Letter to Barry by Shane Roberts page 2

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308 Responses to Letter to Barry by Shane Roberts page 2

  1. Thomas Verzar says:

    It looks like we now have ads on this blog.
    Bummer.

  2. Jo says:

    Otto, I experienced a spouse leaving for a month or two, returning for 2 weeks, repeated over 8 months, in his case working abroad.. it was an horrific adjustment each time – his return, and then departure. This was early ’80’s, and I was unconscious and a mess in many ways… I can understand more about that now. I can understand how you feel about Z’s return,

    • Phil says:

      Subscribing
      It’s hard coming back to work after the long holiday weekend, I’m in favor of a 4 day work week (or shorter),

  3. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    it is nice to hear you babbling, smiley..
    hopefully you will be able to talk with your wife when you need to, you seem to have come a long way in the past years, we are always here.
    M

  4. Donal says:

    Phil,

    I vote for four – 6 hour days: 10AM to 6PM. Not very likely to occur, at least not with a full salary I could live on, but would make a huge difference. More sleep, more time away for work,……it all adds to physical and mental health.

    I am always amazed at how much difference just one long weekend makes.

    Donal

  5. Otto Codingian says:

    jo now that i have had some uninterrupted time for myself for a change (except for work, work, taking care of everything), i dont want to give nothing to anyone, (or is that anything to no one?). nothing to nobody. at this minute, i am waiting on milady since she needs tax info for her student loan. she is trying to figure out what is needed. all i want to do is take an hour for myself after a long day of labor. oh boy.

  6. Otto Codingian says:

    jo not to be insensitive, but i love to see or hear a woman raging or screaming. at the pi, i mean, not in my home. men raging, not so much. i can get that on the freeway. of course, insensitive. sorry. i am not saying i find a woman raging attractive or anything, i just think it strikes a chord deep inside of me. how freeing. men’s anger a bit scarier to me, maybe.

  7. Otto Codingian says:

    Margaret, thanks for being here. i think i am going to hit a spot of psychosis at some point. maybe in about 20 years, and it is good to know there are caring people on the other side of this ridiculously insane invention (the internet). i will hit that spot only if i cry every saturday for the next 20 years. this blog is so helpful. i can’t talk on the phone or in person much, for some dark reason(s).

    • Larry says:

      I’m glad this blog is helpful to you, Otto. I find it’s presence expands my consciousness and helps me to primal even when I’m not writing here, I guess because I know I’m not completely alone but have primal peers.

  8. Otto Codingian says:

    well could not resist this one They were not sure how their adopted cat would react to their baby https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORtJxPkwaRo

  9. Otto Codingian says:

    sorry, here’s another one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eTg29urlZg Soldier Welcomed Home by Excited Cat

  10. Otto Codingian says:

    ok only one more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE5iZsQTflw Girl Surprises Parents after Traveling Video 2017 | Daily Heart Beat
    i don’t remember getting this kind of reception much.

  11. Sylvia says:

    Otto, so sweet the white kitty licking the baby’s head. They have a special communication going. Thanks for the video.

  12. Otto Codingian says:

    ok. talk, about asking for what you need, and then actually getting it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_195095373&feature=iv&src_vid=KPclyCUIaX0&v=zxeeysNrEvM
    Cat demands petting
    m, if you want to me to describe, i will. just basically cats reaching paw out to human to be petted and then getting petted. good banjo music. good night.

    • Sylvia says:

      Otto, liked this video too of all the cats asking to be petted. One of my kitties is like that. He nudges with his head until he pushes hard into my hand, very affectionate and tame but still likes to escape for a couple hours to the back yard to explore.

  13. Margaret says:

    Otto, I did listen to and could see some parts of the videos, which still make me smile. one of my cats came to sit next to me attracted by the meows.
    I also liked the way the wife finally said ‘and now I need you too’.
    keeping them to show them to a girlfriend, thanks, smiley
    M

  14. Otto Codingian says:

    Larry, you said it! Margaret, sorry i did not follow thru, tired. Sylvia, that was one pretty baby, glad you like. haven’t held a baby in a while. sometimes they stink.

  15. Otto Codingian says:

    ok if you like loving parents and babies and cats and dogs, see TheMeanKitty channel on youtube. good music too. must be professional photographer. mom and dad holding new baby and showing to their pets Pets Meet Baby For The First Time! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05t5LvpuobI#t=125.07649
    TITLE: 2 DAYS AGO MY WIFE AND I HAD OUR FIRST CHILD
    NOW ITS TIME TO INTRODUCE OUR PETS
    music starts, the color and clarity are remarkable
    young dad and mom sitting on couch
    dad in grey or black tree shirt and baseball cap, tatoo peaking out from sleeve
    backlit kind of so their faces are kind of darker than the sun streaming thru the window behind
    mom sitting next to dad on couch grey teeshirt, her big belly deflated kind of, a picture of great beauty, smiling
    dad holding whaf must be the baby covered in white blanket
    b

  16. Otto Codingian says:

    m, too hard to describe, too many details, wish you could see it. wordpress needs to have sound and not just text. dad pulls baby down into his lap. baby with full head of hair and only 2 days old? calico cat comes up and does the cat head bob where they see something new. dad is showing baby to cat. dad is handsome, even for me who hates millenials.
    next scene camera looks from other side, mom is closest to camera. she is cute, brown hair done up in a bun or something. dad still holding baby in lap. black and white cat comes up. cat post in background. windows behind the couple, out of focus greenery seen thru window. dad looks at cat and moves baby towards cat. now camera goes to previous angle with dad in foreground, actually white and black cat is in foreground, with butt towards us, and tail straight up in air, mom and dad both looking at cat.

  17. Otto Codingian says:

    these are short scenes, now back to previous angle, mom in front, chihuahua kind of dog jumps up onto mom’s leg, dad reaches out to pet dog, mom and dad smiling. mom now holding baby. baby’s hair sticking out of his white blanket looks like mom’s hair. dad pets dog, mom moves face toward dog and dog gives a faux dog kiss to her. then smells baby’s head. the color in this video is remarkable. dog is brown. then he wags his tail and starts to lay down in dad’s lap. ok short scenes. back to white and black cat. i don’t know who is more beautiful, dad or mom. dad is a hunk.

  18. Otto Codingian says:

    i have not sat on a couch with anyone for a long time. even before z left, i stayed in my room. tv bores the crap out of me, same old crap.

  19. Otto Codingian says:

    dad kind of looks like adam sandler maybe, ok dad hold baby again. calico or tortoise shell cat sits next to mom staring at baby. man looks at cat. maybe this guy is just a bit more into pets than even me. mom is gorgeous. next scene, dog jumps off dad’s lap, mom is rocking baby in her arms, maybe cooing to baby as she looks at baby. dog jumps back up on dad’s lap, dad is gently patting his own chest to urge dog to jump up. ok almost halfway thru. i have to pee.

  20. Otto Codingian says:

    i think i was kind of this happy when phd kid was born. neither of us had to go to work, i only had to go to school sometimes. it was less happy with chef kid, struggle with work, both of us, the modern day dilemna. this was when pi was on colby, i think.

  21. Otto Codingian says:

    ok more of same. mom breastfeeding. dad rubs dog’s throat. now the torty licking baby’s dark hair. mom with broad smile, dad hold baby. title: SUCCESS and shot of mom probably just after giving birth, ba by with one of those hospital baby caps on. closeup of baby’s face, yawns or something. ok 20 more of these to look at goodnight. not getting enough sleep lately because of watching youtube.

  22. Otto Codingian says:

    i dont hate millenials. just jealous. cranky old man, me.

  23. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    thank you so much for giving me this treat , those nice long detailed descriptions mixed in with your own thoughts and feelings, a really nice start of my day!

    specially this morning, just before waking up had two dreams about being in group.

    first dream was a welcome kind of group still in LA before start of the retreat. plenty of people squeezed together, which I kind of like, all just being close to each other.
    barry and another male therapist seemed to be leading the group, and I started feeling somewhat bad about not having greeted Barry yet, or needy.
    then barry and some others got up to open the door for more people, I got up too as I was near the door, and had the intention to say hi to and hug Barry. but all of a sudden it became clear he had actually left, leaving the group to the other therapist..
    of course I could not blame him with a long retreat ahead the next day, but I felt overwhelmed with sadness and started to cry, and woke up being very aware of missing him..
    M

  24. Margaret says:

    second dream, other setting, other group.
    actually in the former group there was another event, when some people started talking with each other, a girl sitting fairly close to me spoke up saying it bothered her when people do that, she sounded a bit apologetic, and looked very open and nice, I liked her.
    she said she preferred everyone to listen to people talking and I leaned over to her to touch her knee with my fingertips and I said, ‘sure, you would like them to listen to you..’
    I wanted to let her know it was ok, and fine she said so..
    mm, yeah, I could relate, smiley..
    M

  25. Margaret says:

    next group extract
    someone talking, and a lady leaving but giving that person a big bag of cookies, to give away..
    it did already start to trigger me, feeling an observer of how other people like each other, me not feeling like deserving it, if it might occur it would be temporary until they would turn away from me with disgust or something..
    the man with the cookies got up, came in the direction of where I was sitting with a bunch of other people, could not see where he was looking to, and as he came closer, and chances increased he might be coming my way with the cookies, I kind of shrinked away, overwhelmed with the certainty it could not be true, that it was impossible, no chance for anyone to want to come to me, just seeing me, not knowing me, knowing I am blind, no eye contact, and the knowledge, or idea I might be needing extra help when becoming a steady friend. who would pick me out like that? none, I could not allow myself the hope, it was a lost case, so overwhelmed with sudden awareness of hopelessness….
    M

  26. Margaret says:

    group again, siting on other spot..
    guy talking, gay guy, referring to himself as sodomist, clearly being in a struggle still about his sexuality. I was sitting in an easy chair, squeezed up with a guy next to me, and I thought of Jack and how he was more at ease with his sexuality, and as for some reason I thought he was the one sitting next to me, I put my arm around his shoulders without giving it much thought. then the guy next to me said ‘wow’, and as I looked I realized it was someone else, a slender blond guy, and that I should have known as i had already looked at him.
    I said sorry, thought you were Jack, and started feeling bad for being , or feeling too unaware, or indifferent myself, making him feel as if he did not matter or count..
    mm, could relate as well there I guess…
    M

  27. Margaret says:

    woke up then, with strong feeling about the isolating effect of my blindness, increasing the old feeling of being an outsider, of making no chance to be part of things, not trusting a friendship could be strong and lasting with me, people would get tired of me, or not even be inclined to reach out to me, feeling of disposability, of not mattering, not being of any interest whatsoever, of being a turnoff..
    I don’t even mention romance, ha!
    no fun feelings, but in the meantime encouraging to be able to have these two group dreams and get to some feelings in them..
    and then to get nicely surprised with the morning blog mail and Otto’s splendid descriptions.
    I sent a few of the other links, which were detectable in the comments, sometimes they are not, but Otto’s usually are, to my brother and a few friends.
    girlfriend liked them a lot, and was moved to tears by some of the rescuing of wild animals videos on the site as well.
    thanks again, Otto

  28. Larry says:

    Here’s one for you Otto. Thanks to Irena for introducing me to this.

  29. Jo says:

    I love Simon’s cat!!

  30. Otto Codingian says:

    funny!

  31. Otto Codingian says:

    margaret, i don’t know what to say to you about your pain, but i am glad you told your dreams to us. thanks.

  32. Otto Codingian says:

    hopelessness is a bitch. hard for me to fight it off sometimes.

  33. Margaret says:

    Otto, thanks for your kind words.
    and yes, hopelessness tends to be so paralyzing. I find the only way, not always possible, is to try to overrule the feeling with the rational part of brain still working, and to start doing what seems best despite the feeling…
    usually the hopelessness wears off when being active..
    in that way it is a great helps to have my cats around, they are one great way to get me up and about, if only just to take care of them, and then the routine gets me going..
    Larry, I could not make out very much from Simon’s cat so far, not enough contrasts for me, but a girlfriend is coming over for lunch, a great cat lover and i will watch the video with her and let her tell me about what goes on.
    M

  34. Margaret says:

    ok, girlfrind described Simon’s cat. at first felt disappointed a bit upon hearing it was no video but a cartoon, but as my friend kept cracking up at relating what went on it turned out to be funny and familiar , typical cat behavior, smiley
    cheered my friend up as well, thanks Larry,
    M

  35. Margaret says:

    today when I was sitting on a nice terrace with my girlfriend, we ended up talking about feelings of not counting. she in relation to or triggered by her partner, but on a deeper level connected to suicides in her family and other stuff.
    I talked about my recent dreams and the feeling of hopeless certainty nothing was gonna come my way, relating it to my dad, and to how as a little girl all I could do was just go sit near where he was doing something, or be in the garden near to where he was working on his car.
    she asked me, so you were just sitting there waiting patiently until something came your way?
    and then , when I replied ‘no, not expecting anything really, knowing it was not gonna come, just being there and not expecting anything ‘, the sadness got suddenly triggered, and I knew all the feeling of not being of any interest have their roots there..
    now thinking back of it some more, it relates to me as that same little girl sometimes venturing up to the easy chair where my dad was reading the newspaper, and stand beside him and look up to his face. then he would look at me, neutral face, and very briefly,split second, just pull his mouth into a phony smile, and let it drop back immediately to neutral, and repeating it and then staring at me finally with the neutral face.
    i think I just went away feeling very confused, telling myself it was kind of a joke he made, but now I feel how it hurt me, as all it seems to say is , maybe for him subconsciously, ‘ I know you want me to smile at you, I don’t feel like it, don’t want to, can’t do it, whatever, so here is what you get’…
    he really only moved his mouth , rest of face and eyes nothing, this quick phony fake smile, intentionally, and right away back to nothing..
    what is the message, nothing to get here, don’t want to give, engage, rejection..
    M

    • Sylvia says:

      Margaret, a vivid memory for you of your dad’s facial expressions to you and his interest in the paper more than in your need for attention. Good insights in how that is bound to your feeling and outlook of the present and that you are not expecting much from the future. Looks like you will be free of that when feeling more about it and then be able to have more hope.
      S

    • Larry says:

      An awakening to a painful insight Margaret.

      Over and over I’m amazed how this therapy leads us to our pain where we alone have to deal with it. Why would anyone want to go there? Who would believe such a therapy would work? Yet it is the only route some of us seek, for we know that descending into the trauma is the only route that heals.

  36. Margaret says:

    Larry,
    I guess the intrinsic reward is the truth, and recovering the wholeness of one’s original feelings, it feels like healing.
    but while chronic pain diminishes, when we have to deal with present loss it goes deep, excruciatingly deep.
    but real ..

    and Sylvia, It helps you hoping this is a turning point of my hopelessness , smiley
    M

  37. Larry says:

    I’m surprised how I am fairly busy in retirement. So far I’ve not felt time to be weighing heavily. There are some projects with the Unitarian church that I participate in, that matter to me and keep me engaged with that community. I have a few photography friends that I keep in touch with. I go to some events with the singles social group. Two or three mornings at sunrise I head out to do my volunteer part in a breeding bird survey running from June to mid-August, which I’m very excited to be involved in. Now and then I hook up with friends or acquaintances to take in a movie, a concert or a public event. I try to get to the gym 3 times a week and sometimes have a nice talk with someone there, catching up on our lives. I have a few events/adventures lined up for the summer, the retreat being one of them. I’m surprised how well retirement is unfolding so far. I don’t miss the workplace much yet, at least not after I have the cry and get the feeling out.

    Every few l days I do feel filled with molasses–find it hard to get going. Lucky for me I can spend the day at home, let the dam break and the feelings spill out. There seems to be a theme to them taking shape.

    I like to read books on origins. The biggest mystery for me is how this all came to be. A couple of books in that vein that I have read recently and that have stirred my imagination of our deep past are “The Cradle of Humanity…How the changing landscape of Africa made us so smart” by Mark Maslin, and “The Mind In the Cave…Consciousness and the origins of art”, how we became human and began to make art, by David Lewis-Williams. In tandem with imagining humankind’s beginnings as inspired by these books, my personal, once mystical long distant past is feeling more and more real to me.

    Every now and then it hits me like a bus that retirement is a lifestyle change that can’t be reversed. I’ll not get my job back. I’ll not get younger. I’ll not return to when my wife and I found ourselves falling in love. Then I feel oppressed by the responsibility I have for my life now. At such times I wish I could be back in the workplace, cradled by the structure, the routine and the familiar people around me. I sink into the feeling of wanting to not be alone, of being on my own and afraid. I cry missing my wife, the only person ever with whom I’ve shared a life commitment and trust. I cry wishing we could have made more of our life together, knowing as I do now that her life would end too soon. I cry that our time together was but a moment in infinity and there is no return, no revision, no repeat. I cry wanting to hold on to her for one final forever, when with her sparkling eyes she last glanced at me, smiled briefly, then wound down and away for eternity. I cry at the pure pain of never having her near me again, ever. I cry the hurt of a loss that can’t be undone. I marvel at how much hurt there is. I marvel that our species has such depth of feeling of connection with one another. I cry that I can’t live it over more fully, to feel more connected and involved with the people that I love. I cry that my connection in the past to the people that mean life to me was so shallow. I cry that I can’t go back to have a second chance to do it better. I cry that the indifferent, merciless light of time shines upon us now, but iwill move on, leaving us to become fossils and then dust, maybe to one day be radio carbon dated if there is anyone looking.

    I cry that I was cheated out of having an optimal one and only crack at life, too short, too shallow, too filled with fear and pain because my parents couldn’t love me.

    For me, this music dissolves the dam and lets the pain spill out.

    • Thomas Verzar says:

      Hi Larry
      What an incredibly touching post about your life, post retirement.
      How you grieve for your wife. The loss of connectedness you felt for her, the togetherness you felt with her.
      You’re pulling my heart strings.
      Keep it up.
      Tom V

      • thomas verzar says:

        Larry
        The longer I play this music, the more haunting it becomes.
        It reminds me of utter loneliness. All by yourself out in desert. Nobody around. Nor will there be anyone around. Not now, not ever.
        Tom

  38. Larry says:

    What heartstrings related to your life are pulled, Tom?

    • thomas verzar says:

      Hi Larry and Margaret
      ” I cry wanting to hold on to her for one final forever….”
      I go out to the cemetery once in a while to be with my Mum. On the way there I already start to get tearful.
      I want to be near her by the graveside, so that a miracle would occur, she would come to me and hold me, touch me, caress me, look into my eyes……………..and finally I’ll be one with her.
      Nothing in my life comes close to it. Ever.
      I hate going shopping, as it reminds me that nothing is “IT”, what I want I can’t have. What I want I can’t buy. And I end up extremely disappointed.
      CAN I HAVE MY MUM FOR A MOMENT PLEASE? Can I have that imagined togetherness, Please. I’ll do anything.
      Oh Mum!!!!!!
      I go for a walk 4-5 times a week,at Barry’s suggestion, down to thee beach and back. Started a few weeks ago. It felt strange. On the way home I wanted to lie down on the sidewalk and go to sleep. At least I stopped thinking about swimming way out into the ocean and die.
      Yes, lately I’ve been wanting to die. I feel weighed down by life,feeling utterly lonely, in spite of having family and friends. Wanting to end it all. Stop the utter SADNESS, despair, hopelessness. I cannot come terms that I’ll never get what I didn’t get as a baby, toddler.
      I still fantasize that one day I’ll find a way. Oh Mum!
      “Maybe if I go out to the cemetery today, you’ll come to me and hold me” Oh Mum!! Hold me. Caress me. Touch me. Look into my eyes and we’ll become one.
      I wake up every morning to a feeling of loss. And it just grows during the day. Every day.
      Never any fulfillment. Ever.
      Barry asked the other day what could he do to make my stay in LA and Santa Barbara “pleasant”.
      As in day one of my therapy/group when I was asked what do I want, I couldn’t answer it. I got angry. The question HURT me.
      “You are the therapist, you “should” know what to give me. When was the last time a baby was able to say to his Mum……….Mum! Give me this. Or that. And then life will be good. We’ll be one.
      It still feels I am not doing it right. I’m Huuuuuuuurting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Someone! Reach out to me! Hold me. Caress me!
      That’s what is going on with me. Day in and day out. Night and day.
      And I want to give in to the pain. But I can’t seem to. I am 100% convinced that if I did, I would die.
      Oh! Why do I feel like an orphan?
      Gretchen! You’re a Mum. I saw you with your daughter a few years ago on the Westside Pavilion roof car park walking side by side. You two were one.
      Oh! It hurts! I’m crying now. The longing for my Mum is unbearable.
      This is what’s going on with me, every day.
      Tom

  39. Margaret says:

    Tom, long time no read! how are you and what has been going on with you?
    Margaret

  40. Margaret says:

    just saw an interview with a Belgian restaurant owner, who was right in the middle of the terror attack in London with a few customers in his restaurant.
    part of what went on during the attack was videotaped.
    the man was still very much affected , as his story is pretty nightmarish.
    when the screaming and running started in the street, he rushed to his restaurant door to close it up, just in time, as one terrorist arrived in front of it at that very moment, holding a 20 centimeter long knife. he started banging on the glass door, and here in his story the Belgian restaurant owner had a hard time talking, they looked each other straight in the eye. especially the hate in those eyes affected him terribly, the amount of hate he saw in the terrorist eyes while he started banging on the glass door, which luckily held him back and resisted his attempts to break in.
    then the terrorist ran across the street to enter another place, and the restaurant owner dimmed all the lights and hid with his customers for the next half hour, until the police could help them to get out of the risk zone..
    it really struck me as it could have been one of my nightmare scenarios, and the poor man was so audibly in shock still. he must have a lot of nightmares ahead about this I am afraid, and a lot of stress.
    so good though he was in time to close that door..
    this attack feels especially bad because of its direct physical atrocity, stabbing people, some of them being stabbed more than ten times, such insane violence..
    and how on earth can anyone prevent actions like these?
    I can only assume those guys were drugged, how else can you do such a thing, stabbing person after person after person?
    or how brainwashed can you be?
    and how mentally sick of course..
    M

  41. Margaret says:

    something is missing when the blog turns so silent..
    M

  42. Margaret says:

    listening to the news and sound and video extracts about the London terrorist attacks works like a trigger to me for tiny baby feelings and wails of distress, fear and sadness. it might be because in this case fear is very ‘acceptable’ and immediate, acute under the circumstances and makes a direct connection for me to this very early instinctive response of distressed baby wails…
    M

  43. Margaret says:

    Tom,
    all that agony must be exhausting.
    could you think of anything anyone could do to help you take the jump into that feeling where you can’t let yourself go?
    even if you might have died then, you would not die in the present.
    it must be so excruciating to be on the threshold all the time, you might have to give up, some day you will be able to do so and it might be a relief if you get into that feeling finally.
    but you will have to grieve the fact you won’t get what you have been craving for so long.
    my thoughts will be with you, as I won’t be there this year.
    M\

  44. Sylvia says:

    I was watching the “Sterile Cuckoo” 1969 movie with a young Liza Minnelli this weekend. She is such a fragile soul in that story. A motherless child whose neglectful father travels leaving her on her own to get by in what she perceives a world of crackpots and weirdos and conformists. There was a couple of scenes that were heart-string-tuggers; where she begs her straight-laced boyfriend to spend the Easter vacation with him because she will be alone again, and also the scene where he makes the suggestion they stay apart for a few weeks. You can just feel her tenuous grip on life loosening even more then. Many of the scenes are on You Tube.
    A mini review for Monday morning.
    S

  45. Larry says:

    Thanks for that movie recommendation, Sylvia. It’s not one that would otherwise be on my radar. I tend to not go that far back in time when I look for a movie to watch. Now that I think about it, when a feeling is near almost any story I watch congeals awareness into a feeling, like setting jelly.

    • Sylvia says:

      Larry, I remember seeing this movie when it came out and wondered what the hoopla was about. Many ‘good’ movies use to bore me. Maybe it is because I’m older now, have some patience, but I can value feelings and I enjoy the art of the story-telling. Being able to have feelings opens the door to so much.

      • Larry says:

        That’s an interesting insight. I have a similar opinion, that the old movies just weren’t as good as today’s, but back then I wasn’t as open and had little life experience by which I could relate to some of them.

  46. Otto Codingian says:

    Sylvia, heart-string tuggers for the entire human race, or did it hit you, what is the word….not “specifically”, cant think, getting old…taking dog to park. did it hit an old feeling of yours or something like that? i love her in cabaret. soulful face, pretty, exhuberant. i will try to remember and rent cuckoo. thanks

    • Sylvia says:

      Otto, I think I was just drawn into the story because it was about their first love and reminded me of how careful we are with each other’s feelings. I suppose I have felt like Liza’s character in trying to hang onto something meaningful in life and not drop into an abyss at times. She seemed to play the role so knowingly, like she had had struggles in her life too. But when I first saw it (many years ago) I do not think I was able to gauge or feel her anxiousness but rather was envious that she could be so vulnerable and that I was not, (being too closed off) if I remember my take on the movie accurately.

  47. Otto Codingian says:

    m, if i start to think about those those terrorists, i will say something not good. suffice it to say, ok i forced myself to delete what i was going to say. creepy..

  48. Phil says:

    Huge feelings tonight. No specific reason that I can see other than it was time for them to come out. Having to do with memories of a lot of anxiety visiting my mother. Just a terrible experience seeing her,and this happened continually.
    What helped tonight with the feelings was imagining getting some kind of sympathy and understanding about this from my father. It didn’t actually happen but I can imagine it, as I did at other times get something from him. It’s a reminder that I still have a whole lot of anxiety to deal with, because that’s what these feelings were mainly about.
    Phil

    • Sylvia says:

      Phil, it sounds like your feelings have their own timing but is good that you can draw on the strength of sympathy from your father to get to them. Looks like the repeatedly reinforced anxious visits with your mom will take many feeling sessions of ‘going there’ to resolve it.
      I know feelings about my mom have lessened from dealing with it every day to only now and then when something actually triggers it.

      S

  49. Erron says:

    on another note: what is up with Art Janov? All the recent posts on his blog are recycled from almost 10 years ago, and he no longer posts comments or replies. I know he was quite ill recently and needed to have an operation. Is everything okay with him, does have anyone know?

  50. Margaret says:

    Phil,
    I agree with Sylvia. and it seeems a good sign in some way, that you got access without a specific trigger, reassuring to know you have arrived at a point you opened up the way into your feelings when the time is there.
    M

  51. Phil says:

    Margaret,
    I was taking out the recycling trash and decided to go to my car to deal with some of my
    internal trash. Unfortunately some of that is also recycled as I have to keep going back to the same scenes.
    Maybe there are some triggers I’m unaware of or just being alive is the trigger.
    Phil

  52. Margaret says:

    I do not feel so good today. have an information evening tonight at the university about the new set up for the courses and exams, the bachelor program and the 4 different specializations of the psychology masters program. had subscribed myself to go, but already felt anxious this morning, and yesterday, but still felt i had to go. they changed the location as well recently to a place I have never been, which made it even scarier, as my current feeling is still not feeling up to a lot of things.
    was going to go anyway, but in the early afternoon a migraine started developing and so I decided to cancel my plans. took some ergotamine, an old fashioned drug which pulls the arteries together which stops the headache, but tends to make me nauseous for a few hours sometimes. today it definitely does, and still feel pretty uncomfortable despite the headache being almost gone..
    feel bad about not being able to go, but also relieved I can stay home..
    did warn my mentor there, who replied I should think of myself in the first place, which felt heartwarming..
    am completely without codeine for over two months in a row now, so this is just one of those things that happen..
    this year, since January, it must have been 4 months on and off without any codeine pill in the house, and I am definitely making progress, every time making the clean time span longer.
    it goes fairly well, except for when I feel like right now, headache, sick cause of the migraine medication, and sore neck and shoulders from some tension..
    had a nightmare about some lady being out to hurt and kill me, me trying to escape, and to put barriers in her way, knowing she would keep showing up as she was so angry with me..
    once I could throw her off some stairs, ha, so I seem to be getting stronger, but she did not fall so would come back.
    and then, bit weird, I saw a black cat sitting there looking at me, and knew it was her too, but in a less threatening way. that made me feel able to switch to another level of my feeling, seemingly, and I started telling her/the cat I was sorry, apologized for whatever I had done, no idea, though in the dream it did make sense…

    it did resolve things instantaneously…
    made me reflect, upon waking up, about whether I felt I needed to apologize to anyone but I did not get far with that , I had already apologized to some and did not feel I should to a person I was mad at some years ago..
    so well, sorry, an intense dream that is still a bit of a mystery, a lot of fear though, and vivid, so I felt like mentioning it hoping it would start making more sense.
    it does not but it does feel good to share it, to just mention my anxiety and fear seems to make it more acceptable or something..
    M

    • Phil says:

      Margaret,
      That’s an interesting dream, that the woman attacking you turned into a cat.
      I hope your nausea goes away soon.
      Phil

  53. Margaret says:

    Phil, haha, yes, I can relate to being alive being a trigger..
    an hour ago I was struggling with some recycling cardboard that would not cooperate with being folded up properly and got very frustrated about it not fitting into the bag … I started cursing and talking to one of my cats who was observing , and said f.. why does life always have to be so difficult?? why always so hard???
    I was aware that there are nice moments but on that very moment it was hard to picture them or to feel there might be some nice moments ahead as well, not only more f.. shit ahead, at least let’s hope so..
    told my cat at least he is perfect, with which he seemed to agree..
    they are my best blood pressure cure, stroking them calms me down invariably..
    M

  54. Margaret says:

    thanks Phil, the nausea is slowly diminishing.
    just heard the news, with an item about a remembrance service for an event in world war 1, exactly 100 years ago.
    the Germans had settled themselves firmly on some hills around Ieper, the little town that caused the name Yperite later on for the horrible mustard gas.
    the allied forces had dug themselves in close to the Germans, keeping them from getting more near to the nearby coast line.
    now it turns out tunnels were being dug under the German bunkers and trenches by the British and some allied forces, the Germans had found out and were digging as well, but they started many months later so could not prevent the horrible event about to happen. 500000 kilos of explosives were put under the German trenches, divided in 9 huge mines, which were all set off at once in one huge explosion.
    thousands of men were blown to pieces, and fights started, in one week about 50000 soldiers of both sides were killed, and all of that only had as a result the front line moved a few miles…
    crazy crazy and so terribly sad and painful for everyone concerned, families and friends and victims.
    one farmer is still living in his farm above 15000 kilo of unexploded mines, but he just chuckled and said it did not keep him awake really…
    the Maori songs were touching, they also lost a lot of soldiers on that day or in that week…
    most animals, other animals, do not kill each other when fighting with their own species, they compare forces and one gives up and can usually walk away just a bit bruised .
    but our species with its weapons has turned into a crazy mass killer under certain circumstances..
    not very uplifting to observe.
    M

  55. Otto Codingian says:

    picking up wife at LAX 4 hours from now.

  56. Larry says:

    The downside of my retirement:

    On Monday morning while waiting for my car that was in the shop for regular maintenance, I killed time by browsing through the used book and record shelves in a Value Village store nearby, curious whether I might find some gems at a reasonable price.

    Out of nostalgia and to see what memories and feelings they might stir, at very low cost I bought some used vinyl records of Frank Mills, Henry Mancini, Al Hirt, Billy Vaughn, and Jim Reeves, music I remember hearing from my parent’s time. As soon as I got home I put them on the record player that I still have, but only listened to them once. The music is post-war soothing, calming, deadening. It brought back memories of a time I hadn’t realized how dead I felt. Strange to think how important this lame music was to my parents’ generation. Depressing to think how dead my parents’ lives were that this music could give them comfort.

    I also brought back 4 quite interesting books at 1/3 off full price, which I’ve already begun to read. I even bought season 2 and season 3 of Sons of Anarchy for only 3 bucks each. I’ve never watched Sons of Anarchy but have heard it’s an exceptional TV drama.

    The rest of the week went gradually downhill. I didn’t join photography buddies for Tuesday morning coffee but instead took advantage of the weather to get some bird survey done for which I am volunteering. I thought there was a committee meeting on Tuesday evening but it is next week. A meeting I was planning to go to on Wednesday night was cancelled. I was starting to realize how much I was counting on and needing those social connections. I was starting to feel uncomfortably lonely. I was starting to feel how tenuous were my ties to people. I hadn’t talked to anyone all week except shop keepers. I could feel myself sliding into self-isolating feelings of unworthiness. Thank goodness a friend phoned and we arranged to go together to an information meeting on Saturday morning, and then two primal friends phoned to talk about going to the retreat. Hearing from them picked me up a bit. But I could still feel myself sliding into unenthusiastic, disinterest in life, vitality being replaced by heavy, aching lethargy. I wished I could be at work, attentive and busy working on some problem, distracted from my life, and blessed with the feeling of being surrounded by people who knew me. I felt almost on the verge of panic with how alone I am with my life now and how lethargic I feel.

    I felt like now I just want to lay low at home. I had no energy or interest to go out. It would be bad for me if this kept going downhill. This morning I took some action and arranged to join the singles group on an outing and dinner on Saturday afternoon and evening. Taking some adult responsibility for me made me feel a little better.

    But yesterday evening and tonight, in a numb, vegetative stupor, I watched several episodes of Sons of Anarchy. It is a series about a biker gang and the kinds of business and people that they deal with, and their families. There is plenty of violence. They keep digging themselves into an ever deeper hole. It is riveting, unsettling drama. The last episode that I watched this evening climaxed with the family imploding at a get together that was intended to be a time of celebration and healing. The veil lifted. The dam holding back my feelings burst.

    I never felt like I belonged in my family. I never felt connected to them the way family members should, especially not with my parents. As I became a teenager, I hid from myself the feeling deep inside that we were a fake family, trying hard to seem normal. There was always a huge emotional gap separating me from them. Even now, I feel I haven’t been much of a brother to my sisters, and not much of an uncle to my nieces and nephews. In high school I had no social life, no friends. In university I had no social life. My only way of coping with life was to hide in studying, and to help on the farm. As an adult in the working world I more and more emotionally and physically withdrew from people, essentially had a breakdown, quit my job and retreated to home even while my siblings were marrying and leaving. I was headed for major trouble and none of them could reach me or help me, except maybe my youngest brother, 11 years younger than me, who at the time needed me, looked up to me, and believed in me I guess. He is the sibling I’m closest to. All of my time growing up at home on the farm I was alone, unable to leave home, desperate to not to be conscious of the true roots of my emptiness, until now. I’m coming awake to the deep loneliness of my life, dangerous, dooming me to catastrophe had I not found Primal Therapy and gradually, with the help of other people, pulled myself out of the pit

    What gets me is how my parents had no connection or understanding with me, and how I became more and more crippled by loneliness but couldn’t understand why.

    • Jack Waddington says:

      Larry: What a very telling story about yourself.
      It boggles my mind how parents can be that deadened to what’s going on with their babies and young children, and the life long consequences of it.
      That sure reassures me of the value of this therapy. Not that I ever doubted it … but it is very reassuring nevertheless.
      My take, for what it is worth is, that you are making great progress and further, you demonstrate the value of this blog in moving us in that direction.

      Jack

      • Larry says:

        Thanks Jack. I appreciate your response and your empathy. Also it’s nice to see you on the blog after what seems like a long absence. The blog seems to have been unusually quiet for the past week or more.

        About the feeling I wrote about, it feels like a very ugly, dirty truth that I carry, that I so much want to not be true. The process is amazing too, how while in the feeling and crying it out, suddenly the body decides that is enough and suddenly shuts down. Then in a few days, I’ll be ready for more, I’m sure.

        • Jack Waddington says:

          Larry: the reason I was not on the blog was I thought it had gone dead, as I was not receiving emails. Seems on my last post I did not click the “to receive emails” click box. Now I have done so in my reply to you and I’m getting emails again.
          What you say is what I’ve experience with some of my buddies … so I understand just how you feel. “A bit at a time”. It’s way too much in one go and then there are the different level to the same feeling.

          • Jack Waddington says:

            It’s just that, as I sense it, that causes outsiders, to think we are not getting past some of the feelings … the different levels. I’m in the midst of this, with some pre-birth stuff right now. I get mine usually at night in bed before sleeping and suspect that is the time of the day I am the most vulnerable.
            We all do it differently, I reckon, due to the way our own “cookies” crumbled.
            I see a lot of changes in many, and that too is reassuring, as it is so easy to doubt ourselves … and of course that is the way for many of us, got traumatized in childhood … they knew best … which they didn’t. Our very spirits were broken … some more than others. You Larry seemingly, got a very bad deal.

            • Jack Waddington says:

              Yes my nephew and his wife still with me, and will be until we go the the retreat. Jim my partner will be back next Wednesday. Yippppeeee!!!

              Jack

            • Larry says:

              Odd you should say that I got a very bad deal. I usually feel how others got a worse deal and I’m impressed how they soldier on.

              • Jack Waddington says:

                Larry: I doubt any of us are able to compare ones persons feelings to any other person.
                The main thing as I see it is: how we each of us deal with them .

                From my reading you it seems you are dealing with yours … I think that is all that matters. BUT from my reading of your post I would say you got a very bad deal.

                Jack

      • Larry says:

        Are your relatives still with you?

        • Jack Waddington says:

          Yes!! Larry: my nephew and his wife still with me, Jim my partner will be back next Wednesday. Yippppeeee!!!

  57. Jack Waddington says:

    Testing, testing. I’m getting the same problem again Jack

  58. Otto Codingian says:

    here is a sensual video of one woman brushing another woman’s long red hair. it is making my scalp tingle and making me sleepy. the brush lady has 2 brushes, both with microphones, so that even if you can’t see the video, you can imagine it. wife is in hospital, she came back from ohio with a tooth abscess and level 10 pain which would not go away with light pain meds, so she is staying there until at least tomorrow with iv antibiotics and strong pain meds and hopefully going to the dentist tomorrow to get abscess drained. Intense ASMR Hair Brushing Sounds – Binaural Microphones in Brush – Mostly No Talking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eACATPzVfI

  59. Otto Codingian says:

    i forgot to take flowers to the hospital but i rubbed my wife’s feet and back for a while. since i am a terrible conversationalist, i had little to give in that regards, just a few tidbits of stuff i have seen in my life recently. i don’t feel bad for my wife with her pain; at least i am not allowing myself to or the wellbutrin has dulled some portions of my feelings for a long time now. i mean i feel bad for her, or i am trying to be sympathetic, but i have noticed lately i find it hard to be sympathetic to anyone. anyway, picked up some horrible-smelling vegan food she wanted but then she could eat only a little because of the teeth issue, watched a jimmy stewart western on the hospital tv with her, ate bad food so i could tell myself that i had gotten something for myself this weekend. no crying this weekend, group or pre-group time was spent in the e.r. with my wife. yes of course i only think about myself. i did the best i could for her, very little, but that is it. now i go back to watching/hearing hair brushing and drink my sleepy time tea and get some z’s. wife woke me up this morning, calling from the hospital saying she needed some of her pills. i was dreaming about a giant hamburger and some woman, maybe i can get back to that dream in a while. now that i think of it, i think this is important, because i have had images of hamburger and thoughts of women before. weird and eerie…something happened sometime long ago with me and those two. maybe a bob’s big boy encounter as a child.

  60. Otto Codingian says:

    kid and his dog in ohio are missing my wife terribly. wife is hoping for the best. i feel bad about it.

    • Sylvia says:

      Otto, I remember Bob’s Big Boy. In the O.C. all the ‘hip’ teens used to go there after the football games to eat and be seen. Their secret sauce in those burgers was addictive. In later years the ‘Whopper’ at burger king where just anyone could eat became my choice of convenience. Then became a vegetarian and bought from produce little store.
      Hope your wife feels better. Tough adjustment for your son in a new place.
      S

  61. Margaret says:

    wow, a tiger shark has such a good navigation and timing it can travel over a distance of more than 40000 kilometer during a year, and then every year on the exact same day return to the exact same spot. they have special sensors which make it possible to navigate by the earths magnetic field.
    another shark has stereoscopic nostrils, who separately detect odours and their direction, over huge distances.
    and then those butterflies who fly all the way from the north of America to Mexico every year, to a small specific little wood with their favourite trees to all meet there. they look trial, ha!
    a funny sight as well is sharks with their mouths wide open to let tiny cleaning fish take care of their teeth for a fishy floss , the only fisch venturing into a shark’s mouth without fear.
    ok off to clean the litter boxes of my two miniature tigers now..
    interesting bit still on tv about the latest discoveries about how sharks , the big white ones, communicate with each other, and also with divers, with their body language. they use fins, mouth, way of swimming etcetera,
    oh boy, bad news now, every year 100 million sharks are slaughtered, mostly just for their fins..
    humans are such incredible mass murderers of animals, be it in the bio industry or in the wild, it is so sad and painful.

    one good note to end with is a program I saw yesterday, about a part of a river that was given back to nature in the Netherlands, and the amazing succes with which all kind of species recovered the territory, including species that had not been spotted for decades, like ring snakes, all of a sudden there were plenty of them, and all kind of birds and fish , it was uplifting to hear nature is often very resilient.
    M

  62. Margaret says:

    today did some studying of my present course, Health psychology, and part of it was about palliative care and support for dying people and their family.
    later on I was thinking about the tremendous feeling of loss we all have to deal with when losing a loved person or animal. how we, or I feel a wish for them to live on in some way, a wish for being reunited or still connected even while there is no proof whatsoever of a personality continuing to exist in any way after death.
    there is no proof either it doesn’t happen, but well, rationality tells me chances are bigger that particular life really ceases forever to be replaced by new and other life.
    but one thing remains without any doubt, the reality of the deep love we feel , or I feel, let’s just talk about me, for people and animals lost, and for people and animals still alive but which I will have to let go at some point.
    that is the only real certainty, the depth of that love, which remains also after the loss..
    M

    • Jack Waddington says:

      Margaret and Sylvia: I’m in accord with what you say in this post: Caring for nature and all life forms is essential, if we are to survive as a species.
      Yep! I know I will be devastated if my partner Jim, goes before me … and I know he will be if I go before him. All I can say to that is that even feeling devastated is part of life … just another feeling. For me I’d rather be in the feeling zone than outside it.
      As for a life after death … I abandoned that idea many many years ago, having been brought to be a strict believer in it all.
      Even now, being on the last lap of life, I’m still of that notion. For me, I know I just need to take life as it gets doled out to me.

      Jack

  63. Margaret says:

    I wish the blog would catch up some more again, but with the retreat ahead it might even become more silent for a while..
    Jack, did I get it right that you plan to go to the retreat?
    Sylvia, how are your kittycats and the dog?
    M

    • Sylvia says:

      Hi Margaret, so far kitties are doing fine. Two of them cannot be happy in the house so I let them out and they explore next door in the neighbor’s yard, and then come in to sleep. The other one is content to stay in house or the backyard. He looks Siamese with blue eyes like his wild mom. My dog is still lively and have him on a special kidney diet. He loves the kitties and tries to groom their ears and face until they slip away. They must feel like it’s their mom cleaning their face. My elderly cat on a kidney diet likes to sleep most of the day. A new female wild kitty has come around. I could not see her being hungry so she eats here too.

      The afterlife… the more I feel about the past and am able to face reality, it seems, the less there feels a need to fantasize a future beyond death. But every once in a while I wonder what Mom and Dad are up to up there–go figure.
      S

  64. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    it sounds like you were very nice to her. I’d rather have someone rub my back and feet when I would be in pain than someone sitting by me talking.
    just be yourself, you are basically kind as far as I know you, and we all have what can be called ‘selfish’ thoughts, that is normal, after all we are the only ones who can really care and take care about ourselves in the end.
    you were there for her at the E.R., and brought her a meal she likes, and watched a western with her, boy, I would love to have someone like that by my side if ever I end up in hospital again!
    M

  65. Margaret says:

    Sylvia,
    it must be very difficult to have separate diets for the kidney pateints and the others!
    I once had a pair of cats where one was on a kidney diet, and I had to end up giving them both the diet food, as it was impossible to keep mr. Diet from not eating the forbidden crunchies. luckily the healthy one liked the diet food a lot.
    later on at my mom’s place they both became dedicated mouse catchers but that did not seem to affect mr. Diet as he passed away in his sleep at the age of nearly 20, comfortably cuddled up between mom’s pillows..
    and well, smiley, when I picture my deceased ones, I picture them happy and with more understanding and full empathy, being kind of their perfect version come to terms with everything…

    but I do so only sporadically mostly when I need to get some imaginary support or advice..
    M

  66. Margaret says:

    Sylvia,
    p.s. mmm, that Siamese blue eyed one sounds gorgeous, always would have liked to have a cat like that around as well, is it true he, or she,is more talkative than the others?
    M

    • Sylvia says:

      Yes, Margaret, he was more talkative as a kitten but has quieted down. He slips away from my petting and is more independent. He was so gentle as a kitten, the others more hissing and afraid before taming. He weighs 12 pounds so the couple of stray males around don’t bother with him. The other tabby male kitty is a hunter too like your previous kitties. He has caught and ate a baby ground squirrel and caught and released a little bird and a baby gopher. He meows and wants to bite if I don’t let him out during the day. Neutering doesn’t seem to affect his hunting desires. The female goes hunting but so far has only caught butterflies and dirt clods. Having flea problems this year, so am always treating them with worm meds. I guess I will be known as the neighborhood cat-lady as I’m daily loudly calling them in before dark.

      I agree, Margaret, those images of our loved lost ones being supporting and approving are very helpful.
      S

  67. Otto Codingian says:

    z home from hospital, putting dishes away in the loudest possible manner, and when i said could you please do that tomorrow, it is too noisy, she says yes and continues to throw plates around loudly. my life is fucking over again.

  68. Otto Codingian says:

    sylvia, what kind of dog?

  69. Otto Codingian says:

    sylvia, what kind of worm medicine do you use? our fleas are bad when it is cool, but soon it will be broiling and sometimes that makes them go away for a while.

  70. Otto Codingian says:

    margaret, please understand, i am a very very mean person. any kindness of mine is often people-pleasing. sorry to bust your bubble.

  71. Otto Codingian says:

    my wife wants to get another cat now that the others have gone. i would not mind a cat, but we still owe thousands of dollars in vet bills, and the cat would probably outlive both of us, or i would have to be the one to put it to sleep if i outlived it. i told her no, but she is headstrong and will do what she pleases. glass totally empty. gloom doom. glad to brighten everyone’s evening.

  72. Sylvia says:

    Hi Otto, he is a Shih-Tzu. I like that breed, they seem to think before they do something. I use tapeworm med. The dog will get a different one than the kitties. The fleas give them tapeworms. Also use nemex for both kitties and dog for hook worm and round worm. I hear that beneficial nematodes can help to get rid of fleas if sprayed on lawn. They come by mail with an ice pack and you put them in water and spray into wet soil in the cool part of the day. They are microscopic worms that eat larva of fleas and of other bug eggs in the grass or dirt. Haven’t tried yet but I will.
    S

  73. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    ok, if you say so, but then you are a very very mean person still rubbing your wife’s feet and back and bringing her her favorite food and watching a western with her in the hospital .
    I hope the new cat, if it joins the family, will still brighten up your days , and appreciate getting a welcoming home, for many years to come, which might outweigh the pain of having to say goodbye at some point. better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
    I have never witnessed you to be mean in any way, so well, I hear you and make no final conclusions, smiley.
    hang in there, M

  74. Margaret says:

    today I feel like writing because of feeling unexpectedly satisfied with this day, kind of quietly happy.
    nothing special, just a day without any pressure, and nice warm weather.
    had an ok visit to my mom yesterday.
    today got up early, cats, breakfast, e-mail, little laundry load for mom, and quite a bit of studying and summarizing part of course.
    then did a little bit of sunbathing on terrace, listening to a feelgood romantic book, eating strawberries and ice cream, then some more studying, comfortably on bed with laptop.
    then some cooking, biologically raised chicken, partly for one of the cats, and biggest part for me, for a few days, with rice and mediterranean vegetables.
    other cat that does not like chicken anymore for some secret reason got some other yummies and it is so nice to have them hanging and laying around full bellies, or playing with each other, play fighting while the chicken was cooking and there was plenty of odor but no treat yet.
    so all day long nothing special really, but the nice weather, and having done several things just seemed to add up with this pleasant and not so usual awareness of having a simply nice happyish kind of day…
    it is surprising and encouraging..
    M

  75. Otto Codingian says:

    good to hear that, margaret. what is a mediterranean vegetable?

  76. Otto Codingian says:

    i hear, in my head, my wife screaming about the pain of being neglected in such a brutal manner, by her parents as a child, and by my cold self over 40 years of being together. this is making me a little teary as i write. in fact i should be bawling as i write this, but now that she is home after 8 months away, her very presence triggering these feelings in me, i cannot let myself feel with her in the house. i never have been able to cry around her much. she made fun or maybe more accurately criticized or some negative comment about me and other patients and the noises we have made (beyond crying), like yelling screaming, so i dont feel comfortable around her.

  77. Otto Codingian says:

    we pass by each other in our small rented house, and she reaches out to do a slight touch, and i pull away, as i have done for so many years. i am not sure why i do this, maybe i feel she has wounded me so many times, that i am afraid of her. or i am my cold lifeless grandmother. i took my wife to the dentist today to get her abcess drained and the dentist sent us to another dentist because he thought maybe a root canal was more in order, and he did not do root canals. the 2nd dentist sent us back to the 1st dentist and said she probably needed an implant, but also her jaw bone looked weird so she has to go to a 3rd dentist to get that checked out. so i feel bad for her, bur i am unable to offer her any comfort, for some reason. i dont want to put my arms around her and tell her everything will be ok. maybe i do want to, bur i can’t. now she is back, away from my fun-loving sun and fun-loving dog, back in the house where her favorite cat is no longer here, died while she was gone, cryptococcus that vets should have told us was a lifelong disease but didn’t. she used to be loudly calling out his name mee! mee! now that part of our life is gone. i probably have not cried enough about losing the cat, since i have so many losses to cry about and so little time or safe space to do so.

  78. Phil says:

    Otto,
    I can’t cry with my wife around either. She never was in therapy and anyway I am able to do my deepest when I’m alone. My car works well for me for privacy and I can play whatever music
    I want which helps me along. In fact I did a little today on my way home from work. I played some early Beatles songs, those can really trigger me, as I grew up with them and they were meaningful for me right along. Today I had sad feelings and I guess “need”, imagining getting something from my mother. A rare kind of neutral memory of my mother, in that nothing really bad was happening to me. My sister was getting attention having to do with her homework from school. I was too young to have any homework but badly wanted attention too. It was maybe a rare opportunity.
    I didn’t get any attention in reality during that memory., but imagining get a hug or something brought on the feeling. I’m afraid I was really bigly deprived.
    Phil

  79. Otto Codingian says:

    now i got to intercede on the kid’s dog’s benefit. dog in ohio. kid stuck at ohare, thunderstorm. wife comes in, i am not sure she is asking for advice or what. i tell her to contact the dog lady the kid has been paying for a day or so to sleep at the kid’s house so the dog is not lonely. she is refusing to text this lady to see if she can check on the dog due to the kid’s unexpected delay. whatever. finally i get her to send a simple text to alert this lady. 10pm in ohio, not too late. lady can go check on dog in the morning. kid is so cheap to spend the money and does not plan things out well. the absent-minded scientist. go take walk with sophie the dog at park with wife, now it is probably only 90 degrees here in the valley, 7pm at nite.

  80. Otto Codingian says:

    well x finally. that took a year’s wait. kind of puts the touching problem at bay for a while. my worries about the kid’s dog reminds me of a horrible time in my life, when i had to leave my favorite dog alone for a week. we were moving out of the san bernandino mountains (the first mistake was moving there) back to l.a.actually santa monica. moving because kidd #2 sat home all day playing video games or being home-schooled. now he could go to a good santa monica school. anyway, i left the dog alone for a week in the mountain house because i wanted to make sure the new landlord didn’t see him and throw us out. i think about this often, how that poor dog suffered, locked in a little room all alone for a week. i feel so stupid and so guilty about it. when i finally got him to our new home, i tied him up outside, because he had attacked one of the cats some years earlier. he kept begging me to let him into the new house, which i finally did. that poor dog liked being inside. unfortunately he had a big lump on his back, which i could not afford to get removed, so he eventually had leukemia and a long slow death. but he was happy pretty much to the end. i get really sad when i drive past the vet where we got useless chemo. haven’t gone by there in a long while. bad memory. brownie the dog. sorry poor sweet dog.

  81. Otto Codingian says:

    found the strangest english movie about a scientist and his wife, post-war england i guess. hour of glory. some emotion. beautiful photography.

  82. Otto Codingian says:

    more to follow on that movie, i hope.

  83. Margaret says:

    Oto,
    well, those are the kind of vegetables we here, in our mostly cool country, also refer to as ‘southern’ vegetables, like eggplant, zucchini, bellpeppers,.
    what I use is a frozen bag of what is named ‘ratatouille’, a plate of a mixture of those and oignons and mushrooms, beans etc., seasoned and almost entirely cooked already., stewed really.
    so after cooking the biological chicken breasts , one for the cat, several portions of course, the other one in chunks in the vegetables all mixed in with the rice, it turns out into a healthy set of easily three meals, which is prepared without too much work.
    oh yes, first I cook the chicken, wihtout seasoning because of cat, and in that same water I boil the rice.
    all in the big woklike pan, then throw the water out and some oil in and then the vegetables later followed by the rest.
    so no pots and pans to wash up either, smiley.
    but maybe , probably all of this is too much information to your question, haha, I guess I am just pleased with myself for coming up with several nice meals in a fairly easy way while at the same time preparing some good food for cat.
    and important as welll, biologically raised chicken, so not one of those poor chickens that are piled up together in tiny cages which I find horrible to think of.
    mmm, sorry, yapyapyap, just out of bed with breakfast by my side and seemingly a need to talk…
    M

  84. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    it might be very useful if you let her read some of those last comments you wrote.
    telling her might be too difficult but I think it would be very beneficial for the both of you if you find a way to share some of your feelings with her.
    you both seem to care about each other despite the past hardships.
    M

  85. Margaret says:

    Otto, glad it happened, smiley. I don’t even want to think about how long it is ago for me..
    M

  86. Larry says:

    I wish I didn’t have my new bicycle, my new camera and expensive new lens, etc. etc. I can’t enjoy them. They are not what I most need. I feel so hollow, so alone. I can’t enjoy life. I can’t do retirement. I’ve hit an impenetrable wall. I cry and cry, completely broken, completely empty and barren, crippled, hopeless, doomed to aloneness forever.

    It all falls into place. I see it all, accept it. I’ve never in all of my memory had any normal healthy emotional connection to my parents. They were unable to give me any sense of security or belonging. I’m doomed to know this for eternity. It occurs to me that I know nothing about how to live my adult life. They taught me nothing, imbued in me nothing that would help me to get on in life with my peers in my teenage or adult world.

    Gretchen’s and the therapists’ humanity is a counterpoint to the emptiness I’ve known, an example, a presence that helps me to see and feel what was sorely lacking in my childhood. I learned nothing from my parents about life except how to work hard. Immersing in work is the only strategy I learned by their example, is how I survived and hid from life.

    Now I see my truth. I feel myself opening to learning how to live. I’m awakening from all the fear and aloneness I’ve been frozen and buried under, awakening to living. But it means awakening to horrible truth that I could never let myself see until now. I don’t know whether I will manage or survive. Life is unpredictable and we are on our own. I lack the foundation that we need to thrive. I can only hope that bad luck and hard times too difficult for me to handle don’t come my way. I know too well that we can’t control all that befalls us and that life can go very wrong.

  87. Margaret says:

    Larry,
    multi-grain biological bread, two bananas and coffee, smiley, and reading my e-mails..
    sounds like you are hitting bottom, hopefully it helps you to push your way up and break through the surface into the sunlight again soon.
    M

    • Larry says:

      Thanks Margaret.

      A couple of days ago I bought my first ever barbeque unit. It is an electric one. It is essentially an electric grill in a BBQ housing. It feels great to be outdoors on my balcony while cooking a meal. A tree in full leaf adjacent to one end of my balcony gives me some privacy. I look forward to on hot summer days being able to cook outside instead of heating up my condo from cooking indoors.

  88. Margaret says:

    Larry,
    mm, and the electrical one has the advantage of not producing toxic smells when for example, as some of my neighbors used to do, they use these smelly gasoily Zip blocks instead of paper and wood to get the fire starting. I do not mind the smell of food being prepared, but hate the smell of that burning chemical substance when being used.
    so yours will only spread mouthwatering smells of food getting ready!
    today it is cloudy here and it makes a big difference for my mood. the world seems so much more pleasant when warm and sunny..
    will have my 60th birthday next week. a consolation I would not skip a retreat where finally I would be one of the birthday celebratees, as mine would be two days too early..
    but I’d be torn between craving attention and dreading it anyway. seems I’d feel like not deserving it, or not being able to behave in a proper functionable way or something….
    sadness in there definitely, a lot of it…
    and hopelessness about my future on the emotionally being kept warm side…
    feel almost convinced I will have to live the rest of my life on my own, which is a sad thought.
    with cats by my side for as long as possible, so not all alone..
    and you never know, a tiny flame of hope seems to survive all hardships, which is a good thing as it keeps me going..
    hope you have a fine retreat, Larry, wish someone there would miss my presence but well, I doubt it as there is a lot of company there and a lot to do and well, I am not special really to anyone I guess..
    mm, sad about that too…
    M

  89. Otto Codingian says:

    this is so relaxing. and you dont have to watch the video to get the calming effects, which is as she intends.just listen. her whispering is like a mother calming her little girl. i can’t stay awake with this one. Salon & Spa ASMR Hair Brushing, Scalp Massage & Hair Play – Binaural Ear to Ear Whisper

  90. Otto Codingian says:

    margaret, i bet everyone at the retreat will be saying “where’s margaret?”, and missing you. i am missing you at the retreat already, and i am not even going this year either!

  91. Otto Codingian says:

    m, happy bday!

  92. Otto Codingian says:

    larry, i can completely relate to your realization of how your parents failed you. “It occurs to me that I know nothing about how to live my adult life. They taught me nothing, imbued in me nothing that would help me to get on in life with my peers in my teenage or adult world.” such a beautifully sad statement of reality. I hope retirement gives you the freedom to really feel that and then maybe, grow out of it. if that is what you desire. sometimes, i feel like i can grow out of my emptiness. well, then i wake up….ha!

    • Larry says:

      It really troubles me to see the truth. It troubles me to go back and read what I wrote. My reality seems too stark. I cried more about it today, but the truth is too much. I need to step away from it for a while, have a breather and pretend my life is OK, try to make it OK even though I feel frozen into aloneness. Just below the surface though I know I’m lacking so much and am numbed into not doing much about it. When the time comes for my last breath, I’d hate that I’d be regretting that all of my life I was afraid to reach out and connect to people. I think this blog is one way that I try to overcome that.

    • Larry says:

      Having only just awoken this morning but not yet risen, I lay there reflecting on the thread of my life. In particular I was focusing on the times and circumstances before therapy when I had to go out of my comfort zone and make a big transition in my life….entering high school, entering university, my first summer jobs off the farm, my first full time job after graduation, long stretches of demoralizing unemployment and feeling frighteningly lost and hopeless while my peers were getting married having kids and amassing wealth, reading the Primal Scream and for the first time becoming aware of my feelings and crying grief and aloneness and hanging on to a dream that somehow I would get to therapy-my only hope salvation, and then my first full time jobs that in faltering steps got me more established on my fragile career path, to primal therapy and a growing belief in myself.

      I look back at how alone I felt in the world, how I felt I did not fit in and so I did not. The ground fell from beneath me when I entered high school. I felt marked as an outcast. I felt like I barely fit in. I didn’t seem to know how. I hung on and got through the high school years awfully unhappy, with no friends. I tried to pretend I fit in and everything was normal while it was not. I had no concept of how to deal with aloneness. I could not talk to anyone about it, not even admit it to myself. I had hoped I would grow out of this phase of not fitting in, but the groove became a deeper, more established aspect of my self-identity over time. The phase endured through high school and into my first full time job after graduating from university. In that job, supposedly entering the adult world and being on my own, I became more and more withdrawn and isolated, and eventually after a couple of years quit the job in nervous exhaustion and crumbled into a long lost phase of unemployment.

      What saved me is that I had read The Primal Scream, and at the bottom of my life finally awoke to feelings, crying, the beginning of awareness and understanding of myself and aloneness. Seeing the choice of either a quick end for me or a slow tortuous precarious way up, I took steps to reverse the downhill slide I was in and ever so gradually walked away from the the abyss. I went back to school for a while, but my heart not in it, and failed often. I took jobs that I wanted but felt I wasn’t good enough for. Pretending I was normal and confident I endured social situations even though they made my heart pound and my mind race, anxious I would be discovered and rejected, a fraud and failure who had no one. What kept me going was the hope to get to LA one day, somehow.

      When I look back, I see that there were people who were friendly to me, even in high school. But I could not let them in, I could not grow my community, because doing so would have opened my eyes and feelings to the stark emptiness of my growing up at home. Because I could not let in the truth, I could not let in people whose friendliness to me would threaten my truth; until after I read the Primal Scream, self-primalled a little and began to understand myself.

      What a waste of my life! What a lifetime of useless torture! When finally with some insight I turned the tide and stepped into the unkown to grow my life, with desperate fear, there were always people there who helped me. My aloneness until that point was self-imposed. It didn’t have to be that way. Inherently there was nothing wrong with me, aside from the feelings bottled up in me arising from my deficient home life.

      I’m in a transition again. I’m lost and alone in retirement. I need to try on new experiences to grow out of this phase. I’m in a disbelief that I can make things better for me, and am afraid and hesitant to try on the unknown. Yet looking into my past I see that stepping into the unknown were the turning points that made my life possible, that made it memorable and meaningful to me, and contrary to my expectations there were people there who believed in me and helped me on my way. It seems like a lesson I need to continually relearn, by stepping into the void. The void feels overwhelming, because when my brain circuits were laid down there was an overwhelming void where there should have been parental love and support. And no one else can do anything about it now. Only I can.

  93. Otto Codingian says:

    jeez, larry, such writing! your last paragraph is a masterpiece! it would be hard to capture that with a camera. i would certainly like to try capturing that mood, either with stills or video. if you try to do that, you could write down the shots you want. it would be hard to take pictures of little children’s faces (to correspond to your description of your parental neglect), like going to a playground or such and just focusing on the little tykes who happen to have sad faces. moms might not like that. you would have to know moms first. sorry, i am just dreaming about my own ambitions with cameras. not trying to tell you what to do. that is just me. i would give my left testicle to have the time and energy that comes with retirement, to finally continue my dreams of film-making. but actually, if i retired, i would probably just stay in bed all morning, walk the dog and eat something and then watch some relaxing videos and take a nap….no, i meant my RIGHT testicle, i don’t need that one so much…

  94. Otto Codingian says:

    larry, that writing would work so good with animation too. i can’t draw though. but you could take some still shots and then combine them in a video with you reading your masterpiece above, and upload to youtube. too bad you don’t have the time. sorry again, these are just my fantasies from years ago, still pressing upwards. actually, what i was going to do, to save my old photographs before they deteriorate, was to sit there with my camera, which also has video, and start taping, and one by one, hold the picture up close to the lens, and have music playing in the background. i could narrate too, all my sad or happy thoughts about each picture. unfortunately, it would take a lot of work for me to do the narration, you know, we all can’t be a tolstoy like you.

    • Larry says:

      Coming from you, I’ll take that tolstoy comment as quite a compliment Otto. Some of your stream of consciousness writing about your feelings is powerfully evocative.

  95. Otto Codingian says:

    margaret that is great info about cooking those vegetables. i hope i can try it. i was going to make some chili with the eggplant that has sat in my fridge for a couple of weeks, but your dish sounds marvelous. i hate thinking of the chickens too, even the cage-free ones. unfortunately i grew up eating a lot of meat so it is impossible to quit at this stage of life.

  96. Otto Codingian says:

    m, i cant cook with seasoning either, because of the dog, and salt makes my blood pressure go up. i have all those vegetables in the fridge but i got bored and ate the mushrooms. it probably does not matter but how do you store the 3 meals? i would just put the whole wok in the fridge but it does not fit well…

  97. Otto Codingian says:

    phil, what beatles songs were touching you? sirius finally got a beatles channel, and i have not heard ONE john lennon post-beatles song yet! plenty of ringo and george, but no john! plenty of fake beatles bands, but no john! i am going to complain to them. right after i watch another hair-brushing video. wife is out at a meeting and i have to take advantage of my free time. she might get the wrong idea if she sees me watching that woman brushing other half-naked women’s hair.. i have to switch to the dog-licking-cat video when i hear her coming down the hall.

    • Phil says:

      Otto,
      Recently I’ve splurged and bought some Beatles CDs; ones that I had on records and some that I never had. I like to waste my money on CDs even though it’s easy to find a lot of stuff on youtube. My younger son is into collecting records. I told him I’m done with records, they wear out. Also they can be quite expensive, although getting popular again.
      On the British version of “A Hard Days Night” there is a sequence of four songs: “I should have known better”, “If I fell”, “I’m happy just to dance with you”,
      and “and I love her”. This sequence of songs has been touching me. Worth it to pick up this CD and others just for the fact that some songs can put me into feelings and I can listen in my car. A whole lot of other music works for me too. It can be old or brand new that I’ve discovered.
      I was a little kid listening to the Beatles with my brother and I remember that was so important to us. At the same time a lot of bad stuff was going on with my mother. Music has always been an outlet for me. At least I have that, it’s all mine, never mind all the millions of Beatles maniacs, their music is somehow all mine.
      Phil

      • Larry says:

        I’m glad music helps you Phil. 90% of the time I purposely have it on when I’m crying because it helps me get to and stay in the zone. Like Otto says it does for him, it cradles me in the feeling zone.

  98. Otto Codingian says:

    black thoughts cross my mind, just by hearing the calming whispering. months agok i had to soothe my poor little dog, telling him it was “all right”. he was shaking and i was having him put to sleep shortly thereafter since his cancer was spreading. these black thoughts continually haunt me and the guilt is overwhelming.

  99. Otto Codingian says:

    OK this video is not doing it for me. she is rubbing the half-naked back with Christmas garlands???? noisy noisy garlands?

  100. Otto Codingian says:

    now she is massaging a lady who has only a towel covering her buttocks, and asking me to donate to her “work” on patreon. i tell her i will, if that towel happens to inch upwards a few more inches. oh boy. need to watch the cat-dogs now;. good night.

  101. Margaret says:

    thanks Phil, M

  102. Margaret says:

    Larry, it is indeed a very sad feeling, of not being of any importance..
    Otto, smiley, that is sweet of you to say…

    hope you have some pleasant days off from work then, and more of what you need.
    M

  103. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    as it is not a pot but a large high frying pan, inside curbed like a wok, with a flat lid on it, I can just squeeze it into one shelf of the fridge. I took out one large portion already to freeze for another day, and yesterday ate the rest.
    these frozen prepared mixed vegetables are so easy, I also use vegetarian sausages, which I cut in parts and fry them just a little, and then add a bag of vegetable mix of potatoes, beans, mushrooms, a bit of bell pepper and onions, fry/stew it some more, and tadaaa, ready in about ten to fifteen minutes, also two meals, healthy and easy.
    guess you could also use fresh or uncooked frozen vegetables.
    since I learned you can also just put potatoes in the microwave after putting some holes in them with a fork, that is also a very easy favorite, no work, just washing the potatoes, I do not even peel them. and to make it tasty, when they are ready, a few minutes later, I cut them up and fry them, some pepper on them and a bit of salt, yummie!!
    use a glass container with a lid for the potatoes to nuke them, or they might jump around maybe..
    M

  104. Otto Codingian says:

    dry as a bone, no (old) feeling whatsoever (or new either). hardly listened to music all week since z came home. either i am happy or distracted. i go soon to pi and listen to music and see what happens. jumping potato jehosophat, i try to make that dish tomorrow, margaret.

  105. Otto Codingian says:

    ok so fucked up after group yesterday. bad group! (for me). down , group, get down, boy! is there anything anyone in group can do anything to help me? no. remind me of father’s day, that is always a good one to augment my ever-present horror. my horrible failure as a father. z saved those kids, not me. anything anyone could do to help me in group, the group that is always agony for me? be my mommy? whisper to me? touch me? no, i must not be in that zone, or not in the 20-year-patient subset of group. i am on the outer dimensions of group and always will be. go to after-group and hang out with primal community to lessen my fears? never will. go to retreats and sessions? no never will, no money will ever be used in my household for that. mini-fight after group with wife. i don’t feel like she ever was part of the pi. does not understand me, and i don’t hear her say how she really feels, just her wall of denial and counter-attacks. happy wife, happy life? can’t make her happy, and i have not been happy in decades. pt never worked out for me. no money, no primal intelligence in this house. introverts may not go so far in group, in my opinion, of course sessions are probably indicated for that disease, i will try that after the retreat rush has died down. see if my doctor will prescribe me amphetamines so my speech will be released in group. i love the people in that group, seems more gentle than the other one, but no fucking fooling, without being in the 20-year club and doing sessions and all of the other stuff i already said, i am fucked, competing with the other awkward guy in there. the alphas surge forth.listened to music before group in little room, but just a few random tears. screwed screwed screwed. adjusting to z being back will take 8 years, since she abandoned me for the kid not just 8 months ago, but actually years ago. boy i ate some chocolate and cant stop typing but now have to take the wife out of the house “for Father’s Day”. fuck. probably good for me to get out in the fucking traffic to see all the happy families with little children. later.

  106. Larry says:

    I’m half way through reading “The Ballad of Bob Dylan, A Portrait” by Daniel Mark Epstein. It’s one of the used books I picked up at Value Village a couple of weeks ago. Over the years I bought some of his albums as they came out. The first was “New Morning” (1970), bought when I was half way through university and realizing I was going to have to start dealing with real life on my own pretty soon and had no capacity for it. To me his music seemed to be peering into truths, a companion helping me to find courage to venture forward into my troubled life. Music and books were my only companions then helping me navigate the road ahead.

    His was a tumultuous life, torn by competing pressures as he strove for what he needed while being true to himself. He seemed to not have a solid foundation from which to navigate all the stresses. Reading his biography is bringing back memories and feelings of my very troubled time in high school, university, and very lost time after university, during those same turbulent years in his music career and in American politics and social life. He sobbed at his Dad’s funeral, because time ran out before he could say and do all the things he wanted with him. As I read that I broke into crying for mine.

    I’m alone too much. I intended to go out last night with a friend to a dance performance, but she fell ill. I didn’t want to go alone so I stayed home. Another weekend alone. It feels like I’m always alone or running from it. God I need Mom and Dad. They were there, doing what they could for us materially, but unapproachable emotionally. I tried not to see it, but I so needed to hold them and be held by them, reassured by them at least once in my life. It never happened. There was just me always on the outside, pretending I was in. I could manage to not know so long as I could get lost in play, until high school where I sorted out as one of the quiet kids who kept to himself a lot. It’s not that the kids didn’t like me. It’s that they seemed to be on an emotionally more mature, more socially outgoing and confident emotional plane that I couldn’t connect with and didn’t have in me. I got left behind. What I had inside was an ever growing reservoir of pain of all that was missing at home.

    I feel I can’t go forward in my retirement life. I need Mom and Dad. I can’t do it without their love. I’m too afraid and alone without them. I let myself break down in life urgent crying need for them. I imagine they are here, or I’m back then with them. I imagine this time they see my need, take me in and hold me, that there has been a misunderstanding, that they didn’t know I felt so lost, and they let me know that they love me. I cry and understand what’s been missing, and why and how I’ve been pretending all of my life and was in too much pain to actually connect and let anyone in. I needed to love them and feel I was loved. I can’t exist as an island, in solitude, unattached, hurting.

    I don’t want to go to the retreat. It feels like a distraction. I want my Mommy and Daddy, so I can get on with life finally.

    • Phil says:

      Larry,
      I can relate to a lot of what you wrote here.
      I went with my son to see Bob Dylan in concert tonight. We got home late and I just saw your post. It was an excellent show. He played some of his recent stuff, covers of jazz standards, which were good, despite the fact that he hardly has any voice left. For example he sung “Stormy Weather”.
      He did some of his old stuff too; so it was a nice mix. He played quite a few tunes from his most album of his own music “The Tempest”, which is a very good, despite his voice.
      Dylan is an extreme character as a performer. He didn’t say a word to the audience. He didn’t say good evening or good night or even introduce his band members. At least he faced the audience. He’s clearly not at all personable, just a musical genius, who wants to let his music speak for him, and of course it does.
      Phil

      • Phil says:

        I should add that it was a great Father’s Day to go with my son to the concert, and we got the tickets without realizing that. It was a long drive which meant we got to talk about a lot of things. My son is doing great; working hard making money this summer, he did very well, got top grades, this past Spring semester in college, he has exciting plans for the future, so all of this has me really happy.
        Typo in my last message. Dylan’s most recent album of his own music is “The Tempest”, I think
        My son has almost all his music and is a big fan. He has a very wide range of musical interests and it’s so nice we can share that together.
        Phil

      • Larry says:

        Thanks for the review Phil. He is performing here on July 14. I’m trying to round up a friend or two to come with me to see it. People have been burned by some of his poor performances in the past. I used your review to hopefully persuade some friends to attend the concert with me. The only other concert I’ve ever been to is Tears For Fears. This might be my only chance to see Dylan perform live. I clearly remember where I was, almost and adult, and how I felt, in university, when I bought my first album of his, New Morning. And now a few short years later here he and I are, in the last semester of our lives. A lot has passed under the bridge in that time that went by quickly. I never saw myself being where I am today. They way I felt, I never imagined I’d get this far, even if I still feel I have far to go.

  107. Otto Codingian says:

    “Life with Father” tcm movie. kind of sweet and bittersweet old movie, man, wife and 4 kids. very vocal so you would not really need to see it. “Beware of Darkness” george harrison,playing on radio as z and i were taking the dog for a walk in franklin canyon. i veered off ventura blvd and broke down in tears with z and dog in car. took her by surprise. dog probably used to it. my darkness is immense. can’t get away from it. z wanted a cat, against my advice. spent the afternoon at the pound getting it. them. lovely young volunteer who helped us. always sad to see so many homeless pets, but a lot of families were there to get those poor pets. l.a. pound has been a bad experience for me in the past, so i am glad this was a good experience.

  108. Otto Codingian says:

    father of the bride tcm or maybe amazon. just started. eliz taylor in love and dad sad or something about daughter having grown up. spencer tracy.

  109. Otto Codingian says:

    well maybe not such a feeling movie. not sure. taking a nap

  110. Otto Codingian says:

    hopefully, larry, you will get touched by someone at the retreat. at least a massage, if nothing else. i have an inkling of how you feel. is there anyone at the retreat that you especially look forward to seeing?

    • Larry says:

      I look forward to seeing practically everyone, Otto. It’s just that I need to heal inside so that I can enjoy being with them more and not just be a walking shell. But I guess if I was healed enough that I would be more able to enjoy being with them, then I wouldn’t need to go to the retreat.

  111. Otto Codingian says:

    if you haven’t left for the retreat yet, take some of your new or old photos. i think barry likes photos.

  112. Otto Codingian says:

    i think barry probably likes dylan too, although i don’t know that for sure.

  113. Otto Codingian says:

    barry is a good toucher. i was so jealous of him touching someone in group this weekend, and at other groups too. i think that particular technique (if that is what it is) is underutilized, but what do i know, i am a primal outsider.

  114. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    I relate to what you said about touch, I could immediately picture myself getting into feelings while having Gretchens or Barry’s hand on me. getting my needs met in some way usually does the trick.
    and I agree with Larry it seems important you could cry in the car with Z there.
    hope the new cat will be a fine new part of the family, they are not only nice and beautiful but I feel they have something healing about them.
    do you have him or her around already?
    and how does the dog react?
    M

  115. Larry says:

    I felt I was in a mini-crisis this morning. I felt I did not want to go to the retreat. I would make myself go, but my heart wouldn’t be in it at all. I didn’t want to be having to face the hazards of travel and the retreat atmosphere all alone. I sank into the feeling. I wanted my Mommy. I wanted her to sit me on her lap and hold and reassure me (….never happened). I cried feeling the need of reassurance all of my life, but instead was filled with fear in everything I did. I cried feeling how I need that reassurance and sense of security and belonging from a parent now, even as an adult, never mind just when I was a kid. Finally I cried as an adult, realizing that all of my life and whether I go to the retreat or stay home, I am never going to get that reassurance from a parent that I’ve been seeking all of my life.

    So more able to accept that I’m on my own and no one is going to protect me from harm or hurt, I’m gong to the retreat, since that’s likely to get me farther in life than staying home. Also I hope I can enjoy spending time with friends.

  116. Margaret says:

    ha, as from today I am 60…

    mixed feelings about it, but not too bad, I seem to like that number more than I did 55, that was for me a hard turning point where I felt I could not pretend to be young anymore, not even to myself…
    of course it is all relative, to someone in their 80’s 60 is still young, smiley…

    mom asked me once more yesterday if I did not have a steady boyfriend yet.. I replied I did not even have a loose boyfriend..
    but it is a bright sunny day once more and that is always good for my mood..
    M

  117. Phil says:

    Happy Birthday Margaret!!!

  118. Margaret says:

    thanks Phil, smiley.
    although rationally I cope with it, I do feel moments of sadness about only having had my brother and half-sister contacting me so far today.
    tried to give my mom a call and to just tell her it is my birthday, as she has of course no way of remembering, but she was not in her room.
    will see my brother on Friday and then celebrate a little with him and my mom.
    but otherwise no call or word of girlfriend. not the end of the world as I know she likes me and we will make up, but it is confronting to have such a small circle of people knowing of or remembering my birthday.
    got a sleeping gown from sister with L.A . girl on it and a picture of a cat, and some nice cards, saw one this morning which seems to be figures of cats whose postures, tails and feet, form the letters of happy birthday, which is really nice..
    yeah, a bit lonely I guess.
    will go with caretaker for a drink this afternoon, thank heavens for professional company, ha!
    well, will not pity myself too much but try to find more ways to socialize and increase my social circle, which is not even a triangle anymore if I don’t count family and caretakers.
    or far away primal friends…

    sigh, luckily real summer weather on this first day of the summer, and weather forecast just said it might also be the warmest night , ha, only temperature wise but anyway..
    will count my blessings starting with the cats who seem to be hiding in some cool spot taking a long nap..
    M

    • Jack Waddington says:

      Margaret: Happy, happy birthday … and yep!! you’re still quite young at 60. Not sure if you remember me getting a chocolate cake on my birthday at the retreat from Vivian. That was more than two decades ago Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Time flies … where did it all go????? 🙂 🙂
      Jack

  119. Margaret says:

    Jack,
    yes, time seems to go faster and faster while growing older. sometimes I say it is because of going downhill, smiley…

    luckily friends contacted me to go out to eat tomorrow, and I got some mails that pleased me, and my brother called about getting together on Friday.
    is your Jimbo back already?
    and you still did not reply about whether you were going to the retreat, as at some point something you said sounded like you were planning to go to my surprise, so I asked but you never responded.
    no big deal of course, but well, I am a very curious person, smiley.

    we had another bomber in Brussels today, luckily a clumsy one, his bag full of nails and explosives only caught fire when the detonator went off, and when he ran away and then came running back he got shot.
    so glad he did not succeed.
    M

    • Jack Waddington says:

      Margaret: Not only is time wizing by faster; or that’s the perception, but more bits falling off.
      I now know what is meant by “‘The good die young” meaning, as I see it, they don’t have do go through this degridation of the body with all the attending aches and pains.
      Yes; my Jimbo is back and we have bought a property in the South of The Netherlands. Now I’m going to have to learn double Dutch and not being that great for languages (even my own; English) I am going to have to do a lot fo re-orientation.
      Yes I am going, for perhaps the very last time, to treat myself in Monticito. It will be my last chance to say my final goodbye to formal therapy and some to the other re-treaters I will miss some aspects of LA, especially the weather.
      Sorry I did not reply to a message of yours, but it must have ‘flown over my cuckoo’s nest’. Perhaps another factor about growing old. I thought all that happened to other people … BUT NOT me. Ah well! That’s the way the cookie crumbles … and ‘crumbling’ is what it feels like. 😦 😦 😦
      Still having those incessant ‘convulsive’ feelings; that seem to go on for way longer than I would like.

      Jack

  120. Sylvia says:

    Margaret, Happy Birthday! ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ Hope your wishes come true!
    I always feel vulnerable on my birthday. Half of me wants attention and the other half doesn’t.
    Enjoy your day and tomorrow and the rest of the week with your family.
    S

  121. Hey Margaret , Happy Birthday! Have a wonderful day! Jack, When was your birthday? Gretch

    • Jack Waddington says:

      Gretchen: I popped outta my mammy’s womb at about 7:00 pm on the 27th of October 1932.
      I’m not sure which of the two retreat in 1992, that Vivian gave me that birthday cake.
      Will she be there for this retreat? as I would like to say good bye to her. She was my favorite therapist.
      If not, then I would like you convey my best wishes to her and hope she’s doing well.
      Jack

  122. Margaret says:

    Sylvia, thanks for your sweet words, M and Plukkie and pluche

  123. Leslie says:

    Happy Birthday Margaret!! Love the 60’s !! 🙂
    ox L

  124. Margaret says:

    Thanks Gretchen, thanks Leslie, smiley..
    we are still having a real heatwave here and I love it. for me for some reason it seems to make my world a safer place, must have had some early traumatic experiences of feeling too cold I guess.
    or maybe I have unknown Mediterranean genes which long for this kind of day and night temperature where you can simply wear a minimal amount of cloths, and not have to worry about taking a warmer layer along, ha!
    warm welcoming breezes, just love it.
    and who needs air-cond, sweating cools you off as well..
    maybe in a car it can be useful, but not if it is turned up too high, that feels just so unhealthy and really bothersome.
    as a matter of fact I feel in a lot of places in the USA they go way overboard with their cold air cond, it is simply nuts to have to take a sweater to a restaurant in the summer.
    or hotels where you can’t open the windows, I hate that, or centrally regulated temperatures, arch, .
    what with the nice summer wind through the open window of a car or a room??
    sorry, it really is something that can trigger me I guess..
    wish everyone a great retreat, would love to be there but also love having granted myself the peaceful option this year of staying here and enjoying that as well.
    will make my next visit all the better hopefully, smiley.
    never have had a bad retreat though, or a bad visit otherwise, always useful and worthwhile in every way, with plenty of nice and inspiring people around.
    have fun my friends, Margaret

    • Phil says:

      What a difference to wake up this morning knowing I’ll be leaving. I’m full of energy and slept well. Of course I can’t be going somewhere fun all the time but still it would be nice to have something energizing to do everyday.
      Phil

  125. Margaret says:

    Phil, that sounds great and promising!
    wish you the very best, M

  126. Otto Codingian says:

    larry, heard and saw dylan a decade (!???! wtf? ) ago in tucson. tiny moment of good in my life. happy bday m. cancer/gemini cusp baby? one of my favorite signs. cancer, that is. i do enjoy gemini smartness, but maybe more cancer nurturing. phil, good trip with your son. m, i tell you about cats later.

  127. Otto Codingian says:

    things are nutty now with z home. anyway, i just stopped watching asmr models giving scalp massages with the intent to put viewers to sleep or to help us relax, so i could say this. i dont have to go to group to feel like an outsider; i feel like an outsider on this frigging blog! cant escape it! oh well.

  128. Otto Codingian says:

    i feel like an outsider in life. z want to go for a long drive to beach and thriftstore. my saturday life for 8 months without her was to do a minimal amount of chores, catch up on workweek-lost sleep, walk dog or spend time with dog since it was alone all week, go to group, listen to music/cry. i just ate 2 donuts and knocked myself out. i am lost, this is difficult, relationship. had enuf already. bitch bitch bitch.

  129. Otto Codingian says:

    what a fucking nightmare drive that was.

  130. Otto Codingian says:

    i have lost all primal momentum. music is not touching me and interactions with the little woman has left me beyond depressed. beautiful new moon cancer night should open me easily to letting out my emotions, but all the scars of my inward personality have been rubbed with a steel brush and those scars are bleeding, thank god z went out to a movie with a friend, which ended up in z taking her friend to the e.r. strange….

  131. Otto Codingian says:

    i really dont feel free to express anything of myself when she is here. old feeling maybe, or maybe just 40 years of marriage reality.

  132. Otto Codingian says:


    John Lennon – You Are Here – Lyrics
    i cant believe the “beatles channel” does not play ANY of john’s song. the pictures in this video are so sad. i may describe tomorrow. finally got some tears.

  133. Otto Codingian says:

    he was such a big part of my life at one time.

  134. Otto Codingian says:

    Aisumasen (I’m Sorry) – John Lennon
    “all i had to do was call your name” i wish that worked for me….
    Aisumasen (I’m Sorry)”
    When I’m down really yin
    And I don’t know what I’m doing
    Aisumasen Yoko
    All I had to do was call your name
    And when I hurt you and cause you pain
    Darling I promise I won’t do it again
    Aisumasen Yoko
    It’s hard enough I know just to feel your own pain
    All that I know is just what you tell me
    All that I know is just what you show me
    When I’m down real sanpaku
    And I don’t know what to do
    Aisumasen Yoko san
    All I had to do was call your name
    Yes, all I had to do was call your name

  135. Otto Codingian says:

    z came home argumentative. oh well. not nice of me to say but it is how i feel. i have never had the will to fend off her insanity. i can barely fend my own insanity off.
    Oh My Love – John Lennon
    that is how i felt once with pt. not so much now. welbutin flattens me out.
    “Oh my love for the first time in my life
    My eyes are wide open
    Oh my lover for the first time in my life
    My eyes can see
    I see the wind, oh I see the trees
    Everything is clear in my heart
    I see the clouds, oh I see the sky…”

  136. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    ha, I think the majority of bloggers here feel like outsiders most of the time, so you form a genuine part of us, smiley..
    seriously, I love your comments as well Otto.
    and hey, I am Gemini with ascendant Cancer, and although I do not really believe in it, of course on the moments there are nice things said about my sign I tend to like it anyway..
    curious to hear more about catS , not cat but cats?
    M

  137. Margaret says:

    Otto,a small detail but on hindsight I think I should have said I bake te potatoes after having put them in the microwave, instead of frying.
    so the almost ready unpeeled potatoes with some holes pinched into them come out of the microwave and then I cut them up and then in a big pan with some oil to make them a bit crusty..
    add some pepper and not too much salt in your case..
    olive oil is healthy and tasty.
    the retreat must be on its way by now. more or less,, let the good and bad times roll up there retreaters..
    Otto, what about those cats??
    mine are playing cat and mouse with each other right now, jumping from one couch onto the next and if necessary over my head or laptop..
    this morning there was a wild chase for a dead leaf of some flower bush, they must have agreed on considering it a would be huge prey, very desirable and worth running like crazy after each other for, clapping cat doors all around, sets of tiny nails scraping over wooden floors while accelerating or taking turns, hopping on and off bed using me as a trampoline..
    M

  138. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    what you wrote made me wonder about if you feel able to, or not, to express your preferences to your wife about what you would want to do during the weekend for example, or if you ever stand your ground .
    maybe in your childhood that was never possible, by the sound of what you related before.
    maybe it could work if you come up with some proposition or idea of what you would like?
    sorry if this is not helpful..
    but sometimes a solution lays in those ‘details’, or ways of communicating.
    but I guess you get plenty of advice from mr. B anyway, smiley.
    just wish you the best, M

  139. Otto Codingian says:

    m, things worked out somewhat after a big fight. this remains a work in progress. thanks for your comments. fight triggered by a deep old feeling of mine of loss of mom and others and/or a feeling of always getting the dregs. i was just wondering where all the coffee cups had disappeared to. everything is a trigger for me.

  140. Otto Codingian says:

    m, it was a horror story. one cat died. i felt it was skinny at the dog pound, and said so to the volunteer who was helping us pick the cats. she said it was just malnourished. the people giving rabies shots and chips let the cat go with us, apparently they are stupid. stupid like me and z. we took him home and he was sick the next day. he was meowing from time to time, the meow where they are in extreme distress, so we took to vet who said he was severely dehydrated, she said we should put him on an iv drip. but i could not afford all the crap she wanted to do, this vet is notorious for just adding $$ to the bill, so we gave him a subcutaneous water infusion with the help of the vet techs. we took him home and he started drinking a lot of water. we thought he would be ok, but the next day, i found him dead under z’s bed. very tragic, he was a beautiful cat. i am so numb that all through this process, i should have known that this poor cat was in trouble, but my brain does not work well in these situations, plus 100 degree heat makes things worse. i feel horrible about the cat, one more mismanaged pet who is dead because of my mismanagement. i think the rabies shot was the final straw for this poor cat. anyway, other cat seems ok, but if the dead cat had leukemia, it is entirely possible that the live cat has it too now.

  141. Otto Codingian says:

    well i am not going to say any expletives on this blog like those that i am saying under my breath, to myself, about my dear sweet wife. not right this minute anyway. suffice it to say, that i have made it clear to her, that i am not taking vacation days off from work, so i can clean up the frigging back yard. at least, not until she wears me down with her insidious bizarre campaign in this matter. she probably needs a hug and a glowing exclamation of joy about her cooking that i refused when i got home from work, 14 hours after getting up at 2:30. I just wanted to shove the food i already had in front of me, down my throat, to wipe out the bad taste of working so hard all day. i feel like a heel, but give me a break.

  142. Margaret says:

    dear Otto,
    it sounds like that cat was already going really downhill when you took it home.
    you did manage though to make it feel somewhat better as it started to drink again, and it had a warm and safe spot to die instead of a cage.
    you are certainly not guilty of anything in this case, on the contrary.
    human leukemia is not contagious, but don’t know if maybe cat leukemia would be.
    you can only hope for the best and do what lays in your power to give this cat a good opportunity for a happy life.
    you are a good person.
    M

  143. Otto Codingian says:

    thanks margaret. now the other cat hid under the bed all day. strange.

  144. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    maybe the cat is still adjusting to its new surroundings? or did it get a fright from another cat or dog or something? was it good friends with the kittycat that passed away?
    hope it comes around soon, what kind of cat is it, male, female, black, ginger, otherwise?

    Phil,
    Larry, how is the retreat going???
    or Vicki, or other friends?
    hope it is productive and fun as well!
    thinking of you guys, M

    • Larry says:

      Hi Margaret. It feels good to be among primal friends again. To feel included amongst brave, flawed, soul searching, sensitive caring people feels like entering an altered state, a very human one like one I’ve never known but that should have always been part of life. In waves I feel either exhilarated at feeling included, or very disturbed at how I keep myself on the periphery because it hurts too much to be so accepted and and I’m haunted by open eyed glimpses of the neglect I had to survive thru in chilhood. As usual my retreat ended with me feeling overwhelmed by the warm acceptance and attention I received, and because I can’t take it all in feeling bad about myself and my life and my tendency to isolate, and feel uneasy at seeing more openly the deficiencies of human contact I experiencef when I was little…and I have doubt about how much I can recover from my childhood.

      It was a treay to see Jack, and sad to hear his good-bye.

      2 more groups to attend.

      sent from my smart phone

      • Melinda says:

        Hi Larry, I found the blog!

        • Larry says:

          Hey. Good for you Melinda. Welcome to the blog. I hope it is helpful to you.

          I had my last group today. That’s 10 consecutive days of group. I feel ready for a breather. The good and bad thing is that an intreaction between me and someone else stirred unhappy feelings in me that will percolate for a while. That’s good because it will lead to insight ebentually, bad because I don”t feel good follwing final group.

          • Anonymous says:

            I am always wanting a happy ending but maybe like you said, its what comes out of the ending that is the important part. So this unsettling feeling may lead to something wonderful! I only sought out the blog to keep in touch with you 🙂 Safe travels back home.

          • Phil says:

            Welcome to the group Melinda.

  145. Phil says:

    Hi Margaret,
    The retreat is. over now and I’m on my way home. it went really well for me and now back to r delay at the reality including a six hour delay at the airport.

  146. Phil says:

    What I was trying to say is it’s back to reality including a six hour over night delay at LAX airport.

  147. Phil says:

    Phil,
    nice to hear your retreat went well, can’t believe it is over already, time flies so fast these days…

    that is so unpleasant, that kind of delay!
    after having had many delays at airports, only a while ago I heard people are usually entitled to a substantial amount of money to make up for the discomfort and hassle in those cases, but most airlines are very silent about that possibility.
    it can go up to several hundreds of dollars, so maybe it would be useful to find out about it. guess it depends of which cause , like a snowstorm sets them free, but I guess a snowstorm was not the reason in this case…

    hope you are back home safe and sound soon, M

  148. Phil says:

    Sorry, the last message was from margaret

  149. Phil says:

    Margaret, the delay is because of high winds in New York. Our plane is only now on the way from there. I’m still in the airport.

  150. Otto Codingian says:

    Margaret, cat appears to be fine now, very friendly and playful and loves its head to be petted and the dog does not seem to mind it. It is black with white patches, seems like head is small for the size of its body. Not sure why it ended up at pound; owner had to move or had a baby maybe. 8 years old. wants to go outside but we should probably never allow it, unfortunately. also a big hawk and babies in the tree in the backyard.

  151. Otto Codingian says:

    otherwise, i feel lousy, as i usually do, especially on weekends. probably go to use the back room at pi today, not sure about group since i cant stand to be in a packed tiny room post-retreat, even though it would be good to see some faces and hear the retreaters’ stories. i feel emotionless these days, i don’t feel free to listen to music as i did when the little woman was gone. i am supposed to clean the backyard so the landlord won’t kick us out if the neighbors complain and the fire department comes to tell us too many weeds etc. don’t wan’t to clean backyard or do a damn thing at all, really. will probably see kid #2 on Monday and our grandchildren, have not seen in at least 8 months or more. don’t really look forward to it. i am a loner. not a people person. wife IS a people person.

    • Jack Waddington says:

      Otto: From my perspective, the best retreat ever. It was my 29th, but I have not done a retreat since 2007, so don’t know much about retreats in the interim.

      Meantime, all Primal comments are coming into my spam folder. Not sure why, but Mark W. showed me how to take them out. Will see if it happens again, but will need to check my spam folder for the next day or two.

      Jack

  152. Otto Codingian says:

    here is a horribly tragic sad video of “John Lennon – Beautiful Boy” some home movie of the Lennons sitting in front of a blue lake at a table and John and Yoko’s son running around on the green grass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt3IOdDE5iA at least sirius played this song once, and then they played octopus garden 100 times???? i guess i should be quiet so they don’t cancel the beatles channel because i am complaining about that.

  153. Otto Codingian says:

    how old is he here? dont know 6 ? crawling all over yoko and doing piggyback in front of the deep blue water, bright orange shirt. now john with a man bun dancing around. sean runs up to john for a little arm brush, then back to yoko, then she sits back at table next to john and all three are there and sean crawls up on huggy yoko. she hugs and caresses sean. fuzzy picture but so sweet. sean runs off again, then everyone is gone, just the empty table.

  154. Otto Codingian says:

    good cry at the pi. (loss of) family that we had, mom and me, at the big house, before she was torn away from me at 10 months. seeing their faces,my young aunt who would take care of me and my brother later on. listening to my favorite song, which she must have played on the piano those many years ago. half of the cry i felt like i was late-stage fetus inside her as she played the piano. hearing it through her belly. did that song envelop my neurons and stay with me through a difficult birth, where mom and i are one, and we are both at risk of death, and my body must do what is instinctively right, or death might come? did the song envelop my neurons and stay with me through thick and thin the rest of my life, in the background of my mind or soul? yes.

  155. Otto Codingian says:

    so close to some understanding of something out of this cry. maybe i have an insight later. or just the reality of it, is earth-shattering, the reality of life. mom and baby are one, because we are so close together for 9 months, and hopefully thereafter. and gb and bb, the kindest people on the planet, that just helps so so much.

  156. Phil says:

    Phil,
    that is a drag!
    M

  157. Margaret says:

    Phil,
    that is a drag!
    M

    • Phil says:

      Margaret,
      It was a drag. I got a little sleep in the airport, but not much. Hard to get comfortable there. It was annoying that another flight to NY, which wasn’t delayed, left before our’s in the morning.
      The airline people gave us some bottles of water and some bags of snacks. They could have done a whole lot better than that. It reminded me of working on the night shift, which I’ve spent a fair amount of time doing over the years.
      I finally got home at 9:00 PM, when it should have been about 1:00 PM on Saturday, so the day was destroyed and I was exhausted. I did have a very nice evening with my wife, but she’s leaving for Spain today. My son will hardly be around so I’ll basically be alone for a few weeks. Let’s see how well I will handle that; my expectations are low. Maybe I’ll surprise myself. I already feel the possibility of more feeling coming up even after the whole retreat experience, so I can always do that.
      Phil

  158. Margaret says:

    Larry,
    nice to hear you, smiley.
    M

  159. Margaret says:

    Phil, are you safely back home?
    hope to hear how your trip was soon, smiley.
    i had a nice peaceful day, school next door finally shut for a while, and downstairs neighbours seemingly on vacation, so house is very quiet, no noise, big relief!

    ddid a good amount of studying today, planned my next exam for august 1st.
    and got in touch with in line dance club that is only a short ride from where I live, and that offer beginners classes every week on wednesday evenings starting in august!
    people can come as they please, fee is per lesson, and everyone is welcome. first hour for beginners, next hour for beginners and half advanced, next hour for advanced.
    and socializing for everyone in meantime I suppose.
    am very curious to go and find out, I expect and hope it to be fun.
    on monday there will be a music and dance event at mom’s nursing home, usually fun as well, specially for her as she loves being on the dance floor, smiley!
    feel tired, made a lot of typos, corrected them all hopefully.
    M

  160. Margaret says:

    Otto, that sounds like a lovely cat.
    maybe you can let it out in the garden when the hawk birdies are flown out of the nest.
    once the cat is used to feeling at home it should not run away and it is old enough not to do too many stupidities probably.
    what is its name?
    one lucky cat, to have found a welcoming home at the age of 8 years, as most people want kitties.
    hope you and the new family member can exchange lots of love and affection.
    M

  161. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    that music brings back memories. I still have that elpee here.
    I remember crying when I heard about John Lennon having been shot. just when he was getting his life sorted out with his family finally.
    I thought Sean was only four when that happened, but I must have been wrong.
    have you ever heard Sean Lenno’s music? it is very good, special, not possible to catch it under any specific label. well, that was the cd I found of him long ago, he must have made others since.
    he is my number one, and as a close number two comes Kevin Ayers, who died a few years ago.
    he also has some real treasures of songs, very different from the more popular ones you hear still on the radio occasionally like Caribbean moon.
    and then there is Chet Baker singing, they all belong on the same podium for me really, sensitive and very talented performers, all with very tumultuous problematic lifes come to think of it..
    M

  162. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    glad to hear you did go to the PI.

    I fell back asleep this morning, and probably the covers were pleasantly tight around my shoulders, which made me dream about this:
    forgot the story but at some point there was a very old Rolls Royce which was gonna be sold or something. I said I wanted to get into a Rolls for once in my lifetime if possible, and noticed another part of my family had made the same decision, so I had to squeeze in on the backseat with a young couple, or brother and sister, not important, but so young he did not come across as a possible lover anyway.
    in the car I suddenly noticed he had put his arm around my shoulder,maybe to give us more room, but it triggered me.
    at first it was hard to let in he actually had chosen to do so, which must mean he did not dislike me, a first trigger showing how scared I am most of the time, if not always, to be disliked.
    the next stage was letting in how nice and kind it was, and the next feeling was how sad I suddenly felt.
    it was as if that friendly arm around my shoulders enabled me to allow myself to feel my loneliness and deep sadness , or to begin feeling it, as I did not want to start crying hard there.
    at waking up it still lingers a bit, together with being aware of the fact I feel I have to keep that feeling at bay to function.
    or more probable, I am way to scared to go into that feeling on my own.
    maybe I need the safety of a friendly arm around my shoulders first to make it OK…

    still good to have my dreams to occasionally offer me a bit of support on my journey..
    M

  163. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    with that link to Lennon’s beautiful boy I was able to hear a whole bunch of his songs, all seemingly accompanied by home videos or other pictures.
    a trip back memory lane, bringing up feelings about lost love.
    still haven’t heard them all, hope to just be able to keep listening to the rest by turning my Safari back on.
    thanks , great link.
    M

  164. Margaret says:

    plastic Ono Band\s Cold turkey also brought back memories, no pleasant ones, phrase ‘get me out of this hell’ says it all..
    M

  165. Otto Codingian says:

    new cat got out through bathroom screen last night but found her in the garage after searching this morning. our jones is animals.

  166. Otto Codingian says:

    was going to go to the cemetery this morn but got side-tracked by the living.

  167. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    our jones is animals, what on earth do you mean with that sentence????

    hi Melinda, Margaret

    • Sylvia says:

      Hi Margaret. I looked up jones and the definition given is: A fixation or compulsive desire for someone or something, typically a drug; an addiction. I probably have cats as my jones too since taking in a stray mom cat and her 3 kittens now a year old.

      • Jack Waddington says:

        Sylvia and Margaret: My take on “Jones’ is:- :”Keeping up with the Jones”, meaning to me keeping in the mainstream.

        There was a BBC comedy program on this very subject and both Jimbo and myself used to watch it on PBS.

        Very British me thinks. If there is another meaning I never heard of it.

        Jack

  168. Margaret says:

    Sylvia,
    ha, thanks a lot, that is an interesting thing to learn about.
    and mm, cats and other animals are my jones as well I guess, among other joneses, smiley.

    Melinda, sorry I misspelled your mane earlier on, I have very poor eyesight and work by the sound of a screen reader, and had misheard your name.

    Larry, I relate a lot to preferring my last group to end on a positive note. it is hard when the opposite happens. hope you could talk to some friends afterwards about it, that can make a world of difference.
    M

    • Larry says:

      I did talk about it some with a couple of friends, Margaret, in appropriately general and vague terms. Actually in being in the uncomfortable ‘hot seat’ in the last group I feel I’m getting my money’s worth from the retreat. Better to plunge into difficult things and work thru them if possible, than run away and avoid them which before was the only way I knew how to cope.

  169. Otto Codingian says:

    going to visit my son and his wife and my 2 grandchildren in a while. not a big fan of visiting.reminds me of the visiting we did a lot of that on weekend afternoons with my old grandmother, sometimes if lucky, my old aunt and uncle. but it was always an “old” affair. old people who sat and talked and did not do much else that interested me. except eating and even that became beyond boring. i am feeling this boredom push upwards into the present in everything i do. the boredom also has an earlier component of laying in a bassinette for hours on end, after my mom disappeared. had a dream last night about me bonding with a young woman, which i figured out was my mom and my girlfriend in the 3rd grade. both disappeared. and i came to a conclusion and sadness while still in the dream, that i had not been paying attention to that young woman in the dream, i was off somewhere cleaning endless shit off my shirt (?) and when i came back,she was gone. not exactly sure what it all means in reality. except when anybody moves my ‘stuff”, i get a little nuts. new cat got outside yesterday, but we can’t let out ever, and she is one of those cats that gets bored shitless. i don’t think i am projecting that onto the cat, she just is kind of a live wire, a little, maybe a lot, maybe that is why someone took her to the pound. she does not appear to be destructive. cant afford a cat post because we got to buy presents for the grandkids, even though the millionaire aunt has filled their house with presents. yes i am a cranky old man, bitch bitch bitch. i was exhausted yesterday after doing a minimum of cleanup in the back yard, and i thought it might have also been related to the pre-birth feelings that i may or may not have been feeling on saturday. doom and gloom. not happy. never will be. had sex, it did little for me, maybe bonds us a little, but i am so fucking autistic with people, i don’t have any idea how this wife of mine has not gone completely nuts, having lived 40 years with the shell of a person that i am.

  170. Otto Codingian says:

    margaret, i wish i could respond more to your posts, i feel like i give nothing to anyone. if you were a cat, i could scratch your head. but this blog format does not allow me to really listen to you because i only go on here for short bursts to cry about myself, and briefly read the posts, but i can’t really “listen” that well to the posts. alternatively, i cannot stand to talk on the phone. i am very self-absorbed. what a wall i have constructed.

    • Jack Waddington says:

      Otto: It’s my feeling you do not have to respond to anyone’s blog comment, unless you feel you would like to; otherwise just keep putting your feelings and sentiments on the blog. I for one, feel that gives me a lot, and makes me reflect on myself.

      If you keep on doing this I feel that is enough for you at this moment in time. Good luck Otto, and keep blogging.

      Jack

  171. Otto Codingian says:

    sometimes it is hard to see how much my poor old cranky critical etc grandma influenced my personality. poor lady. i guess her endurance helped me in a positive way? ah maybe not so much.

  172. Margaret says:

    Otto,
    don’t worry, you are doing fine just as you are doing. you communicate fairly well actually.
    M

  173. Otto Codingian says:

    so many other times while visiting cousins and younger aunts on holidays or vacation, i would ignore or be ignored, wrapping myself up in a book or tv and food treats. random thoughts as i am doing the same thing, now at home alone before i go visit. my son is usually happy to engage me when we go visit him, even though i ignored him to a good extent when he was a child. i don’t know if he has any friends. i don’t know if many married men have male friends. probably they do. hope the kid has not accelerated his drinking pattern, which his wife encouraged with hers.

  174. Margaret says:

    today I went with my half sister to see my mom, knowing there was a music performance and dance event.
    my sister just had had an infiltration in her back that morning, so she could only do one slow careful dance with my mom, so I did some extra effort to dance with her.
    it was fun really, also as my mom seemed so well at ease there, going around to talk to other people, and finding other people to dance with.
    she had a ball, ha ha, and occasionally sat on the other side of the room, just waving at us.
    she was surprisingly fit on the floor, we did our version of the twist, a slow jive, and some other stuff, while we also sang along a bit here and there.
    the performer had some electrical piano or keyboard which of course attracted my mom a lot, and my sister ended up asking the guy, by the end of the party, if she could maybe play on it briefly.
    so the guy said ‘sure’, and announced her as a special guest star, who was gonna play ‘fur Elise’, and there she went.
    I held my breath a bit, but wow, she did just fine, playing with a lot of pleasure, covering up a few tiny mistakes with a lot of bravado, and ending with some theatrical fast notes, ha, great!!
    I immediately yelled ‘bravo!’ and the whole room started applauding enthusiastically. that made it easy and pleasant to get her to stand up and receive the applause while everyone including she was still very happy , and impressed with her. I told her how proud I was of her, and she seemed a bit surprised but also very pleased.
    of course she only remembered the first page of the piece she played, but she just made her own ending to it and played that with all the style of a born performer, I love that about her.
    she is so full of life, my sister filmed it and filmed me dancing with my mom as well.
    it also feels very good the other people there and the caretakers can see that side of her.
    a very nice afternoon in other words.

    Otto, you seem so aware of how your past influenced how you have been that I think you really might be in a stage it can start changing. wish you the best and hope it was a nice visit.
    after all your son and grand kids are not your old family members, and you are not your grandma.
    M

  175. Good for you Larry! We can’t go around things, the only way is through them! Welcome to the blog Melinda! 🙂 Gretch

  176. Phil says:

    I drove my wife to the airport yesterday and she’s in Spain now. I will be mostly alone here the next 3 weeks and typically I struggle with that. I’ll see what happens this time. We did a lot of texting today and that will help. In past years we had crappy phones but now we have good ones and that will help too.
    I had some deep crying today after work but I think it had more to do with the retreat, and stuff that regularly comes up, than with being alone.
    I feel on the verge of remembering more childhood stuff related to my mother, but it doesn’t quite come out.
    Phil

  177. Margaret says:

    Larry,
    I can’t imagine how you would end up on the hot seat in a group, it must have been mostly the other person/s issues playing up.
    and I am sure you can deal with whatever might have been relating to yours if so.
    hang in there and if you feel like a talk I am here as well whenever possible.
    M

    • Larry says:

      Yes Margaret I’ve been able to deal with the issues it brought up in me, and am grateful for the opportunity for insight and growth that the incident afforded, even though it means seeing truth that I never wanted to know. I feel for the poor little kid who I was who had to bear the burden of such hard soul destroying truth. I see it ever more stark and real that I never had and never will know the experience of being a child feeling secure in belonging in a loving family. I sense that almost all of my behaviour is coloured by the terror of being kicked out.

      I’m terrified of doing something wrong and being cast out. I lay low, stay quiet, watchful, wary and ‘safe’ (and ironically, invisible and outside, the opposite of a part of and belonging).

      Thanks for the offer to be there for me.

  178. Otto Codingian says:

    cranky like a mf. not sure if it is from my son pouring the garlic salt so freely on our barbecue stuff yesterday and raising our bp. kids were great, i think they are raising them very good somehow. but too hard for me to connect much, due to me. but they are friendly and pretty open. my wife connected to the kids and played well with them for hours. she connects to people easily. i don’t like to play. i could only pet the orange fat cat and skinny kitten, who hide under the couch because of the kids, i guess. i feel bad about my kid (their father) (or maybe i feel bad for myself when i was a harried father, with zero village, years ago). i am not sure if he gets what he needs, or maybe he is lonely. big bottle of vodka in plain sight in the kitchen, so he and his wife have obviously moved on past the wine arena. he did not appear to have been drinking but his speech was kind of delayed, meaning he may be drinking more than he should on a regular basis. i don’t know what or if there is anything i can do for him. at least he does not have to work a full 40 hours a week, which leaves him time to watch the energetic kids, but also means he has to pay $800 a month for health insurance. z is driving my cranky ass nuts today. she is, as i knew she would, costing me more dollars than when she was in ohio. and every other word out of her mouth is “i need need need…”. z out to go food shopping on what remains in our bank account, so i won’t be buying the little boy a pair of shoes (he seems to have a problem with shoes hurting his feet) and i wont be buying a big iron gate for them, so the kids dont wander out of the backyard, or the small rat carrier so my son does not have to hold his wife’s 2 rats while she cleans the cages (and how would i even get that for him, his wife would know he was complaining to us, she is hypersensitive about us, thank god she was at work yesterday when we were there.) moan moan moan. happy-go-lucky me.

  179. Otto Codingian says:

    Margaret, that is so great to hear about your visit to your mom and the dancing and her playing the piano. she sounds like a good person, like you said, full of life. i am happy for you.

  180. Otto Codingian says:

    thanks jack. good luck on your new home, when you go. it should be fun for you guys.

    • Jack Waddington says:

      Otto: thanks!! … but it’s ‘all a crap shoot’. Will remain on the blog from over there … so’s will keep you guys informed.

      Jack

  181. Jo says:

    Hello Blog/bloggers, I’m back in the uk, in a feeling not quite accessible, about leaving and arriving. The easy bit was the travelling, with a 5 hour delayed turbulent flight, I actually slept some! There’s no one here, just me…. part of the horrible feeling that arose prior to leaving, and now again.. what a great time I’ve had, at the retreat and in LA – so much going on- old friends, new people …. restful, busy, happy, sad, intense, helpful … feeling overwhelmed.

    • Melinda says:

      I bet :/ I know for myself, I certainly wasn’t prepared for how difficult it would be to re-acclimate to ‘real life’. Reading your post though makes it a wee bit less difficult 🙂 Thanks for sharing.

      • Larry says:

        If it’s any solace, Melinda, even the people living in LA tell me they go through a withdrawal period after the retreat when back in their regular lives.

    • Larry says:

      They should hold the retreat here in winter. Then everyone would be happy to be back home after the retreat. 🙂

      Kidding aside, here’s a hug for you, Jo.

  182. Vicki says:

    Larry, Phil, Jo and Melinda,

    Nice to see you all here, I am going through some post-retreat-withdrawal, missing friends I’ll likely not see for many months. I always wish I could have the good community that evolves at each retreat in spite of the gross fatigue that gets worse as the week progresses, largely from lack of sleep. I wish I could somehow carry “the good community” around in my pocket. I miss the people connections, which I don’t easily have in my life. Conversations at work are largely either work-related, or not-much-of-nothing, and seldom ever opportunity for anything more real. That is sad, and over time, deadening. So I have to rely on more phone calls, and emails, and here, which all help.

    Today my neighborhood is inundated with fireworks, it seems there aren’t enough on the planet. Big concussive boomers that make you jump in fright … at 1 pm., not even waiting for the dark. These people are insane, and spending lots of money on lots of stuff from Mexico, terrorizing all the animals and some of the people. Feels a bit like being in a war zone, but without the house falling down. It has been this way almost every day for months, but peaking today. They closed off my street from 10 to 10, erected jumpers and water slides in the street, barbecues and awnings, music and drums, kids running everywhere. I watered down my backyard thoroughly, because I always find a few spent fireworks the next day, and sometimes they land in my driveway too, I smelled the smoke through the windows. So I am very glad Baby has moved where she feels safe, even though I often miss her.

  183. Humanity's Supreme Superstar Guru says:

    Hi Vicki: I can relate a lot to what you say about conversational zombies at your workplace. They often appear as stilted, one-dimensional beings to me. I also appreciate your writings about the fireworks, yet it seems the problem is worse in California as compared to my local area.

    • Vicki says:

      To my surprise, it got worse! Since 8 pm, the heavy, concussive boomers have been going off right in the street in front of my house or on the side street. I counted an avg. 4 huge concussions per minute, until 90 went off in two minutes at 9:44 pm. PLUS the whole time since 8 pm, all the sparklers, screamers, lesser distant boomers and orchestras of color I am watching out my windows without even going outside. Finally starting to taper off, but nowhere near done. Absolutely insane amounts.

      i remember one year they went until 2 am, and then there was one more big boom at 4 am. I have to go to work tomorrow.

      • Humanity's Supreme Superstar Guru says:

        Indeed, it sounds horrible to tolerate. This may not sound like an immediately realistic option, but I would suggest considering investing in a large fireworks stand nearby (even as a partial owner or passive investor). This might help turn the frowns upside down when each future concussive boomer is unconsciously paired with the “ka ching!” cash register sound of another sale generated from my business suggestion.
        In the meantime, strong earplugs might help you sleep. I use 32 decibel rating foam ones for ultra-hostile sound environments.

      • Phil says:

        Vicki,
        It sure sounds like you live in a very lively neighborhood. I think we’ve had more fireworks here this year, but nothing like you describe. The laws were loosened up a bit concerning fireworks in NY a few years ago, not that that stops anyone anyway. I guess people got to have their fun but there should be some limits. One night or one week should be enough.

  184. Otto Codingian says:

    not TERRIBLE sounds of fireworks last night, but enough to make the dog very anxious and panting. we gave her dog pot and rescue remedy and belly rubs and she made it through it somewhat ok.

    • Vicki says:

      Otto, I tried Rescue Remedy, Thundershirt, extended physical contact, and acoustically-engineered music to calm dogs, but none seemed to help much except the music, sometimes. But still not enough to alleviate solid depression, no appetite, and hiding under the bed for 10 hrs. Then hiding in her kennel all day while I was gone. Really not good. It’s good your dog handled it somewhat better.

  185. Otto Codingian says:

    ringo said something on the radio tonite that he tries to live in the present, not the past or the future. keeps him good. i got too much yesterday stuck in me. cant see today much at all. i need the future to keep my mind off the past. but the future is always cloudy for me too. just bullshitting around with thoughts; it just sounded funny to hear him say that on the radio and my mind always comes up with some retort to say to the air, since the dog was thinking of her own thoughts in the backseat of the car while lady z was doing chores 1,2, and 3 and us waiting for her to get back in the car.

  186. Otto Codingian says:

    wahhh…alway sadness inside.

  187. Hey All, What a great retreat! I miss seeing so many of you daily 🙂 ! I just wanted to mention something that actually has not happened on the blog but should nevertheless be touched on. Many of you are comfortable using your names on the blog while some use aliases. Some of course simply read the blog without comment. Just a reminder to be careful not to mention the names of any other patient who is not identifying themselves here. I just wanted to be sure we remember to be respectful of everyone’s privacy. Thanks, Gretch

  188. Larry says:

    I flew back home from LA today, with a stop over in Vancouver. Each time I visit LA I feel deeper connections with friends there who I wish I could have near me always. Walking through the Vancouver airport to transfer to another plane, I had to squelch a rising sob while thinking about my good-bye session with Gretchen. Then I had to squelch another as I felt how good it was to be back home in Canada, although I wasn’t technically home yet. What was that all about?

    Now that I am home in my condo in my city, I’m too tired tonight to explore feelings. I do know that my actual home doesn’t feel like the home that I want. It’s too barren. After the retreat, I feel inspired to make it richer, to make my life fuller, somehow.

    I don’t know if it is wise to get back on the road tomorrow, but I’ll drive 600 miles to see a friend and together attend a folk festival for the next 4 days. I’ll have to hold off sinking into and exploring feelings and engaging in my life here until I return.

  189. Larry says:

    I’m at my brother’s, here to attend a folk festival with an old friend. I love my family but geez I miss primal friends, the retreat, and California. I need to cry about it but will have limited opportunity until I return home on Monday. So glad I went to the retreat and spent time with you all. It hurts to be so far away from you all now.

    • Phil says:

      Larry, I hope you enjoy the folk festival.

      • Phil says:

        I had a great experience at the retreat. I feel like I made therapeutic progress, which is what I wanted, besides being with everyone, but it feels like it’s never enough. The week went by really fast and now I’m back here. I will go on another trip in a few weeks and I look forward to that, but it is still very hard for me to be here alone. I know a lot of people are alone, so I feel ridiculous mentioning it, but that’s how it is for me. I have a camping trip this weekend which will help, but it got shortened because of rain.
        Yesterday some big feelings came up with a new insight. I connected deeper to a childhood memory where my sister got some attention from my mother but I got nothing.
        In the middle of the feeling other memories came out where my mother was just not there or she was, but completely unresponsive.
        I had thought that this was a somewhat neutral memory, but I’m learning it isn’t. The insight is that my mother seemed to love my sister but not me. I was ignored.
        When my sister was young, my mother was still well. By the time I came along my mother was sick and in bad condition for much of the time, but that doesn’t feel like an adequate excuse for what I experienced.
        A good lesson for me is to realize the importance of any memories which stand out; there’s probably a reason for that. It’s good to be able to write all this here.
        Phil

        • Vicki says:

          That does sound very productive, Phil. I’m glad. I am still integrating and reliving a lot of my retreat experiences, and feeling some breakthroughs expanding, it seems like more than usual. I hesitate to say too much, as it might not last, but for now, I’ll take it.

    • Vicki says:

      Larry, I would have to go drive somewhere and make an opportunity to cry, in those circumstances. I’d be going to the cemetery, or something equally opportune. When I’m at work, I have to “bottle up”, but often find it coming out as soon as I leave work.

  190. Otto Codingian says:

    Larry, what folk festival? banjo music?

    • Larry says:

      It is the Winnipeg Folk Festival Otto. It runs for four days. There are about 6 stages set up at various locations in a large park with trees, trails and open grassy areas, with performances from 10 am to 6 pm, and a large main stage with performances from 6 pm to midnight, all outdoors. The music ranges from traditional to modern folk music, bluegrass to some current pop songs, from banjo to acoustic and electric guitars.

      I’ve not had a chance to adjust to post-retreat. I flew home from the retreat, next day drove here, then today at the festival. My friend and I often go to different venues as we often aren’t both interested in the same artists. I can feel lonely.

      Here is one of the performers I enjoyed this afternoon.

      Sitting and listening to the performances, I find myself reflecting on my life in a more wide open eyed manner than I have before. I miss primal friends and the retreat atmosphere. I need to cry but haven’t had the opportunity. Feelings are bottling up. I need relief but it’s not happening.

  191. Otto Codingian says:

    V, my street was a nunnery compared to your street, as you describe it. the few fireworks here was enough to make our dog crazy. I think you made the best choice for baby.

    • Vicki says:

      Yeah, she would have been SO f-ing terrified here. My brother told me today that those big concussive crackers are illegal all over the state, but likely the local cops won’t ever enforce that law, since they and the neighbors are all from the same culture that makes and sells them (Mexico). Even at her new home, they had more fireworks this year, but not so many or so loud, nor every day. They said she was scared and shaking for awhile, but it subsided and passed.

  192. Otto Codingian says:

    phil, i agree with you totally about the importance of any memories that stand out. i have the strangest snippets of memories, well they often don’t stick out as memories so much. just things i say or see that seem kind of weird, and i wonder why they continue sticking out for me. and as i cry, things kind of get a little clearer to what really might be the impetus of these things, i guess that is “insight”, but i have some of these things i have just not gotten to the bottom of. i am probably not being real clear about explaining this and i don’t have a handy example. i have been gorging myself all day, nothing to do, so full of food that i am nowhere near any feelings nor do i care to be. had to drive wife up to ventura today for her monthly job meeting. walked the dog and ate shit hotdogs and shit barbecue, and i would rather have been at work feeling somewhat useful.

  193. Otto Codingian says:

    so i listen to white album. that one was big for me.

  194. Otto Codingian says:

    no tears. but that was a sad sad time for me. jr. high/high school. but also a good amount of joy in junior high, at least. sea scouts and some good friends, typing class, young girls i could not have, no guidance of much (that is something more needed in school). at some point, moved out of my bedroom shared with my brother. moved into the garage. my first job at jack-in-the-box. drugs.

  195. Otto Codingian says:

    but some minor dates with girls, never really many dates, not sure why, possibly i acted like the woman that my grandma wanted me to be.

  196. Otto Codingian says:

    acted like an OLD woman, at that. so many memories. devastating memories.

  197. Otto Codingian says:

    actually hanging around with friends, listening to music that we all liked. i miss that so much.

  198. Otto Codingian says:

    piggies. i think i struggled to learn how to play that on the my mom’s piano, with my limited piano skills.

  199. Otto Codingian says:

    piggies. that one is really hitting me. heavy. sob. but i will listen to the rest of this.

  200. Otto Codingian says:

    dont pass me by. i used to listen to that in friday group when it was still the time when you got 20 minutes with a therapist. at some p.i. when leslie was still doing those groups. maybe mark and eva too, or that was later. this song always brought tears and i don’t know why, never got to the feeling. something about the violin. not sure if my grandma’s brother played violin once for us.

  201. Otto Codingian says:

    keep getting ads on youtube for jane goodall masterclass. about chimps. that might be something worth looking at. in the fall or something. i loved her work.

  202. Otto Codingian says:

    something about a marimba in my garage. can’t think of the other name. was probably my grandma’s husband who left her alone to raise 3 daughters circa 1940, by way of heart attack. she never talked about him to me, or much about my mom. not sure if marimbas were in a box or if they were set up or not. don’t know if i tried to play them. then they were gone, maybe she sold them. she had a life of pain and i feel bad for her, but sure wish she could have shared more with me. she kept us alive though, by taking the bus to work in downtown l.a. every day well into her 60’s. the somewhat safety of white california existence in the 60’s also kept us alive.

    • Linda says:

      can you expand on what you meant when you wrote….”the somewhat safety of white California existence in the 60’s”…..is it dangerous to be white in California now? Linda

  203. Otto Codingian says:

    sometimes, it’s the voice that gets me. sweet, young, innocent voice.Me Singing ‘Hey Jude’ By The Beatles (Full Instrumental Cover By Amy Slattery) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVLsH-VCABg

  204. Otto Codingian says:

    good loud cry in back room at pi a little while ago. i could not be this loud at home and i would feel exposed doing this in my car. as usual, i thought nothing would come up. but i started feeling bad as i approached the pi, listening to beatles on the radio. the dj was talking about rolling stones and i was remembering the slightly older mexican guy i worked with at jack in the box when i was in high school. happy guy, as a lot of mexicans are, and he took me under his wing saying you can’t just listen to beatles and gave me his rs record. he could have been a mentor to me, could have helped me in all the love problems i was having, but he joined the air force before they could draft him. and went away out of my life. the dj played a beatles song, i cant even remember the song now, but it reminded me how ALL men had lovers except me. ALL men had love. i searched my ipod for the song and i found a better one, what goes on in your mind.

  205. Otto Codingian says:

    this was a song another guy turned me onto, in his perfectly quirky room of his artistic house on the beach, that his lawyer father and his mom had. the crying was about that time period again, junior high and high school. unable to get love or touch or kiss like everyone else was. not getting it at home either from my poor old grandmother. the girl i was smitten with in high school strung me along since she had a boyfriend already but i did not know that. but she felt good enough to have me take her to doors concerts every now and then. anyway i cant remember much more from this cry and i really don’t know what good it did to yell out my anguish from those years. what a loss, what a big hole in my heart. as i said, love was all around me, but i couldn’t get any. oh yes, i remember. while everyone else was enjoying their teenage years, i patterned myself after my grandmother. work work work. not hanging around people that could have helped me get a girl. gave up too easy and got into wine and pot and amphetamines and acid, which made the problem worse. this cannot be repaired, no matter how much crying i do. i remember some of the adults in my life, and how none of them really asked me about me and girls, or much of anything, actually. just tried to get me to work work work, or go to church. no hints on how to get love.

  206. Otto Codingian says:

    i might have been feeling in this arena (junior high/high, lack of love) for a while now, weeks, months, years ? this cry/scream certainly felt like i was feeling it more deeply than ever before, but as i said, so what. i don’t feel much relief, and this was such a big ongoing black hole of loneliness and lovelessness in my life for many years, and now my life is coming to an end,so fucking what. what with the loss of all these pets lately and the guilt i feel about those pets, that will never be healed either. i will never be happy. too late. i pity my poor wife. i am unfit to be around. my only refuge will be going to work on monday.

  207. Otto Codingian says:

    i feel a tiny amount of relief. i did not leave the pi until i was sure nothing else was coming out of me. not much use to go to group and listen to other people while i cant get 2 words out about my own experience. i mean, it is good to listen to other people sometimes, but enough is enough. i cant talk in group, and i think that that is important for me and frustrating since i can’t, even talk when asked to talk, i feel like i should not be talking, for some reason. i certainly could not tell anyone these feelings when i was young, and i cant tell anybody now. anyway, wife wants to go get watermelon.

  208. Otto Codingian says:

    i think i broke this. anyway went to beach with z today and saw kid brieflyk, he was waitering at his restaurant at the beach. felt great sadness as we gave each other a half-hug. maybe we go longer next sunday. feel kind of down, still stuck in the feeling or whatever, because i got tears listening to this one, i loved the new wave music of the 80’s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snnrYpniUtg INXS – “What You Need” (Lyrics On Screen) “l’LL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU NEED”…now that’s something i could have used all my life….

  209. Jo says:

    Otto, I find talking in group too

  210. Otto Codingian says:

    Jo, do you know why? i am not going to go into my reasons, i have said enough.

  211. Jo says:

    Guys, please can you come back onto Page two?…it takes forever to download for me on the original page..
    This is also another attempt to post something, as I’ve been unable to so far today

    • Jo says:

      This is what I wrote earlier (hope it posts this time)

      It was the hardest thing from the start of therapy. In a nutshell, I was raised with the feeling of not mattering whatsoever, so mostly went around in a little bubble. But demands were made on me to be perfectly socially adjusted suddenly at the drop of a hat, from parents who were public figures. In other words, attention would be drawn to me in a social situation for the benefit of my parents – in responding instantly to strangers questions, performing on demand… I’m talking right from early…Being under the spotlight in group reflects that perfectly.
Now I’m saying, I recall shame at being me, which is twisted.
By the time I’d adjusted to the institutionalised life at boarding school, amoungst a mix of girls who had variations of the same background to greater or lesser degree, I found a way of getting attention by ‘showing off’, talking, playing piano, being grandiose I guess – the opposite of shy..
I realise that this is why people ask why I’m loud/ sociable/ outside of groups at retreats, as opposed to quiet in groups.
      This retreat, in one of the big groups, I felt some fear of having to speak at some point, and suddenly felt horrible, hated and alone. An escape plan came to mind – I would leave La Casa, get an Uber, then a train back to LA. Then a memory of the same feeling and an escape plan I periodically had at school, where I would run away, to home, but that was impossible, so I’d fantasise about running to the woods, and building a shelter, and foraging. Desperate.

  212. Leslie says:

    So sad Jo!
    It does explain how stricken and small you appear in groups at times.
    Must be so hard…
    L

  213. Larry says:

    I drove back home yesterday from the folk festival that I attended with a friend while I stayed with family. It was a 9 hour drive including stops along the way. Today is my first normal day home following the retreat. I feel lost, small, anxious. Where is everyone? Your are so far away. I feel too alone and small and frightened. The feeling is I am too small to do life alone. I feel like I need to leave here and get near people who know me and care. I need to find more connection.

  214. Humanity's Supreme Superstar Guru says:

  215. Otto Codingian says:

    jo, did you have the foraging plan in your head while you were in class, or maybe when you were in bed at night. forgive me for being nosy; it is reminding me of something in myself but i can’t put my finger on it.

  216. Otto Codingian says:

    oh everyone has been on page 1 for a week or so, while i was droning endlessly on and on on page 2. WELL! you could have just said shut the f up! oh i am so hurt. NOT! just kidding. i thought the world had ended and i was all alone.

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