This page is for comments
Great, thank you Gretchen. A clean slate to start over.
Not to dwell on the point for too long, but I was the one who came up with the idea of making new pages when too many comments overloaded previous pages. My idea was presented many years ago and forgotten by most. Don’t I earn the favors of 72 virgins for my previous insightful efforts?
Me thinks that you try and hide your feelings with a jest.. But who am I to think? I personally am well antiquated with not receiving recognition for deeds done and the accompanying feelings of such neglect. I am a female but I would personally prefer to have the “favors” of 72 experienced persons
I would be happy to respond to your post if you would like to read it, but I would rather provide such a response away from the blog. This would require exchanging emails, so no worries if this approach happens to make you feel uncomfortable. My feelings won’t be hurt if you decline; I am only placing this offer on the table so you won’t perceive that I ignored what you said. Happy trails.
We expect nothing less from our computer wizard super guru. Have fun in your afterlife searching for your virgins.
Sylvia: That’s interesting that you’d say *my* afterlife in pursuit of those 72 virgins. If Art says there’s no afterlife at all, maybe it only applies to him and not the rest of us 7 billion mortals?
Guru, I say whatever makes you happy is what counts and whatever gets us all through the night and works for us by way of good imprints from how we were raised.
No reason to follow anyone else’s beliefs or doubt your own.
Leslie and Larry, I saw your responses – thanks..
Otto, I have a feeling I had the running away fantasy when I was in class, and because of the visuals that come up with the memory, I was in the senior school, i.e. over 11 years old.
yesterday when I would go visit my mom with my half-sister, I felt kind of sick in the morning, but made myself go to my half sister anyway, hoping it would get better.
she told me then she also had a lot of trouble with her back but that she would go if I wanted to, but not o her own this time as she did not feel up to that.
I had to make an urgent visit to her bathroom again and then decided to go back home, and did not eat anything all day and had a nap.
did call my mom who was very supportive.
called her again today, it was nice chatting with her.
feel a bit better, started the day with cooked rice, adding a spoonful of jam to improve the taste, rested a lot and gradually ate some more.
got up early though, as someone would come by early morning to go get my new identity card, when I was all dressed and ready she called she was ill..
so that left me another appointment in the afternoon to go grocery shopping in the supermarket with someone else, but hey, a few hours later I got a call that person was ill too…
so I made myself comfortable again, and spent the afternoon in bed with my cats, studying a little bit, and listening to some lovely books about cats, which made me cry as part of it was about one of the cats dying.
the leftover cat mourned, together with the cat mom and her husband, and a few weeks later they got another female kitty to accompany the big sad male.
at first he did not want to know about the stranger, but as days went by and the happy little kitty just let him be grumpy and kept reaching out to him and playing, he got around and the stories again became delightfully endearing and funny.
I ordered some of the books as a gift for my brother, they are made of a whole eerie of columns of the lady about her cats, to which she added gorgeous pictures and photographs she made of her cats.
I have the audio books, and I keep rereading them, they are so lovely, warm and touching.
I will try and find the remaining books of the set and also give one to my mom and a girlfriend.
too bad I think they are only in Flemish so far, they are really really nice to read, despite of the sad parts.
it brought up my own sadness of my former cat.
the lady writer mentioned as well it is their vulnerability which triggers, and their innocence and love, love for life and love for those they trust.
and so many funny tricks all cats share in one form or another, come to think of it gonna buy the set of books just to have them in my place, for possible cat loving visitors a certain delight!
cuddled my own cats even more than usual this evening, and they sure love it..
Nenad, I’m answering your question below on this page.
“Were you at this last retreat in Santa Barbara, Jack Waddington mentioned to me. How was it for you. What are your impressions? Tell me.”
Yes I was at the last retreat and it was a powerful experience for me. It’s a beautiful location for a retreat and the weather was just about perfect all week. I guess it’s more or less like that all year round. The Casa de Maria facility is just gorgeous. It is a very special place and it seems therapeutic just being there
The retreat was painful for me in that the therapy groups were triggering, but I did get relief in the form of some big feelings, and that’s what I was expecting and hoping would happen, so I’m satisfied about that.
I also had two individual therapist sessions which were very helpful,l as was the buddying. Everyone was helpful and supportive. The food was great, as always and I did some fun things too, such as swimming in the pool, playing tennis and croquet, attending the auction, trying virtual reality, doing yoga, going into Santa Barbara, and just hanging out with everyone. I reconnected with friends from past years at the retreat and from this blog.
In general I don’t do well with groups, but that’s improving I think. Many of the people at the retreat I’ve met at past retreats, but there were quite a few I hadn’t met before. It was great to meet Jack who I’ve only known from this blog, and the other primal forum. I regret that I wasn’t able to connect with everyone as fully as I would have liked. But that’s the story of my life and a reason why I’m in therapy.
OK, now logged into page 3. That done I/we can get on with the move.
Got all the shipping (89 cubic feet) of stuff off yesterday, after several days packing it all; now I/we are left having to cope with most of our stuff gone. Ah well!!!
I am a little surprised that I am not feeling much stress over this move at my age. I have moved locations and countries several times in my life, but that did not re-assure me it would be an easy move this time. So far it is, and I put that down to quite a lot of silent feelings at the retreat. Silent because it was all feelings before I was able to make noises. (continuing)
There is the possibility I might have to the re-orient myself, and adapt to non English speakers around me. Even the prospects of not having a car, since public transport is very convenient and easy, but will my legs get me to the buss and train stops??? I’ll soon find out.
For now, we should be able to fly off after August 25th and before September the 1st. So once again “Ta ta”, waving my hand, as I used to say in early early childhood. Will still be on the blog as soon as we get connected to the internet.
Keep us informed as to how you are doing Jack.
Larry: I sure will. there’s no way (except death) that’ll keep me off this blog.
Hope things are getting better for you Larry and hope you can begin to enjoy retirement.
Take care Jack
good luck with the move!
it is courageous and telling of how much love there is between you and Jim.
I am curious as to how it will go, and wonder about a lot of things, like will you be living in a city, village or in a little former farmhouse or something with a garden?
or an appartment?
be prepared for variable weather. right now we had some rainy days and tonight the heater went on. but it seems to be getting sunny and a bit warmer today.
and 95 procent of the Dutch speak and understand English, though of course you will indeed be surrounded with them yapping in \\Dutch anyway.
hope you will be able to come visit Antwerp some day, or maybe I can find some way to come see you.
Margaret: thanks for the “good wishes” and sensing that there are a lot of good feelings between me and my Jimbo. That’s true, for the most part, but we do have our rows also.
I thought I had told everyone on the blog about where we are going, BUT on second thoughts perhaps I did that only at the retreat; so!!! here:-
It is a chalet in a park for chalets in the village, in the province of Gelderland) not too far from the Belgian border It’s surrounded by farms and rural countryside.
The chalet itself has it own space with a lot of garden, shrubs and trees, each chalet having it’s own space. I haven’t seen it, but Jim went there to look at it and the lady currently occupying it, likes Jim. The big snag was she’s taking all her furniture so we are not going to be able to move-in immediately. We will take an apartment in a nearby town until we’ve furnished it. (two weeks or so). [Continues, cos having trouble AGAIN]
The one thing that will worry me is the weather, but I suspect I’ll grow to accept it. If not, I’ll make a bid to move A GA I N to the south of Spain (but doubt that will ever come to be).
Yes the Dutch, Swiss and most other countries have rudimentary English under their belt, but I will have to learn to say and understand more than “Got verdomme” “Danku vel” “Ja” and “nee”.
I had thought about a trip to ‘Antwerpen’ would be a possibility. AND when we’ve built an intended ‘add-on’ would be able to accommodate you, should you visit. That will not happen until the early part of next year.
I am having a lot of feelings, good bad and indifferent, about all this, that I will relate in another post a little latter.
Meantime take care Margaret Jack
Last night was into that same old feeling of ‘mini convulsions’. I had them at the retreat nearly every day. No sound; just the convulsive movements. The surprise was that I got little insights afterwards and wondered why. This morning all that came clear.
Since the feeling are pre-birth; during 9 hours of labor, it seemed as if I had to do these feeling for the full 9 hours before I got any insights. What is revealing is that the whole of my being is dominated by all this and some other old feelings. The current situation of getting out of the US and making this move, is akin to that “getting out” of the womb. Is this why I have moved out of one environment to another, so many times in my life??? (continuing)
There is another aspect to all this, and that is my NEED for my own ORDER of things. I am forever sorting out stuff in an orderly fashion for myself. It never occurred to me to figure out WHY. I just compulsively did it. It’s a hard one to explain just why, in that 9 hours I needed order, so I will leave it as vague as that.
I also see why my Jimbo is the way he is, and how that is sometimes a conflict between us. It’s useful to know, but that does not mean I always respond appropriately to our situation. It’s like as Art has often said; ‘we are more often than not on Auto Pilot’.
So!!! onward ‘Christable Soldiers’ ;;) and when connected to ‘civilization’ (that old human delusion … nothing ‘CIVIL’ about us) will let you’s all know how it goes with us.
That is an interesting connection Jack.
My thought about the weather is that having other interesting things to dominate your life makes it easier to cope with disagreeable weather. That is, find a lot of positive diversions in life to diminish the unpleasant weather that you can’t do anything about, other than wear appropriate clothing and have a warm house and car or move.
If I was wealthy I’d have a second home in Santa Barbara, Spain or Greece.
Larry: I too felt it was an interesting connection.
I also would get a second home in either Spain or Greece, BUT Trump puts the ‘nakers’ on Santa Barbara as lovely as it is.
thanks for filling me/us in so well, it immmediately gets easier to picture ..
one good thing about the Netherlands in general is they have a very good urbanising system with regulations that leaves a lot of open space, so gorgeous vast (flat) landscapes with huge beautiful skies above them, filled with all kinds of often beautiful clouds with effects of the sunshine through them, and also a fair amount of open skies, in between the dull grey ones.
but then again, if it happens to snow in winter that can be beautiful as well.
a good heating system and good cloths for all kinds of weather helps…
we just had a heat wave for two weeks, now it is kind of moderate and variable…
not sure where exactly Gelderland is situated, will look it up..
Margaret: I learned from Jimbo about the care the Dutch take to make life pleasant with living space and they sure have a great sense of coziness. The weather … well !!!! I sure know about that from my time in England. The flatness of the Netherlands is a bit of a problem, since I’ve always lived in more mountainous and hilly surroundings. I just hope the sea levels don’t rise too much, otherwise even the dykes might give-way. Drowning is not my choice either. Sleeping and NOT waking would be my choice … IF I had any choice in the matter 😀 .
Me too, not sure where exactly Gelderland is situated. Presumably Jimbo has not forgotten enough of his Dutch after 36 years here. So will hope we don’t get lost … below sea level.
A few nights ago I had a dream in which I had to cross a very narrow ridge from one mountaintop to the other, a scary thing I had to do in order to see the beauty of the land on the other side.
I put myself like on horseback on the ridge, leaning forwards, and had to slowly move forward like that, all the time feeling I could lose my balance at any given moment, and fall hundreds of meters deep to the left or right. but hey, I managed to do it, which seems like a hopeful development.
today had another dream, see next comment.
today I dreamed a long complicated dream, starting off nicely enough, by finding a quiet roof in the middle of town with a wooden seat, in which I felt safe and actually took a nap, yes, in the dream.
at waking up, still feeling kind of rosy, I stood up, but to my dismay discovered I had stood up on a side where I was on a very narrow piece of roof between the chair and the deep abyss to the street, no wall there to protect me.
I felt so scared that I knew I would fall if I would try to get away with small steps to the side, was terrified, but then pushed the chair into the middle part of the roof and was safe again.
for a h
while, as when i went down into the town, all kind of stuff started happening.
at first I felt good, even comforted a scared girl, but then the situation deteriorated, a murder was committed at a close distance, only a few steps away to start with.
I was still more or less in balance, but then a mugger got hold of my purse.
he took my money out of it, but hey, I started struggling with him and got some of it back, mixed with other bills of foreign money.
I felt OK about that, but soon after, in the crowd, I felt a sharp knife touching my neck and knew the angry mugger had returned.
still I managed to get hold of his knife, but immediately felt the knife of a fellow of him in the low of my back, which luckily did not seem as sharp as it had not really hurt my skin yet.
still now i did become really scared, and started trying to call out to the policemen who had arrived in the meantime for that murder that had just occurred.
we were rounded up and I turned out to be part of the group of suspicious people to be interrogated, to my frustration.
when finally a scruffy policeman singled me out I hoped to be able to clear things out soon.
continue in next comment
but what happened is that the policeman who looked scruff, as I said, took me to a busy hallway of what looked like an old underground station, and left, to come back soon I hoped, as I wanted his help.
looking around, I saw the whole place looked very scruffy, and as good as everyone there seemed marginal in some way, or some kind of lowlife, or criminal or pervert, they walked by, glancing at me to check if I could be a victim.
I decided to go look for the policeman and went into another corridor, but more of the same, with an increasing feeling of feeling lost and frustrated and, as I finally realized at waking up, after a little while, unsafety.
only when that connection dawned on me, that it all has to do with feeling the world is, or can be a very hostile unsafe place, I could drop my tension level just a bit…
but right after I got a glimpse of a part of a big old feeling of almost choking on something thick and slimy, and briefly started panting a bit…
as I say, a hell of a complicated dream, and no fun…
I had a lunch appointment today, but did not feel up to it at all, but started preparing myself anyway, getting up in time, bath, choosing what to wear, but by the time I was dressed and ready, I felt a bit nauseous, felt I was either too warm or too cold, and had a strong headache.
I did get hold eventually of my lunch mate, and we postponed the meeting for another day, next week if possible.
told him the food poisoning was still playing up, partly true probably.
it is not pleasant to become aware of that huge feeling of unsafety i live with.
as a young adult I was not easily scared, ventured late at night all over town exploring, was always more curious and adventurous than scared, maybe a counter phobic attitude, or maybe the fear is linked to the disability , but I think mixed together with old deep rooted fears.
now that my lunch date got canceled, I felt such relief I immediately got into action, after putting comfortable inelegant cloths on, and started cooking, and changing sheets etc.
I hate not to be more in control of my life, hate to be feeling my fears run my life or keep me back, yet I have to find a middle way to manage the stress and to take care of myself.
I think it was good in this case to postpone the lunch, as I would not have been able to enjoy it, headache and nausea and too much fear and unhappiness, to go eat with not such a close friend…
ha, sorry if I bored someone, smiley, had to share this to release some of the load..
How was your holiday by the sea with friends Margaret, or did you already write about that and I missed it^
just started crying while listening to a book in which in the story some things finally fell into place.
part of my old distress seems to be the desperate need for the world to be OK, for my family to be OK, loving and normal and no one hurting or hurting anyone.
for being happy myself, start to cry again.
maybe not going to the retreat is what I needed to do, in this phase of my therapy giving up the hope for comfort or getting needs met by someone there..
needing to face my desperation, sadness, fear, loneliness.
wow, good I laid down on the couch and allowed myself to cry.
big big fat tears, throat aching like hell until I also allowed myself to wail.
no specific memories, just crying and sadness.
then after a lot of tears, a moment of rest.
then thought about how I also got triggered by the book with cat stories and specially be the stories about one of the cats dying.
the seeming senselessness of a beautiful, loved vulnerable being just coming to an end is so big.
kind of can make life seem pointless at times, while of course at other times it reflects the deepness of the love and preciousness of that life.
but why does it have to end too soon or in a bad way?
that made me cry again.
then cuddled with my cats, and feel it is very good this tension got some way out of my system at least.
part of it, ha!
margaret, glad you got rid of some tension. death does indeed seem senseless.
I had imagined to go there already, but my friends went to France for three weeks ..
they are about to come back though, too bad the weather won’t be as summery anymore!
makes me remember I need to have the cat sitter over to give her a set of keys just in case..
and the sailing week is only for the last week of august..
must say the cry did liberate me from a real load today, for the time being.
glad I decided to write here about it, it was the drop that made the bucket flow over..
throat ache gone, headache diminished, mood a lot less hopeless, those tears really felt big and fat, like full of bad stress hormones.
good for my immune system to get that out of my body…
and for my spirit..
That sounds like a lot of intense dreams. It’s great that the feelings then came out
I went to the gym this morning and played racquetball before coming to work. The first time since the retreat and it was a reminder how much I enjoy doing that and the exercise has me feeling better. Also, it’s Friday which helps.
you bet! a big relief, feel tired now but less tense and scared.
a bit of after feeling suddenly struck me, when it just struck me how all the tension does relate indeed for a big part to the disability and the feeling of unsafety and lack of control it causes. also the recurrent theme of searching for the way home, links both old feeling and present pain.
also it explains up to a degree my need for codeine in the evening to have a break and feel a bit of relaxation for a while.
I am already going without again for a little while and want to stay off it now for as long as possible, last time was over two months without it, now I do not even plan, want to start considering it my natural way of life to be without.
the long term goal of better health in every way instead of the short term satisfaction with an unknown price tag..
at this stage of my life it would be really stupid to take unnecessary risks, if I don’t make the best of my life now I might not get another chance..
I think I understand some of how you feel, Margaret. At some point during the retreat I saw with clarity the movie of my life and how I had made major decisions and took what had felt like were big risks to steer it along a path more of my own, and time passed by, and much of my life is done now, much of it in the way that I wanted. It went by so quickly, it seems now. But time keeps relentlessly moving on oblivious of whether we are ready or not, taking us along, or knocking us aside and leaving us behind as casualties in our only crack at life.
Now I’m in likely the last quarter, on a path I’m unused to and challenged by as a single retired adult, and time still moves on and mine will end sure enough. The end is real, as real as being young once was. I could get through this last quarter comfortably numb, but then I imagine I’d feel a horrible unease when on my deathbed and seeing my life flash before me, I’d beg and plead for a second try at this last quarter to take more risks and make more of it than just comfortably numb. Meanwhile the clock keeps ticking and the number of my days left keep diminishing.
you such a poet, larry.
I just finished with some big feelings, triggered by music. I seemed deeper than ever into memories about my mother; just how unapproachable she was at a certain point, or maybe all the time, I’m just not sure about that. I was remembering more fully how she was and what it was like to be around her. I loved my mother, isn’t it that we all love our parents as children, no matter how bad they are? And I lost her in the middle of childhood, and no relationship after that to complicate things.
Really sad and desperate feelings, I needed and wanted so much from her and didn’t get it, that I can remember, as well as the huge sadness of what happened to her.
That probably means that there’s probably nothing good to remember about her, but that remains a conclusion difficult for me to come to, but I seem to be moving in that direction. It seems that deep inside me I’ve still believed all along that there’s some good memories about her yet to be recovered which I can hold onto and those will somehow fix things. Instead, the process of course is about getting deeper and deeper into how bad it was, with no end in sight .. Also some insights how I walk around with this stuff all the time, and the effect that it has, and what it might be like without it now, or in the past.
Hi Phil, some times it’s hard to face the facts. It’s easier to gloss over things and think everything wasn’t so bad, but like you say, our depressed outlook from missing being cherished shows up when relating to others.
I’m surprised that we can be mistreated as adults too and feel like little kids being hurt. I blamed myself for not being strong enough to take whatever was dished out. Living with my mom felt like having a demanding boss instead of what should have been like living with a friend.
But we just have to feel what it did to us, and I still have dreams about our relationship. The other night in the dream I said something that would provoke her, I stood up for myself, and I could feel her anger and power as she stared at me. Earlier in the dream I had said, ‘you don’t see me, you don’t even know me.’ So much for mother-daughter relationship.
Sounds like you are becoming more confident and able to see more.
jo, i have an image of me staring out the window in elementary school, day-dreaming, or drawing crude pictures of submarines in class. not sure what the rest of the class was doing. maybe i finished my work quickly since it was easy for me. i got books about the war in the pacific from the library, that is why i drew pictures of submarines.
i am going to start working more overtime on the weekend, because my lovely wife’s teeth are giving her problems and draining my wallet. i don’t think i am going to have a problem dragging myself to work for the 6th day, since my wife can watch the dog.
here is a story guaranteed to bring tears to us cat lovers. Firefighters rescue stray cat named Flame before realizing he actually rescued them http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/firefighters-rescue-stray-cat-named-flame-realizing-rescued/story?id=48635811 . certainly the siamese cat i had in my teenage years saved my life.
there is supposedly a pack of feral cats in the building where we store our old broken computers at work. i have not seen them, and i suppose they will trap them and they will eventually be put to sleep. nothing i can do about it. i am overwhelmed. i saw a giant coyote wandering around this building the other day, looking for food. i have my desk in this building, so i can put the old equipment on pallets and get some overtime every day. i am on my own a lot at that desk, i cannot concentrate in the other building, too many noisy people. my fellow technician friend also has a desk in there but he goes out a lot to help people with their computer issues. currently, he is energizing me to get moving with a project to take the new computers to our hospital workers to replace their old ones. no one has been really watching the guys in the warehouse. there are 800 new computers that have been mislaid and the bosses don’t seem to care about it. i am the only one who seems to care and i waste a lot of time running spreadsheets of what the vendor says they sent to the warehouse versus what our computers say we have in the warehouse. 800 missing. well, i keep asking various logistics people by email about these pc’s to no avail; i guess i will have to find time to call them up next week. exciting life in west l.a. it’s a living…but this trump stuff is just fascinating to me. not to the small-town folks, i guess, they still love him. i can’t get this image out of my mind about his last campaign rally that he had, even though he was already elected. he always has young women supporters sitting behind him in these rallys, a few of which i have watched on tv. the last one, some young women with baseballs caps were behind him. they kind of looked like real small-town young women just having fun being there. i guess there is not a lot of excitement in small towns.
My first thought was what if the bosses are in on the scam.
what is the other primal blog?
Otto: Phil would the best one to give you the other blog, that I’m aware of ” The Primal Support Group”. don’t remember the http, BUT I feel Phil knows, he facilitates it.
with all the the talk about trump in the news, not much has been said about the state-size chunk of ice that broke off in the artic, or the other artric, this week. jack i hope you are not moving too close to the coast. or maybe you can get a rowboat.
phil, how did the music trigger you? a line in the song? a song from that time? the lightness or darkness of the melody?
I was listening to some Beatles songs which I already know can trigger me. I was feeling something was ready to come out so I played them on youtube. In this case I have a history with those songs but I think even if hearing them for the very first time they could strike me. It’s the melodies, the singing etc, which seem to speak to me. Of course, these are songs which are very popular for a reason, but I’m just very sensitive to music. It’s a good thing I am because that helps a lot.
just read your reply about the senselessness of death, or mostly of unpleasant death..
have to read all the other comments still but felt like responding as it reminded me of a memory that seems like a thorn deep under my skin..
the first dog I remember we had, with the name of Sokrates, my mom’s choice, was a mixed Belgian Shepard, a yellow version of the German Shepard.
my parents got him out of the asylum and he was well loved, while in those days he was still kept as a chain dog a lot of the time, but with a long chain, and a good shelter house, and plenty of food and water and attention and cuddles.
I remember even crawling into his dog house .
so he had a fairly ok life in comparison with the kennel, and knew he was loved.
we had him for years, but one day when for some reason he was roaming around freely, he ran in the fields and trees behind our own garden, and did not come back.
later on I heard my dad, or brother, I am not sure, found him, drowned in a hidden water reservoir under the ground, from which the stone cover was broken.
I can’t stand the idea of that poor dog one moment happily running around, and the next falling into that dark pit, to then desperately swim and scratch and scratch and wail and hope in vain. It still makes me cry now, while at the time we were more or less sheltered from the details, we did know about that pit as we played there as kids as well.
I think my dad had no idea it was there, and asked the owners then to immediately cover it up. but the sad damage was done, killing an innocent being in a horrible way.
blaming fate is senseless, it is just an open and free universe I guess where bad accidents can happen, so sad so sorry poor dog, sorry we could not save you from that and maybe even have treated you better still.
now I remember a picture we had from him, laying in his dog house, a nice one my dad made, peeking out and looking to us , a very nice big picture that had its place on the chimney.
well, starting the day with big tears again, good, as I have a headache again, maybe it will help this time too.
did that cat turn the fire alarm on and the sprinklers?
was hard to make it out for me..
and I once, many years ago, read a book , fiction, about a giant iceberg breaking loose from the antarctic, and then slowly making its way up with the currents towards Manhattan, where it would cause devastations when colliding with the hard rock sub-ground of that part of the continent.
then the rest of the book was about the frantic attempts to make it change its course.
that sounds like quite a direct dream, that is so good to hear, it shows how you indeed manage to go to the core of your feelings, even while sleeping. very effective way to adress feelings if you ask me, I am very grateful for every useful dream I have.
and for the nice ones too, smiley.
Hi Margaret, yes, it seems dreams are a gateway for feelings rattling around I didn’t even know were there. There were strong images, too. In the dream my mom approached me gliding toward me like a queen on a chess board as I stood there not able to move knowing she could do anything, even kill me and I could do nothing about it,–and for no good reason she didn’t hurt me, as if knowing I knew that was good enough for now. Intimidation. Maybe it was shades of being a baby stuck in the birth canal but I always had a big fear of her growing up even though I had a fairly nice childhood and felt loved. I could see her rage at older siblings and those times made me afraid.
In her last 5 years at times she could barely contain her rage then uninhibited by dementia and the surfacing memories of her terrible childhood. I think what sustained me was knowing she gave all she could to us kids as we were growing up.
today I feel a lot stronger and more balanced again. it is a bit colder, but I can cope more easily by just putting another layer on and being ok, for me not obvious and very important.
I really must remember this when the temptation to renew the special painkiller prescription strikes.
I can feel fine with occasional dips just without any chemical around for comfort.
and I must specially remember the backlash effects, the physical uneasiness and low sense of immunity, not at all to be compared with the sledgehammer of real withdrawal symptoms, but therefor all the more sneaky.
I must use those dreams in which I solve the being stuck on the edge of a roof, or having to pass a dangerous mountain ridge, to hang on to believing I can do it, I can cope despite the fear…
After the folk festival I just can’t seem to get my life going, now that it’s time I got on with it following the retreat. I have no drive. I feel a growing, aching, heavy, draining weight where there should be vitality. Maybe it’s due to the cold I came home with from the folk festival. Maybe it’s due to other health concerns. I feel my life shrinking into an ever smaller dark lonely sphere that I feel unable to push out against.
Tonight I stayed home to watch a movie, to take a break from my life for a while. A scene where a femme fatale shows tenderness and caring to a desperate broken cop started me crying.
I want to be back at the retreat with my primal friends. I want to be back in that atmosphere of feeling, empathy and caring. I don’t want to be here alone, rudderless, drifting. I feel so alone. Have always been alone. Mom and Dad, Mommy and Daddy, can’t you see? Don’t you care? God it was empty.
I’m back at three years old, collapsed and condensed into a tight ball of pain, crying horror. This time I see what I’ve been running from all my life. I’ll never have my Mommy and Daddy. It feels ugly to see but it’s in me, has always been. I am three but this time I see I will be alone in a big frightening world I’m not ready for, that I don’t know how to be all by myself, hurting, crippled… because Mommy and Daddy won’t be there for me.
Larry: I just wish that every pending mommy and daddy would read this comment of yours Larry.
It might not work with many B U T in the desperate hope that some … hopefully many … would just catch on and R E A L I Z E what a young child and baby feels … the unholy horror … the unutterable need to yell it out; and the unfeeling-ability to feel it all; there and then.
I feel for you Larry. I hope expressing it, and writing it all down, as you do, will (however slowly) resolve a lot of it for you.
Welcome back Linda.
thanks for expanding about that dream, it is a powerful one.
and I love the way you can talk and feel about your mother, seeing her damage but also with love and compassion.
Thank you Margaret. The mother-daughter relationship can get complicated, can’t it.
I always found comfort in my cats too; nervousness and tension would melt away when I felt lost and could pet them.
The present cats are a handful and one goes stir-crazy if I don’t let him out several times a day. After 8 pm , though he can’t be coaxed back in, so I try to get them back in before dark.
Enjoy your semi-warm day.
I seem a bit more able to live in the present, enjoy the now, waking up and taking my time to caress a cat on the bed, enjoy how he curls his warm sof tail over my arm, or puts his head in my hand. take my time to be here now and enjoy the simple things of live, instead of fretting about possible futures and whether I do what I ‘should’ do.
now is what there is, the moments of niceness we too often let go by and regret and value only after we lost them.
I am sure I will have to remind myself often to do so, and my cats are a great help to be in the present and to slow down to the moment and cherish it.
I feel how bits of tension slip off my shoulders ..
it is quiet here in summer, and I like it, like the silence , like it that my attention can be caught by a bird’s sound, or the mere silence and the soft background noises of life. a drizzly day here but warmer than yesterday, good, I want my world to be warm, or I prefer it to be. otherwise a blanket can help, specially when two cats share its comfort..
too hot here in the summer to open the windows to hear the birds. listening to storm sounds and watching youtube videos of women brushing other women’s hair. no energy, worked hard yesterday. went to beach but the waves were not fitting to my personality, although they probably soothed my aching back. obsessed with how i told some guys at work that they could have some new pc’s that the boss had been hanging onto forever, and they came saturday and took them all, and also left the big front doors open in my building and went to lunch, leaving thousands of dollars of pc’s easily snatchable by anyone walking by.
and the cat only comes to me when i give it tuna. and if i buy a brush to comb its long hair, it will probably make the cat lick itself and get hairballs. i have not seen whether this cat licks itself or not.
larry, no holding you in mommy’s arms and whispering, that’s ok, you’ll be alright, mommy is here? me neither after age 10 months. didn’t you say that you lived with your aunt and uncle for a little tiny bit of time and they were kinder, though? a tiny scrap that helped you hold on for the rest of your barren life? cry, larry, cry. sorry to hear of your pain, in past and in present.
Otto, I don’t ever remember being tenderly consoled in the manner that you describe. But my aunt, uncle and two cousins at least talked to me and gave me their attention, and sometimes picked me up and held me just because they wanted to. Yes, I’m sure that gave me some grounding. Afterward on my birthday Aunt and Uncle even came to see me at the farm and brought me a present, until I was 12 (which my parents didn’t do for any of us. They did make Xmas special and lavish us all with presents then, which is a group effort on their part now that I think of it and not individual attention. They had too many kids to show any individual attention, plus they were incapable of such intimacy).
Aunt and uncle made me feel special in a way that my parents seemed unable to. Somehow I compartmentalized it and didn’t hold it against my parents (or I needed the fantasy that my life was OK) and I wouldn’t see what I wasn’t getting from them. None of us kids were getting that kind of attention from my parents and I just accepted the reality and pushed down my need.
I’ve been told that, after having lived for a while with aunt and uncle I began to call them Mommy and Daddy like my cousins did, and was told that no, they weren’t my Mommy and Daddy and I couldn’t call them that. So even with them, in a way I wasn’t getting what I needed and somewhere deep inside felt like I didn’t belong to anyone or didn’t feel secure that I belonged anywhere.
It all came crashing down when I entered high school and never felt able to fit in and felt more and more bad about myself, more and more unable to socialize, more and more troubled, anxious, shut down and withdrawn, and eventually felt unable to do life, until I read the Primal Scream and finally it all started to make sense and I slowly dug out of the hole.
Yes crying is the only way through. Sometimes retirement leaves me no escape. Sometimes in retirement I feel an apathy that frightens me, from which there is no diversion or escape except to break down into crying my emptiness and need. I need them. I need them to come back to life so that we can fix the mistake, correct the oversight. I don’t feel that they were intentionally mean to me. I feel that they wanted to do their best for me. It is hard to see that anything was wrong. I am slow to accept how they were totally unable to see and meet my emotional needs. My Mom was easily wounded, easily gave in to other people. In her new married life she was overworked on the farm. I was her firstborn, a normally exhausting new experience to new parents. My being born with asthma was a severe challenge to their parenting ability, while they likely were already overtaxed by life. Their poor handling of my condition (leaving me in hospital for a week, leaving me with my aunt and uncle) severely frayed the bond that should have grown between baby and parents, which could have been somewhat repaired had they been sensitive to my emotional needs. Their childhoods being bereft of love, their directing of all of their physical and emotional energy toward the farm, and their having 6 kids meant no time, energy, awareness for or attention to my emotional needs.
When I cry now and sink down to then, it is frightening and hard to go there but ultimately resolving to open to, acknowledge and feel the need that will never be met for parental love.
I had the cry yesterday. It is hard to go there. I hadn’t intended to write about it, but wanted to respond to you Otto. I’m discovering, again, how useful it is to write about it here. Writing helps to consolidate the reality. Thanks Otto.
margaret, that is tragic about your dog in childhood. pet dogs and cats have no idea about the world, although any life form can come to an end in a second. i did not read the whole firecat story. it made me sad 2 sentences in.
hmmm. primal support groups, a lot of them. is it this one? “Description: Elle Russ chats with Loretta Breuning, PhD, founder of the Inner Mammal Institute, which helps people manage the brain chemicals we’ve inherited.” i don’t think my brain chemicals are managing well these days. ha.
sylvia, i did not have a mother-daughter relationship. or maybe i did. my grandmother certainly treated me like a daughter. she had a lot of rage. at some point my brother and i were giving her the silent treatment, and that must have hurt her, but she showed that only in rage. i am not sure why we were giving her the silent treatment, she certainly messed with me and my brother for years. she obviously did not understand teenage boys (or girls either, according to my aunt), and the silent treatment was the only way i could stand up to her. i do regret it the silent treatment towards her, not sure if it was conscious or not.. she saved our physical lives, too bad not our emotional lives.
hssg, according to a noted comedian, god will give you 72 virginians. it was a mistranslation by a drunken wandering desert-dweller. who had foreknowlege that one day there would be a virginia usa. and hopefully they don’t all smell of tobacky.
I will extend to you the exact same offer I gave Linda: I would be happy to respond to your post above, but only away from the blog. No hard feelings or pressure if you decline email exchanges.
Hey there GURU, I haven’t visited the blog since the 15th so I didn’t see your first response..How do we exchange emails? ? How about I give you mine….two of the people on here already have mine. firstname.lastname@example.org ….. But be forewarned…I am not a good verbal communicator such as you and Larry and many of the others here are….I process information ( think ) in terms of spacial relationships, which I find extremely arduous to transpose into words. Nor do I log onto the blog or my email in a consistent manor . But i look forward to the possibility of texting with you directly. Linda
Hi Linda: I will send a mail to that address shortly to make sure everything is working properly.
phil, i am finally getting down to listening to a little music this week, although having worked 6 days this week, i don’t really feel much emotion. i like the line, you know it’s going to be alright, on revolution 1 on the white album. comforting.
i dont know if i really understood what any of these lyrics meant when i first heard these songs. those guys were always 10 years older than me and knew so much more.
whoops, music’s magic spell DID get to me. can sob but not wail loud at home because of neighbors. wife at store and will come crashing in momentarily anyway.
actually it is not going to be alright. wife has medical problems, blacking out, bad teeth. etc. nothing worrying at all.
just getting on board…
I think it is best to brush a long haired cat. all those hairs in the brush are hairs they won’t swallow, and the hair won’t get stuck together in filthy dreadlocks etc. under their armpits, what can happen when you don’t brush. and if you buy a good brush and do it nicely, which I am sure you would anyway, it is a great treat.
if you don’t overdo the brushing I think it will be more positive than not.
good luck with this tuna loving cat.
those cans of tuna can be very salty so maybe watch out for that..
you might have to look in to the consequences of the Brexit as well. a lot of British People living in Belgium have requested the Belgian citizenship, in order to be sure .
or marriage, or maybe it would be ok for you as you are past the working age, but I would check it out to be sure .
Margaret: There are so many thing to be taken into consideration that it boggles the mind and all I/we are able to do, as of this moment is, to take it one step at a time.
Even getting one’s own money into another currency, requires a leg and an arm. THEN to add to it all I have to get registered there, BUT before I can do that, I have to have an address there. THEN before I can do that I have to be registered to own anything … even if the other part ownership is is for a national. (Continued)
When I was a a kid there was a ditty that went “There’s a hole in my bucket dear Lisa, dear Lisa … then mend it dear **** ……………” BUT in order to mend it, there was the need for water BUT in order to get water there was the need for a bucket … but the bucket needed mending ………. !!!!!
There’s method in my madness for wanting to “abolish money”. Everything goes round and round in a never ending circle. We neurotic humans seem reluctant to change ANYTHING fundamentally … we keep hoping that tweaking the edges will solve it. Will it ???????????
Erron, I’m glad your cleared up that mystery about Karen. I was quite confused reading that, thinking Karen had missed a whole lot as she was never here. Do you find that program easier than typing?
Yes Phil, much easier although with annoying quirks. a bit of a necessity for me since I write a lot each day, and have rheumatoid arthritis.
I’m still taking advantage of being alone here, but that will change at the end of the week,
when I leave for Spain to join my wife who is already there.
I got to more feelings, this time not needing or wanting the help of music. More about my
mother, sorry to be repetitive. Coming out of the feelings I had a while ago this evening is a deeper understanding that at some point she just lost whatever inclination or feeling she might have had in being a mother to me. She basically totally abandoned that role and me. From what I could tell,
she had no interest or feeling for me whatsoever, in a lot of memories which stand out. There was abusiveness and neglect, and no feeling of belonging, no recognition that I was her child. A huge rejection is what it was.
I have been moving towards this very painful realization as I make progress. I have kind of known this right along but am now getting a true understanding at the feeling level, where it needs to happen.
It’s awesome to watch you opening more and more to your life Phil. I wish you a nice time in Spain. Sounds like a great place to visit.
Larry, thanks, I expect to have a good time in Spain. I feel very accepted by my wife’s family. We will always have a place to stay there. I mostly feel closer to them than my own extended family
glad to hear it phil. glad, i mean, that you are getting closer to feeling these feelings in more intensity. not glad that this horrific pain happened to you. i am nowhere near feeling my grandma’s neglect of me. i feel bad that it is her 117th birthday and i should have at least bought a cupcake and candle for her, even though i have never done so. my wife is being a handful with all her mysterious expensive diseases. i did have some kind of bond with my grandmother, she taught me how to make shit on a shingle and other tasty dishes. she told me to put a ham in the oven for dinner once, so it would be ready to eat when she got home after a long bus ride from downtown l.a., after a long hard day of bookkeeping at her brother’s diamond business, where she hated her brother’s son. oh she forgot to tell me to take the ham out of the can, so the ham pieces ended up on the kitchen ceiling when the can exploded. yes, she neglected me a little. cut some corners. happy birthday, gramma, your life was hard, and then harder raising 2 boys at age 52. if you had had the energy to break out of your horrible pain, you could have taught me and my brother to treat you better, or you could have at least told us how you felt, but i guess you told god how you felt, or maybe you told nobody how you felt. i am sorry your life was so tough, and i was unable to do much for you at all when i was an adult.
I was touched by what you wrote to your grandmother.
those are painful insights.
I hope she was able to treat you better when you were still a little baby, it seems so hard to tell how much her disease was part of it all
it does seem a breakthrough you have gained so much access to these feelings.
wish you a very nice holiday and a pleasant flight.
I just now watched the trailer for the movie Megan Leavey and started to cry. The movie is about a soldier and her partner, a bomb sniffing German Shepard dog. The trailer reminded me of our German Shepard on the farm while I was growing up, who was part of my life through high school, university, and early adulthood, who we named Lady. The powerful thing about Lady is that she accepted me unconditionally. When I felt alienated from everyone else, most of the time, she was always eager and happy to see me, always wanting to be with me. She’d go jogging with me. When I had to do field chores such as swathing or ploughing, she’d follow me around and around the field, chasing mice or rabbits, helping me not feel all alone. Or when I had a temporary machinery breakdown and had to make minor repairs, she’d be sitting nearby keeping me company. She helped me hang on to some sanity through those years. When I sink into and cry the feeling of the love and attention I got from her, through her I awaken to and sink into the recognition and cry the painful truth of what I needed from my family but couldn’t get.
Not until I read the primal scream and did some self-primalling, gained some insight and began to turn my life around, did things slowly and eventually begin to improve for me. I still lived with my parents, along with my youngest brother. By then my parents were retired and were somewhat happier people. My youngest brother and I had time for each other, unlike earlier when the whole family was at home and working on the farm and had no time for each other individually. He actually sought my company, as did I his. We had fun together. We played catch with a baseball, and football. It was the first time anyone did that with me. We went to movies together, played racquetball together, ate at Wendy’s together. It was a lot of fun. He didn’t seem to see or care what a loser I was. I’m glad to have those memories. For the first time we felt like a family. He said as much. For the first time I wasn’t all alone, felt accepted.
To this day he is the sibling I feel closest to. I feel that him being in my life at that time was a major factor in helping me pull my life together, helping me to find enough confidence in myself to take up an important job 1000 miles away from home, a major step on my life path and towards primal therapy.
Lady, then especially my youngest brother, some helpful people and friends along the way, and finally primal therapy and then getting married, helped me to have some sense of belonging that I needed to help keep me going. Now I’m more deeply understanding the disabling, life sapping emptiness that I grew up with, and that blights my life and makes it difficult even today.
I’m going to try to see that movie.
It’s amazing the role that animals can play in our lives. What you wrote here fills in some interesting details about your story. It’s lucky you had your youngest brother to bond with.
This morning the radio host was in conversation with a father who was talking about his participation in a workshop being held called “I did my daughter’s hair”. The image of a father doing his little daughter’s hair started me crying. I can imagine how much the bond with her father would mean to a little girl to have him doing her hair. My sisters received no such attention from Dad. They got little attention from him. They would have so loved to be held and hugged by him now and then. We all would’ve. It’s easier for me grasp their neglect and cry for them than for myself right now.
Last night I had a couple of vivid dreams. As a child and adult, I have seldom remembered my dreams, but over the course of therapy, I now remember them somewhat more often.
I dreamed I screwed up something financial at my old job (from 12 yrs. ago), and owed them money (like $600+). I woke at 3 am from this, feeling bad, because of several incidents over the years, where I lost significant money, from chronic, careless, not taking care of my business properly. I knew a feeling was right there, but at first “tried” to feel it, which didn’t feel right, but then as I let it go, it just happened naturally at lower intensity, and I cried and cried about it, and did feel better afterwards, accepting that these things did happen, which I have been for long trying to hide from myself by sort of ignoring how bad I feel about them.
Later I dreamed something quite different — that my mother was still alive (she died at 94 yrs.), and we were being forced to move from a house to an apartment, and I suddenly found out that our household would have an orphaned baby, and 7 animals: 2 lion cubs, 3 cheetah cubs, and 2 hamsters. The cubs were all chaotically chasing each other, the hamsters were just staying alive, and I was sputtering, trying to “tell someone” that this wasn’t going to work at all, because my mom was 92, and could not take care of a baby and all those animals all day, while I was gone at work! I woke up from it at that point, it was so bizarre, and sometime after, I had to laugh about all the animals. The only thing it later reminded me of, was how as a child, I had to take care of my brothers and later, the kids that my mom took in for her childcare business. And I have always felt like I am always trying to do too much at once, or keep control of too many things simultaneously. Definitely that’s an old feeling.
Vicki: Great feeling. I hope it brings some good things for you
Take great care. Jack.
What dreams those are Vicki!
Glad you could process so much. Imagine that feeling of your mom not able to care for the baby and animals is something you knew so well – when she should have been caring
and you as a child knew not only was she incapable but she was causing harm.
Vicki, I can definitely see the image of all those animals out of control and being too much. Sounds very overwhelming and quite symbolic of what you dealt with. Funny how our minds make up little new strange stories of our past. Good that you could cry about the old financial problems and face them.
I didn’t know your mom had a child care business!
when was that?
how was that?
That’s great how that feeling came out starting with a dream.
I hope it gave good relief.
dead after working 6 days. listening to abby road and watching cat lick dog videos. no feelings. just an image of my best friend’s face, when this music came out. he was later murdered.
what goes on in your heart beatles. what took me so long to get back to this song? no one reminded me. it was useful a few weeks ago. my friend used this as a sound track to his super 8 movie he made of a novel. he and his crew drove out to the country, found an old man in a small grocery store and caught some great clips of this old guy. i felt left out and jealous because i was working and didn’t go with him. maybe he did not even invite me to go. the popular football player who could get any girl. my attempts at making films were so feeble compared to his. jealous.
he was a very artistic guy. painting pictures. i don’t even know how a low life like me even got to be around him he was the son of a lawyer. i am not talking about my friend who was murdered, although maybe that friend was my avenue to this friend. pot smokers, us. i was the one who got my murdered friend high for the first time. i regret it although we did have some fun for a few years. i feel so bad i cant feel anything.
Otto: I shouild have responded to this one, saying:- ” i feel so bad i cant feel anything”.
i can’t believe the electric guitar artistry on this song. a ringo song, sounds like. i feel so fucking bad, i never got over those high school years. and of course, all that went before, and what came after.
me and my friend took acid one day. he was the one who got me high on that. strange. we ended up walking in the cool summer night to the son of the lawyer’s house, down by the beach in long beach. colors and stuff. i already said the other stuff some other post. i feel bad or feel nothing.
so much constant pain, every day in those years. grandma gave little, she was tired of working maybe. so was drinking also. downhill exit.
no cure from that shit.
psychotic level pain. how did i hold that in so many many years.
i see the inside of our house. so empty. my grandma’s face. i cant seem to step out of that nightmare. so alone and no guidance at all. just friends. guess they helped me survive.
Boy, that tough to see, Otto. Tough to live with. Can’t be changed. I hope you can cry it out eventually.
Otto: You said you can’t feel anymore. If you were suggesting that you are not feeling anything … that’s not the way it comes across to me. It’s very very sad Otto.
Better to feel this unutterable misery than ignore and pretend it never happened … IMO.
A song I heard today and thought of you Otto!
I love that song, Leslie! Found the lyrics, as I wasn’t sure what they were:
I can’t hide this anymore
I give up, you win the war
All my memories a blur
But I remember what we were
And I can’t hide this anymore
Blue was the colour of your dress the night we met
I held your hand and walked you down the road
Full moon shining up above I heard myself talking
but I was falling and falling and falling
I can’t hide this anymore
I give up, you win the war
All the cruel things we said
Well they’re stuck inside my head
And I can’t hide this anymore
And the rest at: https://www.flashlyrics.com/lyrics/blue-rodeo/i-cant-hide-this-anymore-58
i would like to say something about what my wife did/does that irritates the shit out of me, but i wont say it, because i will sound like my crabby critical grandma. ok.
thanks for thinking of me leslie. why did this song make you think of me? i certainly lost a bunch of wars, and i have certainly given up and gotten bad treaties with Life. anyway…vicki, why do you like that song?
Otto, I thought the lyrics were great and so simple — “I can’t hide this anymore”! Something painful, that has to come out!
Just did Otto – I guess from how you describe your relationship with your wife…
I see it as positive that you are honest about it – as can imagine there are some
complications in doing so.
i hope we all know that my wife and I are both incredibly insane. some of that insanity is subtle, some not so subtle. i keep trying to hide it, but mostly it just oozes out of me.
larry, yes tough to see. hope to keep those golden memories alive until i can stop working on saturdays and go back to pt. thanks
jack you are terribly right in what you say. but if there was a bottle of whiskey on my desk, i would have polished it off by now (if i was still 30 years old). now, cat and horse and dog and monkey videos on youtube will suffice. and then tomorrow, work will be my foreign legion amnesia ambrosia.
Otto: Can’t say I blame you, but just as I know, you also know; that’s only putting it off for a day at best, and often less than that.
It’s one of the “downsides” of this therapy. I struggled like crazy for 30 years before I could get out of my biggest ‘act-out’. maybe combined with age, also contributed.
I wish you the very best Otto, and I know, and I feel many others know, you are making a lot of progress by just writing it all to the blog. You seem to me to very undefended. That’s great, as I see it.
One of the other things as I encounter them is:- to realize that the way I word things in the present ARE in-fact, the old feeling … also.
this video of a truly positive person makes me sad. her pit bull and chickens are amazing. peace and happiness beyond belief. August 20th – Restoration of Independence Day in Estonia. HelensPets.com August 20th – Restoration of Independence Day in Estonia. HelensPets.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFR1MWhPEMI
although i was a bit scared to do so, old memories, no filling up the emptiness by studying or reading, I did pull the dusty covers of my record collection. put on the record still on the player, while ironing, Black Sabbath, to start.
then fingered a bit through the records I long ago labelled with braille.
starting early in the alphabet, put on Brainbox, a good old Dutch group which led me to dance in my living room, and to put the volume up, with the odd tear coming up.
to my surprise one of the cats came wandering in, seemingly not being scared off by the loud music coming out from the usually silent boxes
now will put some good old Pink Floyd on, ha, boy, will do this more often, have more than 100 records here, some of them really rare jewels..
Love your music collection, Margaret.
Margaret, I also like your music collection – it’s good to re-hear it…glad you’ve been enjoying it all.
I am really very nicely surprised my cats do not mind, and one even seems to like listening to the music.
he installed himself comfortably on the couch, listening clearly.
it might also be the many crackling sounds on some of the oldest records that he likes, smiley!
they both are here, loud music on, and the othe one is also more intrigued than anything.
that is nice to find out, I would assume this volume might have turned them off, but no way, my dear freaky cats, love them!
maybe I should buy them some catnip to get the full experience, haha, just kidding, but seriously, it is nice they like it, and also the dusty feather I found behind one of the wooden boxes with records..
ha, just danced around with one cat on my shoulder on the music of Jethro Tull, ‘singing all day, singing ’bout nothing’, and other cat sat on carpet on best spot in middle of loudspeakers. two fine cats with good taste, or well, we three fine cats!
love Jethro Tull, all time quality!
and Yes, and Alexis Korner, and some Alice Cooper, Soft Machine, and so much much more, great reconnecting!!!
thanks bloggers, you inspired me to take the step, and it lifted me out of a growing feeling of depression. and the cats have their new mindopening experience.
so much beauty in that music mixed in with so many many memories and feelings!
How did we bloggers inspire you to take the step Margaret?
I’m in Spain, the trip was exhausting. We were over an hour in the plane on the runway in NY not going anywhere and they didn’t make any announcement. But we made it. I didn’t peak right with my Spanish, as I stopped studying 2 or 3 months ago, but I should get quickly up to speed. Also I should go against my nature and try to speak more….but I’m on vacation, so it’s the same problem I encounter, I just don’t feel like doing that. It’s not what I do. I’ll probably never get to be a good Spanish speaker for that reason. I just don’t have things pressing that I want or have to say to people. I can say all the essential things but that’s not good enough.
It’s great reuniting with my wife and seeing everyone, and my sons came with me. There are loads of people around at all times, which is a lot different from my regular life, and it’s nice.
Thanks for sharing. Sounds exciting. For some reason I thought you were already there for several days already.
Happy holiday in Spain Phil!
just by talking about music you like..
I often thought about that splendid music I have here and hardly ever put on, except years ago when I felt in love and I could lay on the couch and daydream for hours while listening to music. or cry when the love affair got sour…
but now it was just enjoyable, I think I did fear it would just feel empty and sad, it did feel a little sad sometimes that the past is past so to say, but there was more joy than anything else.
I did turn the volume up so I hope my neighbours like the alternative underground seventies stuff..
was a surprise my cats seemed to do so.
I remember I once had a cat who every time, only when the first album of Soft Machine was playing, started to run up and down the stairs like crazy. she didn’t seem scared but more excited than anything else..
some of my records have been played so often they sound as if an open fire is crackling away in the background. or eggs are frying and sputtering , like they do on an album of Pink Floyd, then their eggs sputter with an extra sputtering and crakling effect of the used record..
somehow it feels some of the music is part of me, of my history and identity.
some of the early Genesis is nice as well, and well, I will have to go through the albums as I have forgotten what treasures I have in those boxes.
The last time I wrote about myself here was July 19. That evening after my phone session I had a pretty harrowing, hurting cry, seeing my life from childhood to present, the emptiness that pulsed through and blighted it. It was kind of new and scary to accept that level of truth, but a relief to and freeing.
The few days since then, the way things worked out I spent some time with a friend and have had casual conversations with acquaintances but have been alone a lot. I’m pleased to find that the aloneness doesn’t bother me as much. I’m pleasantly discovering I’m capable of enjoying my own company and filling my time meaningfully. Instead of feeling like a loser, afraid and feeling a need to hide and be safe yet desperate to be with someone and not alone, I feel more confident in myself, less overwhelmed at being alone, more aware and open to people around me and their lives, more open to meeting and getting to know people instead of being defended against them.
It’s a nice, welcome development.
Larry I’m glad you got good relief ; I hope it will be long lasting
Larry: Not sure if I have it right; but you seem to have gotten a lot out of the retreat … and maybe other things as well.
I wish you all the very best. Jack
Glad you are less overwhelmed at being alone, Larry..and feeling less fearful of people.. you’ll always have that now, even if it disappears now and then… resonates with me.
Margaret, My sons both speak about like me or a lttle better, Carl has an accent as if he lived here in town, because he has friends he spends many hours with. Daniel has good grammar and vocabulary from studying in school.
I’m seeing how my problem is being vulnerable and asking for help (language help) that holds me back. I hate making mistakes and having to be corrected. It’s a problem with how I relate to people, because of how I was traumatized, and not so much a problem with languages.
Phil, my Spanish speaking vocabulary is not good at all. My language accents are always pretty good, so speakers tend to speak faster or more complexly, assuming I will understand more than I do. But I practice a little every morning with the maintenance guys that come to our office to collect trash. I just get an occasional new or re-remembered word, and practice at recalling more quickly. The guys always keep it up, and I enjoy it, as I know they like me because of it. I do similarly with my neighbors at home, as I want to be able to communicate with them, as best we can.
Because I had a ‘mild’ migraine last week (and I rarely get them now), it got me reflecting on the reasons why I got them. Actually, that’s what I’ve always done- try and analyse myself so that I can avoid pain, mental/physical.
From age 48 to 55 was my menopause, and that’s when they started up and finished, and were the worst, and debilitating. I was working for the British NHS, and at someone else’s pace (whereas before I was self employed -my pace) and frequently migraines got triggered.
I was about 53 when I met X, and I often got triggered when he wanted me to do stuff at his pace -e.g. join him on drives to Europe (for his business meetings) totally against my grain!
So for me, I guess it was pressure that I complied with..
I’ll never know, really, if they ceased because I learned to manage my life with (and without him).
Now I sometimes get a mild one, and it is pressure I impose on myself.
But really, I now see, it’s always been because of unexpressed feelings building up, then-tension-muscular/skeletal tension-symptom manifestation.
Since the prevailing topic on the blog is learning Spanish, I’ve sometimes wondered if the Spanish language structure can be considered the most intensely emotional of all the Romance language group (French, Italian, etc.). The reason I wonder whether Spanish is the most intensely emotional of the group stems from all the drug cartel beheadings I read about in Mexico. Here in the United States a decapitation is almost unheard of, yet in Mexico it’s far more commonplace. LINK –>> http://www.borderlandbeat.com/ (beware the extremely graphic photos if you research some of the articles)
Why is there such savagery south of the border? Is it possible the intensely emotional structure of the Spanish Romance language itself has altered the adult brain structure of criminals towards susceptibility to commit frighteningly heinous acts when a drug deal goes bad much like an emotionally unstable lover being betrayed?
English and German, for instance, are much more succinct and precise languages more suited for engineers compared to the perhaps emotionally-inclined Spanish.
I am not going to look at your link, but wonder why you’d be curious about the death aspect of the subject of Spanish language?
Jo: Most of the articles in that link are “OK” and the violence is not gratuitous for its own sake. The site does a good job warning people when it might become graphic.
As for the death aspect of the Spanish language, I can deeply relate to how cheap life can be in Mexico since my own mother’s violent ending was rendered completely meaningless to the news media & public consciousness here in the US in spite of her remarkable professional accomplishments.
The idea of long-term use of the language itself potentially creating extreme violence among Spanish-speaking criminals is conjecture on my part, admittedly. Seemed like an interesting possibility, though.
Unimaginable loss for you, Guru…personally how you didn’t get the unique motherly care, closeness..and then the knowledge that you live with of your mom’s violent ending
Ooh, that’s nice of you to say, Jo. Your support doesn’t go unappreciated by me, but the main gist of my message was simply explaining why I was looking at the possible violence aspect of the Spanish language.
I should note that in Spain the dialect used is Castilian(?) Spanish, but there’s a significantly different dialect used in Mexico, the name of which escapes me at the moment. Not sure if the different dialects matter, though. I also can’t explain why Brazil is much more violent than Portugal, even though both countries speak Portugese (another Romance language).
Portugal has legalized drugs and a much lower gini coefficient (lower wealth inequality) than Brazil, so that could be important, too.
Oops, misspelled “Portuguese”. Easy to miss that extra “u”.
Guru,sounds like a feeling resonating for you from Mexico’s drug-culture cheap life view and the way your mom was remembered without any due compassion by the news media.
Perhaps the language aspect is a way of explaining or trying to make sense of an illogical and senseless devastating event.
Also, Guru, I’ve heard much about the stereo-type earthiness of the Latino culture. I recall ex Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger refer to someone as a ‘hot-blooded Latina’ because she showed emotion. Maybe their culture is less repressed, though Mexican women might disagree with that from how some husbands treat their wives.
At any rate, sounds like there is something that touched you about the connection between the cartel and your own loss.
Guru, Mexico is an underdeveloped right next to the U.S. with it’s huge demand for drugs. There are very large amounts of money to be made, it’s no wonder about the violence. The U.S, by the way, is a very violent society with a high murder rate using guns, not in line with other English speaking countries. Spain is not especially violent. I just wanted to refute your connection of language with violence. Phil
Phil: OK, first of all it’s true there is a disconnect between Spain & Portugal’s murder rate and the rates of Central and South American Spanish/Portuguese speaking countries. But, why the savagery in methods compared to the US? Some of those Borderland Beat articles talk about cartels training hit men to eat human flesh to develop a proper bloodlust for their job, not to mention the commonplace beheadings.
Do we ever see this sort of savagery here in the US? Yes, the US is violent, but it’s mostly standard guns and shooting. Spanish is probably a language more beautiful and expressive than English when times are good, but what happens when those emotions turn wrong? This is why I wondered whether Romance languages play a role in adult brain function more towards a savage outcome when things turn bad.
By the way, it’s worth noting that the murder rate in most Central and South American countries are higher than in the US, but my main point was the savage methods often used.
Guru, I would say it’s the existence of those cartels together with the huge demand for elicit drugs which causes the savagery. The governments of some those countries don’t have sufficient rule of law and control of there own territories. The same could happen here with weak law enforcement, weak institutions and traditions.
Phil: I want you to know I do have specific responses addressing some of the points you made, but it would be best for me to discontinue the topic at this point. Otherwise, we could go back and forth all day and dominate the blog with a topic irrelevant to most people here. I simply mentioned my Romance language hypothesis (ie. wider range of emotions both joyous and dangerous within certain dialects) because it looked like an interesting possibility, that’s all.
Guru, The topic probably contains some feeling for you so maybe not irrelevant at all. In the meantime I’ll continue trying to communicate in Spanish as best I can.
maybe the aztecs with their human sacrifces has influenced the mexican psyche. maybe the moors need to conquer spain influenced the spaniard soul, at least in the south of spain. no time to conjecture, got to watch rachel madow and see what violent sleezey thing the man in charge is telling our children today. had a short yelling match with my wife when she needed just ONE MORE THING. she had a brain mri today and i can give her little solace. all is ok now. doing the best we can. no sweat. 6 day workweek. whoopee
Sylvia, Phil, and Otto: Thanks for your additional responses; I read everything. I’m not trying to discourage people from learning Spanish, by the way. The Aztec connection Otto mentioned and Mexico prizing a culture of male machismo are other possible catalysts for the disturbing behaviors we discussed yesterday. It was a very interesting discussion & thanks to all three of you for engaging with me on it.
HSSGuru, you are welcome, anytime.
here is a video of a baby, just in case anybody wants to remember their youngest years. i feel that mom might be pushing baby too hard to crawl, but what do i know, i am in the less-than-stellar parenting group. #PitBull DOG TEACHES BABY TO CRAWL | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMnEaqiHkzY good night.
Hi Everyone: I had a rough night last night. For several days I have been sleeping well and not having those “mini-convulsions” until last night when they came on with vengeance. This time they felt more disturbing … like for the life of me I couldn’t get comfortable, whatever I did or the position I took in bed.
They went on for over an hour but I would snatch a nap every now and again only to be awakened by more discomfort.
I strongly feel they are ‘womb feelings’, since there are no sounds, just movement trying to find a comfortable position. One vague insight, is that this was perhaps the very beginning of being gay. I’ve said before and now it feels even more strongly The womb was not a pleasant place for me to be in for a fair amount of my gestation … then the final moment when for 9 hours (according to my mother; claiming the pain was relentless and devastating for her). What was going on for me??????
Slowly it might all be coming together. (continued)
Our move to Europe is getting there but, there’s quite a bit to do, by way of arranging my residency, healthcare, my meds and other things we might have to contemplate. All the packing and crating is now done, and on the way. Jim being Dutch has the language, but for me it’s going to be a little strange. I know many speak English, but It’s not the same when every one is speaking to each other in a tongue that is alien to me,
We both of us, have some trepidation about it, but have fully decided to take the risk and then operate for there. My tendency, to have it all prepared before hand, is not a good idea in this situation.
For the moment that is what is happening to/for me. Jack
Such a big change for you Jack, and no turning back I expect.
Larry: Correct. I sort of knew form the beginning that once I stepped in to the “feeling zone” … there’s no turning back …. least-ways for me.
todo el mundo tiene que aprender, me gusta lo que se dice en Espanã, ‘hablando se entiende la gente’.
put Jethro Tull on again.
one of the cats came in to sit and listen!
I am becoming more aware of how magic it felt. those longhaired guys, talented like Ian Anderson specially, felt like a newfound and benevolent family, specially the male ones, would always look at me with some kind of welcome in their eyes, as opposed to my dad’s distance.
I preferred the really long haired curly ones, guess my brother set the prototype when I must have been 12 or 13, he kept growing longer and longer hair, despite my dad’s strong opposition, until he had this gorgeous lush black curly hair far down over his back, standing wide out over his shoulders.
when I occasionally could catch a ride behind him on his motorbike, it would stand out in the wind like a proud wild flag of freedom and possibilities.
the music opened up a new world of ‘my kind of people’.
looking at some news items about Tomorrow Land here in Belgium, attracting tens of thousands of young people from all the continents, with what sounds to me like boring dance rythms, I wonder if they feel something similar, hard to imagine.
of course over the years some of the magic wore off, but still, I miss it, miss those long haired freaky guys and the exciting feeling they represented.
guess part of it is feeling accepted, not criticized, feeling part of it..
guess they stood for my hope to find love and affection..
mostly unaware I did search desperately, mostly on the wrong places and in the wrong way.
stilll, those were exciting times and I am glad for all the experiences, even while so often I was so naive and stupid, smiley, but also curious and adventurous.
not that I would advise anyone to take it, on the contrary, but acid certainly was a special experience for me, mostly good, it really made me see so clearly, literally, no hallucinations, except just occasionally a wall throbbing along on the rythm of the music, but nothing scary.
but all those details of nature, all those human faces and eyes which were so easy to read. I am lucky I always felt confident. probably because of being in what felt like safe company, but also on my own, for some reason it made me feel kind of grounded.
once at the end of a trip I did have some primal insight, said to my boyfriend, whom I suddenly realised I was trying to please , ‘I live only for my father, all i do is for him, I am really dead actually’, and I staggered out to the terrrace and felt about to faint, but his arms caught me and he carried me to bed to sleep and relax.
it would be interesting still to really find out what happens neurologically in the brain, it can be such an ‘opener’, but probably really nightmarish if one goes into a bad feeling/trip without connecting it.
have seen it happen to others.
how was it for you, Otto?
smoking pot turned out to be much more disturbing really, made me feel socially disfunctionable and weird, to the point where I finally gathered the courage to tell everyone I would not join the smoking anymore, which then felt like a huge relief and very liberating.
smoking pot did make me feel kind of slightly psychotic, acid had the opposite effect and made me feel crystal clear.
thanks. you made me reflect on which records I specially cherish.
there is Bo Hansson with his ‘Lord of the rings’ , all instrumental and a perfect kind of soundtrack for the mysterious journey Tolkien described.
then there is Camel’s Flight of the snow goose, very beautiful as well
the first album of the Soft Machine, very underground but we played it so often even my mother loves it.
Can with Tago mago, and its throbbing hypnotic sound
all the early Yes albums, early Jethro Tulls, some king Crimsons, inagadda davida from…, escapes me for the moment, arch!
yes, Iron Butterfly, hurray.
Kevin Ayers, not all of it but what is beautiful is very beautiful.
I don’t even mention John Lennon as he is my classic hero.
and so many others I need to rediscover.
Janis Joplin, Carole King, but I only have her on cd, like Chet Baker, love him too.
what are your prefers?
that is nice to hear, I tend to feel like I am the only one remaining sometimes who likes that kind of music still..
how is your life nowadays, are you back already? I so often have a post retreat dip upon returning..
do you keep the meaningful stuff for your private mail conversations and the rest for this blog?
first of all, they are Roman languages, not romance.
something in your comments irritates me, not sure what I pick up on, is it disdain for the people on the blog or the taking of attention in an indirect way?
I find it very hard to believe you can be serious with this line of thought, even as a passing idea.
if you talk about Roman languages you should definitely include French and Italian.
wel, I did live in Spain for about 8 years, and not once I have witnessed any remote form of violence there, not even pushing and pulling.
the only violence most weekends was from the French coming across the border to party, and still they had to fight among themselves as the spanish people would not go along with the craziness.
but well, you throw out some crazy idea and then tell people who talk with you you don’t want to go into it anymore, so all of this is only for my own sake.
wish you would stop playing these what feels like indirect games, and just be straight about what goes on for you.
I guess it reminds me of my mom taking something from me in earlier years, by saying whatever came to her mind only for attention. she seems to be more in the present nowadays, which is nice, we had a very nice visit to her this afternoon, she was playing a game with the other people there and one of the caretakers, throwing a soft ball around, and she was very good at it, and helped and advised the people in poorer physical shape, it was nice to watch her participate we well.
I am so glad she is so well taken care of, with a lot of warmth and kindness, she feels obviously safe and happy there.
I am feeling extra anxious this morning, probably triggered by a lunch appointment today I don’t feel entirely relaxed about, with my former tango teacher. it will probably be fine, just catching up, but well, it does make me feel stressed .
trying to find the focus of my fears, and also trying to calm myself down, at some point I caressed a passing by cat, and told myself at least they will always be here most probably for many more years.
that struck me, as it was a kind of relaxing thought, and I realized how part of my fear is to all of a sudden lose everything, and to end up lost , on my own, exposed and extremely unsafe and unhappy.
it seems very likely that has to do with having been put in some kind of institution for several weeks at the age of two, mom in the hospital, and me being torn away from everything familiar, surroundings and family.
dad came by every day they told me later on, but I threw a tantrum every time he left,so he ended up handing me a bag of cookies and then disappearing while my attention was taken….
at the age of two on my own in the middle of strangers, in a strange surrounding, must have been so scary and traumatizing.
I do not remember anything, only the leftover white noise of the ever present fear my world might fall apart soon, at any given moment, and disaster might strike.
it is very hard to keep functioning despite the alarm bells that urge me to crawl back under the covers and hide in the safest place I know, my bed..
not that safe as nigtmares lurk and I hate lying awake at night, which luckily does not happen very often lately.
off to shower and get ready, picking out cloths also a hard task, they form part of my safety armour, have to protect myself against cold, heat, discomfort, and feel reasonably presentable as well….
also some fears focusing there, specially about the threat of feeling cold..
well, must keep telling myself things are almost never as bad as i imagine they will be…
I relate to being always in a state of anxiety and wanting to be safe at home, but then at home eventually feels barren.
Sorry I got very behind on messages some of your’s are out of context. It sounds like good insights you had today. I’m having fun here and feel like I’m doing better with Spanish, ahead of where I’m at other years. No feelings coming up which is notable, I guess because of being around so many people, including my own family, who I have no problems communicating with.
I have a big response for Margaret, but for some reason I am having extreme difficulties uploading large chunks of text.
FUCK! This is not fair. I have a page or two to respond to Margaret and simply cannot upload it.
Every time I write something longer than two sentences, it just disappears into the ether.
Guru: I too have had the same problem … for what it’s worth I found one work around and one way to avoid the problem.
I write my replies in ‘word pad’ then copy and paste on the blog … only to find that I have some typos and spelling mistakes. If I correct those mistakes then post it; first by logging in then posting what shows of the screen what I am about to post. Seemingly it was posted, but then when I go to look for it … it is nowhere to be found. I then post it again only to be informed that it is a duplicate copy and therefore doesn’t post the supposed duplicate. (continued)
My solution for this is to divide my response in ‘word pad’ into two or more parts and post each part separately. then add to the first one “(continued)”. That, more often than not, works … but is a bit of a bore.
The other suggestion is to write in ‘word pad’ copy and paste it into the blog … do all my corrections then copy and past all that back to ‘word pad’. I now go back to the blog and delete my reply, to make absolutely sure; I then search the blog to see that I did indeed delete the reply then I paste the corrected version back on the blog. So far both these solutions have worked for me … but a “fuckin bore’ to say the least.
See how it works out for you. Jack
Jack: I first brought up the idea of copy/pasting from word pad sometime around August/September 2016 (almost a year ago) when I was speaking with Daniel, yet three attempts today all failed. I wish I could find the exact post where I started mentioning the idea. I know it was sometime around the posting where I promised Daniel a lengthy post on why Jew bigotry might take place and never pushed it through. I later condensed it all into simply saying it stems from people feeling financially cheated in general.
I never received 72 virgins for that idea, either.
Yes, I even tried copy/pasting using different browsers (Google Chrome, MS Edge, etc.) to no avail.
Guru: Good luck finding a solution.
i am not sure the problem of putting long posts in here. i dont use Reply, i just Leave a Reply with some context as to what i am replying to. If i want to make sure i dont mess up and delete the long post i spent 20 minutes wriiting and the computer crashes, i use word (or notepad or wordpad), copy and paste like Jack says, put i dont understand doing all the corrections and repaste. i guess i am spoiled with Word? not trying to be mean, just spent all week doing similar boring shit on computers at work i am f’ing tired.
Otto: I do use the button because it then says on the reply just who I am replying to.
I do agree that all this pasting and re-pasting is a bore.
But for me, I don’t like to show my unutterable stupidity at spelling.
here is a sarcastic email i just wrote to sirius xm:
Wow. Finally a single John Lennon song (Isolatiion) among all the drivel songs of Paul, George, Ringo and every myriad lousy celebrity Beatles cover band!
Thanks! Hope a song of beauty and substance and deep emotion does not chase away your listeners!
Forgot to tell you that Cold Turkey is not really a song that anyone wants to listen to.
Here are a few others you could try:
It’s so hard
Oh my love
I know (I know)
Out the blue
Watching the wheels
Whatever gets you through the night
Beautiful boy—I think this one snuck through and you played it—ONCE
Working class hero
Ok I am tired, there are many many more good ones. I cant believe your dj’s who knew the beatles are not standing up for the beautiful songs.
Please slip one or 2 of these in after the 99th time you play Octupus garden sung by pink Floyd.
so i am essentially out of the primal zone, working too hard, although isolation and she came in through the bathroom window took me to a miniscule cry. problem is the wife in other room who likes to crash through my door, and i am too tired to feel much anyway. now i will listen to rachel maddow cry about how trump is trying to destroy the world. no time to read the blog tonite.
Margaret, yes, I’m back..and given what you and others have said, it is normal to be affected by the return to ‘civilian’ life.. it’s just felt worse this time, how really down I’ve felt. It’s very triggering in the present for me to be alone, and not be needed by anyone…not have anyone of my own…leading to ‘what’s the point’ hopelessness. Better times to come, I hope (and know, really).
very nice to hear you are having a good time!
and good feelings as opposed to painful ones.
nice to hear your Spanish studying worked out as well, M
I have been having a good time but have to add, and of course things can change from day to day. that it isn’t quite the vacation that I would most like, which is a special nice time with my wife. To make sure that happens we would have to go somewhere else and it is hard to do that. Her parents are getting up in age and experiencing health concerns recently, and so this year she is mainly helping around the house and taking our niece and nephew to places they need to go. The grandparents are normally doing a lot of the childcare for my nephew, who is seven, while the parents are working.
She isn’t doing all her normal visiting with a lot of people here, so this is a lot different for her.
But this is very similar to the type situation which in the past could greatly trigger me, as I have short vacations which will be over and that’s it for the year. But I already knew all about this before arriving. Maybe I’ve made progress with those old feelings and our relationship is better.
My sons are here which helps a lot; but I’m maybe starting to be triggered about the whole thing. Even though it is all understandable and there is little actual for me to complain about, yet it can still trigger some familiar feelings.
In the remaining days we may have to plan to do more things without J, as she just isn’t really going to join in.
I must say time went by kind of fast, he came by at 11.30 and we left to the nearby square and picked out an outdoors table of a nice restaurant.
afterwards we still went for a few drinks to a nearby café terrace, for a few drinks. we talked about many things, but the most striking was he told me about again having been diagnosed with cancer, which had seemingly spread out since the former operation.
the good part is the suspicious spots were still very small, but he is waiting now for a second opinion on which treatment to take.
he also told me some painful stories about his childhood.
I could also talk about some stuff going on for me, so it was not a bad conversation really.
but still it wasn’t all rewarding, some feeling of distance remained, some vague sadness and unmet need.
I am glad though we met and talked for so long, and I asked him to keep me posted as this time I’d like to know when he has to go to the hospital so I can visit him.
it does affect me, as I do care about him.
My thoughts have been occupied with the camping trip, but I’ve been wanting to say that he must have a high regard for you Margaret that he shared a lot of time with you and a lot about himself.
that ‘what’s the point’ feeling is a bad one isn’t it?
hope something nice happens soon so you don’t get stuck in it for too long.
“Instead of a wall, we should build a mirror and take a good look at ourselves.” (Best online comment I have seen lately)
Vicki: that’s the first time I read that, AND I fully agree.
Didn’t RR suggest that they “Tear down that wall”????
I must say I am totally absorbed by all this Trump idiotic non-sense. It is saying a lot about the US and humanity in general.
watching cat licking cat videos. i feel guilty about doing that. hot as hell outside. no energy left after 6th day of work. wife in background talking to some aa person on phone. chatted with friends at work today or more, i listened, joked a little, didn’t get too much done. doom is in the air.wife was going to leave and go out with friend but now hasn’t left yet. i am feeling, after my conversation with guys at work, i am feeling cheated somehow, by my wife, and her spending. nothing more of substance to say. all feeling gone. she was scared last night and wanted me to hold her in bed for a while. she is sick, she says infection. she needs to get her tooth pulled and all the other procedures after that, but the dentists are slow in getting estimates from the insurance company. my brother called to say he fell and is in nursing home for a while. all i have now is these cat and dog videos. i guess that will have to do. bored, tired, thoughts of being smothered, getting old, getting ready to take that leap. such fucking joy. i am rich rich rich. and fucking trump lives on and people say that he is great and they admire him. what the fuck is this shit.
her overwhelming need is choking the life out of me. old feeling or what. i am just trying to make it through the rest of the day. she kept popping in my room and i told her sharply that she said she was going so go. go. i cant type on blog with her watching. is anything wrong. no i am just tired. tired of this fucking existence that triggers my entire long life of emptiness and nothing but emptiness until the end, but there is no fix for that except watching young happy woman with her pit bull and toddler and sharkcat on youtube. there is nothing else for me. overeating is not making a dent in my bad feelings. chat and laughing with my 2 black friends at work today, about our mismanaging bosses and other stuff, felt good for a minute, but the moment was gone long ago, and was a drop in the bucket. friends at work and our laughing together while we bitch about our jobs and our bosses and politics or whatever is fun, but only lasts so long. not long at all, and all it does is keep me alive another fucking day. humbug. cranky old man.
quick look at young girl doing yoga on youtube. i am not doing yoga i am not dancing. i was lifting 30 pound printers from one pallet and putting them on another pallet today. whoopee.
boy i wish i could do that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr6wglRcp3M 3/30 days of yoga. i dont mean DO that. i mean i wish i could bend my body like that.
Otto: Meet Kino MacGregor. She has mind-blowing moves and likely a very grateful husband.
(Plenty more of these on YouTube. She does tons of videos.)
I’d be extremely scared of fracturing a spine and being left paralyzed when yoga becomes this advanced.
here is a sad one. but i am too tired to cry. Farewell, My Dearly Beloved Micmac https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94OTPh_MHTM
hssg, my knees started hurting when i watched that yoga lady.
I just happened upon the movie “City of Angels” on TV this evening. What a tear jerker! I was primed and ready. That’s all I want to say about it. After the crying, I just want to write here to feel I’m making some kind of connection, that someone is out there, that I’m not totally alone amongst strangers.
Larry: “to feel I’m making some kind of connection,” That is what it sounds like to me.
Take care Larry Yep- tough as it is.
I think that others feel that way too.
Larry, I remembering that movie touched me too. It seemed Meg Ryan character “had it all.” Definitely put through an emotional ringer.
Sylvia, for me the Nicolas Cage character took a leap in order to be with her, leaving behind a comfortably numb life that he knew, plunging into a new, fragile life where he was vulnerable yet felt joyous and alive with her in a way that he had never before experienced.
I guess I felt something of that way upon meeting my wife and getting to know her. Along the way were steps in having to decide whether to open up more to her, and to open up to vulnerability. In taking the risk I opened to a richness in life I had no conscious previous memory of. Having someone opened up life in wonderful new ways. I expected a lifetime together.
And then she was gone. Even now, years later, I’m feeling ever more the enormity of our vulnerability, how heavy and destructive are the shattering blows that life can deliver. When I sink into those feelings of unexpected loss, I acknowledge the feeling that I don’t want to go on in a life that can be so capricious. Then when I feel beyond that, when I feel how I have only this one life and I want to experience it rather than not, I hurt a lot and feel very sad that I will continue on alone without her, to make what I can of life remaining, helpless against whatever unknown calamities may lie ahead.
Probably what primed me for the feelings is that I’ve been pushing outside my comfort zone to make my retirement meaningful to me. I’ve been doing some photography of friends with horses, going on excursions with people in the nature society, and soon I will be leaving on a 4 day camping trip with Unitarians. Digging out the camping gear and getting everything organized and packed is stressful for me, as is feeling anxious about how I will fit in with the group of people I’ve never camped with. I haven’t gone camping in at least a decade. Digging out and leak proofing the tent brought back the memories of the major camping trips in my life, that I was very stressed about going on but that turned out to be wonderful experiences and major turning points in my life. Camping with my wife as we got to know each other was one of those peak life experiences. The memories are so powerful and real that it is a shock to return to the present of her being gone.
Over the years as I delve further into the grief, I’m amazed how open and grounded I became with her in a way I’ve never been, and how naked and alone I’m left without her to manage on my own. And I contemplate, how can a little child manage when feeling even more fragile, helpless and alone.
Larry, as usual I am awed by your feeling writings. I’m glad that your present activities prompted the memories of how you were able to trust your wife and open up to be vulnerable and experience the fullness of life. I really hope you can have that again.
Have a good experience camping, Larry.
It’s true that dealing with present feelings connected to old feelings can remind us of the good and vulnerable times we had with friends. I too had forgotten more open experiences I was capable of until I felt some sad and lonely feelings of childhood.
It would be interesting to meet you some day Sylvia. ….at a retreat perhaps?
I humbly thank you for your nice comments about my writing, but truly I write here to try to communicate as best I can what feels like an important experience I am going through, and how it feels and why it feels important to me. I need to communicate it and hope someone hears. It feels like an important way for me to come back to life, because before no one listened or heard and so I stopped trying and gradually died.
I think that is also why photography has been an ongoing hobby for me. It’s a way to communicate who I am and what is going on in me, especially before Primal Therapy photography was my only way of showing a bit of myself. Now that I am retired I have the time and feel the need to get better at it, but photography is a more difficult medium than writing is in which to convey feelings and meaning, and there is knowledge, tools and techniques to understand and master, which takes time and effort and seems pointless without and audience to communicate to. Thankfully Facebook provides me with an audience that motivates me to try to get better at photography.
Yes Larry, I agree, writing is a more direct expression for feelings and more personal having immediate response. Photography as you say skills are needed, planning and physical subjects or nature captured. But as you say, it too is an expression of yourself and probably will evoke emotional responses to those who see it.
I like movies, and I appreciate the film-makers skills in conveying a story in what he or she is trying to tell. It is kind of a moving photography too when there is beautiful scenery.
I was thinking the other day how great it is the internet. There are so many people who are good at communicating, whether it’s showing how to cook, how to tame feral kittens, or whatever. It is an outlet to develop talents, to help others and to connect, knowing someone is there listening and appreciating.
i feel beaten by what someone close to me is doing to me, at least by what i am seeing through my childhood pain filter. beaten and left with nothing. reminds me of what my grandma did to me– take, take, take, ask more and more from me, and give nothing at all in return. i will try to repress my volcanic anger towards this person in the present, that is all i can try to do, because really, i have tried many many times over the years in joint sessions to take care of this person’s destructive behavior, which just destroys the fuck out of my soul, and this behavior has never been defeated. as my 45-year-old black friend said to me yesterday, as he was describing his life with his 2 20-year old girlfriends and his wealth, even though he makes less than me at work, happy wife, happy life. well that is not happening for me, that is for sure. no where to go with this feeling.
Man, you seem to be finding yourself at the dead end of a dark alley Otto.
Otto, I was wondering if you have something in mind about how this will get better.
A partner’s illness is always stressful time. I feel for you.
The last two days were better here. Luckily my older son is with us and likes to play tennis. We’ve played quite a bit, otherwise I’d be more bored. Tomorrow him and I will be taking a road trip for a few days to Seville, which he has never seen and that will be fun.
Not a surprise to anyone involved in Primal, but certainly an improved perspective, compared to the view of the world I grew up in:
Childhood trauma leads to lifelong chronic illness
August 10, 2016 — (Excerpts below)
Two-thirds of Americans report experiencing Adverse Childhood Experiences. These include obvious sexual and physical abuse, but also stressors that many consider to be normal — growing up with divorced parents, living with a depressed or alcoholic mom or dad, having a parent who belittled or humiliated you – or simply not feeling as if your family had your back. People who’d experienced four such categories of childhood adversity were twice as likely to be diagnosed with cancer and depression as adults.
One statistic struck home with me: women who’d faced three types of childhood adversity had a sixty percent greater risk of being hospitalized with an autoimmune disease as an adult. Similar links existed between childhood stressors and adult heart disease, diabetes, migraines and irritable bowel disease. Suffering six categories of early life stress shortened one’s lifespan by twenty years.
However, one study of 125,000 patients showed that when physicians acknowledged and discussed patients’ childhood trauma openly, patients enjoyed a thirty-five percent reduction in doctor visits. Validating patient suffering invites patients to address it at last. Yet, despite twenty years of research linking childhood stress to adult disease, the majority of the medical community acts as if these findings don’t exist…
Statistics tell us that two-thirds of Americans reading these words, including physicians, will recognize that experiences in their childhood still trail after them today, like small ghosts.
Vicki: That is interesting, as I was convinced the medical profession was not interested in studying WHY we get sick, BUT merely trying to fix the malady … in the here and now. Notably with pills (medication) or surgery.
The only other option, out there is dieting with “dubious” (believable) value.
How, subliminally, the profession is aware of Arthur Janov and his work is a matter of guesswork (as I see it). My take is; that because Janov was not an MD they were not willing to take his word for it.
I’m all for anything that promotes the notion that womb-hood and child-hood are a cause to be seriously looked into. Getting to the point of understanding it all, in terms of “fully expressed feelings” is: another step to investigate, IMO.
Great article Vicki – thank you!
Even many of the comments from readers are good.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY to you!!
watched the 90’s on CNN. i don’t remember the fall of the soviet union.i was busy working, and had lost my job for a few months. raising 2 kids and z had quit her job to learn waldorf teaching, since her job was moving to texas. we had moved up to l.a. for various reasons in 1989, which was a horrible mistake. whatever, now i am going to watch ccn history of comedy. also watched another cnn show that suggests all the russians wanted to do when they interfered in our election, their major purpose was to cause the chaos that is going on right now with all the russian investigations etc. however true this might be, mr. t is still an asshole.
For what might appear as my own perverted reason; I couldn’t resist responding to this comment of yours Otto.
I have, since the election, believed that Putin’s motive was to create chaos in the US political system. He’s smart cookie, least-way compared to Mr. T. I feel he knew what kind of person Trump was. I doesn’t take a PhD in anything to figure that one out.
Sadly, l believe he’s not the only “asshole” in US politics. Or for that matter, those who actual were fooled by him.
well never mind the history of comedy. somehow, it is always the minor artists who get highlighted, for some reason. had enough. wish the lady would come back from her date so i could take the rent check to the post office, and take the dog for a walk.
hey vicki, good article. it occurred to me that doctors are the ones that have to control their feelings when they are confronted with patients’ pain, suffering, death, in real time. they have to hone their focus to a small but vital portion of reality so they can easily cut open a person and cut organs out, etc. just a thought. not sure if i am being clear or not. i am saying that to be a doctor, they have to sublimate their emotions. or maybe they have to think of themselves as little gods. just a thought, as to why the medical profession finds it hard to believe or care about a patient’s childhood trauma. anyway, i will look at the full article in a while.
that is such a good article. maybe i should print it and post it throughout the hospital where i work. but i am too traumatized to be that bold.
larry, finding myself at the dead end of a dark alley. how cheery! ha! i am going to have some nighmares about that one. good call. thanks! i now realize it is not just my grandma’s behavior that brings up these reactions in me, it is also the uncle who could have murdered me that is in play here. well i am definitely glad for the feedback. sylvia not much i can do, your comment is grounding so that i can look at my wife in a kinder view, although i will find it hard to be overly kind. i really appreciate you saying that about a partner’s illness being stressful. thanks.
loved that movie, angels. so sad, so beautiful. meg ryan!
larry, it is always sad to hear you talk about losing your wife. a horrible horrible loss. sorry that it happened to you and her.
That’s thoughtful of you to say, Otto.
margaret, what kind of cookies did your dad bring when you were two and in the midst of strangers?
I must write this down before I forget this.
Tomorrow I embark on the camping holiday. It is about a 5 hour drive to the provincial park. Most of the people in the group arrived today. I couldn’t get ready in time to leave today, and I have to give a blood sample first thing tomorrow morning before I leave on the trip.
By the time I arrive tomorrow, most of the people will have already bonded. Most of the people on this trip will be young families. There will be little kids and their doting parents. Most of the families do things together. I might be the only single adult there, and I certainly don’t normally participate in their usually child oriented family outings.
I’m apprehensive about going. I’m looking for an excuse not to go. But going to this outing is a chance for me to get outside of my comfort zone. While brushing my teeth this evening I realized I feel like an orphan. All the kids there will have parents watching over them. I feel like a little kid who will be at the event but will have no parents to be with, taking care of me. I will just have myself to look after me. But inside there is a little boy wanting my parents with me, like the other little kids have theirs.
I wouldn’t normally think of going on this annual camping trip except last November I was invited to by one of the young Mom’s. She bought one of my prints that I was exhibiting, loved my landscape photography and wanted to meet and talk to me. She loves nature and photographing wildflowers. She and her husband have a young daughter. How could I turn down such a generous invitation to friendship.
In a few more days, when the camping holiday is over, I’ll know whether or not my apprehension about going was misplaced, and probably reflect more on the roots of the apprehension.
Larry, that’s a courageous step…I’m sure you’ll have fun…
Otto, you seem so much clearer…
Sylvia, you are such a positive contributor to the blog…
Vicki, what a great article…
I appreciate all (Gretchen, including Margaret Phil Jack, those not mentioned) contributions… I read the blog daily, and it feels like a familial support that I didn’t get, and touching to hear your posts.
Jo: I’m hoping I’m at least in the “not mentioned” category, for I’ve always appreciated your presence on the blog. You’ve never had a bad word to say about me & you even throw in some support from time to time.
Yes indeed Ug!
Jo: That’s encouraging enough for me, thank you! I’m glad I’m at least in the “not mentioned” category rather than the “unmentionable” category.
Thanks, Jo, glad you liked the article (as did Otto). I saw it posted elsewhere by someone I connected with at my high school reunion, who is now a new friend. I don’t think she knows about P.T., but I believe her adult daughter is dealing with mental health issues, in their community up the coast. We didn’t talk about that at the reunion dinner, but connected in other ways, and she made it clear she was very glad we did — which for me made the reunion a success.
How great to have a new friend Vickie!
Thank you Jo, I feel that I’ve learned from everyone here and it’s so helpful to be involved with this group.
Sylvia, I have to agree with Jo, you are a valued contributor, and I always look forward to reading your posts, although I make it here irregularly.
Thank you, Vicki. I’ve enjoyed reading your posts too. I especially liked your report on the Primal Scream musical you attended long ago. I related to the July 4th fireworks on your street. The cherry bombs in this neighborhood kept the cats here timid for a week.
as I was aabout two years old, I have no memory of which cookies my dad gave me. probably those dry square ones, as it was still late fifties, not much choice and not much money.
guess my mom told my dad to do so as not to have to leave a screaming and crying little girl behind.
but I imagine I felt betrayed and that soon after my dad left the packet of cookies was taken away from me, for ‘later’…
I hope you can sort out the old feelings you have to deal with, bit by bit, as I wonder about whether you can see any positive thing about your wife towards you, she must be fond of you as she is still with you and reaches out to you when she is in another city. or do I see that in a wrong daylight?
are there any nice moments between the two of you?
I liked it she felt free to ask you to hold her while she was hurting.
sometimes words are not necessary, just gestures matter.
that is certainly one link I am going to add to what I have gathered so far.
health psychology seems more open to the connection of stress and health, and disclosure and healing.
there even is a whole new field, neuro-psycho-immunology, studying the relations of three major fields and their interactions.
it is amazing how the findings show even short term stress, not too severe, immediately affets the immune system for some time.
even minor stress like having to lo
solve difficult algebra problems shows declines in the immune system, so it seems obvious major stress has a huge impact.
I have an exam of health psychology tomorrow, and it is in a large part about the impact of stress on diseases, general wellbeing etc.
and about ways to deal with it. a lot of behaviour and cognitive stuff but also some findings about the beneficial effect of disclosure.
jO, that was a nice comment, and I relate to feeling about the blog as some kind of nice familiar connection every morning. this morning was a treat, about 20 comments!
some people in the p. groups use those dating sites with success. my kid has found someone who he seems to like. he had found someone when he was previously up north at college, but she did not want to leave and move down here, when he came back to do higher education. i think dating site is how da rump met wife. or maybe it was just mail order catalog bride.
that’s mean. just angry and tired and bored and almost have had enough. enough for this day, at least.
A song for Vicki now. Not about you at all – but anyone who knows you knows he stole a couple of lines of yours !
Ha, Ha, ha!! Thanks, Leslie, I do like it! “Talking, talking, no clue!” But also, “Ah” “Mm” “Eh?”
yes, happy birthday, two days too late but heartfelt..
Thanks, Margaret, I did my best, and did not go to work that day.
I feel a strong cold coming up, and as I did an exam yesterday and have not received the new course yet, I am also without studying material.
a bad combination, making me feel my life is empty, and it is all hopeless, even though I will go to an in line dancing class for the first time tonight it also feels hard to deal with….
the weather does not help, cloudy and gloomy sigh…
will have to drag myself forward despite all the paralizing feelings..
I stil have a cold, but feel ore optimistic today.
went to the line dancing club yesterday evening, fearing it would be crowded and noisy, but it turned out it was a quiet upstairs room above a bowling place, and there were only three people when I arrived.the teacher, one lady and one man.
we sat and talked after my driver left, and they were very friendly.
very uncomplicated people, and the dancing turned out to be fun.
it is not like square dancing, this is just people doing all kind of steps on various styles of music, all simultaneously.
it seems a relaxed way to have exercise and some social contact.
then upon returning home I found my next course connection to the website is already activated so even while I do not have the actual course yet, I have the access to the course ‘workbook’ on the site, full with stuff we have to learn as well.
so my days are suddenly fuller again.
and it was nice to feel able to fit in with those few people at the in line dance class.
and my mom happened to call me yesterday, it has been many months since she took the initiative to actively use her phone, so it was a nice surprise.
funny too, as when I answered the phone, I heard her say her ful name, in a very polite voice, and asking who she was talking too..
I like it she does just takes initiatives, even while not knowing how things will go.
mm, maybe she passed it through.
Margaret, kudos to you for going to that dance class when you had doubts and not feeling up to par. Glad that your course work is available to you to further your studies. Guess tests are stressful enough to bring on a cold.
I will send some of our California 115 degree heat to your overclouded day.
Great that your mom called you; that must have warmed your day.
I’ve been taming a couple of feral kittens, about 8 weeks old. The mom cat I saw about a month ago had a litter on the other side of the fence. She still has 2 kittens that she cares for and are very wild. I was lucky to capture my two. Don’t know what I will do with them, but it’s good that they will be tame enough to treat for fleas, ear mites and not be afraid of at least one human. One is black with a white chest and paws and the other is gray and white striped, (like the two wild ones.) They stay on the secluded back porch. They are sisters and maybe have different fathers. A big black male and a big gray stripe male keep company with the little mom and kittens at different times. They both probably mated with her and believe the kittens are theirs. They fight when they see each other; a wild kingdom.
Have a good day, Margaret, and hi to your cat family too.
I’m glad you followed through and it turned out good for you Margaret.
California eh Sylvia. Big state I know but again would so love to meet you (along with many other bloggers who would like that) @ the next Retreat!
Thanks, Leslie for making me feel welcomed. It’s been a while since Gretchen said there are no outsiders here. That made me feel great and that this was a welcoming forum. I also had written to her about a subject on which we had a little discussion and I told her a little something about my family. I feel lucky to come as far as I have when in the beginning I wrote with such anxiety hoping not to sound like a foolish person or embarrass myself. The more I wrote and felt my anxiousness about it, and felt an acceptance the more clear my thoughts became. So I thank this blog that has been a big part of helping me to feel and risk.
I wonder if I could even feel among other people since my little journey has been almost solo, except for feeling in front of a couple of family members.
Who knows, maybe I can pack up my 9 cats and my dog and come see you guys. Do you have a kennel there? Jesting, of course.
It’s strange, Leslie. Each time I talk to you guys it is as if I’m talking directly to you, like I have met you already.
I liked that song you played for Vicki. Had not heard of that singer before. I used to listen to Gordon Lightfoot when I was in school. “If you could read my mind” was a favorite.
Sylvia, after years of retreats I’m still not completely comfortable feeling (crying) among other people at the retreat, though I am more and more trusting them and feeling safe to do so…which plunges me even more deeper into the feelings as through being with them I grasp more clearly how unsafe I’ve felt through my life to feel.
Thank you for that, Larry. I guess my shyness has something to do with being ‘seen’ and bringing up early memories of that and being vulnerable. I asked my mom one day how it was different raising little boys vs. a girl, and she said well the boys she could just let them go play with each other as boys do, but with me she wasn’t sure what to do. Not wanting to make a mistake she didn’t really interact with me some of the time. I remember telling her, ‘I hardly knew you were there.’ My toddler pictures I am always holding a cat or dog. I never played with dolls, I only wanted live things. A lifelong family friend when we were neighbors said she always worried a bit about my precarious 3 yrs. old grip on the cats I carried around in the yard and over at her house.
Well, today I returned home from the camping trip, hurting badly but intact. Upfront I paid for one more day stay. Some people had to leave today so I decided to as well. I felt I couldn’t endure one more day.
I never felt as lonely on a camping trip as I did on this one, to the point where my chest physically ached because I badly needed to break down and cry but there was no opportunity to do so. Upon thinking about it while I was there, I realized that on other camping trips, all pleasant and some wonderful, I had always gone with someone, shared the tent, the cooking, eating and cleanup with someone.
This time I was all alone. Our group paid for a camping area in the park. Our area was serviced with 10 or more camping sites around the circumference, each with its own bbq pit, picnic table, and spot for a vehicle and tent or camper. Because I was one of the last to arrive, my spot was at the bottom of a hill, near the entrance where vehicles drove in and out, and out of sight from the main group activity happening around the campers higher on the hill. It was holiday for families, a chance for parents to be with their kids and socialize with other families with kids, and a chance for their kids to have unstructured fun with other kids.
I didn’t know how to fit in. There were many families there from other cities, who I didn’t know but they all knew each other. They had been on this camping trip to the park at least once before, last summer. I immediately felt like an outsider. The little kid in me was estranged from the family happiness, the family togetherness, the doting attentive parents, socializing parents, the socializing children having fun. A family would go out together on a hike perhaps during the day, or together with another family. Or the mothers would sit and visit together through the hot afternoon. Sometimes a group activity was planned like a trail ride one evening or zip lining this morning. I spent my first morning exploring and finding out where the showers, washrooms, offices, restaurants and WiFi were. I had come to this holiday to see nature, hike trails, and do some nature/landscape photography. So that’s what I did, alone. And ate alone and slept alone. I seemed to not know how or didn’t dare invite myself into their activities, which seemed centered on entertaining the kids.
It was so difficult for me to approach the community center of activity that seemed intimate and not for me, or I didn’t feel like I could fit in. My hurt inside was too much contrast to the fun they were having. At least I managed to approach and spend my first afternoon sitting and talking for several hours in the community centre with a group of people. I needed that. I basked in the feeling of connection and being accepted. It sure calmed me down for a while. There were brief gatherings at 7 pm for announcements, which I attended and helped me feel I was keeping some minimal contact with the group, but the majority of the time I was on my own.
I can be on my own. I’ve been on my own for years now. But it hurt badly to be on my own with that group of campers. I kept worrying that I was keeping myself apart from them, but I didn’t know how to fit in, didn’t feel like I could. I hurt at meal time to be at my campsite eating alone, and people walking or driving by could see me alone, while at their campsites families were eating, talking, and laughing among themselves. It hurt to hear families talking and laughing together into the evening, while I have no such similar memory from my growing up and I was all alone now. Last night it hurt to hear the kids and probably some adults as well laughing together and joining in a singalong. They sounded so free, uninhibited and happy. I felt so empty and alone that my chest hurt.
When my wife and I transferred here, after a few years we came to this park to holiday. We attended an astronomy star party. We didn’t know the people, but we needed to try to grow our social circle. Being with her gave me strength to participate in that sea of strangers then. She saved me. Boy did I need her now, powerfully so, wanting to be with me. The memories of what she brought to my life were so clear and powerful, while now I felt so alone and empty.
At least on this trip I had photography and nature to explore, which absorbed my attention and distracted me from my life for a while, but each day I felt more and more alone. So I was glad to leave today. But I arrived home with my tail between my legs, not proud of the experience I had the last few days, wondering will I always be afraid to join in, will I always be alone and feel empty and afraid. After putting left over food in the fridge, feeling very apprehensive about my future alone, I broke down and cried desperate for my life, fearful to have to face life now without my wife, finally feeling and crying like a small child desperate for my Mommy to hold me, to give me a sense of safety and belonging, because life is too hard to do, impossible, on my own.
At least some of the photographs I took are for me a meaningful positive experience from trip. Maybe that’s why I took up photography when I was young. It provides me with a distraction from my life, and a way to find some beauty in life that can otherwise seem stark, empty and pointless.
Larry: You are so adept at writing and conveying your feelings on this blog. I just wondered if is easier for you to write, than converse with someone?
Since, you’ve mentioned several times about this inability to go out there and join in; I wonder if buddying with someone, perhaps on the phone, if you could get cheap calls and someone willing to listen to you. That might be a way to take you out of that ‘more comfortable zone’ (as I see it) of just writing
I suggest this since I get a feeling you hold back on joining in, seemingly waiting to be asked. However, I could very well be wrong here. Without a doubt yours is a very sad story both about your childhood and your loss of Noreen. I would offer to buddy/sit for you except that in less than three weeks I will be leaving LA and relocating in the Netherlands. If and when I get organized there, with a phone (maybe iphone) I could give you the number assuming you have access to cheap calls to Europe. Here in California I subscibe to a company (One Suite) and can get cheap calls to Europe for 2 cent a minute. Don’t know if that company exists in ‘your nick of the forest’ 🙂 .
I already do this for my buddy who has a very similar childhood to yours, of unutterable neglect and not being wanted. Just listening to him go through these feeling is heart rendering and my deep down real reason for doing it, is that it keeps me well into the “feeling zone”.
Just a thought Larry … hope you didn’t mind me mentioning it.
I have no problem buddying at retreats. I generally have no problem getting to my feelings. That’s when I write about myself here, when the feelings are close or I already had them and I don’t want to run away from truths so I pin them up here, in full view that I can’t hide from.
As for conversing with someone, some friends here (non-primal) have told me that they don’t know anyone who knows and expresses their feelings as well as I do. My intellectual type friends here tell me I’m delightful to talk with because I have an objective open mind. A new friend who is a very capable, respected and admired young new research scientist at my once workplace, told me that he doesn’t know anyone who participates in as many things as I do. I spontaneously interject myself into conversations way more than I used to, though not as easily as most people do. It’s probably my nature to be introverted and quiet.
I think the best way to overcome holding back from joining in is to keep trying put myself out there and trying to join in, and afterward dealing with the feelings that were holding me back.
I think what was especially difficult for me at the camping trip, is that I didn’t know how to deal with the kids since I’ve not been one myself and since I don’t know how to be a parent, and I didn’t know how to relate to the adults while they were busied in their role being parents. I didn’t know how to have fun with them. I felt left out, inadequate, and hurt big time. I think the big operative is that in this particular family camping outing I hurt big time and almost let it paralyze me. I give myself credit for at least trying. From being with them I’m shocked to see how much was missing in my life, and I wonder whether I can make something out of the rest of my life with such a vacuum at my base.
Come to think of it, I have a hard time joining in the fun in the games room at retreats, especially after the first few days when I start hurting a lot. But it is getting easier to join in many of the retreat events. Have to keep hammering away at it.
Thanks for the offer Jack. I’ll give it some thought. Safe journey and I hope you will feel at home in your new home.
Larry: Thanks for the good wishes in my new home. However, I will still be blogging and let everyone know how it goes and should you wish to call me and it’s easy and convenient. I’ll be there to listen.
Also I write here so that I’m not so alone.
how interesting that you mention my cold could be related to the stress of the exam.
It occurred to me as well, especially since the exam was in part about how stress affects the immune system and it seemed ironic I catch a cold due to a health psychology exam, smiley.
and yes, it did warm my day when my mom called me unexpectedly.
maybe she was subconscioously triggered by only seeing my halfsister the day before , without me, she even asked her when they were talking about the family and how old they were, if me and my brother were dead, ha, it must be difficult to live in a world you cannot get a good grasp on anymore.
but she with her optimistic mind seems to be doing a good job nevertheless.
so your cat family expanded, they sound cute.
and isn’t it smart of that female cat, I heard foxes do so as well, they mate with the different males around as to make sure none of them kills the litter…
it must be quite a task caring so much about cats and then witnessing those feral cats adding more offfspring again and again, do you plan to keep the two newcomers or seek a new home for them?
do they get along with the other ones?
my heart goes out to you all, wishing you the best, Margaret
Margaret, that must have been a little surprising your mom asking if you and your brother weren’t alive. My mom said those kind of things too.
I don’t know what I’m going to do about the little kitties, just take it day by day. I originally thought my neighbor would take them if I tamed them, but she has 3 of her own and 2 dogs and an ailing husband. She was so nice to buy them 2 giant bags of dry food and brought over some can food too. She promises to come play with them too.
These kittens seem genetically more wild than the litter I raised last year who rule the roost now. Could be because they were 6 weeks when I took them from the mom (and had her spayed.) These are a couple weeks older. I still feed the wild ones and their mom and they are still nursing too. Going cat-crazy here.
Thank you for the good wishes, Margaret; the best for you, too.
you should be proud of yourself you did give it a try.
but it must indeed have been painfully difficult, to be on your own in the midst of families with kids, while you hardly knew any of them.
just a bad situation to be in, and you still managed to make the best of it with your photography.
sometimes it is not your fault at all, just the wrong situation to end up in.
good you are so well in touch with your feelings, you must be healing and growing all the time and your life will have a good chance of improving more and more again.
you are inspiring.
I know some of those families Margaret, though not as well as they know each other. But they are young families and I normally am not comfortable mingling with them. I don’t know how, perhaps because the adults are busy playing the role of parents, and I never had that and don’t know how to. I am hurting and frozen in their midst. That’s why I felt so bad on this trip, because if I joined the group on this camping trip, I felt I should make more of an effort to mingle. It didn’t expect I would have as much difficulty. I discovered I didn’t know them well enough to feel comfortable joining what seemed to me to be their intimate family gatherings. I discovered how much I hurt inside in contrast to how happy they all were. I discovered their happy family gatherings are foreign to me. I saw more clearly how alone and hurting I’ve been through my life. It feels ugly to realize my truth. It feels ugly to see how little I got from my parents, how alone I’ve been, how much I hurt as a result. Yet liberating. I will not beat myself up because my parents were inadequate.
Even though I did feel ashamed for keeping so much to myself and for being so awkward among them, I understand why after crying to the source of the pain. Probably when I see them at Sunday service when it resumes in September, I will discover that they don’t see me as negatively as I imagine, and probably I will discover that some bonding had occurred because they appreciated my effort to be there with them. And when I share with them some of the landscape and nature images I captured at the park, they will see a side of me perhaps they never knew. Photography is a way for me to participate in life, but is a poor substitute for life.
I’m touched by your way of helping me put a positive spin on the experience. Thank you Margaret.
It’s a relief to be home, nestled in a safe non-threatened cocoon, by myself doing not much today, but I’m only hiding from a deep unease. I’m realising that my experience with the camping this week is representative of my entire life’s difficulty in participating in experiences with people that would enrich and energize me. The fullness of the remainder of my life hangs upon the degree to which I can engage with people in an emotionally rich, human way. To protect myself from the pain of neglect I’ve become a recluse from my life’s potential.
I’d sure love to meet you some day as well!
a few months ago I was at some workshop about core qualities, some free evening thing for psychology students, and one example they came up with was asking everyone how they used to play with dolls…
and I was the only one there who said never to have played with dolls, not wanting to do so…
I felt kind of ‘weird’, as it did not even count as an answer to be added on the whiteboard…
for me it illustrated their approach was not very useful, as playing with dolls seemed to be regarded as caretaking…
I told them I did care, about the cats!
we seem so similar on this point, it is good to feel that.
the idea of that motionless doll staring with a blank face even seemed a bit repulsive, at least not appealing.
I do remember for a while having been intrigued upon finding out ‘walking’ dolls existed, with batteries, but never got one as they were too expensive. I would have been quickly bored and disappointed with them probably.
I do remember some of the dolls ended up headless in the garden, maybe used as captured by indians and tied on the torture pole, no clear memory, and some kind of BArbie doll I finally got hold of in my mid teens was also secretly tied to a leg of the table, naked, with just some small cloth on her, which then I slowly pulled off her huge ‘bossom’, which seemed to turn me on a little, hormones racing around at that age…
not that I am a lesbian as far as I know, but I have had many dreams in which i switched from being male to female, even while making love.
or well, several dreams, in former years..
got mixed messages about ‘being like a boy’, which actually was my first big feeling to my own surprise, telling my dad over and over ‘I am a girl!’, and starting to cry with frustration.
the thing is in his view girls did not do all those things which were most fun to do, like climbing trees, playing football, wearing shorts instead of skirts..
Margaret, that does sound like an odd question about how to play with dolls–I wouldn’t know how to answer that one either. I did (and still do) have a life size toddler-size doll I could see on my closet shelf whenever I reached in. I remember the family having regard for her too. I think I saw her as a needed sister substitute in some way in a family of boys.
I thought boys had it better because they had more freedom. I changed my mind when they went into the service or were drafted. I would never have the courage to risk my life in a war.
I remember once in grade school at lunch time on the playground when boys were playing baseball and I asked if I could play in the outfield. My brother had given me his glove from little league and I was also in a girls’ league for a while. As I watched the plays from center field the boys began the play. Their language was so foul and trash-talking so disgusting I never asked to play again. That’s when I knew there was a big difference in the psyche of boys and girls.
I always felt a little separation between me and my brothers. I’m glad one of my brothers changed this pattern when he had his family. His kids even bathed together when they were toddlers and had a normal curiosity about their bodies. There was a funny episode; one time when they were visiting my brother’s 4 yr. old son told the 3 yr. old sister he was going to pee in the toilet and did she want to come and watch, and she said sure, so away they went.
Anyway, a family story for a Saturday.
9 cats and a dog does make traveling just a little more complex Sylvia 😉
Home must be ‘on- the- go’ however and that sounds both fun and comforting.
Here’s a good morning video for all you animal lovers.
(It is a short 1 with a baby orca whale jumping just off our coast up/over here Margaret)
Thank you for the vid. of the baby orca, Leslie. He or she looks so carefree. It looks beautiful up there, almost calm like a lake.
how was Sevilla?
Sevilla was a lot of fun. We saw a whole lot in a few days with Miguel, thanks to his hospitality. It is a very beautiful city with a lot of historic sites. I have seen it before but but saw some more this time and it was the first time for my son. I hope that him and I can do more of this type traveling next year. My younger son does not really enjoy sight seeing. I’m afraid otherwise I’ve been disappointed by this vacation and triggered by my wife’s behavior, to the point that I wonder about repeating it next year. Phil
I would like to tell you what is going on with me.
Few days ago I had a trip to Mladenovac. That is a small town where I grew up 50km south of Belgrade, here in Serbia.
I was preparing for the trip here in flat where I live with my parents and brother. So, I was ready, but I was not good with money. When I was about to left the flat and opened the door, my mother yelled from other room:”Nemanja(my brother) will give you money”. He was outside and should back any moment, I knew it. And than I stepped back from doorway and closed the door waiting for my brother. Imediatelly, I was in panic, I started to choke, than felt weak and numb. Scream was in my throat. I was so so bad and in panic and weak, I thought I will faint. As tension grew and my numbness and weaknes of whole body, I left flat. I called for elevator. Fortunatly, I was alone in elevator, on the verge of tears, weak, numb, and panicked. I leaned on side of elevator. I almost fainted. Elevator was now on ground floor. I left hall of our building and as I got out the building door I got some relief, but still scream in throath, weak, panicked.. I saw, then, my brother coming across and he said:”why you didnt wait fot me to give you the money?? “. I said :” I have to get out, I need to be born. “.” You and your shit, you are crazy”, and he put money in my hand, and leave. I went to bus station weak, with scream in throat and with tension, afraid.
I have never exoected approvement from non primal people as my brother. But since I talked with him about Primal therapy… He was not so furious when he said that I am crazy as I was leaving without money.
I knew it is feeling from my birth, weak, panicked, numb, afraid, tension, and also I almost screamed as last state of defence of agony.
I had horrific birth, 9hours, anesthesia, breech, induced, cord around neck… Central and main event of my life.
Also I know I should be back from the door and went on with feeling, I was in feeling, I am so open, with no defences.
Thanks for listening, I will appreciate any comment.
Nenad: Your comment brought tears to my eyes … you are incredible, doing all this on your own.
Keep us informed.
Why don’t you have defences?
Nenad, it does sound like your birth got triggered, and it made you want to get out of the flat. I’ve heard people say they feel trapped in an elevator enclosure which brings on an anxiety attack even though they are unaware of where the feeling comes from.
I’m glad it turned out okay for you even if it wasn’t the most safe place to feel.
Sometimes I have had feelings of helplessness triggered at public places or riding in a car. Thankfully they haven’t happened in a long time. I don’t mind if early feelings emerge in dreams when defenses are down.
Thanks for sharing, Nenad.
this won’t be pretty. sorry. notice from landlord, raising rent and demanding that i clean up overgrowth in my backyard. i dont even want a backyard anymore. i can barely pick up the trash in my bedroom or my clothes off the floor. i am exhausted, it is muggy, and always super-hot now. i dont even want to go outside. pine needles all over the ground from the traitorous 80-year old pine tree i insisted the landlord not cut down. and the minute i get myself primed to even force myself to go outside to make a cleanup plan, the little woman will get up with., i need cat food, i need miconozale, i forgot some tasteless vegan food at the store yesterday, do you need the car today, i want to go out and have some fun. i am not putting her down, and i told you this would not be pretty. of course she needs to have fun. i do too, but impossible when i am around her. yes i am a f’ing a’hjole. what of it. dried weeds and no good cutting tool, i could never get a weed whacker to work for me. i could get the latino next door who cuts our front yard lawn to work in the back yard, if i wasnt always broke, and if his wife wasnt overly protective of him, and if i didnt mind him snooping around in the backyard and then going home and telling the entire latino world what a slob i am, and he would probably find the garage-full of mice and who knows what, or he would get killed by a black widow spider, which species is endemic in this valley. oh god i wish we lived in a apartment, but we could not even get a bachelor apartment for the $1400 we are paying for this creaky old house with bad electricity and plumbing; that is bearably close to my job. wah wah wah. nope, cant even come within a million miles of an old feeling anymore, exhausted from working 6 days a week. will have to do so for the rest of the year so i am not short on taxes next year. ha, ha, ha. HA. de nada.
Hi Otto, things looking a little dreary today with no will to plunge into the yard work. Boo to the landlord for raising the rent. The next time you invest in some tools you might look at the weed eater by Ryobi One +18 volt lithium-ion cordless string trimmer with battery and charger at Home Depot for $89. They have free shipping if you want to order online. I used to lug around an electric one using a long cord. So many weeds everywhere. Don’t wear sandals when weeding, ha!
If you set a little mouse traps in a shoe box, the lid taped or string-tied shut and a hole carved on one end for the mouse to enter, your cat or dog won’t get into the trap. Place the box along the wall where mice travel.
We have black widows too.
Feel for you, Otto.
Sent from my iPhone
that is too bad, that you end up feeling like that.
glad you did have a good time in Sevilla though.
when will you be back home?
it must be so hard to be so open to these strong feelings and to have no place or company where you feel safe to let the screams or crying out.
in this case it sounds like maybe unexpectedly getting your needs met was a strong trigger, to be taken care of while you already were somewhat anxious about the trip with litttle money.
it seems such a good idea to write about it here.
maybe a very stupid question, but why don’t you ask your wife to help you with the garden and with tidying up the othr stuff?
what would happen if you told her you really need her help?
and I mean in a practical way of communication, with the goal to get somewhere?
sorry if this is coming across as unhelpful or even inappropiate, but it seems so frustrating to hear about two people being together, and seemingly having such a lack of communication and cooperation.
do you ever try or do your old feelings make you feel helplesss or powerless or overwhelmed?
sorry again if this feels out of line, but your wife does seem to live with you so it is hard to put the idea together for me she would not be willing to do her best to help you.
where is it I don’t see it right, what do I miss in this picture?
well another not pretty, that i would be putting here, if i had the privacy and the energy, after staying home most of the day exhausted from my job, bored, watched a stupid movie and felt guilty doing that. what about us? there is no us, there is only you i did not say that out loud. i am in no mood to be cruel. anniversary coming up on friday. how long do i have to keep working like this. for a long time, to catch up on tax payments. i ran out of money, so i did not buy cat food. well there are cans of tuna out there. is it salt free. maybe. hell, there wasn’t even water in the cat’s bowl this morning, why you worried about salt. i ate a lot of bread and butter. really cleaned me out, about 10 mins ago, just when she came back from her party in the park. i told you it was not going to be pretty. she has lower bowel pains and her right arm hurts from plunging the toilet all the time. we both seem to be losing all our muscle masses, but she is on testosterone i think, so apparently testosterone would not do me any good. if i could afford it. i did clean up some of the back yard this morning before lucifer came down to visit. my gardener uses our trash can to put his own branches and other clippings from around the neighborhood, so i have a bunch of palm tree leaves sitting next to the container. hopefully he gets the hint and chops them up and puts them in the container after trash day. what a whiner i am. wah wah. i treasure my wife, i really do. she lights up my life. she is a treasure. i am the problem. some entity in the universe cursed me in year one and took away my mommy, and year after year since, has made my life miserable, and then i joined into that misery-seeking of my own volition, at some point.
Your disclosure does ooze misery, Otto. I have some days a little bit like that. I can imagine how hard it would be to live it always.
now she wanted me to rub her sore arm and shoulder. the arm that hurts from plunging the toilet. i am not trying to be mean. i just need to say this shit. not pretty coming in a second. primal therapy ruined my long-held silence. i probably should shut up more than i do, these days. so i rub her arm with her expensive bottle of herb oil whatever. she says she is stressed because i am working so hard there is no energy left for us. of course i say that i have to pay all the owed credit bills for dental and dog and cat-life saving issues the past few years. whatever. and taxes; how boring i am. i was only trying to listen to dark secret place to find out why Iran and Russia are teaming up with the Taliban against us in Afghanistan. hmm. kids screaming outside at night 9:30. summer, full moon. they must be having fun. anyway. i am rubbing her arm and of course i am going to get mildly aroused, but what with the monistat area being off the map, and the arm too sore to replace that kind of pleasure, well i just ended up with nothing, as usual. but i did have some kind of thought, which i have had before, that maybe my mommy lingered a bit too long on my peepee when changing my diaper many years ago. since my dad died a few months into her pregnancy of me, and her being so young and possibly enthralled with the sex she had been having with her husband, maybe she was missing his thing and like i said, lingering on mine too long. which would have made me overly sexual when i became a teenager. to add more to my misery, since i couldn’t get any, in the age of free love. anyway, just a theory. i don’t feel i am being inappropriate, since group members talk about this kind of stuff from time to time. i dont feel like my mom was molesting me, if she was actually doing that, anyway, just a theory. probably too much information? full moon made me do it.
Otto, maybe hyper-sexuality can come from lack of touch as an infant and child–not getting enough hugs. Seems like I’ve read that in the primal literature.
It seems to me that the degree to which we objectify someone is inversely proportional to the degree of our unresolved pain of childhood neglect that we are unaware of. Becoming aware of it and acknowledging it would seem to be the first step toward healing from it. I feel in saying what you need to and being open to it’s roots you are finding your way toward a healthier outcome Otto.
Oops! I meant to say it is directly proportional.
Otto: I could chip in with a weird penis story from my infancy as well. I had several different people change my diapers when I was tiny. One day someone made a mistake when placing and closing a small safety pin on the front of my diaper or baby pants. The dorsal portion of my penis was resting against the front fabric of the clothing, and the safety pin pierced the skin, went under the skin for about 1/8 inch, and came back out through the clothing.
In other words, the front of my penis was literally left attached to my pants or diaper by a completed safety pin circuit. To this day I still have two tiny holes on my penis spaced slightly apart where an earring or other piece of jewelry could be attached, much like a piercing only the needle runs under the skin a brief distance and comes back out. The holes are so small that it requires a full erection to see them and attach any jewelry, haha.
Obviously someone made a mistake and panicked, taking out the safety pin. I have no idea who it was and that person was likely too ashamed to say anything. Thinking it was likely a babysitter when my mother was still alive.
how do you mean it when you said you treasure your wife?
Otto: If a magical leprechaun appeared and gave you a check for $3 million, would many of your problems pulling you apart in your life every day disappear? I used the $3 million figure for California because it’s the equivalent of $1 million in most other US states.
What sort of problems would you envision yourself still having that money couldn’t solve?
Guru: Money doesn’t solve problems … it merely reshuffles our act-outs.
Whatever one does, and there are myriads of them; “Primal Pain” remains until sufficiently felt and expressed.
Go figure. Jack
Jack, I was asking Otto. I already knew what you were going to say. Why do people feel the need to jump in and interrupt when I am asking someone else a question?
Guru: this is a blog for anyone, at anytime, to “jump in” and express what they feel. It’s not your private communication forum. I was ‘inspired’ to “jump in” It’s your perception that I was “interrupting” … Yeah?
I get the feeling (though I could be wrong), that there’s something else going on for you here.
If you were to say what my response DID to you; I feel that might be what (seemingly) is bugging you. Others have said so also, about you Guru … you rarely tell us what you feel. You ‘trot off’ (my phrase) your THINKING on the matter.
Yes!!! I do have a strong feeling/opinion about “MONEY” and what it does to us as a species.
Unless someone asks, I’ll not go into it … again.
Jack: Since money only represents a reshuffling of act-outs to you, why not give everything you own away to strangers? All it would do is revert the act-outs to their original configuration, right?
Guru: WRONG.!!!! All the arguments about retaining “MONEY” , are frivolous. Money is the best way to control “the other guy”. “Oh no!!!! not me … I’m near perfect” Problem:- we are all the ‘other guy’.
One other thing. Money is the one thing all us NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OF.
If I were to give my money away. You’d be the first I would donate it to.
Go figure … if you can … cos it seems to me you can’t.
Jack, so by your saying that “if I were to give my money away. You’d be the first I would donate it to”, you are actually PARTICIPATING in retaining money aren’t you? Isn’t that activity even more deeply frivolous than simply discussing my proposed topic that you have responded so vehemently to?
Guru: I would immediately give you all my money the very moment that money was abolished to demonstrate to you it’s worthlessness.
You don’t “get it” just like. seemingly, you don’t get Primal Therapy/theory.
P.S. I am enjoying this baqnter … czn’t you tell.
Jack and Guru,
This discussion is priceless
Phil: In what way is it “priceless”? Could you, would you elaborate on it? TIA
It is a whole different situation conjecturing what something would be like, before one experiences it. It is for that reason that I state:- No-one knows exactly what it would be like if we did abolish money … just as no-one single person knows how we might accomplish it.
There is always, as I see it, a lot of conjecturing, what and how things might be, before we are in that situation, This applies for many situation, marriage being just one, and especially politics.. It’s one thing to campaign saying what one will do, BUT once elected it becomes a whole different ‘ball game’, once in office … as I see now with Donald Trump.
Sadly, his neurosis won’t allow him to admit it.
Oh Guru, what would you do with that money, hmm?
Guru, also the second part of what you were saying to Otto, would you still have unresolved problems with the money. Sorry, could not resist horning in on the discussion.
If you’re asking ME that question, I know exactly what should be done with seven figures which I will not talk about on the blog, but I am asking Otto here.
Guru, since Otto is hard at work and won’t be home for a while with an answer I thought you might have one for yourself as to what problems would still need solving after financial security was no longer a problem. I was thinking it was a good question you asked of him that each of us probably think about for ourselves.
I will leave it to him to ask you if he wants, the turn-about question, since it is his and your conversation.
just laying around for a moment, listening to the sounds of the neighbors upstairs , noticing how it irritates me and makes me feel I would like to just shoot them, I suddenly get a piece of insight…
big part of what I feel seems to be that people around me, (childhood family), do not give me what I deserve.
not the interest, attention, kindness, affection..
and I notice how apart of deep sadness, there is also a lot of suppressed anger and resentment..
mixed into the lot despair..
maybe I feel that if ever I should let out the anger I would just shatter it all, the illusion of hope, and make it even worse as I’d be completely disapproved of, and rejected, for being ungrateful, never enough, etc. that is at least how it was as a kid on hindsight.
and I notice how it still colours my present, first the feeling of not getting my needs met, and then resenting, and a tendency to blame..
I think I have come a long way in not acting it out, but as some of the feeling seems to stil be there, I guess it would be useful to have it finding its way to the surface, maybe on a retreat.
it is a nasty one, need mixed in with anger, a dangerous mix as to drive away people that actually are close in the present.
another aspect of it is people seem very sensitive to expressed need or pain, feel you blame them and sometimes get defensive and angry or turn away.
so I notice too how the risk rises to keep things safe and not ask for anything, not a good attitude either.
i wont say much. just that it is hard. very hard. not difficult beyond belief, but simultaneous pains in the ass. whatever.
Priceless, just a little joke in reference to money. As far as abolishing money, we wouldn’t be able to predict what would happen in that case either, would we? It would be an experiment.
Phil: Correct; but there is a president as what it might be like, IF we were to consider that the invention (creation) of money is: in terms of our evolution, a very recent creation.
What needs to be thought through is:- why was it created? My feeling/opinion/conjecture is that it was a means to CONTROL (mainly the other guy … not me). Tragically, once that control is set in place it takes a whole other reorganization of society to keep it in-tact … hence rulers, tribal leaders, monarchs, parliaments (governments) then politics to create laws to keep it in place.
Tragically, as I see it, the very foundation of neurosis … parents controlling their kids rather than just simply letting children be who and what they are. We neurotics are for ever seeking better ways to control … ‘the other guy’.
Maybe you disagree.
Abolishing money would be an apocalyptic disaster and it’s never going to happen, anyway. If you want some subtle hints where we really should be going along these lines, I submit to you the articles below:
The bizarre tale of President Nixon and his basic income bill
That time when Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld ran a universal basic income experiment for Nixon
Guru: what gives you the authority to know that:- “Abolishing money would be an apocalyptic disaster”.
Better minds than yours or mine, feel/think/opine differently.
I read both links. It occurred to me these are “band aids” to ending poverty. While money exist there will always be poverty. Greed abounds when it come to money. To repeat:- We, non of us EVER have enough money … we always want more. You are a ‘supreme superstar’ case … in point.
Jack: No, what you’re saying is simply not true at all. There are no significant numbers of, as you put it, “Better minds than yours or mine, feel/think/opine (that abolishing money is a non-mentally retarded idea).”
However, the more realistic basic income movement already has far too many powerful, prominent, and intellectually sound adherents for me to list:
Guru: To quote Reagan:- “There you go again”.
“what you’re saying is simply not true”. Really: ‘gospel according to whom????
Then “abolishing money is a non-mentally retarded idea.” Oh! I forgot … Humankind’s Supreme Superstar Guru. Ah now I see!!!! you are the guru to end all gurus.
Among many of the other feelings I have about you, is that you LACK humility. What ever.
Jack, so you think that Humankind’s Supreme Superstar Guru lacks humility? Is he arrogant? What other characteristics do you ascribe to him?
Jack, I don’t really want to get into the abolishing money discussion again, but I have thought that t money was invented to facilitate transactions and to improve on the bartering system. Maybe a form of control in that you can’t have what I’ve got, unless you give me something of agreeable value. Is wanting your money a form of control?
Or I could be nice and just give it away for free, but that’s now how the world currently works.
If you really don’t want to get into the “abolishing money discussion” don’t start the conversation. Simple as that. As the saying goes: “If you don’t like the heat; get out of the kitchen” Else, as I see your response, there’s something in the background here.
I don’t agree that money was invented “to facilitate transactions and to improve on the bartering system”. The barter system is part of the problem IMO. We actually don’t even have to barter or use ANY form of exchange. However to get ones arms around the concept requires a little more notion than “Abolishing money would be an apocalyptic disaster”.
What comes first:- “the chicken or the egg?” Barter and all other forms of exchange are also CONTROLLING factors. If you wish to get into WHY we needed ‘exchange systems’ (capitalism), read Karl Marx’s “Das Capital” He figured out brilliantly, what was wrong. Where I feel he made a mistake was in suggesting how to change it. No one person can do that (as we see it), as happened in almost all communists take overs. Had Marx, IMO, known Primal Theory he might have taken a whole different tak. Merely my feeling/though/opinion.
Replying here Vicki – as I only just saw your post re the song “13” way back up there.
“Talking, talking talking – no clue” was strictly all I was referring to.
Hope you are getting royalties 🙂
That’s funny, thanks, Leslie. No royalties, yet.
I have read Marx’s “Das Capital” and it didn’t make a big impression on me. Something is wrong with our system, but I don’t know that communism is the answer.
I’ll jump into this conversation since Jack does these things with me. Communism is not the answer. Capitalism with a strong safety net floor is a much better approach. In the end, something like a universal income would simply shift demand to a different complexion of industries (more basic goods & services) with a higher velocity of money in society as a whole.
i am destroyed. i feel beyond horrible. just to get the privacy to write these few sentences was a struggle. i will try to.. nope she was nt even going to let that happen. shit. she gets a bad feeling from me. no fooling….
When I think back to who I was before I read the Primal Scream, I remember now that back then I was unaware of how I felt. I think I was subdued and anxious all the time, keeping a lid on feelings and not acknowledging them to myself.
Fitness devices can count your footsteps and record you pulse rate to determine your exercise output. More sophisticated ones can measure your skin conductance and temperature, and tell you your mood and stress level. In a recent interview, a leading thinker suggests such devices would be helpful to people who have difficulty assessing their feelings. She added “I’ve had computer scientists pull me aside, usually privately, and say ‘I don’t understand what you mean by “feelings”. So we have an opportunity to help people learn more about their feelings.”
She ends the interview with “Affective technologies can augment our innate ability to understand feelings–our own and those of others………technology can help us measure, understand and manage how emotions influence our choices. We can create a better future by finding engaging ways to communicate with one another–and learning what people really want.”
Even though my therapy has been decades of work, I’m glad I’m not going through life needing a computer to tell me how I feel, to help me to communicate more effectively, and to help me know what I really want. It disturbs me that a leading thinker envisions a future where some souls trapped in unfeeling will have only a computer to turn to for help to become more human. It’s reminiscent of the Harlow rhesus monkey having only a wire cage mother to turn to.
Larry: I agree that there is no substitute for getting into ones feelings other than this therapy, if we were so ‘cut off’ from them in the past.
What I have tried hard to research is how to prevent it in the first place. After a great deal of thinking and looking into all that I had read and heard in lectures; I reasoned one possibility.
I concluded that educating parents and potential parents, wasn’t going to do it.
Since therapy is never going to be possible for the masses out there, then what MIGHT be another possibility?
Should there not be some ‘turn around’ then I feel the human race is doomed to extinction and possibly sooner that we might anticipate. I do feel however, that so many things seem to happening on the political front in many countries. Out of that may arise that, that I have been promoting. It’s a hard sell I contend, because we keep trying to tweak that, that already exists, and for the most part we are not able to see ‘outside the box’ let alone get outside the box we have, over the years, put ourselves into. The box being “neurosis”.
of course i feel bad for her, having to be around the pile of shit that i am.
this is a fucking joke. the north korean bomb that can hit hawaii in 20 minutes is only as powerful as the one that hit hiroshima. and some people survived that bomb. so hawaii’s plan is to sound an alarm, and you should get in the center of the house or find a cave. ha! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTZx1KF5vRA How Hawaii is preparing for a nuclear strike
now i feel better. the wife is now having to drink tap water because we ran out of money or something like that, on sunday. now i feel better. schadefreude? told you i was shit. so maybe california will get a extra 5 minutes to find a cave….
i am getting a bad feeling here. who put nikki haley in charge here? you are going to provoke a guy who acts like he is on pcp, or you going to get close enough to talk to him, like tillerson wants to? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_owM-N87Plw#t=167.783519 Haley on North Korea: We hit them and we hit them hard jeesus who the fuck is in charge? oh yeah
now i see the problem. “When Haley was five years old, her parents entered her in the “Miss Bamberg” contest. The contest traditionally crowned a black queen and a white queen. Since the judges decided Haley did not fit either category, they disqualified her.” here is old feelings at work! just kidding.
Otto: I don’t think it is kidding. I too feel it’s old feelings for her. That sadly, goes for most of us. Problem: as I see it, is when those people with huge old feeling are trying to speak for all of us.
Your wife included. It’s not ALL your fault. It takes “two to tango” as the saying goes.
ok i better watch this stuff instead: Heartbroken Cat Finds Happiness When She Becomes Mom to Orphaned Kitten In Need of Love
After some chatting with knowledgeable parties, it appears I am going to have to retract the safety pin story accidentally being stuck in my very special area. It was noted that holes and tubes which appears as genuine piercings done by needles are actually a semi-commonplace occurrence among men. I was not aware of this, and I could only logically explain it with a safety pin accident when I was little.
This is a good precautionary tale that fake memories can be constructed to suit current purposes or to make better sense of one’s life. So, without further adieu I retract my safety pin story with apologies to the blog. If I hadn’t really thought it was a likely explanation, I wouldn’t have said anything at all; I simply wanted to add to the conversation Otto was having about his mother.
I briefly want to add something else on a different topic: I noticed the famous Judge Judy signed a 4-year contract for $95 million. To me, something seems really morally whacked getting paid that much to make a public nationwide mockery of little tiny people having disputes involving $5,000 or less. To put that in perspective, she’s getting paid 19,000 times as much money as the amounts she publicly ridicules people over.
Oops, it appears I misread things. She makes $45 million per year and is selling a library of past shows to CBS for $95 million on top of that. So, the moral whackery is even worse than I originally made it out to be!
Guru: ‘Abolishing money would solve that problem in one single step.
Jack: Let’s put the abolishing money argument aside for a moment, for that is a monumental issue. Would you at least validate my observation that something seems morally whacked about that Judge Judy situation? I would feel like a totally dishonest, tyrannical scumbag if I was getting paid hundreds of millions of dollars to ridicule people over a few thousand dollars on nationwide TV, but that’s just me.
Judge Judy has to be considered an entertainer and entertainers can make a lot of money when there is an audience, whether that’s right or wrong. Maybe there’s a potential audience for a TV guru.
I am sure there are superficially entertaining moments if you maintain a strict tunnel vision of what’s going on case-by-case if you don’t consider any external factors. The total big picture of the situation is abhorrent to me, though.
Guru: That is your sentiment/feeling and that is fine by me. However be careful that you don’t assume that you feeling/s are universal. Own your feeling, and know it is unique unto you.
Should you wish to promote your idea/s, understand that you are likely to come in for some flack. It is for this reason that I see “righteousness and wrongteousness as mearly someone else’s delination … and not a universal notion, that many religeous leader profess.
This comment of yours is still going on about money, in-spite of your desire to put it aside.
I wanted to wish you well in the Netherlands. It’s pretty courageous to move to a new country where you don’t even know the language. I hope you enjoy life there.
I suppose that if you tell almost any European that you moved from the States because you couldn’t stand Trump, they will treat you sympathetically.
I understand that Patrick has asked for your help in reclaiming some savings he put away years ago. I hope you can help him; I know he is worried about being able to support himself in his old age – something we all have reason to worry about.
I know you’ve written that you don’t hate him or dislike him, so you’ve probably already got back to him anyway, but I thought I’d chip in with my ha’pence worth.
Having said all that, I must acknowledge that he has spouted a while bunch of things on this blog that I would heartily disagree with (and I tell him so), but the fact that your name is on this paperwork is testifies to the trust he had in you, partly because he felt that as a fellow Primal patient, even though you might disagree, fight and argue, in the final analysis you wouldn’t let him down.
— Patrick told me he wrote you about something, so I thought I’d step in as a possible middle man. He has not asked me to do this; if he had I probably wouldn’t. I’m stubborn that way.
I was going to respond to Jack, but Tim’s post appears more urgent, so I will digress….
That seems like a private, personal issue between two people that you are bringing out in public here, Tim. It bothers me that you used this blog as a forum for it rather than communicate in private with Jack about it.
Tim: Thanks for the well wishing. There is some trepidation for both me and my partner. It’s a huge move after 36 years here; plus the language question for me, in-spite of that most Dutch speak English. The other factor is making this kind of move at my age. It was no big deal when I was younger, and I did it many times.
The Trump thing does pre-occupy me more than it should. What he might do to the Republican party or to the country for that matter, I am not worried about. It is what his beligerence will do to the planet that does worry me greatly, since I feel he reacts not with any deep thought, but from what I see as his own “old feelings” that he’s completely oblivious of. A common practice by many neurotics, as I see it. Janov calls it “being on automatic pilot”
On the Patrick front. If indeed he did contact me, I have no memory of it. As for a signature or my willingness to help him out: is a total mystery to me. Should you be able clarify this with him I will read your response. As far as my memory goes he wanted me to withold the application I wrote for the company, as leverage to prevent them from taking him to court; whereby he got (my understanding) only 5 years of payment and half of what he was asking of them. I was willing to let him do that, IF I got permission from the new owners. My insistence on getting their permission IMO was what he balked against. The rest is history.
Takle care Tim. Jack
Larry was bothered by Tim’s posting. I found myself intrigued by it. Jack has wanted to abolish money and much of his lamentations had to do with people using money as a means of controlling others. I actually agree with the “controlling others” point wholeheartedly, but if Jack is truly withholding a crucial signature as a means of control over Patrick, it becomes more of a public concern because it helps the blog reader decide how much weight we should give the sincerity of Jack’s message that money shouldn’t be used as a means of control over others.
Guru: I’ve put it out there several time. It would be boring to repeat. FYI the only contract I signed with Patrick was one that gave me ownership of the software I wrote for Gentle Giant. I never had any control over Ptrick what-so-ever. He intially employed me.
Since there was a prior unwritten employment contract, I needed with that contract to protect my work, that was not done in employment time. I often worked on it well into the early hours of the morning. I was a mover’s helper and packer and paid for that work only.
At Patricks expense I did travel to conventions with him for several years. No-one else wanted to go with him. Hope that satisfies your curiosty Guru. Unlike you I don’t have ‘privacy’ issues; I have nothing to hide. My Jimbo does, but that is his prerogative.
Judge Judy seems like she likes to judge people whether she gets paid for it or not. Would not like someone like that to be an aunt or cousin. She is not a very sympathetic one, is she. I can imagine her picking apart all one’s faults–you didn’t finish your education? What’s the matter with you? Another relative I wouldn’t want is Dr. Phil, who knows Everything and is convinced he is right. I must say these two handle the jerks pretty well that come before them but lack sensitivity and humility.
I prefer TV Judge Marilyn Milian, who seems to own a heart.
Sylvia: What makes matters worse here is that it’s impossible to know the full story behind a person in a few minutes of television. Think of how long people go through the therapy system to flesh everything out; it can take years and years of work with no guarantee one will reach the bottom of things about a person. Picking apart all of one’s faults in just a few minutes of knowing someone really sounds incredibly disingenuous.
I can only add they don’t seem to realize how fragile their good luck really is. Either one of them could have easily suffered what happened to my mother at her age, and everybody would ask, “Judge who?” or “Dr. who? Never heard of them. Were they supposed to be somebody?”
Yes, Guru, such unfairness and pain, I can’t imagine how awful to lose someone with a life of promise who is your mom. Not to mention the painfulness on all the other levels.
Judge Judy and Dr. Phil just strike me as ones who don’t care about other people; but nevertheless are in the position of influence over them.
Since I have been writing here about anticipating situations and events before they happen, and the impossibility to accurately see how it will manifest itself: I find myself in the very same situation with regards to my pending move back to Europe.
For all that, I find myself trying to anticipate what it will be like. I know it’s futile, but I still can’t stop doing it. I think it’s called “being compulsive”. It’s sort of hard to let it all happen and ride along with all the ups and downs.
That’s it for this moment in time, for me. Jack
I think that we like to be in control. When we aren’t we feel vulnerable.
I think that in trying to anticipate what it will be like and possibly imagining the worst as well as the happy scenario, you are preparing yourself for the leap into the unknown, so that it won’t be totally foreign when you are there and you will be in some control. We always have a vision and some plan of what we will do in the near future, even if for instance it’s just the intention to have breakfast in the morning tomorrow followed by drinking coffee and reading the paper. You’d have to anticipate a different plan for tomorrow morning if you have relatives over to stay for a few days. There is always some kind of plan we are formulating for the future.
Perhaps with an unknown future your childhood history and your recent experiences find you dwelling on scenarios that you normally avoid, that you fear might unfold, and you inevitably wrestle with how you will handle them. Seems like a healthy thing to do, but it becomes wasted energy once we have prepared as best we can and have decided we will leap into the firmament and trust the future. Perhaps you aren’t sure you made the right decision. What do you think?
Larry: this response to me give me quite a lot to think about. Since you asked me, I will endeavor to think about it for a while, before posting a reply.
Later: I feel you might have misread my remarks on the matter of controlling. I felt I was quite specific that it was the “control of others”. Not my control of me. Maybe I did make that as clear as I thought.
The ‘anticipatory factor’ is another matter. Not only do I anticipate what I will do for breakfast in the morning; I actually prepare it. That isn’t to say that it will go as planned. If I can accept that circumstances can change; then chances are I will not be unduly upset because circumstances changed. I will of course have to adapt to those new circumstances. I consider that (as of now) no big deal.
On your last point: We both of us (Jimbo and I) knew that there was nothing we could be CERTAIN of … and discussed it. I said in that discussion that:- “it’s a crap shoot … we have to take that risk”. That seemed to be the deciding factor in our decision to find a place and go.
I’ve been very upset and triggered all this week since coming back from vacation, although today it’s feeling like it is dissipating As I’ve already mentioned, it has to do with how my wife treated me in Spain. It surprised my that it happened again as we’ve had good trips there in recent years. I guess the problem is she always has a good time there but in my case it depends on her, and this year it felt like she was ignoring me. That really triggered me massively. It makes me very angry and wanting to shut myself off from her, and have nothing to do with her. I felt very angry, frustrated, and disgusted. In Spain she is together with many family members and friends. They are people I know too but I can easily feel kind of shut out because of the language difficulty.
I certainly can’t enjoy things to the fullest extent when I can’t say all that I might like. I really said very little. It also feels like I can’t change the pattern from past years when I said little, and now nobody expects much coming from me.
I was realizing how I just don’t feel like making the required effort. I didn’t use all the Spanish I know, which is quite a bit. There is anxiety having to do with making mistakes while speaking and just not being understood. My wife doesn’t relate to this problem. She sees that I don’t use the Spanish I know, which also triggers her in a negative way.
It’s quite possible that if on this trip my wife was not there at all, I could have felt I was having a better time. My sons were there and I did a lot, especially with my older one. The biggest problem was how triggered my wife had me feeling, which has been continuing here. She has vacation until September but for me that’s it for the year. Just the idea of that is upsetting to me. She treated me like shit on the only vacation I have with her.. At least we are back here in a different environment where I won’t be triggered in the same way. But it feels as if she can just pretend it didn’t happen.
It definitely feels very similar in some ways to how my mother treated me in my childhood. Like I don’t count, can be ignored. I’m not important. I did a lot of crying this week, but none of it has given me good relief. The truth is, it feels like something purposely done to me whether consciously or not. In my wife’s case too. The feeling is that she did something to me purposely, because it seems so obvious. But apparently she doesn’t do it purposely, it just happens. It isn’t something I imagine, and I feel sure anyone would be put off by it, maybe just not as triggered as I get. I certainly should take steps to prevent it from ever happening again. It makes me wonder about spending long periods of time over there in the future. That probably would have a small chance of working out well.
We did speak about this issue and my wife suggests I not go next year, and that the two of us take a different vacation. She doesn’t apologize for her behavior though.
She feels she has to go to Spain every year as that’s where her family is, so she would still go. That might be what I’ll have to do, but it never has felt like an ideal solution. I wouldn’t be on vacation with my family and my in-laws will be upset and hurt that I didn’t go. Or I could go, but make sure to do additional traveling with my son for a good part of the time.
All of this is a big problem between us, or especially for me, and has been for many years.
Phil, that does sound like an upsetting time on vacation. Is there a specific incident that you can describe in how you were ignored or feel shut out, that triggered you?
Good question. Well one thing; she wouldn’t sleep in bed with me, except for the first night, and even then she left because I was snoring. This is a big deal to me and we sleep together at home. She admits she could have tried harder. Great, but now my vacation is over.
We are not on any schedule over there, except dinner is at 3:00 pm, and we could sleep half the day anyway. At the retreat I slept with like 10 guys snoring, and not even married to any of them. It’s also kind of emblematic of how she treated me. It’s like she’s in her home town, with all her family and friends around for support, making it a good time to treat me like shit.
Also, she didn’t want to do hardly anything special except be available for her parents who have been experiencing some health issues. I wouldn’t argue this point, but they seemed to be doing not bad, and we were on vacation, and another daughter lives right next door. Now we are back home, our vacation is over, and she hardly did a thing. But even this would have been OK if we were relating good. Her parents weren’t demanding anything, just happy that we were around. Her mother, however, feels obligated to cook all meals and we all have to sit down to eat together, and that could be 8, 10, or 12 people. It’s impossible to get her not to do that, and her father expects it. One thing I can say is I did eat very well.
I’m probably going to need to talk about all this in a session. I still feel quite messed up and unhappy about the whole thing.
Phil, indeed, it does sound like a stressful time. Not exactly neutral territory for you. Doesn’t sound fair to you.
I’m just guessing a little bit about the not sleeping in the same bed. Even though you’ve been married a long time, just wondered if she still feels awkward about being in her parents’ house with her bed partner. That probably would be inhibiting in some ways.
It does sound more like an obligation trip than a true vacation, though the getaway to see the sights must have been nice.
Good luck with your sessions about this.
(I had to laugh about the image of 10 guys snoring at your retreat.)
No, my wife has no problem sleeping with me in her parents house and that’s mostly what we’ve done in the past. Anyway, that’s just one thing.
Another explanation, although not an excuse to me, is that she arrived there three weeks ahead of me. She kind of entered a different zone relating to her family group and not thinking of me. When I arrived, I couldn’t shake her loose from that. It seems like when she’s in that space it’s hard for her to see me. It shouldn’t happen. I wouldn’t behave that way, I don’t think, but I have no such family group I’m attached to.
She mentioned about the group, and how that’s important to her, although most of them were working aside from her parents, and not that available. and she realizes it’s not of importance to me, which is true, although I feel fine with her family group, her sisters, cousins and their families. I would enjoy that more if I could communicate better, but she’s right that it’s not what I’m looking for and we end up at cross purposes. She wants to mostly do things with this group. None of this is new for this year, it’s an ongoing situation.
The thing about it is that my wife and sons will take this trip annually whether I go or not. Either I don’t go, feel abandoned here at home, left out and triggered, or I go and risk having a bad time and being triggered that way.. Neither choice seems to be that good,but it has seemed better to be with my family and there is the potential for a good time. Some of it was good, it’s just that this problem with my wife has so triggered me.
There’s also a stuck feeling for me with all of this. Part of it is, this is what can happen when you are in a relationship with a foreigner or someone from a far away state. If Juana’s family group is so important to her maybe she should have stayed there and married a guy in town. It’s kind of a contradiction in her life that she moved so far away to a different continent. She likes being far away yet has to return every year, like a migratory bird or something, and I can’t quite be included with that. I’m from a different flock.
From what you say Phil, it seems to me that while on holiday in Spain your wife wants to revert to being the child in the community she grew up in, which seems to include some disengagement from you, and is able to get away with it for the few weeks that the holiday lasts.
I don’t know if this helps, but your experience never happened between my wife and I. Whether we were on holiday visiting her community for three weeks, or whether we were visiting mine, she and I were the centre of each other’s lives. That could be because the experience of growing up in our respective families was not all that good and she and i needed each other very much and felt our best with each other.
We would argue though about other things, and sometimes go for days or even weeks with a coldness between us. Inevitably there were, I felt, problems in our relationship that I had to accept did not seem resolvable at least for the time being, and all I could do was explore my feelings about it and hope for the best and dread the worst.
When we are in Spain, I am not the center of my wife’s life, that is for sure, and that is disturbing to me.
What I would add is that when my kids were little, which doesn’t seem that long ago, they wanted and needed me to come along for this trip, whether Juana and I were getting along well or not. Now they really don’t need me, but just the same it is something I like to do with them. This year was different because my oldest son’s schedule allowed him to be there with us. For some years he has been going at a different time during the summer on his own.
I’m seeing more clearly now that this problem isn’t going away any time soon. Things happened differently the past few years when it went well for me. At least I haven’t escalated it into a bad fight between us, but I am not at all doing well.
Phil: I know just from my own experience how that feels. I don’t know if your wife is a Primal person, but I gather she isn’t. I am in a similar position. However over the period of my therapy I have found a way out of the predicament for myself. I am not suggesting that it would work for you, but it might be interesting to read how I cope.
In the past we’d get into a spiraling confrontation that settled nothing for either of us, and would often result in not speaking for a day, maybe even two. Then I would climb down until the next time.
What I do now is have my feelings about it, but out of ear shot of him. On one occasion I even had to take a motel for the night to resolve it. On returning, I discovered that he’d been concerned of where I was and why I did come home to sleep. He still was not able to climb down … I had to do that.
I do find now that just taking a walk I get get to my feeling, express it and then come back. It’s not a perfect solution and I do know that for the most part, it goes into old feeling about my father. Strange (or perhaps not) that I always seem to team up with someone like my dad.
Jack, I’ve done well by not escalating it with arguments. I didn’t do it in Spain while on vacation, and it wouldn’t have worked anyway, as she doesn’t really need me over there with all her family and friends around. It would have made things worse as happened another year. I haven’t escalated it here either. I have been doing as you say, trying to have my feelings on my own. No, Juana isn’t a primal person. We had one discussion about it and it wasn’t bad, but didn’t relieve the feelings I’m going through.
We’ve been through some very rough times in our marriage over the years; sometimes hardly talking for weeks or even months, but It hasn’t happened in recent years.
If we get into a heated discussion she will bring up all kinds of stuff from years past, that I’m done with, and it’s not at all constructive. It may be unavoidable, we’ll see.
Right now she can tell that I’m very angry and upset but not expressing much of it towards her. The truth is I feel like punishing her by giving her the same treatment she gave me in Spain, but, of course, that’s not a good strategy. It’s also what I did with my mother, maybe to defend and protect myself. It feels like I’ve been treated badly, abused, intentionally. That’s because of the old feelings triggered, so i have to be careful and not let it get out of hand.
Phil: I agree with both Sylvia and Larry in that you have already started the process to resolve some, or even all of this, by writing about it on the blog. Your difficulties about all this is very understandable.
Good luck with it.
Jack, thanks for what you say. It has been helpful writing about this issue here
This matter with Patrick is to do with a old bank deposit box which he had forgotten about. In order to reclaim it he needs your signature as well as his, I can only assume to confirm his ownership. I can’t say I fully understand it.
Can I take you out to lunch one day? It would be great to see you before you embark on leave for Holland and give you a chance to look over what this is and see if it is something you are willing to do.
Tim: This seems even more weird. Why in the world is my signature needed for Patrick to reclaim a deposit box. If what is required for someone to ‘verify’ that Patrick Griffin is Patrick Griffin; wouldn’t a driving license ID be sufficient OR could YOU not verify he is who he says he is. The bank should not need anyone to verify his ID as they usually have other information like birthdates and the city where is mother and/or father was born; which is what happens with my bank.
This all seems a little out of place on this blog … if you don’t mind me saying so. My email address is:- email@example.com. I would prefer it if we continue a dialog to do it that way. TYIA.
I also find it strange, since we were never close in anyway, that you’d like to see me and take me out for lunch.
Why don’t we just abolish money and be done with these onerous verification processes?
Guru: What the fuck are you talking about???????
If I were able to abolish money I would have done it long ago. The abolition of money has (by definition) to be a collective desire: then how to implimentation it, worked out in a collective manner, No-one person IMO can do that.
Trouble is: I doubt you’ll understand my response and will have some other ‘obtuse’ response if you decide to offer one.
Not sure why verifications are onerous and/or why you think I should “be done with them”. Sounds like a feeling in there for you Guru.
You made it a point to tell me that abolishing money would solve everything when I complained about Judge Judy, so I turned it around back to you with the bank verification requirements. (If money is abolished, why have banks?)
No!!!! I made the point that 95% of our problems would evaporate. (cease to exist) No need for police, militaries, governments, law makers, national borders, and yes banks, and a whole set of other things, we assume we need. Our actual needs are simple … untill we wrap ourselves into a box. A box called neurosis. I know you don’t like that word and assume YOU Guru are not neurotic … but fail to explain why you did this therapy in the first place.
The other remaining 5% would be manageable; even by little childrem. BUT, and it’s a big “but” (not the one on our rear ends) it necessitates we think outside of that box. Something I fear, most are unwilling to do. Go figured … if you will.
these are big painful feelings for you being triggered.
it must be very hard to have all the old and present anger bottled up, which probably needs to come out as well as the tears.
hope you find a way to do so, in bits and pieces, as it must be a lot to deal with.
probably a very good idea to have a session.
Phil, I would feel left out too under those circumstances, like arriving late to the party of old friends when you are the newest member. As Margaret stated, the present is also wrapped up with the past, so it is more hurtful when it brings that past up. Maybe as you deal with it in your sessions and it bothers you less you will have a more pleasant time. Next year you can take a project with you while all the friends are chatting. Photography might be interesting, or anything you’d like to do as a hobby.
Also maybe a pair of ear plugs packed for snores.
Phil, it looks like your session has already begun–all these feelings you are bringing up, whether they lead to earlier ones or not are important by themselves, I think.
Phil – as hard as it is I think it is great you are venting all you need to re your vacation. Those days are so precious – especially since your work situation is not as stimulating as you wish.
By exposing your reality of the trip and yes some helpful guidance from Barry/Gretchen I hope you and then you and your wife can hear each other.
I had to listen to B. earlier on in our marriage when I got so caught up in my big, loud family’s dynamics when we got together for dinners etc.- that Barry felt ignored and left out… I think we now have more of a compromise where we are each more aware and accepting – but it took lots of honesty.
Having the 2 of us together in every way is a definite priority on any trip.
I hate losing any time that we do when we feel adrift and cannot imagine going for so long.
Good luck with the feelings you are uncovering.
I missed seeing you at the retreat this year. Thanks for these helpful comments. Juana doesn’t really need me on these trips to visit her family in Spain. There is a very strong tradition of my sons going too, even now that they are grown up. So I do hate the idea that I have to exclude myself.
It has been helpful to vent here and I did some more by phone earlier. I’d like to get through this without too much damage being done, but also fixing the problem.
If you’re feeling really down about social exclusion, it might be worth considering how many social outings this poor guy missed: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4778728/Idaho-man-massive-facial-tumor-seeks-help.html
I am alone here tonight so it’s been a good opportunity to let some feelings come up, and that’s what happened. My wife is not always very sensitive to my needs; she’s just not a very sensitive and aware person, a lot of times. That was kind of the theme tonight; because that was my history,
people not seeing me, not seeing what I was going through, and what I need. One of Juana’s cousins, someone I didn’t see much of during my vacation, but someone I know, seemed sensitive and perceptive to my plight, at least it seemed that way to me. I’ve had that feeling about her other years too. That’s what I needed and didn’t have in my childhood
It probably would have been too much for me to have someone like that as a partner, to see all the pain I have, and carry around all the time, maybe forcing me to better hide it. Instead I have someone who can’t see me fully, and we can sometimes have a poor relationship, and that has often happened, or I can try harder to show myself and what I need, and improve things, like about this vacation problem.
The truth is, it easy to be around people who are insensitive and unaware, but it’s lonely.
Phil, it looks like you have a clear sense of what’s going on, a good observation of the situation. A turning point or a mulling over point at the very least. It seems you are requiring now more attentiveness and less hiding. So that is progress, I think.
It feels to me like you are having an important, sad insight Phil.
Hi Phil, Don’t know if responses to an entry after it was posted about a month ago will reach you but I was just trying to catch up after not having read the blog for about a month. Your last sentence about it being easy to be around people who are insensitive and unaware was so …….I don’t know …True. I don’t remember anyone ever having mentioned this before.
True for me at least. Sad but true.
Your words are short and simple but expound this common phenomenon exquisitely, the reality of which saddens me.. I don’t remember anyone ever having mentioned this before. You continue to bring a unique perspective to this venue as do all of the participants here. Linda
Wow. Catching up on a month of the blog. That’s a lot of reading to do. I hope it’s worth it. I guess it would be sort of like binge watching a TV series.
It’s certainly been a pattern for me, and why it’s so good for me to go to retreats and come on the blog. Thanks for your comment.
phil, i did not get a ;lot of attention when i was a child. i craved attention from teachers, so i studied hard to be noticed by them. if my grandma was home, she would invariably have her back to me while she was doing dishes or some other chore. hearing the vacuum going must have been a thrill for me, as it meant that i was not alone in our house, as i often was left alone. it is hard to tell if you exist in that kind of life. i still ask myself at least once a week, am i alive? well 41 years of marriage yesterday. the wife got to listen to me bitch and moan as we took a little trip to santa monica 3rd st promenade. do you know how old married people have sex? they pass by in the hall and say fuck you to each other. at least that is what my missing joke book said. you can see that i am a real romantic. good luck with that big pain, Phil.
have a lingering feeling of gloom, feels paralyzing.
variable weather, postal services still did not deliver any audio books or the digital version of my new course.
feel down and unpleasantly vaguely sad, no focus.
today it is mother’s day here, will go there with sister, have a nice book with short cat stories and lots of huge pictures, know mom likes it as she saw one I gave my brother and she was immediately into it.
finished the very last books I had to read, not very good ones, but stil now completely without is worse.
did find a good ap which is able to read any kind of text in front of it, has all kind of options I still need to find out about.
first time I bought and installed something , using siri and then within a few minutes it all worked, which was great to find out.
part of feeling is not feeling up to life, the world, needing someone to look after me, make sure I don’t get cold, specially, for some reason, and am safe..
mmm, choking up a bit, feel so alone and kind of scared..
sad too of course.
dreamed about all kind of big felines which had escaped , me on my own with them in huge building, they were beautiful but also frightening, managed not to get eaten but by end of dream situation still very unsafe..
hopelessness there as well, me on my own, they stronger and faster, me needing food and shelter etc.
feel tension in shoulders and neck, on moments like this thoughts about codeine pass by, but still going without, they would be a good temporary band aid but hurt me in the long run.
no other option than to keep moving despite sadness and fear and feeling of doom and gloom…
and no comments from the blog either these days, to brighten up life a bit.
to my relief I notice how the simple physical activities of doing the routine chores , cleaning litter box, feeding cats, making bed etc., make me feel slightly better, breaking through the paralyzing hopelessness with the simple satisfaction of getting things done, and feeling my body starting to function better while I do, mind coming to reasonable rest.
the main difficulty is starting while feeling not up to anything I guess…
but not doing so is worse after a while, smiley, so there is faint hope anyway…
my mom was thrilled with the book with little cat stories, full of pictures, for her mother’s day.
she has been reading out loud from it for me, and laughed out loud with some funny parts, so it felt so good to have bought a good gift for her!
solved a few other problems as well, the paperwork for her hearing aid is finally settled, and with a new ap I bought I could read the letter about it we got, am very pleased with that app.
tomorrow full day with three social appointments, which is good for me, sometimes exhausting but better than being bored!
Margaret, That’s great that the gift for your mom was such a success. Sounds like an interesting dream you had; about large cats that could possible eat you, considering you’re a cat lover. I hope your course material arrives soon and that you enjoy your busy day tomorrow.
Phil and Margaret: I remember when I was once on an ‘Acid Trip’, in my Ibiza days; looking at my cat and thinking ” ‘m very grateful to be bigger than you, otherwise you might eat me”.
Jack and Margaret, I’m glad my half tame cats aren’t bigger than me too, as they have that instinct to kill and eat. The 2 little kitties, about 9 or 10 weeks old I’m taming would not go near my face for a long time because, I think, of their instinct of the fear they could be eaten by me, a bigger animal. Now they nuzzle my nose and I try to wear glasses or keep my eyes closed as they are curious about my big eyes when they are near my face.
I would not have been in tuned with their instincts a couple of years ago. Am thankful to primal sensitivity for that through the work of feeling.
Sylvia, I once had a roommate’s cat sleep in front of my face, I knew she was there by the loud purring. When I opened my eyes, she didn’t move, but when my eyes changed focus, she suddenly tried to swat as she saw my pupils change size! That was it — I made her get away from my face in the night, too dangerous!
Vicki and Sylvia,
there is also the cat signal that straight staring is a threat, you always have to blink a few times, if you blink slowly when looking at them, they will probably blink back and that is a signal of we are friends, no bad intentions or terrritory struggles!
specially when wearing glasses it even gains importance in many cases.
So true, Margaret about the direct eye contact. At the beginning If I even looked at the feral kittens when I was sitting down next to their plate of food they ran away. I still try to sit with the 2 wild ones that are with their mom, and I don’t look at them while they are eating but they look up at me to make sure I’m not looking at them. After they are done eating they will allow me to play with them a bit with a stick, grabbing it with their paws. I just briefly make eye contact. Also the 2 of that litter being tamed on the porch now allow eye contact.
I know small kittens will also blink and finally close their eyes when they are relaxed.
I will blink more with the wild kitties now that I know to.
One of the wild kittens, the male, comes in the yard to play with his tame sisters for a few minutes, but the little female is too scared to come in if I am there.
This must be cat season. For years there was only one kitty we took care of. Oh well. Good neighbor has offered to help with the spaying bill when I can trap the mom.
Margaret, you asked whether the kittens got along with the grown cats–well the older ones hiss at them, but there is not a lot of contact between them yet.
And so goes the kitty saga.
I feel, due to the resent event in Charlottesville, that there is a great deal of misinforemation. The most eggregiaous from Donald Trump himself: a person not elected by the “PEOPLE”, but by a a flawed clause IMO, in the Constitutuion that created (among other things) an “electoral collage”.
However I digress. What I want to write about is the nature of HATE. Hate is a legitiamte feeling … what is egregious is how that feeling of hate is expressed. Permit me state why. A little child telling a parent “I hate you” is what that child instictively feels. In stating it’s feeling it has expressed it.
The so called ‘hate’ groups are merely trying to express their hate which is mostly an old, old feeling. BUT they little realize it. What they do in the present is express it by acting-out that feeling, and NOT by the deeper and more apparopriate expression. That act-out goes on for a lifetime. Where it to be truely and simply expressed, then the valance of the feeling would slowly demish. Probably never totally dissapating, mearly the valance of the feeling.
Back to the present: trying to prevent ‘Hate’ is forlorn. It has it roots too early in life, that most of us are unaware/unconscious of.
Protesting: I remember in my 20’s in London where there was a protest march against neuclear weapons that was done peacefully. The current Prime Minister applauded the peacefulness of the protest … then did nothing about it. There-in is the beginning of protesters making a bigger protest to prevent the government from ignoring it. Domocratic government are very aware that they need consensus; else they’ll lose credibility.
Is there a way out of this “madness”. Yes!!! but it requires some very deep thinking and understanding of the causes and manifestations of “neurosis”.
Jack, I think the evil-protesters that came to act out their violence maybe get some relief for the time being. But as you say the problem goes deeper. There are probably many layers of hurt underneath the anger. Some of those guys look like they have been smacked around by their dads. I shudder to think of them having children themselves.
Is there something going on in Charlottesville? Is the news media steering hundreds of millions of sheep to focus on this area for some reason?
Guru, I think that Trump’s response in giving legitimacy to other crazy people who feel they have someone who seemingly understands them is another level of this event. It is showing everyone that this leader has no depth in his thinking. He is exposing himself as someone whose brain has gone to seed. It is an event in history of the super right getting a foothold through their organization from internet communication. And it shows how we, as a country are becoming more divided in our ideas and purpose.
The news has been reporting on the different aspects of Charlottesville. Baa.
Trump who? Even though he chronically understates his abilities, my dad is a life master at bridge and I thought I once heard him mention trump suits in the game. Maybe that’s what you meant?
Guru: Answer you own question and then post it. You almost never ell us what you feel.
Jack: Ah, but Guru does “ell” us what he feels.You just don’t seem to have developed a sensitive enough ear to be able to hear it. Linda
true as this may be, why do more haters seem to be white and come from southern and/or rural areas in this country? Is that an illusion or is it because of worse parenting skills in those areas? Or is it historical hate passed on from one generation to the next?
Phil: It’s because all the country’s money is in New York and California.
Guru, In that case why don’t you move closer to where the money is? I’m guessing you’re not in New York or California. You can add Washington, there’s some money there too. But I haven’t heard any hate coming from you, why is that?
Phil, you asked a very good question there. It’s just that my answers could spark controversy and I’m not feeling up to a long, emotionally-involved discussion with very little to no upside for myself. It’s just not worth it.
Guru, I think you should go ahead and spark some controversy. Look at Trump; he has said some more stuff today and it’s getting heavy coverage by the media.
LOL, I say this as a complete non-racist because I have hung out with more non-whites than most people. I even had close relationships with a couple of Jews (away from the Institute). Yet…this one tragic death aside, all this racism and hatred talk is just a bullshit distraction from what really matters: economic issues.
Trump and the republicans don’t give a damn whether the public hates them for perceived racist views. All they care about is keeping the public’s eye off the economic ball by delaying any progressive economic agenda and fostering further wealth inequality by any means possible.
Figuratively speaking as an analogy to this situation, it’s easier for me to rob you blind while you are distracted and mad at me for calling your sister an ugly slut.
I’m fine with all public statues coming down except for those in museums with artistic value. The Washington Monument would be a big one to take down, but they could just rename it, since it looks nothing like him anyway. I don’t think we should be worshiping historical figures in this way, none of them were perfect.
Trump was good at getting some votes to be elected but otherwise he has no leadership abilities. It looks like very little will get done while he’s in office, so it could be worse.
Phil: The demographics in this country are already heavily slanted against Republicans and will continue to be this way in the decades ahead. By getting nothing done in Congress, it’s actually a victory for Republicans because it prevents what would have otherwise been a more progressive agenda under Hillary. The actual victory for Republicans is buying more time under the status quo. The desperation to keep the status quo just a little longer is evidenced by the stealing of Merrick Garland’s SCOTUS seat for Neil Gorsuch to keep things the same way as they were under Antonin Scalia.
Guru: for once I mostly agree with you, with respect to this comment. The Republicans rig the system.
However: in your earlier comment of not wanting to go into the question Phil asked; is an example of your “escape hatch’ as I see it. You’ve done this so many times.
Hear, hear !! Linda
Phil: I am not totally sure I understand your question. However, I will give it a shot and stand to be corrected, if I got it/you wrong.
In reality I do not know, but from my own background I would suggest that those original colonials that occupied this country, grabbing land and fencing it off, then buying slaves to do all the hard work and they, the land ‘stealers’ becoming rich from it. Like everyone with money; feel the need to keep it OR better still, make even more. They left the motherland because of the appalling conditions where they were born. Now they able to see themselves an the new ‘aristocracy’, but their background remained intact.
Once slavery was abolished, they were incensed. They felt that the ex slaves would begin to take over all they felt was theirs. From there-on-in (in spite of the national mantra that we were all made EQUAL in the eyes of god) they needed to find any and all the reasons they could muster for their own superiority. That reason has been developed to the point we now see happening; little realizing that in the whole of Africa, that was also colonized. The blacks are still in the majority, and … so far the blacks have not decimated the whites now living comfortable lives in Africa. It is my contention, that the many that hated seeing a black man in the White House did their best to disparage him … even to this day, when he’s out of political office.
We’ve even seen one person on this blog behaving, IMO in a very similar manner. It’s colloquially called “SPIN”. Donald Trump, as I see him does even try to spin … he just outright lies, and hopes he is believed.
You are describing here a kind of hate that has it’s origins in adulthood and not in early life.
Slave owners were incensed when slavery was abolished and their property was liberated.
Are you saying that was traumatic for them? To the point that generations later that hate is still passed on by indoctrination, or poor parenting? Northern states also had slavery but it was abolished much earlier by peaceful means. Other countries such as Brazil and Cuba also had economies based on slavery but I wonder if they also experience this problem of never ending racism.
Phil: It is my very long considered opinion that all hate stems from a deeper feeling (now repressed).
To hate so vehemently cannot be otherwise from both my experience of my own hate, and well thought through opinion.
I agree that this kind of hate has deep origins. I guess what can happen is that it’s so disconnected from the source that it can attach itself to something else, like racism or white supremacism. A cause of confusion because it looks like some kind of social movement, and maybe it partly is. Also involved, of course, has to be how parents and other family members pass ideas on to their children.
All that I agree with Phil. My point was that addressing the “hate” and haters directly, does not resolve anything until and unless the underlying motivations are revealed.
Of course, in order for that to happen would at minimum require understanding Primal Theory.
Interesting op ed piece in the LA Times today suggesting that the prevention from assembling and free speach, in that assembly should, by nature of the constitution, allowed . Even protest marching be permitted . Should there be a counter protest; then it’s incumbent on the Law enforcement authorities, to keep the parties separated.. That is the essence of the piece.
For and to me, it is the acting-out that hate that is the real problem, especially violent act-outs.
I think that to be a slave owner, to assuage your conscience you have to convince yourself that your slaves are sub-human and as their owner you are far superior to them and you have every right to treat them as animals and you deserve the wealth, success and social position you accrue from their hard labour. Generations after the abolition of slavery, descendants of slave owners need to believe that their ancestors were great and their family lineage superior to the subhuman former slaves. To see otherwise and to view his victim as a human being like himself.would inflict a psychic wound in the oppressor
In a similar vein, in northern communities where there was no practice of slavery, people feel proud of their ancestors who settled this land and worked hard to make a nation out of nothing. No one wants to appreciate or feel ashamed over how our ancestors treated indigenous people as sub-humans, kicked them out of their homes, took away their land, killed them or herded them into out of the way enclaves, and in general treated them as inferior to ourselves. We want to think of ourselves and our settler ancestors as moral and good, so we need to blame indigenous people for their inability to solve their problems and rise out of their poverty and broken lives. We don’t want to feel that it is our culture and our amorality that broke them.
We want our privilege and to feel good about ourselves, and to keep it and mollify our conscience we need to believe that those we took if from are de facto inferior to us and stand in the way of progress. If they try to be human and stand up for themselves, it threatens who we feel we are (especially if we are already struggling with a feeling of being oppressed, downtrodden losers), so we need to keep them down, in their place…….or that is how I have come to make sense of it.
Larry: that is almost exactly how I see it.
We use language and it’s idioms to suit our desires and feelings. It takes unconditional love for us in early childhood, to see and empathize with others, later in life.
If we are unable to give it, that signifies to me … we never got it.
sylvia, do you want some more feral kittens? there are some at my job. what do you use to trap them. or do you know of any feral organization in west los angeles?
Otto; no thank you to more feral kittens. I just caught one 2 days ago and have him/her in a cage. Had seen it the night before running across the street with another one and thought it could have been a squirrel it was so fast and zig zaggy. This one had come to the gate crying for about a half an hour. It was attracted by my grown cat in the yard. I had heard cat fight earlier but did not see the mom. I put a cage with a towel over it by the gate and put a saucer of food in it and kitten went in and I closed the door. It looks about 7 weeks old. It’s furry but skinny.
For bigger cats I use a trap I bought on amazon–it is for big cats and even raccoons, I think. You can bait the trap with food and leave it open so they get used to eating in it. You can put the food in a bowl and put that bowl in a plate of water so ants can’t get to it.
I don’t know what L.A. offers in feral trapping but they might have traps you can borrow.
I meant the animal shelter or vets might have loaner traps.
Do you remember what the trap was called? I would like to get one.
It’s called Havahart Woodstream 1079 32″ live animal cage trap. The little gray cat is now about 6 months old. I raised him with 2 other feral kittens. He shows affection by biting. Maybe he will calm down when neutered. This trap is strong. I even got the papa feral cat trapped and neutered. He tried to tear the trap up to get out but it held. He is now friendly toward me because I doctored his ear for a few weeks for a bad case of ear mites. He doesn’t yet know he is neutered–even though it’s been several weeks ago he still picks fights with the neighboring tomcat. And all the other cats here, except for the kittens he sired and his former mate are afraid of him. Oh well.
I love the kitty saga.
wish they could all find a happy safe life!
Experts keep saying that demographics are against the republican party, but I think that’s exaggerated. Republicans keep winning elections and now have dominance at the state and federal levels. Democrats might have a coming demographic advantage but only if those people were to live in the right places and then go out and vote. It’s hard for me to understand people not voting.
Phil: It shouldn’t be hard to see why people don’t vote.
The saying goes “Whoever you vote for, the government will get in” Suggesting IMO, that maybe being governed (being controlled by legislators) is not what they want.
However, I also feel they don’t quite know exactly what they want … only what they don’t want.
I feel it only when we’ve gone back and relived our childhood’s, are we able to truly know what we (deep down) want.
Another terrorist attack today, this time in Spain. What an awful story.
Phil: Yes it’s quite frightening. BUT, as I see it; it’s the unintended consequences of the political system we live under.
I think everyone knows my view as to the way out of this “BOX”.
it is indeed sad, what happened in Barcelona and Cambrils.
for me it even affects me on another level as I felt the rambla of Barcelona was a fine example of the Spanish art of living.
also it seems the terrorists prepared more attacks in a small village, where there was an accidental explosion in a house, and 20 gas bottles were discovered, and preparative tools for explosive devices.
a group of 150 Belgian teenagers was just visiting the Ramblas on the day of the attack, but they could all escape, one other belgian woman was killed.
so crazy and senseless, all that inflicted pain and terror.
it is all happening in the Spanish area where I lived for 8 years, an area with so many peaceful and beautiful memories.
phew, after I finally received the cd with my new course, and tried to open it on the cd drive of my ancient Windows desktop, I discovered it was too recent a version of Windows to be able to open it…
spent almost an hour with trying to dowload a compatibility program, which would not work as the company where I purshased my Windows version more than 15 years ago, did not exist anymore.
tried to find out about ways to convert the folder with its files on the cd. to no avail.
then spent about two hours, giving up on it and restarting several times, to find ways to copy the file on the cd into my documents on the desktop, to then try and attach the file and mail it to myself as to get it onto my Appple laptop…
took ages and lots of frustration, missed attempts but hey, finally, finally got the right file attached and sent to myself, was able to save it onto my laptop and there to convert it into a Texteditor file, of about 500 pages…
so hurray hurray, feel very pleased with myself after all that effort and frustration , for finding a roundabout way to be able to work with it anyway, ha!
had a busy week, apart from usual practical stuff had lunch with girlfriend, went line dancing, and yesterday tango dancing, visited mom and heard later on from her boyfriend she is thrilled with the book with cat stories and pictures, she kept reading from it to him and lauging with the stories.
tomorrow will go to her again, this time with my brother.
also recieved 6 audio books from the library, so things are getting better…
now need to spiral down from high stress level to a calmer level bit by bit, as it really was a huge struggle this afternoon to get an accessible version of my new course…
but I do notice how being able to deal with all the challenges this week seems to be making me feel stronger and more up to things.
also physically all the dancing and the walking all over town to get paper work done with some assistance is making me more fit, which is very welcome for my sailing week which is coming up closer.
also sorted out some serious problems with my gmail account, a recurring trouble, but well, dealt with as well, hurray.
might change to an iCloud e-mail adress as to get rid of all hassles, at least that is what I have been told…
grey hairs must be starting to appear more and more with all the virtual complications of life…
triggers and other stuff. watching the longest day. seeing a quick passionate kiss onto the french resistance lady’s neck from her man, as they are clamboring up the ladder with their rifles to aid in the Allies’ imminent invasion of France makes me teary, but i wont let myself go to the feeling, since i am on hiatus from pt. feeling schmeeling? have to work myself to death to hang on. whatever. that passionate quick kiss was the fastest sex there ever was. maybe the last sex ever for the French man and woman as they rush to their possible deaths. not sure why this makes me teary. maybe because of how quickly life can end. maybe it was a well-acted and well-directed scene. maybe there was music, which usually can turn on my old feelings. was this my mom heading to her doom?
talked to a black friend while i was at work today. maybe i should not say black, but i do think there is a slight difference between blacks and whites. for example, you don’t see a lot of asians or blacks at the pi. probably not for lack of money. but that is besides the point. he was going on about personal responsibility, how his siblings had all gone to drugs and/or jail, and he hadn’t. his mom had died when he was 14, and had taught he and his brothers morals before she died. my friend said his dad was an asshole to his kids, but my friend was the only one to survive that bad parenting. i told him there must be a reason. well that is all i am going to say. take a nap. z got her tooth pulled yesterday and she seems ok. anyway. there must be a reason. i came up with a tiny idea while driving home from work. maybe his older brothers had known their mother longer, they were thus closer to her than my friend. maybe they felt the loss greater than he, because of the longer time they knew her. or a hundreds other reasons. triggers, or rolls of the dice, that takes us on one path, rather than the other. whatever. it was just interesting to think about. i feel sorry for my brother, who was about 3 when my mom got sick. i think he really got whacked by that loss, and his brain was in a different growing stage than mine. well i just cant figure this shit out. that is part of my old feeling. what the fuck is this shit we call life. what is this shit that i call my life.
Otto: You did raise a lot of interesting (more like fascinating) points here, but I’m just going to address the very first part because it’s the simplest to me. You said you hesitated to call your friend “black”. Would you feel offended if he referred to you as “white”? Personally, I would shrug.
I was reading my free Sunday newsletter from ‘Brain Pickings’ (I believe was first mentioned here by Daniel). In it this week is a reference to writer James Baldwin. He wrote a mid 60’s interesting article in Life Magazine. You can find the source by googling Brain Pickings and scrolling down to the photo of Baldwin over the caption: the terror within and (the evil without.)
The article is titled: “The doom and glory of knowing who you are and what you are”
“It has always been much easier (because it is much safer) to give a name to the evil without than to locate the terror within. And yet, the terror within is far truer and far more powerful than any of our labels: the labels change, the terror is constant. And this terror has something to do with the gap between the self one invents–the self one takes oneself as being, which is, however, and by definition, a provisional self–and the undiscoverable self which always has the power to blow the provisional self to bits.”
I thought this decades old article was timely in today’s chaos. If only those angry protesters had inner vision. I also thought the article reminded me of the urge to self-sabotage, something I am glad is falling away for me.
Sylvia: I agree with most of what you wrote in this last comment Sylvia. I like the way you framed it with “And yet, the terror within is far truer and far more powerful than any of our labels: the labels change, the terror is constant. ” and “by definition, a provisional self–and the undiscoverable self which always has the power to blow the provisional self to bits.”
Good to see you write “I also thought the article reminded me of the urge to self-sabotage, something I am glad is falling away for me. ”
Hi, Jack. I think James Baldwin’s words seem very primal. I would disagree about the origin of terror as he puts it, I’ll paraphrase: ‘it lies between the gap of who we are and who we think we are.’ We know from primal therapy exactly where that fear and terror comes from–what we experienced as babies and children from a traumatic birth or gestation and maybe later a raging parent.
Only the last paragraph in the previous post is mine. Baldwin did seem like someone before his time. Thanks for reading, Jack.
still watching the longest day after sweating in the heat, cutting down tree branches to appease the fire department and/or landlord. french girl again. i dont know why it brings up a feeling watching her in danger. could i have sensed my mom in danger, when she was just infected with the polio virus? some dogs can sense their human’s sickness. a baby who is around their mom all the time might sense subtle changes. or maybe i heard the commotion everyone was making when she had to go to the hospital. anyway, can’t feel it now, or maybe ever. my life is not very free these days.
Thanks for that Sylvia! I already really like the James Baldwin quotes you chose and will read the article soon!
i guess i watch war movies because of the certain death involved. so sad. so sad that we people listen to insane leaders still. very sad. i wish i would cry. too much death has been following me all my life.
I feel so grateful for a dream I had early morning, in which I apparently got in touch with some of my huge pool of sadness which is invading my life constantly, hand in hand with some old anxiety.
in the dream stuff i don’t remember happened, making me feel more and more misunderstood, and rejected. at some point a girl blamed me for something, adding I should also work on my handwriting which was hard to read. that hurt of course, added on top of all the rest, and I think I told her to try writing with her eyes closed, and I added the notes I wrote to her were actually meant to be helpful.
anyway, a bit later I was out in the dark, having to make my way somewhere, but suddenly could not make a step anymore as I broke down with such an intense sadness I sank down on the ground, roaring with hurt and grief.
i even remember how stil in the dream, the thought flashed through my mind it sounded like a big old feeling…
even while no tear was physically shed, it felt like some of the burden was partially lifted upon waking up, having had that feeling in the dream.
the blog is very silent lately, hope it is not another mail issue, I miss catching up on comments in the morning..
There are things happening in my life that I don’t feel safe to write about here but that bring up plenty of feelings. In general I will say that the buzz of retirement is wearing off, and I wistfully wish I was back at work when life seemed easier. Now each day I have to find the discipline to decide what to do and do it, and I am lonely. I’m meeting new people, but I miss the long time associations and rapport I had with the people who I worked with. I miss the sense of purpose, achievement, satisfaction and life-structure that work gave me. I feel way more alone in a deep sense than I did when I had the structure of work and the workplace to divert my mind from my life. I dither away way too much time on the internet. I expected all this could happen, and knew I would have to deal with it which is why I hesitated to retire at all. And then there are new health issues that arise as I get older, but I’d have to deal with those whether I was retired or not. All in all I’d say that retirement is posing a big challenge for me, baring me naked to my feelings of loneliness and insecurity, which I constantly have to confront now or be overwhelmed. I can see more and more how all my life I’ve been withdrawn inward to protect myself, but that made me cut off from people and alone, and now I need to step out in the open or be doomed to being alone surfing the internet for the rest of my (pitiful) life.
Larry, I hope you do step out into the open. Photography sounds like, as you’ve mentioned before, such an interesting and involved hobby. Wondered if you take classes for that. My brother used to shoot weddings. I haven’t kept up with him but know he always enjoyed the whole works of it. He used to develop the black and white picts he took and dreamed of getting published in some photo magazine. Think he probably would have enjoyed the ego part of that.
I hope you pursue the social aspect of your life. Many women would just like a decent guy to talk to. I was watching “The Last Picture Show” that’s been playing on tv this week. There is a line in it that really struck me, where Ellen Burstyn’s character in speaking fondly about an old love says, ” It’s a rare thing to have someone once in your life who really knows your value.” I guess we all want that.
Anyway, just keep trying and have fun.
We are all getting older with our health problems, aren’t we.
Hi Everyone: The sparrows are about to fly off to their new nesting ground today. Will be back to let you know when we’ve landed.
Sad in some respect leaving LA, maily seeing friends, AND trpidation still abound about what it’ll be like over there, BUT this is it … Good bye LA and all my freinds here. Will keep in touch via the blog.
Bye Jack. I look forward to hearing how you are settling in over there.
Larry: Thanks. I will still be blogging from over there as soon as I’ve gotten connected to the World Wide Web.
Correction: “mainly seeing friends”
you could have fooled me, that you do not like repetition.
same old verbal diarrhea if you ask me.
it is true having to organize one’s own activities does take more conscious effort, which is more difficult on some days than on others.
but I seem to become more aware of how old feelings often colour my perception with hopelessness, but that in reality I do quite well under difficult circumstances.
with the line and tango dancing, the sailing camp about to start, the gym classes starting up in september, my ongoing studies go actually much better than I ever expected, fine grades so far at every exam, while at the start I seriously counted with the option I would not succeed in overcoming the many practical hurdles after a few courses.
recently I managed to find solutions for some complicated computer problems and there is a lot I should be proud of really, and not ashamed as my old feelings sometimes risk to make me feel, but les and less often so.
my social life is not that bad lately, really, and I am as good as never bored, except sometimes that week when the postal office did not function properly and I ran out of study material and books to read.
but even then I kept managing to find useful and rewarding stuff to do.
there is a lot of pleasure coming out of the contacts with my family and friends, and delight from the company of my heartwarming and adorable cats who brighten up my days and make every day start with a smile and plenty of purrs.
so while still dealing with some old pain, and present hardships, my life is getting fuller and fuller and I feel stronger and healthier at this point.
my mom is doing so well, all the caretakers at her nursing home love her and say she is very caring towards the other patients.
there is one new grumpy lady on her ward, often sneering at my mom, who usually shrugs her shoulders, and yesterday it was both funny and heartwarming to see how while that woman sneered at my mom when we walked by for a short stroll through the garden, my mom on our way back in a few minutes later, walked up to that lady and started stroking her over the head. it must have been completely unexpected as the lady that time remained completely silent. that is when the nurses commented to us, as they often do, that my mom is very warm and caring, which of course I do agree with. despite her flaws in the past, she has many big qualities and I do love her dearly.
therapy has helped me so much to change from living on ‘automatic pilot’, driven by needs and pain and largely unaware of its causes, to being more in control, more balanced, a nicer person than I was, and more in touch and peace with myself.
therapy, the help of other patients and of course the therapists, has enriched and deepened my life big time.
also to develop myself instead of being auto destructive.
so Larry, knowing you a bit I feel confident you will also find many ways to fill your life with meaningful and rewarding activities and company, despite the recurring old painful feelings you have to deal with.
you have already reached a lot and will keep reaching more, hope you can enjoy the trip, which is what counts.
I always like your comments!
Thanks, Margaret. Good to hear your mom is doing well. Isn’t it something about dreams, that we can have feelings in them and kinda resolve some of our hurts. Your feeling that a burden was lifted probably means you got in touch and freed up something.
My dreams have been sort of vague lately.
You are a sweetheart. Love your comments too.
Jack, Barry and I will be thinking of you and hoping that your new home brings you so much happiness. Please let us know how you are as soon as you are able to get back on the blog!
The pictures I saw of your new home are great, it could not look any cozier ! Take care Jack and safe travels! You will be missed! Gretch
Gretchen & Barry: The sparrows have landed; not at the chalet, but at an apartment we’ve rented for one week, as an interim, while we buy furniture and all the ‘odd bods’ we could not ship over and/or take on the wings we flew over with. The apartment is in Nijegen, ‘Nincompupe’, as I call it cos I don’t know how to pronounce it in Dutch. This is a town some miles away from the village where the chalet is situated called Oosterhoud. It’;s Thursday early evening for us, but early morning for you.
I sat next to a woman on the plane, with an 18 month old baby that was adorable .. BUT what a lovely mother she was to that baby who was called Vivian. Wow!!! lucky little Vivian (
Meantime it is lovely that you are thinking about me and wishing me/us all the best for our new place we’ll be living in
So ……… LA is now history for me. In all likely hood.
Jack, so glad to hear that you made it to the apartment! I am looking forward to you getting more settled in to your apartment; I guess it’s partly selfish: I need my buddy!
The lovely story about little Vivian brought tears to my eyes; sounds like she is a lucky one indeed and I was about as unlucky s a baby could be.
Chris: You sure did have an u believably child-hood.
I will give you a number the minute I get connected to a phone, doubtless it’ll be a cell phone but apparently here, one does not pay for incoming calls … just out going.
The apartment is just interim until we move into the chalet , which hopefully is in 6 days time. This apartment is very badly designed for convenience, but only for a week at the most.
Hopefully will talk to you soon.
I’m glad to hear that so far, so good, Jack.
Larry: Thanks It’s just the first step in a process, the easiest one I feel. The settling in will start the moment we are in the chalet and furnished and getting to know and deal with the new surroundings.
You too are going through a similar situation Larry and hope it pans out soooooon for you.
Gretchen & Barry: The sparrows have landed; not at the chalet, but at an apartment we’ve rented for one week, as an interim, while we buy furniture and all the ‘odd bods’ we could not ship over and/or take on the wings we flew over with. The apartment is in Nijegen, ‘Nincompupe’, as I call it cos I don’t know how to pronounce it in Dutch. This is a town some miles away from the village where the chalet is situated called Oosterhoud. It’;s Thursday early evening for us, but early morning for you.
Tomorrow we will go over there to the chalet and I will see it for the fist time.
Sorry: this last one was cos I though the first time it was not sent
Sylvia, What do you do for Thanksgiving? Gretch
Gretchen, I usually go a few miles to my brother’s and eat veggies while they have turkey. Was that a veiled invitation to come be part of the group. If so, I feel like a bonafide primaller now.
Sylvia, Yes at the Thanksgiving retreat we put together a dinner and everyone brings something. There’s plenty of vegetarian fare by the way. I thought you could possibly come up for the dinner and we could all finally meet you! Let me know as we get closer to the date! Gretchen 🦃
Sylvia and Margaret, I’m touched by the support and encouragement in your respective replies to me. I’m especially struck by how human and wise you sound. You two are good people in my book.
Oh, I like that idea! Sylvia, I hope you may want to do it!
Yes – we all want you there Sylvia! It is actually a very easy – going, warm, friendly gathering of many different people from all over the world! An evening of laughter, gratitude, lovely connections – and oh yeah lots of delicious food!!
Hope to see you!
hope you will settle in nicely bit by bit!
Thanks Margret and yes, I’m now in your nick of the woods.
You made it! I hope everything works out for you over there.
Phil: Yep!!! us too. Will be blogging all the while meantime.
Congratulations Jack! Let’s hope that long trip is the worst of your move!
Wishing you fun and togetherness as you and Jim explore and discover your new homeland.
Leslie: Thanks!!! and thanks to everyone that wished me well.
I doubt the trip itself was the worst part. That was relatively easy. Made all the more delightful by Vivian and her mommy. It’s the next bit … re-adjusting that’s going to be the worst … as I feel it for now anywuz.
Thank you Vicki, Leslie and Gretchen for your warmth and welcoming. I don’t foresee getting free to come down in November right now. Sometime, though, I would like to see you all. I have explained to Gretchen some health issues I’ve been having and sometimes they consume most of my thoughts. Given my terror of doctors and dentists I wonder how I can bring myself to do what needs to be done. Any way it is an involved subject that I probably should be getting advice about.
I am touched by your wanting to get together. I think my mom’s bi-polar treatment of me makes any nice treatment now a surprise.
Jack, I wanted to say have a great adventure, and I suppose the only real difference is that you are in a different time zone now and can dream as comments gather here while you sleep.
Sylvia: Now there’s a thought. I will do it all in my dreams.TO YOU’S ALL: The chalet is absolutely gorgeous and, I feel I am going to be very happy there. The plot of land on which it stands, is also very lovely, with a swing couch and lots of garden that Jim will love. Beautiful trees all around the chalet overhanging it. Almost like being in a forest We met the previous owner, a very delightful woman with the guy she’s temporary staying with until she get her own house organized, There is only one bedroom, but we intend to build and extension for a second one. All the built in stuff, cupboards and shelves and clothing closet are all very good and in good condition. There were only three minor problems we found, after the former owner and her boy friend left, but they are fixable. I would (if I had my way) move in right now and sleep on the floor until the furniture arrives. The surrounding park in which it is situated “Tergouw” is also very pleasant. The little village for shops within walking distance with a supermarket is there and cafes and some small shops. For the bigger stuff we have to buy, we are going to have to come back to Nijnegen for all that, Fridge and washer and drier where the connections are already in there. So!!!! we’ve singed all the documents for our residency there and the management were quite nice and helpful Jet lag going away fast and that’s a good sign. I now feel we made a very good decision. Thanks for all your good wishes everyone. Jack
From: Primal Institute To: “firstname.lastname@example.org” Sent: Friday, August 25, 2017, 10:52:51 AM PDTSubject: [New comment] Letter to Barry by Shane Roberts page 3 Sylvia commented: “Thank you Vicki, Leslie and Gretchen for your warmth and welcoming. I don’t foresee getting free to come down in November right now. Sometime, though, I would like to see you all. I have explained to Gretchen some health issues I’ve been having and so” | |
Sounds wonderful Jack!!
And yes – sorry about forgetting your little Vivian ( love the name of course!!) & her mum! Not many people would be excited to sit beside an 18 mos old on a plane, on such a long flight especially! But there you have it – such a young, appreciative spirit you have Jack!
Sorry to hear you probably won’t make it to see us this time Sylvia. A ‘rain check’ is there for whenever it can work. Thankfully although never the same, the retreats continue and are always incredible! Thanks for touching on your terror. That must be so hard to maybe need some help – but having such trauma getting it. Is there anyone who could go with you to the Dr/Dentist?
Leslie: I was not sure what you meant with “sorry about forgetting your little Vivian “. I didn’t and doubt I will ever forget her. What it demostrated to me so, so, so adamantly what being fully and unconditionall loved should had in this DID give that little Vivian the chance to be the REAL little kid she was. If only if only we ……. !!!!
I doubt that few would not have been enchanted as I was with ‘Mom and Baby”.
I really liked it when you wrote “such a young, appreciative spirit you have Jack!”. Not totally true, BUT I will accept the compliment.
Sorry!! Leslie and guy: BUT the phrase should have been ” unconditionally loved should and DID, in this event, give that little Vivian”
it feels so good to hear you like the chalet and its surroundings so much!
and that it already feels like a good decision, I am very happy for the both of you.
it also gives me personally a little boost, as I feel very apprehensive on this early morning while having to get prepared to go to my sailing week.
a friend takes me there, and some other friend of her i don’t know rides along as they will stay over there somewhere for the weekend, and maybe go sail themselves.
but it feels kind of lonely to go there anyway, and be all by myself between people i don’t know, it will be fine I am sure, and less lonely than most of my life out here, but it did trigger a loneliness I felt in my dreams tonight as well, being on my own in a world of strangers.
but the last dream turned for the better as in that one i was reaching out and getting in touch with some friendly people.
after all, everyone is a stranger at first before becoming a friend, and everyone disappears at some point or another, which will always be sad..
life is a challenge with ups and downs, and fear should not hold me back, litttle sigh, little smile….
big sigh, time to go on with my preparations..
glad for you Jack, wil check out where it is you live more or less on the map…
Sylvia, I am very sorry to hear about your physical troubles, hope you can find a good treatment and get better soon without too many unpleasant medical experiences.
will miss my cats this week, but a nice lady will come by twice a day until i am bcd…
Margaret: Thanks and yes we’ve been there again,today Saturday and taken a few things that we brought over with us, but not really needed this week in the apartment.
So now we’re neighbors (or should it now be English English spelling and be ‘neighbours’????
If it’s easy and convenient you could come over and visit us.
Yep!!!!! everyone we initially meet, is a stranger:, then due to what is called “chemistry” (which I always thought of mixing compound together in laboratories) … some impress us or otherwise, and we start a relationship … not necessarily a romantic one.
Hope the cats don’t miss you too much BUT who knows … my psychology didn’t take me into studying the psyche of kittie cats.
I’m glad you like your new home.
Thanks for being so helpful.
Tim: Thanks for the “good wishes”. It’s a slow plod and bureaucracy is at it’s most in this nick of the woods, but I am dealing with it reasonably well (me thinks). Jim, on the other hand, is so frustrated and it’s taking a toll on him. I wish I could help him but he doesn’t go for anything related to Primal Therapy/ Theory. So that puts me in a bind, BUT it’s not then end of the world.
Dog (half Coyote/Retriever) adopts 10 baby chicks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0nQeZrvatA one chick is bold, one is less trusting. how does that work? was one egg kept warmer than the others? did one chick watch the demise of mother hen, and learned one of the terrible lessons of life? that’s right, life is so strange. too hot here to do anything except look at the internet. or take a nap. they have taken away my overtime and i will have to make adjustments. impossible adjustments. fuck life, tired of these dice rolls.
well here is the answer. some little boy, trying to help mom with the pets, put some ducks and geese on top of the mother hen. one of the eggs probably got jostled a bit. how will that chick turn out? that chick wasn’t even born yet. #HurricaneHarvey IN HOUSTON TX 5:30PM August 26 2017 SAVE all the BIRDS!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tsH-5_CibI
i am such a dud; lifeless dead man. i have no idea how my poor wife can stand to live with me. this is the kind of energy i was supposed to have. Emmylou Harris – I’m Movin’ On https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzTirzJsFM8 no chance at that. depressed most of my life. shit
it is just not going to change. too fucking late. even though my endocrinologist told me i could live another 60 years if i dropped 60 pounds.
just needed to say some things, that’s all…..
I hear you, anon. Otto. Looking at the 1984 Emmylou tap–isn’t she something; we probably all had more energy back then too. Hope you can get to the feelings you want to get to.
Liked those baby chicks and retriever dog earlier too.
cant get to that feeling. been out of action for too long.
nightmare last night very scary. impending doom. woken up out of a sound sleep by a loud thump (chills going down my back as i wrote that). it is dark and i am with some unseeable beings and we try to rush to the door to see what is going on and you can feel this scary being that is inside but can’t see him yet and we are unable to move forward and see him and i am screaming in my dream and most likely as i am sleeping. when i awoke i gave myself time to think and i figured out it was my uncle coming to murder me and the other pigeons in the pigeon coop, just grab us and take us outside and rip our heads off, and nothing we can do to escape. the trigger for this feeling was my dear wife slamming doors in the house around midnight, which she does frequently, as she is a night person, and i am a morning person and go to sleep before she does. anyway. this feeling is a major one that has resulted in me that i am afraid of all people and have little desire to hang out with them. this won’t go away, ever, although familiarity at work allows me to take care of customers, also pt and anti-depressant too. but put me at a retreat and i will isolate isolate isolate. and at work, walking down the halls, i won’t raise my head to look at people, unless i know them.
Otto, it does sound like your fear in the nightmare is related to the fear of what your uncle could do to you. Maybe little by little your fears will get less. I think fears have a beginning as terrors and I think it takes mucho re-visiting of them to get rid of their hold on us. Good connection on how it affects your fear of people.
You are a brave man Otto, to have to live with that. I hope that someday you are able to feel it little by little and its effect on you recedes.
thanks for the comment sylvia. i will have to wait a while longer before my fear-visiting shoes come back from wherever they have gone…..i really have zero desire to open myself to feelings anymore.
Yes, Otto, know what you mean. We can feel when the support is right. Feelings aren’t going anywhere, I think. Good to put them away for awhile. Hope you have some fun and a relaxing weekend.
I hope going to the Retreat is an option for you this time Otto.
I’ve told my family, and I’ve told some friends but not all of them yet. I’ve been debating whether to reveal it here. In July I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. With treatment it can be cured. I have to choose among treatment options. Whatever choice I make, there will be side effects that I dread. I’m being sucked into a reality that I don’t want, whose outcome I want to run from.
I have a little glimmer of hope that helps me feel a little bit in control. In May I transitioned to a ketogenic diet. It is a low glucose, high fat and oil diet. Cancer thrives on glucose. Theoretically the diet starves cancer. On the diet I feel I am doing the best I can to weaken the cancer. I intend to ask my doctor for the cancer to be further monitored before I undergo treatment, to see whether it might be in remission. Maybe I’m not facing reality, or maybe I am. One thing I appreciate is that as we age we suffer losses of all kinds one way or another as our life gradually fades. The goal is to make the most of a losing battle. I’d rather not have the treatment if I can avoid it, but I’d rather have the treatment than die of cancer in a few years.
I’ve been reading a book titled “A Disappearance in Damascus” by Deborah Campbell. It is described as a story of friendship and survival in the shadow of war, and is said to be a portal into the Syrian civil war. It is the true story about the relationship between a journalist and her ‘fixer’, revealing the lives of ordinary and extraordinary local Iraqi and Syrian citizens caught up in the US invasion of Iraq and leading up to the civil war in Syria. It is a portrayal of human beings helplessly enduring the breakdown of their societies, and the spread of the war, like a cancer. The book brought the tragedy of their lives much closer and more real to me than ever before. I broke down and cried feeling their helplessness against forces that were destroying their lives, then my feeling transitioned to the initial shock and helplessness I felt against deadly, powerful cancer that would destroy my life, and lastly transitioned to feeling the fear and vulnerability of being a child alone helpless against a powerful force (no love for me) destroying my life. It’s amazing how threads of the same feelings connect the book, my present, and my past life.
I’m grateful for this therapy. I so happen to have a colleague who I worked alongside 30 years ago who also was diagnosed with prostate cancer this summer. In commiseration/support he asked me recently whether I am depressed and was surprised when I said no. He asked me then whether I have difficulty sleeping and again paused in surprise when I said no, I sleep fine. Appreciating how much he must be suffering with anxiety, and wanting to help him, I offer that I cry off and on when I need to. This news distressed him and I imagined how he must imagine me breaking down. He replied that he thinks it is important to be stoic. In contrast to his worry and suffering, I am thankful for how much this therapy helps me to cope with the difficult feelings of life’s challenges. The cancer diagnosis hasn’t overwhelmed me. I am still able to go out and enjoy and make the most of my life. But at the back of my mind there is always the dread of treatment and its side effects, dread that I shield myself from with hope, probably unrealistic, that the cancer is in remission thanks to my new diet and I won’t have to undergo treatment. Asking my doctor soon to further monitor the cancer, before treatment, depending on the outcome will either bolster or shatter that hope.
Larry: what a shock it must have been Larry, to learn about that diagnosis. It tweaked my heart for all the time I was catching up on all the blog messages.
I too wonder sometime if the cure is worse than the disease.
However, I wish you as well as can be expected, and hope all the very best for you.
Larry, that’s a tough thing happening to you…I hope the diet helps.
So sorry to hear of your diagnosis Larry… Just situations and decisions I wish you didn’t have to endure.
However, have to agree that all your emotional investigation is really paying off now in so many ways.
Thank you for telling us, and let us know how you continue to do.
Larry, may I ask what stage of cancer you’re currently diagnosed at? My dad went through this exact situation 10 years ago. Luckily it was caught at an early stage where it was only just starting to spread to lymph nodes(?, not sure if correct area description). Everything was surgically removed and all is well now. You may need to use a catheter after surgery as he did. PSA tests will be extremely important now.
It’s definitely recoverable as my dad just turned 70 when it was discovered. It was a six-month ordeal for him from start to finish.
Apparently mine has been caught early enough Guru. At the time of diagnosis it hadn’t yet spread to other tissues as best as could be assessed then. I expect to survive, in one form or another, for the foreseeable future.
There may be environmental and genetic roots to the ailment. Growing up and helping on the farm we were naively and generously exposed to herbicides. My Dad and two of my three brothers were treated for prostate cancer. My brothers are still alive. My Dad survived 10 more years after treatment.
Larry: I find it very difficult to speculate on the root causes of various cancers. If we could truly reach the bottom of such matters, you and I could write groundbreaking materials solving a large swath of what ails the world from this very blog.
I should note that my dad has never been anywhere remotely close to herbicides or the agricultural community. He’s an ivory tower academic with plenty of casino visits, but such a lifestyle would make him more of a candidate for lung cancer from secondhand cigarette smoke from what I can tell. Ironically, he was a cigarette & cigar smoker for decades, yet the prostate was still his only cancerous area aside from a couple of wacky inner ear cancers he had in the 1970’s & 1990’s.
I do realize why you may have a strong drive to understand the mechanisms behind cancer because of what happened to Noreen. Totally understandable and you have my sympathies on that.
No I’m not saying I have a drive to understand the mechanisms. But I do try to satisfy my curiosity, wherever it rests. I’m inclined to accept that with age parts wear out and go awry. But even young children get cancers. Likely genetic propensities and environmental stresses contribute to some degree. Some recent research and thinking suggests that auto-immune and neurological diseases and cancers are due to metabolic failures, specifically a breakdown in the healthy functioning of the mitochondria. If I was a young medical researcher starting my career, I think that the metabolic theory of cancer would be an exciting albeit controversial, career making or breaking avenue to explore. But all that aside, we are each genetically and physiologically unique and so react in our unique way to life and to the health giving and the stress inducing inputs from our environment.
In a situation like having cancer where I am pretty helpless, I do feel a need to have some control in order to bolster hope, whether a lot or a little, even if I’m only kidding myself that I have any control. I have to trust in conventional treatments where the outcomes and risks are known, and I have (and need to have) hope that some new alternative co-strategies that I’ve recently learned about and that I can undertake, namely the keto diet, might help weaken the cancer.
Larry, that is tough news to bear. Prostate cancer runs in my family too. The herbicide Round-up has been recently implicated in cancer, though the complaints and lawsuits filed only include other cancers. My brother farmed for 30 yrs. using it. He had surgery about 8 yrs. ago for his cancer because his scores were rising steadily but has had normal psa tests since. I think there is a lot on the internet about the procedure and effects. He stays active and maintains normal weight. I’m always encouraging him to eat veggies.
I think you’re right, getting rid of old pain makes it a little easier to deal with current ones so you can function normally and see the nice things in life, and sleep well, nevertheless. Take care, Larry.
One thing I don’t understand about the herbicide/cancer angle is that herbicides are being used outdoors where everything is well-ventilated and any carcinogens would simply dissipate, wouldn’t they? Indoor air pollution (especially with smoking involved) would seem far more environmentally cancerous than outdoor airborne agents.
Guru, I think Larry could speak to this better than I. But I just want to say in the spraying there is a mist you can breathe very easily. It has also been found that the ingredients in round-up can cause erosion in the stomach lining. My dad always had ulcer pains in Sept. when he sprayed around the trees before harvest. He thought it was just every fall he would get ulcers, a cyclical thing, and I told him, seems like you get it when you spray. Now it has been proven what it does.
The cancer that farmers are suing for now is non-hodgkins lymphoma.
I have to concur with Sylvia’s comment, Guru, just because I had a cousin my age who worked at agricultural crop-dusting from airplanes as a young man, but by age 50 his liver was shot (and he wasn’t a drinker). Sam had to wait 10 yrs. for a transplant but was so weakened by the time he got it, that he didn’t make it. Our family believed it was all the chemicals — when they use them, they are up in the air, but there’s blow-back.
I am sorry to hear about the diagnosis of prostate cancer.
what I can share is what my last courses textbook said about it, there is a chance between 80 and 90 percent recovery when treated in the early stages.
the textbook also explicitly mentioned that the fear about an operation possibly causing metastases is entirely unnecessary as it is based on a wrong opinion having turned into a myth.
in some cases there can be lasting side effects but in most cases I think there are not, it is regarded as a very treatable kind of cancer.
but you probably know more about it than me, just felt like sharing what I have read about it.
good you spoke about it, you do sound as if you are doing all you need to do.
will be thinking of you.
Larry, That’s terrible, I’m very sorry to hear the news. Good though, that it’s been caught early.
My understanding is that prostate cancer can often be very slow progressing and in some cases it’s not recommended to treat it at all, especially for real old guys. It is a big advantage having primal as a tool for dealing with something this.
Unfortunately, prostate cancer is so very common and many of us men will get it if we live long enough.
Herbicides, pesticides, and other chemicals are stressors which increase the risk of cancer. Even in common household products. I feel a lot of these things shouldn’t even be available as people are fooled into thinking they are safe.
I w just about to share what’s going on with me when I saw Larry’s news. I’m glad you’ve shared that with us Larry, as you can get support. I hope everything works out well with that and I’ll be thinking of you.
I’ve still been struggling here because of what happened during my recent vacation. My wife and I are still relating poorly, and not really communicating. In recent days this situation has brought up a lot of old feelings on top of the usual stuff that keeps coming up. The big insight for me in these feelings is how there just was no one there for me, who I could count on during my childhood.
Today was eventful because I went for a drive to the beach and also visited my childhood town.
It wasn’t really a good beach day today, with temperatures in the 60’s and breezy.
I spent about two hours driving around my very small childhood town just to see how that would feel. It’s been a few years since I’ve gone there and it’s been rare that I’ve gone there in the last 30 or so years. I tried to hit all the significant places I remember including the house I grew up in, places where other family members and friends lived. Also the schools I went to, the ponds where we went ice skating, hills where we went sledding, where we played ball, etc. All of this triggered a lot of crying. That town was a great place to grow up, and/but I had such a hard time. But it has also always been the case for me that some good memories bring up so many sad feelings. Maybe I’ve had to repress the good along with the bad. As I see it now, I wish I could have it all back to do over, as I could have done much better.. The one place I didn’t go was the cemetery where both of my parents are buried. I wanted to, but it was getting too late and getting dark and it probably was closed for the day.
They were both from this town in Connecticut and lived almost their whole lives there. It almost feels to me that the entire town is their cemetery. The big feeling which came up is that
“I don’t want to leave you here”. I said that over and over.
It felt like they should come with me. Their story, the family’s story and mine is just so sad. It shouldn’t be like that, they shouldn’t be left there, I still need them it feels like, they should be with me, and there should be more to the story, some happiness, a happy ending and there wasn’t one. The feeling seemed to be also tied in with having to leave my mother in institutions which weren’t home, when she became very sick. I drove to that place too, but it seems to be gone., the nursing home maybe replaced by a school. Also tied in that my father became such a depressed person for so many years and I felt I had to leave him, and he really didn’t have anyone. All so very sad and painful, and a reminder today of why I couldn’t continue living in that area and had to leave.
A lot of grief about my parents and my childhood was what I felt today.as
Big feelings, Phil. So much in one day to feel. Guess you will be taking this tour in your mind for a while yet. Those parental, ‘I need you feelings,’ have surfaced in my dreams but not while awake. Good for you. Have a nice coming labor-less day.
Sylvia, thanks. The intensity of feelings that came up was unexpected. I’m glad to have the long weekend and hope you enjoy it too.
Sounds like exploring memory lane was beneficial for you Phil. All the credit to you for applying yourself to the emotional work involved.
Phil, it seems your visit was important in helping to put what you’re feeling into context, very painful and sad..It’s tough having the current marital communication difficulties on top of old pain pushing up.
Phil: I know that feeling; going back to ones home were I lived as a kid. The shock for me was just how much it had changed. Couldn’t decide if for the better or the worse.
I sometimes wonder if going back to places where there are good memories is a good thing. Times and places have weird effects on me.
Ibiza; where I spent the most glorious 10 years of my life; I just know, I must not eveer go back there and see it. I prefer to just stay with my lovely memories.
Hope you’re doing ok and for everyone else … now that I have read all the responses to date. Dunno when I’ll be back … but back I will be … all things “being equal” as the saying goes.
that is such a touching, very sad story.
it does sound as if it was a useful visit though to your childhood town.
i hope you will have many happy moments in your future with grandkiddies at some point, to soothe the old grief to some degree. you’d make a very nice granddad..
friday evening I got back from the watersports week in the Netherlands.
and wow, it was a great experience and adventure, the week was so much fun, and very sporty!
the only difficult moments were some group meals where so many people talked all at once I could not make out any line of conversation.
luckily as everybody started to get a bit more tired as days went by, the noise diminished, smiley.
we canoed a lot during the first days as there was no wind, but bright sunshine, and in the meantime we got to know each other.
both the participants with their various disabilities were inspiring, all people in difficult situations but with a very positive attitude in life, and the volunteer assistants were also so nice, tactful and real and gentle and funny in their approach.
the setting was great, we had half an island, one building with veranda, living and eating quarter, kitchen and bedrooms and bathrooms.
all acccessible and adapted for all kinds of disabilities.
it was moving how everyone helped everyone, people in wheelchairs showing me the way and where to take my sailing cloths, and me picking the jackets for them that were hanging too high.
I canoed in different kinds of canoes, on different water trails, open water and also narrow hidden little canals that were jungle like, where you could pick blackberries dangling over the water, and paddle between water lilies and kingfisher birds.
but it all got even much better when on Tuesday the wind started blowing, and three times a day I could try sailing in different types of boats.
all with as much learning and independence as possible, as they knew I wanted to learn as much as possible.
it was really great, and often spectacular, especially in the trimaran and catamaran with a lot of wind, they go very fast and you get very wet with the water splashing up, and it feels often like being on a half wild horse wanting to run as fast as possible, I loved it !!!
with the catamaran we had to wear surf clothes as to be prepared for a possible capsizing, falling over of the vessel with the speed and wind.
that did not happen this time, but we also did some attempt of water skiing on a surfboard, sitting down, but mostly with spectacular falls at high speed into the water when the speedboat did turn and I could not see it and of course kept going straight.
an interesting experience but I won’t do it again the next time as it is not worth getting injured that way.
but also so very nice was the interaction and communication between everyone, some referred to it as some kind of therapy, which I find very true
I did cry a few times , the first time when they organized a dinner on some large wooden rafts which were tied to two sailing boats on the sides, and all of us had dinner while going over the lake during the sunset.
at some point I started to feel very sad about the loss of some of the capacities to see, and hear it all, and the lack of freedom of movement and full enjoyment it caused.
but I felt fairly free to just let my tears roll at the dinner table.
at some other point one of my roommates, a girl of 30 years, in a wheelchair, started to feel very bad about having to be lifted in and out of bed and onto the toilet etc., and she had to cry. she did , and I and some assistants were there, and she said she really liked the way I talked to her, it made her feel at ease. I had stopped an old assistant of trying to talk her out of the feeling, and had told her she was entitled to feel sad,as of course it was painful, and she should not be ashamed of how she felt. not in these exact words, but it did help, and she was very good at allowing her feeling, and expressing it and also expressing she would be able to laugh again soon.
we became friends and exchanged e-mail addresses. she is a children’s coach, studied for it, to assist kids in difficult situations like with divorcing parents. I did not even know it existed but it seemed such a great profession, and she wants to start her independent office.
the other roommate was a German young woman also in a wheelchair, who works with refugees as a counselor, specially focusing on refugees with disabilities.
also became close with her.
got close to tears again every time I mentioned to people how that experience was so welcome in my life. that week of fun active watersports and of being surrounded with nice positive kind people, at a point in my life all seemed hopeless and only going downhill, made me feel there is still the possibility of finding ways ot have a great time.
other people expressed similar feelings and that was always moving, also for the assistants.
the age ranged from 19 years old to about 63.
several very attractive men as well, most of them married but some not, smiley.
got into a very long talk with one of the married ones, an assistant volunteer, which was ok as I accepted that fact that he was unavailable, and it allowed me then to talk freelly about myself and my hopes to find someone , hopes that got renewed a bit by being in this setting which seemed ideal to create possibilities to meet nice persons.
told him as well when he told me about his adventurous life, how I would love to meet a person like him.
it was both funny and warm, feelingwise, to go over with him to what I would like as qualities from my partner, sense of humour, kindness, interest in and enthusiasm for life etc.
he said, which felt very nice, he could see it happening for me.
i felt liked by a lot of people there, and liked most of them a lot as well.
will definitely go again, maybe already in October as there is a day of orientation especially for visually disabled people then, to find out about the possibilities. very cheap on that day, about 10 $ for the blind and 15 $ for an accompanying person.
I will try to contact people over here as to be able to go there again for that day with a group of possible future participants.
so you hear it, I am so happy I did go, and so happy such a fabulous organisation exists, it already exists for 40 years, ‘Sailwise’.
am suntanned now, and with well muscled arms from the canoing, and a lot of worries blown away by the fresh breezes on the water.
sailing is such a lovely sport, water, wind, sun or rain, but no noise, no stress, just working together as a team and enjoying it.
especially sailing with the trimaran with 4 to 5 Beaufort wind was very spectacular, and very wet, smiley. hope to do more sailing with more wind still!
got a great boost out of it!
Margaret, That sounds like you had a great time, I’m very glad about that. A good way to meet people too it seems.
Margaret, That sounds like you had a great time, I’m very glad about that. A good way to meet people too it seems.
Wow, Margaret, what a wonderful time. Sounds like it was nice to meet others who counsel and help people. You seem to have the knack too the way you helped your roommate deal with her bad feelings. And too, a nice guy to chat with. Thank you for sharing; I had a good time reading and picturing your water sports.
Sounds like you had a rich, meaningful adventure Margaret. Sounds like it was life changing. I’m glad for you that you had it.
Margaret, what a great healthy adventure you found, on several levels…reserve another immediately!!
Margaret: Great to read about your sailing trip. There seems to be some good times for you.
Take care and will write more when connect to the planet in our little chalet. All this is being done in a library, miles away from our new home.
in the comments on the north Korean test with probably an H-bomb, there was information given about the destructive impact of such a device.
in a circle with a diameter of about ten kilometers, say almost 7 miles, everything is destroyed.
a diameter of 17 kilometer everyone, or at least 90 percent of the people is killed by the radiation. up to 100 kilometers far, people have third degree burns.
up to 900 kilometers far all windows go to pieces.
that is inconceivable, hopefully it never ever happens…
It is such an environmental insult to be testing nuclear devices. I hope that some way can be found to stop North Korea. Probably only possible if China will take stronger action. We are at risk with Trump as president; hopefully he’ll listen to his advisers.
Loved reading all about your exciting adventures Margaret! Sounds like a great organization that will only benefit and love having you there with them.
Being genuine shines through no matter what.
Thank you everyone for your responses regarding my revelation about my cancer. Wow, I hate even just saying that word in relation to myself. I’m glad I decided to share it here. The alternative was to wall myself off from you and this blog, and I realized I couldn’t do that, I didn’t want to lose you. But writing about it here to you has made the predicament of my diagnosis more real to me, less easy to dismiss, and subjected me to pretty unpleasant feelings over this weekend.
My country is wrestling with reconciliation with the indigenous people of this land, whose cultures and lives were destroyed by colonization by European settlers who took their land and homes from them. True reconciliation would require a profound change in consciousness by the powerful, dominant white culture, a painful awakening to the destruction that my culture and my settler ancestors have done. I’ve been engrossed and more and more distressed in reading and thinking about it. It’s become more difficult for me to ignore how Canada’s success as a nation came about by the destruction of their lives and their ruin has carried through generations. Today I could not escape tormenting feelings. I cried feeling how they were trapped by forces that broke them, and I cried how I felt trapped by cancer that could destroy me, but worst and most profound of all, I cried horrible truth that I was trapped me, that broke my life, that I was never going to know a parent’s love for their child, that delivered me a hurt that encased my life in harrowing empty loneliness that I would never escape from had it not been for this therapy.
To be a primal therapist seems to me to be a fine balancing act, because unless it is done in an extremely sensitive, kind and caring manner, to lead a patient toward seeing the horrible truth of their life can seem to be a very cruel act, as it occurred to me this afternoon when I was in the throes of seeing and crying deep horrible empty truth that decades of therapy has lead me to but neither therapy nor therapists can’t do anything about. Yet I’m grateful for the process, because in finally accepting and facing the horror comes strength.
Larry, sorry you’re having to go through this prostate issue & scare. But I would be optimistic also, considering the several others we know who have gone through it similarly, and are doing fine, even though I know it was trying for them too, at the time. Too bad your friend feels a need to “be stoic” — boy, I wouldn’t want to have THAT load!
Yes. He is concerned for me, because he as a wife to support him while I live alone, but no way would I want to be in his stoic shoes.
On that note, I wish to share the feeling I was immersed in today. I need to tidy up my little computer room. Piles of books on the floor need to go in the bookcase. But the bookcase is full, so this morning I sorted through it, discarding books that I haven’t looked at in decades and that don’t mean anything to me anymore. Then I came upon the “Kingdom of the Ice Bear”, a book based on the BBC nature documentary film of the same name. My wife and I loved watching that documentary when it first appeared on TV in the early 1990s. She gave me the book as a Christmas present, way back then. It’s been on my bookshelf all this time, forgotten. This morning as I held the book in my hands, I felt I had unlocked the 4th dimension, time, and she was back there in the 90s giving the book to me now. I cried wanting her to know how much I appreciated that gift from her. Back then I couldn’t let myself feel how much the gift meant to me, because living in the same city where I grew up and where my parents lived, with her in my life now triggered more hurt than I was able to feel then, about all that had been missing in my life before her. This morning I cried wanting to let her know how much she meant to me, how much I loved her. In the depth of the crying, I felt that she and I were still connected through time, and I cried how much she meant to my life and how little there had been in my life before her.
I’m surprised how much more and deeper the grief is. It is as if I had so much pain in my childhood that my chest, abdominal and back muscles were recruited to keep a finely controlled, iron clad grip on it to enable me to function. When I primal, it is as if the grip is relaxed only a minute amount, to access only a squirt of the pain, only as much as I can manage and stay sane. I can feel the grip loosening more and more over time, and the feelings go deeper and more and more I can face the truth.
thanks all for the nice replies.
I feel how being back home on my own affects my energy level. there I was very active all the time, stimulated by the company and activities.
I did send out various mails to contact people for the 6th of October orientation day at the island, and asked for the promised digital flyers but nothing so far, guess I am too eager, smiley.
it is reassuring though my brother told me he would go with me if I had no one else for the drive.
suitcase almost empty, washing all done, now up to household chores and washing sheets etc.
soon I should pick up the study again, but not right now, one of the coming days when not too much else is on my mind.
still dreaming of paddles and water, in almost every dream, smiley.
it was funny, it happened to me for the first time, how there every day when I was back on the steady shore, I kept feeling as if it moved , also sitting down, felt like things still kept moving a bit sideways and up and down.
probably have been so much on the water my system tried to incorporate that situation as a constant state of being….
had heard of it, but always thought it was exaggerated and only a half a minute thing after coming ashore, but no no, large part of the day I kept feeling like still being on some small vessel on the waves.
many others knew the feeling there.
I htink it is more present when sailing or canoeing on small vessels, as the last time I went on a week’s sailing trip on a larger ship, an entire week all the time on the water, I had none of that effect afterwards.
not really unpleasant, but a bit strange when on the toilet you feel as if it is moving…
I still remember that sensation well from body surfing at Queensland Beach in Nova Scotia (Canada’s east coast) and re-living it all night long – and I was only 11 or so at the time.
Having your ‘sea-legs’ and then back to your ‘land legs’ are apt expressions aren’t they.
So glad you can enjoy the afterglow of your lovely vacation Margaret.
get well Larry.
Just for fun!
(Its Paul Simon and Chevy Chase’s video of Paul’s old song “Call Me Al” Margaret)
body surfing, i always wondered how that goes. is that entirely without a board trying to catch a big wave?
a sad but also very good description of your feeling process.
good you start to feel more and more body relaxation..
Yes Margaret – swimming out from shore and then catching a wave to glide all the way back in on.
Both exhilarating & exhausting!!
A well secured bathing suit being the only requirement 🙂
Just a test …. Jack
Hi Everyone: Having a hard time here logging on. I’ve been out of contact for the last several days. Before I read all the responses that have been posted, since the last time I had wi-fi I will post this then look at them all. I’m at a library doing this now. We moved from our temporary stay in an apartment where we did have wi-fi. Now we are living in the chalet that for the first two days was without one piece of furniture which included a bed, so we had to sleep on the floor for a couple of days. Meantime, we got our beds on Sunday, a two seater couch, a table and two chairs.
We are waiting to get connected with wi-fi and TV, but the people doing all that cannot install it until the 18th of this month (September) Only Godo knows why. There are so many things we need to get before things will become ‘sort of’ normal.
Jimbo is getting all stressed-out and frustrated about it, whereas for me I am so happy with the place and the garden and huge trees all around and we cannot see even our next door neightbour. It’s so lovely and I love everything about it. It’s in a veritable forest.
There are some very irritating factors; mainly all the bureaucracy and everything seemingly needs that I have to get something else in order to get what I am asking for. Especially with residency. I gave them my birth certificate and passport to copy and put in their files BUT (oh no!!), the birth certificate needs a stamp from some bureacracy in England before they can accept my birth certificate. It’s all a “There’s a hole in my bucket, dear Lisa” syndrome. It all goes ’round and round’ in circles.
Things would be easier if we were connected to the rest of the planet with wi-fi. But WTF. I sure know we did the right thing. Jim is not so sure, but I know he will come round when it’s all fixed. I would not manage well if he was not here with me, since he’s doing most of the ‘heavy lifting’ and all manuels are written in the language that is “Double Dutch’ to me.
I am very proud of myself, that I was able to make this ‘huge’ move at my age. My only guess is that I got enough therapy to get through it in relative ease. Poor Jimbo, never did do the therapy.
You still sound the same Jack. That’s a good sign. 🙂
Larry: thanks, if that was meant as a compliment, which is the way I took it.
I’m not sure what “growing old gracefully” is all about … I just wish some of the things would not deteriorate at the speed they do:- baldness, deafness, toothless, clogged arteries in the legs, BUT I love my new home and it’s getting better by the day Silly as it may sound we now have door mats.
Tonight: we should have a TV (but not view-able until the 18th, shredder, printer and last, but now least for Jimbo a smoothing iron. Yippee!!!!,
I’m feeling quite well and excited about the prospects and feeling that I can make this place “Home; sweet home”
Still all this from the library, miles away from home.
Tammy and Todd miracle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMykQDJ90kI here is a little video about a fox that got saved by kind people, who DO exist in the world, contrary to what we see in our president and his group of misfits (maybe his generals are ok though). anyway, i could barely sleep all night thinking about a group of years 1989 through 2005, when my wife and i made so many horrific mistakes in our lives, that our children have to have been devastated by all the stupid decisions and actions we made. it would be impossible for me to write those idiocies down here, because most people would throw up when they read the details. suffice it to say, that i will never be happy, knowing the terrible damage i did to our kids and to the pets we had and to each other, man and wife. people would agree that i should be taken out and shot, if they knew this stuff. I will never recover; never see happiness again in what little is left of my life, hopefully our kids will remain on a good path that they are on now.
It seems healthy for you to be able to recognize those aspects of your life Otto, but from what I’ve read here, childhood you wasn’t given much chance to pursue a happy path to living..
wow, sounds both scary and exciting, if it works that is.
if you get hit by the breaking wave it must be not so much fun, I have felt i could have drown a few times just by being beaten of my feet by big breaking waves, and rolling over the sand on the botom to when finally come up to the surface being hit by the next wave and going deep under again.
luckily the first time it happened I got washed onto the beach, indeed with my bikini half where it was not supposed to be. the second time it happened was on the beach of Santa Barbara and S. fished me up from the water immmediately and gained a lifelong credit with me. holding hands with someone steady is fun to be in the breaking waves with, but I would never see myself swimming into these huge ones, as I panic and occasionallly have had nightmares about drowning as well, several big ones come to think of it…
it is a nice thought to picture you doing it though, smiley
Larry – so ‘ethnic cleansing’ and ‘genocide’ are not just safely in the past somewhere. Where we can uselessly ‘cry’ about all the stuff we have done to the Native Americans. And we have there is no denying that. But it would be nice if people would bring it up to the present day and the blatant and naked ‘genocide’ and ‘ethnic cleansing’ that is being done right now today and everyday by the Jewish entity called Israel. But oh no let’s fixate on mythical things like ‘white supremacism’ I don’t believe there is even such a thing but there is no doubt that “Jewish supremacism” exists and is in our face constantly. so much in our face that nobody hardly notices anymore……………..it’s just the way things are and if you complain you are just a ‘racist’
Larry, was thinking about you. There is a movie on Amazon you might be interested in. It’s a 2008 documentary about 3 men in the U.K. and their choices for treating their prostate cancer. It emphasizes how so many people turn to the internet to research their diseases and to reach out for support. It’s called: “I can’t Believe I’m Telling You This.”
You are no doubt inundated with info at this point but thought you might like to view this movie sometime, nevertheless. ($2.99 to rent or free on prime.)
Thank you Sylvia. Your thoughtfulness and consideration makes me feel less alone with this cancer problem. I will check out that movie. It will be an interesting pursuit even if only for the fact I’ve never before rented a movie on Amazon.
Larry, reply to above. i understand that i was not given a good childhood that would have made me a good parent. my point is that i am haunted (endlessly and relentlessly and unforgettably) by those years, of all the pain for me, my family, my pets, and how it should have not happened that way. it was like i was just swept up in it, like a bad accident over the course of decades. it has invaded all my cells and i feel too guilty to allow myself to move on. anyway, i will be moving on soon enough. thanks for your comments.
anyway, get fucking well, would you please???!!!
so nice to hear you like your new home so much.
how do you get about, by public transport?
I think where i went sailing was the same province as where you are, just south of Amsterdam and north of Utrecht. we were very near to Hilversum.
the administration is probably the worst hurdle to take, to get all settled concerning residence and social and medical insurance, bit by bit will be the only way I guess.
good you have Jim by your side.
how do you like the ‘natives’ so far?
of course there are all kinds, but usually they are kind of open and friendly.
Margaret: Yep, yep and yep!!!!! I love it more, the longer I am here.
There are some reservations I have about being here in The Netherlands.
the major one being the burocracy. It’s a “There’s a hole in my bucket, dear Lisa” syndrome. It seems like one never really gets to the core of it. Not that I like the lack of it in the US, for that too had it’s problems. The other thing being the language … AND trying to figure out N. S. E. & W. I always thought I had a good sence of direction, but here I can’t figure any of this out. Hopefully it will all resolve itself over time.
The good things are Public Transport that makes the US look like a third world country. Go to almost any bus stop, and there is a sign telling you how many minutes for the next bus to arrive. Then on the bus there is a sign letting you know the up-coming stops and a button to press to let the driver know you intend to got off at the next stop.
Cafes galore: Do all the Dutch people eat out? … seems like it.
Yep!!! with Jim I’d be totally lost. What with going deaf and not understanding the acent even when they do speak English.
However, it’s all slowly comming together. Just this morning bought a desk and low long table for the TV which means Jim can put his indoor plants at either sideof the TV or his little dinky ornaments. The Dutch do have a knack at making things ‘cosy’
Won’t have wi-fi until (theoretically) 18th September. So again at the Library. Will probably have to make, at least a couple more more visits here to spam at least of 100 emails I get each day. Din’t know that many people had my email address.
Margaret: I never did answer this comment of yours, but saved it with the intent to answer.
So!!! here goes::- Yes, we are getting about with public transport, but Jim has bought a bicycle, (electric) and I intend to buy a tricycle, also electric ; rather than go for a scoot-mobile. BUT the public transport here is excellent, on time and postings on illuminated signs, when the next bus is due. The only snags being getting to the bus stop; often a longish, with my “clogged arteries” OR a long walk after getting off the bus.
Thank godo that Jim is fluent in Dutch, German and English.
As for the natives, mmmmmmm!!!!! that’s a difficult one as I don’t see any with feather on their heads, nor with machetes. Most shop assistants are very polite and excellent with English. I love our immediate neighbor in # 24. She welcomed us with a lovely coffee tray and biscuits, and a vase of flowers. She’s so sweet and a granny to a very cute little boy. Most other I just wave or say “dag” the second word I learned after “Dankuwel” (hope I spelled that right.
I seem never to falter in my love of the chalet and garden. Jim’s doing that very Dutch thing of making it very COZY.
Now!!!! if only I could get the hang of my Android cell phone and transfer pics from it to my lap-top, I’d send you pictures of the place. I feel that technology-wise I’m losing it. Take care Margaret
Jack, you could email the pics to yourself, then open them on you lap top.
Larry: Yep … if only I knew how to do that on my celly
I must going back into my early childhood, literally … wasn’t the old saying “second childhood”?
I noticed you are still on page 3 of Shane Roberts letter to Barry. Any reason?
Because I was responding on page 3 to your comment on page 3 Jack.
yesterday I called my mom’s physician, for an update.
she told me mom is doing fine, with every now and then a brief antibiotics treatment for her chronic ear infection, and she talked also about how well she adjusted to where she lives now.
her medication has been diminished, and she is doing fine.
but today I got a call from the head nurse mom was having some balance problems, she told me she had called the doctor, who examined her and will do another treatment for mo’s ear. she will also follow up closely, blood pressure etc. and if necessary start balance exercises with a physiotherapist, or send her to a specialist for nose ear and throat diseases.
tried to call mom but she was not in her room all day. it is reassuring the head nurse said she would work all weekend and make sure mom was well supported, literally, as of course she would not remember to stay seated or in bed. I told her mom can be surprisingly flexible in recovering , having balance trouble at some point and later on the same day being fine.
I just called her and she sounded ok, and clear.
but it still remains a bit frightening, a confrontation with the knowledge she won’t live forever…
I love her so much and still feel a need for her, simply to hear her and to be around her regularly, volatile but precious moments.
I am so glad she is so cheerful and optimistic and nice, it must be awful to have a parent that turns grumpy or scared or does not recognize you anymore.
I will miss her terribly, hope she stays around for many more years in the health she has now.
all the caretakers there now know how to treat her now, with gentleness and a sense of humor, and then she is very cooperative.
when people try to force her she digs her heels in the ground, haha, I like that actually.
she has conquered everyone there as far as I can tell.
she keeps asking me about a boyfriend, and I told her I’d come introduce him right away if ever, which made her laugh.
she is adorable these days, caring and funny.
p.s. I discovered another sailing organisation here in Antwerp I might spend some time with on the water soon!
bitter as usual. watching snippets of isle of wight festival 2016 on mtv. in between trying to figure out my wife’s dental bills. i feel old. i am old. how much fun they seem to be having. young people dancing and singing the words as the bands play, bands i know nothing of and cant relate to. just had to say it, so fucking sorry. jeez.
just gave my mom a call. she was resting and still had slight balance problems.
she said something about just having been laying on a bed on another floor earlier in the morning, but that might have been a dream, or maybe they made her lay down somewhere momentarily no ideal…
but she was ever so sweet, reassuring me, asking about me, and while we were saying goodbye she unexpectedly said ‘you know I love you don’t you?’, in a very heartfelt way, which really touched me. I replied, yes, sure, thanks, and I love you too, very much, so take good care of yourself so I can enjoy you for many more years..
she chuckled and replied she would try to do so..
moments like that are both precious and painful…
otherwise I am frustrated as I expect several mails and nothing seems to come, and the blog is either silent or something is really wrong with my mail.
expecting news from both sailing sites, the Dutch one and the local Antwerp one, and from several other sources as well, and they all take so much time to respond, it triggers me a bit..
only slightly, but still…
only alternative is start doing my chores, and studying, have postponed it long enough now…
I have a sailing appointment on september 24 here in Antwerp for a whole day of assisted sailing, for free the first time!
it is only across the river, very nearby, no long commuting, a smaller kind of water patch than the ones in the Netherlands but you don’t hear me complaining!
this time with Sailability, not with the Dutch Sailwise.
am so happy to have this extra option, hope it turns out well, no reason why it should’t , of course it is a bit scary the first time, but so was the sailing week and that was fantastic.
glad it finally got settled, over the phone, mail will follow.
sigh of relief and excitement.
love this extra adventure in my life, just what I needed!
Margaret, that’s terrific for you…look forward to reading about it!
It is terrific to have options in life to grow into. Congratulations Margaret.
Wonderful news Margaret! Sounds like such a great way to enjoy that freedom and connection with nature and people!
thanks Leslie, smiley.
I heard they don’t provide sailing clothes, so I will go and buy some, not the expensive stuff, but something that keeps me fairly dry and warm. as it is so nearby, I expect to go there more than just this one time.
and in the Netherlands I discovered how pleasant and comfortable these clothes are on a cold windy day, even if it is for eating outdooors on a chilly barbecue , smiley.
as I am skinny, I can use a good protection layer!
how are you doing these days?
I’m ok thanks Margaret – my main concern is my alone status, not having a close friend, but I’m socialising with tennis 4 times a week, so I have fun, and am subscribing to a dating site. I’ve enjoyed weekly visits to amazing gardens this summer, organised by my painting group, so that’s been a joy, as I am interested in botany. I have only a small patio so I’ve had a regular garden ‘fix’!
Feeling the pain and joy, ups and downs, doing ok.
i am going to put my hopeless misery on page 1 so i can be alone and deprived, as i was then, and as it feels like i am now.
Otto, I was thinking the other day about guilt as you had brought it up with pets and family. And I was wondering what makes the difference between us and others who aren’t bothered by guilt but who also do things inadvertently to others. Like Donald Rumsfeld when he sent young men to Iraq without proper protected vehicles and they came back, or didn’t, with severe injuries. And his answer was you go to war with what you have. He admitted somewhat to the errors of preparedness. He seems happy and enjoying life now. How do people live with themselves…What makes them impervious to guilt and we have misery with it…just wondered. Better defenses, I guess.
I saw you hiding on page one. Hope you feel better, eventually. Sorry for the downer topic.
Hi all: At the library again I had a very big feeling last night in bed and thought I was going to scream and then throw up. It did go away, but was a bit of terror.
Meantime:- Well! it’s been a long week and there’s still a million things we have to do. BUT we’re getting there, bit by bit. The problem buying big things like furniture, requires that we get it delivered and that usually takes about a week. So it like we have it, but we don’t posses it … if you know what I mean. Yet for all that we’ve acomplished a lot there seems even more to do each day, and it all means catching a bus (very frequent and very efficient and very comfortable), but then one has to walk for what seems miles to get to the place we want. Finding the right shop for what we need can also be a little trying
The weather is very changable from one minute to the next. It stars with cloudy skies and then it all clears up and we have clear blue skies and sunshine, though not as hot as it was two weeks ago when we arrived. We’ve also had quite a bit of rain and it means we need to take an umberella wherever we go. And when it rain it purs down.
I love the chalet to death and it is so well laid out though with a little less space than we had in the trailer. We do intend to build a second bedroom where the shed now exists. Jim will not doubt use that one and I will use the normal one attached. the garden area is quite large compared to anything we’ve had before and Jim will have a ball tending it. The whole of our space is surrounded by trees and bushes and it hard to even see the next door neighbours house. The whole park structure is also very delightful and we are really on the very edg of the village (quite a large one as villages go). Plenty of farms around.
I think I am getting aclimatised to it all, but since we’ve only been in the chalet for 9 days it’s hard to tell. Jim seems to get more upset than I do when things arn’t going as well as he would like, but I am more able to take things as they come along and cope with it.
thanks Larry. how are you doing, health and otherwise?
Well Margaret, my life carries on in a primally normal fashion. Sometimes cancer scares me, in addition mounting evidence of human-induced climate change (warming trends, heat waves, drought, floods, hurricanes) scares me, plus the big shock of my wife’s life being taken reverberates on, altogether on some days make me feel powerless alone and vulnerable, against indifferent powerful forces that could ruin me (or anyone). I let myself cry into it and realize the theme of being small, vulnerable and alone has run throughout my life, and I AM alone and vulnerable and life destroying forces are real. I cry deeper than I’ve ever dared need for my parents, and consciously awaken to an emotional space I’ve never experienced before, a sense of the greatest healing, strengthening force there is, that propels life even in the face of calamity. and it is love, our first experience of it being love between parent and child, something that my life is devoid of. Somehow the awakening to and feeling a sense of the life empowering and centering that parental love imbues to a child, which I never received, shifts my mental state into a more grounded place, and helps me to understand and accept that yes there are horrible things in life we can’t do anything about, but loving and being loved can make life worth living, more than anything else can.
Retirement is turning out to be an interesting challenge. I like that my time is controlled by me, not by supervisors at work. Away from the workplace, I have to reach out, try new experiences and meet new people, propelled only by my needs and my interests. The summer has gone by exceedingly fast. I’m getting more confident, spending more time with people and meeting new people through my interests in photography and nature. I look forward to opportunities and growth that lie ahead in my retirement.
But I dread upcoming treatment for cancer, that will undoubtedly leave me physically diminished from who I am now. I’m not looking forward to the months long recovery from treatment, and likely side effects I will have to live with. I try not to think about it too much so that I can enjoy life until then. I’m hoping that before then I wake up and don’t have cancer. I don’t want their treatment if there is a way to avoid it and be cancer free.
this is not a feeling-inducing clip for me. i just like dogs, and therefore, wolves. although i have been bitten a few times when my dogs got in fights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEtjgDAAYCQ&t=1059 WOLF PARK ATTACK – Woman fights off wolf that bites man
i listened to a few songs by beatles on the car radio, that could have resulted in some healing crying, but i was exhausted and it was really not going to happen while driving, but at least i haven’t turned into a total unfeeling person. i dont think i listened to early beatles music as it was coming out, maybe i only got into them when sgt peppers came out. i feel bad about that for some reason. one of the songs i heard on the radio was “i’m happy just to dance with you’. seemed funny, the chorus seemed to sound like they were having an orgasm (OH OH OHHHHHH!), i don’t know if that is what other people think or not about that song or not (maybe it is a well-known fact), or whether what george or whoever was singing, was really saying (in code) was, i’m happy just to f* you”, i know there was another song they did, that had the same feel to me. i don’t know if they were intentionally doing that (sounding like an orgasm and cloaking the words), but i can imagine them sitting around joking while they were writing this song. or maybe they were just young normal men with strong sex drives and it just naturally bled through in their music, unconsciously. or maybe it is just me, who thinks about sex too much.
ladies, you DO know that men will say just about anything to get you into bed? “i don’t need to touch or hold your hand, i just want to dance with you all night” HA! RIGHT! if dance means f*
larry you getting radiation, chemo, biopsy, or what? i doubt that accupunture would help, but it might relieve stress and pain. pot is supposed to be good for nausea of chemo. and there are usually cancer support groups. i wish you had someone (physically with you) to help you go through any treatments. it should be ok though, you seem to be a strong person. i will probably get cancer, and the only stage that i am going to have is extreme rage. i won’t have trouble believing it is true, since my luck has always tended to be “waiting for the next shoe to drop; here it comes, here it comes, it’s just your 19th nervous breakdown”
I’m gathering information and in a couple of weeks and then will decide on treatment. I hope you never get cancer Otto.
What treatment choices has your doctor given you?
Phil, given the stage of the cancer, the recommended treatment options are surgery or radiation.
i wont say anything more. dont want to upset trump when he is busy trying to woo the democrats into building his wall in florida.
sylvia, war and death and dying is not a downer for me. the part that i think everyone does not know about war, is that when you are charging towards the enemy, it is a given that one of you is going to get hit. cannon fodder. anyway, since i opened myself up with pt, maybe that is why guilt plagues me so. “once they have been to gay paree”, or whatever that line is. dutch boy’s finger is no longer big enough to hold back the dyke, once the water started breaking through. blah blabber what???.. anyway, i know what you are saying, i think about it all the time, when i see people who have either been terrible to others, or have been entirely crushed by life, and yet they seem happy. maybe it is a.a. people i am thinking of, i can’t remember who it was although it was very recent that i was having that same thought. sorry could not control myself. not saying any thoughts to anyone, well maybe to my friend at work, but just complaining about the boss. i see the ladies and sometimes men walking around the lake in the park and i catch bits of their conversations. they are having their therapy for free. talk therapy. apparently it works, ask pt people. yes it does. although we take that talk to a different level sometimes. AHHHHHHHYH WAHHHH. you know what i mean.
Otto, I think you are right about once you do primal therapy, formally or otherwise you are opened up to past flaws, faults or hurts done to others. Dutch boy’s finger can’t hold back the flood.
There was a therapist from the Institute way back in I think it was 1972 that was on a nighttime radio program from L.A. He was explaining to the DJ what Primal therapy was about. I remember liking the announcer as he explained how he was trying to be a good parent and that when his 3 yr. old daughter was afraid to go to sleep at the grandparent’s house he sat with her until she fell asleep.
But when it was the first day of pre-school she was very upset and crying, and he was anguished, but left her there knowing she would settle down and play with the others. The Primal therapist responded to the DJ: that if you had gotten down to what it felt like to be 3 years old and scared, you couldn’t do what you did and leave her.
I know in the past I have helped to calm my little nieces fears out of knowing what is good for them, but it isn’t until this last year or so because of feeling that I know exactly how a 3 year old feels.
Unfortunately, many people are forced to send their young kids to daycare or preschool for economic reasons, but for some others maybe it’s a life style choice to have two parents working. Of course there’s also a lot of single parents. We were lucky we hardly had to do that. Only a little for my younger son and that was my fault because I changed jobs and messed things up.
People are fooled into thinking daycare is OK for the kids, since just about everyone is doing that.
This week I’ve been doing a lot of exercise at the gym and at home and tonight I’m noticing how much it helps me to feel better. It t burns off some energy and also weakens my chronic muscle tensions which, afterwards when I laid down, allowed me to release some physical blockages, which I think are birth related. Whatever it is, it felt relieving.
Otherwise things are still messed up here. I shouldn’t let so many days go by without trying to have a discussion with my wife about what’s bothering me. But I have been so upset that I haven’t felt like doing that. It feels hopeless. She already knows the cause, but it seems clear we can’t get any improvement without talking about it because, at least for me, it was a major incident. Maybe this weekend it can happen. A “normal” couple probably doesn’t have these problems or behave this way, I’ve often felt that I’m in some alternate world of relationships which makes it hard to describe what it’s like and what I go through to make it understandable. At least I have some understanding of what triggers me and why, and get to some of the old feelings, but more is doing to be needed to fix this situation.
Phil, at least you are trying to communicate with your wife. I think a big percentage of relationships might not be ‘normal’. They just agree to not communicate about their problems with each other. Though that doesn’t sound like a very satisfying solution.
Good luck with your endeavor to work things out.
In regards to daycare; think nowadays with the economy both parents have to work. And daycare or pre-school is necessary. But I think the first couple of days the parent should be able to sit in until the child can feel safe in the new environment. Maybe they do that now. Kids are such delicate little souls.
I don’t want to throw this conversation completely off track, yet Phil’s comments suddenly made me realize why Trump has given his daughter Ivanka a White House office and let her visit all sorts of foreign leaders and dignitaries. Most political experts and professional diplomats complain how unqualified she is and how it’s nepotism (and I agree).
The root of Trump doing this likely from the sheer ego gratification from one of his fondest memories during his 1980’s & 90’s business days: His being able to bring his child daughter to work any day & everyday with impunity while hundreds of employees could not do the same and they had to leave their own children in daycare. I could see where this privilege is an ultimate “in-your-face” status symbol all its own and a strong continuing & emotionally-charged sign of being better than his subordinates.
He likely wanted to recreate that same feeling of superiority in the White House by “bringing his daughter to work” in the adult sense.
Just a theory.
All of this would have been moot if he had been killed at 30 and his entire life converted to a 130-word article almost no one would bother to see. Then everybody would be saying, “Donald who?”
Guru – I think that is an excellent ‘insight’ I mean the bit about bringing his daughter to work. Your quirky insights make a nice change from ‘business as usual’
I neglected to mention Sylvia helped this along by mentioning the economic necessity of daycare, as well.
/Seems the ‘powers that be’ don’t like that one. (why?), Here’s another maybe more ‘acceptable’ one but continuing on the same theme (Gretchen’s education)