Cure by Jack Waddington page 6 comments

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590 Responses to Cure by Jack Waddington page 6 comments

  1. Margaret says:


  2. Phil says:

    I found out today that my older son will be leaving to go back to college in a few days, I had thought it was another week. It has been so nice having him here. His friends and him have been hanging out here, which has never usually been the case. They have been busy playing board games, card games, and video games when the friends get here in the evening after work.
    One reason they may like it here is there’s been a lot of food around. This is maybe part of the problem which occurred for me over the holidays. My wife goes crazy cooking with my son around, to the point it seemed that was all she was doing.
    I guess the mother instinct kicks in. The rest of the year he’s perfectly able to satisfy his food needs and it isn’t like he’s demanding it while here. I’m glad he is enjoying it but I do think this pattern contributed to the problem.
    I prefer to sacrifice food for quality time spent together. In fact that’s part of the reason that my routine is to mostly prepare my own food. It avoids problems and I can control my own diet. So I think this was part of the problem of why I ended up feeling ignored the holiday week, and that was a huge trigger.
    There is a family pattern I can notice. My mother-in-law is nonstop with cooking and cleaning when we visit. That’s really all she does and meal times are rigidly scheduled.
    In my own family I don’t know if my mother was like this. My grandmother certainly was. There was nothing to get from her as all she seemed to care about was cooking and chores.
    My wife commented on it tonight. That this is a common pattern when the kids are back from college for mothers. Only, of course, he isn’t a kid anymore. He’s 23 years old and a good cook himself.

    • Phil says:

      I should add more to clarify this. Nothing new here, It’s the same stuff I go through. The old feelings triggered are scenes where my mother is outright ignoring me, not because she’s busy doing anything. In the last years of her life she was really just a blob sitting or lying there. In my mind she was still capable of seeing me, talking to me, and responding to me. But that didn’t happen. My interpretation is that she purposely shut me out. I didn’t count. I wasn’t important.
      I saw her as continually very angry and hostile. Totally unapproachable. To avoid, but we lived in a very small house. Tremendously painful. A recent session earlier this week was very helpful. But there isn’t going to be any one session or sessions that will get me through this Related to this is that my father was unhelpful in dealing with this. It would have been much better if I could have gotten his help.
      Nothing was discussed between us. He was seemingly unaware that I needed his help.

      I do feel like I have defined it better somehow, and have more of a handle on it, rather than it being some infinite endless, never ending feeling, these scenes/feelings with my mother I mean, and how it can get triggered in the present.

  3. John Z. says:


  4. By the way I wanted to address that Paul McCartney story but have had some problems getting on our site. I know a little but I’m sure some of you may know more. I believe Kollerstrom may be mixing up a couple of women . Like most rock stars multiple woman have accused him of getting them pregnant. There was indeed a young girl who was in fact his girlfriend at around sixteen that became pregnant with his child . She was not German and after getting his fathers blessing they made plans to move forward together but soon after she miscarried and the relationship ended. Later there was a German woman, an adult, who claimed she was his child and he did indeed ask for a DNA test which proved he was not the father. I believe this has happened a couple of times with adults claiming he was their long lost father. He would not have asked for a DNA test in the earlier cases ( before the claim that he was dead) because DNA testing was not used in the sixties. So the idea that his not having asked for a paternity test initially and then later demanding one would not actually indicate one person was Paul and one was ” Faul” . I believe paternity testing was first used in courts in the eighties. We forget that things like paternity testing which are routinely used today were not necessarily around as recently as the 60’s.

    • Patrick says:

      Gretchen – I don’t think there is an ‘argument’ here my understanding is Paul ‘accepted’ he was the father of the German girl I am sure you are correct there was no DNA tests at that time (early 1960’s) but probably the whole thing was ‘settled’ for not so much money or whatever. It’s just that later when the girl had grown up I’m guessing around the 1990’s and she felt “Paul” should pay here more money that the ‘later Paul’ (Faul) insisted on a DNA to get out of it all together. And he did as he tested negative as being her father.. This in itself does not ‘prove’ anything (does anything really ‘prove’ anything if you get real strict about it) but it strongly suggests something. More than likely Paul (the original one) WAS the father why else did would he ‘accept’ that he was so ‘his’ later behavior (new Paul) is strange given that and strongly suggest he knew FOR SURE he was not the father at all. It is just one small thing in the book but it did strike me there are lots and lots more if you care to go into it.

  5. Miguel says:

    “You see, Miguel, PC is merely a matter of being a decent human being, someone who wants an emotionally sustainable society.”

    I do not belong to any political party; I do no not sustain any political ideology in particular, having said that:

    I agree with you. But who decides what is being a decent human being? What qualities must have a sustainable society’ Because many politicians, journalist, social scientist believe they are in possession of the revealed truth and many times in from of the problem jump very easily with the wrong conclusion so hurting somebody else.

    I agree with you that in the sixties it was very good the fight for the civil rights. But could it be that now many people having lost their jobs due to delocalization of factories due to globalization demand solutions for their economic worries .
    Of course no matter what there are many angry people out there.

    Olso finally it was a republican president Lincoln who abolished slavery in the USA and was an example for the world.

    Of course I do not agree with a person being ridiculed be a handicapped or not. Could it be the Trump ridiculed this person because he was being ridiculed by so many journalists, so that he was ridiculed not for being disabled but just for being a journalist?

    It a candidate had a personality disorder and were from the left wing would you still criticized him/her the same way.’

    Phil Thank you.

    Jack I whish you a recovery .

    • Sylvia says:

      Hola Miguel, yes I would talk about a leftist political figure also. I think we are all afraid in what we see in trump. So many others see his personality and worry too. I am not sure he is of the left or right persuasion, he has changed parties five times. He is more for himself than any party, I think. It is scary knowing someone with such a volatile temper is in charge. To me, my vote is for the person, not the party, having in the past voted for Bush Sr.– but not Bush Jr.
      Hasta luego,

  6. Patrick says:

    I realize there is too much talk about Russia/Putin etc but this is nice little short. Is this kind of thing one reason all these so called ‘journalists’ (fake newsers) don’t like him

    • Daniel says:

      Yes, either that or that about 100 of them have been assassinated since he took office, and that freedom of press in Russia is practically non-existent.

      There’s an old Russian joke which you might be familiar with comparing the US and Russian democracies: “Yes, they are both democratic. You can stand on Pennsylvania Ave. in Washington DC and shout: ‘Down with Obama’ and you won’t be punished. Likewise, you can stand in the middle of the Red Square and shout ‘Down with Obama’ and you also won’t be punished”.

      By the way, did Putin answer the question?

      • Patrick says:

        Daniel – I honestly would like to get to know more about the ‘reality’ of Putin’s Russia. I always have to say “I don’t know” when people say he is the richest man in the world or that he has journalists killed etc etc. Just going by what I see in international relations I can find no fault with him. He seems to promote peace at every opportunity you may laugh at that but I wouldn’t. Syria was about to be pulverized ala Libya by the Obama/Clinton crime cabal and he seemed to single handedly stop it by making that deal about ‘chemical weapons’. Many other examples and I think his action in the Crimea was sober and restrained and the right thing to do. Many more examples I won’t bore people with

        Do you know of any good books about what Russia really is like nowadays. I would be interested and you do seem to ‘know’ something but are you just repeating what is gossip and received wisdom. I am not saying you are but I am asking because just as I don’t really know I find Putin’s accusers generally don’t know either.. I suspect also in this whole brouhaha going on now there is some “Jewish” aspect Jewish power and influence is a big factor in Russia so I am sure Putin does not operate with a free hand. The Jewish power and influence in this country is more to the point as I keep saying we always get a “President for Israel’……………..anyway I suspect there are things going on here that we are not privy to maybe you know even a little something that might add to our understanding. I know the Russian mob (really Jewish Russian mob) was a big factor in New York and some of them have/had connections with Trump in real estate etc etc. I don’t think in any sense that “Putin” has something on Trump but a few Russian Jewish oligarchs just might. Just like here it seems a lot of these kind of guys are pulling the wires behind the scenes as it were. I really though am a bit of a loss about what is really going on maybe you can throw even a little light on it. And I am being serious so no need to respond a la Gretchen with a bunch of ‘bad’ names that explains nothing.

  7. Margaret says:

    I am struck by that image of your oldest son having his friends over to play board games etc.
    it is such a healthy homely scene, and unexpected for young guys that age.
    it does seem to show your house is a real home where he and his friends like spending time and hanging out.
    I never felt comfortable bringing friends over, and mostly it was me staying over at their house.
    it is good to hear you are getting a good handle on those difficult feelings you have on your plate.
    and you can be proud of the home you created despite it all. now your sons and their friends, and some day the grandchildren as well with their little friends, smiley

    and plenty of food..

    • Phil says:

      It’s funny to see these guys behaving like they are 13 years old. My son is a computer and electrical engineer in graduate school. They drove over to the local hobby shop last night to buy more cards for their “Magic” card game. I’m really glad to see that my son is maintaining his childhood friendships in town. More reason for him to visit. and it just seems healthy.

  8. Margaret says:

    ha, I did send in my application for the sailing week next summer!
    and instead of the retreat I plan to spend more time at the seaside with my friends as well in summer.
    not having to leave the country and the cats gives me more space and energy to spend on fun things here, and next year I will feel again more like going through the travelling hassle to get to L.A. and a retreat.
    it feels ok, not much doubt in my mind, it seems good in this stage to focus on the good side of life and on improving my social circle here.
    just went to the doctor for a routine check-up, and had to walk in the snowy rain and stormy wind, so I rewarded myself on the way home with delicious Belgian fries and some other fried stuff, mmmmm….
    have new curtains here in the living room that my brother hung up yesterday, dark grey with white stars all the way down to the
    floor, I am like in heaven, smiley.
    the plan was lime green but that did not work out, so this was the option my brother chose and I find it kind of funny, a bit seventies and a bit Merlin the sorcerer atmosphere, smiley.
    together with the central heating that finally works very well, my place is getting very comfortable now, just in time for the freezing termperatures and storm they expect here.
    I feel bit by bit more in control of my life, on some moments at least, and kind of peaceful.
    the Cabo verde guy called me, and I told him I want those recorded piano lessons, smiley.
    now it feels like we are on a more real rhythm, no big expectations but just a starting friendship.
    my life is getting busy again after the holiday season, which is good, a lot of things to do and less feeling of emptiness.
    am curious about the lecture about the effect of pets on their owners.
    seems a very interesting new field, anthropozoology. I would not mind making it part of a specialization of mine later on.
    has anybody seen the clips about Thor the cat on Youtube?
    don’t know if I spell Youtube right as I never go there myself.
    but we had an item on the news about this Belgian cat that is getting so famous there it now has an official manager.
    the girl that takes care of the cat was too overwhelmed with mails etc.
    it is a cat with jaguarlike spots, and a real star seemingly, very used to the camera.
    my cats were staring at the screen as he , Thor, had kind of a loud meow as well. my cats are very polite with their little miw in case they really want me to open the tab for running water, or when I walk by the drawer with their munchies.
    the faintest little brief high pitched miw?
    very endearing and effective really, as who would say no to such a sound?

    • Phil says:

      Those sound like good plans for the summer. Sailing should be exciting.
      I’m sure your kitties are glad you won’t be leaving country.

    • Larry says:

      That seems like a big brave step to spend time with friends by the sea instead of at the retreat, Margaret.

      My life should be so full.

  9. Margaret says:

    Phil, I am sure you are right. right now they are dozing and purring each on one corner of the bed.
    I love to feel them laying around when I wake up at night or in the morning.
    one sometimes lays next to my pillow, and always one by my feet. or both of them cudddled up in one big pile of furry tails and legs.
    that way I can stroke them both together with one hand.
    the best ways to get to sleep and wake up, stroking the soft fur of a purring cat that will invariably show he likes it by stretching in delight and coming for more.
    Otto, still not thinking of a new kitty? good for the kitty and good for your blood pressure.
    and no, you are not too old.
    take good care of yourself, M

  10. Daniel says:

    For the sake of brevity and clarity let’s condense it all:
    Six million Paul McCartney’s were killed by vaccines administered by circumcised Jewish people.

    • Patrick says:

      A lot of people have been killed by ‘circumcised Jewish people’ and vaccines is one of the main vehicles though they are usually not killed just disabled for the rest of their lives so doctors and the medical industry in which Jews are quite prominent can rake all their money and happiness from them, ruin families but hey there is money to be made!. Paul McCatrney’s case I like because it is not so gruesome but is an example of how illusions can be peddled and maintained and as for the 6 million figure I am sure you know as you are not a fool it is just some ‘iconic’ number that appeals to the Jewish ‘imagination’ and has nothing much at all to do with ‘reality’

  11. Patrick says:

    Also Daniel you were pretty much forced on the defensive about the circumcision issue so no need to go on the ‘offence’ with me about it I know here it is acceptable to ‘bag’ on me but let’s try to keep our eyes on the reality here. Circumcision is no ‘joke’ and vaccine damage is even less of a joke though I know it might seem cool to laugh off other peoples suffering.I don’t see it that way at all. It’s pretty serious business unfortunately

    I say all this also knowing you have some very nice qualities including defending and rescuing me when all the ‘true beliver primallers’ are deaf dumb and blind either deliberately and maybe because they are often very ‘un-conscious’

  12. “A lot of people have been killed by circumcised Jews” that is the funniest thing I have heard in I don’t know how long. I don’t even know what to say it’s just too hysterically funny! As for calling people bad names like Nazi. Rest assured the Nazis don’t think they are bad names so no worry. Remember they like being Nazis and they don’t think they are bad. Yes I would not want to call people bad names. That would indeed be very very bad. After all it might show some bias on my part … yeah that would be bad. Gretchen

    • Patrick says:

      Gretchen – I guess that was an unfortunate thing to say my only excuse is I was riffing off what Daniel said. I might have thought a bit more about it but the whole point (for me) is just say what is on my mind and usually early in the morning after I have just woke up when the ‘censors’ or ‘repressors’ have not kicked in yet. It’s a form of ‘therapy’ for me to just let whatever is on my mind go……………….free association I suppose you could call it

  13. Otto Codingian says:

    good group. bad group. good to hear people having their feelings, bad that i did not have mine. a million things that i could have said, a million feelings that are always boiling over from just below my skin. but i was too tired and new people there so i had no chance to speak. i don’t feel devastated from remaining silent like i used to, but i don;t feel good about it, that is for sure. i guess the 10 oclock groups barry had over xmas and new year were better for me, since i am more alive in the morning and i didn’t have to work overtime on those 2 saturdays. there really is no solution in me going to group and doing well if i have to work overtime, except it is probably good for me to be around like-minded people for a few hours and have some laughs and listen to people’s feelings that trigger mine. but no release of my feelings is a drag andi hate going home feeling somewhat bad, but at least not devastated. just a little pissed but nobody’s fault but mine. well maybe i am somewhat devastated, too tired to care.

  14. Otto Codingian says:

    Wife is thinking of a new kitty. i would love a new kitty. saw a hungry kitten reaching up to me probably hoping for foodc, when i was bending over to give her homeless owner 3 bucks. then i went to work and felt guilty that i did not go offer to buy her some cat food because i doubt that she could take the kitten into the 7/11 and what the hell can you buy for 3 fucking bucks anyways. but we charged many thousands of dollars for vets trying to keep our pets alive and i cant pay it back and i dont want more vet bills for a new cat and i don’t want to die and have a pet go to the animal shelter like i went to my insane uncles’s when my mom died. but Z will probably do whatever she wants, as usual, and nothing i say will matter.

  15. Otto Codingian says:

    i’m down, i’m really down. i’m, down down on the ground. going now to buy enough food to kill the pain. utter devastation has raised its ugly head. bad thoughts cross my mind.feel so suicidal, even hate my rock and roll. not really feeling suicidal, just some good lines by j.l. but i feel bad bad bad. overload of horrible feelings from the past, present, and future. obviously slow suicide by overeating and eating crap food, probably coming close to the end having done this for many years. just saying. dont want a fucking thing. it is just a joy to say it. z says she is coming home soon, i have nothing to give to her, and she has everything to take from me (of the very miniscule amount of anything that i have).

    • Larry says:

      “just what I don’t need, some real thing to push my misery aside.” You are a master of expression Otto. After reading all you’ve shared and what your life is like, when you write “but I feel bad bad bad……” I feel a glimpse of how you must feel. I wonder how you go on. I hope this therapy helps you face your horror and eventually change your life for the better.

  16. Otto Codingian says:

    now z has the neighborhood group website, she says these jerks want to have permit parking on our street. this is just a mix of old whites and latino families neighborhood of lower/middle middle-class older homes. must be some fucking yuppees moving in. fuck that shit. assholes abound in this shitbag world. hopefully the latinos speak against this, since their extended families’ cars swamp the neighborhood streets when they get together from time to time. luckily we have a driveway. just what i dont need, some real thing to push my misery aside.

  17. Larry says:

    I’m on the recovering side of a cold that I noticed last Thursday I was coming down with. In nursing myself back to health I’ve kept indoors to myself a lot the last few days. Feelings are jamming up. I need to but don’t have the stamina yet to sink into them. I don’t have the strength yet to go to the gym to exercise off stress and generate some feel-good hormones. I’m feeling more and more listless and gummed up with pain. I don’t like the increasing lethargy. It’s difficult to feel happy or optimistic.

    I saw the new movie “Lion” with a friend last night. At the end as the credits rolled I sat on, stunned, unmoving as the rest of the audience slowly rose to its feet to leave. I felt shaken by what the film had shown. I felt like I was in big group, back in the 80’s, barely holding it together on the verge of a primal, waiting for the feeling of safety of being attended by a therapist. I felt like I was in an earlier part of my life, seeing right in front of me all that went wrong, a lifelong unconsciousness suddenly only a howling awakening cry away. It took mental effort to walk from the forever obscure mental gate finally about to yield to insight and feeling, to make myself rise up out of my seat and out of my daze, to think of my friend and gather myself to some norm of social functioning for leaving the theatre with her. She was powerfully moved by the film as well. We know something about each other’s lives and from that how the film might be affecting each other, which helped me to cope as I made my way out in a state of mild confusion less sure where I was in time and space and what I needed.

    The movie, based on a true story, is about a little boy in India growing up with a materially poor but very loving mother and older brother and sister. He becomes separated from them and lost over 1000 miles from home. After several dangerous months, he is adopted by very loving Australian parents who raise him in Tasmania. In his twenties, poised on the brink of a successful life, he is tormented to the point of ruin by his awakening need to find his original family. The story stirred many emotions in me.

    The thing is, even though he had loving parents and adoptive parents, he was understandably tormented by the separation and needed resolution. Watching the movie the wound to his life is so obvious that the separation caused. My wound that‘ve worked so hard to try not to see became obvious to me too. But my situation (and yours) is much worse. We don’t have the loving parental support that he did, that moved me so much to see at the end. As much as I don’t want to see it, you and I are really lost children.

    I keep waiting for the resolution of Mom and Dad feeling exhilarated to find me and wrapping their arms lovingly around me.

    • errona says:

      “I keep waiting for the resolution of Mom and Dad feeling exhilarated to find me and wrapping their arms lovingly around me.”

      – God, that would be so good. Such a peaceful thought. But for me, such thoughts can only partially patch the gap where the raging need-animal threatens. Still, a great post and I thank you for it, Larry.


    • Phil says:

      We won’t be getting that Hollywood ending. Just what we can get from our very
      painful recovery process. Not at all as it should be but at least some chance that
      others needing it don’t get.
      It does sound like a really good movie

  18. Otto Codingian says:

    still devastated. sorry for posting so much but too much pain. listening to tool 46 and 2, some girl drummers doing cover of it. my youngest son had drums in his late teenage and loved that band. i ignored him and his brother to the point of near-death. i am fucking poison. i don’t reach out to them at all in present life, my aura is poison. i am seeing young women everywhere since group yesterday and I cant look. they remind me of mommy disappeared. i feel horrible.

  19. Phil says:

    I hope you will keep on posting as much as you feel like. I’m hearing it as a lot of painful stuff,
    but I guess that’s what the blog is for. It’s encouraging for me to continue writing about what I go through. I find it better than keeping a private journal that no one reads.
    I’m guessing that you’ve done the best that you could for your sons. Not at all easy being a parent.

  20. Otto Codingian says:

    Couple of things that came to my mind in group yesterday, that I could have said but didn’t. someone was talking about being hated, which brought an image to my mind of baby me sitting on the floor in my uncle’s house, sometime in the 8 months that I stayed there, while my mother was in the hospital dying of polio. My feeling was, “what is this”? , meaning, where’s my mom, who are these people, what is this different home, all these unfamiliar sights in the living room etc, “I don’t understand.”. There was a lot of that confusion for me yesterday in group. I was not awash in the feeling, but it was just below the surface and had I been smarter, I should have just gone to the little room and see if I was able to let it out. I think I was very much hated by my uncle, I was not seeing any of this in the image, although that definitely became an issue with him at some point. It’ s just that someone else’s feeling brought that image to mind. Thankfully, I was not hated for my entire childhood because I didn’t stay at my uncle and aunt’s house forever, as this patient must have stayed with his mom and dad. I got different pains throughout the years; being totally ignored and left alone a lot. People in group talked about their joyous present lives, which of course makes my dismal life seem even worse. I was afraid to say anything at all to anyone, about what they were saying, like I was going to poison what their feeling was. And there was a new young woman in group, who of course reminded me of my mom and the yearning for her gets set into motion. I wanted to ask her why she had come to therapy, but I did not want to get chastised for bothering the new patient’s space. Anyway I am devastated and I cant do much about it, it is overload. Another thing was related by someone else, that made me feel bad, how their parent only thought of himself, and as the parent was described, it sounded a lot like me, how I was and am, to my 2 kids. Oh well, “short life and a merry one”. Not really, it’s the other one. I did have an insight that the “new situation” of being at my uncle’s house has kind of been played out in the present. The new situation that has taken place in my life is old age. I don’t recognize the person I married 40 years ago, so I am always saying that I don’t know who she is anymore. So I live in a nightmare world of cold, dank, grey old feelings clouding reality every second of my life. Another patient I had not seen in many years also came to this group, and I was reminded of the last group I was with him, many years ago, in which I confided stuff about my baby boy and how I was failing him already. What a fucking horror story. This also would have been the time of year that I was at my uncle’s house in that image, cold and grey.

  21. Otto Codingian says:

    no non-primal person would believe the screams that come out of us. some of you might feel comfortable about doing it in your homes or cars, but i have enough trouble with loud crying with neighbors in earshot distance. good night. z in backpain in the midwest, she says the kid dont cater to her neediness like i do. that is the truth. good night.

  22. Margaret says:

    it does sound like you do long to reach out or connect with your family despite not feeling able to.
    I hope you can find some ways to start doing so in time.
    in my experience it often takes a conscious effort first, to break the ice of one’w own defense, then the feeling part folows later.
    in my case I could gradually make some changes with tiny steps at a time.
    you did come a long way since you first appeared on this blog.
    I remember the time you did not talk to anyone at all.
    that has changed and it is good having you around here.

  23. Otto Codingian says:

    Margaret, i am not expecting any changes to take place. baby steps towards the grave, at this point. it would take monster steps to change my life at this point. Or course, everything is always all about me, i have little to give to anyone, even if i could see past my own pain, and see someone else’s need. I don’t feel like reaching out to anybody and i doubt if i will. maybe to a homeless cat woman. i will take the dead black cat’s remaining crunchies in case she is at 7/11 tomorrow morning, so the kitten won’t starve. Everything is old feeling for me. Starving kitten equals starving baby me, once upon a time ripped from mom’s breast and left in the dark to rot, and continually starving thereafter every day for the rest of my life. Where did that deliciously-milky young alive warm caressing cuddling gorgeous perfumey mommy go? not here. torn off of me by a roll of the dice, i tells ya. i must write more in a while, i need to take a pain-killer so i can at least wash my clothes so i can go to work for the next million years, moving computers from a to b until my back says “no more”. poor poor pitiful me. anyway thanks for the advice. hope you are doing well.

  24. Otto Codingian says:

    Just total rage. no where to express that rage. loud rage. tired of paying bills. tired of being a slave. not getting bombed though. no bombs falling on l.a. no cluster bombs tearing me apart in l.a. feels bad enough though.

  25. Otto Codingian says:

    well the beautiful dream of this morning, fueled by thoughts of mommy and talk of in last Saturday’s group, was me and some lady lounging in bed, me stroking her foot maybe, just talking about whatever we wanted, didn’t matter, no stress, the newness of us being together. not seduction not sex, but with the possibility of it until something woke me out of that delerium. damn figgiey dog. the beautiful young lady. strangely looked like meryl streep. one of those dreams. and someone walked in with some tobacco pipes of someone who had died, gving them to me strangely thin pipes, not sure what that was about, although pictures of my mom show her to have been skinny. this longing for her and unattainability of her weighed very heavily on me getting together with girls in teenage years and beyond, not helped by being torn from my aunt after 3rd grade and then long year in military school with bitch barricks mom. I should concentrate on how beautiful that dream was though, I guess, although that kind of idyllc love will never present in my life again. now off to doctor who will threaten me with “diabetic cops”, since i have been medicating with food and thus gained more illicit weight. what a jerk. is that going to motivate me?

  26. Margaret says:

    Otto, that sounds like a great dream.
    I have the occasional dream like that, all hopeful and happy, and well, can only be glad to have them and maybe they prevent me from utter hopelessness, as you really never know what the future brings…

    and in any case the dream brings a few moments of bliss.
    my own mind comes up with all kinds of attractive partners, some of them from my real past, some of them completely made up by my mind, some of them not even so pretty but always attractive in some way, at least in the good dreams.

  27. Margaret says:

    is the blog so silent or do the mails not get through?
    the lectures about the pet effect were medium interesting. a lot of unraveling of variables which do make sense, like age and situation of people, young, old, single, lonely etc. and which feeling the presence of the pet, mostly dogs, seemed to supply in, like need for conection, affection, caretaking etc.
    the second speaker focused more on the lifestage effect as surely the focus shifts when for example pet owners get children who then start trying to pull tails of dogs at some age, or grow adult and leave home and situation changes again, and even more when loss of partner.
    makes sense but my remark was what about the simple extra value of having animals around regardless of filling in some kind of void?
    do children growing up without animals miss out on something, are they even aware of it is f so?
    it is an interesting field , also the effect of animals on for example people with dementia or autism.
    I just happened to plan a visit to my mom’s nursing home with a freind with a little dog, on a day there is an organized walk. my friend told me after I suggested it to her, that she had already done something like that a number of times and that it always was a great experience.
    now I also heard of a nursing home where they simply have a resident dog, an old friendly labrador, which seems great.
    after the lectures we talked about these kind of options, like people allewed to take their pet to a service flat, but some comment came back it can cause big problems if too many dogs are around.
    also comments about high costs of animal based ‘therapies, and whether it was worth the costs….
    and if the animal would not suffer.
    all makes some sense of course, but well, so ‘practical’, …

    for me what was missing is that special thrill of interacting with an animal, specially as a child.
    I vividly remember that very first time I was allowed to assist on giving the horse in the back of our house, someone else’s horse, a bucket of water in the summer, as it might be thirsty. the feeling of instantly falling in love with that big animal with its strong delicious scent, smelling of grass and herbs, drinking up all the water pushing its soft nose into the bucket.
    and then cats and dogs. I remember how i liked gently, very softly, pushing on these little cushions of a cat’s foot, while they were laying for example suckling their kitties, and look at the claw coming out of its enclosure.
    the cats always allowed me to do so so I must have done so very gently.
    so one of my questions was what about kids simply learning to love animals?
    and to treat them with gentleness and respect?
    but of course in today’s world that all needs to be translated in measurable terms in order to fal under the criteria of ‘research topic..
    so maybe a study could show how children who grow up without interacting with animals often lack whatever, empathy or caring or trust, some kids I know are actually afraid of cats or don’t like then as they were never allowed to be close to them.
    but then again one reply was that sometimes in one family there are different kids, osme of them interested in animals and some not.
    still, could be an interesting field if aproached in the right way.
    people with dementia as one of the listening students said, were in her working experience really temporarily ‘woken up’ out of their inertia by visits of a friendly dog. and every visit a bit more, until for the sixth visit the dementing lady even started to keep some food ready for the dog that still had to arrive.
    so there definitely are effects, and even if the only effect would be on the moment itself, the big smile on that old face seems worthwhile enough, even while no memory remains afterwards.
    no conscious memory, but somehow the mood has been lifted momentarily and some happy moments have been shared.
    i guess I will always be more of a direct experience person than a theory or research person, but still, I value that irect experience so highly I feel it deserves credit in the theories as well somehow.
    sorry if I am babbbling, smiley, making up my mind, and lack of good conversation some of the time.
    yesterday we had some good news at the nursing home, we found out my mom has joined the group for lunch, and might do so more instead of staying in her room for the meals.some ofthe nurses seem to be more willing now to make some effort to encouage and support her.
    and also , a friend of my mom, a 92 year old lady, told us mom had joined the gym in the morning several times, and had had fun as well.
    so that is great to hear, that she socializes more and more.
    she looks very good and seems to feel very good as well, which is such a relief and reassurance.
    now in the coming months she will have to change rooms as they are remodeling and it is not entirely sure yet if she will be able to come back to the same spot with a very nice view on the garden.
    so we will have to follow that up.
    but all is fairly peaceful, have been studying, boring course of industrial and organisatiional psychology, wit dozing cat next to me on the couch. makes it al so much nicer, soft silky warm affectionate kittycat nearby.

  28. Phil says:

    I had dogs as a kid but as an adult our family could only have small pets like hamsters, turtles, and fish. My wife can’t tolerate dogs and cats in the house, and although my youngest son always wanted a dog, it turns he gets allergies from them at his friend’s homes. It’s true that dogs are probably somewhat disgusting to relate to as companions, so I’ve somewhat adopted my wife’s perspective. They eat and chew on all kinds of nasty treats and shed a lot of fur. Cats are no doubt cleaner but indoor accommodations have to be prepared so they can relieve themselves. But with all this in mind, I’m sure I would have gotten my son a dog.

    I should report on the bad week at my house. My wife came down with the flu. I had in mind having a discussion with her about recent issues, but that couldn’t happen. She still seems a little hostile even if she wasn’t sick and I’m not sure the discussion would have gone well in any case.
    Our two sons had car accidents. Yesterday the older one totaled my wife’s car on the way home from the gym; where I had met him in my car. He is OK, but shook up, as am I. This was a completely avoidable accident. He slammed into a car stopped in the road waiting to make a left turn, No reason at all for that to happen. He must have been going at least 45 MPH.
    He wasn’t using his phone and he has no explanation except for being mentally distracted. Also, at the gym, he had been stunned by a ball hitting him in the nose, and that might have had something to do with it.
    The whole thing was unbelievable and happened 5 minutes from our house. There were 5 cop cars with flashing lights, an ambulance, and a large fire truck all at the scene of the accident. The other driver was very angry and it was impossible to speak to him. Everyone is OK which is the main thing. We are also sad and hassled to lose yet another car. That car is like a long time companion who brought us many places through good and bad times and is now gone and will have to be replaced.
    I gave my son a big hug at the scene of the accident and he was able to cry. He cried some more when he got home. He’s been home an extra day or two to help us because of what happened to another car. So he’s very upset about that and had a perfect driving record up until now.

    My other son was driving in poor conditions with his friends when his car spun out of control and hit a tree, The impact was to the back of the car. The back windshield was taken out and the car is all banged up in the back. He has been on vacation for a month and this happened one day before he has to start commuting to college again. He’s fine as are all of his friends. Old car, no collision coverage. I was quite pissed about this. He shouldn’t have been out on slippery roads as I gave him plenty of warnings. He hardly worked at all this past month and has no money. Guess who has to pay for all this?
    I wish those self driving cars would get here sooner.

    • Sylvia says:

      Gosh Phil, what a terrible week for your family. Thankfully all are safe. It really is a fallacy that when you are grown you don’t need your parents anymore. Your boys are lucky to have you and your wife to look to for guidance. Hope the coming weeks are more settling for you.

      Margaret, I’ve heard that raising puppies gives inmates some purpose and is good for letting the guys open up to their feelings in an otherwise very defended situation in their confinement. Also some hospitals use therapy dogs. Petting and talking to them seems to help the patients feel better and not need as much pain medication.

      So glad your mom is doing well. My mom use to carry a little toy stuffed dog at the nursing home. I think cats would be a good addition to a home, giving it a more homelike feeling. It’s always easy to be nice to a pet and you don’t have to pretend at all with them, they are so easy to reach out to and so thankful for attention.

      My kitties are constantly getting into trouble knocking over things and flying through the house like the wind is carrying them along. I let them out and they get up on the roof and stomp around. But they are loving too.

    • Larry says:

      Self-driving cars wouldn’t work here. They need to be able to sense lane-delimiting white lines. Lines here are obliterated by blowing snow, by hard packed snow and ice road surface, by sand and salt that is spread over icy road surface, or by dirty grey slush and water when the temperature rises to above freezing as it has for the past week. Also I doubt the car would know what to do when it encountered a pot hole. I think self-driving cars would survive only in LA.

      • Phil says:

        The car that my son crashed was a Subaru. I went and looked at it today, it has an extreme amount of damage to the front end. He was clearly very distracted and not paying close attention to the road. It’s a miracle nobody was badly injured or killed.
        A new Subaru, which we might get, can come with automatic braking. Something I definitely want and which could have prevented this accident.
        I think that self driving cars are coming. The cars will keep improving as well as the roads to make that possible.

      • Larry says:

        Better roads and automatic braking will be a good thing.

        Brings to mind a couple of car accidents I was involved in, one when I was 16 wasn’t my fault, and one when I was 19 that was my fault, both sobering. Another time when I was 19 or 20 I drove from campus right across town, about 10 miles, and suddenly woke up as i realized I was going through a red light, amazed and wondering how I had got there and where had I been in my mind all that time driving across the city. It never happened again. I feel that an accident that you survive is an excellent learning experience.

  29. Margaret says:

    wow Phil, so glad your sons are ok and noone got hurt!
    it touched me what you wrote about the hug you gave your eldest son and that he was able to cry.
    and hopefully the youngest one will have learned a good lesson now..
    what a week indeed!
    and Sylvia, always so nice to read what you write, and to hear about your kitties!

  30. Jack says:

    Testing, testing: It seems I am not getting emails for new comments.

    Meantime, I have and seen the dermatologist again this morning and he reports it appears to be healing …. BUT ever so slowly. According my very own physician … Jimbo it’s MRSA. I have no idea what-so-ever about that diagnosis, but it sounds impressive.


    • Phil says:

      Jack, glad it’s healing.
      It’s a “superbug”. Methicillin resistant Staph aureus. It is resistant to important antibiotics usually used against it, but still susceptible to some antibiotic.

      In the news this week was the story of a woman who died from infection from a pan resistant bacteria; resistant to all antibiotics. But luckily those are very rare cases, as nothing can help. Part of the problem is that overuse of antibioitics helps the bacteria strains.evolve resistance

      • Jack says:

        Phil: Thanks for the info and my Jimbo confers. Since I rarely take antibiotics and try to avoid then when possible, as well as pain killers; seems like I might have overcome any resistance in my own case. the dermatologist seemed happy with the healing and I have a follow-up in six weeks … which pleatheth me. I don’t not like going to the hospital … it reminds me of my own pending termination of life.

        It’s hard to believe I’ve been breathing for 84+ years.

        I now seem to getting my blog emails … maybe the last one before, this one, I terminated incorrectly.


  31. Larry says:

    Yesterday at work I submitted my notice that I will retire at the end of April. I tried in December to send it but I couldn’t make myself do it then. It is an emotion laden step. Noreen helped me to put this life and my career together. She should be here part of it now. I miss her. No life partner and soon no meaningful career stabilizing my life anymore. Just me and the great unknown ahead.

    I’ve been crying deeply about it a few times today. Life can suck. Life can feel like I don’t want to go on. For taking Noreen away I want to get back at it and refuse it’s terms. But life is unyielding, non-negotiating, capricious. Life can be dangerous and horrific. We are no more than soft pink vulnerable bags of soon to be rotting flesh, powerless against life’s whims. It pisses me off to be so helpless. It hurts so much to have to just take the battering it dishes out. And if you’ve been hammered, it’s hard to get back in the game with enthusiasm, knowing you could be hammered again, any time. If life could be personified, I’d knock it into a corner and with heavy boots kick it in every soft fragile spot for the wrongs it’s done me.

    But I guess somewhere inside of me I know I have to come to the understanding that the best way to play life is to sign the contract, accept the terms-fair or not, grab the reins and make the most of the ride I have left, no matter whatever joy or pain may be coming my way.

    • Jack says:

      Larry: A very well written and moving comment, but I do not fully agree with some of it. You got a very bad deal in your start to this life, and it seems there is no way beyond it. However, though I know you know all this, there is a way to prevent it from being totally debilitating for what is left. It will never go away … that is your history, but it doesnt’t have to drag you all the way down for the rest if it. I too cried this afternoon about knowing that it’s all coming to an end. That’s the bad bit. The good bit is I can now go on for a little while; taking in what life offers right now … this very minute.

      I am lucky … I have a partner, and yep it’s not ALL roses but there is someone there. I don’t know where, how or when, but keep on searching for someone. It wiil never be anothe Noreen. It will be just someone different … and THEY are out there.

      I know, for the most part, I am really talking to myself here.

      Take your pending retirement as it is now … and when you finally retire, deal with that as it progresses. (In spite of it all (the past) Feeling your feelings and expressing them, as you do brilliantly on this blog is the way through. “One day at a time” as they say in the 12 step programs.. Go for it Larry and I wish you the very best for now and for the future. I sure hope my comment did not in any way hurt you.


    • Phil says:

      It is terrible what life has done to you, all of us. I agree with your last paragraph. Maybe now you’ll have a lot of time to try new things, go in new directions, and make the most of it.

      • Larry says:

        The trouble is, Phil, anything new that I feel an interest or passion for is scary to try. That suggests that in retirement I will potentially have a lot more scary time on my hands, if I am to try to turn retirement into something meaningful. On the other hand if I just watch TV retirement should be a breeze. So when having to make a living that mattered to me forced me to have to confront issues, situations and fears that I wanted to run from, in retirement all I will have is self-discipline to force me to get out and confront life, but I am weak and want to hide.

  32. Phil says:

    In the morning I went to visit our newly smashed car. It was upsetting seeing it. My wife loved that car, it was hers, and the only new car she’s ever had. We went through a lot with that car and it was dependable. A woman worker at the body shop was there and asked me “are you OK”. People are so easily uncomfortable with feelings.
    I do become attached to objects. I’m not sure why as they can be replaced. Maybe I unconsciously imagine them having life like characteristics. I also think it is part of some general tendency to feel “stuck” with things; it’s not easy for me to move on. I’m still stuck with my past in ways I’d like not to be.
    After work I cried a lot. It has been a hard few weeks with everything that’s been going on, things not the way I like them. But it went deeper than that, to old stuff, like usual. More of my bottled up feelings. About needing my fathers help with my mother, with everything. He might have been able to help more, or I might have been able to go to him for help, by couldn’t. I couldn’t even say what I wanted to him. In the middle of some deep crying, I felt more like “me”. The part that’s all covered up by all the pain and defenses. That’s good and it’s what I want to happen.

    My wife can be very difficult. Every conversation we have we’re in disagreement lately. We can’t have any discussion of the type I wanted. I’m just going to have to wait which is what I originally thought. I made a few small comments over the holidays and she’s been upset ever since. I needed to say a whole lot more but will have to hold off, or not do it at all.
    My job is so boring I can hardly stand it. Now my boss has lengthened the day, by seeing more patients, making it worse. I have to look deeply at alternate job possibilities for something more tolerable.

    • Larry says:

      I’m sorry to see there are some big issues on your plate, Phil. You are a good guy and I hope you manage to work through them successfully, one by one.

  33. Otto Codingian says:

    not much to say. keeping sane via youtube. here is a spooky song with celtic tones and beautiful graphics. not sure if it moves me or not, or it probably moves me more than i can feel at the moment. not sure what it is about.

  34. Larry says:

    The tradition of mummery dates from Roman times. Apparently it is still practiced in rural parts of Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada. During the 12 days of Christmas people dress up in costume and visit their neighbours’ homes, where they are invited in and play musical instruments and sing and dance, and have a drink.

    Newfoundland was settled by the Irish. Loreena McKennitt grew up on a beef cattle farm near Morden, not far from Winnipeg, Manitoba. She has made a successful international career as a composer, singer and performer of celtic music.

    Thanks for the music video. Gorgeous graphics. Lush women.

  35. Miguel says:

    I have always disliked progressive people, who preached one thing and did the opposite. I expected more from them because I come from very religious and conservative backgrounds. They preach civil rights, but it is no more than a mask, to hide the truth. They want to hide the fact they want to have power over others and at the same time they pretend to be decent people. They have so many prejudices as anybody else . One of the ideologies of the dominant elites has been the toxic ideology of the politically correct. I’ve always been bothered by hypocrisy. Actually people who are bad people but who appear to be good. A society gives more importance to the appearance than to the essence. To appear, that is the hypocrisy of the politically correct. In Spain we say that lies have very short legs.

    It seems that the American society has tired of this hypocrisy and wants to solve other issues that perhaps have more importance as the low salaries that some people receive and the lack of economic and social stimuli.

    In Janovian language to meet the real needs of people is the keystone of primal theory. The American society will be going to a more real society and that some people before the hypocrisy of the politically correct and some are injured in their self-esteem.

    I wonder why the prophets of progressive and politically correct people find it so hard to leave office.

    Primal therapy is politically incorrect in this sense because it goes more to the essence of being right and not just looking like it in that sense it is politically correct.

    Jack so good you are recovering.

    Phill . the good side of it is that nobody happened to be injured.

    Sylvia. It is good you have an open mind. Me gustan los gatitos como a ti.


    • Phil says:

      I think there’s big differences between politics here and in Spain or the rest of Europe.
      Our left party is probably more like a center or even center right party for Spain. We still have big problems with racism and civil rights, but Spain has more of a homogeneous population, I believe. Our inner cities still have many problems and are not comparable to any I’ve seen in Spain. Near where I live and work is a little city of only 30,000 people with terrible problems: crime, drugs, gangs, and poverty
      Civil rights here have improved over many years here, since the 1950’s. Donald Trump seems to want to return us to the 1950’s. Only 8% of African Americans voted for him and 88% for Hillary Clinton. Which shows who they thought better on civil rights. Racists over many years have found a welcome home in the republican party.
      Trump will help speed up the process of the rich getting richer and the poor, poorer.
      The democrat party is at least a little better but still problematic since also they rely on wealthy doners and corporations to win elections too.
      Also he’s quite incompetent to be president. It’s a very sad day for America.
      Just check out Trump’s picks for his cabinet to see where his heart is. Many billionaires there., and unknowledgable incompetent people, who want to take away people’s healthcare, take away environmental regulations, and send less money to developing countries around the world. A sad day for the whole world.

  36. Margaret says:

    Phil, I entirely agree with you. just watched the inauguration and the speech, and well, it did not cheer me up.
    Patriottism, protectionism and a lot of hypocrisy and demagogy.

  37. Sylvia says:

    I also agree with you Margaret and Phil about our future. The inauguration today seemed somber and almost funeral-like. As it began to sprinkle and the new pres. said our military, police, and law will protect us, and mostly God will protect us I thought there might be a streak of lightning close by as a warning to trump. Oh well, guess miracles were only of biblical times.
    After encouraging words from Schumer and the pastors who spoke trump turned around and in his speech spit on all the efforts of past administrations for their failures to help the workers of America.
    From his past business dealings where he declared bankruptcy, left contractors and their employees unpaid, I think he has little regard for the little people. Not to mention the half-baked University he set up that students were taken in by.
    I fear Donald only wants to win and blame.

  38. Jack says:

    I had a terrifying dream last night.
    I was being attacked by what felt like four big girls and then later it was boys and girls breaking into my house (the house of my childhood). They were trying to kill me and were ransacking the house, and I was fighting them and trying to get them out and barring the door, but they broke it open and then at the end the father, or maybe an older brother, came in an took a wire and was trying to wrap it round my neck and strangle me. At that point I woke up.

    This had gone on for what seemed like an hour. The terror was unbelievable Apparently I screamed in my dream according to Jimbo. I went to my Jimbo crying telling him what a horror of a dream, but all he wanted to do was console me, stroking my head and holding me. I just knew I needed to scream all this horror out of me, and so I called my buddy. It was 10:00 pm he answered and I then just spent what felt like 10 to 15 minutes screaming. He very patiently just listened to me, then I started to cry for what was about 10 minutes, then just heavy breathing and eventually I was able to calm down.

    I had no problem screaming or worrying about neighbors hearing me. If they question me later today I will just tell them I was doing my “Primal Scream Therapy” That seems, in the past, to have explained it, whereas saying “Primal Therapy” would be meaningless to them.
    I did have some vague insights … I knew from Janov that the story in the dream is made up in the mind. but the feeling is very real.

    The vague insight was I sort of felt was I was struggling for 9 hours to get out of the womb. My mother told me later in life that she underwent 9 hours of labor at my birth. Some other ‘vague’ insight came about other kids always trying to pick a fight with me because I was thin and small for my age. I hated fighting and always tried to resist them, and also my father spanking us kids when we were being very rambunctious after being sent to bed before we were ready. My father seemed determined, as he told my brother in law later; that one needed to ‘break the spirit’ of children … he sure broke mine and I have spent years trying to get myself back form all that.

    I will not struggle to find a meaning to it all … I’ll just let it all happen and if it doesn’t … so-be-it.
    I am not sure what triggered this, but probably it could have been my response to Larry’s blog comment where I said I was probably taking more about myself than him.
    It’s all still there inside me and I have not doubt there is more where all this comes from.


    • Chris P says:

      Jack those are some very powerful feelings you had and it seems like you are already getting insights. If there is one thing I have learned from you is how to listen. Although I know I am nowhere near you in this department, I am trying to learn how to be a good buddy and to just listen. Again, you are teaching me how to do that.

      I hope this is not breaking your privacy, and if it is please Gretchen delete this comment, but I was more than happy to be there for you last night and feel free to call 24/7 day or night and I will be there. Did any of your neighbors complain? I like how you plan to tell that you were doing you are doing “Primal Scream Therapy”. That’s really what it is. I am glad I don’t have to worry about my neighbors here. I feel free to let it all out and not worry that anyone can hear me; my walls and windows are virtually sound proof. But I know that at my old apartment my neighbors must have heard me although none of them ever mentioned it.

      Unfortunately one major annoyance I do have is that the neighbors across the way have a window with no coverings and I can see right in to their apartment. I have tried asking them to put up blinds but they refuse. This pisses me off and I have resolved now to just shut mine. But this feels unfair as I thing privacy should be something that is 50/50. I realize there is a big feeling there for me and I am trying to let myself feel it, but it is very difficult.

      Phil–I always love reading your comments. They always sound so measured and thoughtful.

      Larry best of luck with your retirement. I can only imagine how difficult waters those might be for you and it is great that you are able to talk about them and say what you need to say.

      Margaret, it sounds like you have settled in well with your new cat brood and I hope they bring you many years of companionship and love. I still have Bisky. She is almost 20 now and still kicking strong. She seems to have a little cold and is sneezing a little. It is kind of cute but I hope it stops at some point.

      • Chris P says:

        please pardon the typos…I have got to reread and edit more carefully. I get careless because other social media allows for editing after posting.

      • Larry says:

        Honestly I didn’t notice any typos, Chris, probably because more than anything I was moved by what Jack and yourself were telling us. Both of you hang in there. Good that you are able to help each other.

      • Jack says:

        Chris: It was you that taught me how to listen; but those were nice words to read from you., and no you were not breaking my privacy. I actually have no problem wanting or desiring privacy except my past sex life in public, but some of that has been made public anyway through my past arrests.

        So far no neighbors have confronted me and since most of the day here it’s been raining I did not go outside anyway.

        Your feeling about your neighbor you got into last night in our buddy session, and I feel you dealt with most of it. Meantime, Chris we’ll keep on buddying. It’s another of those powerful tools in this therapy.


      • Phil says:

        Thanks for what you said about my comments.
        I try to write about what is really going on with me and that often isn’t easy.
        Deep feelings keep coming up whether I’m outwardly doing well or not.
        I’m often unsatisfied with what I’ve said, it’s too much, not enough, or doesn’t
        get people to understand. Kind of like the difficulty I have at groups, which
        I only get to attend at retreats.
        I have a discouraging feeling today. From here on in, there will be almost only
        bad news at the national level. I would like to attend a protest. I think it is important and a way of expressing my feelings rather than sitting around reading bad news.
        But we also have more immediate problems to deal with like shopping for another car.

    • Phil says:

      That sounds like a very intense dream you had and feelings right after waking up.
      I hope the rest of that will come out if it needs to.

  39. Margaret says:

    I just saw a long documentary with a lot of testimonies about trump and his background. military school guys saying he was scary for being empty emotionally , his dad telling his kids they had to be kings and killers etc.
    brrr M

  40. Margaret says:

    good to hear Bisky is doing well and getting to a very respectable age.
    one of mine just stole my spot on the couch when I got up to get me a cookie…
    I find it hard to disturb him when he lays so cosily curled up, a fluffy silky snoozing kitttycat.
    might move to the bed to read, more space there for the three of us, smiley.
    and Phil, your comments are invariably fine, please write as many of them as you feel like, and make them as long as you want!
    i wonder how Tom and David and Bernadette and all the other occasional bloggers are doing.
    it seems peaceful here right now, hope it will last for a good while..
    almost like spring in the air, fresh breeze, dust that has settled, haha, soon birdies tweeting, but that might be expecting too much.
    here some of them started to tweet this morning, don’t know if it is the sunshine we have today or if they were sending out warning signals as they spotted my cats…

  41. I don’t understand why people have so much trouble with sleeping and dreams. I just lay down and go into a completely dreamless sleep in a matter of seconds if I’m ready for it. Dreams and dream analysis were never really that important for me because sleep is just the brain’s way of cleaning out waste byproducts collected by our daily consciousness (via glial fluids) and organizing the more relevant information gathered throughout the day.

    Even though sleep objectively takes up 6-8 hours of my inestimably precious time, in all subjective practicality it only serves as a five-second refuge from all the crap I sort through during the day. (ie. For all intents and purposes, sleep is just a highly reliable five-second knockout for me.)

    • Sylvia says:

      Guru, are you sure you aren’t dreaming now zzzzz?

    • Patrick says:

      It might be an opportunity for Jack to show what a first rate primaller he is? And as far as ‘listening’ and not talking he seems to more than make up for that here at least with me with all the ‘quoting back’ and ‘judging’ and ‘critiquing’ kind of the exact opposite of ‘listening’ But often religious fanatics have a whole other side to them conveniently called ‘hypocrisy’. Great church goes in real life not so much………….

  42. Otto Codingian says:

    I was too tired after working 6 days to go use a room at the pi. so i stay home and have no desire, as usual, to clean house or pay bills or wash my clothes. so all i do is sit at the computer, looking for something interesting. this article about a lady going to the women’s protest in washington makes me sad, i guess because it details some of the pain she has gone through in her adulthood. obviously, i relate. her picture, itself, looks sad. “She’s 54, white, rural and a lifelong Republican. Why is she protesting Donald Trump?” wished i am could have gone to a room to focus and feel something. i really have no push to do so at home. but this makes me so fucking sad.

    • Larry says:

      Your post makes me sad, Otto. I could so easily slide into hopelessness. Going to work full time kept me distracted from a lot of problems, mine and others’. In my retirement transition phase, as of December I’ve been working only 3 days a week. With a lot more free time on my hands I feel more susceptible to seeing life problems, mine and others’. I feel more sensitive to how badly life has gone for many people, how I was frightfully lost in my youth and how it could happen to me again. One evening a couple of weeks ago on my way to a dance class which is held in the poorer, rougher part of town, I parked my car in a side street nearby. A young woman approached and reached to open the passenger door. Startled I quickly waved her away and shook my head to indicate no, I didn’t want her services. Afterward I kept thinking about the miserable, probably pimp ruled and drug addicted track of her life and how I’ve been lucky and privileged to be able to try to guide my life to a more fulfilling path. It wouldn’t take much to go wrong and I would feel overwhelmed, like the woman in that video, like the prostitute who approached my car.

      Too often I sit at home in front of my computer, surfing, killing time, trying to take my mind off of life. During the Christmas holiday I was introduced to the television series Game of Thrones. There are 6 or 7 seasons of ten 60 minute episodes each for me to catch up on. Lately I’ll often watch for 2 or even 3 hours at a time, escaping into gripping historical fiction/fantasy. I feel addicted to it. I suppose a good thing is that events in recent episodes released major feelings for me and kind of shook me briefly from my addiction stupor.

      Yesterday morning and afternoon I attended a ballroom dance workshop. I enjoyed the learning, but In between lessons I felt so alone. I had no one I felt connected to or wanted to converse with, whereas all the others had friends and partners who they were in conversation and laughing with. So last night (Saturday night) I easily turned to Game of Thrones again, alone all evening, rather than go the dance last night as I had intended to.

      I feel afraid of the responsibility I will have for my life when I am fully retired and free to do whatever I want, cast off from the work community and activity that I’ve known for 32 years, unmoored from the structure and reassurance it gave me. God my life is empty. It seems like I forever have to push myself into social situations to be with people or to do activities that I think would interest me; almost always I have to fight the feeling that I don’t belong. I’m afraid that in retirement, alone and without the positive reinforcement my work environment provides, I will succumb and stay alone.

      I look forward to being back at work on Monday, sitting in front of the computer, working on some data analysis, applying technical and personal strengths and talents for which I am valued, socializing in safe routine coffee and lunch breaks, where I belong, where I don’t have time or inclination to see and feel everything that’s wrong in life.

  43. Otto Codingian says:

    maybe it’s the part about addiction. mine, z’s, the kids’ addictions. just a really fucking killer, it was. so rough, so very hard.

  44. Otto Codingian says:

    wahhhh sob great, but i need to scream about it and i cant do it at home.

  45. Margaret says:

    I don’t have problems at all with dreaming, on the contrary.
    I always feel sorry for people who do not remember their dreams, for me they are a precious part of my life, even the nightmares as they are useful in giving me access to feelings that are difficult to get to while awake.
    and many dreams feel simply as a great gift my brain comes up with, they are fun or exciting or very beautiful.
    and hm, I meet some interesting people there as well, smiley, my mind seems to be pretty creative not only in coming up with evil but also with attractive characters..
    so hurray for the dreams in my case, and actually I have not heard anyone here complaining about dreaming really.

    • Well this is a more controversial consideration for me, Margaret. Perhaps the question should be, “How much attention should we give towards our sleep-related activities?” Your implication is such that I should not be satisfied with just having sleep being a five-second refuge from life’s detritus and forget about it the next morning.

      I just look at sleep as a very basic human need with the only possible complication being that I could sleep in an awkward position once in a while and wake up groggy from reduced oxygen flow. Barking dogs can also jostle my sleep to where I wake up in a less than optimal state.

      We can all agree that urination is a basic human need just like sleep, right? Should we just pee and forget it? Or should we willfully turn urination into something more complicated (assuming no health issues)?

      • Jack says:

        Guru: What kind of crap are you talking now. It sounds so ‘defensive’ AND what has urinating got to do with dreams OR sleeping. Sylvia said it best IMO If you think you do not dream then you are dreaming as you write that stuff. Margaret was trying to convey the same message to you.

        It is my guess … BUT ONLY MY guess, that you were subliminally taking a swipe at me and my dream. I don’t care if that is what you are trying, subliminally or otherwise to do. BUT don’t hide behind a pseudo piece of wisdom (hence the GURU pseudonym) in order to DEFEND yourself. That’s NOT Primal Therapy, Theory OR anything else. It’s a well, studied fact that we all dream during all sleep … some are connected to their dreams and some are not.


        • It sounds as though you’re being the defensive one here, Jack. I’d challenge anyone to re-read my original post saying “I don’t understand why people have so much trouble with sleeping and dreams”.

          How did you interpret this as taking a swipe at you? The very fact that you directly told me that I am talking “crap” is more as though you’re taking a swipe at ME, instead.

          I would carefully review your own statements for signs of projecting what you yourself are doing unto others.

          ~THE Ultimate Superstar Guru

          PS. I have discussed sleeping problems on a couple of occasions a long time ago on the blog.

        • Patrick says:

          I would say we are all ‘connected’ to our dreams whether we like it or not. The idea that there are some “Chosen Ones” who have some special sauce that they are ‘connected’ while the great majority of ‘unfeeling people’ are not ‘connected’………………to me is sort of cult like or religious thinking. I

          • Jack says:

            Of course you would!!!! …. what else have you going for yourself other than your ‘bitter’ feelings you dispense with here????.


  46. Margaret says:

    just heard Trump complain about how the media all lied about the number of people attending the inauguration.
    the way he sounded, his voice, it was striking, almost incredible for a man who actually is president now, like a little boy acting out and lying to the point of believing his own lies…
    he is really a phenomenon, but not in a reassuring way..

  47. Margaret says:

    first I never said you should feel in any way about your own sleep , whatever you feel or don’t feel is fine with me.
    second I don’t talk about any willful opinion about dreaming, it just feels good.
    and third, comparing it with urinating is not a good comparison at all, imo.
    there might only be a physical parallel if you want about dealing with daily waste and other products and keeping the body healthy.
    sleeping and dreaming might do something similar, apart of other things, but then there is also the mental side-effect if you want of pleasant nightly adventrues of all kinds.
    or less pleasant ones but often exciting anyway.
    I am not into these dream analysis books etc., but well, often my dreams simply make a lot of sense to me without too much interpreting and guessing.
    so what is wrong with enjoying the process and occasionally talking about it?
    it seems more entertaining than one talking about how good it felt to urinate..
    a tiny bit more interesting to say the least.
    you don’t need to agree, but it is you who brought it up and seems to have some kind of problem about it, or maybe you are just passing time, or want some attention?
    all ok.
    but you might have a lot of dreams actually and simply forget about them by the time you wake up.
    no dreaming at all would make you go nuts very soon, that has been shown in some unpleasant experiments.

    • Margaret: OK well, all you said here is fine with me. You mentioned dream analysis books and I remember buying a copy of Gayle Delaney’s “Living Your Dreams” book (around 1994-1995 or so) the same time I read Stanislav Grof’s and Janov’s books. For some reason all those books seem like annoying past relics to me anymore.

      I equated sleeping and urinating from a daily basic human needs standpoint. I do think sleeping is a waste disposal function for the brain, though. Sleep is unique from the standpoint that subjective experience and objective occurrences are divorced from each other unlike urination or eating or drinking, etc. etc.

  48. Margaret says:

    have just tried out a new free ap on my Iphone.
    Taptapsi , you take a picture or choose one you already took, and it takes a few seconds and then describes fairly accurately what there is to be seen…
    today it occurred to me to try it out on some xmas gifts that still laid around.
    a gift box with two containers, of which I hoped one would be body lotion.
    so I took one container out and put it in front of me, activated the ap and took a picture. and yes, after about 5 seconds it said ‘Victorian style container with yellow rose scent body lotion’.
    isn’t that amazing?
    now in this case it read some of the text on the container, but I am not sure the Vitorian part is also text r or not.
    somebody demonstrated the ap by taking a picture of me, and his phone said woman in purple knitted sweater sitting on chair in white kitchen next to brown wooden table.
    it normally does not save the pictures I htink, unless you want to keep them.
    it is such an amazing tool, can be used to look at texts as well, not to study large ones but to know what it is about in a fast way.
    or as a blind person to get a quick idea of what there is around, if possible, as you can’t start taking pictures of strangers etc.
    and you need to be connected to wifi to get the connection with the proper software.
    I was very pleased with this trivial little victory today, with my free ap!!
    and now I smell of yellow roses in a Victorian kind of style, smiley.
    this is a bit like science fiction turning into reality…

    i remember the first time I saw a television as a young child, in the house of a friend of my parents. just the black and white ‘snow’, as there was no program or test screen at that time of the day, was already fascinating, haha!
    it was not until I was a teenager we had our own old black and white television.
    but I also remember before that we had pleasant evenings just playing, my brother and me or sometimes board games with the family or card games.
    now tv takes up too much space imo with its load of crap on most channels.
    but well, probably getting old…

  49. Margaret says:

    That sounds like an amazing and useful app. I could envision continual improvements on that to where it would be extremely helpful to you for everyday life.
    Reminds me a little of the car we ended up picking out yesterday. I is a Subaru equipped with cameras and sensors and the car will initiate automatic braking and throttle control. In other words it has some driver less features which will hopefully help prevent accidents.


  50. Phil says:

    Sorry, that last message was from me and not Margaret. here it is again below:
    That sounds like an amazing and useful app. I could envision continual improvements on that to where it would be extremely helpful to you for everyday life.
    Reminds me a little of the car we ended up picking out yesterday. I is a Subaru equipped with cameras and sensors and the car will initiate automatic braking and throttle control. In other words it has some driver less features which will hopefully help prevent accidents.

  51. Sylvia says:

    Margaret, sounds like you have a very useful app there.
    Trump will be a series of new shenanigans we can all watch for. I heard that in is press conferences he plans to invite the ‘alternate press’, whatever that is. He doesn’t like to be questioned on his actions so I can see how he’d want to have those in the press audience who might boost his confidence knowing they were for him asking soft questions. He doesn’t have to call on reporters he doesn’t like.

    I think dreams are a state where the defenses are lowered. I’ve had some of my biggest feelings during sleep, one which I was being crushed to death and couldn’t breathe. It woke me up and I still couldn’t catch my breath for several seconds.
    I’ve known a couple of very sensitive and together people who say they do not dream. I recall Janov saying something about that in his books that we should just have restful sleep when our feelings have been dealt with. Wonder what the Institute’s take on this would be–do top therapists still dream?
    Maybe Guru you are experiencing a particular phenomenon; like people who biologically only require 4 or 5 hours sleep and chuckle at the rest of us who require more. I can see why it would be a puzzle to you that we make a big deal of it.
    Also some people who have strokes don’t dream and I know my mom stopped dreaming with her dementia.


    • Well now you’re starting to scare me, Sylvia. I am sorry about what happened to your mother with her dementia as it must have been painfully frightening and life-draining to watch over time; I hope I haven’t had a stroke or dementia yet which may be the reason I am not recalling dreams.

      I need more like 6-8 hours of sleep which is occasionally divided into a couple of naps.

      I’m not chuckling at anyone here. I am just remarking that I don’t understand how dreams are as important as they have been made out to be. Maybe I’m wrong?

      • It’s worth pointing out that Janov’s early books said dream analysis was useless.

        • Sylvia says:

          Guru, I don’t think you need to worry. In a study I was reading it said some people do not recall their dreams and others, (healthy people) do not appear to dream. So it is probably a natural thing that you do not appear to dream.

          I think when Janov said dream analysis was useless he was referring to the interpretation of the therapist for the patient and that there is no universal dream catalogue. What a drowning dream may mean for one person may mean something else to someone else. It’s your own feeling in the dream that matters.

        • Jack says:

          Guru: quote:- “It’s worth pointing out that Janov’s early books said dream analysis was useless.”
          That is correct. they were and are, BUT Janov then went on to define what dreams were. Words to the effect:- The feelings in dreams are correct and belongs to the dreamer … the story wrapped around the dream is contrived to make some semblance of sense to the dreamer.

          In my case the dream was unutterable fear … my feeling … the story of some kids ransacking my house (child-hood house) and trying to kill me, was contrived to give some semblence of WHY I was in terror.

          Seemingly, this was the part of my comment that you chose to ignore and from MY perspective was a means to ‘jibe’ me for making that comment about my dream. This is the absolute place to talk about feeling/s …. something you seemingly avoid, as I read you, and continue to do so.


          • Patrick says:

            “Un-utterable” means something that cannot be spoken about…………..yet you go on (talking) and on all the time using that word. Methinks you are ‘in your head’ to use your own ‘unutterable’ jargon…………….

            • Jack says:

              Correct: Writing here denotes that one is in ones head. You’ve gotta be in your head to write … by definition. I also agree that “unutterable” means one cannot ‘describe’ it, BUT that is not to say that one cannot discuss it.

              For the most part one experiencing fear/terror is totally unable describe it, other than by analogy.

              Since You never go there, and invaibly question it with “What’s the point”, signifies to me that you have no desire to get into feelings.

              Other than acting out your own agenda I see little reason for you to be on this blog. At best, you a bitterly making it a blame game, or concocting some conspiracy about some pet theory of yours.


              • Patrick says:

                If you had stopped half way you would be doing ok ……………..but NO you have to take a crack at me you HAVE to it seems so by your own jargon you FAIL to keep it about yourself you HAVE to ‘act out’ by speculating and ‘projecting’ on me. How’s that for jargon I can do jargon too after all I have listened to it from you for long enough I can mimic someone’s else’s ‘thinking’……………..but it seems you are incapable of not doing an ‘ad hominem’ attack or in your case an ‘ad homo’ attack. Maybe you should try some cruising should be more fun than ‘acting out’ on me. Though it might get you kicked out of the country.

                • Jack says:

                  If you had stopped before you even started … on the blog that is … You BLUSTERED in on it, and seemingly haven’t stopped since. Patrick!!!! … do you actually reflect on what you are doing … and reflect on how you come across here???????


                  • Patrick says:

                    My main concern is not how I ‘come across’. It is more important to express how I feel about things though I understand how you ‘come across’ is very upmost on your mind. Wasnt that why I called you “PR man”

                    • Jack says:

                      Patrick: You are the most unpopular guy on the blog and seemingly I am a close second, in unpopularity.

                      Is it always important to say what in on your mind? I can think of quite a number that are way inappropriate. Instead of saying what is on your mind how about saying how you feel … sad, angry afraid, surprised etc and leave with just that one word feeling … leaving out anything else. Try it … you could get a very big surprise.


  52. Daniel says:

    Not only might it help prevent accidents, but can you imagine what a self-driving automobile can do to the lives of some disabled people? Our very own Margaret, for example, could be driving places.

  53. Otto Codingian says:

    i heard something on tv or radio today. that mr. trump didn’t need to worry about the few jobs he has been able to keep in the u.s. it was that what is going to be done about the jobs lost, in the near future perhaps, to the many plans for putting robots in place of humans at mcdonalds, or driving cabs, etc.

    • Otto: This is exactly why I suspect a Universal Basic Income will eventually become a necessity at least at a very low level. Heck, we’re probably at that point already, but it’s going to be extremely difficult for many people to begin acknowledging the possibility.

  54. Otto Codingian says:

    but i don’t think there will be a robot primal therapist….

  55. Otto Codingian says:

    Larry, i can relate to your experience at the dancing workshop, as i am unable to join in to conversation easily with new (or any) people. I think that is what you are saying. Or whatever it is that you are saying, do you know what is the specific pain that is keeping you from joining in the others’ conversations? or of seeking out some lady who might want to go with you to the workshop? i hate all that primal wisdom that says that you just need to do the dreaded act (join into a conversation, stop overeating etc) to bring up the feeling. jeez i would give my left testicle to be an outgoing, talkative, unafraid person. i am saving my right one because it is of a more normal size. I hope this information is useful. by the way, if you are retiring and have a good pension, why not move here before mr. trump decides to build a wall around Canada.

    • Larry says:

      Well Otto, first of all, I think no one is going to want my left or my right testicle, so I don’t see mine being much bargaining leverage. I think the wise are right though that doing the dreaded act brings up the feeling. Seems like that is the only way ahead for me. I think my pain underneath it all is that no one listened, more than once I was suddenly abandoned, no one saw the hurt in me or tried to understand and so I have a deep pervasive feeling that I don’t matter and I don’t belong. I tackled it primally by doing the acts that bring up the feeling. In LA I worked at a sandwich route, where I had to speak to customers though I was afraid to. I let myself fall in love, though I was afraid to. I joined a Toastmasters Club and made myself stand up and speak in front of people, though I was afraid to. I took on leadership roles in the Club, though afraid to. And so on decade after decade. All of those things I did that I was afraid of did bring up feelings alright. Feeling them enabled me to keep on, and become more confident and less fearful. It’s not an overnight process. It’s a constant facing the fear, chipping away at the feelings, getting a little more confident through life experience, and slowly primalling deeper and deeper to the source of the feelings.

      It helps a lot if you have support to help face the fear, like I had in the primal community, like I had from my wife, and like I get from this blog, from retreats and sessions, and from friends. It helps too when I’m rewarded with success, when I notice life is becoming easier, deeper, richer over time. But I’m not where I want to be yet. What I write on the blog is the despair I feel when I arrive at another hurdle I need to overcome. When I’m not writing on the blog it’s often because I’m pretty busy living and enjoying my life.

      I’ll have a decent pension, but it would be more meagre in the US because the exchange rate on the dollar isn’t favourable. Besides which, I seem to want to live out my life here, in this climate, this landscape, this small size city. My fears will still be there to tackle no matter where I live.

      As for the wall, I think some Canadians are already building it. 🙂

      • Phil says:

        My problem has been, I’ve worked hard and faced my fears to get what I wanted. Or what I thought I wanted. And that was necessary and helped with feelings.
        But then it turned out it wasn’t good enough, I still wasn’t happy.
        I had relationships and then a wife, a job, a career, a family, and nice places to live. All helpful and I needed to do all that, but still not quite happy, satisfied, or really OK. I struggled and made what changes I could, and have it still not be enough. I guess it’s because the problem is inside me and not anywhere else. Which at times has me feeling sometimes that it’s useless to keep trying. All I can do is keep what I already have. In the past when I made changes, like jobs, living arrangements etc., some of those were big mistakes.

  56. Margaret says:

    well, I said i have never been into dream analysis books etc., but why were you back then if you never dream?

    • Margaret: That was 22 or 23 years ago when the dinosaurs still roamed the Earth. I was desperately trying to find the perfect answers I needed during a time when the Internet was just starting to reach a broader society. I scoured and bought lots of books wondering, “What is wrong with me?” It was only many years later I finally realized there was not as much wrong with me as I had originally thought and there were some things I wasn’t able to remotely understand back then. I am on much firmer ground in that regard today.

      I even took supplements at the time to help make my dreams more vivid. Wearing nicotine patches while you sleep seems to work for this, but I used other means.

  57. Margaret says:

    yes, smiley, it occurred to me too at some point I might become able to just take my automatic vehicle to get somewhere, as they already are able to park themselves up to some point.
    in combination with other electronical devices to find the way or to simply contact someone it would open a world of possibilities. imagine me visiting a friend I have living up in the Pyrenee mountains in France somewhere, just trusting on the car to find its way to restaurants or hotels on the way up, and then it might become hard on the small roads but well, if vehicles can navigate on Mars and on the moon by themselves, not all would become possible but still something more for sure…
    or maybe I should start to play on the lottery so I could have my very own personal assistants and chauffeurs…
    but then again, they also form a hazard, they should be very trustworthy and minimally pleasant to get along with, and available seems a lot of job requirements ..
    a nice boyfriend could be a good option, and otherwise I will just have to keep rowing with what I have available right now, smiley.
    luckily our Belgian social security is pretty good up to now, and our taxi services are much better than those in the U.S.. no taxi driver here would object to assisting someone to the entrance or to come up to the front door to pick you up.
    makes a world of difference.

    and hurray, my sailing holiday has been confirmed!
    last week of august, let’s hope it will be fine sailing weather, synny with a good breeze!!
    more Trump news right now, gonna listen to more ego-tripping..

  58. Margaret says:

    Reading a book with a story about a horse that was still half wild, and got very frightened by someone being rude to it, broke out and got all tangled up in barbed wire.
    that same man wanted to shoot it down, but some other persons managed to get his gun and start the efforts to untangle and remove the barbed wire and to take care of the horse
    a little boy , son of the rude man, was in tears and enraged at his father but then got reassured by the man who tok good care of the horse and who promised the horse would be his later on.
    tears suddenly broke out of my eyes, when it occurred to me there was a common factor here for me, joining why cats and horses mean so much to me and why I am very good at reassuring them when they are upset.
    it is the fear, the being terrified and not understanding why they are threatened and in pain, I resonate with it strongly and always want to take their fear away.
    I worked in stables and was very good at reassuring scared horses, and same goes for cats..
    it is my own fear and feeling of being lost and on my own I want to heal, no creature should feel that way…
    is it the little 2 year old me that had to stay in a nursery for several weeks, is it other moments condensed, it does not really matter, no need for exact memories as long as the feeling finds its way, and it seems to become clearer every time.
    this is the value of this therapy for me, that it enables us to open up and connect even just by reading a book, in a natural kind of way.
    Thanks Barry and Gretchen, M

  59. Margaret says:

    cried some more reading rest of story.
    it is also the acknowledgment and acceptance of the fear, and the caring , attention and respect to deal with it in a gentle way that now made me cry.
    people spending the night with that horse, not so much to heal its physical wounds, but to help it rebuild its selfconfidence and will to live.
    in the story an aboriginal sang for the horse as well, and regardless of its factual truthfullness or not, it also made me cry.
    sensitivity, intuition, caring, kindnesss, all of it there somehow.
    how does one heal of fear?
    how can one help one heal of fear?
    too much pain and fear in this world, too little attention for it, too much attention for power and monetary gain.
    but well, that is another issue.
    I always cared about the hurt little birdies, mice, even insects and the suffering I could try to help relieving.

  60. Patrick says:

    There is a lot of talk about Trump being somehow ‘controlled’ by Russia……….to get a better clue as to whom he might REALLY be controlled by notice the FIRST foreign leader he spoke to ……………..wait for it…………….no suspense really is Bibi Netanyahu. Says a lot not that will ever be mentioned anywhere why?…………that would be ‘anti semitic’ of course but it is a fact but well lets leave it at that.Trump like ALL Presidents of the US are ‘controlled’ by Zionists top to bottom. Zionists have a stranglehold on this country in every way including in the ‘ideas’ realm. So forget about Russia your gaze is being mis-directed as usual. This is something you will never hear not at the ‘women’s march’ either that seems to some other kind of Zionist pseudo ‘color revolution’. maybe this is the ‘pink revolution’ for what? who knows? who cares? something to do with LGBTQ or something the right to something or other to right to kill babies in the womb or be gay something like that all very woolly though. But all of it against ‘nature’ (like circumcision)

    Netanyahu said yesterday he was willing to give the Palestinians a “state minus” ………….that’s a good one minus what I wonder maybe minus water, minus food, minus any security that kind of ‘state’. What an ahole! But he is the FIRST and will be the LAST to talk to Trump so if people want to be outraged they might focus on that and put away all the LBBTQ nonsense and the ‘right’ to kill babies in the womb or whatever it is they want.

    A final thought when Netanyahu mentions a “state minus” is that because and I realize this is a big stretch and goes back a long way he is ‘minus’ his foreskin so he is going to ‘minus’ lots and lots of people ever afterwards. Minus an indigenous and peaceful people and call them ‘terrorists’ minus all their history and security and put his own hateful kind in charge. Maybe the big story of the Jews as little boys their foreskins are lopped off and ever after they are like devils to deal with. Make a lot of sense to me.They are ‘missing’ a key part of themselves and are determined to make YOU pay for it.

    • Phil says:

      For some reason you’re obsessed with Israel and the Jewish question. I think in Israel they just want to survive and the US helps them do that. Even if it seems Israel goes about it the wrong way, that’s what they are trying to do. Imagine living there with those security concerns.
      Russia is a different story. Putin would like to regain empire. Russia has been expansionist for hundreds of years. It’s part of their history and mentality. The US has been expansionist too, of course. Conflict seems to be the natural state of affairs unfortunately.

    • Jack says:

      Patrick: It might be interesting if you would be more specific about your seeming hate of Jews, Judasim and/or Israel.

      First off: I know there are many Jews both in and outside of Israel that are ‘not fond’ of Netanyahu, least of all agree with his polictical views. He is after all a right wing very coservative politician.
      Are you sypathies with the Palastinan a direct feeling for them independantly of the occupation by Israel OR is is that you are just anit Judasim per se? When one merely uses the mind and neglects the feeling behind the thinking, a whole half part of the brain is ignored. To go on and on and on and on about all this without any retospective reasoning going on in that feeling part of your brain makes little sense to anyone here on this blog and Eventually, I contend will begin to make little sense to yourself … hence demetia.

      I contend if you were to do just that and reflect … yes! on this blog … just what is taking place deeper in you mind that would garner some real sympathy for yourself. Otherwise it become all spin and endless arguement … going no-where.

      Just MY suggestion … that is all.

      On another tack you brought up … “killing babies in the womb” What is ignored by all anti-abortionist is that an unwanted fetus brought to term, creates a baby; later a fully grown person that invariably commits muder, terrorises other people and/or even a paranoid, schizophrenic or even a suicidal; whose life is hardly woth living.
      It is a far more complex situation for both mother and fetus (and most of this is dependent at what stage of development in the nine month period of a pregnancy), than is rarely discussed. In the first few days or first month of pregnancy it is hardly a thinking creature. Just a bundle of cells in process of becoming an eventual human.


      • Phil says:

        This is a very good suggestion for Patrick, if he is interested. There must be associated feelings with all this stuff. How does it feel that somebody is trying poison with chemtrails and vaccines. Also, I wonder, how would you (Patrick) like the world to be? How would it be different without the influence of the Jews? I’m assuming that you feel the world would be somehow different. If all these bad conspiracies were resolved, how would your life be better? If none of it has anything to do with you, why so caught up in it all?
        Some of these same questions I could ask myself in regards to Trump, and have tried to answer some days ago. I do seem to have settled in with the reality of that so that it doesn’t take too much of my attention.

  61. Patrick says:

    Like in the Soviet Union which in essence was just a Jewish takeover of that country we are in the ear of ‘controlled opposition’ BOTH sides are ‘controlled’ Trump by his Jewish/Zionist ‘handlers’ and the so called ‘women’s march’ it’s even hard to know where to start. I think of like one of those bogus ‘color revolutions’ like an ‘orange’ one in Ukraine ‘rose’ in Lebanon I think lots and lots of others. A way to undermine an legitimatize the government after all we just had an election. The point seems to be to actually give people NO choice while there is plenty of illusion of LOTS of choice. There isn’t really the Zionists are firmly in charge and that DOES include Trump.

    • Phil says:

      That’s just wrong. The Russian revolution was not a Jewish takeover of any sort. But with all this in mind, with what you believe and say, the Jews are so very powerful and unstoppable, so why not join them? Then you could stop worrying about all this.

      • Patrick says:

        Phil – this might be more than you have time for but it puts paid to the notion that Jews were not a major factor in the Bolshevik Revolution

        • Phil says:

          I took a look at it, but didn’t read it thoroughly. I have a history of the Russian revolution at home that refutes that idea, and here is an article from wikipedia for what it is worth:

          I think the main point to remember and realize is that Boshevism was an ideological movement, not religious or nationalistic.

          Lenin, the main leader, may have had some distant Jewish background but he was not raised in the religion, he identified as Russian.

          What I understand and have seen from other sources is that there were Jewish members of the Bolshevic movement maybe out of proportion to their numbers in the population, probably because they were persecuted. But the numbers don’t correlate at all with your source. It all depends what you want to believe or trust.


    • Patrick says:

      There are good suggestion by both Jack and Phil……….the thing is I DO ‘reflect’ or ‘meditate’ whatever word you want to use about what it means to/for me.And I am glad for ‘primal therapy’ in the sense I can do that. Some of these ‘activist’ type people I wonder how they can keep going without the kind of place in their heads where they can sort of relate it back to something in themselves. This may seem like a cop out but honestly day to day I don’t FEEL like relating it back to myself here on the blog I mean. It’s feels ‘private’ and mostly not of much interest to anyone else plus it would tend to ‘undermine’ my feeling or reality whatever word you want to use. So for example I could say the Palestinians being starved and worse rings bells with me personally and also with Irish history and it does but well I don’t feel like going there here I mean it would just tend to undermine what I am trying to say

      Also I feel I am ‘learning’ and this is far from complete but I do feel I gradually put things together but I dunno any one stage is always provisional and is likely to change somewhat later. Also as far as the “Jewish question” I feel pretty alone with that here at least like I just read Gerard Menuhin’s book and it’s a long and deep meditation on it. So for now at least I am not at the stage of ‘sharing’ what all this might mean it to me is mostly a ‘private’ issue and something I have to deal with myself and in my own way. This thing about ‘private’ versus ‘public’ is something that is an issue for me a lot like say this recent discussion on dreams………………….dreams to me above all are private I do feel they tell me a lot sometimes when I wake up it’s like I am deeper than I can be or go normally I think they are a great opening to deeper realities. But again not something I feel like ‘sharing’ so much I might with a close friend but ok maybe since I am here I might have a bit more trust and start to talk about them. Anyway thanks and I think they are reasonable suggestions.

  62. Margaret says:

    I was surprised about what you said about your mother, that they said she did not dream anymore.
    how did they know?did they test it or have they discovered it often is the case in later stages of dementia?
    I was surprised a little while ago about my own mom, who instantly forgets 99 percent of what goes on, despite still being quite able to have a conversation.
    but that day when we visited her in the afternoon, she came up with a dream she had had that night about being in her former house, with some details about what occurred in the dream.
    isn’t that amazing, that of all things a dream is what she could remember?

  63. Phil says:

    I don’t think it can be proven that anyone doesn’t dream. Only that they don’t recall dreams.
    What can be measured, I think, is that REM sleep is happening and that’s when the most vivid dreams are supposed to occur. But it seems they happen at other times during sleep too.
    Most of the dreams I recall seem to be ones when I wasn’t sleeping deeply. Like I woke up and then went back to sleep lightly, when I should have gotten up. I sometimes recall a dream and prefer to try to go back to sleep and back into it; sometimes with some success. These might be more like daydreams rather than dreams.
    I’m not very good at recalling dreams, it only rarely happens.

  64. Sylvia says:

    Hi Margaret, my mom always would tell me her dreams when she was well and she gradually stopped talking about them. I’ve read where Alzheimer’s can damage the dreaming part of the brain. She also had many mini-strokes and that may have contributed. She may have had less REM sleep too, as she had a hard time sleeping through the night. I think also that dementia patients can differ. At the nursing home a nurse explained to me how the main problem was usually a lack of consistent memory and confusion. But others have more than cognitive problems like my mom who had a lot of suspicion and even aggression. She was quite volatile to begin with, a dramatic personality with too many hurts growing up.

  65. Margaret says:

    that sounds like possibly painful as well for her as for the family. my own mother gets suspicious on occasions, but luckily in a mild way and she still tries to correct herself when we point it out to her.
    I imagine confusion can also be hard to deal with, specially if it provokes fear or frustration.
    most of my mom’s initial rebellious anger has dissipated as she likes being there more and likes some members of the staff a lot, specially a young male nurse, her favorite, smiley, but he is kind and playful so very likeable really.
    the times she reacts in a defensive/hostile way it is out of uncertainty, if she fears a group of people might reject her she dismisses them in advance, but as I say, basically as she fears not being welcome.
    they seem to be trying more these days to make her participate and feel part of things, which is very good.
    I bought a box of chocolates today to bring to her tomorrow so she can treat the other residents of her floor, and maybe we can sit around with them for a while in the common part where they usually gather in the afternoon and where she does not feel welcome.
    she whispers to us ‘it is the elite there’ when we walk by, on our way to the cafetaria, or even ‘shit and company’ on our way back, haha, not acceptable and a shame but still, in some way funny and not unusual as others occcasionally show the same kind of unrestrained behaviour which might have caused the problem with her to start with.
    but no big deal, she is thriving really.

  66. Daniel says:

    I didn’t get to see any of the women’s marches, but here are some signs from one march. Unfortunately, none of them solves “the Jewish question” but some are pretty creative:

    — We Shall Overcomb.
    — I Have a Vagenda
    — Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Czar/ Putin Made You ==
    — I Wish My Uterus Shot Bullets So the Government Wouldn’t Regulate It
    — Resistance is Fertile
    — There Will Be Hell Toupée
    — I (heart) Journalists.
    — Viva la Vulva
    — There Is So Much Wrong It Cannot Fit on This Sign
    — Melania, Blink Twice if You Need Help
    — Super Callous Fragile Ego, Trump You Are Atrocious
    — Orange Is the New Fascism
    — Vaginas Brought You Into the World. Vaginas Will Vote You Out.
    — No Country for Dirty Old Men
    — Too Worried to be Funny
    — Donald You Ignorant Slut
    — Impeach Trump, Convert Pence
    — Sorry World, We’ll Fix This

  67. Patrick says:

    One thing I think is worth mentioning is Trump’s first big ‘action’ was withdrawing from the TTP that’s the big trade deal which was going to allow corporations to sue governments etc etc…………..anyway what occurs to me is this to withdraw I mean was a HUGE ’cause’ for the “Left” here. Ralph Nader, Chris Hedges, Ami Goodman, Naomi Klein etc etc etc ALL of them cried and complained and wanted this. One problem ‘their man’ Obama was all for joining and it seemed to be almost the only thing he ‘believed’ in. So and I am not saying Trump is ‘good’ but I think it is proper to mention this and all the ‘leftists’ seem to give him no credit. At one stroke he has done what they have wanted for years now but could not because ‘their man’ would not do it.

    It points up to me we are living in perilous times nothing would surprise me but overall I am happier with Trump than I would be with Hillary. He is probing into vaccines (about time for that) and who knows maybe he will even cancel ‘chemtrails’ I will also be watching for these ‘fake terror events’ it is very interesting to me if these do or do not continue. So overall at least there is some doubt/hope about things with Hillary to me there was no hope at all…………….it would be business as usual with trade deals, fake terror events, vaccines are good for you and we don’t discuss ‘chemtrails’ officially they are not happening. At least now there is something to be curious about and I have a wait and see attitude.

    • Phil says:

      I read today that there was no expectation that TTP would have passed in congress. So Trump’s action was just symbolic. He didn’t really achieve anything with that.

      • Patrick says:

        I really don’t know about that Phil but I would question what you say. Obama and I heard him several times really pushing it if it had ‘no chance’ I doubt he would have been doing that. You could be right in the sense that it has ‘no chance’ NOW after Trumps win and the overall congress changes away from Democrats. Also Trump campaigned on not joining at now at least he has done ONE thing he ‘promised’ IMO this TTP was a really nasty piece of work and I would give Trump big credit for burying it. I don’t expect him to get any from the ‘usual suspects’ in the major media I mean but that is what makes them ‘fake news’ I’m sorry but they ARE! To me also Obama was a total shill for big business etc all the while being a so called ‘leftist’ not to mention doubling the deficit. People are sick and tired of these kind of games and Trump’s popularity is no mystery to me at all. I think he is a very flawed messenger and IS Zionist controlled……………….but still better than shills like Obama and Hillary.That’s why I consider this current ‘color revolution’ the so called ‘women’s march’ very fake and like Occupy will blow away with the wind in a few months. Mean while people may feel some sense of ‘identity’ from it which is understandable but beyond that I seen next to nothing in it except the usual politically correct snarkiness

  68. Patrick says:

    Just a bit more about this ‘women’s march’ and I am sorry if I post too much. But anyway yesterday we have Madonna going on about how it took this great evil (Trumps election!) to wake her/us up! Like is she serious during Obama’s time we have at least two sovereign fine countries RUINED probably beyond repair by and all aided and abetted very much by Obama & Hillary (also Zionist controlled of course). Did that wake her up? No it seems it didn’t. That’s what I find so unconvincing by a lot of ‘liberals’ and even ‘leftists’ here like NO ’empathy’ at all for people REALLY suffering and suffering because of us that seems fine with her and the likes of her. But now she is all ‘outraged’ if this is not some bogus ‘controlled opposition’ I don’t know what is. That’s why I find all this snarky jokes from the so called ‘left’ very hollow indeed. And their ‘outrage’ at Trump even more hollow.

    • Patrick says:

      BTW if anyone is interested the two countries above were Libya and Syria. I begin to think/hope also Trump may be onto the chem trail issue. He has said he wants to stop sending billions every year to the UN for ‘climate change programs’ hmmm sounds like chemtrails to me. (It is accepted chemtrails in ‘run’ by the UN) Also I heard the last thing the Obama Admin did before leaving was put $500 million into an account that deals with ‘climate change programs’ sounds like chemtrails to me (again). So……………it seems there is a chance and the nice thing is we can all see for ourselves pretty soon. It’s not often one can kind of test for oneself so far I have not seen any. Also Trump took down from the gov web site all stuff about ‘climate change’. I USED to be a big believer in that but it seems I was just part of some ‘controlled opposition’ and it is a great relief to find that if indeed it turns out to be true. I don’t know for sure though. So anyway 2 things I will be looking for hopefully no chemtrails and no ‘fake terror events’. And I say the cool thing is I can simply watch for them. If this turns out to be true Madonna and her pink ‘revolution’would be least of my concerns

  69. Daniel:

    You’re decent with numbers, aren’t you? How much news coverage across the entire spectrum of print newspapers, books, magazines, television stations, radio stations has been devoted to Donald Trump since his birth?

    I’m looking for an aggregate total of number of words across the world’s 400,000 media outlets (this number provided by the late Carrie Fisher) and I am also wanting to know how many words of newsprint has been devoted to him? An extra credit question would be how many total words were spoken about him by the world’s 7 billion people since the beginning?

    I am hoping for raw numbers dating back to the 1940’s up to now, but would it be fair to say as an opening hypothesis that Trump is the most heavily covered person ever to walk the human race?

    Would the numbers be as mind-blowing as I suspect them to be?

  70. It used to be a casual option to pay attention to Trump. Yet now, though, we are forced to pay a lot more attention to Trump and we are held hostage to this attention drain since everyone’s lives are on the line and there will be quadrillions, perhaps quintillions more words uttered about the man over a long period of time in the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if the final totals answering my questions above are well into the tens or hundreds of quintillions of words by the time our society turns into dust for future archaeologists. (100,000,000,000,000,000,0000 ++ as a graphical numerical showing)

    • Patrick says:

      Guru – I think Sylvia may be onto something with the idea that you do a lot of your ‘dreaming’ while ‘awake’

  71. Phil says:

    With your last 4 posts about Trump, you are adding to his totals and encouraging us to do that as well. If instead you focused here on your mother, her numbers could slightly improve. That’s probably all you can do to help reverse the situation. A different strategy might be a focus on the feelings involved rather than the raw numbers.

    • Phil: No offense, but I think the sheer sense of scale is being lost upon you here. When the numbers of words reach into the quadrillions or more, whether or not all of us bloggers here wrote about Trump as a dedicated team working in unison 24 hours per day for the rest of our natural lives would still be a laughably trivial consideration to the number totals.

      The numbers are so staggering that we are already past the point of no return, so go ahead and write all you want about him. Our writings are a blip seen under an electron microscope in the pile of Trump-related words regardless of what we do now.

      The final consideration here is that we have to pay attention to the man for our own safety now that he is President. We’re in a situation now that reminds me of a terminal alcoholic who literally becomes dangerously sick if he doesn’t drink more alcohol. What I analogously mean here is that…we are now in a hostage-like position where it would be literally dangerous for us not to pay attention to Trump as a society anymore (and thus being forced to add to the quadrillion/quintillion word pile for our own safety much like the terminal alcoholic past the point of no return).

      • Phil says:

        I’m glad I don’t need to worry about giving Trump attention
        It’s guaranteed that he will get it. Because of the scandals that are likely to arise he’ll probably be getting an extra amount.
        Where I work we only seem to have gossip type magazines around. Today I saw a new magazine with Trump’s daughters on the cover with the caption “Growing up Trump”.
        The attention is automatic. All of a sudden everyone wants to know what it was like growing up Trump.

    • Jack says:

      Phil: Great response to Guru. It’s well time he started to get to talking about his feeling/s other than and this head tripping stuff. It can’t be doing him any good and sure ain’t therapy.


  72. Margaret says:

    Trump’s name always associates for me with the French verb Tromper, which means to deceive, or ‘se tromper’ is to make a mistake.
    or with trumpetlike noise coming out of an elephant’s what do you call it, I htink in French or even in Dutch slang it is also a tromp..
    and well, I also found Phil’s advice a very sensible one, regardless of any numbers..

    • Phil says:

      Similar to tramposo in Spanish, which means cheat. But trump has that gambling connotation in English, as in a trump card. A trump card “trumps” a non trump card, giving the word that general association of doing one better. And that’s what Donald wants to do, to trump everyone else; Obama, Hillary etc. And get all the attention for himself.

      • Jack says:

        Phil: When I was little my mother would refere to farting as trumping. That, to me is a greaqt fit to D. J. Trump … “a great fart arse OR ass, as you would say her in the US”


        • Phil says:

          Jack: Ha Ha, Ha, that’s a good one I can’t listen to Trump speak, just can’t stand it, For me what he has to say stinks, it’s nonsense. I’ll read about what he said, that is the most I will do. That trumping your mother referred to also reminds of the tweets emanating from our new president.

          • Jack says:

            Phil: The problem is that he doesn’t fart only through his ‘arse’ but also through his mouth.

            I don’t care that he’ll take the Republican party down, but he could take down the US Least-ways for the US to lose it’s super power. That might be a good thing in-so-far as no country should have power over others. We are one creature out of many on the planet and we need to share all our resouses for one another.

            However, ‘neurosis abounds’ and that seeming ain’t gonna change … que lastima.


  73. Otto Codingian says:

    say TRUMP with a german accent. i think his lineage is german. maybe he is herr h. reincarnated, although he looks more like mussolini to me. anyway, be vewy afwaid. nsa is pulling this data as we speak, for mr. t’s morning devotion.

  74. Otto Codingian says:

    by the way, nothing against germans, i am 1/4 or 1/8, something like that. gutte nacht.

  75. Otto Codingian says:

    thank golly for those courageous women marching on washington! thank golly for their pink pussy hats.

  76. Margaret says:

    it was scary to hear on the news Trump could just with his signature (start to )undo president Obama’s decision about not allowing the oil and gas pipes that would go all the way through the States from Canada and also through Sioux holy grounds.
    I guess and hope he still needs a lot of support from the congress etc., but still, they have a majority there.
    in our oldfashioned Belgian system still with a king, that king has no power like that. once a former very religious king , Boudewijn,was opposing a niw law about abortion, but in the end his only solution was to temporarily lay his crown down until the law had passed so he would not have to sign it personally, and then to take up his job again.
    but the law was passed.
    we also have our parliaments etc., but not one person has that much power, it always remains a common decision by majority that needs to be approved in all the chambers.
    it is so arrogant to undo Obama’s achievements and long debated trade agreements on your first days as a president, a show off and a provocation.
    he does not seem to care at all about the environment and that is very bad news.

    • Patrick says:

      Margaret – I don’t think it is correct to say it was “Obama’s decision” to not build the pipeline the protesters and people were being massively hassled by “Obama’s government” for months and months it was halted by some other regulatory stuff but with Obama as in a lot of things it was not at all clear what he wanted at all. He did seem to want the TTP trade thing against most all of his own party and the left in general which to me overall just shows his shifty and devious style. He was not ‘for’ more wars in the Middle East either quote unquote he was not even for a war on Syria he just fed money and weapons to ‘terrorists’ for about 5 years to make it kept going. He did something very similar in Yemen and I think he passed off the destruction of Libya as being just Hillary Clinton’s thing. I cannot feel sorry he is gone.and find this kind of shifty ‘leadership’ pretty sickening

      Now I would agree with you we seem to have gone from the frying pan into the fire…………that’s a tough one when both are bad. There is this African saying which goes something like “When elephants fight it’s the grass that gets hurt” I am quite sensitive to this clean water issue the thing that made me the happiest in my trip to Ireland last Summer was the fact my brother and I found this spring well that he and his sheep can now drink from. The piped water there is fluoridated and it is interesting in a dark way that people find ways to screw things up even when there is no ‘danger’ around. We got piped water when I was 9 y.o.before that it way my ‘job’ everyday to go to the spring well and get the water we drank. Later my Dad used to say things were never the same once we stopped drinking the well water and now I do believe he was correct and could ‘feel’ the difference. So I do feel bad for the people there in N Dakota esp the ‘native’ people. But the modern world is a steamroller rolling over everything good. And even this issue is a bit complicated without the pipelines there are moving oil around on rails there have been some massive fires and one town in Canada was just about wiped out by one of them. But I agree with you Trump seems to be on a jihad against the environment and the only bit of good I can see is IF he at least stops what we are supposedly doing to ‘save’ us from global warming I am talking about the ‘chemtrails’ of course. So and I guess I am repeating myself I think it is good he removes a lot of this ‘global warming hypocrisy’ we have been talking and talking about this and doing nothing about it except maybe something quite harmful. I like this quote and sort of shows Obama or Trump pick your poison the are both ‘controlled’ and now we don’t need to get into by whom?

      “Oddly, much of this new war horror show has passed without notice, as though it were somehow just a continuation of acceptable norms. What has horrified the press corps, however, is the danger that peace might break out in Syria, and further hostilities risking World War III with Russia might be delayed. Liberals are also quite upset that Trump might question claims coming out of the CIA.

      So it’s not as though the public is completely failing to react to the new horrors of war. One might even go so far as to say that wide swaths of the U.S. public are behaving on the model of a Nobel Peace laureate”.(Obama)”

      • Jack says:

        Patrick: This, for me, is about the best comment you have ever made on this blog. I begin to see that you are doing a lot of thinking about a few things that I felt in the past you skated over … conveniently. You now begin (I assume) to see that Trump is a disaster about to happen.

        Where I agree with you that putting so much power in the hands of just one person, be it a dictator or a President is a perilous endeavor. BUT, and this to me is the fallacy of what we call democracy. Putting the power into a group of people over the rest of the people is also perilous. We are each of us sovereign unto ourselves, and that includes babies. Babies just need to be loved and left to their very own natural feelings, desires, ideas, thinking and whatever. Were it all goes askew is the minute we attempt to control them AGAINST THEIR VERY OWN NATURAL BEING. Such that they can grow and develop in the very own NATURAL way. Should this happen (which it invariably does not) then all the other trapping we now have put into play. Hence we have government, laws and yeah! yeah! yet again, MONEY. Money is a means of control that need not be. It’s the only real means of control. Without it we’d not even be able to get anyone to join the police, the military, a government et al and on and on and on. Even you (me and the rest of us) are trying hard to find/make a fix.

        Your Irish heritage is far closer to that (as I feel you are now seeing) than that across the Irish sea, and then got transferred to all the colonies and that includes the US of A. They were only unique in being the very first to fight for, and get, their independence from Westminster.

        But in setting up their independence they took almost all the trapping of the ‘old country’ with them. Now they in their turn are attempting to police the planet (though they will never admit it, and many case, never even see it). “Oh no!!! we are so benevolent and so free and so Democratic … and we only want to make all those other peoples think and see it our way.

        Maggie Thatcher used almost the same identical words “Put the GREAT back into Britain” (which was never great in the first place). Trump just bought into the same slogan.

        We (humans that is) lost our way, way back when!!!!! and we’ve been forever trying to fix it … when there is ‘nothing’ (NO THING) to fix. Just let it be … the way NATURE intended it. Along the way we screwed it up royally. Many have tried to think a way to get it all back. We will never get it all back UNLESS AND UNTIL we first realize where it all went wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!

        The beginnings of that took place in 1967 when some kid screamed his head off and “rattles the walls of a psychologist office … here in smoggy old Los Angeles; that those ex colonials stole from the Mexicans … and back and back and back; ad infinitum.

        Where did we go wrong??????? Search your very own mind … when something happened to you, in some little den you had in Brixton. (Just as I did in my little den on top of a mountain in Ibiza) Something touched you, and did me … and as I see you, you’ve been struggling with it ever since … haven’t we all?????? Isn’t that why we all came here?????


        • Patrick says:

          Well thanks Jack it is not so often I get a compliment from you or even from anyone LOL! For some reason now I think of my Dad his comment that things were never the same was sort of written off including by me of the ramblings of an old man. But now I truly believe he was onto something important. It’s what I miss the MOST right now here in LA……….the spring water. I have a hip pain that won’t quit and it’s like something tells me that’s what I am missing ……….the spring water. The same water I used to get everyday in the smallish can that we used for drinking water really only for making tea. We did not ‘drink’ water per se that I remember. In retrospect it can feel getting the water I mean almost like a holy rite though at the time it was just my job. Here is another short one from my favorite guy at the moment the English guy out in Cambodia about this water subject. Jack it could have been you in Ibiza!

          • Jack says:

            Patrick: It wasn’t meant as a compliment. I was just trying to say it seems you are now coming round to re-thinking a few things … and I saw that as a good sign. My whole point about anarchy and money, is the culmination of a larger point that I feel strongly about. Just my feeling on the matter; BUT if we were to do away with all the clutters and befuddles us neurotics we could get on with living life as NATURE intended.

            Of course that is just me and my thinking; which I have been preoccupied with for a long time, going way back into my 20’s. Is there a simple way out of the morass we humans have created for ourselves??????? I thus came up with my idea of abolishing that, that I felt (just my feeling) was holding us back. It’s merely an idea worth thinking about (if we can get “outside the box” that we entrapped ourselves in).

            To dismiss the notion without some radical deep thinking IMO is to lose an opportunity, and I feel, before the end of this century, might, destroy human life and perhaps all life on the planet. I know you admired and loved you dad, just as I loved my mother BUT for all the good my mother did for me, it was not perfect, and did not prevent my own fuck-up. I contend the same applies to your dad. I contend (just my contention) that if you were to get “out of the box” of your own making and see that it is not politics or even philosophy, and least of all chem-trails, that is going to get us there. (I repeat; just me). Primal Theory first gave me that clue. Just a clue … nothing more.

            The only analogy I can think of historically is the re-thing of Copernicus, then Galileo … when it seemed so natural and normal to think the sun went around us and that the earth was flat. It was the logic of the time. We humans have (though the left lobe of the brain) been thinking we have it all down pat. That is where Trump and the likes THINK they can make the US “Great Again”. It was never great in the first place and from my perspective the “Electoral Collage nation injected into the constitution was put there for no better reason IMO than had they not given the then 13 states some say in electing a President; there would NEVER have been a Union.

            Trump did not win the election … he merely won the “electoral collage” To my way of thinking the ‘electoral collage delegates’ were too scared, OR biased, to go against the preconceived notion that the US constitution was the greatest document ever. Two factors in the constitution are very flawed, IMO, and the first is the second amendment and the other is the designation of an electoral collage … which, as I see it, has come back to bite the US. Had John Roberts had all his marbles rather than adhering to the constitution, he might have refused to swear Donald Trump into the Presidency. It’s a US bias that has perpetrated this nation ever since it inception. Go figure, and that’s not meant as a criticism of you, just a figure of speach.


  77. Margaret says:

    visit to mom yesterday.
    one little painful remark she made when we were about to leave, she was gonna walk us to the elevator, and upon closing the door of her room she whispered to me:’when I get back into that room I tend to feel lonely there..’
    I told her it might help if she leaves the door open, but she did not want to do so at that moment.
    she tends to occasionally look down on the other residents or to not feel welcome by them, basically fear of rejection imo.
    so yesterday to do something about it I brought her a box of chocolates so she could go around and treat people with a chocolate.
    that went very well, so I will do so more often.
    of course it hurts what she said about feeling lonely, but rationallly I must remember all the times she says how much she likes living there, and also that most of us feel lonely every once in a while..
    she gets a lot of visit but of course does not remember the fun things.
    but another nice thing happened when we were sitting in the cafetaria, with some of her former colleagues who now all live there.
    a discussion went back and forth, sometimens hard to follow because of the noise and sometimes mom just repeating stuff others did not listen to or which was not well fitting into the rest of the conversation.
    but the overall feeling being one of things being ok and kind of cosy.
    I sat next to my mom, and on several occasions she just reached out to my hand, and stroked it or squeezed it in a reassuring , tender and loving way.
    makes me teary a bit right now…
    there is still so much longing for more connection, and the huge apprehension of a coming permanent goodbye at some point. I will miss her so terribly.

  78. Margaret says:

    I heard Trump now prohibits certain official ecological research centers to publish and especially to put information on the social media.
    don’t know the exact details about it, but it certainly is ironic. wonder if he trumped it through a tweet…

    already starting to censor, on his third day.
    and now he wants to check the elections as he still can’t accept there were more votes for hillary . and hey hey, not as many people on the inaugruation is fake news as well, even his comrades satrt to comment on him and that he should get a hold on himself.
    let him dig his own grave hopefully.
    scary and fascinating at the same time.
    such an inflated ego, one would expect it could burst some day..
    and oh yes his giant gorgeous wall which he said they will soon call the Trump wall…
    funny he says so himself, haha,he is so incredibly transparent .
    but it does remain scary as well, all those weapons and all that power to cause damage in so many ways…

  79. Phil says:

    I’m hoping that other leaders in Trump’s own party will be forced to move against him; because their own political survival will be at stake. Trump may have had the political skills to somehow get elected, but he is no leader. I don’t think he can govern. The emperor has no clothes and I hope people are taking a close look. I’ll skip that, I’ve seen more than enough.

  80. Patrick says:

    One thing I feel like writing about a little bit it seems and I probably am too fixated on the “News” Well it’s sort of my earliest memories as I emerged from infancy and later when I could hear stuff on the radio and look at the headlines in the newspaper and most important I was able to share that kind of stuff with my Dad. It just seemed such a cool world opening up also I suspect a world of the ‘mind’ there was a lot about the other world the world of my Mom that was troubled and not ‘cool’ My earliest ‘news’ memories were stuff like Gary Powers U2 plane shot down over Russia, Cuba was in the news a lot. I remember at the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis going out in the onion fields with my Dad to work and he in a kind of throw away way said ‘maybe the world is finished, maybe there will be no tomorrow’ It ‘scared’ me of course at the same time I remember thinking well my Dad is saying one thing but sort of doing another. Like was going to harvest the onions no world or not. And I liked that about my Dad he shared his deepest fears I truly think he wondered if there would be a tomorrow but at the same time the fact that he went ahead regardless gave a confidence that somehow we will make it. I still have a bit of that as bad as things can seem that is why now also I don’t feel like collapsing in despair about Trump or whatever.

    Another aspect of this I feel like mentioning is because the ‘news’ was such a great discovery for me as a child and also I had 100% faith that it was all ‘true’ and this was cemented by the bond with my Dad who I am sure felt the same way………….that is why I find even the idea that a lot of these ‘terror events’ are possibly fake so amazing and also so disturbing. Like how can people be blase about the possibility of this. I don’t like it at the same time I do have this ‘confidence’ to keep going and ‘researching’ it etc. And fake or not I do feel I get to a deeper reality and I know ‘truth’ more. To me that is the greatest gift of all.

    • Jack says:

      Patrick: All that would be fine if “Truth” is a reality or just another one of thse words we’ve been accustomed to, through our religeous and cultural heritages.

      It is interesting that now the Trump people are talking about “Alternative Truths”, I got to thinking about the very nature of the word when I reflected on my religious beliefs at age nineteen. What is truth and what is fiction? Could it be that one mans truthy is another man’s fiction … It’s worth a thought.

      I’m at this moment in time concerned that many things we call “truths” are more to do with perception rather than reality … and what is reality anyway? I can only know my own reality, and for me, the only reality I can be certain of are my feelings.


      • Phil says:

        Those “alternative facts” of Trump are his lies. Many things can be measured and/or documented and established as a facts when verified by multiple reliable sources.
        Trump has been lying right along and got elected on that basis. He lies about something ridiculous like attendance at his inauguration. More important lies will soon be coming, I’m afraid I think he’s completely untrustworthy.

        • Sylvia says:

          Phil, I was telling someone the other day how trump reminded me of the character in “The Caine Mutiny” where Humphrey Bogart’s Captain Queeg was obsessed on his ship by who ate a quart of strawberries. He neglected his captain duties in his paranoia over this irrelevant incident. Trump is obsessed with voter fraud saying 3 million votes were illegally cast for Hillary probably by people long dead, even though he won the electoral college vote, because he wanted to beat Hillary all around even in popular vote. I smell a mutiny.
          Hope republicans get fed up too.

          • Jack says:

            Sylvia: It is my feeling that the likes of D. J. Trump has been in ‘the cards’ for quite some number of years. I relate back to my child-hood when there was one kid on the block that was for ever spinning weird stories that he claimed were facts.

            It’s a process as I see it as “effect effect, effect. On thing leads sort of naturally towards another. Like Hitler played on the very fact that the Germans had been humiliated by the allies winning World War I.

            I see it as The United States was beginning to realize that their supper power status was on the wane, and that America (the US) was not popular around the word anymore. The very same kind of resentment occurred to the British in they “hey day”. The very fact that this country allowed the rise in billionaires whilst there were homeless people in all the major cities and many very poor people living below the poverty line.

            Trump to me is a factor of this feeling among Americans that their day is over and the future does not belong to the US … though they ‘blow the opposite horn’. “I’ll make America Great again” is a slogan that appeals to those dearly wishing it and hoping it is “The Truth”.

            I feel, that this will only accelerate the resentment towards the US and especially since Trump touts another slogan. “America first”.
            “What” I ask “at the expense of other nations”????

            However the old adage hold true … “Pride comes before the fall”


        • Jack says:

          Phil: As I stated in my response to Sylvia about the kid on th block in my own child-hood that was for ever spinning his lies and weird stoies. I see Trump in the very same light. He’s an inveterate liar and I can only think, he feels if he says enough times, especially since he now holds the “bully pulpit” … it will, for the the most part be believed.

          He’s conviced himself … even if he’s not convinced another single person and to his very own psyche that is enough.


  81. Phil says:

    Here’s something to ponder.

    It was reported today that the “doomsday clock” moved 30 seconds closer to midnight and is now just 2 1/2 minutes away, the closest it’s been since 1953.

    Here’s a quote from the report:

    “In announcing that the Doomsday Clock was moving 30 seconds closer to the end of humanity, the group noted that in 2016, “the global security landscape darkened as the international community failed to come effectively to grips with humanity’s most pressing existential threats, nuclear weapons and climate change.”
    But the organization also cited the election of President Trump in changing the symbolic clock.”

    I can certainly agree with this about the election of Trump, and also the failure of humanity to take care of lethal pressing problems.


    • Phil says:

      The “cold war” tensions that have existed in my house since Christmas finally seem to be relaxing. I think it did help that we were finally able to have a discussion, at my prompting. although it didn’t go altogether smoothly.
      It helps that a fair amount of time has passed since the outbreak of hostilities. It’s a relief to me because I don’t want to continue to be treated like North Korea. I can’t take that. I don’t feel that I tested any thermonuclear devices or made any extreme threats, and don’t deserve to be treated like that. I did find out, however, that an incident involving where shoes are left partly explains this flareup. I won’t go into details but it is a long standing issue still needing resolution, yet I don’t feel it threatens the existence of life in my home.

  82. Patrick says:

    I begin to feel Trump is ‘dangerous’ and like he is acting as if it is the day after 9/11. Talking about torture and ‘black sites’ all over the world for torture. He mentions 9/11 too as if it happened yesterday and interestingly also mentions the San Bernadino ‘terror event’ that happened here a bit over a year ago. One weird similarity General Wesley Clark said that the Pentagon plan after 9/11 was to invade 7 countries in 5 years. So to me it was a weird echo this morning when I heard Trump wants to bar all emigration from SEVEN countries. I thought to myself hmmm………………I wonder if they are the SAME 7 countries. Guess what it’s 6 out of 7. The ‘original’ 7 were Libya,, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Somalia & Sudan. Well all is the same except Yemen is now put in in place of Lebanon which comes out.
    Sort of shows to me the SAME agenda is still being pursued 9/11 is the gift that keeps on giving so first off BOMB and create massive refugees flows from those countries NOW put up a wall or a gate saying guess what………… ain’t going anywhere.Cruel and unfair beyond all and part of the agenda to DESTROY all Muslims countries. Bomb the crap out of them and then keep them from moving at least to here the author of the bombing.

    This to me is why ‘truth’ is so important it is my belief that Muslims had NOTHING to do with 9/11 OR San Bernadino. But who knows this and the ones that know don’t care in fact they perpetrate the lie. So does Trump know? Hard to say but for sure he does not care. Knowing or not he will fulfill the orders of his Zionist masters the same ones behind both of these ‘events’ So it might as well be the day after 9/11 there is more hell to pay and a lot more blood to spill. More torture and ‘black sites’ Bush is back Obama was just a faker a placeholder while the Empire gathers itself for another assault on Muslims. Obama did his job continued and expanded the wars he added at least 2 countries to the list and the destruction continued throughout his reign now its’ time it seems for the return of “Bush”. Rumors of his disappearance have been greatly exaggerated. Here is the Wesley Clark clip and it’s spooky to see it and how Obama ‘played his part’ to perfection he added Libya, Syria, Sudan and kept going in one way or another on all the others. But Obama the placeholder is gone welcome to the new brutal reality

    • Phil says:

      Does this mean you feel Israel tampered with our elections, and not Russia?
      Trump did appeal to people with his rhetoric and won the election.
      He is dangerous, I agree, but it’s because of his personality and ideas.

      • Patrick says:

        Phil – I don’t know. But I would put it as more likely than Russia. They have the ‘access’ and the ‘ability’ as they have demonstrated over and over

  83. Patrick says:

    Interesting (to me at least) in these SEVEN countries Afghanistan is not mentioned (supposedly where 9/11 came from) not is Saudi Arabia (supposedly where most of the ‘hijackers’ came from)…………..which is another maybe ‘small’ indicator of how bogus the whole story is/was. It came from NEITHER of these place and from NOWHERE in the Muslim world but that lie is not in cement as I call it the gift that keeps on giving. Reminds me of a few other big lies also lies that keep on giving but I better leave it at that………….

    • Patrick says:

      …………..sorry should have said “now in cement’ NOT ‘not in cement’

    • Sylvia says:

      Could it be that trump hasn’t stopped immigration from Turkey, Egypt and Saudi Arabia because he has business interests there….That’s the word, anyways.
      Senator Chuck Schumer said to congress the same day trump made the inaugural speech in support of the populace that he reversed a decision by the housing and urban development dept. to reduce insurance premiums that would save new homeowners $500 and make it easier to get a mortgage. So now those with modest means have it harder to secure a mortgage. More lies….
      The Senator also said if these things can’t be debated in committee that they will be talked about on the senate floor, so we will all know what is going on.

      • Phil says:

        I think it’s because ISIS has been in Iraq, Syria, and Libya, Al Qaeda has been in Yemen and Somalia. Also there is a list of state sponsors of terror and on that list is Iran, Sudan, and Syria, I don’t know why Afghanistan wouldn’t be on the list. Maybe because the Taliban have been removed from power and Al Qaeda was chased out?
        Turkey is in NATO and is an ally. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are allies as well. Trump’s idea is wrong; likely to fail and backfire. It ignores the plight of innocent individuals in those countries. I think there is already strong vetting and few immigrants from those areas.

        Especially outrageous is Trump saying we should have taken Iraq’s oil, and that we should still do that if we have another chance.

        • Phil says:

          Well, I guess Afghanistan is now also considered a friendly ally. I just don’t see that Trump will be likely to improve matters. His plans on immigration are just so reactive and biased, based on his impulses and not any rational analysis of the situation.

        • Sylvia says:

          Yes Phil, looking at those poor people from Syria who need a safe place is heartbreaking. I saw also where trump said we should have taken Iraq’s oil. That would have supposed the president of Iraq wouldn’t be inclusive in his government (which he ultimately wasn’t) and not given him a chance to govern. Trump doesn’t even recognize their sovereignty if he thought we should strip them of their oil.
          He could give Beavis and Butthead a run for their money thinking he has all the answers.

  84. Jo says:

    What an amazing movie ‘Room’ is…I’ve just watched it. I resisted going to see it all this time, because I read the book quite a while back. I found the book so harrowing, because you only learn slowly that mum and son are captured, and the story is so shocking an experience to me.
    After their initial stay in the hospital (in the book) and they are leaving, I’m shocked again because observers mention how the the boy is like a monkey, small..and you don’t get any sense of that in the earlier part of the story. It’s triggeringly sad for me to see how much love, attention, interaction he got from his mum.
    Then in the movie I was identifying with the boy’s fear, and later with the feeling of isolation at home when he played alone.
    So moving was the sensitivity of step grandpa.
    How incredible was the young actor! The movie brilliantly portrayed how it feels to be a young child having to cope with so much, even with loving people around.
    I cried alot, for the times of neglect and isolation and no mummy.

    • Patrick says:

      Jo – I agree very much a beautiful film. I think I put a ‘review’ on here when it came out maybe I will try to find just for the ‘fun’ of it

      • Patrick says:

        Jo – OK being a bit egocentric here but this is what I wrote about the movie “Room” at the time. BTW I prefer your ‘review’ smiley

        I don’t go to the movies at all during the Summer but I do in Winter. Anyway I saw quite a good one today called “Room” about a mother and child kidnapped and kept in a room with no contact at all with the outside world. I found it quite moving and also interesting even though it was ‘traumatic’ the child sort of wanted to go back there. It even felt like a lost paradise to him in some ways and he asks him Mom to actually go back there and look. The movie ends there kind of implying he can now leave it behind. All in all I would recommend it.

    • Larry says:

      Sounds worth a look. I’ll try to rent it.

  85. Patrick says:

    Here is something Kevin Barrett (one of my favorite ‘pundits’) said about Trump’s week

    “Trump’s first week: One or two positives, and the rest was a total disaster.

    He’s fear-mongering. He wants to bring back torture, black sites, unilateral invasions of the Middle East (that’s what “safe zones in Syria” means). He’s cozying up to the Likudniks in Israel. He’s going to throw money at the military, start trade wars with Mexico and China, and artificially pump up the economy till it bursts. And the next collapse will be a whole lot worse than 2008.

    We are staring disaster in the face – the big, ruddy, loudmouthed face of one Donald J. Trump. And almost all of Trump’s disastrous moves are pure products of the Big Lie of 9/11. It’s almost as if Trump is stuck in the shocked, paranoid world of 9/12/2001.

    But that’s not really his fault. It’s our fault – for not exposing the 9/11 Big Lie a long, long time ago. If we don’t do it now, the USA, and the world, will keep swirling faster and faster before taking the final plunge into the hole in the bottom of the toilet”

    • Jack says:

      Patrick: Believe it, or believe it not, BUT I have been more than somewhat aware of most of what you say in this last comment for a long time going way back into my early 20’s … after attending a series of lectures at Regents Crescent, Just south of Regents Park.

      However, I knew then, that few would ever stretch their thinking to accommodate most of what was said in these lectures. BUT they did touch on something deep in me.

      It seems that is is now becoming more obvious; what is amiss … but there seems to be few answers out there. Do we really need all these trappings … just to live our lives … as nature intended it??? I for one don’t think so.


      • Patrick says:

        Jack – I would not mind claiming that I wrote that but actually it is written by a guy called Kevin Barrett who is someone I trust very much. My favorite ‘news program’ now is a weekly thing he does called “False Flag News” and well the title gives you the idea but I find him very balanced and not at all ‘addicted’ to so called ‘conspiracy theories” Link below to this weeks ‘news’ Do you remember who gave the lectures and what in general were they about?

        • Jack says:

          Yes; I do remember those lectures well and have commented on their broad issue several times on this blog. In the end it is all encapsulated in the only solution that they the lecturers and I myself have stated simply on this blog.

          Abolish Money, Law and Government ( the trappings of civilization which is anything but civil… the idea has been around for over a century. I did NOT INVENT IT. I merely bought into it after a great deal of thought, and initially I was skeptical of the idea.

          However, it requires MORE THAT THE USUAL two second of just dismissing it. I have for years been listening to these dismissals for over six decades. BUT there does not seem and alternative that I have heard of except, more Presidents, Prime ministers, Dictators et al

          For my money America has gotten what it deserves … Donald J. Trump.


  86. Chris P says:

    Hello all,
    I just found out about two hours ago that my mother who was almost 90 years of age passed away at 4:30 PM EST. I am in a bit of a shock, and going in and out of feelings. I am feeling a little sad. I feel that there will never be a chance to get her to be kind or to get her loving again; that is terribly sad to me. It is an utter loss of hope.

    But I am overwhelmed with rage and anger more than anything. She was a terrible mother. She never said a kind thing to me nor was she loving to me my entire life. I am not exaggerating. She neglected me completely as an infant. She fed me when she wanted to feed me, not when I was hungry. She left me locked away in a dark room all day and ignored my cries for food, for comfort, or to be changed. She never ever held or hugged me.

    And then as a young boy she constantly yelled at me and told me what a bad boy I was. Constantly. She basically treated me as an annoyance. She always had a look of contempt on her face when she looked at me. What a horrible horrible person she was. It has taken me many many years in therapy to even get the semblance of a normal life. I say “semblance” because although I have a nice home and a good job, I feel empty inside and it is hard for me to love and to be loved.

    As a man, she tried to celebrate my success as if she had some part in it. I would have none of that. She has only harmed me; nothing at all to help or support me. She called me on the phone once in my life and wrote me once too: it was a very superficial post card when I was in Marine Corps boot camp. I hate her. I HATE HER and I fucking hope she rots in hell.

    And people are asking me if I am going back home for the funeral. I have no desire at all to see her in a coffin. To me there is no difference in her being dead in a coffin or the way she treated me my whole life: she has been dead to me for a long time. I actually do want to see some of my old friends and some family members, but I won’t be able to bear hearing their fables about what an amazing person she was. I am already reading the ridiculous shit they are writing on Facebook about her: My sister-in-law wrote: “A great woman. Strong willed”; my cousin wrote “she was a sweet and gentle woman who LOVED her family very much.”

    A great woman my ass. Not sweet and loving at all! A horrible loser who raised a family of 7 handicap children. All of my brothers and sisters are fucked up. One of my brothers died at 37 from alcoholism. Two other siblings are currently alcoholics. Most of them are underachievers and not loving or feelingful people. And all of them except for me are in denial about how horrible of a person she was. I know it is customary at funerals to think of only good things about a person, but I really can’t see anything good about this creature that bore me.

    A few weeks ago my brother called me from her hospice bed on video phone. He said she wanted to talk to me. I had not talked to her for many years before this phone call and I did not want to talk to her but he insisted and I relented. She was playing up how weak and frail she was. And she wanted me to tell her that I loved her. I could not bring myself to lie. It was getting very uncomfortable as she was basically begging me to tell her that I loved her. I do not. I hate you. You have done nothing but harm me. I wish now I would have asked her at the time, “Why should I love you?” If I would have asked her, the answer I am sure would have been “Because I am your mother.”

    No ma’am, you never were, you are not, nor now will you ever be my mother.

    Goodbye lady

    • Phil says:

      I am very sorry to hear about loss of your mother. Such a sad and terrible story you describe.

    • Jack says:

      Wow Chris: I am crying now as I read your comment. It was so, so, so moving and so, so sad, but brilliantly written and expressed. You sure are a “poster boy” for this therapy as I have discovered sitting for you, as you have for me. I hope you can get some resolution to the feelings you are having at the moment … which as I read you is a mixture of both grief and anger.

      We’ll talk soon. Take great care meantime Chris.


      • Chris P says:

        thank you Jack. you are right, a mixture of grief and anger, overwhelming grief and anger. I’ll talk to you soon dear buddy.

    • Larry says:

      It’s amazing how well you’ve adjusted, Chris, given the neglect and hate toward you while growing up. It is testimony to all the difficult brave work you did in working through your pain. I wish you the best in dealing with your oncoming feelings of anger and grief, including grief over the mother you should have but never had.

      You are an example of why the world needs to know about Primal Therapy. In the latest issue of New Scientist magazine there is an article titled ‘Electric Shocks Help Depression’. Attached to the article is a picture of an actual guy’s head, viewed from the rear, much of the top of it wrapped in some sort of blue medical cloth, and an electric probe entering the cloth area near the left front of his head and another near the right side of his head. I feel sad for the guy, trapped and depressed in all his pain, desperate for relief to the point of risking electrifying his brain, not knowing there is an other healthier real way out.

      I’m glad you found this therapy Chris.

    • errona says:

      Chris, I’m so sorry to hear of the pain you’re in from this, and can truly relate to having a crazy mother. Your relating how the sadness was in the loss, what was taken from you, is something I also understand so well. I wish you all the very best in the days ahead.


  87. Margaret says:

    Chris, I really don’t know what to say.
    it is such a heartbreaking story.

  88. Sylvia says:

    Take good care Chris; very glad you have a listening buddy in Jack to help you through the mixture of these powerful feelings. You are brave to confront them. Again, take care.


  89. Otto Codingian says:

    Hope we are still allowed to laugh before he blows up the planet. oh well.

  90. Sylvia says:

    Otto, haven’t had a good laugh like that in a while–very funny presidential stuff; what else can we do but laugh at him.

  91. Chris: I really don’t feel any sense of safety at all in posting directly towards you, so I will just say I am sorry to hear you never got what you wanted from your mother. There are many, many things I could say here and questions I could ask right now, but the safety component has been ruined for me (too much intimidating emotional volatility for me to deal with).

    At least personally, one of the maternal keepsakes I have is a small envelope with clippings of my first haircut. The little envelope had my mother’s writing, ” FIRST haircut “. So yes, being a wanted child is always going to be a huge factor no matter how one discusses it.

  92. Sunday morning relaxation as Trump takes us back to the 1950’s:

    • My mother also wrote (name) and (date) on the haircut envelope, but when I mistakenly used (greater than/less than) symbols for those generic designations in my posting above WordPress swallowed my efforts out of existence as a dummy HTML tag. Just a technical observation, no big deal anyway.

  93. Margaret says:

    from my own set of feelings it seems impossible to imagine how you must feel, Chris.
    especially that description of having your mom on the phone seems out of my own reference system.
    for which I consider myself lucky.
    I agree with Larry, that it is a big achievemment you have managed to survive and make yourself a fairly succesful life, and have been able to be a nice person .
    these must be incredibly hard feelings to deal with, I am glad to hear you have good support from Jack.
    and Bisky for extra consolation.
    thinking of you,

    • Chris P says:

      thank you Margaret…they are incredibly difficult feelings, but it helps so much to get support from you and other friends (especially Jack) here on the blog and in groups…

  94. Patrick says:

    I hesitate to talk about the “News” again also with Chris’ immediate and very personal situation. Though at the same time I kind of echo Guru’s remarks towards Chris. Though of course admitting and being aware of my tendency to get into ‘fights’ I have had sort of a ‘silent’ one with Chris only silent because of his silence. His refusal you might say to have an ‘honest fight’ while at the same time sending out ‘fight’ signals and even actions. Also it is difficult to ‘console’ someone for a loss that he seems to almost angrily himself to recognize is he even ‘sad’ about his Mother’s death how can I be on his behalf? I am probably going too far there it is such a personal situation and not for me to even enter in any way……………but just speaking of my own admittedly very limited interaction(s) with Chris I found a very extreme ‘cutting off’ from him. He is not alone in the world and is in relation to his environment whether he wants to recognize that or not and I did feel his attempt at ‘cutting off’ me was so extreme I find myself guessing is he in some way doing the same thing with his own mother. Just sort of ‘condemns’ her has ‘no time’ for her etc etc..Of course in primal that kind of behavior tends to be ‘approved’ of on the surface at least but to me I find it kind of disgusting to be honest. We are all in ONE world and if someone sort of puts themselves outside it to such a degree even to their own mother who no matter how ‘bad’ conceived and bore and at least kept alive that person well I see that ‘cutting off’ destructive and hateful and not something to be ‘admired’ in any way. It just occurs to me now talking about ‘cutting off’ Chris to his great credit has raised the alarm about the original cutting off of circumcision he has been very brave and honest there so who knows what he is really dealing with. Maybe his ‘cutting off’ there was so extreme in his experience that he can’t help it does it all around to a lot of people including his own Mother.. I can’t help but feel she is somehow the target of some anger she does not quite ‘deserve’

    I have probably screwed up a bunch of stuff here but somehow for me it raises again the potential SEVERE results of circumcision. “Jewish” behavior in the world was a ‘mystery’ to me until now i think this is a big clue. What we see in microcosm with Chris we see everyday in the world in macrocosm if we care to look and if we are lucky to get the proper influences and not the ones that would perpetrate and prolong that situation. It seems to engender so much hate, alienation and blaming the World for what is inside………………….and unfortunately I see Chris being stuck in the middle of this. I better stop now…………………sorry if I upset anyone too much but as I say when I wake up I like to put down what is on my mind. This I do appreciate this blog for very much and again I thank Gretchen for it. I guess I forgot to talk about the “News” probably just a relief to people who needs to hear my ‘take’ all the time though Trump is giving me many reasons…………..

    • Jack says:

      Quote:- ” if I upset anyone too much, but as I say when I wake up I like to put down what is on my mind.”
      Geeeeesus: how disconnected you are from anything that counts from being alive. This blog is NOT for saying what is on your mind, BUT how You FEEL. What is on you mind is a means of hiding from REAL feelings, empathy, sympathy or understanding of ones own self.
      Is it any surprise that you failed … yes FAILED to do Primal Therapy??????? I see you as so disconnected from your own body.
      You don’t even understand desires of others seemingly. Chris at the retreat did not want to shake you hand. Simple … he just did not like you and had no desire to shake your hand … AND then as some deep profound disturbance inside you, you ran off from the retreat and came back for the last half day or so. Who were you punishing WHO??????? just answer the question to yourself. I doubt you would even have a clue about what I am taking about … demonstrating a disconnection that is so, so deep … within your own body.

      As for “anal-izing” him for his current feelings … is just another indication to most, the lack of empathy, symapthy and disconnected from people and their inner feelings. It is more than disgusting it is outright shameful. BUT I doubt you even have a modicum of an idea, what you are doing … let alone what is taking place inside you.


  95. Leslie says:

    Chris – I am sorry for the childhood you had with your biological mother. You missed out on so much due to her negligence.
    Thankfully – you have worked hard in every way and truly have yourself, your career, home and friends.
    Take good care.

  96. Margaret says:

    it is not the first time I say this, but you distort what happened between you and Chris.
    you did insult him several times on the blog, out of the blue, and then when you met him for the first time at the start of a retreat, you kind of wanted to force him to shake your hand, which he refused to do. Chris even gave you his reason why in an outspoken way by telling you he did not feel like shaking your hand as you did insult him several times on the blog so why should he shake your hand?
    I stood right there between the two of you as you had been talking with me.
    what counts is that it did feel a bit like you wanted to dominate him with your handshaking thing, but that does not even matter.
    then the next thing is you were the one fiercely rejecting and attacking him since that moment.
    you should look in the mirror a bit more often whenever you feel like accusing people of something, as it is often something you do a lot yourself.
    you have a habit of cutting people off the moment they disagree with you, by immediately calling them names in the worst way you can come up with.
    this does not mean I do not appreciate the honest part of your comment, but it would have been so much better if you would have spoken about your own feelings, with regard to a parent or with regard to being hurt by someone and possibly forgiving or whatever.
    instead of judging Chris , you are such an example of what the bible refers to by talking about a splinter in someone’s eye while having a large piece of wood in one’s own eye.
    if you are triggered, focus on your own feelings and write about those if you truely want to be honest.
    much more constructive.
    Chris is following his own track, a difficult and painful one, but he does move forward on it and faces his demons.
    you should not judge him, and if what he says triggers you that is ok, but focus on what it represents for you personally and reflect on it, try to imagine someone else’s situation and stop behaving as if you are superior and have all the answers.
    a touch of humbleness would make a world of difference.

  97. Phil says:

    It is a huge thing for Chris that his mother just passed away, even if, as I am understanding, she was a terrible, neglectful parent. You mention a lot of things that are, to me, not something to say at this moment. It’s a case of where you might see it would have been better to have stayed quiet as Chris probably has more than enough to deal with. Not an appropriate time to bring up your feelings about him and past incidents.
    This is a primal, feeling blog, but to me that isn’t an excuse to just blurt anything out.
    My immediate reaction to what you wrote.

    • Patrick says:

      Phil & Margaret – I appreciate your points and have no need to argue with them. Also I want to say to Chris I am sorry it is not my place to intrude or say what you ‘should’ or should not feel. It is just a reaction I have and I supposed it is ok to voice that. I read your post again so ok fine you are saying how you feel about your Mother the one point that still really sticks me is you are talking to her on the phone and she is dying and she is reaching out to you and you say “She was playing up how weak and frail she was” …………..I mean I cannot help thinking/saying she IS ‘weak and frail’ she is not ‘playing’. I was at my Mother’s bedside for her last month and when someone is really dying they are not ‘playing’ at anything. My relationship with my Mom was ‘troubled’ to say the least but I was/am very glad I was there. For some reason it sticks in my mind as he knew she was going she said “It won’t do” and it seemed to sum her up how practical she was. In the end she saw herself maybe like another farm animal who ‘won’t do’ will die in other words. I get intimations of old age and dying and I can imagine as that gets closer and more real there is no ‘playing’ involved. You as a ‘philosopher’ Chris should know the difference between illusion and reality between playing and dying for real. I feel like saying ‘get over yourself’ and go to her funeral, you are just part of a chain you might even be as ‘cruel’ (from another point of view), as her quit being a primal ‘poster boy’ and be a little bit human. Primal poster boy status will pass and it only exists in the diseased? mind of certain ideologues anyway, quit being such a primal all about yourself crybaby go the funeral meet your family and forget thinking you are somehow ‘better’ than them. That’s just more “Chosen Race” stuff and should be kept where it belongs……………..

      • Phil says:

        I think funerals can be important to go to for dealing with the feelings involved, and they are for the survivors, not the one who died. I I made some mistakes not going to funerals many years ago, for an aunt and a great aunt. Mainly because of anxiety about going to such events. But that resulted in some problems and disconnection from family members for me. and it wasn’t a good excuse.

      • Jack says:

        Quote:- “quit being such a primal all about yourself crybaby go the funeral meet your family and forget thinking you are somehow ‘better’ than them. That’s just more “Chosen Race” stuff and should be kept where it belongs……………..”

        Who the fuck do you think you are????? You often refer to others being hypocitical. As I see you, YOU are one of the biggest. As I pointed out to you in my last comment to you. “You don;’t have [a fucking] clue what you are talking about.

        I can only suppose you are one of those (of the five Irishment) neeeded to SCREW in a light bulb.

        Fuch off. Jack

  98. miguel says:

    Chris, receive my condolences for your mother.

    In my post about the dogma of the political correctness, I want to make clear that I am not against any minority, but what makes me angry is that new dogma . So I do not want to be misunderstood.

    Having to fight for my freedom first with my father, with the Catholic Church, the Franco regime, the Marxist dogma in the university in my college years. Do not want to live under any dictatorship, dogma, but in an open society.

    So freedom of speech has some restrictions as hate speech. Having said that:

    So I read this article which I subscribe

    “Freedom of minorities is something fair and necessary, and for this we must inform and persuade people, not restrict it and punish it for their opinions.

    So I think, it’s good that women are gaining more space in society, it’s good that homosexuals in the same way are increasingly integrated into society and have the right to marry as heterosexual couples, good thing we break Taboos and stop thinking that social structures are monolithic and immovable.

    I as a person who believes in democracy and freedom of expression, I do not agree with this “wave” of establishing that it is politically correct and what not, especially by the ways in which that is done.

    In an effort to seek that equality and end discrimination against sexual minorities, a dogma is to be implemented. As if that dogma were an absolute truth. It is the dogma of the “politically correct”.

    Without falling into the exaggeration of some conservative groups that claim that they “want to impose a totalitarian dictatorship,” this new culture of the “politically correct” rather than being democratic or liberal, is dogmatic and can call into question freedom of expression.

    And paradoxically, because we define ourselves as liberals, we are supposed to aspire to conduct ourselves through reason and not through dogma.

    In fact, all we are doing is creating a new layer of moral taboos. That is, we want to reach “equality” by abolishing any expression that according to some criteria that are often not subject to debate, promote inequality. Does it sound like a Marxist to you? No, it is no coincidence, it is indeed a cultural Marxism. Just dig to find the roots of these proposals. One has only to look at sociologists who are experts in conflict theory-a purely Marxist trend-and the radical feminist currents whose ideology lies in Marxism.

    Many of us want a free society based on reason and common sense. Many believe in the freedoms and rights of those groups that have been segregated because of their race, sexual preference or religion. I as a Democrat, I want a world where both religious, gay, black, white, tall and short, have the right to express themselves and create their project of life without anyone restraining them”.


    • Phil says:

      Those are interesting and provocative comments. I can see from your history where you are coming from.
      I see political correctness as working against a bunch of things that still have some acceptability and shouldn’t. I’m talking about racism, sexism, sexual harassment, sexual assault, homophobic behavior etc. This political correctness may be a certain kind of “dogma”, and we should be very careful about what’s included, but I’m fine with it because of the progress it includes. I guess it also depends on what anyone thinks is progress.

      Also, Marxism may be a term tainted by history, but I think it contains some important and useful ideas, but the problem is how it was put into practice. I’m personally hoping we can move beyond the political correctness in the US of being unable to consider more fully the benefits of certain socialist concepts, like universal healthcare.

      • Jack says:

        Phil: I do feel strongly about the nature of ‘funerals’ and I did not, AND told my mother before she died I would not be going home, from Ibiza where I was living at the time, to her funeral. She cried when I told her so, but then told her I would come home to see her alive; BEFORE she died. That somehow lifted her out of the feeling. I did comply with that promise and went home to see her before she died. It was one of the greatest meoments I EVER had with MY mother and I felt for her also. It was my father’s disire to deal with her funeral and cremation, and he did that beuatifully, I thought.

        On the other front, with Chris, as his and my buddy, I have been very cognoscente of what is taking place with Chris and a great amount of his therapy. Other than Gretchen and Barry, I feel no other get anywhere near to Chris’s inner feelings. Feelings of TOTAL AND UTTER NEGLECT, when it was MOST needed. There are others on the blog with similar feeling and situations, I feel; and that boggles my mind. I did not have anything coming close to that. I had a “Mammy”. What I did not have was the Daddy I NEEDED.

        Support as I see it it to just listen and as for as possible empathize with it (subjectively), or alternatively sympathize (objectively) with it as best one is able. Advice I feel under these king of circumstances serves no purpose … I contend.


        • Phil says:

          I think Chris should do whatever he wants and feels best for him in regards to his mother’s funeral. I haven’t said otherwise.
          I can somewhat relate to what he has said about total and utter neglect from his mother.
          I don’t remember anything positive coming from my own mother. It is all punishments and neglect that I remember. But I did feel some loss when she passed away, and through therapy, and also feelings of needing her, so I take that as a sign that there should be something positive to remember. In most cases, it would seem to me, people can’t be 100% bad every moment of every day.

  99. Margaret says:

    I have become aware with my own mom it indeed occurs some of her behavior tends to trigger the old irritation of when she in the past was indeed playing out to be helpless, and then it is useful to separate that old reality from the present reality where she forgets and it is not a question of being self centered from her part.
    on the opposite, she seems more focused on caring about how we are in a genuine way, always asks about that in several ways, if we are well, happy, not lonely, not lacking of anything, have enough friends, a boyfriend, etc.
    so part of me agrees with part of what you say, Patrick, and you should be careful with using the primal label to stick on anything.
    but in Chris’ case, we don’t know about his history, and we don’t know about his actual feelings, and should respect he tries to deal at best with them.
    the last comment you made, Patrick, was already more balanced in referring more to your own feelings and experiences.
    that is always ok.
    as I said, my set of references seems so different from that of Chris, that me too I feel sad about what happened during that phone call, or of what did not happen.
    but it must have been a moment of terrible strain on Chris, and on hindsight all kind of things can come up one could have said or would have said, but in his shoes we might have reacted the same.
    in any case it seems like a terrible amount of pain is there to be dealt with, and it must be very very hard for Chris to work his way through it, and he deserves our support.
    that does not mean you have to agree with everything, only to be sensitive about what to say and how to say it, or not to say it as he will ddeal with his feelings in his own time, and with the help of good therapists.
    my halfsister is now in the situation she has to go help a mother she refused to see for 25 years , after a terrible childhood and more bad things afterwards.
    she has not really made up with her mother now, but says to her what is on her mind and she told me recently it feels like therapy to be able to say some things.
    her mother is now extremely grateful, but it also seems healthy my sister does keep a safe emotional distance and does not trust her.
    but she feels it as her duty to assist in some practical ways, the mom broke her hip and is 92, and everyone else apart from professionals refuse to help her out as she has been such a bitch all her life..
    but we should speak for ourselves and try not to judge someone else too fast.
    you, Patrick, have some good memories about your mother, which makes a world of difference from someone who has recieved nothing but rejection and pain.
    heartbreaking, I agree.

  100. Margaret says:

    I agree.
    funerals are often more about the connection with the remaining family than about the deceased, in some cases at least.
    not going can cause irrepairable damage.
    but just my personal view of course.

  101. Margaret says:

    p.s. what I feel like adding to my former long comment is I htink Chris deserves some space too to deal with his feelings in his own way.

  102. Phil says:

    As a child, when I went to my mother’s funeral it was extremely traumatizing. There is what I consider a very major scene for me associated with it. That moment, I think, activated a bunch of earlier repressed memories and feelings and I got no help from anyone; and I especially needed it from my father. It comes to mind with any talk about funerals. It was a terrible event for me. In fact the feeling starts to come up just writing about it here.
    I probably would have been better off not going to her funeral; although I’m not sure about that.
    Maybe I needed to witness all that but with the proper help.

    • Larry says:

      That sounds like a very traumatic experience Phil. I was in my late teens when I went to my first funeral. It was my favourite uncle’s. It was open casket. Being raised on a farm I was not unused to seeing dead animals. I remember as a child feeling bewildered by their lifeless body and the deadness in their eyes. But seeing my first dead person that way, my uncle, was very disturbing. On the way home from the funeral and for a while after we kids were quiet and a little bit in shock. My youngest sister looked ashen. There was no talking about it, no expression of feelings. I don’t remember knowing what I felt. I can only imagine how horrible it would have been for you, a young child all alone, to witness your mother’s funeral and not receive support and reassurance from the adults caring for you.

      • Phil says:

        I saw my mother dead first at her wake. At the funeral it was also open casket and I remember her being there right in front of me. It was a terrible ordeal. As I said, there was no one to help me. I felt stuck with an awful, shock like, feeling in my body. I needed to get out of there but couldn’t move.

        • Larry says:

          Someone should have been sensitive to your feelings and helped you, Phil.

          No one ever watched out for our feelings.

          Writing this is bringing up an important memory for me. In grade school I went to a one room rural school house. We were 32 kids in grades 1 to 8 and one teacher. She was a cranky old spinster who lived alone on the property. She yelled at and hit kids a lot. When I was in grade 1 a public health nurse came to our school to give us an immunization shot for small pox or polia…a needle in the upper arm. I remember standing in line as told, frightened, getting the needle in my arm and crying on the way back to my desk, same as the other grade 1’s. The teacher instructed the grade 8 girls to sit with us to give us a feeling of safety and comfort to quell our crying. She did at least have some sense of tending to our feelings. I don’t remember the pain from the needle so much as feeling afraid, alone and unsafe. But what really sticks out in my memory as if I could be right back there with the snap of my fingers is the feeling of safety and caring from the older girl sitting beside me in my desk to comfort me. I seem to recall that her being there loosened the crying even more while I experienced for what seemed the first time the intuitive rightness of the feeling of intuitive maternal care from her but I had to block out close-to-awareness that this was something I never got at home.

          It is hard for me to imagine how horrible for Chris to never have needs met, or for you Phil to be so entirely ignored by your mother. At least in how she fed, cleaned and clothed us I got some feeling that my Mom cared, but she was oblivious to our feelings, except she liked to see us happy of course. Socially all of my siblings present a happy smiling demeanour, except me.

          Sorry for rambling. I just felt important for me to write.

          • Phil says:

            I like your rambling and was able to visualize that scene at the school you described.
            There are some similar incidents which stand out in my memory because of unexpected kindness I received in contrast to what was going on at home.

  103. Margaret says:

    it must have been unimaginably difficult with noone to comfort and support you there.
    such a lonely situation to even imagine, and probably very scary.

  104. Margaret says:

    Jack, wow, my mind had already deleted that part you quoted, indeed way over the top and out of place.

  105. Margaret says:

    I imagine Trump did not expect that much criticism from giants like Facebook, Google and Apple etc.
    heard the big boss of Google is an immigrant and Steve Jobbs is the son of a Syrian immigrant….
    and starbucks promised worldwide to engage 10000 refugee employees as a statement against Trumps decisions…

  106. Chris P says:

    I appreciate all of the help and support from you guys especially Jack, Margaret, and Phil.

    I am still on the fence about whether or not I will go to the funeral, but mostly leaning towards not going. I agree with Phil and Margaret who said that the funeral is not really for the person who died, but for the living to grieve and deal with their feelings, etc. If I went, there would really be only one reason: to see my older sister. And I guess some other family and friends to an extent too.

    But I do not really want to go. I want to catch up on my sleep until the semester starts next week. I want to enjoy this beautiful summer-like weather we are having here in LA. I want to be here in groups and to be around my true friends and my primal family.

    And I kind of resent the fact that since she has died, that means that I have to drop what I am doing to go there for her. Well, she is dead now so what does it matter? She has never done a thing but harm me. So fuck you, I do not want to go. So, if the funeral was in LA or maybe even San Francisco, I might just go for the heck of it. But the fact that I have to go to all of the expense and trouble to get back there, I do not want to do it. Fuck her.

    Jack is right, he knows the utter wasteland of terror and pain that is my childhood more than anyone. And he has, like most of my friends, has just been a sounding board and open to me going or not. He knows how much he means to me.

    It is ironic one of the reasons I have such a hard time flying is all of the terror of dying I have in me from her. She never protected me or comforted me at my most vulnerable times. Never. She treated me like an annoyance and ignored my soul, my humanity, my cries of need. Now I feel the helplessness and the lack of being in control and it is beyond terrifying.

    Maybe at the end of the week I will take a drive out to Joshua Tree or something like that to kind of have my own ritual. I do not need to say goodbye to this creature called “mother”. I never had a relationship with her. So goodbye to what? I had been on the losing end of needing a mean-spirited and cold human being my whole life. Now I do not need her and can only feel bad at how utterly unlucky I was to have been born to her. And aside from two weeks ago—when she begged me for absolution—I hadn’t spoken to her in years and have really moved on and have been trying to work through all the pain and terror that she fucking caused me. In a sense I have been grieving her loss for a long time now in therapy.

  107. Leslie says:

    Chris – you will know what works best for you.
    I have never regretted not being at my Dad’s funeral. There had been a lifetime for him to get to know me, love me and be there for me and it never happened…
    Take the time you need to decide.

  108. I completely agree Leslie. Though we would support going should it help with the process of grieving ( which is really what funerals are for in a sense) there are many exceptions . Only the individual can know what the best decision might be. No need to blame the victim. In the meantime Chris… go ahead and be a ” crybaby”. What better time than now? I have a great deal of respect for all the crybabies on this blog! 😭In fact ” The Crybabies” might be a good slogan for our next Retreat tee shirt! Gretch

  109. miguel says:

    Phil I agree with you that D: Trump makes us afraid, I say that I do not like him, I find it unpresentable, but as Bernie Sanders says , he is the end result of the lies the dictatorship of political correctness . Being real means for me rejecting political correctness as a hypocritical one a big lie and enemy of the open society and democracy and freedom of expression.

    Axel Kaiser wrote in the CATO.ORG a very good article,

    Axel Kaiser notices how the political correctness contributes to figures like Donald Trump continue to emerge….Do you feel you can not criticize Islam without being attacked as an Islamophobe? Do you think that multiculturalism is nonsense when there are human groups that clearly reject the values on which the open society is founded, but neither can it say it without being brought in with Hitler? Was he glad for the Brexit but did not express it so they would not be accused of falling into populism? If all or any of these things have happened to you then you fully understand why Donald Trump was elected…..True, his rhetoric combined aggressive populist elements with an authoritarian style. It is also true that in many ways the now president of the United States is unpresentable. But no one can deny that his choice was, to a large extent, the finger that raised the masses to the ideological agenda imposed by a good part of the intellectual, social and political elites of the United States.

    This agenda has led the West to progressively sacrifice one of its most precious assets, freedom of expression, on the grounds that nothing can be said that is offensive to any group, especially if it is a minority. This phenomenon is known as political correctness and its maximum cradle are the Anglo-Saxon universities, although, incidentally, those of the rest of our hemisphere are rapidly spreading.

    One of the hallmarks of this new intellectual sectarianism, which Trump shattered, is the emergence of true cops of thought in media, universities, and social networks. The repression that is exercised is so brutal that even many teachers of reasonable left have been their victims. It was the case of the famous social psychologist Jonathan Haidt, a professor at New York University,…… When Bernie Sanders, perhaps the most socialist presidential candidate in American history, said that the obsession with politically correct had brought Trump to power, was referring precisely to that illiberal deviation that is part of the intellectual, political and journalistic elite Has endorsed fanatically.

    It does not take too much common sense to understand that burning someone at the bonfire of social networks and the media to a different vision, far from making him change his mind, will silence him, but it will generate frustration and anger. Trump channeled that anger…

    The same is true of the contempt that global elites show for the daily problems of ordinary people. The truth is that they do not care much about how many sexes there are legally recognized nor the self-flushing speech about the ancestral guilt of the white man for almost everything bad that has happened in the world. They care about having a job, safety, education for their children and a society in which their values are not constantly disqualified by opinion leaders, artists and political figures who stand in judges of what is right to giver an opinion and think.


    • Jack says:

      Miguel: I read your comment with great interest; but there are a couple of things I disagree with. I do not see the purpose of what is deemed “politically correct” Politics and political parties ARE, to me, THE PROBLEM.

      Trump did not win the election and held the minority vote in this last election. What he won was one of two of the greatest flaws in the United States constitution. The first was a major flaw was the adaptation of the “Electoral Collage” which was meant to give those first 13 states some say in the election of a Presidents. Without that clause there is a good chance there would never have been a union.

      The second was the 2nd amendment that permitted the original colonials to posses and own a gun … for no better purpose (psychologically) than if the Native Americans came back with their bows and arrows, the then, colonials could shoot them with a more deadly and better weapon.

      It’s a very flawed document; as opposed to the propaganda that surrounds the population of the United States. It is not the greatest nation on earth; just as the British nation was never the great nation that Margaret Thatcher; before she went totally demented, as did her buddy, Ronald Reagan; after gaining the Prime-minister-ship of the British Parliament.

      It is why I proposed that “MONEY” was the greatest problem for us humans. But and a major “BUT” it takes a great deal of feeling to get beyond that, that we humans have become accustomed to; in order to maintain “CONTROL” … of the ‘other guy’. A guy, that in all my years I have yet to meet.


  110. Phil says:

    I may try to read, with some difficulty, the link you shared later on. In this country it is mostly liberals accused of political correctness, but Trump beat all those other republican party candidates in the primary process. Trump destroys political correctness with his lies.
    I can agree where you spoke of “the contempt the global elites show for the daily problems of ordinary people”. That’s maybe why people chose Trump, but I don’t think he will give any satisfaction to his voters. He is another global elite himself.
    I’m afraid much of the population votes against their own interests and is not well informed on government or politics. Trump conned a lot of people. The population here is almost equally divided between liberals and conservatives. It is not that unexpected that a republican could win after eight years of Obama.

    Criticizing Islam is unlikely to be helpful for dealing with terrorism. It’s better to respect it as a world religion with many peaceful members. Maybe some of the political correctness goes too far ,such as the transgender bathroom issue. An important issue for a small number of people and doesn’t need to be such a huge story in the news. Something Bernie Sanders was talking about. But many other times I see political correctness as serving a useful purpose.

    • Phil says:

      Related to all this is a story I saw today about the Boy Scouts allowing transgender boys to join. If you don’t know, the Boy Scouts is an organization around for a long time run by men, for boys, to go camping and to enjoy other fun and educational activities.
      My point is in the comment section of the article I read some of the reactions I saw were extreme. They say things like; it’s another sign that the country is being ruined and going to hell. It’s the end of God and Christian values in this country and stuff like that. Gays and transgender rights are the end of the world. Just amazing the reactions., and so many of them over a seemingly minor issue.
      There are just so many people very resistant to change and unable to relate to and respect differences. Political correctness addresses some of this.

  111. Otto Codingian says:

    Some good moments on cnn townhall with people asking questions of nancy pelosi. i have been no fan of pelosi, but still, turn it on if you can.

  112. Phil says:

    Snow today, but not enough to give me a snow day. Schools only open two hours, my wife had an easy day.
    Trump nominated a qualified but conservative supreme court judge. Very frustrating as the democrats can’t block that.

    I laid down to rest and felt like I would have memories coming up, Eventually I went outside to my car and to shovel the small amount of snow. Feelings came up about my mother, wanting a hug from her. I don’t remember ever getting a hug from her or being picked up.. So physically deprived. Such a cold family. Feelings of deep need for that.
    Tonight I was in my head hoping for some memories to come out, but I’m physically so blocked, and it’s maybe because it was hugs I needed and didn’t get. Some vague memory of my mother with that. So a memory did come up, just not what I expected, Painful but feels like good progress.
    Another feeling more familiar, I was left in the hospital alone at age 3. A visit from someone once a day, but no hug, nothing. I felt desperate being left on my own there.


    • Larry says:

      Holy smoke I bet you surely did feel desperate, being left there alone. I can easily imagine it and how awful it would feel for you at only 3 years old. I was left in an oxygen tent in hospital for a week when I was 11 months old, after I was found having trouble breathing and turning blue at home. I don’t let myself have any memory or feeling about that time, but I expect it drives a lot of my fearful feeling now of being abandoned and alone.

      • Phil says:

        My being abandoned like that in the hospital correlates with other such incidents which happened right at home. So there was a pattern, but hospital procedures don’t help matters. From what I remember hearing, you experienced a similar pattern. I’m sure you’ll get to the memories and feelings about that hospital stay when you are ready.

  113. miguel says:

    What a terrible feeling they abandoned you with three years.

    Related to political correctness is that in Anglo-Saxon universities they want to tell people how they have to behave, what values they have to have, that is, and using the Janovian methodology, to want to impose with the cognitive brain (ideology of the politically correct) Something that corresponds to the emotional brain: values, feelings,. Naturally wanting to live with slogans is not good and has been a terrible failure. If we humans are able to live with our feelings, we will be more human and we will not need any political correctness. We will let others express their opinions, values on issues such as immigration, gender ideology, capitalism, communism, etc. As we want ours to be respected. All within reasonable limits, neither with violence or hatred.

    I think the Primal Institute blog is a good example of that. I cannot imagine doing primal therapy with prior censorship. Telling the therapist to see if I’m going to express something goes against some minority if I’m going to offend someone. I’ll see if it’s politically correct, see if Hollywood artists approve. It would not work.

    iewed from the Anglo-Saxon universities, the cradle of the politically correct, it is no wonder that primal therapy has not entered these and other university students. Among their curricular agendas is not knowledge, but politics. And they are so exprensive.


    • Phil says:

      I’m happy to say that I printed that article and was able to understand most of it without translation.
      I can agree with much of it. I’m afraid many of our politicians and experts deal in statistical truths which ignore the realities of individuals. Globalization, it is claimed, has lifted millions out of poverty around the world, but what has it done for you or me? In our recent election the Hillary Clinton campaign ignored people living in rural areas. In Pennsylvania, a crucial state, she had many rallies in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, and I think mostly ignored the rest of the state. She needed a message better addressing the concerns of those people. It’s true that all that promotion from celebrities probably wasn’t helpful.
      It is true that universities are centers of political correctness and left wing thought. But nowadays there are counterbalancing centers of conservative non-politically correct thinking. Universities certainly don’t have all the answers. Primal therapy isn’t taught there and won’t be any time soon. Each politically correct idea has to be evaluated as to it’s merits. If we did that, I think we would agree on many things.
      I wonder how many of us have undergone a change in core beliefs and thinking because of therapy. I can identify changes mostly at the personal level. How I deal and think about other people and myself. I have a better understanding of things based on my progress with the therapy which gives me insights in a general way as well.
      My beliefs on politics, religion, and many other things haven’t changed much. It could be that is still to come. Maybe at the most I’ve become softer, more tolerant, and flexible
      I tend to believe that you and I are actually not far apart in our thinking.

  114. miguel says:

    Jack you are a very intelligent person and I understand your point of view, it were so easy to erase all ills in the word at once , but I do not think that it happens that way that easy. As an idealist point of view it is OK but I do not think that suppressing money is the solution to all ills. This concept sounds like Marxism and has already failed. I imagine that would be communism and it would have to be forcefully imposed.

    Communism has been a failure, a minority of criminals under Lenin took power and imposed the law of the strongest in 1917, a hundred years ago in Russia. It has caused a hundred million deaths. A massacre comparable to the Holocaust and even worse. Do not forget that Castro’s communist regime imprisoned, persecuted, reeducated thousands and thousands of homosexuals.

    If you have any doubts, read the Archipelago Gulag by Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

    A good person like Gorbachov a convinced Marxist-Leninist, tried to sustain communism without violence. Look what happened, people do not want communism.

    In any case, communism failed, economically, militarily, took root in many universities, and the result of this is the ideology of the politically correct. The enemy of socialism is not capitalism but communism.

    • Jack says:

      Miguel: I am not a fan of Carl Marx or of communism. Carl Marx was a brilliant man of socialism (delineating the social aspect of us humans) Therein was his genius and only that aspect of him), BUT and it is a huge ‘but’ for me. He made the mistake of teaching, preaching just how it ought to come about. No-on (not one single person can know HOW to bring it about. It has to collectively EVOLVE.
      I am not sure if you fully understand the NATURE of letting something evolve. No-on devised the development of us humans, or any other species. It’s a matter of letting the nature take it’s own very course. Permit me dwell on just that very matter for the moment. There are many; and the very nature of politics and politicians, are intent on doing the very opposite of letting it evolve. Said another way “let it happen’. (The mantra of F. M. Alexander, of the Alexander technique). Even in the field of medicine the practitioners are not ready to “let it happen”. By letting it happen in the medical sense it to PERMIT THE BODY TO HEAL ITSELF. To often doctors in their ‘assumed’ wisdom presume that we have to control the body in order to make it “well and normal by their definition, that they learned in medical school. Primal theory (as I see it) it letting the very natural feeling most of us were born with, “allow to happen” … instead of very confused (and made neurotic in their own childhoods); parents, constantly telling children how to behave. (something you touched on in your comment).

      Last point:- IF you are prepared to give it some (I would hope, very considerable) thought.
      Money was yet another of one of those contrivances that was created (YES CREATED) for a very nefarious reason … ‘CONTROL’. It is the very control that we all seem to think is the only way to go. It isn’t … should you indulge the consideration I have just asked of you. Stop all forms of ‘controlling’ … especially of little vulnerable children that for the most part have their very own bodies and feeling intact. If we can invent it (MONEY THAT IS) we surely can abolish it.
      The MANNER in which to un-invent it, should be by a method that was first, as far as I know, coined by Marx. “Once a critical mass of the people see, and understand that money was a creation by us humans and that having done so has created (to coin another phrase) had the most devastating UNINTENDED consequences; on us humans ….yet we accept it. The very acceptance is a product of our neurosis.

      I hope that explains me, a little more clearly Miguel.


      P. S. Stop telling me I am “a very intelligent person … I am not. I’m just as fucked-up as the rest of you. OR, as I was once told “your intelligence is your biggest defense”. I agreed.


  115. Phil says:

    the words hysterically screaming made me think how ironical it is the word comes from the Greek word for ‘womb’. that kind of emotional states were thought to be caused by the womb, if I remember well even by the womb socalledly moving around in the body or something.

  116. Phil says:

    it is so sad to read about all the people never or hardly ever having been hugged.
    at least my mom did, my dad hardly ever..
    yesterday she was a little ill, more silent than otherwise.
    I gave and got from her a big hug, and we went to the cafetaria briefly but she went back to rest on her bed soon.
    I sat with her on her bed, and it felt cosy as I was sitting in the curl between her knees and belly.
    she is very sweet and affectionate these days.
    it was reassuring I had a good talk with her caretakers about some medication issues, they were very cooperative and friendly and reassuring, and promised to keep a good eye on her. they al seem to have grown fond of her.
    I don’t want to lose her….

  117. Margaret says:

    Phil was me, smiley, M

  118. Margaret says:

    My previous two comments were actually written by Margaret.
    Sorry Margaret!

  119. Margaret says:

    called my mom and called my brother, they both have a strong cold.
    i became very aware of how nice it is we can be so nice with each other, we all got so much closer these days.
    or it is mostly me I feel, being more able to trust and show tenderness.
    it was such a simple but genuine pleasure to call them, ask them how they are etc,, and to be there for them and enjoy the response and kindness reciprocated.
    i think it is the situation of having to take intense care of our mom’s situation and the awareness of life not going on forever, a mixed blessing of sadness and tenderness.
    we all need someone to love, even if it is an animal, and to be loved by is even better if possible.
    am in a bit of a ‘marshmeallow mood kind of, but enjoy it as it feels like a moment of peace , an oasis of rest in between all the hassles and anxieties of other moments and challenges.
    cats fed, chores done, place warm, about to watch the evening news and the latest Trump sequels…
    wish you all some tenderness in your lives, even a tiny bit of it makes it all worthwhile.
    and I become more and more aware how giving it is the secret, to be kind is a joy, when it can occur.
    sorry, am probably a bit tired and dreamy.
    but so what, much better than to feel angry and upset , enjoying the peace while it lasts..

  120. Margaret says:

    I feel a bit uneasy having talked so much about some good stuff I can still get from my mom, while so many here were talking about what they did not get.
    sorry if I hurt someone with my timing..

    • Larry says:

      You didn’t hurt me, Margaret. I say enjoy what you can with your mother while you can. It won’t last forever. We do our best to make the most out of what we can, while we can. That is all our life is, for each of us.

      Following your line of reasoning (defense ?), we should all stop writing about enjoying sight so as to be sure to not hurt you.

  121. Phil says:

    I’m fine with what you said about getting good stuff from your mother. I can’t relate to that, a common occurrence for me, as many people still have their mothers, but I hardly had one at all.

  122. Margaret says:

    mom’s boyfriend sounded worried on the phone about my mom.
    he said she hardly could hear a word of what he said to her, in the cafetaria, and this time did not know what she was supposed to do with the scrabble game.
    usually with a little help he says she still manages to play it with him, but this time not.
    also her walking is slow with tiny little shuffling steps.
    i worried about that on tuesday, thinking they might have made mistakes with the medication, but when I checked that was ok, and when I told her to try and step with larger strides she could do it.
    so I reassured him, saying I agreed with the nurses she is merely fighting the cold she caught, and is simply tired and a bit physically beat down.
    she sounded ok mentally, apart from being more silent, when I talked with her, and seemed overall sleepy and maybe with a slight fever.
    but of course after reassuring the boyfriend I end up feeling slightly more worried now….
    he seemed to be afraid she would not regain her capacities..
    in any case I am arranging for the group walk there, next thursday, with the company of a girlfriend I have not seen for a year, and her little white Cairn terrier.
    hopefully mom will be better by then, hopefully the weather will cooperate, and hopefully my own cold will be over..
    not much else we can do than deal at best with life as it presents itself, with joy and sadness, frustration and hope. one thing we can do is to do our best to be warm and gentle with others.
    one great religious phrase I like is we should all treat others in the way we want them to treat us. I find that such wise advice that sums up so much of all the struggles with their simple solution.
    it is a sad thing most religions have that value in common but it all has ended mixed up in power struggles and how to call that concept ‘god’, or better said, that construct.
    but anyway, gettting softer in my older age, smiley, though I discovered last summmer I can still be angry if necessary, to my pleasant surprise..
    wish I could also have made up then, but that seemed beyond possible at that stage, and maybe for good.
    too bad, but things have to go both ways, no bending over backwards for friendship anymore.
    sorry, must be my cold making me talk to myself here, smiley..

  123. Margaret says:

    just heard an interesting item on the radio.
    a digital form has been signed by 14000 psychologists and psychiatrists about Donald Trump being a dangerous narcissist.
    there was one of them interviewed, and he said the symptoms are so clear and so many that diagnoses can be given without a personal examination.
    he is the typical schooolyard bully, he said.
    asked about a few examples, he mentioned immediately offending anyone who disagrees or criticizes, like the phone call with the Australian premier where Trump seemingly threw the phone on the hook, angry about a former agreement that the premier would not immediately cancel.
    these kind of narcissists have a blind spot for their own narcissism, and are usually brought in contact with therapy through their partners.
    they need to be given reality checks and not to let them abuse people, the only way to deal with them, or to be ignored.
    in this case, their opinion, of the group of psychologists and psychiatrists, it is very dangerous Trump surrounds himself with people that will keep applauding him, and there seems to be a real risk that he might use nuclear power when for instance North Korea would be somewhat provocative by continuing its test programs.
    they want him off the presidential position as soon as possible, and will keep trying to influence the republican party to take steps to replace him.
    all of this seems to start going beyond just being ludicrous and possibly worrisome..
    all kinds of instabilities might start occurring, my own fear, like Putin is already starting some fights again in Ukraine.
    and all those peaceful muslims which are now swiped into one big pile of ‘evil’ and denied entry or even reentry , it seems a possible feeding ground for more extremism.
    Trump sometimes starts to sound tired, and if he gets under too much strain heaven knows how he will react….
    he seems to have no respect for what has been built up over decades of diplomatic and political work, and seems able to destroy just for the sake of putting himself in the spotlights and asserting himself.
    isn’t it striking with all this still the term ‘schoolyard bully’ covers so much and is so telling?
    sadly enough this one can cause so much devastation ..

    • Phil says:

      Trump as president has been very worrisome to me from the beginning. He should be removed from power as soon as possible. Also worrisome is that his chief political strategist, Steve Bannon, is a white supremacist who wants to destroy the system. I will feel more secure, but not happy, to have the Vice President, Mike Pence, move up to president as I think he is a much more reliable person. Trump is a danger to the whole world.

    • errona says:

      Margaret, it was the Australian Prime Minister Trump attempted to dress down. Premiers are state leaders in Australia, the Prime Minister is the national leader.

      There is much talk in Australia these days about the benefits to us of the US alliance. Personally, I would be very happy for Australia to go its own way as an independent nation. Getting very tired of being dragged into questionable wars in the name of an alliance that costs an awful lot of money on military hardware for fighting wars in foreign lands, without bringing any tangible benefits that I can see. Time for my country to grow up and stand on its own two feet.


  124. Margaret says:

    Phil, wow, the more I hear the more worrisome it gets..

  125. Phil says:

    Margaret, I just saw a poll that 4 out 10 Americans are in favor of impeaching Trump; amazing numbers for a new president. A large scandal of some kind has to come to light for impeachment and I hope the press is busy looking for one. I don’t think he’s adequately untangled his business interests conflicting with his new job as president, for example.

    • Jack says:

      Margaret and Phil: This hallibolu about Trump is a perfect example of what happens when one single person is given that amount of power. It not only applies to Trump, but has been going on for eons, all down time, in our known history. Never getting down to that time, as I see it, when we humans BECAME neurotic.

      Just impeaching Trump will not actually solve the major problem; for again as I see it, Mike Pence is as bad if not worse than Trump. It then becomes what has sometimes been referred to as “a Constitutional Crisis”
      The problem with written constitutions is:- that they, by definition, are ‘super laws’ that prevent real sensible legislation:- in the here and now; to take place. In the case of the American Constitution there are are four initial problems: again, as I (me Jack) see them.
      1) It was written with so many in a group of neurotics that were looking towards an ideal future nation. NO nation could ever exist and they were hoping to create; by what is common called their “crystal balls’ not necessarily, (from a psychological perspective of humanity), into any reality of a future.
      2) the number of permutations required to get 13 states to agree on one document in order to form a union was and is beyond a group of merely 13 + MEN to come up with a document that is in the first instance, is:- VERY hard to alter, amend, change, OR what you will.
      3) Hence the “Electoral Collage” is one of the prime examples; where, as it points out that The US of A, is not in effect a democratic country … if the one with the least number of the popular votes, gets to become the president.
      4) The introduction of the 2nd amendment giving the population, the chance to buy arms (armament … how about atomic bombs?) when, as I’ve stated before, it was a subliminal measure to give to the then colonials; whole stole land from the than Native Americans (who were only armed with bows and arrows), a superior weapon to make sure they did not take back their land.

      There was a great comment by a black student (last night on the PBS News Hour) at Harvard, studding black history and the divergence of wealth in this country; doust any credibility on the so called ‘Founding Fathers’ each of which owned black men, women and children, as slaves. NOT by anyone’s sense of decency could they be considered ‘ethical’, ‘good’, or decent humans … from any real standard of decency.

      It’s ALL a fraud. So just once more … to promote MY thinking on the matter. Abolish that one single factor:- that glues this whole ‘neurotic mess’ in place. I need not tell anyone on this blog what that GLUE is.


      • Jack says:

        Umpety Trump-ety, sat on a Wall (street)
        Umperty Trump-ety had a great fall (streak)
        All the kind horses, and all the kind (wo)men,
        Could’nt put Trump-ity, back together again.


      • Phil says:

        I agree that the constitution is very problematic. One of the few things I liked about George W Bush was when he said the constitution is just a piece of paper. The system is badly in need of updating and reform. If we had a democracy, idiot Trump wouldn’t have been elected. It’s a sad situation and I’ve been spending too much time following it.

  126. Otto Codingian says:

    I am thrilled listening to all the news commentators since mr. trump began his charge of the light brigade 2 weeks ago. all the news commentators are having the times of their lives. important shit going on here. hope it works out. i just keep seeing nuclear bombs going off in my dreams. yes, my glass-view is empty. good night. i made it thru the week. mr. obama, while beloved by 1/2 of the country, did not do a good enough deal for the trump supporters when he was in office. though how could he, being that the old conservative white boy crew in the nation did not give him any support. nasty-ass people being stupid. why the fuck cant people work together? what the hell can i say. i have my job, and i made it thru the week. then there is next week. the only sex there will be is, well never mind. my hip hurts less than it did 3 days ago and same for the horrible cold i have had. all those muslims at the airports have had a rough time, rougher than mine. mr. trump is in a hurry. fucking gemini, smooth-talking lying bitch. just like some or most of the rest of us. just babbling on for no reason whatsoever since i will be too exhausted to go scream it out at the pi tomorrow, same as last week, same as next week. and soon i will be in an urn on the mantle, with the rest of the dogs and cats. just rambling on, pay no attention to me. my joy gone long long ago.

  127. Margaret says:

    Erron, ok, thanks, here in Belgium we call our prime minister the premier, as there is only the king as a protocollair someone ‘above’ him, but he is more restrained than anything by the premier and the parliament.
    and hurray hurray for that judge in Seattle!!!
    Trump must be fuming haha, and all his troop with him, well, in a way it is not a pleasant idea to imagine them fuming too much as long as they are still so near the longs of all that explosive stuff..
    but Ug was right a while ago, it does make the news very entertaining..

  128. Margaret says:

    I had a very intense dream last night about being in a car with my mom.
    an old small car like the one we used to have.
    we were right in front of a very deep abyss. not one of the dark repulsive kind , the landscape down there seemed nice, but the scary bit it was that it was over a mile below us.
    the engine was off, but suddenly the car started rolling slowly to the edge. I frantically tried pushing down the brake, or pulling the handbrake, to no avail, and I knew I could not make it in time anyway, and then it happened. we fell over the edge of the cliff and started falling down.
    as it was so deep we did have time, and after an initial rush of fear to end there still alive with broken bones, it kind of felt reassuring it would be high enough to be sure it would be a final kind of landing.
    we looked at each other, my mom and me, knowing the end was definitely near, and she seemed calm and together, and simply said goodbye and kissed me..
    it felt like the only right thing to do, and quite intimate in a way.
    upon waking up it felt still so real I kind of expected to receive a call from the home but luckily that did not happen..
    feels like an ok dream, about facing the worst together in a peaceful way..

  129. Otto Codingian says:

    I feel horrible. all i can do is say that. i am too exhausted after 6 days at work to drag myself to pi just to use the room. i feel too stupid to just use the room. i would be too exhausted to go to group even if i could afford it. i would sit in group, exhausted, to exhausted to say a word, and feel miserable afterwards for saying nothing because of my exhaustion. black thoughts constantly invade my mind. woke up from nap exhausted from eating sugar, some dream of my grandmother. because i had watched some video of chimp mother and child maybe. happy baby chimp with its mother. my grandmother probably wasnt a horrible person but she had nothing much emotional or nuturing to give me. it’s cold, i am freezing the fucking dryer and washer don’t work, i am bored, i am sick to death of living my last days like this but i am trapped. i cant get out of this fucking rut.

  130. Otto Codingian says:

    i am supposed to congratulate the kid in champagne for his aa birthday. i have not a goddamn motherfucking thing left to give. yes i am a big fucking asshole. leave me the fuck alone. jesus fucking christ.

  131. Otto Codingian says:

    did i say i am fucking freezing. the heater died 2 weeks ago. fuck this shit.

  132. Otto Codingian says:

    fucking gardener is blaring his leaf blower under my bedroom window which is making the dog bark incessantly. gardener is doing it so i will pay him. i am too exhausted to write out the check or take it outside to him. i am trapped, i am cold. i dont want to move. i will be ok once it is dark, then i can drive to the store for food. i am not hungry but i need food to kill the pain. crazy.

  133. Otto Codingian says:


  134. Otto Codingian says:

    Actually that was a trick. Sorry, not the full real commercial. some stupid asshole hijacked it. anyway, you can see it tomorrow probably.

  135. Otto Codingian says:

    anyway some funnies in case you need cheered up. old superbowl ads.

  136. Sylvia says:

    Thanks for the superbowl commercial videos Otto. Laughed at the Skittles candy one where boyfriend throwing candy at girls second story window and her family lining up to catch them in their mouths.

    Also fun to see Peter Fonda again in tribute to his movie (was it Easy rider or the wild ones, can’t remember) where he interacts a little with a brawling bar of surprised bikers.

    Don’t have to watch the football game now, though may do it a bit.

    Hope you feel better Otto. Eating good fruit can also take the pain away without feeling guilt about eating it–though not quite as tasty as some pastries.
    Take it easy….

  137. Otto Codingian says:

    Sylvia, that Skittles one really was superb. anyways.

  138. Otto Codingian says:

    The german who comes to america to brew bear commercial gives me tears at end, don’t know why. civility? promise of life succeeding? people who get along?

  139. Otto Codingian says:

    it is friends. i once had friends. i let them slip away.

  140. Otto Codingian says:

    lady gaga singing bad romance. i used to walk an hour before work, down santa monica blvd, listening to that song over and over. full of hope. now? just saying. got to keep saying, you dont have to listen.

  141. Otto Codingian says:

    what do i tell my daughter, why it makes me sad, maybe i already said. i dont have a shred of hope left. beaten bad too many times. ha.

  142. Hey Otto, I sent you an email I want to make sure you received. Do let me know as I might have an older address. 🙂 Gretch

  143. Margaret says:

    yesterday I had a gloomy day, feeling bored and listless, almost hopeless and depressed.
    did manage to do a minimal amount of tten pages of studying, and the necessary chores etc., and some reading but still…
    the good thing is i did finally bring myself to contact the guy from Cabo verde, letting him know the piano had been tuned last friday.
    I cholse to call him instead of the easy way of texting.
    he was in the middle of something but assured me he would finally make those cd’s for me with his piano classes so I could start practicing again on my tuned piano.
    that felt good, at least to have taken some action to improve my social life.
    I can relate to you very much Otto, regretting all those lost friendships and passing to much time on them instead of working on starting new friendships and keeping the present ones alive.
    I set up a plan with an oldtime girlfriend to join a walk with a group of the nursing home with my mom, on thursday, my friend bringing her little dog.
    it is scary in some ways, as it is impredictable how well it will go, but at least another positive attempt.

    so after that gloomy day and going to bed still feeling kind of down, my brain gave me an unexpected treat during the night.
    I had a long detailed dream, in which I was on my own walking the night streets of a busy town, but only pedestrians everywhere, no traffic at all. it was very lively, nice shops, bars, all kind of people, and I walked fast and enjoyed taking it all in.
    I got into conversations, had pastries, meals, got into talking with a sad little girl, to find out she was not so lost but part of a theatre production and about to go on stage in a litttle while, to sing and dance and perform with other kids under the guidance of some people working with well, orphans or problem kids.
    I wanted to go and listen to her when they would start, but other things interfered. I got into more conversations with other strangers, and with some of them really was sad upon having to say goodbye.
    there were splendid shops all around, I saw some shows and low boots I loved, black leather , parts of it shiny black, with extravagant long points both at the back and the front, really spacy, haha!
    got into talking with some of the classy sales women of some of the stores, and told them I loved their stuff but whould buy mine in a cheaper part of town, which they all understood.
    had some hilarious moments as well, really cracking with overwhelming laughter.
    one guy on a terrace drinking with his mates reached out to me begging for some small change, and I just walked on and said ‘are you out of your mind?’, and told someone else, he is there sitting and drinking and I am well, kind of working. that is how it felt, lovely kind of working and being busy, absorbing and observing and interacting.
    then when it was about to go home i met some people I knew, oh yes, almost forgot it was not as if the place was all milk and honey, a few times I was scared my backpack would be stolen when I briefly let it out of sight, but I always found it in time.
    so well, time to prepare to go sleep almost, but we were still in town. I got overwhelmed with some feeling while we were sitting on a curb, and knelt down , the others just checked with me and I said it was ok, I just needed a moment .
    I don’t even remember what the feeling was, think it was some brief sad feeling , but I remember better feeling how ok it was to take my time and be there with my hands and forehead in the gutter really, and allow myself that time and space, and I saw the old dried muck stiking in the gutter, did not even want to htink about what it all could be, and suddenly found it hilarious to feel so good and in the moment that I did not even mind the muck, after all it was old and dry.
    I told my companions and we laughed.
    we went on our way with a brief stop , someone laying the cards or something, and I was happy to be with my friends but realized one of them had been drinking too much. I thought I should adress him about it as it seemed like an occasional relapse as he was in the AA. he seemed to be about to become sick so I pushed him to the other side, did not want his stinking vomit al over me in case, to spoil it all.
    and then I woke up.
    I felt very good, rested and relaxed, after what felt like a great night.
    I am amazed at this kind of dream, so detailed and lively.
    thinking about it, I can imagine it is some kind of incentive to keep trying to go out, move and socialize, even with new people, and to try and feel confident about myself..
    and to feel I am not doing so bad after all, but that at the moment is a hard one, as awake the hopelessness and selfdoubt sets in, like I am getting old, body losing more and more of its attraction, not able to see like I did in the dream…

    but well, I did get some kind of boost out of it anyway, and it is better than having a nightmare for sure!
    so glad to dream so much really.
    I’ll gladly take the nightmares as well.

  144. Margaret says:

    oh yes, and we also peeked into a dance studio, and it was inspiring, I wanted to dance and asked the guy who was walking next to me if he could dance etc.
    there was also someone saying something about getting his gear for a karate training, and I also got the feeling yes, I want to go judo and get my gear as well…
    I guess the dream was about the opposite for feeling beat down and hopeless, maybe my dear brain was giving me some antidote with this dream…

    being more and more for long periods without any codeing painkillers around, is very beneficial really, fysically and mentally.

    not always easy but it seems to go on getting better.

  145. Margaret says:

    ha, Trump said Belgium is a very nice city…
    and Brussels was a hellhole, was his former description.
    he is planning to come over in may to the Navo headquarters to inaugurate the niw building..
    hope this hellhole here gives him a piece of its mind on that visit..
    here in Europe only the ultrahigh wings are in favour of him, which is very telling.
    it is scary as they use him to try to gain more voters…
    specially France, if the urltraright wins the president elections there, they want a Frexit, which would be desastrous for the European community.

  146. Phil says:

    Trump noticed Frederick Douglas, except he hasn’t been around recently.
    “Frederick Douglass is an example of someone who’s done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more, I noticed,”
    He’s got to study up more, it’s black history month.

    • Sylvia says:

      Yeah Phil, Trump when campaigning here in California spotted a Black man in the audience at the small airport-speech, and said: “Look, my African-American, isn’t he great.” Later, on the local news the fellow said he just was interested in what Trump had to say and was a little baffled by all the news attention.

      It must have not been a very memorable Black connection experience for Trump, because in an interview with David Muir Trump said he would have won the popular vote in California but he didn’t campaign there. Go figure.

    • Phil says:

      Patrick, You seem to only look at the world with your anti-Zionism model in mind. All events are made to fit into that framework, It’s like a house of cards. Remove that basic premise at the base and the whole thing falls apart.
      There are only about 14 million Jews in the whole world; less than 0.2% of the total world population. Doesn’t it make you wonder how they are able to control so many things?

      • Patrick says:

        Also Phil I am sure you heard recently how I dunno 8 people have more wealth that 3 billions others. So yes I do believe unfortunately society is like a pyramid just a very few at the top controlling a vast number at the bottom

        • Phil says:

          Patrick, it’s great that you are skeptical and don’t automatically believe mainstream news stories. But it would be good to be skeptical about alternative news and conspiracy theories as well. What is it that makes that information more reliable?

          • Patrick says:

            Thank you Phil. I would say I scrutinize them all as best as i can plus I read books. That to me is important to get something a bit deeper than the headlines of the present day. I think it is a big mistake to just reflexively go for so called ‘alternative’ news.Like Trump now talks about ‘fake news’ which I agree with the trouble is he seems to replace it with even news that is MORE ‘fake’ He complained today that these ‘terror events’ which I consider to be mostly all ‘hoaxes’ are not taken seriously enough and he says there are more that are not even covered. This should be a big clue……………..if it was not clear already these ‘hoaxes’ have a very serious and real agenda why else would they go to so much trouble to pump fake terror into people and Trump is saying it needs to be more. So to me the agenda is clear MORE Israeli sponsored murder and terror in the Middle East creating even more ‘refugees’ that we can cry crocodile tears over and call people “Nazis” who are not on board with this. This is a devilish agenda to me it is not an exaggeration to say that and Trump as the Zionist puppet he is seems to be on board. I would not like to be living in Iran right now their days are numbered unless Putin REALLY stands up against this nonsense.

    • Jack says:

      In the olden days when I felt you were fun to work with, I remember one such occassion you were ‘raling-off’, because Michael Holden had become a ‘Jesus freak’. It seems now you too, have had a conversion and become an ‘Islam/muslim freak’. Have you been going to Mosques recently and done the conversion?????
      I personally, don’t find any religion, to be believable, and that includes Hindus and Buddhists. (not that I ever felt Buddhism was a religion, even though they do have Monasteries and Buddhist Monks. But then that’s just me. If it were, you are talking about Arabs and Arab nations and keeping away from the religious majorities of these ethnic/national groups, that might, I feel, put your thinking into a more ‘rational framework’. As it is; I find your writing are somewhat confusing. What’s the real GRIPE beneath all this writing of yours????? I would have thought you would at least, have investigated some of that.

      On the ethicity front: I personally have said before and I feel it’s worth repeating, I have NO DESIRE to indentify with any group (ethnic or otherwise) I don’t even wish to idendentify with the country, that by pure accident, I was born into. Also; to demonstate my point a little more clearly, I don’t even want to identify with most homosexuals … even though I have, by necessity, to admit that I am homosexual. I am neither ashamed nor am I proud of any of it. It just is … period end.


      • Patrick says:

        Lady GaGa

      • Patrick says:

        And no I have no desire or need to ‘convert’ to anything. Just another of your typical cheap shots rather than address what I am saying. And the funny thing is I know you actually AGREE with me. I went to about 3 meeting with you where you ranted quite strongly about how Israel did not ‘have a right to exist’ What happened to that Jack? Where is he? Of course here you court authority you are a major kiss ass to primal ‘authority’ but you are a fucking hypocrite I happen to know you ‘agree’ with me but you would never know that here because you are a fucking LIAR and a HYPOCRITE and yes a DRAG and a QUEEN a queen of nothing just your hyped up phony identity here. You disgusting hypocrite

        • Patrick says:

          What a

          • Patrick says:

            As to what my real ‘gripe’ is a friend of mind (I do have some of those unlike you) said he thought that “I was attempting to come to terms with my INNER Jew” I like that and I would say it is even true. However the OUTER Jew is I do believe a very real factor in the world so I talk about that. A lot of my ‘inner work’ is private as also I do not feel safe here specifically not safe from you. You WILL pounce and not in a helpful way on whatever I say………………… seems you dad tried to ‘break’ you and you constantly try to break me (that’s how ‘resolved’ you are you hypocrite) but no you cannot break me no matter how hard or long you try. Better go such a dick somewhere you will NOT break me.

        • Jack says:

          Patrick: How come you are not able to drop those defenses and try to understand what it was, Arthur Janov was ACUALLY writing about in this first book that you also saw something into, one way or anonther. You can do all the insulting you like upon me. It just slides off me: “like water off a duck’s back” seemingly you do not see that … OR, for your unstated good reasons, do not wish to address here on this blog.

          Yes; I did feel that the creation of Israel by the UK and and the USA after WWII on Palestinian land was a political mistake, that I feel will haunt both nations and Israel, for a long time. The more grievous of the Isreali action was the the ‘Six Day War’ in 1968 that took even more than they were granted in the very first place. Obama was courageous enough to tell Netenyatu that Israel should return to the 1967 borders. It’s ALL politics and that does not imply that all Israeli Jews are in line with their leaders.

          It seems you think that all Jews are bad guys and all muslins poor badly trodden on. The creation of ‘so called terrorists’ goups is:- as a result of actioins taken by other groups doing a “one-up-man-ship” Get your thinking out of the quagmire; you have put yourself into … which, as I see it, is not serving you well.

          Most of the Israeli Jews I have known; state they are surounded by enemies, Yes, it seems to me that the leaders of Israel are intent on keeping that land gained in the 1968 pre-emptive strike; and pushing for more settlements. As I see it causing IMO more problems for Israel that needs be.

          There is a very simple solution … but again for your very own good reasons, have no desire to even give ANY consideratiion to. So-be-it.


          • Patrick says:

            It seems you are ‘stuck’ around the 1940’s in more ways than one. Anything as recent as 9/11 or later might as well not exist it seems. The word FOSSIL keeps coming to my mind you seem to not experience life much at all just ‘stuck’ in the books you read almost 50 years ago which includes the ‘primal scream’.of course

      • errona says:

        A discussion around Michael Holden and his mental collapse after taking all those drugs to get into the primal zone, would be far more interesting than all this empty far right wing rhetoric. It might also have lessons to be learned about how to do primal therapy?


        • Jack says:

          Erron: I was not aware that Michael Holden had had a drug problem, nor would I consider that his becoming a “Jesus Freak” had to do with a mental problem or mental collapse, especially as you relate:- in order to get into the Primal/feeling zone.

          I would be interested where you got that from. I never read anything to that effect.


          • errona says:

            Jack, I can’t specifically recall whether it was Primal Man – The New Consciousness, or in the primal journals themselves (I’ve just loaned all my copies to someone so I can’t check) but I definitely remember he was experimenting with drugs on himself to get into the “Primal Zone”. At the time I thought it was a bit weird, believing as I did then, that Primal Therapy was all about being ‘Super Natural’. But apparently Art Janov himself these days, sometimes has drugs prescribed for patients who are overloaded, so they can come down into that zone and feel something without it being disintegrative. I’m not sure if he goes the other way, i.e. whether or not he uses uppers on very repressed patients to bring them up into the feeling zone.

            I very well may have misunderstood what Holden was saying, but I am certain there were many occasions when he took drugs (remember, as a medico he supposedly knew what he was doing with respect to type of drug and dosage) in order to facilitate his feeling process. I just wondered later on whether he had overdone it, brought up too much early pain too quickly, and this catapulted him into the last line defence of extreme religious belief. I also found it unconvincing when he claimed he was ‘totally cured’ after around 3 to 4 years of primalling in this manner, another thing that raised my antennae.

            Some years back I made enquiries to the Primal Institute, about Holden’s collapse into fundamentalist Christianity. Vivian Janov seemed to take offence and replied quite defensively about Michael. It seems to be a sore point for many who knew Michael. Obviously, he was a wonderful man, but the fact is he was held up as a poster boy for primal therapy in his day, and then things went very obviously and very badly wrong for him. It would just be nice to know the truth around this.


            • Sylvia says:

              Hello Erron. I too wondered about Dr. Holden’s descent into psychosis. When I googled E. Michael Holden A few years ago there was a transcription of a tape, “Michael Holden, spirituality and Primal”, that he sent to a friend in the IPA. It is still available to read online and may be where you saw it. I recall he spoke of using uppers to get into the “zone.’ He also said that he had strokes when he was a baby. (It has been shown that trauma in infancy and before can cause a fragileness and vulnerability to psychosis.)
              I remember the article he taped as an interesting but sad read.


            • Jack says:

              Erron: I read “Primal Man” (and saw nothing in it that implied a drug use. I did and do read all Janov’s writings, and that includes his blogs. Also, he was the doctor (MD) that examined me before entering therapy after my interview with Vivian. I talked to him at great length during that examination and I really liked the guy and felt he was a great patient, neuro physician, and very pleasant person. He was at the time, the MD for the Institute.

              It was some months later that I discovered that he’d become a “Jesus freak” I am familiar with that belief system from my conscripted army days, when I joined a religeos group “Miss Daniels Soldiers Home” who’s mantra was to “Accept the Lord Jesus Christ as ones Own Personal Saviour”
              At the time I was quite religeos but soon afterwards began to think very deeply about religeon and believing. I soon realized I was an ‘out and out atheist’. Another complicated story.

              When I did eventually hear about his conversion, I also remember that many therapist at the Institute (there were quite a few in those days, 1981). told him it was a deep childhood feeling. However, as I understand it, he remained in that belief system until his death some years later. I also know that Janov was fond of him and paid tribute to him recently, on his blog.

              The drug question has a little more to it, than you imply. He did perscibe, for very severly disturbed patients to take a pain surpressing drugs … (not the feeling elevating drugs that your comment seemed to imply, (Cannibis, Sphylicibin, or LSD etc). These pain surpressing drugs were used on many AND one freind of mine was also percribed the drug. I can’t remember the name.

              That he, Micheal Holden, himself became addicted to the point of being mentally disturbed … is, I feel, misconstruing the whole story. That Is why I asked where you got that information from.

              I hope that puts my feelings on the matter to you Erron.


              • errona says:


                Put your feelings aside for a second and reread my post objectively. At no point did I suggest Holden either took or prescribed or suggested feeling ELEVATING drugs, or feeling DE-ELEVATING drugs. I do recall him making the statements about his own use of drugs to get into what he described as the feeling zone. I don’t recall whether they were uppers or downers.

                How you came to think I was implying the use of things like LSD is beyond me. I also never used or implied the term addiction.

                I stick to my original story: Michael Holden spoke about using drugs on himself to get into feelings, and I wondered if that had something to do with his eventual breakdown. I have no doubt he was a lovely bloke; that’s not the issue.


                • Jack says:

                  Erron: Sorry if you got the impression that I was suggesting that he took the likes of LSD. What I did say was that you post seemed, to me at least, to IMPLY the uppers.

                  I stand corrected.


          • Phil says:

            What Erron said about Michael is what I understood. Check out this interview:


            It seems he developed a pattern of self sessions where he dropped into deep 1st line feelings with the help of very large doses of caffeine and other things. One day Jesus and/or God spoke to him in the middle of his feeling. A spiritual awakening, born again religious conversion, or more like a break with reality is what may have happened.
            Maybe he accessed too much pain all at once, which he couldn’t handle.

            • errona says:

              Thanks Phil, that’s probably the source I’m thinking of.


              • Jack says:

                Erron: After reading the link that Phil posted I have some questions related to that tape of Michael Holden.

                The first being:- we humans have been arond apparently for 100, 000 years. Why did it take God, some 98,000 years before sending us a Messia????

                My take on anthropology is that way before even Abraham of the Jewish faith we humans were worshiping “totem poles” then got into the Gods of sun, wind and rain, Even Abraham was a long time in coming.

                Then of course when the mythical (to my way of thinking) Jesus did arrive he told us we were all sinners. I presume that means bad or even wicked creatures. There is something very anti Primal in that remark. Children are not bad or good they are “just born” … period end.
                The other point he, Holden, dwelt upon was that unless we “accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as our own personal saviour” then we were doomed to get burnt up in the fires of hell. An unlikely assumption by my way of thinking.

                Another of my points:- The bulk of the bible (Old Testament) is Jewish scriptures, and nothing to do with Christianity and actually pre-dates Jesus’ so called arrival (from a ghost that had sex with Mary. Then from what I learned. The New Testament) was 40 years after his crucifixion. And that up until the Gospel of Mark; it was all word of mouth. 40 years is a long long time, for word of mouth reliability. The next two, I was taught, were Luke and Mathew 20 years hence on Mark who’s writings they took mostly from what they knew from Mark and just embellished it. Then the gospel of John, that Michael Holden quoted vociferously was 120 years after the crucifixion.

                To my way of thinking; just another mythical “ideation’ devised for no better reason than to explain (before the recent advent of science) what life and living was all about. Only neurotics need to have a meaning to life. Without trauma there be little reason to figure out why we are here. We just are.


                • errona says:

                  Jack, I had enough religion to last me 100,000 years through my childhood 🙂 I know what it is now, and what drives it in people. That was the gist of what I was getting at in relation to Doctor Holden. I just found it interesting, and a little horrifying, that someone at the very centre of primal development fell for religion. I’m not interested in religious discussions themselves

                  • Jack says:

                    Erron: That cleared up for me, some of what you were saying on the prior post. I think I made my case about religion; but I did have some critique of Holden’s conversion AND as far as I understand, all the therapist at the Insititute at the time, did also.

                    I felt from his article that what he did was something my own brother did when he had a re-living event in his early 20’s before he knew about Primal Therapy. He too interpreted the experience into a spiritual/religious exprerience. Once he knew about Primal therapy he changed his assessment of that event he had had in his 20’s.

                    I feel many none Primal people having re-living events, turn them into a spiritual events. Most notable were Saul of Taurus (later St Paul) as I feel Tomas of Aquinas did also. What was somewhat reprehensible in the case Of Michael Holden was:- that he’d already done a fair amount of therapy, BUT because of the deep an debilitating 1st line pain he was undergoing, was reluctant to go there, and thus he too mentally contrived (not deliberately) but due to the valance of upcoming pain turn it off and hence go with the stated peaceful feeling of God, Jesus and a spirituality. I read it; he was perhaps very overloaded and not ready to go that deeply into it. It acts as very cunning pain killer and to some extent is understandable We none of us, including Art Janov, like pain, and if we can turn it off,, will willingly do so.

                    Least-ways that was my take on Holden’s long essay that only now I have become aware of.


                • Phil says:

                  To me the religious details of this story aren’t what is of interest. It’s that it could happen to someone like Holden and that it had something to do with his therapeutic process. If it had been Islam or Scientology wouldn’t have made it any different.. It’s seems clear that something went wrong with his therapy causing a partial break from reality. That’s kind of what I concluded about this.

                  • Phil says:

                    Another thing, of course, is that Holden had a horrific birth, according to his account,
                    and started primalling before even entering therapy.
                    As I reread it I found it interesting what he said about needing uppers to get to the primal feeling zone.
                    I think I’m a parasympath in Janov’s model.
                    I’m a slow starter in the morning and not at all energetic. For years I depended on quite a lot of coffee to function well. Now I can’t do that as I find it causes acid.
                    I have at most 1/2 cup of coffee now for the whole day. But I have never found that I needed stimulation to get to feelings like sadness and crying. My pulse rate and blood pressure were never on the low side. Maybe Holden was an example of a pure parasympath whereas most of us might be more of a mixture of the two tendencies, or maybe that part of the theory isn’t actually that useful or descriptive.

                  • Jack says:

                    Phil: I agree with that also, but I did feel the need (for whatever is my deeper feelings) that I needed to go through that; otherwise it might have seemed to those that are of a spiritual bent, that I was being more biased than I should be.

                    I do feel however, having read that article of Holden’s that he was very overloaded to a pont that he felt threatened. It is my take on Janov and the current Intitute that in those very early days; going too deep, too quickly is more than likely to cause a great deal of damage. If anything “went wrong” it was just that IMO.

                    In all sympathy, after reading his article, I feel he too was very badly overloaded and terrified he might actually die. I’ve been there and it’s so unutterably devastating (beyond words). That is why many were given Thorazine that Patrick seems to think was something that should never have been prescribed OR so it would seem.

                    What was more tragic was his early death; later. Both from my own experience and sitting for some of my buddies, I see this very clearly. Pushing someone to feel something they are are not ready for; is part of Art’s mantra and for a very good reason, as I see it. It’s exactly why without sufficient training, the understanding in a university, is meaningless under these circumstances.

                    Until one has faced dying in the womb, at birth, or early childhood … no amount of explanations, reading OR whatever constitutes studying, will fill in that gap. It is precisely this where I feel many and that definitely includes Patrick miss the whole therapeutic experience. It’s an experience … not a study at some higher educational facility. OR said another way. It’s not the thinking brain but the deep feeling brain, that most of us got deprived of in early childhood. Hence “neurosis” as defined; and not coined (a la Freud).


                    • Phil says:

                      Jack, I agree Holden was overloaded, having pushed himself using stimulant drugs. Also vulnerable to what happened because of earlier episodes in his history. Forced into a religious conversion as a defense mechanism. It is a very sad story.

            • Jack says:

              Phil: thanks for that link. Until this post of yours I was not aware of it.

              I just spen almost one hour reading it and have some pointers to make that I will reply to with Erron.


              • Erron says:

                Thanks Phil and Jack for these comments/recollections re: Michael Holden. My take on it is also that Michael just pushed himself to deeply too fast, and that his use of drugs to do so was probably a mistake. Of course, hindsight is always 20:20 vision. Many of those involved in the early exploration of x-rays died from overexposure. Cutting-edge research has its risks…


  147. Margaret says:

    ha, the Front National are actually zionists, that’s a good one, outrageous to use one of Trumps favourite words.
    and all those head choppers and mass graves and terrorist atacks just fake, what a relief.

    • Patrick says:


      • Patrick says:

        Gretchen you are such an idiot! This thing you NOW delete was about how a lot of the so called including by you ‘right wing’ are doing the Zionist dirty work for them because their ‘nationalism’ unfortunately boils down to being Islam haters or refugee haters. If you disagree with that fine you can even say ”why” you disagree……………but no you take the low road again the censorship road the locking up for free speech road your tribe has become infamous for. I am thinking of getting you a doll and every-time you squeeze it is shouts out ‘anti semite’ or ‘anti semitism’. There are 2 buttons on the doll. That should serve you and is about the level of your engagement with the subject. And where is the hypocrite who I observed at 3 different meeting shouting out about how Israel did not have a right to exist (I did not feel that way at least at the time and kept quite and was a bit shocked by his performance) where is he now just another dishonest kiss ass a slimy coward who crows with the majority as he sees it. No integrity just a forum for this ass wipe to crow his old and boring tunes

        • Patrick says:

          I am sure Gretchen it would be a lot easier for you to just think “white nationalist = bad and leave it at that. But like a lot of things in life it’s a bit more complicated and I guess you hate the idea that these same ‘bad’ people are actually doing Israel’s dirty work for them. But it goes even beyond that MOST all people and of all stripes left and right in the West are doing the same. So you should be happy all avenues are locked up and controlled but even that is not enough for you you have to ‘censor’ just little old me also. How much ‘control’ do you really need?

        • Jack says:

          Patrick: It is my feeling that the “REAL IDIOT” is Patrick Griffin. All this name calling and blaming when it’s just a deep rooted anger within you that everyone one on here can see clearly, BUT you are blind to. You are not cognicent of what you are feeling. It’s deep rooted, and you seemingly are the last to see it, AND not the current anger of just being deleted. What is so, so egregious about being deleted by someone that OWNS this blog.

          Gretchen can do whatever she likes with the blog … it belongs to her. At Gentle Giant if anyone had questioned your authority … being the owner; I feel you would have fired them instantly (as you did with me on several occasion … then later realized you needed me, so!!!! re-instated me … almost in the same instance) GEEZUS … you are so “UP THE NILE” (in denial … about so much.

          In the early days of the therapy it was said; if more than two stated something about one … that there was an essence of truth in it, AND needed to be looked into. Something, as I see you NEVER DOING. You are so fucking right and the rest of us are so wrong, sheep or blind followers. OR some such insult that at the moment of writing you are able to muster. You are on some “neurotic auto pilot”. Try giving just that … a moment or two of consideration … for you very own well being.


  148. Patrick says:

    I will put my limited experience with Dr Holden. What shocked me and I found out this very soon after coming here is he was putting people on Thorazine very easily it seemed. There was a guy in my starting group seemed to me just a regular guy had a job a girlfriend etc but he was put on Thorazine. I found that very strange, to me coming from a kind of hippy perspective it seemed beyond weird just stupid really.It was also one of the first clues I had that there was a big difference between Dr Janov’s claims and reality. Or a big difference between the primal theory and reality. Something that seems to me to be true to this very day.And something that is or cannot be addressed even here because we have a primal attack dog always sniffing out anything he perceives as heresy.

    • errona says:

      The difference is some of us have an interest in discussing primal theory and therapy, while you have a singular minded interest in attacking it.


      • Patrick says:

        I disagree with you very much about this. Think of me as a ‘reformer’ of primal and God knows it could use ‘reform’ but as I say first off even here you have to get past this crazy attack dog called jack-off. As far as you ‘errona’ you as your name suggests have little clue of what you speak. You never came to the PI I DID and here I was simply stating what I observed first hand. Just a basic fact or observation and it immediately rang alarm bells with me that this thing is not what it is cracked up to be and so it was and IS

        • Erron says:

          Yeah, I’ve read about your experience at the Institute from others here: the Fat Controller sitting apart from everyone else, judging. You’ve come a long way. Not. As for my experience with primal, I’ve stated it before but you seem to think like the big baby you are, that only YOUR experience has validity. Sadder than Holden, who at least contributed much.

          Reformer of primal, at least I got a laugh from that, thanks…


  149. Margaret says:

    well, I am very happy with my mind coming up with these entertaining and useful interactive late night movies!!
    last night again had a treat with a first dream putting me in the middle of some gathering of primal patients, seemingly before a retreat about to start.
    teh atmosphere was relaxed, and people chatted to get to know each other as everybody seemed to be new to each other.
    and well, my personal touch probably , they all were males of about my age, smiley..
    it was nice meeting all these different persomalities,not all equally attractive but definitely interesting.
    the second dream put me on a large old sailing vessel, about to start a trip on the sea and into the jungle on some exploration.
    I remember the sheer joy of already making the ship move by jumping up and down and thinking of the movement on bigger waves and the wind blowing.
    there too all males of my age around…
    in the jungle we found some big bird that refused to back down to anything, standing and defending its ground.
    a mixture seemingly of me liking nature documentaries and the coming sailing holiday and well, the pleasure and hope it brings occasionally getting to know more men of my age, that are single and enjoying the interaction.

  150. So are you a White Nationalist Patrick?? I believe you also described yourself as a National Socialist at one point, is that the case? Since you are so big on honestly then tell us is that how you would identify yourself?

    • Patrick says:

      Gretchen rather than get into some kind of drag out ‘fight’ somebody brought this to my attention. I think this guy Richard Spencer makes an interesting point and he IS routinely ‘condemned’ in the regular (controlled) media as a ‘Fascist’ or a ‘neo Nazi’ or a ‘neo Fascist’ or just a “Nazi’ It might cause you hopefully to think a bit about these issues and get away from just calling me names. Which I see your comment as almost being just a setup to do just that

      • Jack says:

        Patrick: Since you are forever presenting links to others with ideas that seemingly resinate with you. I will present you with another guy that I just saw on PBS this evening. His name is Richard David Wolff and has degrees from various universities. Including Cambridge I believe.

        I doubt you will agree with his and his economic ideas and social living for us humans, but if you were to check him out on the internet and then get back to me. I feel we might be able to get a dialog going. Just a thought.


          • Jack says:

            Patrick” the one phrase you use I find needs a more complete explanation is:- “They are obviously bright, articulate and well informed but they have some glaring example of not seeing the elephant in the room imo.”

            It would be informative if you would explain what you mean by “not seeing elephant in the room” What elephant … in what room????

            Permit me to add something that I wrote about in my first book:- ‘Economics is the study of the money flow in any given society’. However what economist do … from there on in; is attempt to manipulate economics (money) to keep the society IN ORDER. The question I pose is:”- why is it necessary to keep society (the people in it) in order??? It is at this point, I see where so many of our pre-conceived ideas fall apart. Starting with:- ordering children, to the will of the parents.

            This pre-conceived notion then permeates the rest of our thinking carrying it through to the principle of ordering the people in any given society. It is this very point where I feel it all goes (and I use this word very reservedly) ‘awry’. Many try to right it all; starting with politicians; initiated by religion … which to my way of thinking is just another form of control. In the name of righteousness, (ethics).

            I grant the guy is repetitive, but I see his reasoning is that is message is a short one. There’s little else to say IMO, after critiquing “capitalism”.

  151. Vicki B. says:

    This is how expansionism begins.This is what Trump and Putin are up to:

    Exxon Mobil, under Rex Tillerson, brokered a deal with Russia in 2013 to lease over 60 million acres of Russian land to pump oil out of (which is five times as much land as they lease in this country), but all that Russian oil would go through pipelines in the Ukraine, who heavily tax the proceeds, and Ukraine was applying for admission into NATO at the time.

    Putin subsequently invaded Ukraine in 2014, secured the routes to export the oil tax-free by sea, and took control of the port where their Black Sea Naval Fleet is based, by taking the Crimean peninsula from Ukraine by force. This was Hitler style imperialism that broke every international law in the free world.

    After Obama sanctioned Russia for the invasion, Exxon Mobil could only pump oil from approximately 3 of those 60+ million acres. But now Rex Tillerson is soon to be our Secretary of State, and as of today, there’s information circulating that Donald Trump will likely unilaterally remove all sanctions against Russia in the coming days or weeks.

    The Russian government’s oil company, Rosneft, will make half a trillion (500 Billion) dollars from that much untapped oil, all pumped tax-free through Crimea, stolen from Ukraine, now owned by Russia. Putin may have subverted our government just for this deal to go through.

    • Larry says:

      How nefarious if true. It won’t be the first time a political system was subverted for another country’s gain, but I never imagined it would be done to the US.

      If there is another 911 everyone will rally around Trump and he’ll be a shoe-in for 8 years. If I think about that, some of his support base probably does.

    • Phil says:

      Vicki, it seems to all add up. trump seems to like Putin so much, criticizes everyone except him.

  152. Margaret says:

    hey Vicky, nice to read you here again.

    did anyone hear about the latest report from Amnesty International about that prison in Syria? forgot the name, but in the last number of years about 13000 people were tortured and hanged there by Assads people.
    and in an interviw he seemed to almost defend IS when he said they hadn’t killed one Syrian after all, so the (Belgian) attacks on their territories were in Assads eyes illegitimate.
    which is stretching the truth more than a bit really.

    another news item of today mentioned that an increasing part of our Belgian muslim citizens is getting more radical under the influence of Wallabite salafites, forgive me if I messpell, whose views are mainly spread through the social media sponsored by Saoudi Arabia.
    that is scary as those Saudis seem to never be under serious scrutiny and can gain more and more influence as so called ‘allies’.
    all not very uplifting, and today brought also the new Trump signature of the day, about the pipeline arch…

    here 20 percent more people are dying this winter, unstable climate and some nasty viruses causing a lot of nose throat and lung infections…

    full hospitals and waiting lists for crematoria..
    feel still a bit ill myself, and generally unpleasant.

  153. Margaret says:

    called my mom today, and she sounded kind of ok.
    but as I still worried a little because of her being too quiet lately, and walking with small steps, I called her doctor to ask her to possibly give her half the medication she still gets.
    to my great relief the staff there had also warned her mom is too quiet, and she decided already to do so yesterday, so I did not have to struggle about it, on the contrary.
    she also told me mom had a bit of a lack of some vitamins so gets some supplements now, and an extra protector temporarily for her stomach.
    so it feels very good they follow her up very well.
    hope she starts doing better now, though luckily she did not really complain or anything, said she felt ok, but she was simply unusually quiet.
    tomorrow the group walk is planned, with the little dog of my girlfriend as an extra, let’s hoppe it all goes well.
    am still somewhat ill but not too badly.
    no fancy dreaming last night..

  154. Margaret says:

    reading a novel about a pregnant couple and how it was for them to, for the first time, see the tiny spot on the screen of the echoscopy, with the beating heart of their baby.
    it hit me how sad I feel about never having had the desire to have one myself during the years that still was an option.
    it is such an enormous lost part of another posssible reality, a waste, a dead end of my part of the family as my brother also has no kids…
    my halfsister has plenty though, and grandkids and even grand grand, so my dad’s side goes on, but my mom’s and mine and my brother’s does not. he has halfbrothers himself with offspring, but we for some reason never felt the inclination, at least not before it was too late…
    nothing to do about it, kind of feels like a wasted life to some degree, ha, no genes passed on etc.
    and the missed magic of one’s own child, all the love and excitement of sharing the responsibility to raise it well and safely and happily…


  155. Bill Jones says:

    I wish to contribute some of my experiences with Dr. Holden and thorazine.
    Dr. Holden gave me thorazine in Nov. 1978.
    It greatly damaged my ability to feel feelings. Many years later I visited Dr. Holden at his private practice in Long Beach. He agreed the thorazine damaged me.
    I went off thorazine about April 1980 and assumed my access would return. It didn’t.
    In 1984 I hoped that if one med, thorazine, damaged me, another might help me get my access back. I went to a psychiatrist for meds.
    I’ve been on anti-psychotics and anti-depressants ever since then. The anti-psychotics help to hold down my obsessive thinking, but that’s about all. The anti-psychotics also make me very tired.
    I can’t speak for other people’s meds, but over 35 years later, I still regret taking the thorazine.
    If a med is damaging your access, tell your doctor immediately.

    • Jack says:

      Bill: It has long been my feeling that whenever we get involved in medicine, we are making a “crap shoot” I have held this view since my late youth when I was conscripterd into the Royal Army Medical Corps and had to do ‘anotomy and physiology’. My partner is a Medical Tech and believes in it all … I don’t … much to his chargrin. Whilst I also see that Primal Theory and Therapy is ongoing and developing. I do feel that getting back to what I feel is our REAL HUMAN NATURE is the (only) way to go.

      My mother brought us up on herbs, since we couldn’t afford often to see a doctor. Later after WWII there was a created in the UK, A National Health System that gave access to millions to get health care. However, I personally didn’t see any tangible benefits to the general health of the population.

      I do see doctors from time to time now that my geneeral state of being is detreriating slowly at age 84. I am not happy about going to the hospital to see doctors; as It depresses me to see many people, far younger than me, in what seems, a worse healthy state.

      It is my very strong feeling that the medical profession’s intent on looking at it’s patiens without delving into the history of ourselves. I feel this is very remiss and I don’t see the profession, any time soon, changing it’s methodology.

      Your story is a very sad one and I would like to hope for you, that things could improve. Maybe (just my thought) not within the medical profession. Best you are able through what feelings you are able to feel and express. Hope this post of mine does not ofend you. I do acknoledge that is my feeling … alone.


    • Phil says:

      Bill, such a sad story; so sorry this happened to you.

    • Erron says:

      So sorry to hear about this, Bill. That is awful and must be very hard for you at times. I do hope there are better days ahead.


  156. Margaret says:

    the visit to my mom with the girlfriend and her little Cairn terrier went well.
    turned out the group hike was canceled, too many ill persons, too cold, but the three of us and the dog went for a walk anyway.
    it was cold but I think it was good for my mom to practice again to walk with bigger strides, which improved over the walk which shows the medication is wearing off as it should!
    it was a bit sad at times as she said she would feel somewhat ‘deserted’ after we left, so we stayed a little longer and could leave her in a bit of a better mood.
    but she had a great time with the dog and I sent pictures to brother and sister.
    my friend has a mom with starting Alzheimer, which sounded more sevvere than my mom’s, so she was interested and empathetic to see what might be ahead, and what is still possible.
    I took her out for a meal, the doggy was welcome, and it was nice.
    a bit sad on some levels for my mom feeling occasionally unhappy, but well, she is much better off than on her own in the old house.

    on the news there was an item about Netanyahu being angry at our Belgian prima iminister, who visited him recently, but then also met with two ngo’s, one called ‘breaking the silemce’, former Israeli soldiers who bring out stuff they found inacceptable, and another ngo more in favour of Palestinian rights.
    netanyahu said Belgium has to choose to be pro or against Israel, I don’t like the guy.
    Belgium is against the settlements on Palestinian territory, where Trump actually sponsored some buildings..
    some of these settlers are so incredibly rigid in their views, and I do feel sorry for those Palesinians, a few were interviewed who worked in a settlement, two men who worked in gardening, but they did not seem to be keen on answering questions, probably scared to lose their jobs.
    I am sure a lot of Israeli do not agree with the fundamentalist fractions that often start those settlements, and are themselves strongly opposed to them.
    there is a big variety it seems in the political field in Israel, and sadly enough there too the right wing seems to have the power, now all the stronger in alliance with Trump…

    and Saoudi Arabia is the third dog sneaking away with the bone maybe…

    but wel, I am just observing with little knowledge, just feeling bad for people suffering, most of all for the imprisoned and tortured and their loved ones, thinking of Assad and his regime now.
    oh well, not want to go into long discussions about politics here really, but what is with the silence here again?
    or is something wrong with the mail?

  157. Phil says:

    Hurray! I finally got a snow day., just what I needed. Sometimes you do get what you want.

  158. Margaret says:

    just heard in an actualities program that saoudi Arabia spends about 100 Billion dollars (!) on efforts to spread Wahabite salafite muslimism, extreme , and with Koran versions with added encouragments on occasions to go for some kind of Jihad…
    it is a difficult issue as Belgium also stands for freedom of religion, but well, they want to stop the money streams and control the Saoudic trained imams that work in Belgium and train more western oriented imams that stand for peaceful coexistence.
    but well, 100 billion dollar is a lot to fight against…

  159. Margaret says:

    Bill, I agree with what Phil said.
    and Phil, enjoy that snow day!!!

  160. Phil says:

    Thanks Margaret, My son and I just finished shoveling the driveway not too long ago. It was a big job as we got almost a foot of snow. I know Larry won’t be impressed but it’s a lot for us. That was a good workout and needed because other than that we have been relaxing and enjoying the day inside..

    • Larry says:

      A foot of snow would be a lot for us, Phil. There seems to be a misconception that the Prairies get a lot of snow. Judging by the weather news, the eastern seaboard gets tons more, on average.

  161. Chris P says:

    Hello all,

    I have been in a fog since my mother died last week. And now I just noticed my cat has not been eating. I realize she has not eaten in probably a week now. She is very weak and can barely walk. I had the in-home vet come by and take a look at her, and he says aside from radical and costly interventions, there is nothing that can be done for her; he believes she has kidney failure.

    So now I am just waiting as it is only a matter of time. It is excruciating to watch her wither away before my eyes. She cries a lot and walks towards her food bowl, but can never bring herself to eat. I have bought many different kinds of foods: broths, pates, etc. in an attempt to get her to eat. Nothing helps. She tries to climb up on the sofa or bed and almost falls. I am completely alone here with her and that’s so hard. I wish I had someone here to help me to care for her in her last hours/days. I have been in contact with friends, especially Jack, but I really want someone here to help.

    She is 19 and has been with me just about the whole time I have been in LA. We have been together for almost half of my life. I am so sad and a bit overwhelmed what with the loss of my mother last week, so I am afraid this might be too much to bear. I contacted the vet this morning about putting her to sleep. He said that it was my decision, but he thought that there was still more time for her. He said she does not appear to be in pain. But I can’t tell you how painful it is FOR ME, to have to watch her go through this. 2-3 weeks ago she was running around here like a kitten.

  162. Margaret says:

    Chris, I am so sorry to hear about Bisky being so ill.
    of course she is of a respectable age, but still, it must be excruciating to see her uncomfortable. in case of doubt I hope the vet will give her some painkillers, but maybe as he says she has no pain.
    I feel very sorry both for you and for her, you have so much on your plate right now.
    follow your heart with what you decide, I know you will do what seems best and that is all we can do.
    thinking of you and Bisky,

  163. Chris P says:

    thank you Margaret I appreciate the support; she seems to not be in too much pain. He said that I could get THC oil and that might help make her more relaxed.

  164. Phil says:

    I am sorry to hear that your cat is in bad shape, I hope she will recover.

  165. Larry says:

    I was exploring and putting down my thoughts and feelings probably at the same time you were composing your recent news, Chris, which I just now read. I feel for you in the grief befalling you now and the days, months and maybe years ahead. The following is my dealing with the stage of grief I’m at this moment.

    Last year I read two mind bending books. The most recent was “A New History of Life. The Radical New Discoveries About the Origins and Evolution of Life On Earth”. Presenting objective educated analyses of current and accumulated evidence, the authors transported me back to the beginning of time. They privileged me with a guided walk through the eons to witness the circumstances of the start and evolution of life on Earth to what it is today. I felt sad to finish that book, knowing it would be a long time before I found another one as thought provoking and compelling to me. I come away from it feeling it is indeed a fragile miracle of time and massive forces that result in you and I being here, experiencing now as we do.

    I retire in a couple of months. In some ways I dread it. I will miss the need to learn and think to perform my job. I hope as I grow old I can somehow continue to expand and challenge my mind. That is why, though it didn’t at first pique my curiosity, I decided to pick up the book “Journey To the Centre of the Earth. A Scientific Exploration Into the Heart of Our Planet.” It turned out to be quite interesting. It’s surprising how strange and mysterious the interior of our planet is. In its molten state during the formation of our planet, the heaviest substance of great amount, iron, settled to the bottom. Today the outer core of earth is liquid iron. But due to the massive temperatures and pressures further down at the centre, that press atoms into unexpected arrangements, though hotter than the Sun the earth’s core is solid iron.

    The conduction and convection currents in the liquid iron and the movement of tectonic plates act as a dynamo that generates Earth’s magnetic field. The magnetic field deflects radiation from the sun that would otherwise bombard Earth and kill all life. Over time, as the Earth cools, the dynamo slows and stops, perhaps in 7 or 8 billion years, ending Life.

    The Sun is halfway through its expected lifetime. Within the next billion years its brightness and temperature will increase, stripping away all water from our planet and baking Life to death. Near the end of its lifetime as the Sun runs out of fuel and mass it will expand greatly in size to a diameter beyond Earth’s orbit. The authors write “Just before it dies the Earth will look like Mercury, a wrecked, baked and blasted, bone-dry, scarred hulk with the exposed floors of former oceans. From the lonely ruin that is the Earth at this time, the leering red Sun would cover 70% of the sky. The Earth’s tidal death will be swift; perhaps in a few hundred years at most it will fragment and scatter itself across the face of the star that created it all those billions of years ago.”……..”When it happens all that will be left will be atoms; every chemical bond that once made a mineral, or a molecule, or a strand of DNA, will be torn apart.”…..”The Earth began as dust clumped together and it will end fragmented into dust scattered across the face of a white dwarf star that will do nothing but cool forever, undisturbed as it moves, constantly fading, in between the stars. “

    As I read those last sentences, the bottom fell from my mental model of reality. I felt sadness to realize that life on Earth is like a miracle while we experience it, but in the time frame of the universe is fragile, impermanent and inconsequential.

    I’m sure feelings are there for me having to do with my wife’s and my parents’ lives being over, meanwhile I’m still here feeling solid and real and how could I not go on forever, yet soon enough I too will be gone and eventually it will be as if I had never been. All that feels so important to me, all of our dreams and struggles, will be inconsequential. My brain understands, but my feelings are: I feel sad it will all be over and long gone, we have such precious little time…if only we could be more aware of how rare and special and make the most of it.

    • Chris P says:

      wow Larry, that is powerful.

    • Erron says:

      Larry, your post really brought up a lot of deep feelings for me, that touch on the awful sense of annihilation. It’s something I avoid like the plague, but I try to go there in hopes that feeling enough of it will someday lift my depression.


      • Larry says:

        Sorry Eron I don’t want to affect you negatively. I guess when we explore our feelings and write about it here, we’re bound to affect other people, one way or the other.

        It’s no wonder to me that so many people don’t contemplate evolution, whether of life, our species, or the planets, stars and the universe itself. To do so seems to me to become aware of a cold indifferent truth. Or perhaps, no doubt, there is a big feeling there for me. I do feel close to crying about what I wrote and posted today.

        • Erron says:

          Larry, any time you or anyone brings up feelings for me I consider it a lucky break 🙂 Even if it hurts like shit!

          Do you know what is signal for me about these feelings? It’s not necessarily to do so much with crying (second line) but more the devastation and utter “end of existence” first line/brainstem stuff. I don’t always go that deep, but I find that’s where the real gold lies.


          • What are you daring to suggest here, Larry? That the aggregate forces of Trump, 9/11, and Holocaust news coverage will be scrunched into a meaningless ball of aluminum foil even smaller than the 130 words of newsprint written up about my mother? Scary and groundbreaking stuff to contemplate the true nature of forced meaninglessness, hah?

            • Erron says:

              Er, no, I think he’s talking about the world of feelings/sensations. This may be a new topic for you. Suggest you jettison your neocortical superiority and do a little study on contemporary primal theory as espoused in Arthur Janov’s books and writings.

              The possible extinction of life on earth has a deep PERSONAL resonance for people like Larry. And me. Who gives a fuck about Donald Trump?

              as e.e.cummings said:

              “if i

              or anybody don’t
              know where it her his

              my next meal’s coming from
              i say to hell with that
              that doesn’t matter (and if

              he she it or everybody gets a
              bellyful without
              lifting my finger i say to hell
              with that i

              say that doesn’t matter) but
              if somebody
              or you are beautiful or
              deep or generous what
              i say is

              whistle that
              sing that yell that spell
              that out big (bigger than cosmic
              rays w ar earthquakes famine or the ex

              prince of whoses diving into
              a whatses to rescue miss nobody’s
              probably handbag) because i say that’s not

              swell (get me) babe not (understand me) lousy
              kid that’s something else my sweet (i feel that’s



            • Larry says:

              UG, I find your circuitous manner of expressing yourself requires guesswork to figure out what you mean, then when anyone engages you to uncover what you mean, you back away claiming you have more important things to do.

              • Larry:
                So when Erron writes to me at the outset, “Er, no, I think he’s talking about the world of feelings/sensations. This may be a new topic for you. Suggest you jettison your neocortical superiority and do a little study on contemporary primal theory as espoused in Arthur Janov’s books and writings.”

                Does this really, honestly strike you as someone who is “engaging me to uncover what I mean” (as you implied in your post)?

                Personally it seems more like someone wanting to give me a little verbal slapping around and a lesson on Arthur Janov’s endless neocortical superiority.

                I am not harboring a grudge against Erron for his initial actions as I perceive them at this time, but at least do me a favor, Larry, and let’s not characterize it as such that I am babbling and someone is trying to uncover what I mean.

                • Erron says:

                  Guru, I knew full well what you meant when you posted. You were denying the emotional component of Larry’s heartfelt post, in your usual flight into pseudo-intellectualism. And I’m afraid for me, the quality of your intellectual writing most resembles babbling. Turgid prose does not imply deep thought; more often an overweening need to be seen as special. Why don’t you come down off your high horse sometime and tell us how you feel, instead of what you think will impress us?


                  • Wait a minute, Larry writes a whole page of prose and I write a lousy three sentences in response about how it relates to my own experiences, yet you’ve been all over my case about it saying I have a need to be seen as special? Really? Jesus, get a grip, man! I don’t know what your problem is, Erron, but many of your interpretations are severely mistaken.

                    • Jack says:

                      Guru: I for one did noit think Erron nor Larry’s responses were in stlightest are/were out of order.

                      you come across to me as being super defensive.


                    • Erron says:

                      Guru, you make one oblique reference to your mother in that post of three sentences. It has no context, and conveys no sense of what you mean or what you felt about your mother’s death. That’s why I glossed over it and just took it as another one of your unfathomable posts. You would get into far less trouble from people like me if you actually addressed how you felt about your mother’s death. It would be especially meaningful and get more respect from me, if it had any logical connection to the post you were replying to, which yours certainly didn’t.

              • Larry says:

                My response (Feb 11 7:26 am) was to your Feb 10 11:58 pm post, UG, irregardless of what interactions you have with Erron.

  166. Margaret says:

    those kind of questions and thoughts are very interesting, our universe is incredible and mysteriously fascinating, beautiful , but also with a mixture of love and cruelty, new life and death, cycles going around..
    it intrigues me big time, mostly consciousness in all its aspects, awareness, communication, be it of humans, sea creatures or all kinds of life.
    what helps me to deal with it from a personal relativity and ending viewpoint is the bigger scene of just consciousness in general as the quality that is passed through in every living being, evolving to a wider and wider kind of state.
    we probably still are only a rude primitive kind of life if we could compare it to more evolved and developed future or present but unknown forms, is what I imagine sometimes.
    deeper understanding, connection, whatever capacities we cannot even imagine the way an ant could not imagine how it is to be a cat or a cat has no idea about the universe on a wider scale , we only have our own limited view i imagine.
    but I also hope some values are real like respect, love, care and kindness, beauty and growth, the urge to survive in one way or another in the best way possible?
    or maybe that is just human delusion, but even that is ok.
    it is what it is, as it is fabulous anyway, an incredible adventure with immense complexity and beauty, apart from all the struggle and pain, of which sadly enough we inflict most of it to each other.
    the worst example on my mind these days being that prison in Syria where tens of thousands systematically right now still are tortured and killed, a true equivalent of what the word ‘hell’ represents to me, to be submitted to others going to inflict deliberate pain on you with no way of escape or control for the victim.
    that is ugliness of the worst form, a derailment only humans seem to know, no other species we know inflicts pain for pleasure.
    if there would have been a god it would be a lousy one, as if that god created it al, it could equally have been done without all that unnecessary suffering.
    but well, maybe death is a blessing sometimes, as all suffering will eventually end at least…
    it is a strange world, even in its pure state, natural creatures being born, well looked after by their parents , living, creating more offspring, but also at some point without exception falling prey or getting hurt or ill or in any case dying of old age, and most often not in a very fun way..
    that is probably coloured by a feeling of mine, wanting to make it all ok, relieving all pain and suffering, taking away all fear and despair, granting the comfort of love and peace to all life ending, my biggest feeling seemingly no creature should die scared and lonely without understanding , that last aspect being part of the feeling, maybe a touch of why does noone come and help me, am I all alone and is it all going to be disastrous?
    the best image for me to picture htis unbearable feeling is that of a scared little cat in a cage, am getting teary now..
    probably little 2 year old me being put in some kind of nursing home for weeks in a row, feeling lost and terrified.
    and the curse we have of knowing we are going to die, and all the bad imaginations our minds can come up with, instead of living in the moment enjoying it to the fullest.
    now i think of a dog in a cage, or a ben, always locked up, he too is sad and longs for affection and companionship.
    this is why i used the word respect earlier on, we should not do that to any creature, we should not raise animals with thousands in cages with horrible lifes and use them, it is simply not right.
    dignity, like a wild animal, maybe rescued when hurt, treated and then left free again, the pictures of a wild bird or other animal being set free again never fail to deeply move me.
    i hope so strongly our species learns to respect the world, nature, life in all its forms, if we keep expanding, i hope we won’t be like some kind of disease that spoils whatever it touches, i hope we as a species can grow into a better state of mind and behaviour with respect and kindness for the world and universe it originated from.
    sorry if i aam boring everyone, if anyone could keep reading for this long, but this is what all feels like the essential mysteries I assume we all wonder about, but maybe I am wrong, haha, I certainly do.
    marvelling at the world, finding it a privilege to be accepted and trusted by other life forms, animals or humans.
    but that we have to deserve, and that agin takes me to that very vulnerable frightened little kid or cat that can only be comforted by true gentleness and kindness in order to be able to start trusting.
    ok, that is my personal center point.

  167. Erron says:

    Margaret, I think it’s almost the richness of life, it’s balance of beauty and horror, that overwhelms me the most. I do better in unrelenting attack circumstances, I feel because my defences work better when my back’s to the wall. Sometimes, simple kindness undoes me.


  168. Otto Codingian says:

    sorry to hear, chris. horrible news about the cat. good luck.

  169. Chris P says:

    thank you so much Otto

  170. I can’t respond to Jack above, but all I will say there is that Jack’s defensiveness comment is bullshit to me. Jack’s comment was only to try to take advantage of a situation where two people he likes (Erron and Larry) are dogpiling on one person he doesn’t like (THE Ultimate Superstar Guru) and to try to wedge things further against the person he doesn’t like for personal enjoyment, nothing more than that.

    • Erron says:

      So, tell us how you really felt about your mother’s death! I apologise for glossing over it the first time, but as I have explained in the original thread, you seemed to have thrown the comment in apropos of nothing at all. This is where I’m always going to have difficulty with what you write, Guru: you strangle what you (apparently) mean to say in attempted high prose, and it just doesn’t work. If you are really trying to express yourself, and not just using this forum for intellectual entertainment, then say it simply from the heart, and you won’t have any argument with me personally.

    • Jack says:

      Guru: But you just did … in a round about fashion. However, if that is what you feel about me that’s fineI, I can accept that.


  171. Leslie says:

    Sorry to hear you have more decisions to make Chris and the grave illness of your very special cat. Definitely too much all at once!
    Every day will give you more time til you know.
    It is horrible and the grief so hard…

  172. Sylvia says:

    I saw this video on U Tube, called “A man on the verge of death rescued by a dog wit no hope. Then the dog rescues him.” It’s about a man who lost 140 lbs. with the help of his dog who gave him a reason to change his life. I teared up at the part when he says, ‘ I loved him so much.’

    Hope it comes through:

  173. Chris P says:

    lovely story Sylvia!

  174. Margaret says:

    I can relate to being triggered by kindness and by getting my needs met in the present..

  175. Margaret says:

    Dear chris,
    how are you and Bisky doing now?
    maybe you will have posted something before this comment gets pasted on the blog for me, there is a delay of several hours at some mometns of the day, so sorry if it appears maybe after you already wrote something about it.
    thinking of you and Bisky.
    a hug for you and a very soft caress and some soft words for Bisky, M

    • Chris P says:

      Hi Margaret,

      thank you asking. I am exhausted and terribly sad. I am losing my little sweetheart Bisky. I am desperate at times, but then I realize there is not much to do for her, and so that leads to the sadness and hopelessness.

      Bisky has not eaten now in over a week. I have tried many foods but she has no appetite. I am giving her pot oil, but so far no help for her loss of appetite. She is drinking regularly, but is getting very weak and not walking well at all. She does not move much and is close to the end. I am sad. She has been with me here in LA ever since I came and has been a great companion/family member. As you know it is heart wrenching; there is no worse pain.

      I have a very kind Vet who will come here to put her to sleep if it comes to that. I am hoping she goes naturally in her sleep.

      I am going to miss my little girl a lot. This makes me feel like life is unfair, but that is the way it is. So hard to accept.

      Thank you again for asking Margaret. How is everything with you and your little kitties?

  176. Margaret says:

    I just ran into an item about carpal tunnel syndrome which causes finger numbness etc. with people using a keyboard for extended periods of time during the day.
    there exist wrist supports that help diminish the tension on the wrist while typing.
    hope it could help you so it does not get worse, I suppose you can find them on the internet.

  177. Otto Codingian says:

    M, it is possible that i have that. I am thinking more that it is diabetes and artery disease. whatever, i hate going to the doctor. i tripped and fell on a cart yesterday at work, bruised my leg and cracked the back of my head on concrete floor. I was quickly thinking i was going to die so i got ready to go be near the e.r. but as of yet, nothing seems to have changed. dont like going to doctors.

  178. Otto Codingian says:

    anyway, nothing seems to be grabbing me feeling-wise, except i wake up everyday remembering how gruesome it was to put the black cat to sleep, not to mention constantly recalling every other pet i have had who suffered because of my inability to provide good care–that intrudes into my consciousness when i see some animal that triggers those memories. i could not push myself to go to group yesterday, or go lay in the little room and listen to music at the pi. it was cold, i was tired, and my head was starting to hurt where i bashed it. the only thing feeling-wise i am a tiny bit close to is feeling slightly bad about never-had or forever lost intimacy that is played out in this snl clip TOTINOS.

  179. Bill Jones says:

    Dear Jack, Phil, Erron, and Margaret,
    Thank you for your acknowledgement.

  180. Margaret says:

    Dear Chris,
    it is hard for me to think about how it must be, it brings up the sadness again about having to deal with the impossibility to protect a loved little companion ..
    I hope she can indeed go away peacefully in her sleep, or in your arms if the vet has to come to help.
    I hope you don’t need to go to work tomorrow morning.

    don’t hesitate to give me a call if you need someone to talk to.
    I feel very sad for you and her.
    p.s. thanks, Pluche and Plukkie are fine, I thought of you last night when big Plukkie decided to come and lay on my chest for a while in the middle of the night, in my arms, and I could feel how good it was for the both of us, so relaxing and peaceful.
    he fell asleep and had a little dream, while I was holding him, until he woke up a little later and went for a late night nibble of cat crunchies.
    all that sadness we have to deal with is directly related to the amount of love we shared with them, and Bisky is lucky to have you with her as a very loving cat daddy. she certainly is in a warm and safe home with you.

    • Chris P says:

      thank you for the reply Margaret, and I really appreciate you sharing the delightful story of Plukkie and Pluche. They sounds very cute. I will almost certainly be taking you a=up on the offer to call tonight. I wonder what time is good for you?


  181. Margaret says:

    you would not need to go to a doctor as I am sure that when you look up carpal tunnel syndrome there might be links to the wrist supports you can probably order over the internet.
    or you can have a look at them and fabricate something with the same effect..
    too bad you had such a bad fall, always distressing.
    I think you really did your best for your pets, without you they would probably have been put down years ago.
    you sound like you love and loved them a lot.

  182. I’m not sure why you would want me to watch the white supremacist Richard Spencer. You must know I could never respect someone like that and I could only find him to be uneducated and frankly stupid. Don’t you think he’s a bit simple minded? I do. Also I made no comment to you. What’s to fight about? I simply asked if you now considered yourself a white nationalist or a national socialist based on comments YOU have made. It’s a simple yes or no. Not that I expect a simple or honest yes or no as I have noticed people with these beliefs have a tendency to hide behind hoods or matching uniforms. So if you look back at my last post you will see that I simply asked you the question. Yes or no do you consider yourself a white nationalist or a national socialist? Gretchen

    • Patrick? Do you remember a long LONG time ago on the blog when I asked Bernadette if she was related to Jack in any way? and Gretchen stepped in out of the blue saying my question wasn’t innocuous and that Bernadette did not have to answer it?

      I would like to now return the favor in a belated fashion and remind you that Gretchen’s question may not be an innocuous one (probably much less innocuous than the one I posted to Bernadette a long while back), so think carefully before you answer her question. You do not have to provide such information to her if you do not wish to do so!

      • Patrick says:

        Guru – It seems we both wrote simultaneously in any case I did answer and only now see your ‘warning’ First off I DO remember what you are talking about re Bernadette and for what it’s worth I did not feel your question to be out of line. Gretchen might have some information that made her think otherwise and maybe ‘just a feeling’ she had but really if anything I thought it quite a good question as it seemed to me at least a somewhat artificial situation the kind of ‘pretense’ that there was no connection between Jack and Bernadette. BTW i wonder where is the “swisslady” she made quite a splash and then poof! gone……….

        I appreciate your attempt at ‘help’ and giving me a heads up about Gretchen’s question to me. And typical of me I suppose though I did have a similar feeling about it that it was a ‘trap’ and not that ‘innocuous’ well like I said I tend to just charge ahead consequences be damned which of course does sometimes (often) land me in trouble.But my understanding of ‘primal’ always kind of hinged on that if we cannot say what we are really thinking and feeling what good is it? And from my experience on this very question I have often wondered what good is it at least as regards this very point. Like even now when as you might say when push comes to shove Gretchen is all ‘politically or primally correct’ and does not seem interested in any kind of open debate or discussion. Just ‘think’ now you are supposed to ……………….well that does not work for me never has and I don’t think ever will.

        • Well I’d like to think in the simplest, rawest terms that asking someone if s/he is related to someone else is a less potentially damaging and inflammatory (and this, more innocuous) question than asking if s/he is a White Nationalist, but what does poor little Guru know?

          • Patrick says:

            A lot more than he lets on……………..but maybe is afraid of the Inquisition. Those “Witch” questions are tough to deal with they are set up that way there is no good answer. Also those ‘have you stopped beating your wife yet’ questions are real tough to deal with .”Yes” or “No’ your totally screwed there must be some legal term for those kind of questions. I say your honor I object to the ‘totally screwd’ question posed by opposing counsel……..

          • Jack says:

            Guru: Pose your question to the person/s concerned. They may or may not be willing to answer you … if so: leave it at that.

            Otherwise, it will seem you have an agenda by asking the question.


            • Jack: In spite of our differences what I am going to say after the first comma in this sentence is not designed to belittle you or offend you, but I honestly don’t think you are seeing the true, larger contextual depth of what is going on here. Let’s leave it at that.

  183. Patrick says:

    This talk of a ‘trap’ reminds me of probably my favorite Bruce Springsteen song

    Well, it seems like I’m caught up in your trap again
    And it seems like I’ll be wearing the same old chains
    Good will conquer evil and the truth will set me free
    And I know someday I will find the key
    And I know somewhere I will find the key

  184. Patrick says:

    BTW Guru it did occur to me to come to your ‘defense’ yesterday I think it was but I felt you don’t welcome too much drama of focus on yourself. But it’s a bit hard for me to hold my tongue when I see you being ganged up on by primal ideologues of the like Jack and Erron who have nothing much to say except their predictable primal verities. From which may the Lord protect us!

  185. Lol well as long as you have his best interest at heart Guru and he yours! Forget the question it could not be less important. As I said I did not expect a simple answer. The fact that you equate ” do you beat your wife?” with this rhetoric may indeed be a good sign. Let’s leave it at that. G.

  186. I believe our motivations were miles apart actually. You wanted to give Patrick a heads up that my question ( as clear as it was) might have more meaning then the dim-witted Patrick could comprehend? Suit yourself but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I do think it is helpful that you made it clear that your warning was for you and not for him. As for being neutral on Patrick. I’m sorry but I don’t buy that either. Right now, it seems to me , your opinion lays on the side of whoever you are angry with the least. Your true opinion? That’s for you to say or not. But neutral on Patrick’s comments…I don’t think so. G.

    • Gretchen: No, you are comparing your motivations for the Bernadette incident with my motivations regarding what happened with Patrick this evening. I was comparing my actual motivation (returning a deliciously sweet favor to you) with what you seem to be perceive my motivation being that I was chipping in completely for Patrick as a comrade-in-arms. I knew my warning against your question’s possible side effects would help Patrick as an incidental, but yes, I had my own reasons.

      I am neutral regarding Patrick because he doesn’t give me a lot of bullshit (which I appreciate), yet at the same time I do think these conspiracy theories have thrown him tragically off-course. He says, for instance, these terror incidents are fake whereas I believe they are real. Instead, I believe these events are wildly overblown by the news media when actual risks to the violent end of human life are coldly calculated.

      The main positive of my being humanly cordial with Patrick is offset by the negative that I have quite a few civil disagreements with the conspiracies Patrick espouses.

      All in all that adds up to ……neutral! (1 good point – 1 bad point == 0 neutral)

      • Also, I forgot to add….
        Wouldn’t you agree that asking someone about possible family relations would be a question that should have a a greater likelihood of properly being taken at face value (cigar is just a cigar) as a matter of convention compared to asking someone if s/he is a White Nationalist? I would suspect most people would gather the sense that asking someone if s/he is a racist would carry more potentially nefarious background motives (aka “exploding cigar”) than a simple family relations question.

        I’d like to give these ephemerals a rest now. Other people want to get their own business done here and I’ll oblige.

    • Patrick says:

      It’s funny one of my gripes about Guru is he is NOT a ‘comrade-in-arms’ (to me) I think he always makes it VERY clear he is not ‘on my side’ ‘does not agree’ with the content of what i am saying etc. Right now I am not complaining about this ‘just saying’ more and in another way it is a nice quality he has in \that way. He does not ‘gang up’ even if he is mildly ganged up on at times.

      Again though Gretchen I find your attitude strange you are now sort of ‘accusing’ Guru as not being ‘neutral’ on me or something. I think he is VERY ‘neutral’ more neutral than I would like but it seems just because he does not join in in the sort of general condemnation of me he is somehow ‘secretly’ on my side or something. That feels to me of the group think you seem to fall into. And once again while condemning an almost imaginary group think you feel free to express your own with no shame or even knowledge of the kind of inconsistency involved.

      So now I am ‘dim witted’ one thing I feel like saying is “I wish”. If I was I would notice a lot less about the world that is pretty disturbing. Please let me be dim witted then there is less stuff to bother me.

  187. Margaret says:

    sorry for not replying earlier, I only read your comment about the time this morning.
    together with 20 other comments I still have to read..
    any time, except 9.30 am your time today as I will be having a session with Gretchen at that time..

  188. Daniel says:

    Guru: Patrick’s most disturbing ideas were not and are not the conspiracy theories per se, but that those theories were racially colored. In fact they are racist pure and simple. The Oxford dictionary defines racism as: “A person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races…”, and Patrick has certainly and repeatedly shown prejudice toward Jews and the Jewish people with whom he now seems to be totally obsessed.

    I believe Patrick that he’s really afraid and concerned about things that he perceives Jews are responsible for, and I really wish he would pick up were he left off when he said that he needs to come to terms with his inner Jew.

    I’d like also to apologize for not answering your Trump comment from couple of weeks ago. I would like to say something about your new president and also would love to engage you in conversation about it, but still haven’t made up my mind how to approach this amazing development.

  189. Guru, What you say might make sense had I asked Patrick that question out of the blue . However I asked him that question in response to his saying ” it’s easier for you to assume white nationalist = bad” which yes indeed I do. The next obvious question is whether he sees himself as a white nationalist I believe. There’s nothing tricky there. As for what I said to Bernadette….well, that was not meant to attack you but to address the issue with her. Did I sense you had an agenda at the time? Yes and I think that was pretty clear. But that is a far cry from you assuming you could get back at me in some convoluted way by giving Patrick some wacky warning about my question. I don’t understand that at all. A warning that what might happen? That something real might be revealed? If you were dealing with some anger you had at me it might be better to say it directly. As for what you like about Patrick ( that he isn’t giving you any crap at the moment) well, you might consider a higher standard for friendship. G.

    • *sigh* I’m tired, it’s been a long day, I have a rare headache, and now Gretchen wants to squabble with me. Alllright, I will dish out this long, boring diatribe only because I am forced to as a response to Gretchen’s aggressive shaping of my actions in as bad of a light as she possibly could .

      Gretchen: No, you incorrectly sensed I had an agenda when I asked Bernadette if she is related to Jack. You never asked me directly whether I had an agenda at all, and instead you hopped right in and told her she didn’t have to answer my question without giving me any benefit of the doubt on the issue beforehand. I was certainly angry at you after you did what you did, yes, so I figure one day I will just return a small sampling of you did.

      Your warning to Bernadette was just as wacky as you claim mine to be, perhaps even more so because the question involved was far more innocuous than a White Nationalist question.

      You claim there was nothing tricky about it, but as a general principle (without pointing fingers or accusing anyone specifically) we can both agree that one of the trickster’s best tools is to continually and steadfastly claim there is no trickery involved so as to never have the tricks exposed, yes?

      If you want to believe what I did was wacky, then so be it. It sounds to me you might be passively-aggressively expressing your own anger at me for giving my warning a denigrating “wacky” word. Who knows? That’s for you to discover, I suppose. I think what I did was hilarious even if no one else in the whole wide world appreciates it *shrug*.

      Lastly, how do you define friendship? Although I’m cordial with Patrick we rarely communicate with each other privately. I think the last time I communicated with him privately was….4-6 months ago? I can hardly remember. I think one reason for this is not due to rancor, but rather our respective belief systems have drifted far apart. Also, I do have problems with Patrick insulting people on the blog. I agree this is hurtful behavior and I do understand why people would be incredibly pissed about it. Since he has made a concerted effort not to slam me personally, I consider it only fair to treat him cordially as well.

      I communicate with a couple of Primallers who are throwbacks to the 70’s and 80’s once or twice a week. Been buddying for 10-15 years or so.

      I also feel as though we’ve reached a point where this is becoming unnecessary squabbling when other folks want to express themselves. I was happy to let this matter go entirely last night, but I am only responding because you want to keep talking about it.

      I really have other fish to fry now. Can you truly let this matter go? Maybe we can have fun with this some other time.

  190. Patrick, I think you misunderstood my post. I was not saying I thought you were dim- witted. I was saying that gurus feeling that he must warn you might indicate he thinks you are too dim- witted to handle such a question yourself and without warning. As for my comments on his neutrality. No I was not implying he was secretly in favor of your comments nor do I care if he is. My comment had more to do with the idea that anyone would feel neutral in the face of such racially charged comments. I’m not sure what he feels exactly but I would not buy anyone saying they were neutral. Would you? As for me no I don’t think you are dim- witted but I do at times wince with embarrassment for you at some of the comments you have made. Your feelings seem so transparent to me. I might add that I actually think supporting any of this in you does you no good at all. I wonder if there might come a time when you wake up and say ” what have I said and done”. As I have told you before I feel sorry for you, I think you need help. G.

    • Patrick says:

      Gretchen – to be honest right now all this feels like a storm in a tea cup. Yesterday here in LA the skies were sprayed literally all day constant large trails/sprays until by the afternoon almost the whole sky was white. The sheer AMOUNT of stuff is shocking the skies in the afternoon looked like they were full of ‘clouds’ but there was not a natural cloud anywhere to be seen. The ‘sunset’ was sort of visible but totally blurred from what would have been a beautiful clear and natural sunset. Jack lives in LA and says he loves the blue skies etc I wonder if he sees any of this. I cannot see how you can miss it. This does not happen every day it seems some days are ‘selected’ for wall to wall whitewashing which again to me shows this has nothing to do with ‘normal’ aircraft. Also yesterday there were several of these ‘curves’ sprays in the sky no actual airplane flies like that if it is going from A to B no reason to do this crazy curve in the sky

      I don’t know if this all means that “I need help”. Well maybe but I think we all need help here, can you provide it?

  191. Patrick says:

    What this guy describes was somewhat like what we had here yesterday but here it was more sheer ‘clouds’ (actually nothing to do with clouds really ‘aerosols’) and less of the ‘processing’ though there was some of that. It feels to me like we are being sprayed like bugs which might get us to attack each other and fight for no reason…………………

  192. Jo says:

    You can’t be serious!!??!! That’s weather- it’s called a mackerel sky. Google it

    • Patrick says:

      How wonderful Jo that you found a ‘name’ for it and you found it in Google so it must be true then!! A mackerel sky? Wow I have seen ‘salmon’ skies and all kinds of skies most of which are NOT ‘normal’ and were NOT around when I was a child. I have seen ‘fishbone’ skies and ‘thumbprint’ and ‘vertebrae’ skies again all NOT ‘normal’ But God Bless you Jo you can go to Google and find out what is really going on! What a wonderful and secure and imo unreal world you can live in. Just find anything at all but if someone can give it a ‘name’ then you feel fine right? I wish I had something like that kind of amnesia to get me through life.

      • Patrick says:

        There is something about this kind of “English self assurance’ that really rubs me the wrong way. These sons of bitches English fucked up and dominated the whole world and starved Ireland into a famine that actually really was a holocaust or genocide but they can sit around in their fancy gardens and talk nonsense like ‘oh what a fine mackerel sky we are having today” Self assured confident pompous asses living of the sweat and labor of the 3rd World and that included Ireland oh but they are so ‘civilized’ and so delicate and subtle why they now talk about ‘mackerel skies’. What a joke except it’s not funny

      • Jo says:

        Your sarcasm is wasted on me. My father taught me all the cloud formations as he was an amateur meteorologist as well as being a priest. We had a weather station in the garden, and part of his duty was to send data to the meteorology office daily. As the son of a farmer, living on an island where weather is a daily occurrence, I’m surprised you didn’t know this.

        • Patrick says:

          Yes I am the son of a farmer and I know quite well the ‘clouds’ you see now in Ireland have little to do with the ‘real’ clouds we saw in those days. I mentioned before I arrived in Ireland in the middle of July last next and it took ONE MONTH and this is watching everyday before I saw EITHER a sunrise or a sunset. You can la de da me all you like and do your whole “English’ thing about how ‘cultured’ and ‘educated’ your background is but that is ‘wasted’ on me…………….because all your airs and graces just attempts to cover up what a dope you actually are. You don’t LOOK you don’t SEE but you are ‘educated’ and ‘knowledgeable’ Save me from people like this

  193. Patrick says:

    My feeling is we are being sprayed like cockroaches but I guess we can distract ourselves sit around talking about different cloud formations when it has NOTHING to do with ‘clouds’. Look up in the freaking sky and if you are in London Jo for sure you can see it almost any clear day you get there which is not that many but for God’s sake USE YOUR EYES, LOOK UP AT THE SKY you will see you are being sprayed like a bug. I understand this very much goes against that profound English ‘confidence’ and ‘self assurance’ and I have a few English friends and their attitude typically is ‘oh they wouldn’t do that’ My take is oh yes the would and they HAVE! They starved the freaking Irish all the while sitting around in their fine parlors having tea or whatever. But now the English themselves like most people are just a target is this “Jewish’ revenge or Illuminati agenda or Rothschild population control………………you can call it anything you like and even find a name for it in Google to ‘normalize’ it all but it all comes down to you are being sprayed like a bug………..

  194. Patrick says:

    I don’t mean to make it personal with you Jo so I apologize if it bothers you but there is something about this think of being treated like a total fool. Like yesterday the fucking skies were being sprayed and filled up with aerosols from morning to night how anybody cannot see that I don’t know but then to be told ‘oh all this is normal it’s just so and so’. There is a saying here ‘you are pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining’. That’s about the state we are in i am so tired of people not just using their freaking EYES not to mention their brains they will sit there like bugs and let themselves be sprayed to death all the time talking finery as they expire. And often if anyone raises an alarm finding him guilty of ‘hate speech’ or something. A lock down on even talking about certain things and I really resent Gretchen’s role in this here. Again just give something a ‘name’ and all is OK. Well it’s NOT not by a long shot……………

    • See? That’s what I’ve come to know about you, Patrick. You’re quick to insult someone when you’re irritated, but many times you do quickly backtrack and apologize once the heat wears off. I had a couple of Irish friends in school who were exactly like that.
      I can understand and appreciate the Irish quickly insult and quickly apologize style even though it’s definitely an acquired taste people must become familiar with.

      An apology only remediates perhaps 30-50% of the original pain of the insult, though. I would suggest giving a $100 bill to the injured party to help smooth things over completely.

        • Sylvia says:

          Yes Guru, Patrick would have to take out a sizeable loan to meet that obligation to the injured party. A morning chuckle, indeed.

      • Patrick says:

        Well thanks Guru that shows a lot of understanding of me. So I am sorry Jo but no $100.00 bill I will let Guru do that if he cares to. But seriously that is one reason I do like Guru a lot here he is not so ‘primally correct’ but he puts his finger on stuff and has an understanding that it seems few actually have. About this “Irish” need to hurt yes I have that I can’t help it it feels I suppose like survival I HAVE to …………… that moment but the moment passes and as Guru says as the heat wears off I feel sorry I really do. But a lot of people don’t have that ‘understanding’ or go with that at all esp it might be the English such a stuck up ‘proper’ race I hate that crap. It amazes me it survives into PT but it does big time which makes me think along the lines of ‘race’ again those things can go very deep and seemingly they do. (BTW I don’t think of Jack as “English” so much but he has the same cold heart to me anyway he does) I got ‘mad’ at my brother once in the Summer and it was strange like he ‘understood’ totally just it’s something deep and unsaid and does not need to be said. It’s almost by getting ‘mad’ at him I ‘proved’ I was really family. Anyway I am in more trouble…………..whatever……………..I appreciate your attempts Gretchen I really do at the same time I feel you are ‘off’ but why should you even bother I am not paying you you do more than you have to. And actually i am fine I feel more grounded that I ever have in my life I have to confidence to call bs on so many things, things that ‘deserve’ it so much lies and pretense in the world. It’s even fun to get under some of those we are basically massively brain washed imo.

  195. Patrick says:

    Ireland now……………………

  196. Patrick says:

    This bring me to tears a little bit……………’s like my Dad and the people before him came through such hardship but they kept going keep the Irish DNA alive even if they did not have a word for it the felt it as deeply as anything could just make it through and it was connected to “Irish Nationalism” that was the ‘name’ the only thing that could and would help. The English always were the problem but now I sort of understand the “English” were ‘globalists’ and ‘internationalists’ and seriously run by “Jewish” money and influence so excuse me very much if I do NOT share Gretchen’s ‘disgust’ at nationalism Irish, White or any other color to me it is at least a bulwark against the absolute destruction of humanity which she seems to prefer. All unknowingly I suppose.

  197. Phil says:

    Can you post a link to one good scientific paper about chemtrails? I did a search look just now and didn’t see anything. Some people collected rain water in a bottle in Australia and sent it to a lab for testing. A tiny amount of barium was found and they concluded that it confirms their chemtrails hypothesis. That is not a scientific study. Maybe the bottle itself was contaminated with barium. Nothing is listed about the quality of the lab and it’s methods. Not to mention that barium in rain water does not prove chemtrails. I am asking for a real scientific study with solid evidence.
    I can state that the moon is made of Swiss cheese. It’s yellow and can you see holes in it. From what I can see that equivalent to the quality of the chemtrails theory.
    The chemtrails theory is full of holes just like Swiss cheese. It might be a good thing to go back to square one and examine how you became convinced on this to begin with.


  198. Patrick says:

    Happy Valentine’s Day everybody……………….and watch out for that bug spray!

    • Phil says:

      So many typos in my last post. Maybe because I’m exasperated from hearing about chemtrails. Patrick, please provide some actual evidence. What I have seen is ridiculous. Stuff that’s worth less than one minute of consideration.

  199. You need to stop insulting those who disagree with you. It doesn’t seem to occur to you that it might be you who is wrong. When you add to that your comments about Satan and Illumanati, honestly Patrick please get some help. Some part of you must see how far afield you are going. You asked if I could help. Yes, but you would need to accept it. Here is my help….take a month and stop reading all, yes all of these conspiracy theories. Avoid those who agree or pretend to and do something else for one month . You can always go back to reading about the Jews controlling the world and the weather in a month. Focus on getting to a healthier place and do your own inventory and not everyone else’s. It has to have occurred to you that you are exactly where you have always been. G.

    • Patrick: I do have some agreements with Gretchen on this one. I’m wondering if harboring conspiracy theories is a way to instill a sense of excitement in the dull drudgery of normal life. Life can be empty for many people. You’re retired now with a lot of time on your hands, aren’t you? Maybe conspiracies fill a need for added excitement in life? I could be wrong. Just a thought.

      I also wonder if much of modern anti-Semitism has its roots in a person feeling cheated financially for whatever reason. This statement might be considered obvious by some, and disagreed with by others, though.

  200. Jack says:

    Sorry to repeat myself here … BUT I felt the need. “All I can know is how I feel”
    All else is questionable … especially from other poeple. BUT my feelings are NOT questionable. They belong to me … to me and for me ONLY. In that sense I am alone in my own head. Said another way I am the only person in my universe. All else is something, I FEEL, other creatures don’t get involved in … only us humans … as far as I can tell.

    Why I say all this is just reading all today’s comments on the blog, I could very easily get into a response with everyone. SO!!!! I decided; after some consideration, to make this a general response, with two exceptions. We all have feeling about others that we either know personally, hearing them, or through reading their comments. We’d not be human if we didn’t.

    If I know anything about human psychology (which I grant is questionable) I would like to hope that in expressing our sentiments we could be clear and simple. Alas, I feel that many comments here, (mine included) fail that test. Not by way of being critical, BUT as my general obsevation.
    I would claim, BUT I grant I could well be wrong, that the greatest culprits are both Patrick and Guru (each in their own different ways).

    To Guru I would suggest (soley my suggestion) you use simple words (we are all aware that you have an extensive vocabulary), AND that you acknowledge that beneath your comments is a very simple feeling; that I sense, many here see through.

    To Patrick: that you stay away from your Ideas and even views and state simply, what your “gripe” is about:- a) Primal Therapy, b) those that seeme to fail to grasp your deep inner meaning AND c) to the world in general. It is clear that you have world views emenating from what you see and read.
    It was for that reason that I had hoped to divert your attention away from some of the above by mentioning Richard David Wolff’s ideas on capitalism … derived, as I see it, from his readings of Carl Marx.

    Ok; back to me … I’m especially into this particular blog since I want to get back as far as I am able, to what I lost … especially by not having the ‘daddy’ I needed, and even from some very few things I didn’t quite get from my ‘mammy’. It was on reading “The Primal Scream” I saw the potential to leave my near paradise of a home on that hill-top in Ibiza and come all the way to Los Angeles to get this therapy … that I thought then, as now, was the greatest thing I could EVER give myself. I continue that process through this blog … plus ‘buddying’.

    So far; I have no regrets.


  201. Margaret says:

    went tango dancing this afternoon, it had been at least 6 months ago, and I was apprehensive, but I had a great time.
    am still a bit tipsy from one glass of white wine in the end.
    but really enjoyed the dancing, my former regular dancepartner is very playful in his dancing, so we had a lot of fun.
    I danced several times with my former dance teacher and that too went very well, always nice..
    on the moments I had to sit and wait I enjoyed listening to the music.
    feet a bit sore but satisfied!
    now still 20 comments to read from the blog, hope they are worth the effort..

  202. Patrick says:

    These words in my head this morning John Lennon’ song. All this ‘science’ and ‘research’ blah blah blah weather stations transmitting ‘data’ but nobody looks in the sky over their heads in LA yesterday nobody can convince me we are not being sprayed like bugs not today give us a day off lol…………….maybe tomorrow. Phil just start looking just observe……………..

    Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
    And you think you’re so clever and classless and free
    But you’re still fucking peasants as far as I can see
    A working class hero is something to be
    A working class hero is something to be

    Read more: John Lennon – Working Class Hero Lyrics | MetroLyrics

  203. Margaret says:

    wow, read a number of comments so far and they were almost all just the usual psychotic rants…
    those poor innocent feather clouds even get accused and insulted, ha!

    • Patrick says:

      You are one to talk you can’t even see them. That might sound like an insult and even something I will regret later but get real Margaret you do not have a fucking clue what you are talking about. You do talk and can talk and you do and you want me ‘banned’ every few weeks but shut up about stuff you know nothing about. Do you ‘see’ the clouds’ what do you ‘see’ when you see them. I have had enough of you for a long time always with your effing remarks. Stick to what you know about.

      • Sylvia says:

        Gee Margaret, as I tally it you are owed at least a hundred thousand dollars by now from Patrick at a hundred dollars a pop per insult.


  204. Margaret says:

    UG, I have read up to your comment about the Irish insulting and smoothing up, the problem is that after apologizing Patrick always goes back to insulting almost immediately.
    and it is getting worse and really out of line. Jo’s post was very matter of fact and informative and not unfriendly at all, and there he goes calling her a dope and what else, whatever, I am quick with the delete button lately..
    you are being overly kind in this case I fear, which is nice but wasted probably.

  205. Margaret says:

    ha Patrick, truth hurts doesn’t it? a Dtutch saying…
    for your information, I have seen those kind of clouds you mentioned, fishbone, mackerel, we call them feather clouds, etc., and as I mentioned a while ago I already liked looking up to the trails of planes at about 4 years old.
    but well, you are beyond any reasoning so I am wasting my breath.
    and you could not insult me about being blind, as it is nothing to be ashamed about anyway.
    but it illlustrates something about you that you do try to do so despite your own second thoughts.
    and hey, it does actually amuse me you get irritated by my brief observations.
    truth hurts, right?

  206. Margaret says:

    p.s. even those text messages written in the sky already existed in the early sixties, I vividly remeber a small plane leaving an SOS with its white vapour or whatever trail, way back when I was in primary school.
    and in L>A> I once saw the message: God loves you, followed by a phone number.
    God or Satan, who knows, haha!

  207. Margaret says:

    hi Sylvia,
    yeah, right, haha, but it is more likely to just remain verbal diarrhea and fool’s gold I’m afraid.

  208. Phil says:

    There is a very good website called ""
    I can't share the link on the blog for some reason. Google it and it will come right up.
    I think it's got a lot of good information.

  209. Margaret says:

    thinking of you and Bisky.

  210. Leslie says:

    Yet again – another new cyber bullying low Patrick. I cannot fathom that you think and write what you do and in your desperation write what you did to Margaret… It is beyond pathetic.
    It is mental illness.
    The very saddest part to me though is that you don’t have a true friend or family member there for you and with you – helping you navigate getting help.

  211. Patrick says:

    Well I do feel a bit ‘shame faced’ about yesterday more to Jo mostly. I just want to say Jo I am sorry and also if it matters to you I do like and appreciate your posts mostly I feel you are honest and sincere in what you write about. To explain if not to excuse Monday here in LA as I said before was literally wall to wall spraying all day. What started out as a lovely blue morning by afternoon was a total white mess in the sky. And they STILL kept on spraying. So………….I feel frustrated by the arrogance and the way we are being treated like a bunch of dumb asses who I suppose are supposed to just sit here and take it and tell ourselves nonsense like these are just ‘condensation trails’ just water vapor pay no mind. So when then on Tuesday moring I write about this and Jo to me starts to use her ‘knowledge’ to ‘explain’ it all away how it all normal these are ‘makerel’ clouds and yes she knows about all this is even a kind of ‘expert’………….it’s like give me a break I have eyes to see what is happening and for me it ties into quite a few things. Also the “English” thing the tone (in my mind) like “I will have you know you Irish peasant my father was quite a la de dah in all this and he knows something or a lot about it unlike you. So that’s a personal thing too but the main thing I feel is a sense of urgency like why don’t anyone DO anything about this. Then I get frustrated with ‘primallers’ I think here we go AGAIN always ‘;missing in action’ a bunch of useless talkers (and eaters!) who never get committed to ANYTHING the world could be up to it’s ears in floods or fires and all they would do is relate it to some ‘old feeling’ It’s like when Janov (or Jack) finally die they will come back and explain how it connected to some big ‘old feeling’ Some much it just seems a recipe for withdrawing and an excuse to ever DO anything. Also taken way too far so I picture Jo also in this light doesn’t matter the real and present urgency always fall back back to a childhood ‘memory’ and then the job it done it’s alll good and they can and do ‘relax’ like they have ‘achieved’ something. Really?

    Margaret I have a bit different thing going on when I see her mocking what I am saying about the clouds I think I have spent a LOT of time on this…………….last year I went to a ‘chemtrail’ conference in Vancouver, I went to the UK and Ireland in the Summer and met several of the main ‘activists’ even stayed at their homes for a few days I have read several books on the subject and all Summer I watched the skies and ‘made notes’. Here I still go to a monthly meeting about it…………………… then here comes Margaret with what I perceive as ‘mocking’ and I think Jesus Christ lady what do YOU know? And I’m thinking nothing probably but she feels free to mock me and maybe once again will start one of her ‘banning’ petitions. So yes it pisses me off she talks about all kinds of stuff it does not bother me fine it’s what she is into but why can’t she allow me esp as I actually have done a lot of work, time, energy, expense etc on the subject. I am sorry to get as personal as I did but it’s an instant thing like here this lady as a matter of fact can’t really see the skies and here is me who has spent the last year looking pretty intently but she can mock me and make out I am some clueless idiot……………….she can say that of course and I will not ask to ‘ban’ her either but give me a break put yourself in check and I suppose above all stop your banning nonsense. I even say Gretchen got her partial banning behavior from you. I understand you live in Belgium which seems a horror story for ‘free speech’ and people are jailed there for normal historical inquiry and the country paid 200 million or something because they did not do ‘enough’ to prevent the ‘holocaust’. I wonder what ‘court’ decided that one! To me that is a joke of a country should not even be called a country maybe a Zionist protectorate or province and you want the rest of the world to be like that…………………… thanks

    So anyway maybe now I just make things worse but I did want to explain myself a bit esp to Jo and who knows one time maybe I can learn from you Jo about ‘weather’ and ‘clouds’ I don’t actually know so much just more my observations as a child and also now. I am convinced there is something quite nefarious going on but that’s for another day

    • Jo says:

      I accept your apology Patrick, maybe that’s where you should have stopped…you’re already trying to reiterate insulting me – it’s not helpful to either of us to second guess what I’m thinking- and as Gretchen says “…do your own inventory and not everyone else’s.”

    • Jack says:

      Each morning I get up and look into the sky to see where those white things I call “clouds” are, relative to the sun.
      I can only assume in Irish Gaelic they call those white things “chemtrails”.

      If there is spraying going on up there, I ask:- “is it being done with HOT AIR balloons, drones (didn’t know drones could reach that high) OR aircraft. I didn’t think there were enough aircraft to do all that spraying ALL over the planet … AND what are they spraying? and for what reason??????

      This morning I discovered there were three people in the planet that had gotten it ALL figured out. They are:- Donald J. Trump, Patrick Griffing, and my Jimbo.
      Oh!!! that is such a relief !!!!!


    • Phil says:

      You should be able to see, or maybe have experienced, that rigid belief in these conspiracy theories leaves you open to ridicule. That’s because they are so ridiculous. You can easily find massive amounts of information on the internet debunking them, which the average person doesn’t even need to make use of, because they defy logic and common sense.
      Your apparent belief in a whole menu of conspiracies has had me wondering about your mental state for some time now. I can understand you post about it because that’s what’s on your mind but what kind of reactions do you expect?

  212. Margaret says:

    that is so sad..

  213. Patrick says:

    Jack I thought you would find this interesting it’s called “The man who quit money”

    • Jack says:

      There have been lots that lived without money. They’re called Hermits.


      • Erron says:

        There’s a name for my condition?!?

      • Phil says:

        Howard Hughes was a hermit and one of the worlds richest men of his time. Yet, he died from dehydration, malnutrition, and neglect. What about that?

        • Phil says:

          Google seems to know everything so I asked it the question “can money buy love?”
          in relation questions about money and hermits. It seems to me that hermits suffer from a lack of love, even Howard Hughes.
          Google”s answer:
          ” Money can help to generate love but it cannot buy love—at most, it can buy sex. It is, however, easier to fall in love with a rich person, as money can generate circumstances that are more favorable for love, and living with someone who is wealthy can make life easier”
          Does Google have it right?

          • Phil says:

            Billie Holiday sang that “empty pockets don” make the grade”
            Guys can’t be empty handed on Valentines Day, can they? No wild flowers around here to pick in February.

          • Jack says:

            Phil: I bought and read a book many years ago:- “The Seven Laws of Money” I lent Patrick the book and it took quite some time to get it back from him

            Then after he broke into my trailer … just before coming on this blog … in his pure raging anger about me … I got the impression on leaving the house he took that book back off my bookshelf. It took me some hours after he broke into my trailer, to discover the book was gone.

            The author was Michael Phillips (author of “The New World Catalog”) and co-written by a tramp who called himself “Book and Candle”


            • Jack says:

              Phil: I meant in that last comment to add that in that book “Seven Laws of Money” the last law was:- “There are Worlds Without Money” … ‘love’ being one of them. Those that try to get love from the one with lots of it … discover … to their chagrin … that IS NOT REAL LOVE. Rather … hoping/desiring to live in relative comfort.

              There’s a tendency, I feel, these people are content to live without love OR worse try to get in on the ‘side’. It kinda doesn’t really work out. Love is not for sale. Try asking Patrick !!!!!! (: ): .


            • Patrick says:

              Now you are turning into a straight (if that word can ever be used about you) liar. This is all fiction you idiot! Maybe you ARE losing your mind

              • Jack says:

                Patrick: there is always the possibility that I am losing my mind. Meantime, it would seem that many on this blog feel you lost yours some time ago. Since you are 20 years my junior, it would appear that so far I have done quite well … considering.

                On the question of “lies” and “lying”, for someone seemingly well invested into all the “lies” taking place out there in the world at large, I can only assume you have some great credentials.

                If indeed I was lying, it was inadvertent. I doubt you would deny that I lent you the book in question, and that you did finally return it to me. I did have evidence that you broke into my trailer and we have, in the past gone into all this. Your stated reason at the time was:- that you were intent on confronting me, since I’d put the phone down on you three times. It was there-in-after that you came on the blog … to;- as far as possible, confront me. All by my reckoning:- “a storm in a a tea-cup” … since your desire was to be the go-between the new owners of Gentle Giant and myself with the delivery of the software ‘MovePro’.

                If any the above is still not accurate … state which portions, and I’ll give it consideration.


                • Patrick says:

                  You will give it ‘consideration’ will you? You pompous prick! the self appointed ‘judge’ to so many things.Are you still missing that book? You have gall to imply I took it. What an ass wipe.

            • Patrick says:

              I didn’t ‘break into your trailer’ ass wipe. If I had there would be some damage to the trailer and there was none I know there could not have been because it did not happen. Did you ever ‘find’ that book? You must be running out of material to dredge all this up again. Has FOSSIL man run out of fossils to dredge up. Give us another of your “Greatest Hits” FOSSIL man! Play it one more time Sam! FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL FOSSIL were you trying to ‘buy’ love in the men’s bathrooms, what was that? Talk about that FOSSIL man and let me work out my own problems.

              • Jack says:

                Patrick: I thought I had sent a reply but on checking could not find it. if this is a repeat … sorry all, about that.

                Patrick: I would like to clear up a couple of points as far as I am able to remember them.

                The first is that you stated, you did not break into my trailer as the door was closed, but not locked and you opened it and entered … but found I was not there.

                The reason I felt you broke into my trailer was that it was off it’s runners which I discovered on my return. That suggested to me you lifted the door off the runners in order to enter.

                I did not say you took the book. I assumed you might have. since I knew you liked the book and did not return it after several time of asking you. You did however, eventually return it. It was only after I discovered you had entered my trailer that I missed the book. I often referenced it.

                As for my sexuality and my sex addiction, in the case of using public restrooms, is not something I have EVER tried to hide. However, I do not feel it would be appropriate to go into detail about it on this, or any other blog. I doubt anyone would be interested in the details.


                • Patrick says:

                  so you did not say I took the book? So what the fuck are you talking about it then. Something that DIDN’T happen over 5 years ago. What is your point mouther fucker?Play with your FOSSILS yourself I don’t want to be caught up in it. You can’t ‘break’ me even with all the help here from your primallers you CANNOT BREAK ME and you won’t. So you say your father tried to ‘break’ you keep to that mouthier fucker keep it to that. .Stop ‘acting it out’ on me you use your own fossilized jargon

        • Jack says:

          Phil: Not sure if you were responding to me or, about the use of the word “hermit” Not all hermits are/were penniless and not all penniless people are hermits

          I was just really trying to say ” Yes I know there are many that live without money and even many more that try to live without it. In a world, were everything costs money it’s very hard to live without it. Should it get abolished completely … then living without it would be easy … and my take on all that is if it did occur: most would say “Why did we not think about this before?”


          • Phil says:

            Something will have to change if only because the economy in coming years will be transformed by automation and robotics. I’ve seen predictions of 45% of jobs being lost due to these changes, starting with 3.5 million truck drivers. Driver-less trucks are expected to roll out sooner than cars. There may be a permanent situation of an economy without enough jobs. A guaranteed minimum salary for everyone might have to be put in effect in the US, Not the same as abolishing money but maybe a step in the right direction.
            If everyone has enough money do you think that eliminates money as a problem?

            • Jack says:

              Phil: If indeed you wish to renew this dialog I am all game. However, I expect you are not really. If that is the case I will just add one point in response your comment to me.

              I agree, that in