a better way to express myself but I want you to know it really pisses me off and hurts me the way you just ‘decide’ what is kosher or not. It’s really not up to you not in the bigger scheme of things at least if we get bigger than “English shopkeeper” syndrome. You have no right to pick and choose and just shut me up like that. Today at least your reply better I suppose though I am not really impressed. you sort of totally miss any point unlike say Guru for example. I don’t want to be shoving the 3 suicides including attempts in your face all the time but well if you start talking all fine and high and mighty with me I can bring you down down in the real sense of truth. You DID say that and more than once is that STILL your final answer? We are in a bigger reality here that some rabbis who have it seems all the power to shut people up. You need to do better imo……………..we are not in some ‘agreement club’ here though it seems many want to have that………….
Well I skipped over your Oct 23 posting Patrick because I have no time for a lengthy quote of some third party’s opinion on something or other. I get plenty of opinions in print, radio, television, and social media. What draws me to this blog is to hear about your life and how you feel about it. It was only after others’ strong reactions to you posting that I was curious to read it to discover what they were reacting to.
Holy Smoke. Anyone can see the guy is a nut job. Where is your brain, Man!
Patrick, I guess your answer is no, there is no one you trust who has expressed concern. In your opinion I want an ” agreement club”? Really? It’s not me that is whining about free speech and then name calling , threatening and bullying any time someone responds negatively to something you have posted. It seems to me the only free speech you care about is yours. Also the use of the word kosher multiple times. That behavior just doesn’t become you. It makes you look very small actually. As for your bringing up suicides… I know exactly why you do that. It is completely transparent. I just wonder why you would think I care about your opinion on that matter. Initially I was happy to talk openly to you but it goes nowhere . Why? Because you have an agenda and truth means nothing to you. If I was so concerned about your views on that issue I could have long ago deleted anything negative you had to say about the institute. It does not matter to me. You can and will think what you want and you have not demonstrated yourself to be a person open to an actual conversation. As for having your anti Semitic posts deleted… you continue to claim you have no idea what you said that was wrong. Maybe not because much of the time you seem to be simply parroting the words of some of these nuts you so admire. But trust me if you want to take the time you can look in your sent file and see very clearly why you were deleted. Let me make something clear to you. You are free to focus on me if you like but for the record I have received endless email and calls by people in and out of the Institute asking for an end to your disgusting comments. I received almost as many in regard to the threatening remarks you made toward me recently. Again in this post you said ” I can bring you down, down in the real sense of truth”. You can bring me down !! Really!! Are you kidding me!! I don’t know who you think you are talking to but threaten me again, call me a bitch or any other name again and it will be your last time on this blog. You want me to be afraid of you ? Really? What’s wrong with you? Who does that? Again, what is wrong with you? What would make you think you could speak to me like that and I would ever want to talk to you again? You have made endless negative comments about me , Art, Barry and the Institute. No one stopped you. If I was afraid of anything you had to say it would have been clear a long time ago. Say whatever, write whatever, feel free, but I will not be threatened by anyone ever! I will also not stand by silently while you do that to anyone else here either. I will never completely understand why someone who claims to have been bullied would spend so much time threatening, bullying and saying horrible things about other people. It’s perplexing but possibly your fear and jealousy is far bigger than your memory. Gretchen
Gretchen – as Trump said to Hillary ‘these are all words just words’ when I talk about ‘bringing you down’ it’s not a ‘threat’ it’s saying the truth has a power of it’s own. YOU are the one who said more than once there were only 3 including ‘actual’; suicides and ‘attempted’ ones which even leaves open if there were ANY ‘actual’ ones. I contrast this with my own common experience where in the ’80’s there was a slew of them for a while one every other week it seemed. Many of them I knew personally. You challenged me on that so I gave you the NAMES, I can repost if you want
So later when we get into my readings and thoughts about the ‘holocaust’ and I encounter the same stone wall of deception etc well I kind of start to connect things up a bit. Now of course you can deny and obfuscate all you like because well we are just talking about ‘history’ in the abstract so to speak. Anyone can say anything and you do so I revert back to what I KNOW what I lived through here how all the fine words of Janov crashed so badly on the rocks of reality. All the smoke and mirrors the endless self justifications the total disregard for ‘truth’. Just say and do what serves the ‘business’ until it just becomes a ‘small business’ And the English shopkeepers see nothing wrong at all with that. That’s reality they will tell you, get over it it’s just a ‘small business’
Well excuse me I thought we were dealing with something bigger here well maybe my mistake maybe we are not. Maybe it IS all just ‘business’ and we have ‘collateral damage’ Hey no so bad the people in the Middle East have the real collateral damage and we don’t care about them either just call them ‘terrorists’ and be done with them. Anyway we all have our take but in the present day you do ‘censor’ and ‘delete’ me whenever and wherever you like. I consider that an insult to the truth and to me personally. Anything I write is always what I am honestly thinking at that moment and to have some ‘censor’ well it sits pretty wrong with me. You keep mentioning ‘all these people’ who seem to be pissing in your ear constantly about why do you put up with me. Who are these people? Names? Just trying to get a bit of reality here and get away from whispering campaigns and the kind of ADL atmosphere which you suggest there at least to me.
I can imagine I can be a pain in the ass but to me Gretchen you have brought a lot of this on yourself once you took such a hard core attitude to Dr Kollerstrom for example. Whom I have met now and whose truth and integrity shines through everything he thinks and does but to you he was/is a ‘moron’ and an ‘imbecile’ There we have/had a big difference of opinion but again to come back to the fancy words and ‘claims’ of Janov and the PI I thought that was ‘all good’ I am finding out that is more ‘just words’
Gretchen, surely this continuing struggle with Patrick has a use-by date? No one can help him, no one will. But you can help yourself, and everyone will understand when you finally do. You deserve better…
Actually, reflecting on this, it was mean to say it. I don’t know if anyone can help Patrick (I hope they can) and as a therapist and someone who actually knows him, you know what you’re doing.
Also realizing it’s my own feeling: ‘No one can help him, no one will’.
What a shit. Glad I’ve got group tonight.
Patrick, I wish you well, in all ways. I wish us both well…
‘Jackbooting down wide avenues of Logic
tripping on the housecat of Feeling…’
this seems indeed like turning around in painful circles, or rather spiraling down towards more and more rudeness and provocation from Patricks side.
it strikes me how what used to be a strong inclination to choose the outsider position , has turned into sheer agression and hostility in general.
Patrick always clearly had a lot of anger and distrust and liked to look for confrontation, but it was not as compulsive earlier on.
but still I remember once my roommates and some friends prepared me a surprise goodbye dinner at our place, and Patrick was one of the roommates.
they went through the trouble of specially for him, with his paleo diet back then , to prepare separate vegetables etc., without carbohydrates mixed into them.
still when it was dinner time, although you did join the company, Patrick, you did not eat with us and sat at a chair not really at the table, a bit separate.
I am not condemning you here at all, just observing and trying to understand what is going on with you.
but I am afraid that as long as you keep sticking to your anger as a defense and keep considering all kinds of openness and vulnerability as ‘weakness’, without seeing the point of exploring what lays underneath it all, you might keep sliding downhill, and I do feel sorry about that for your sake.
on the other hand even you realize you behave in an obnoxious way and can be or usually are lately, a pain in the ass.
all your theories are but a fancy transparent varnish, you do not fool n
anyone even though you might regard them as sincere concerns.
even while some of them might contain stuff worth exploring, that is not your real agenda, your agenda is all focused on your emotional recreation, dressed up in different colours.
you push away what means something to you, as you had to do as a little boy when you left home, and still do, repeating again and again that cycle with seemingly increasing desperation, which is hard to witness.
I doubt you will ever (be able to ) do so, but what you should do, I think, is surrender, if that makes any sense.
dare to be vulnerable, dare do let someone in, dare to accept advice and help.
not from other people who are also on a warpath against anything at hand, against anything taht represents what you might refer to as conventional mainstream but what mostly reflects healthy common sense and the attempt for balanced views from honest people.
guess I am not reaching you, but well, I am just freewheeling with my thoughts and feelings on the matter.
you regard as everyone would be either stupid or against you, out to hurt you, and that is not a good starting point for anything at all.
where does that frenzy to prove all your points come from, isn’t it true the moment someone would agree you would find something to object anyway?
it is not you people are fed up with, it is your behaviour and attitude, your habit of insulting anyone who does not agree with you, and your immediate reflex of trying to hurt them.
I have gotten to know you as a nice guy once, but now you are turning into someone who behaves in a way noone in his or her right mind would want to put up with, and that is a true shame.
wish you would take a U-turn, but well, doubt you ever will, no idea what keeps you from doing so, fear probably, another shame as once you would do so the road would start leading somewhere.
sincerely, M
Likewise, I read Patrick’s post from yesterday and my only reaction at the time was to laugh at it. This guy just goes from one bonkers theory to the next. I believe what made me laugh was the grandiosity in the comment. That he really thinks he is above all the rest of us small thinkers and that he tries so HARD to make us all “get it”. I’m going to assume that his book, should it ever see the light of day, is going to be found the humour section. Since then the blog took a more sinister turn, with Patrick’s not so veiled threat. I notice how he immediately backed down when confronted about this.
I checked back a few years in the blog just to sample what the general feel was like on a random day. I was surprised to find that the general feeling between Patrick and the rest of the blog was, on this particular random day at least, very good natured and mutually supportive. I’m not going to read every post between then and now to find out, but it did make me wonder what has happened in the interim for there to be such a dramatic reversal.
David – you might pay attention a bit more………………I specifically ‘warned’ Jack that this was an excerpt from Dr Kruse’s blog NOT me writing all that about ‘blue light’ and blue states to avoid him piling on me and now you do instead……………oh well can’t make people pay attention lol. It’s is interesting though that this little fanciful notion of his which really I don’t go along with except only to a point riles people up so much. I don’t know really why it should except I suppose he is implying in for example this whole election nonsense that there is something odd about the whole kind of blind unanimity backed up by media in the see no evil hear no evil attitude to HRC. I mean I have found it weird and not only here in Ireland and Europe too. Now I can see how Trump is not such an attractive person esp after all the distorted bad mouthing he gets from the media but scratch the surface a bit and you will see the same attitudes towards for example Putin. The same weak minded swallowing of media ‘stories’ about Putin and it’s at that point I think wow this is a bit dangerous. There IS a lot of brainwashing going on here and also from my point of view at least it is a bit shocking to see ‘primallers’ no different to the rest. The same ‘weak minded’ repetition of what they have been ‘told’ read or heard on TV. So that was my only point and honestly I am a bit amazed by the reaction. Guru was the only one to actually read and consider and make an interesting comment for most of the rest it’s like they see “Red” including Gretchen. Now I have an ‘issue’ with Gretchen as every one knows I do not accept her censoring of me is legitimate. I don’t and I will keep saying it until she bans me totally or whatever. Also she seems to take complete leave of any ‘therapeutic’ garb and just bangs away at me. Fair enough I suppose but well I can bang back also. Maybe this explains it a bit
“It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled” — Mark Twain
It seems to really annoy people to think they might be being fooled which I suppose is understandable. Mark Twain was a very perceptive guy most everything he says has more than a grain of truth in it imo. Now you can all get back from ‘demonizing’ me keep to Trump and Putin and leave me alone can y’all.
You’re right actually. Based on previous experience, I’ve tended to scan your posts more than read them properly and I should be more careful if I’m going to comment. Having said, that buying into a bonkers theory is not that much better than coming up with the theory yourself. And you must be sufficiently in agreement to want to quote this crap at length.
Patrick
Based on this I couldn’t give any consideration to Dr. Kruse and his theories.
You seem to have little understanding of politics. Try talking to people and you’ll find out why they prefer one candidate over another, and that might shine some light on the situation.
I know I could be more interactive, more responsive to people on this blog, but my energy levels don’t always allow it. I’ve had a pretty bad couple of weeks energy wise. Today, after my Qigong exercises, I was still feeling rotten, and in my head I started saying “Dear God, I really believe something really nasty and horrible happened to me when I was a child and it’s ruining my life and I need you to help me”. I guess you could call it a prayer. I was soon crying very deeply, crying out “please don’t daddy” about the old abuse. I had my hand on my copy of Friendship with God, which helped to deepen the feeling, and I gradually realised that I had really wanted a friendship with my father. I had grown up on a large dairy farm and I literally did not know until today that I had really loved my father’s farm, it was a really fun and adventurous place for me to explore as a kid. I could not allow myself to show or even have those feelings at the time. As well as how he ( I believe) sexually abused me, he had no idea how to involve me in his work in a fun or meaningful way. The times I remember when he asked me to help out on the farm he would often get impatient and angry and then yell at me, calling me useless. Another reason for me to withdraw from him. I’ve had a few feelings like this going back to my father recently. After a couple of months of rest or respite from feelings, it looks like my process is ramping up again. I’m hoping it leads to some improvements in my health
David,
That’s great news. I hope you get some relief from those health issues.
Thanks Phil! Yes I did get some relief.
David: It boggles my mind that anyone would want to sexually abuse a child … of either sex … and especially one’s own child. The conflict:- wanting and needing your daddy to love you and knowing you ‘deep down’ loved him.
Hope you get through this David.
Jack
Thanks Jack! Yes, it has taken me a very long time just to get to this pain, so I’m sure that, though there are times of speeding up, it will take a long time to work through…
David: No doubt it’ll take take time to resolve … but that’s not the problem as I see it; you’ve made the breakthrough.
That’s so great.
Jack
Well put Jack. David, during a later part of my childhood, I grew up on a farm too, and yeah, it was a fun place to play because thankfully I had siblings to keep me company. Reading your post touched me, because it reminded me how much I wanted connection with my Dad but it never happened. When I was old enough that he started to get me helping him on the farm, I was happy that it might bring us closer. But I don’t remember praise or him being pleased with my help, so much as I mostly remember him getting cranky and dissatisfied with my effort and me getting more and more afraid to displease him, and crying on occasion with him yelling at me, until when I was older I withdrew from him and remained tense and afraid around him, until after starting therapy and then trying to rebuild some kind of relationship. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if he had also sexually abused me. It would be incomprehensible.
I feel I need to cry about this, about needing him and yet growing to be afraid of and avoiding him.
Larry, it sounds like you have a similar story to me in some ways. You mention trying to rebuild some kind of relationship with your father after therapy. Were you in any way successful with that? I was never successful. I had always felt like I couldn’t stand to be in the same room as my father and I never knew why that was as he didn’t beat me and there was nothing really concrete I could point to. Now I know better why it was so bad, but I never saw any improvement between us. Just trying to talk to him felt impossible. I felt he just presented a mask, a facade I couldn’t get beyond. Except for one time. I had long suspected my father of sexually abusing me, but I thought he had molested me, it didn’t cross my mind at all that it might have been rape. Years ago I was with my parents in their kitchen and there came on the radio a commentary about the allegations around Michael Jackson’s possible abuse of children. I can’t remember if I walked over to the radio and turned it up, but I remember sitting opposite my father, staring silently and intently at him with this commentary going on. I wanted him to know that I knew something and I was looking for a reaction. It was then that his mask slipped. He tried to avoid looking at me but when he did I saw fear and shame and it was as if I was seeing much more of who he really was. So I got my reaction, but I wasn’t prepared for my reaction to his reaction. I started to feel intense fear and grief coming up and I left the house without saying anything. I remember crying in an outhouse and the feeling was “You destroyed me.”
David, the relationship that I established was pretty much one sided. It was me becoming aware of how afraid and uncomfortable I was with being near him or interacting with him, and opening up to awareness of my need for normal relations with my father, crying and feeling the hurt of the need never being met, and eventually seeing and understanding the reasons why my father was emotionally crippled, and letting go of ever expecting to get anything from him emotionally. Only in the healing of some of the hurt of my unmet need and accepting him as he was, was I able to be around him and start to have some sort of relationship…but it was not that he changed or reached out to me.
But gosh, there is still a lot of need of my Daddy and the hurt of it not being met…deeper…further back in my memory This afternoon, feeling very alone and afraid, I sank into crying for Mom and Dad, then for Mommy and Daddy, searching for some memory of a sign of love from them that could anchor me now. But there is only an empty void between me and them. However they might have felt that they loved and cared for me as best they could, it was nowhere anything near what I needed. While crying and letting the feeling of desperation envelope me more and more, I cried out “I want to go home.”, meaning I want to be back home with my aunt and uncle and cousins. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life alone with Mommy and Daddy. It is disturbing to me to awaken to the charade I carried on for 6 decades of my life, of pretending we had a normal family life, when all along I never felt accepted or like I belonged and wanted to be back home…not with them.
I can sometimes find myself surprised or shocked by what I find myself saying when I’m in a feeling. I remember when I first found myself saying out loud “Why don’t you love me mummy and daddy”, I could feel the words forming in my mouth and I felt a big resistance to saying them at first. I didn’t want to know that, I didn’t want to know that I had been an unloved child. I remember my father saying when I was a child and later too, “We love you very much” and maybe in his own mind it was true, but there was a huge gulf between what they thought they were giving me and what I needed.
It can get confusing, especially because as you say we didn’t want to know.
Jack,
I’ve thought some more about what you say here: “The conflict:- wanting and needing your daddy to love you and knowing you ‘deep down’ loved him.”
When I’ve felt loving feelings towards either of my parents it’s so far been accompanied with a lot of pain while I’ve been crying in a deep feeling. Whenever I’ve talked about my very bad relationship with my father with my mother (I never talked to him about it) she would just sort of shake her head and say “I just don’t understand it”. The thing she always likes to point to is when as a family we were living in the West Indies when I was a baby and where my father worked as the manager of an orange plantation. She says that when I would hear him coming home from work in his jeep, I would yell out in excitement “Daddy’s Jeep! Daddy’s jeep”. I have no memory of this myself, but what is significant to me is that she has to go that far back before she can point to any real excitement or anticipation that I showed in wanting to be around him. So yes, it seems loving my father is something I had long ago and is “deep down”.
David: It seems you are slowly getting through all this and that is really really great. Just keep relating it all on the blog as you have been doing. I find it to be it’s greatest values, even if it is slow.
It took a long time for all this ‘horror’ to manifest itself and will inevitably take a long time to resolve. The ‘catch word’ is what is meant by “resolve”. It’ll never goes away, as it’s part of our history, as Art janov keeps reminding us … BUT … and this is the great ‘but’; it will have less and less of a subconscious effect on us. We’ll become more and more (connected) aware of what is going on within us and that is such a gift. I take the liberty to say “we”, though I do know I can only speak for myself.
I see my partner (Jimbo) and my siblings that didn’t get this therapy and the unconscious things they say and do, little realizing that there is a history to it all. When this last summer I met my little sister, who suffers from Parkinson’s, she came came up with the words “I always knew that my mother never wanted me”. She was the last of four of us. What she was not able to do was connect the Parkinson’s with the deep knowing that she was not really wanted, while in gestation. There was no way I could help her with that, except to suggest she could cry about her condition. The conversation ended there. They saw me cry on scattering my little brother’s ashes; but other than my grand nephew (his grand dad) no-one else did. To my siblings it was just another ritual in honor of our brother.
I see my partner also getting angry with neighbors and companies he deals with over the phone. All I am able to do is just listen to his endless complaints, and the subsequent explanation to me about why he gets so angry. Fortunately, I am now able to listen … but that took a lot of therapy. It continues to pay off for me.
Jack
Hi Jack. I would bet when you hear your Jimbo arguing with the people on the phone you know it is resonating with something in his past about perhaps unfairness. I think it is good that you can listen to him now after having therapy. We all want that. I think now I am more sensitive to my siblings. I’m a bit more in tune. A few months ago my brother was telling me about the stray cats on his place, and the only one that was friendly and he had kinda gotten attached to and would let him pet it, his stepdaughter gave away to a good home without asking. I could feel his pain and disappointment about this, whereas before I wouldn’t have even given it any thought.
Sylvia: Yeah, I am very aware of my Jimbo’s past since he often talks about it. In the past I used to suggest to him that it was about his past … but he always had a ready answer and it was usually a ‘put down’ of Primal.
I too had ready answers to many things put to me … I’d spent a lifetime with ‘ready answers’. As I keep saying “It took a LOT of therapy to be able to just listen and often not eve have any answer”.
What I really like about this blog is that it is free therapy. That too comes from a background of us, never having enough money. Food was never a problem, since my dad worked for the local co-op grocery store, but nice warm clothes, warm house and even a warm bed were not there for us. The town was part of that industrial revolution with cotton mills belching black filthy smoke into the air and a cold windy street we lived on, and few books except we were given membership to the local library. Even toys were limited, and we never had a bikes like most other kids.
Still!!!! it could have been worse, my father never drank, though he did smoke and was never out of work. BUT that’s not a total consolation.
One other good thing for me was that growing up gay, was never a problem, as I know it was for many other gays.
Boy!!!!! I am getting all this out into the open. It was always there in the back of my mind, but I now know it needs to got out into the open and to way-lay any remnants of shame.
Jack
Jack, thanks for your encouragement. I always appreciate your perspective on things. I believe you did a lot for your sister just by being there, listening and understanding. She must have felt that you would understand for her to say what she did.
It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid then to open it and remove all doubt – Mark Twain
Gretchen (I presume): I liked that quote of Mark Twain’s … Now I realize that I am one of those that left no doubt in the minds of othgers.
Hooooweeeever … It feels OK, for me to be stupid.
Jack
David,
I very much like the concise and to the point way in which you replied to Patricks comment.
you sound like an intelligent person with a good sense of humour as well somehow.
always nice to read your comments.
M
Thanks Margaret, You sound like a good judge of character 🙂 I like your comments too.
Jack, yes and the feelings just keep coming, don’t they. Your past deprivations being denied with the comfort of money has made you frugal. My ma and pa were kids during the ‘Depression’ here in the twenties when everyone was poor. They never did feel comfortable spending a lot of money. But not having the same niceties others had in your neighborhood didn’t give you the group comfort of suffering together. Good that you are looking at these times.
Sylvia: Thanks for the support.
Jack
Sweet girl. Mad talent. Makes me sad.
Larry,
that sounds like a big breakthrough, a devastating insight.
M
I think you are right, Margaret. It is a devastating insight that I want to distance myself from a bit for a while, and just let it percolate in the background. The insight explains an aloneness I never wanted to understand, and yet there is a calmness and strength that comes, after decades of tension and struggle, anxiety and self-defeatism, in finally seeing and accepting the reason for the aloneness, in accepting a nightmarish truth and that decades of anxiety and tension didn’t have to be that way, finally in letting go and accepting becoming at least a shadow of the confident person I should have been…but grievously at such a late late stage of my life…so much of my life was needlessly difficult, was barely lived.
I say this not in an overly rancorous way but Jack now going on about the blog being ‘free therapy’ well I distinctly remember him more than once when I first came on the blog ‘accusing’ me of wanting ‘free therapy’. Said in his nasty amalgam of Winston Churchill and William Shakespeare 2 English ‘icons’ that I suppose he likes to identify with “Methinks you want free therapy” (what a pompous bastard! who of course would also be true of Churchill) Gretchen to be fair to her I remember also ‘defended’ me as in what’s wrong with ‘free therapy’ (she said)
Also many times he used to say the blog is only a blog it’s NOT therapy! He would ‘announce’ this is the usual pompous manner also. Blah blah blah ‘it’s only a blog I like the banter, get over it it’s only a blog (did I mention he used to say over and over it’s only a blog) but now ‘it’s ‘free therapy’ whatever he IS always right. Which I find ironic now he says SOMETIMES he has no ‘answer’ at all well what would ‘quoting back’ me with ALWAYS a (nasty) ‘answer’ be? Constant for years and years ‘quoting back’ to show how ‘stupid’ I was/am how ‘wrong’ blah blah blah. Did I mention blah blah blah blah?. Quoting me back like some demented English asshole school teacher teaching me a ‘lesson’; all the time. I am so ‘stupid’ compared to this bastard this twisted piece of human wreckage I need ‘lessons’; and all the time from this pervert. “Feel your pain” “Grieve your loss” blah blah blah while he ‘acts out’ all the time to the point of massive legal trouble that I bail him out of and more than once. But I am the ‘stupid’ one well yes I am actually.
Whatever it’s cool people change I did, I changed my mind about lots of things still do really so it’s cool but something in me (the fighting Irish?) wants to point out the inconsistencies of some modern pompous version of Churchill and Shakespeare does his usual ‘superior’ act. I don’t want them/him to get away with it scot free. They got away with so much the English from us the Irish ‘scot free’ Is even that word an example something about Scots (and Irish) The English Empire was and literally it seems in later years the Rothschilds of their day turning everything into just money. Now of course we have one of their ‘heirs’ (pompously) wanting money to be ‘abolished just MORE preening and pomping MORE fake superiority. They destroy so many people in the name of money and later when it is all fucked up one of them is around to ‘abolish’ it How fucking annoying how typically pompously (did I mention it was ‘pompous) English. I hate these kinds of mother fuckers…………..and it was our misfortune to be right next door to these assholes as they took over the world. They PRACTICED all their hate and exploitation on us and stupid us or me at least ‘swallowed’ it all thought it was all so wonderful until we/me woke up or at least woke up a bit. The Irish were in that manner (a big one) born under a bad sigh the sign of these bastards. But see they are ‘cool’ Cream were English and how cool were they?
Speaking of things English that I thought were ‘cool’ I look at the Guardian this morning and what well just the usual rubbish. Stories about how bad Trump is, nonsense about the so called Zika virus couldn’t take anymore. I read somewhere that the Guardian now is some kind of MI6 ‘asset’ I don’t know but it sure sounds like it. The BBC also I think if you want news that is a little bit better watch “Russia Today” The English above all are good at public relations and propaganda maybe one reason I used to call Jack PR man. They are the PR people and the Irish their victims…………..Give me Holy Mother Russia anyday ahead of these snakes…….
Patrick: I read these two post of yours and I feel they warrant a response from me.
First: I am aware that I am not a perfect person and as such I hope I can read others that can give me some insights of their’s into me. I am reminded daily of many of my imperfections from many and the one most close to me, reminds me on a daily basis. I hope I am open enough to take in most of it. Whether or not I am able, at this late stage of my life, to make radical changes, I am not sure. All I can hope for, is that I will take note of it, and operate from there.
I remember an occasion when you and I were doing a moving job, before you started Gentle Giant, for Mike Lewis, where you were the driver and I was the helper. You were fun to work with in those days. Also you took me on many trips to various conventions in different parts of the United States. But for those trips, the company paid for, gave me a chance to see many parts of the US that otherwise I would have never had the opportunity to see and experience. Most of them were pleasant for me. Lastly on this theme, I did enjoy working on the application I wrote for the company ‘MovePro’. You helped me greatly in that endeavor.
I stand corrected when in the past I did indeed state that this was not therapy, but merely a blog. Now I feel somewhat differently; demonstrating my inconsistencies.
Pomposity, is something I have always deplored and I do feel we English have a lot of it. I don’t feel I have very much emanating from MY background that would warrant any pomposity om my part. However if you see that in me, I will give it consideration.
The Irish: I have known may Irish people both in and out of therapy and one in particular I was deeply upset, on learning of is death was Ulton, and I cried at the time of his passing. I had worked with him on several moving jobs and I liked the guy. There have been many other Irish that I have also liked. I also agree mostly with your characterization of we British and our not so benevolent history all over the globe. Nothing, I feel, to be proud of.
Donald Trump is someone that I do not like, and I really hope he doesn’t make it to the White House. However, since I am not a citizen I will not be able to vote.
Finally: I hope I am able to accept your characterization of me, not that I feel the same about myself, but I will take note of what you and others say of me. That’s all I am able to do. If any of it brings up feelings in me, I feel, I am able to respond and express.
Jack
Archaic speech mannerisms aren’t pompous, just quaint. Don’t always agree with you Jack, but you’re fine, stop worrying.
> I also agree mostly with your characterization of we British and our not so benevolent history all over the globe. Nothing, I feel, to be proud of.
Don’t forget things like Westminster democracy 🙂 The Evil is not in being British, just human.
Erron: Didn’t know you were British. Interesting you agree with me on some things if not on others. I don’t worry about most of this stuff, BUT if I did I would try to express my worries , least-ways acknowledge it.
Jack
Aussie, actually. British/Irish descent.
Erron: Is being Aussie makes you British?? However, the Irish in you gives one other (half) Irishman that I can like.
Jack
No, I didn’t say I was British, I was quoting you. The paragraph beginning with > was a quote of what you had said earlier.
I always liked to blame the Irishman in me for my drinking problem 🙂
Erron
I really must remember to use proper parentheses when quoting people…
Erron: Got that one straight now. Could be the Irish in you that feels the need to booze, but the English and their pubs are good at it also. Never did go for booze but did smoke heavy and that was a nightmare to get over and stop. I did manage eventually after realizing that .if I could take the pain that came up after stopping, then I could get through it, BUT it took a whole year of having nightmares about it . I just knew after reading Janov, that it was a great pain killer for me, that and sex. Crying did it for me, and I did a lot of it before I began to get some of the benefits
Now at the deteriorating age of 84, I’m well rid of both …. thanks be to Godo (whomever the fuck he turns out to be 🙂 🙂 )
Jack
Last weekend we went to see a concert, John Sebastian the lead guy for the 1960’s group the Lovin Spoonful. It was a one man show in a very small venue, quite enjoyable although he’s lost much of his voice. After this I ordered the group’s box set for a cheap price on the internet, and today was listening in my car. A lot of songs I never heard before and they have a 1960’s pop/rock sound that reminds me of my childhood. Already by age 4 or so, 45 records were some of my most prized possessions, and for my older brother too. Now I buy CDs and my son is into vinyl, he’s got the music bug too.
I just have an overwhelming sadness that music easily brings out, but I’m seemingly somewhat visually impaired as far as memories, so much of my childhood is still blocked.
It was a very sad environment I lived in with my mother so sick and only getting worse, yet I remember so little about her. There was nothing good coming from her that I can remember, but I have a longing to remember something more.
Phil
Phil: I hope it will all come to you … sooner rather than later.. It’s sad indeed.
Jack
I guess when we can’t remember, it might be because we don’t want to know.
Larry,
I guess what it is, I’d like to recall an incident showing that my mother loved me, or even remembered my as a person. Maybe not going to happen if it hasn’t up until now.
Conversely I can’t say that I really remember her as a person, and I feel like I should be able to.
Phil,
I share the same frustration about not remembering, but at least have a good idea now as to why certain memories are blocked… My knowing about what has happened to me thus far has all come from felt feelings.
Wow, 4 is really young to already have a record collection. I’m impressed! It’s great that you’ve passed on the music bug to your son and you have that to share with him. My own vinyl collection, when I had one, was very extensively used, but very shabbily treated, I’m sad to say. I believe it would be a different story if I had one now, I’ve changed quite a bit in the way I treat my things.
I thought to add to what I said here. I cry a lot, and it is all that sadness from what went on with my mother and family but also because of my ruined youth. That is extremely sad as it could have been so much different. and I can never get that back.
Phil, I guess all you can do is mourn the lost youth and what might have been in bits and pieces in your own good time.
Sylvia,
How are you doing?
I’m going to use your comment as a prompt to write some more.
Yes, I am mourning my youth. I cry a lot and I know it’s important to get to specific
things with the therapy and that’s why I comment about it here, as it might be helpful for doing that. At the end of this type crying which lately is often while driving home in my car, I often do get to more specific things. Abandonment by mother is something which regularly comes up. I should take the time to do this at more appropriate moments where I can go into it deeper, but surprisingly there’s no chance of getting a ticket for driving while distracted. I can multitask in this way.
I was describing in an earlier comment how I long for some positive memory of my mother.
It could also be that I’ve built up some fantasy mother who never existed who I could rediscover. It’s probably one of my defenses. I mean I don’t consciously do this but I suspect that is part of what’s going on. She would be a combination of nice people I met as a child, who were sympathetic in different ways. So this fantasized mother would be someone who never forgot about me and treated me nicely throughout my life right up until now. Many people my age seem to still have one or both of their parents, but I lost mine many years ago. I was the youngest in the family and may father was on the older side when I was born.
Just rambling on here, no need for anyone to respond to any of this. Maybe I can still be adopted and have a mommy. Hillary Clinton can do it. She can treat me nicely by fixing up the economy so I can get a more stimulating job, sick time, and more vacation days..
She can improve the mental health system so my sessions and retreats can be paid for and then I can live happily ever after.
Phil
yesterday and last night I had some dreams that seem to indicate some of my fear and sadness are finding a more specific form.
the first dream was about looking for friends on the same wavelength , and finding out they were getting pretty scarce.
I was in the dream focusing on looking for people that I had gotten to know during all the years of that nice pub we had in our neighborhood.
it was a small family run music cafe, and it felt like a place to come home to and meet so many interesting and fun people.
sadly enough it closed down, leaving a huge gap in my and many others social life.
there are a lot of other cafés around but none comes even close to that one, ‘the garden of misery’..
in the dream I only found two or three people of that large group, and I felt mostly scared about ending up all alone .
the second dream was also in a large social setting, but the main person for me there was my late husband.
I had been out on my own fun socializing for a while with some friends of mine, but had after a few hours gone back as it felt the right thing to do as to not leave him feeling left alone.
the next ‘evening’, hard to tell in a dream, he went off with some friends of his, and after some time I ended up feeling lost, on my own between groups of people already engaged in their activities, briefly feeling good about myself when having good reflexes to catch some falling biljart ballls before they could drop on the floor.
but still the increasing sadness took over more and more, and a lost feeling of ‘why doesn’t he do the same for me as I did for him and take care of me not ending up feeling so lost?’
a very sad and lonely lost feeling this time..
still lingering ..
my brother brought our mom over yesterday afternoon, and things went ok, we had cake and tea and he arranged some things with the central heating .
mom is getting old, deaf and repetitive, but cheerful and friendly.
stil it is painful to have to deal with answering the same questions over and over, on one hand for her losing her capacities bit by bit, and on the other hand probably old feelings getting stirred of not really being listened to, in the present of course not quite true in the same way but old feelings look for any opportunity don’t they?
I feel both protective about my mom and about my brother in such a situation, and about myself I guess, trying to make things as ok as possible,but it is sad my mom does not even remember where she lives and also talks about it in a clear way, about how hard it is to not remember stuff like that.
she is not whining or anything, just matter of fact.
at some point I took her by the hand to show her around, as she is complaining more and more about balance problems.
actually it felt nice to hold her by the hand to show her around, and the way she gently squeezed mine seemed to indicate she enjoyed it as well.
her hand was so small and frail.
she played the piano a bit and said many times she really likes the place where I live, it is an old appartment but yes, it has atmosphere .
fear to lose there as well of course, with regard to her I mean.
the lost and lonely feeling, a sad one, is more and more present, but in a straightforward kind of way, not distorted or covered up.
come to thingk of it, my mom asked me a number of times whether I did not have a boyfriend yet, and told me I should go look for one!!
told her I will meet the guy from Cabo Verde in two weeks, but don’t even know if I’d be romantically interested, but right now that does not even matter, just socializing and seeing if the friendship works is the first challenge.
M
A snippet from a NY Times opinion piece below, written by Charles M. Blow, which I just read. It seems to be a very primal analysis of Donald Trump; probably quite accurate, from the podcast mentioned which I haven’t listened to.
“But, in part two of the podcast, D’Antonio delivers a devastating assessment of the man he interviewed, recorded and captured in biography:
“Donald Trump is a bottomless pit of need, and the presidency was the only object big enough that he could imagine seizing to fill up that hole.”
Mr. D’Antonio continued: “It’s not going to be enough, were he to win.”
Yes, this is one man’s assessment, but it feels to me like an astute one, and a fundamentally frightening one.”
Here is what to me is a compelling look into the personal and political evolution of Hillary and Donald in their individual drives to be President. Unfortunately this documentary might only be available in Canada, but here it is:
http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeye/episodes/the-choice-2016
Larry
I couldn’t access it; says it’s for Canada only a limited time after broadcast.
Maybe you could summarize for us
Phil, here it is on youtube. I hope you can access it here.
Thanks Larry, I’m at work now, I’ll check it out later on.
Larry, I’ve watched about half of this documentary, and it is really good. I wonder about certain things such as did Trump decide to run for president because of the humiliation by Obama at that Washington dinner? The footage does seem to show him as humiliated but he was already politically active with the “birther” movement and had flirted with runs for president before. And with Clinton it’s so interesting for a young ambitious lawyer in the center of the action in Washington to decide to move to Arkansas. I didn’t know she had failed her bar exam in D.C. So much of it has to be about need and attention for all politicians, you might think. With Trump it just seems especially evident.
I’ll watch the rest later, thanks for the link. Phil
The overriding impression I get out of it is that they are both flawed people. He and his followers seem dangerously so.
They are both flawed people but Trump much more so, in my opinion. Clinton is about at the level of some past presidents. She will win I think but there will be 4 years of investigations and scandals. Obama has been remarkably scandal free and I will miss that.
Phil: Interesting about Trump, and yeah! for me the realization that the act-out never is enough. There’s no making up for that we never got, save feeling and expressing it.
Jack
phil, that sounds like painful to feel, the wish to remember her as a person, and the feeling you ought to be able to do so.
it almost sounds a bit like you take some of the blame on your shoulders for the lack of connection. Don’t get me wrong, I would feel the same way in your shoes, hopefully some day some more memories wil rise to the surface.
what you posted about Trump and his bottomless need was inspiring, a very good point.
it also made me think about how our act outs can in the end become regarded as a quality by us, I do remember entering therapy boldly stating I did not need anyone and that I was proud of that. ha!…
all I felt since in therapy basically came down to need..
the counterreaction to the real feeling, like in Trumps case being a taker and boaster and showing off with his getting away with grabbing etc., seems to be regarded by himself as being ‘strong’ and selfconfident, and another layer on top of that is all the anger.
anger too seems to become a socalled ”quality’ in many cases, people like to show off with it and repeatedly work themselves up to even be more angry if possible.
thus the actout becomes part of the cover up personality seemingly unless the cycle gets interrupted by serious inward reflexion with assistance of a good therapist or any other trusted person that we can be honest and vulnerable enough with.
i also used to be proud at the start of my therapy to only want/have male friends and no females, well, that one also changed completely.
other females now can feel like naturally closer, if on the same wavelength, which of course does not exclude the possiblity of equally close male friends.
just saying that now the general tendency has shifted towards bonding with the females more automatically instead of automatically regarding them as ‘rivals’.
what does it take to pinch the balloons of this inflated look on our own act outs?
a lot, I guess, as they are solid walls of defense and some cracks need to be there for whatever reason before we dare to imagine how it might be to live without them…
Trump sounded very tired on his opening of that hotel in Washington, his thick layer of defense actout must be under great pressure these days, when some kind of socalled failure threatens and some of his pain and fear must be on the rise.
we humans are a sad kind, today I also heard of the WWF about how two thirds of animal species is already extinct and rapidly declining still. Elephants, gorillas and tigers may not have much time left, and that deeply saddens me, and I do hope it gets turned around in time.
M
Margaret,
That sounds like a big change for you, that you can relate to women in a different
way.
I don’t really blame myself that I am aware for being unable to remember my mother,
although it’s possible.
Kind of related though is that I do somewhat blame myself for having no relationship with my sister. She has cut me off for many years, in a way similar to what I experienced with my mother. I don’t feel I did anything specific to deserve that, but I did little work to maintain our relationship many years ago, and that might have led to this outcome.
Phil
Phil,
I think you also made a lot of effort to reconnect with her, in vain sadly enough..
M
Phil,
yes, I did miss out on a large part of possible female friends.
it is not so that I had none, but I guess I did not always treat the ones I had in the best way really.
also with the guys I did not really pick out the best options for a long term relationship, was more chasing immediate ‘affection’, or a poor substitute for it.
recreating the attempt of turning little interest in me into more interest and in my dreams true love, ha!..
now that seems also to have changed into first needing the guys true interest before mine really gets raised.
I still have to be cautious about the old engrained patterns but something seems to have changed already.
and it is much less on my mind these days.
i can remember the thrill though, of being in love and things seemingly starting to work out!
I know I did plan to join a dating agency, but I seem to be postponing, it all takes so much energy on top of all the rest I need to do..
will give it a try though at some point, nothing to lose.
M
Apropos of nothin’ in particlar, but I’m sure I saw this guy in group once:
Erron
He’s mad because he just found out he’s related to Trump!
I’d vote for him ahead of Trump, less destructive.
If I Fell – MonaLisa Twins (The Beatles Cover) boy this one really brings tears to my eyes. sweet and sad, wanting to trust. to me, as good a version as the fab four.
When I’m Sixty-Four – MonaLisa Twins (The Beatles Cover) they could really screw this up, like others would, but they dont, and as said as good or even better than fab4. makes me cry. i am now 64. didnt quite turn out the way i wanted. who could even imagine 64 when you were 16?
While My Guitar Gently Weeps – MonaLisa Twins (The Beatles Cover) well i probably already related before, listening to this stuff as a kid. you know what a mean..
i dont know how you were inverted, no one alerted you. isnt that just the fucking truth. not my favorite song, but it rung true when i was first finding out about pt.
how intensely down. scorpiosly libranain. noth9ing going to change my world. except that it’s almost fucking over.
i dont want to be happy. every time i got happy, god sent the metal shoes raining on me. lord, i must look like george bush or something.
Otto, here’s a cover I like Sara Niemietz “Turn Turn Turn”
my poor wife.i am not very happy to hear her on the phone every night. she wants to see the cat via facetime, and tell me how she is, and how much money she is going to need. i just want to do what i want to do. i thought we were going to share music together when we first got together. even though she had many gorgeous records, i dont think she really likes music. i have never been able to cry so freely in my room since she has been gone, and it has only been less than 2 weeks. my fantasies of pulling the electric piano and singing get dashed to hell when i know she will be coming back. a match made in heaven. thanks be to ye, god. hmmmm….
Yes, indeed, your poor wife…
Loved hearing that Phil. Thank you. Now I have listened to lots of old music tonight!
I have been feeling unsteady lately – not sure why. Nothing horrendous thank god – just aware of my trepidation…
This was the song I heard Cat Stevens sing in concert and 1 week later my friend Wendy and I moved 3,500 miles away to the west coast at 17. We had been to see Ritchie Havens the week before & he had ignited our hunt for more…
Sad to need to go – and hard – but we did live !!
Cat Stevens, this song and Hard Headed Woman were my favourites for a long time. The songs had more meaning as I experienced more life and understood more what they meant, to me.
Leslie,
Wow, what a move at age 17. No way I could have done that at that age.
Cat Stevens was one of my favorites including this song..
Yeah, he was one of mine too. That is, until he found his “Hard-headed Woman” (check out the lyrics, very instructive) in Islam. Then he started on the repressive stuff, in a complete reversal of his previous, apparent search for human freedom. Culminating in his thinly disguised encouragement of those who would murder Salman Rushdie, for having the gall to write a book not entirely pleasing to Islamists.
Erron,
I found your comment interesting so I investigated and couldn’t find a connection
with Islam and that song. Maybe the lyrics refer to something he later discovered in himself.
Cat Steven’s song “Hard Headed Woman” was on the 1970 album “Tea for the Tillerman” album so it might not have to do with Islam because according to Wikipedia his religious conversion happened in 1976-77 after a near death experience in California:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Stevens
Phil
Phil,
What I meant is that he later found his hard-headed woman, in the strict theology he adopted.
Tea for the Tillerman is a great album, especially loved it at the time.
Erron
Erron,
I played that album a lot, it was one of my favorites along with his others I listen to songs that I like and when the they move me, come up with my own personal meaning about them. The song “Wild World”, for example, was a significant one for me, It felt like it was sung to me, about how hard it is to make it in the world. I thought and felt I really wasn’t going to make it at all. It’s still the meaning to me when I listen to it, sung to me by someone sympathetic to my plight, is how I take it.
Phil
my poor wife likes to chuckle about cat stevens being tossed off a plane for being a muslim.peace train cat stevens. your only young cat stevens. cat stevens who i listened to on kmet in a haze of pot while printing people’s black and white photos at work in 76 or 77, cant remember right off the bat. thanks for the reminder.
i meant oh very young youre only dancing on this earth a short while. immediate tears when i listen to this song. and the goodbye makes the journey harder still. and tho you want to last forever, you =know you never will….
Maybe it a bit ‘low class’ to quote myself (with approval) Anyway here is what I wrote her on Oct 10th, makes a bit more sense now imo………………….
Patrick says:
October 10, 2016 at 10:55 am
Phil – on this thing about Clinton being in jail if he won if it’s true what he says that she destroyed I dunno 30,000 emails AFTER she got a subpoena don’t you think that WOULD land of lot of people and has in jail. Didn’t Martha Steward to to jail for quite a while for something similar but even less like she did not tell the FBI everything something like that. Also these emails would I am sure show massive corruption in terms of money being given the the Clinton Foundation for the State Dept then to overlook all kinds of things. This is pretty serious corruption it involves also Government at the highest levels I have a hard time seeing how that is ‘outrageous’ in any sense.
not just tears, deep sobs into tempurpedic pillow. but what good will that do.
This song that today I heard for the first time, haunts me. I want to see her again. I discovered that deep down I’d still expected I will, followed with deep agony as I accepted that I won’t, while crying and hearing this song.
must be abreaction. no feelings tied to this except my general life of loss and impending loss of life. here is one with some interesting pictures, if you like that kind of thing. i am not sure that i am happy about seeing the scientists who created the atom bomb, but thats life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e75Fe07KZDY
Larry, i don’t know how you cope with your loss of wife. pretty rough. one of the roughest losses imaginable.
Thanks Otto for understanding and validating my experience. It feels generous of you to give me your time and thought.
P, some day they will release the 30,001th email. It was advising Hillary to not hoard so many emails.
That’s a heck of a lot of emails to have written. I doubt that Trump could even write that many emails or even tweets.
The FBI director is a republican. That’s a mistake by Obama coming back to do damage. A very political move by director Comey, totally inappropriate with election day so close.
He already severely “reprimanded” Clinton about this issue last summer. I can’t see anything more coming out of it. Part of their investigation into Anthony Weiner “Carlos Dangerous”. That’s not someone you could ever want on your team.
Phil
Joan Baez & Indigo Girls – Don’t Think Twice, It’s All Right. i used to listen to this on my poor wife’s dylan records. and somehow compare our situation. yes i am a jerk. been trying to leave her since the beginning when it first went sour. i cant feel much about her, i dont have the capacity to love or feel love, for some reason. mostly because loss happens when i let my guard down.
Otto,
I saw Joan Baez together with the Indigo Girls while attending a retreat. They were at an outdoor venue, the Santa Barbara Bowl. I went with Milos, it was quite good and I had never seen Joan Baez.before.Just goes to show it’s never too late, at least until it is too late, with concerts anyway. Maybe with wives too. I sure went through a lot of problems with mine but we are doing very well now and it didn’t seem like that would happen.
Phil
John Sebastian performed this song last week at the concert I went to. Something about this song gets to me. I like the melody and maybe I wanted someone to remember and be that nice to me, and make up for all those bad things.
nice tune. i like younger girl tune. very tuneful, this sebastian guy.
Apparently many are having a problem getting onto the blog because of the number of comments. Gretchen has posted a new blog “Part 4 Jack Waddington Cure” and asked me to place this comment on Part 3.
Jack
no Jack. Gretchen asked me first. harumphffff Gretchen has asked me to let you know she has posted a page 4 for comments. HA!
Otto: I stand corrected. I should have known that I would be in second place to you. But then I’m sometime a bit on the slow side. 🙂 🙂 .
Jack